Good afternoon. Orders of the day for Monday, March 2, 1992. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Allooloo.

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. The Inuvik Community Education Council met on Friday, February 28, and recommended a compromise that will provide teachers in both schools in Inuvik with one-half day for in- service training. They also recommended that teachers at both schools be allowed to dismiss classes early in the afternoon on two other days to complete their in-service training.

I would like to welcome to the Assembly, Mrs. Colbourne and her grade 10 class, from Sir John Franklin High School.

--- Applause

Ministers' statements. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to talk about an issue that was raised on several occasions by the honourable Member for Baffin Central regarding the sobriety requirements for alcohol and drug workers in the Northwest Territories. After listening to the debate in question period last Friday, I became very concerned with the approach taken by the Minister of Social Services. Essentially the Minister has told dissenting alcohol and drug groups that it is "my way or the highway."

Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that the sobriety requirement is to be included in all contribution agreements between the GNWT and local boards for the provision of alcohol and drug treatment programs. To me, a contribution agreement means exactly that, an accommodation negotiated between two parties. It does not mean, "Here is the agreement; sign on the bottom line." My question to the Minister would be: Where is the agreement in the current process?

The second concern I have, Mr. Speaker, is the Minister's attitude toward communities who have chosen not to adhere to the sobriety requirement as arbitrarily implemented by the Minister. In the unedited Hansard on February 28 the Minister stated, "I am contemplating very seriously that as the door closes on the acceptance of some of these resources, that I redistribute them to the communities that are showing active participation and support the intent and spirit of the program."

Mr. Speaker, in the Minister's world only communities that adhere to his policy will get funding for drug and alcohol treatment. I hope this is not a typical attitude of this government. I wonder if we will be negotiating community transfer agreements in a similar manner.

Mr. Speaker, this approach and attitude, to me, is clearly unacceptable. No matter what the advantages or disadvantages of a sobriety requirement are, the process used by the Minister of Social Services to implement this requirement is heavy-handed at best. I hope the Minister would reconsider his intransigent approach to this issue, sit down and negotiate with all parties concerned. Thank you.

--- Applause

Members' statements. Members' statements. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have already voiced my concerns about the decision made by the Department of Social Services which tries to force alcohol and drug project employees to abstain from any use of alcohol. Today I would like to raise additional concerns about the way the Minister of Social Services has gone about implementing the decision. I am very unhappy with the Minister's unwillingness to listen seriously to the concerns that have been raised about this policy. I do not believe the Minister understands our Eastern Arctic communities, and I know he does not understand the role of alcohol and drug counsellors at the local level. It troubles me and my constituents that the Minister has not respected the opinions of people who do not understand these things; people like our elders, the community members who sit on our alcohol and drug committees, and skilled addiction counsellors who work in the Baffin Region.

The recommendation to develop this policy was apparently made by the board of management for alcohol and drug services. This board meets in secret and does not make its minutes available for public review. I am shocked to learn that there is currently no representation from either the Baffin Region or the Keewatin Region on the board. The decision to implement this policy has not been re-evaluated since the election to determine whether it conforms with the community self -initiatives about which the Government Leader has been telling us. The concept has never been debated fully in this House.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister is fond of pointing out that only two alcohol and drug projects in the Northwest Territories have refused to sign the contribution agreement which includes the Minister's sobriety clause. But we should make no mistake, there is very little support for this policy in the Eastern Arctic. There is resentment over the disrespect this Minister has shown to our regional council, and there is concern over his disregard for the views of alcohol and drug workers in my region. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Members will join me in welcoming Mr. Mark Evaloarjuk, a former MLA, presently speaker of the Baffin Regional Council and a member of the board of directors of TFN.

--- Applause

Members' statements. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am making this statement as a private Member. My comments may not necessarily reflect the views of my honourable colleagues on the special committee on constitutional reform. The report of the Special Joint Committee on a Renewed Canada carries important applications for all Canadians, and for aboriginal Canadians in particular. I am gratified by the joint committee's position that "after 125 years the time has come to bring aboriginal people into the constitution with equality and respect." Members of the joint committee have proven their commitment to this ideal by proposing entrenchment of aboriginals' inherent right to self-government. This is a significant development in terms of this country's constitutional evolution. I am impressed that the committee chose to overlook those people who, in an attempt to further their self interest, argued that an inherent right to self-government should not or could not exist.

I am referring to the submission made by Mr. Bob MacQuarrie of Yellowknife and certain others across the country. Mr. Speaker, the joint committee did not hear any evidence during the public meetings on whether the entrenchment of aboriginal self-government would affect land claims, but it did consider this to be an important issue which deserves further study. This is a question of significant importance to the Dene of Deh Cho. Our people had the courage to resist political pressures to proceed with a comprehensive Dene/Metis regional claim. They did this because of the federal government's insistence on the extinguishment of treaty rights. I believe that the entrenchment of inherent right to self-government may affect this federal position.

Time has now proved that the stance of Deh Cho and South Slave chiefs has been the correct one. They are to be commended for their patience in waiting to see the outcome of the national constitutional process, and for their reluctance to be hurried into a deal that would not have been in the best interests of the region.

Mr. Speaker, this is a critical time in the history of the South Slave people. I assure this House that I will be working closely with my honourable colleague for Nahendeh, as well as with the Deh Cho Regional Council, to examine the implication of our inherent right on the land claims process. I will be urging the territorial government to support us in these efforts. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Members' statements. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise to inform Members of this Assembly that as a result of a lot of hard work on the part of many concerned citizens in lqaluit last week and this past weekend, a new group, which call themselves "Upassuraakut," which means "a place for people to go," has established itself to provide a drug and alcohol education and counselling service for lqaluit. Joe Adla Kunuk will chair the group, assisted by Alicy Joamie, vice-chairperson, and Bill McConkey, secretary-treasurer. The other seven members of the board reflect a good mix of elders and young people, all of whom have experienced first hand the effects of alcohol and drug abuse on people's lives. They are determined that the counselling service they establish will reflect this life experience of the board members.

The board intends to form a society which will apply for funding from the Government of the Northwest Territories' Department of Social Services to deliver a drug and alcohol education and counselling service for lqaluit. Mr. Kunuk has emphasized that any program endorsed by the group will have spiritual, emotional, physical and mental components. He also noted at a public meeting held on this subject last week that members of the community stressed the importance of the land in developing a recovery program.

Mr. Kunuk also stated that the so-called abstinence policy of the territorial government is not an issue with the new board, which is comprised of abstainers. Mr. Kunuk stated that the main concern of the board is to provide a drug and alcohol education and counselling service which is badly needed in lqaluit. Qujannamiik.

--- Applause

Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to tell people here that I drove back to Fort Simpson over the weekend. I thought the highway was fairly good all the way to Simpson, and I made good time. I was lucky I did not encounter any highway patrol, like my colleague here, so I made very good time.

What about buffalo?

When I got to the Redknife Highway maintenance camp, I could not continue because they had just cooked some moose ribs over the fire. I could not say, "No," because I had been eating restaurant food here all week, so it was a good treat for me.

What I found out was that they closed the road to Trout Lake. Apparently they had four days of good weather in the plus eight and plus nine area, and one day at plus 15 degrees Celsius. What happened is that the winter road had thawed out and four tanker fuel trucks were stuck on the road into Trout Lake. It was inconvenient for the people of Trout Lake to get in and out of the community I know the people that work on the highways are helping to try to open the road. They are working over the weekend, and I want to mention that there are people that work hard and try to do their job right. I want them to be recognized. Mahsi.

Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Mr. Speaker, I guess I am learning in this job that you no sooner get one project completed than another pops up. I am delighted that the capital budget for my department includes a new arena for Sanikiluaq in the coming year.

---Applause

But I see the community is already turning toward their next requirement. Mr. Speaker, I do not have the information at hand to answer the Member's question. We are concentrating on the arena right now, so I will take the question as notice.

Question is being taken as notice. Mr. Pudlat. New question.

(Translation) I have a question to the Minister of Education. Sanikiluaq has been trying to get grade 11 in the community for some time. They had conferences in Sanikiluaq about this. Students come home before the end of the school year because they are getting homesick. For that reason they would like to have grade 11 in the community. What is the status of that request?

Mr. Allooloo.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr .Speaker. Last Thursday as the Minister of Education I presented the budget for education for grades being upgraded to grade 11 in Sanikiluaq. When the main estimates are approved, the grade 11 that they are requesting will be implemented. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Health. Over the past several weeks I have asked the Minister of Health about the Fort Simpson hospital. They are going through the Strength at Two Levels report. I have to make some corrections in that. We do not have a regional board of health for the Mackenzie as indicated in the Beatty report. As well, we have only one contract position in the Fort Simpson hospital, rather than two as stated in that report. There are some mistakes in the report, and recognizing that this Strength at Two Levels report's strategic division of the Department of Health is based on information that is incorrect, how can the Minister have confidence in the recommendations in it, especially regarding the Fort Simpson hospital? Mahsi.

Minister of Health, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine. --- Applause

Beatty Report Re Health Service In Fort Simpson

Appendix 11, Strength at Two Levels report, recommends that the Fort Simpson hospital should be transformed into a modern health centre with no elective birthing, and long-term care being moved to the community through home care and other non-institutional community health care. My question is, what is the Minister's definition of a "modern health centre"?

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the 1990-91 fiscal year the contract physician at the Fort Simpson hospital saw 2220 patients, including one or two life-threatening emergencies, per month. Can the Minister assure the House that regardless of what the department is going to do, according to this Beatty report recommendation, he will not take any steps to eliminate the funding arrangements that allow us to have a medical doctor available in Fort Simpson? Mahsi.

Mr. Whitford.

The question has been taken as notice. Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Health. The Minister of Health often refers to a document called the NWT Way model for health delivery in respect to addressing health care concerns across the Territories. Will he consider tabling that particular document in this House for discussion?

Minister of Health, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister give me some indication as to when he will be able to table the document in this House? Thank you.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Further supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister clarify for me, once he can obtain translation of this document will he take it upon himself to table the document in the House for further discussion? Thank you.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Oral questions. Ms. Mike.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Social Services has been fond of pointing out that only two alcohol and drug projects have refused to sign the contribution agreement which includes the sobriety clause. He has implied that there is great support for his abstinence policy in all other alcohol and drug projects across the Northwest Territories. In fact, this policy is not widely supported in the Baffin Region, and

I suspect that it lacks support elsewhere as well. My question is for the Minister of Social Services. Can the Minister advise the House whether he bothered to canvass the opinions of alcohol and drug workers and their community-based supervisors before deciding to follow through with the implementation of this policy?

Minister of Social Services, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Mr. Speaker, is the Minister willing to admit that some organizations may well oppose and ridicule this policy but have been forced to agree with it only under the threat of funding cutbacks?

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Would the Minister of Social Services be willing to put his convictions to the test by conducting and then tabling a Territories-wide survey which asks all members of alcohol and drug committees and all the professional addiction counsellors in the NWT to indicate whether they support this abstinence policy?

Final supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Social Services did

not answer my question. Can your department conduct a study as to whether this abstinence clause is supported by both the alcohol and drug workers and the counsellors?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Government Leader. The Department of Social Services has introduced this policy of a sobriety clause through the government cabinet on the basis that the principle is to have employees who work directly with the clients set an example. To have consistency in their policy, would the Government Leader introduce this same thing to the teachers of the Northwest Territories, because they have to set an example to the students of the schools?

Madam Government Leader, Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I cannot answer that question. I know in the abstinence question that we are spending a great deal of time on, that it was first introduced by the drug and alcohol committee. We have been given a clear statement that the membership on that has not been fully instituted, and some parts of the Northwest Territories are not on the committee. I would like to take up the offer from Mr. Whitford, the Minister of Social Services, to put a paper forward for debate in the House. We can have that prepared in the next couple of days and move it into committee of the whole so that everyone can have the opportunity to speak. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Social Services. Last week, the subject of the sobriety clause took up a lot of our time. I am concerned about it. I would like to know, in your opinion, what the problem is with the clause. You are the one dealing with this situation. Can you tell this House what the real problem is behind this policy? Thank you.

It is not normal to ask opinions of Ministers but, with that, Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Social Services. Regarding the sobriety policy that is to be passed, if it is passed, will your departmental staff be able to hire people that do not drink? Perhaps, right now, it is only for staff of the alcohol and drug program. The next step might be for all of your departmental staff to abstain from alcohol. Thank you.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Pollard.

I must admit, Mr. Speaker, that when I heard the news that the Expo site was on fire, my hopes were raised, but they were dashed, Mr. Speaker. It was not our building, and there was no damage to our building. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Dent

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, the report was received by Mr. Alvarez on Saturday, I believe, and I have not yet received it, but I will make it available to the House this week. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Oral questions. Oral questions. Mr.

Antoine.

I had my hand up, Mr. Speaker, for an oral question. It is to the Minister of Health again, regarding the hospital in Simpson. Last year we heard there were rumours that the Department of Health was thinking about down-sizing the present hospital. This has caused a lot of concern in Simpson and the region, and that is the reason I am asking you these questions. I asked you earlier what your definition of a modern health centre was, and I was not really satisfied with your answer, so I want to know if it is a nursing station, or is it our present hospital improved with service and programs and the addition of modern equipment? Is it one or the other?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I like what the Minister is saying, and that is basically exactly what we have been saying in Simpson all these years; that from April 1,1990 to March 31, 1991, the hospital in Simpson recorded dealing with over 8000 outpatients. This year they have already seen about 6000 from April 1, 1991 to the end of February, 1992. At present, the hospital in Simpson is very under staffed. The head nurse works sometimes 18 hours a day, and she is run off her feet. We are also badly in need of equipment, and we have said that many times. There were a lot of patients sent out because we did not have the type of equipment there that was required to deal with them. If we do not have the equipment, then the patients will be sent to Yellowknife; we have a facility there, but we do not have the resources to deal with the patients right in Simpson; so, of course, they get sent over here.

What we have been saying is what you are saying: that if we had the resources to take care of our patients in our region, then certainly the place would be more utilized. I would like the Minister to take note of what I was saying, and if the department could get back to me on this as soon as they could. I will have some written questions to you later on. Mahsi.

I did not hear a question in that rather long statement, Mr. Antoine. Oral questions. Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Education. In the past, the Baffin Divisional Board of Education had concerns regarding the funding they will be receiving. This is a big concern for the Baffin Divisional Board of Education, and there are changes being made. I would like to ask the Minister about the changes. The Baffin Divisional Board of Education is against the changes that will be made.

Minister of Education, Mr. Allooloo.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Canadian government has informed us that the Auditor General informed the Canadian government that the funding that is given out every three months -- they follow the policies of the Canadian government, and we were informed that we were not following the policies that were made by the Canadian government, so we were informed that the funding that is given out to the divisional boards has to be given out monthly. Starting in April, the funding will be given out monthly. Before we go about doing it in that way, we will be meeting with the divisional boards with regard to the interest dollars and how they will have to be handled. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Baffin Divisional Board of Education is putting out materials, and we are very pleased with the Inuktitut materials that were produced. I would like to know if they will be stopping them from producing materials. Thank you.

Mr. Allooloo.

(No translation) (Translation) We will be meeting with them regarding the monthly funding that they will be receiving. For example, in the past, the Baffin Divisional Board of Education used to get $600,000 to $700,000, and that was given to the divisional board. If we are going to be giving them monthly funding - we will be speaking with them with regard to this. We will inform them on how the funding will be used and we will (No translation)

Oral questions. Ms. Mike.

(Translation) I have a question for the Minister of Education. It is on the same subject. The Baffin Divisional Board of Education was able to produce some Inuktitut books. In Yellowknife, I used to work for the Department of Education

as a program specialist for Inuktitut classes. I was responsible for producing the Inuktitut material, and it is very difficult for one person to be responsible for this. The Baffin Divisional Board of Education has produced some very good materials in Inuktitut, and they are not misusing the funds that they have. This was tried by the territorial government. He toldyou that if the funding were be given on a monthly basis, they will no longer receive the money they receive from the interest, and the Baffin Divisional Board of Education will not be able to produce such material in Inuktitut.

Minister of Education, Mr. Allooloo.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We will try and provide funding to produce native language materials to be used in schools, in Inuktitut and other aboriginal languages such as Dene. Thank you.

Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

(Translation) Would it not be cheaper if the Baffin Divisional Board of Education produced the material instead of the territorial government?

Mr. Allooloo.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr .Speaker. I am not quite certain if it would be cheaper for the Baffin Divisional Board of Education. For example, for the material that they can use in the Baffin Region, the Baffin Divisional Board of Education has set out a curriculum program only for the Baffin Region, and also in the Keewatin. We are going to try and work with the divisional boards on how the curriculum program can be used the best, whether it is in Yellowknife or in the different regions. I believe that the divisional boards would do their job better in places other than Yellowknife. Thank you.

Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If you findout that it would be cheaper for the territorial government, or the Baffin Divisional Board of Education, to produce the material, then would they go back to the funding that they used to receive?

Mr. Allooloo.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The funding that was given was from the interest, and it was also used for other things. I know that in the Baffin Region it was used to hire casual teachers. We will try and work with the Baffin Divisional Board of Education to produce teaching material, in the future, and on how we will be able to produce that material. I am pretty sure that they are more aware of what kind of material should be in the Baffin Region. Thank you.

Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question was, in the event that you find it is more cost effective to be funding the divisional boards on a quarterly basis, would you consider going back to that instead of monthly payments?

Mr. Allooloo.

Mr. Speaker, I am sorry I did not get the question before. It is the Auditor General directing the Government of the NWT to fund divisional boards by the month. It is not coming from the GNWT to fund these boards on a monthly basis. But whether it is cost effective or not, it is not up to us. We have been told that the financial arrangements that were made between our government and the federal government is that we cannot fund these boards on a quarterly basis. The cost effectiveness in funding these boards does not come into play. Thank you.

Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think this time I have a question that you might be able to hear. The last statement I made was to the Minister of Health, and I asked him if he could look into my concerns and he said "yes" -- off the record, I think I heard that. My question again is for the Minister of Health. In Fort Simpson we have been providing elective birthing, and to consider eliminating this service would be very unpopular. I do not think it would necessarily be cost efficient because in 1990-91 there were 11 births in Simpson, and if you consider the expense of sending these women to Yellowknife two or three weeks prior to due date, this would accumulate expenses and could probably pay for a good portion of a doctor's or a professional midwife's wages in, Simpson. What is the government's position on elective birthing in Fort Simpson?

Minister of Health, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.