Good afternoon. I wish to inform the House that I have received the following message from His Honour, the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories: "Please be advised that I wish to recommend to the 12th Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories the passage of the following bill: Bill 9, An Act to Amend the Insurance Act. Yours truly, D.L. Norris, Commissioner."

I would like to take this opportunity to recognize visitors from the Province of Alberta, who are seated in the Speaker's Gallery. First, a friend who has visited us on many occasions, the Hon. Dr. David Carter, Member for Egmont.

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He is accompanied to Yellowknife by his wife, Mrs. Jean Carter, who is not here in the House today. Also with the Speaker are four interns from the Alberta Legislative Assembly's internship program. They are: Laurie McKay, Jason Foster, Mark Patton, and Greg Moffat.

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Welcome to our Legislative Assembly. Orders of the day for Tuesday, February 18, 1992. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Ministers' statements. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are different styles of houses now being constructed in the Northwest Territories, but the people in the communities are not given the opportunity to choose the kind of house that they would like to occupy. Some of the elderly people occupy two-storey houses with bedrooms upstairs and furnaces and storage areas on the lower level. I am especially concerned about the elderly who occupy those types of houses. If there was a house fire in a lower level they would be trapped upstairs, and the houses are not supplied with folding ladders which they should have in case of an emergency. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Members' statements. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, since I was elected to serve in this House just four short months ago, many important issues have been raised; issues such as the need to maximize northern and local benefits in construction projects, the escalating costs of health and social services, and the possible creation of Nunavut. One issue that has not

been raised, but which troubles me greatly, is the state of education and the system in the Northwest Territories.

I have been looking at the statistics on enrolment, attendance and graduation rates provided in the Department of Education's annual report and frankly, I find them frightening. I will quote some of the statistics that particularly frighten me. In 1980-81, 213 students graduated from grade 12 in the Northwest Territories. Ten years later this number had dropped to 162. In the intervening years we have surpassed our 1980-81 graduation totals only once. In my own region, with a population of 5500 people, there were only five high school graduates in 1989-90.

The Department of Education has told us that the education system is improving because we are seeing a steady rise in school enrolment each year. Enrolment is an important measure of the performance of our education system, but of what use is it to us if we are merely producing more drop-outs instead of graduates? It has always been my belief that our education system should focus on producing graduates who can go on to further training in vocational and practical programs, yet the number of students graduating from our system with general diplomas is decreasing while the number of graduates with advanced diplomas is increasing only slightly. It seems to me that something has gone wrong.

Mr. Speaker, the performance of our education system has an impact on most other issues we deal with in this House. I have spoken about the need to implement policies like "buy North" and "tender North" that maximize the benefits to Northerners, local workers and companies; however, we are simply paying lip service to these policies if we cannot train our people to take advantage of them.

For years I have listened to people tell us about the social problems in our society. We have heard in this House frequently...

Mr. Todd, your time has expired.

Could I have unanimous consent to continue, Mr. Speaker?

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There being no nays proceed, Mr. Todd.

For years I have listened to people tell us about the social problems in our society. We hear it in the House all the time --alcoholism, suicide, family violence. To me, these problems stem from a sense of hopelessness that is borne out from a lack of opportunity to advance forward. Education is the key that will open the door to opportunity. Without it the North will be forever saddled with the high costs of social programs and communities afflicted with despair.

Mr. Speaker, I do not have the answers to the problems I have raised today, but I do know there has to be a comprehensive long-term plan to solve these problems, and frankly, to date I have not seen it. You can be assured in this House that I will be asking the Minister of Education what his department's plan is to improve the education system in the NWT, especially the number of students graduating from our educational program. Thank you.

--Applause

Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (Translation) When we met here last before Christmas, I was then a newly elected member. At the time, I told the Government Leader that I wanted to work with the Government Ministers. The Government Leader told me if I wanted to, I was welcome to work with her and the Ministers. I was thankful for her response. Since Christmas and up to the present time, three Ministers have joined me in visiting my constituency. I want to thank these three Ministers.

On January 17, 18 and 19, one of the Ministers, John Ningark, visited Fort Laird, Nahanni Butte and Fort Simpson. I want to thank him for this visit. The Minister comes from the extreme Arctic, the land where there are no trees. He comes from Pelly Bay. Fort Laird is a land with huge trees, and he was able to see these trees. As well, he mentioned that he had never seen a moose. As we flew around, we must have seen over one hundred moose. I want to thank him for having been to my constituency with me.

Donny Morin, Minister of Housing and Public Works, visited my constituency on January 22, 23 and 24. Housing was discussed in Fort Simpson. We travelled to Jean Marie River and Wrigley. People were able to discuss housing and public works issues, and I want to thank him for the visit.

Tony Whitford, Minister of Health and Social Services, was in Fort Simpson on January 8th. Issues concerning health and hospital were discussed. I would like to thank him for giving us that opportunity.

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Members' statements. Returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin.

Mr. Speaker, I have a return to a question asked by Mr. Nerysoo on Monday, February 17, 1992, with regard to an analysis of the potential impact of the restructuring of the NWT Housing Corporation which has taken place. Restructuring would entail the present corporation adopting a departmental structure and the elimination of the present board of directors. Our analysis indicates that the restructuring would allow for significant savings to be made in the administration of the board as well as ensuring that the housing policies and housing programs are closely co-ordinated with this government's economic, social, health and education policies.

An important element of this analysis was reviewing the structures and changes which are taking place in the provinces. Several provinces have changed or are in the process of changing to a departmental structure. Provinces which have converted or are soon to be converted are Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Prince Edward Island and New Brunswick. Our analysis also indicates that it would likely be desirable to maintain some form of corporate structure, operating under the authority of a departmental structure, in order that existing agreements with Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation would be continued and to ensure continued access to all CMHC programs.

Restructuring of the corporation would have no major immediate impact upon employees of the corporation nor upon internal operations and programs. The social housing programs managed by the corporation are vital to many territorial residents, and the delivery of these programs would continue.

Restructuring would eventually require some changes to the NWT Housing Corporation Act as well as changes to administration and management policies, directives and procedures. These changes would be required to reflect the closer linkages to the government with regard to the departmental structure. Thank you.

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to Question O19-12(2), asked by Henry Zoe on February 13, 1992. As the Members are aware, this government implemented an expenditure management program for the 1991-92 fiscal year effective November 25, 1991 which applies to all departments and agencies.

Specifically, all capital projects for which a contract had not been entered into by November 29, 1991 were to be submitted to the Financial Management Board for review, to consider the possibility of cancellation or deferral.

I concurred with the recommendation to delay the facility at Lac la Martre to follow the new airport construction. A heliport is planned as part of the station, and this should be located at the airport. The current site that is proposed for the Lac la Martre base is in the middle of town. This is not a good site for the heliport. Other communities who have heliports in the middle of town are also requesting relocation of the offices. We expect this would happen in Lac la Martre and prefer not to have to move the facility once it is constructed.

The department advised the community of Lac la Martre in the fall of 1991 that the project was under review and there was a possibility of postponing construction of the station to coincide with the reconstruction of the airport.

The chairman of the Financial Management Board met with all deputy ministers on December 20, 1991 to identify potential reductions or deferrals. The actual decision to defer the Lac la Martre project was confirmed by the Financial Management Board on December 24, 1991. We have not formally advised the community of any decision pending the standing committee on finance review and the tabling of the proposed reductions.

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to Question O45-12(2), with regard to Southerners owning homes in both the South and the North, asked by Mr. Pudluk on Monday, February 17th.

The Housing Corporation approves clients for the home-ownership assistance program, HAP, who have proven that they are in need of assistance. In other words, Mr. Speaker, applicants must be living in a house that is inadequate or unsuitable to their needs and be unable to afford such a house within 30 per cent of their income.

The Housing Corporation has a residency policy which requires applicants to have lived in the Territories for five consecutive years prior to their application. In the case of applicants who currently own a house, whether it is located in the South or here in the North, the key is affordability.

The Housing Corporation will consider applications from people who have homes, because many families in the North live in their own homes but do not have proper facilities or are overcrowded. These families would not be able to afford an adequate and suitable home without government assistance.

Returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask a question to the Government Leader -- oh, I did not realize she was not in the House, but I believe she has a Deputy Government Leader -- did you get demoted?

Mrs. Marie-Jewell, the Government Leader is not here. Perhaps you would like to pose your question to a specific Minister or wait until the Government Leader comes back.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will ask my question to the Minister of Renewable Resources. In regard to the question to the Minister of Renewable Resources about testing procedures used in sampling dioxins and furans in fish as part of efforts to monitor water quality. I am sure that the Minister is aware that during the environmental assessment panel review of the ALPAC proposal way back in December, 1989, data which showed high levels of dioxins and furans in the liver of fish from the Wapiti River were with held by the Alberta Forestry Minister. Instead, the samples, at that time, were reanalyzed and only the contaminant levels in the fish fillets were reported to the panel. When they were criticized about this, Mr. Speaker, the Alberta Forestry and Environment Ministers claimed that they were only interested in testing the edible portions of the fish.

Mr. Speaker, I am sure that you are aware that the aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories have long considered the liver of the fish as a delicacy, and since the Minister indicated last week that there were some furans and dioxins in the burbot liver of the fish samples taken from Chitty Lake and Leland Lake, I would like to know: Will the Minister direct his department officials to conduct a review, which can be tabled in this House, of all sampling methods used in the various water quality monitoring programs undertaken by Alberta, the federal government and the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

The Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I agree with the Member, being a native person who lives, most of the time, by eating country foods. Mr. Speaker, yes, I will expect my department to get a report. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister if he would be willing to communicate with the Alberta Minister of Environment to request that all future test data showing dioxin and furan concentration in fish be reported in

their entirety and made available for public review in the future. Thank you.

Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We will be contacting our counterpart on this, yes.

Oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I made a Member's statement on Friday regarding the highway patrol in my constituency. One of the purposes of the highway patrol, created by the Department of Transportation, is to patrol on all-weather highways and winter roads for the purpose of enforcing the applicable acts and regulations, operating weigh scales at site locations, preparing for court appearances, and preparing enforcement statistical reports.

Mr. Speaker, there are eight highway patrols in my area, but I do not see any other patrol vehicles in any other constituencies. I would like to ask the Minister of Transportation, why is it that the highways within my constituency, for example, are the only areas where the highway patrols are? I have, Mr. Speaker, been travelling to two places, Yellowknife and Fort Simpson, and I have not had the opportunity to run into them so I would like to ask the Minister why it is only restricted to certain portions of the Northwest Territories.

Minister of Transportation, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The highway patrol is not restricted to this one particular area of the NWT highways. I would like to take the question as notice and get back to the Member with a detailed report of highway patrols.

The question is taken as notice. Oral questions. Mr. Pudluk.

Owning Homes In Both The South And The North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I indicated yesterday to the Minister of Housing that on Monday, December 16, 1991, the question I asked was a written question. Could the Minister take a little time and give me a written reply?

Mr. Morin, Minister of Housing.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. He will have it today.

Oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the honourable Member has made a very good case for reviewing that matter, and I will be very pleased to do so. In answer to his question, I will ask the WCB to look into this matter and see whether we could have a timetable that better suits the realities of that particular industry. So the answer is yes.

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Housing. Yesterday the Minister of Housing indicated to this House that one of the first things he would like to do is to get rid of the Housing Corporation Board of Directors. He feels it would save a lot of money. I would like to ask the Minister, since the Housing Corporation Board of Directors was initially created to develop policy for program delivery to the community levels, and if the communities currently do not feel those programs are appropriate, I would imagine that they indicate their concern to the board of directors. How does the Minister intend to address this concern in the event that he basically does away with the Housing Corporation Board of Directors and places it in with his department? Can he explain to this House how he is going to allow for that communication from the communities?

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Members of the existing Board of Directors of the Housing Corporation provide only one avenue through which communities have

input into the housing policies and programs. The most important one is through MLAs through this House, with their direct access to the Minister. Direct approaches from citizens to the Ministers' offices is a common occurrence. So that approach is taken as well. The community level housing associations and authorities also provide important policy and program delivery input, as do the local community councils and other organizations.

The needs survey that is going to be done -- and it happens once every three years -- is also an important way of developing policy and programs. So there is a broad range of avenues open to the public to address policy and program issues, other than the board of directors.

Oral questions. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education. I have had an opportunity to look at the Department of Education's 1990 annual report. This report makes several references to the success we have had in improving enrolment rates in our schools, but I could find little or no information on our success in graduating students from our school system. Perhaps the Minister of Education can inform this House whether his department measures the success of his system on the number of students enrolled in the system or the number of graduates the system produces every year?

Minister of Education, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The measure we use to determine the success of the education system in the NWT is partly determined by the graduating students every year and also graduating students from Arctic College.

Mr. Todd, supplementary.

The department's own statistics show that the number of high school graduates has dropped from 213 in 1980-81 to 162 in 1989-90. Based on those figures, would the Minister say that the current education system is working?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The educational system in the NWT is a relatively new system, especially to the Eastern Arctic communities. The students entering into the system are currently levelling off, whereas in the past there were very large increases every year of students entering into the system. I could show the Member the statistics to show him why there is a drop in students in the last three years.

Oral questions. Mr. Todd, second supplementary.

In my Member's statement today I listed some of the problems that I see with the education system in the North. The fact is that we seem to be getting our kids into the system but we cannot get them in or out of the system with a good basic education. Does the Department of Education have a comprehensive, long-term plan for the NWT education system, especially to improve the number of students that graduate from the system?

Mr. Allooloo.

Mr. Speaker, yes.

Last supplementary, Mr. Todd.

Is the Minister prepared to table a copy of this comprehensive plan in the House this week?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will provide the Member with our comprehensive plan. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

I was asked by a constituent to raise this question today, Mr. Speaker, but the Minister to whom I would like to address the question is not here, so I would like to address it to Mr. Kakfwi as the Minister responsible for constitutional development. This is a big issue in my constituency, Mr. Speaker. Has the plebiscite question, which we are expected to vote on sometime in the summer, been written?

Minister of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs, Mr. Kakfwi.

Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister for constitutional development explain to the House what the process is, since it seems to be a complex one? Exactly what is the process that arrives eventually at a completed plebiscite question?

Mr. Kakfwi.

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

What I meant to confirm, then, is that before the plebiscite question is put, it has to have the approval of this Legislature and not simply the rubber stamp of the government.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education. Traditionally the education system of the Inuit has been very aggressive and very thorough to ensure that the young adults become knowledgeable of the environment, the climate, the marine mammals, the land mammals, and everything else that survival requires when you become an adult; and not only survival but livelihood, happiness and security. Otherwise I think we would have all perished. My question to the Minister is, in his report to the Member for Keewatin Central, would he include how aggressively the Department of Education is also pursuing that type of principle?

Minister of Education, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Member knows, we use the Alberta system in our schools. Also, I believe we exceed the Alberta standard by adding to the design of the curriculum that is used by Albertans. We include northern studies that the students have to take, starting in grade 10 and up to grade 12, in order to pass their grade 12.

At this moment we are using testing of other provinces to determine how ready these students might be when they get out of the school system after completing grade 12. We also offer college through our college system in the NWT; as well, if they want to attend universities in other parts of the country, they can request assistance from our department to go into those institutions.

Oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk, supplementary.

My question is not what curriculum is being used in the school system, whether in the high school or Arctic College. My question is the philosophy of the Education department in regard to the survival of the society with dignity and pride. The survival with dignity and pride means that you have become a success independent from assistance required from the government or any other means. Can he include that philosophy of education, and how they could make it successful, in the report asked for by the Member for Keewatin Central?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member knows it is only within the last few years that the communities have been getting involved in the educational system; I mean the aboriginal people in the communities as well as other people who are living in the communities. They can get involved through education authorities, through divisional boards of education in the regions. That has been happening only within the last two years. What we have here in the NWT is a system borrowed from the southern system that southern Canada uses.

I hope to see that sort of development taking place while we include the community members who know their principles in terms of life and what sort of things we should get our kids ready for after completing grade 12. So far the communities that I know of in the whole NWT have not been developing curriculums; they have not got that far.

Also, I would like to give the Member assurance that we will try to pursue in that light, once we take control of the educational system at the community and regional level. At this moment the department has no measure of how ready these students are after they graduate from the school system. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A few years back the government introduced a $10 per day fine for a child not attending school who was under the age of 16. Looking through the books of CEC, otherwise known as the community education council, I have never seen a receipt that indicates a $10 fine to the parent whose child is not attending.

How can you introduce anything like that? There are two ways you can do it. One is campaigning very aggressively for the children to succeed. The other one is, that you can use the form of punishment which has been introduced in legislation, to have a fine of $10 per day for a student who is not attending. I have never seen anything like that yet. Will the department, when reporting to the Member for Keewatin Central, include how aggressively they are pursuing that?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As a department, we have not been pursuing this aggressively, I agree. What we try to do is to get the CEC, community education council, in each community -- if they want us to

pursue that particular area we can, otherwise we will not pursue it until we are asked by the community. Thank you.

Oral questions. Oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, during the first week of February in Fort Providence we had a very beautiful day and the snow -- I thought the snow was melting but we had a bit of rain. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Transportation decided to put sodium chloride on the access road to the community, and this made a mess of our vehicles. I was getting calls from my constituents inquiring as to why they were doing that. Mr. Speaker, up to that time people were driving at the normal speed and there did not seem to be anything hazardous about the situation before or after. I would like to ask the Minister; why would the department spend, on my access road into Fort Providence, $218,000 on the chemicals that they used for the access road since nobody was complaining about the road? There was no accident to indicate that there was a problem with the road. What was the justification for the department's putting this stuff on the road?

Minister of Transportation, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not know of the situation that the Member is referring to. I was not briefed on the Fort Providence access road. What I can only guess is that the department did that for safety reasons. I can assure the Member that next time we do the project we will consult with the community.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The research that was done is that salt surfacing is done wherever needed. The concept of application is the right amount of chemical is in the right place at the right time. I do not know what that means, but for me it looks like it is in the wrong place at the wrong time. If there was an accident I would understand that, but nobody in my constituency complained about the access road until they applied this sodium chloride or else calcium chloride. I would like to know if it was a nice day so they decided to apply it. Is that the philosophy behind it?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We will consult with the community next time my department feels it needs to be done.

Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

I appreciate the Minister will be consulting my community if they decide to do it on another nice day, but my concern is, is it necessary? If there is no dangerous situation, then I do not think it should be applied. I appreciate his saying he will consult the community, but can he go beyond that and see whether or not there is a need to do that?

Mr. Allooloo.

Mr. Speaker, I will have to take the question under advisement.

The question is taken as notice. Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Health, Hon. Tony Whitford. Yesterday I asked a question. I wanted an indication of how you would deal with a situation like the hospital in Simpson. I just want to recap and say that when you were in Simpson, the community people and the leaders of the region expressed their concern that the hospital should be upgraded rather than downgraded so that more of the beds could be better utilized with new equipment and required staff. In fact, you know there was not even one computer in the whole hospital when you were there.

Yesterday in answer to my question you stated that the consultation team went into Fort Simpson to touch base with the people of that area. You also indicated that there was already some in-house work done to look at some statistics from the hospital itself. You went on to indicate that a timetable has already been drafted. Has a decision already been made on the status of the hospital in Fort Simpson?

Minister of Health, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary. Mr. Antoine.

Okay, I want to make sure that the needs and concerns of the people of the region are taken seriously into consideration, so I just wanted to know, will the needs and concerns of the people in that area be seriously taken into consideration when you decide to make your decision? Mahsi.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Ms. Mike. Sorry, did you

have a supplementary, Mr. Antoine?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A last supplementary. I would like to ask the Minister of Health if he has any internal reports. Is it possible to have copies of any reports from discussion, including your in-house reports? I would like to see your statistic numbers, because I think we have our own numbers from Simpson. I would like to see if we are using the same numbers; so if it is possible to get reports, I would appreciate that. Mahsi.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Ms. Mike.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question to the Minister of Renewable Resources. As he knows well, in Baffin South and Central the fisheries are a very important economic base for that region. I would like to ask if he knows if Mr. Crosbie's office will issue a licence in regard to zones 2G and 2H.

Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Ningark.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not know when exactly, maybe in the near future, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, John Crosbie, will be announcing his licence requirements. We do not know exactly when.

Supplementary, Ms. Mike.