This is page numbers 504 - 532 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 524

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr, Chairman. No, I cannot, because, again, there are many factors right now that

we have yet to address. Who would be eligible for Metis health benefits should they ever come? Is it just territorial Metis, those born in the Territories, or Metis from across Canada? Would it be a universal acceptance of Metis people from other provinces? The 1923, the 1953 recognition? The Metis people themselves have questions about this. As I said, along with the Metis Nation, we are trying to ascertain identification or the recognition of who would qualify as Metis. Until we get these, I cannot attach a cost to it. I do not know that until we determine those factors.

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, the issue I am concerned about is that I asked the Minister what stage providing Metis people with health benefits is at. He basically indicated it is at the stage where he says 'Yes" or "No." It is the fear of the cost implications that determines whether or not he should say "Yes" or "No." This is why I have asked for cost implications. In actuality, from his explanation, I have a hard time to believe that we are at a stage where the government can say "Yes" or "No" to providing Metis health benefits to Metis people.

I want to indicate that, seeing we are spending $21 million of air fare costs to patients, I would imagine a portion of this is somewhat for Metis people because they do have to pay a portion of their ticket and absorb that cost, whereas Done and Inuit do not have to. It has always been a concern of mine. The concern I want to bring forth is, if you believe in something and if you are the Minister responsible for an issue and you want the issue to be addressed, you should have the ability to bring forth your belief to cabinet level and see if your cabinet colleagues concur. I do not seem to be getting that from the Minister, and I am concerned about it. Yet, we are asked to approve additional costs in a supplementary benefit that were not identified when the initial budget came forth.

Basically, I am stating, as a Member, that if I have to continually address additional costs in a supplementary appropriation, I want to know when we are going to address Metis health benefits, recognizing that that is going to come on as additional costs. But, ensuring that equitable treatment is given to the native people of the North -- the Metis, the Done, the Inuit -- when are we going to address this issue? I am not getting an answer from the Minister. I would like to ask the Minister, again, when does he anticipate addressing this issue?

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister, prior to proceeding, I cautioned Members earlier about the fact that we should deal with the matter at hand. While I have allowed the question, the question being posed is more of a major policy question, and could have been better asked under insurance services. If the Minister wishes to answer, that is fine.

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

In part, I do not think the honourable Member has a monopoly on caring about Metis. I have a responsibility as the Minister of Health to all people of the Territories. Be assured that my own personal opinion is not that we should ignore people. As well, my own feelings are not the issue here. What I try to convey is that we do not have all the answers to the question. In order to be able to tell Members of the House that this is going to cost more money, we have to find those answers and come up with the things I have suggested in my previous comments. I think I can only assure the Member that the matter is not dead. It is not swept under the carpet. I have yet to get all these answers. It will take some time yet, because we are not the only players in this game. It is federal responsibilities that have to be taken into consideration as well. I think it is a very serious consideration. The Member is concerned about finances, and I am concerned about finances as well. I have not got an answer as to when this will be resolved.

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, my final question -- I do not want to belabour this issue and I do not want to go back to territorial hospital insurance services -- but I understand that part of this funding that is expended is no doubt for the cost for patients travelling from their home communities. Some of those patients would be Metis people, no doubt. Can the Minister commit to address this issue to determine whether he is going to give an answer to the Metis by the fall session? Whether he will provide Metis benefits to Metis people and give a commitment to this House, that he can try to address it by the fall session?

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Minister of Health.

Issue Of Metis Health Care Will Be Kept Active

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I cannot make a commitment that we will have this resolved by the fall. I can only commit that it will be kept active and we will push ahead as quickly as we can, considering everything that we have to consider. But I cannot give a commitment as to fall or spring next year.

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Since the Minister cannot give a commitment, does he anticipate that this issue cannot be addressed for at least a year to 18 months?

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Minister.

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I said I cannot give a date as to when this will be resolved. There are a number of other players involved in this. I hope by fall that something will show positive. On the other hand, it may not; but I will keep the matter active, and we will do our best to resolve this Metis health benefit issue as soon as we can.

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

I want for the record to know that the Minister did not answer my question, and I am concerned about that. However, going to another question on this same topic of medical travel -- and I will keep this in the guidelines of medical travel -- since we are absorbing additional costs for air fare for patients travelling from their home community to the nearest treatment centre, and since regional hospitals and hospitals across the North are considered for possibly a cutback in funding, so that their services may be diminished in some form or another, will the Minister instead consider increasing the funding to these hospitals so they can avoid sending people out of these hospitals and address some of the medical issues that are now being addressed and as a result absorbing a high increase of patient travelling costs?

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Minister.

Some Medical Procedures Not Available In NWT Because Of Low Volume And High Cost

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 525

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I think we are looking at it, and in any reviews of dealing with medical facilities in communities, all these things will be taken into consideration, whether it is more cost effective to establish in that hospital the medical procedure or level of treatment that will be more cost effective, doing it in the community, or sending persons on to other facilities that already offer that. I think it is something we are looking at and it is something I

instructed the department to do, to see what resources are in a community and what can be attracted to a community to utilize facilities in a community that are already existing.

I cannot identify the exact total of the exact costs associated, or what the people went out for, but there will continue to be, for the foreseeable future, a necessity for medical travel. There are things we cannot attract to the Territories, no matter what the population; even Yellowknife is having difficulty in attracting all the medical facilities that we can to operate independently. We still have to use Edmonton, and the Keewatin still has to use Manitoba, and the Baffin still has to use Ontario and Quebec, because there are procedures in medical treatment that cannot be done in the NWT because of the low volume and the high cost. Although we are spending a lot of money on transportation, medical travel, it still would cost more to have facilities here in the Territories unutilized.

As I explained earlier on about the CT scan, to bring that equipment into the Territories and to use that equipment here, we would have to attract people from all over Canada to ever make it profitable. So it is a necessity to use equipment and facilities and treatment programs that are established in the larger centres, Edmonton and Calgary, university hospitals, where it is more available, where, because of the numbers of people using it, it is more economical. It is cheaper for us to buy that, even if it costs money to send people there.

Some of these costs are associated with costs that are unforeseen. The increase in travel costs over the last year has added to this financial burden we are faced with. So it is not always practical to have all of the treatment available because of the associated costs. The same thing would apply to the smaller communities. But these things are being looked at, and in any reviews that we do, we will have to take that into consideration.

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 526

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 526

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Why I ask is the fact that many of our hospitals -- at times their role seems to be diminished, and I look at the hospital in my constituency, there is a reluctance even to deliver a baby. The amount of referrals for women to have babies, and for such things as tonsillectomies or any minor medical procedure, are not even considered any more because the hospitals determine they should not perform these types of practices.

When you look at the fact that we spend $21 million a year, and we do not want to consider added funding for the hospitals to take care of anesthesia and operating procedures that could possibly be done in these centres instead of sending people out of the community all the time, in the long run, you could save a substantial amount of funding. That is my question to the Minister. I would like to ask him if he will consider looking at this particular suggestion, and report to the Assembly by the summer when we are going to discuss the budget in detail on this particular matter?

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 526

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Whitford.

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 526

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr, Chairman. Yes, I will consider that.

Medical Travel Total O and M, Agreed

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 526

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Medical travel, not previously authorized, $3,144,000. Agreed?

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 526

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Total O and M, Agreed

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 526

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Total department, $13,054,000. Agreed?

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 526

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Territorial Hospital Insurance Services, Total Capital, Agreed