Good morning. I would like to recognize, seated in the Speaker's Gallery, the Hon. David Warner, Member of the Provincial Legislature of Ontario for Scarborough/Ellesemere and Speaker of the Ontario Legislature.

---Applause

I understand that the Deputy Commissioner is prepared to assent to bills this morning. Therefore, Mr. Clerk, would you ascertain if Her Honour, the Deputy Commissioner, is prepared to assent to bills?

Please be seated. Mr. Speaker, and Members of the Legislative Assembly, I am pleased to be here today to perform my first official act as Deputy Commissioner. Before assenting to bills, I would like to say how honoured I am to have been appointed to this position.

The position of Deputy Commissioner of the Northwest Territories has a special place in the history of the Northwest Territories, and I want you to know that I will do my best to represent the wonderful mixture of cultures and heritage that we all share.

Mr. Speaker, as Deputy Commissioner of the Northwest Territories, I hereby assent to: Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Elections Act; Bill 10, An Act to Amend the Local Authorities Elections Act; Bill 11, An Act to Amend the Plebiscite Act.

---Applause

Please be seated. Orders of the day for Friday, March 6, 1992. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Ningark.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to report to the House on my recent meetings in Vancouver and Ottawa. In Vancouver I met with the Hon. John Crosbie, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. Our discussions concerned the developing Baffin fishing industry. Mr. Crosbie was able to assure me of the following commitments:

1) The Tungavik Federation of Nunavut land claim provisions will be considered in decisions relating to the management and harvest of inshore and offshore marine resources;

2) No new northern shrimp licences will be issued. Any increases to the quota will be divided among the existing 17 licence holders, of which 1.5 licences are held by territorial companies; and

3) The Government of the Northwest Territories will continue to participate in the Atlantic Council of Fisheries Ministers and its advisory committees. Through this council, decisions are made on the management of Atlantic marine resources. I extended an invitation to co-host the next meeting of this Ministers' council in Pangnirtung next summer.

After this meeting with Mr. Crosbie, I went to Ottawa. At the National Forest Congress, I and the other Ministers of Forestry signed an accord supporting the new Canadian forest strategy. This strategy sets the direction for forest management in Canada. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report that this strategy follows the direction that our government has already established in our forest management programs.

The strategy states that: a) forests should be harvested on a sustainable basis; b) forests are also important as wildlife habitats, for subsistence uses, and for leisure activities and should be managed accordingly; c) forests should be managed with involvement from residents; d) traditional uses and knowledge should be part of forest management.

At the National Forest Congress, I met with Mr. Paul Ramsey, who represented the British Columbia Forest Minister. We discussed the problems being created for trappers by forest companies in the Liard area. Mr. Ramsey made a commitment, on behalf of the Minister, to investigate the problems and to report back to me.

While in Ottawa, I had the opportunity to meet with several other agencies: the Fur Institute of Canada; Indigenous Survival International; the Canadian UNESCO committee; and the organizers of an international environmental education conference called ECO-ED, which will be held in Toronto this July. Each meeting related to promoting the use of renewable resources at national and international forums.

Mr. Speaker, I was encouraged by these meetings because one of my objectives as Minister of Renewable Resources is to educate the people throughout the world about the way we live. Two of these agencies are highlighting the importance of traditional knowledge, especially in resource management. The Government of the Northwest Territories is recognized as a leader in this field, in large part because of the efforts of Mr. Jim Bourque, the former deputy minister of Renewable Resources.

Although I was busy, I can also report that it is already spring in Vancouver, still winter in Ottawa, and I am glad to be home. Mahsi cho.

We are glad to have you home, Mr. Ningark. Ministers' statements. Mr. Ningark.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think I am working too hard. I am the only one

making statements here.

I am pleased to announce that with the signing of the Northwest Territories-Canada Co-operative Agreement in Forestry, the Government of the Northwest Territories now can provide more support for community-based forest management projects. The Department of Renewable Resources is working closely with the community of Fort Liard to develop an integrated resource management plan for their traditional lands. This will also provide the community with an opportunity to participate in the management of these resources. The department is fully committed to the success of the resource management plan and will use the provisions of this co-operative agreement to ensure success of the plan. The Fort Liard band is commended for their initiative in obtaining additional funding under the Arctic environmental strategy.

At the request of the Fort McPherson Band, the department has also been working on a forest inventory project. The result of the inventory will be available for review within the next few months. Thank you.

Ministers' statements. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Members' statements. Mr. Gargan.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (Translation) Mr. Speaker, a long time ago, I went to school in Fort Providence and Fort Simpson. At the time we were only taught in English. When we said something in Slavey we were punished for it. As a result of that, when I went to school in 1967, that is the only way I have been taught. We rarely did things in Slavey; we only did things in English.

These days, when kids go to school in Fort Providence, they get taught in Slavey, but the place that they are taught is a white man's setting, and I do not feel this is right. What the government is saying, right now, is that if the communities want to govern something they would be able to help them. What I am saying, Mr. Speaker, is that if we are going to be taught in the native way I think the people at the community level should be the ones who are in charge of it. The way they sing, the way they tell stories -- these things should all be looked after by native people.

If the children were taught outside of the school setting, they would be taught better. If they were taught in the native way, the native people should be in charge of teaching them. The Department of Education should be giving some thought to these kinds of things. The people are concerned about the way the students are being taught in English and the government should be helping them. The way I see it, the songs and the native stories, the way the native language is taught right now, I do not think it will survive. I think it has to be taught outside of the school, and that way I think they will be able to preserve it. Thank you.

Members' statements. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Returns to oral questions. Mr. Whitford.

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Arngna'naaq on February 21, 1992, on the business incentive policy not being enforced. I have looked into the Member's concerns, and I can assure him that all contracts awarded by DPW have been, and will continue to be, awarded in accordance with all GNWT contract policies and procedures. The department follows these procedures for all contract awards in every NWT community. Thank you.

Returns to oral questions. Oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is to the Minister of Renewable Resources. I received a fax yesterday from the Hay River Reserve. There is a concern about Evergreen Forestry, Mr. Speaker. The company itself is a company combined of Fort Providence and the Hay River Reserve, and the problem they are having right now is that they have been put on hold with regard to an agreement. The five-year agreement was signed, with three years of operation and an option of two additional years. The difficulty right now is that the government has indicated that they are not going to negotiate the two other optional years until they come up with their privatization policy or direction.

Mr. Speaker, while the government is still addressing that whole privatization issue, there is a situation where spring is around the corner, summer is around the corner, and we still have not had any direction in that area. I would like to ask the Minister whether or not he will be dealing with Evergreen Forestry with regard to the two optional years. They would like to operate for the next two years.

The preamble was a little bit long, Mr. Gargan. If Members could try to shorten their preambles. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am still new in the Department of Renewable Resources dealing with forestry, and I am very interested in the area of forestry, although I came from an area with no trees. I am also very interested in community concerns regarding this forestry issue. Mr. Speaker, I thank the Member for asking the question. I will review the matter with my officials and get back to the

Member, and I hope I will be able to deal with this matter positively for the Member's benefit. Thank you.

Are you taking the question as notice, Mr. Ningark?

Yes.

Question is being taken as notice. Oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, obviously Toronto is not a level II or level III community. The reason for that retail outlet is, if we want to improve the economy in level II and level III communities in the Northwest Territories, one of the ways that we can do it is to market the products that they produce. We are trying a two-year experiment in Toronto, to move products made in the Northwest Territories into a greater marketplace. There is a lot of traffic there. If it works, we will consider going to other high density traffic areas to move more Northwest Territories products. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Mr. Pollard.

I cannot quantify it in numbers, Mr. Speaker. As I said, it is an experiment, and I cannot tell you how many jobs it is going to create in the NWT. I can tell you that the co-operative is sitting with $1.9 million worth of stock in its warehouse in Winnipeg. I can tell you that people across the Northwest Territories who are making arts and crafts, who are doing carvings, are not selling as many as they used to. That is because we are producing more than is being sold, because the traffic into the Northwest Territories is not as great as the amount of handicrafts that we are producing. All we are doing is saying there is a potential there to help those level II and III communities, those crafts people, and the problem that everybody is experiencing right now is finding markets. If that means that this government has to go out there and move those products, then we will do it. If it is successful, we will gladly spin it off to the private sector. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, there were a number of things that were looked at a couple of years ago. We looked at attending trade shows; we looked at joint venturing with people; and we looked at making some more arrangements with Arctic Co-operatives. The decision was made some 12 months ago that this would be the way to prove up whether or not this would be a good marketing tool.

Oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister responsible for Renewable Resources. I would like to thank the Minister for representing us and signing this new Canadian Forest Strategy. He outlined here a key point in the strategy, but I would like to look at the strategy myself, since I have a lot of forest in my constituency and people are interested in it. I was wondering if the Minister is going to be tabling this Canadian Forest Strategy. Thank you.

Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Oral questions. Ms. Mike. I am sorry, did you have a supplementary, Mr. Antoine? Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wanted to know when this document would be tabled. The sooner we take a look at it, the better for us. Thank you.

Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As soon as I can.

Oral questions. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a supplementary to Mr. Dent's question to the Minister of Economic Development. Ever since the territorial government took over the Inuit art collection in 1987, which the Indian and Northern Affairs Inuit art section used to take abroad for shows, is the drop of sales in carvings due to the fact that our territorial government does not have travel shows any more, like Indian and Northern Affairs did?

Who would like to take that? Mr. Pollard.

What has happened, I think, Mr. Speaker, is that there has been a saturation in the market that we have had. We are putting on an exhibition in Yokohama on May 9. Mr. Allooloo, the Minister for Culture, will be attending. We are sending over some throat singers, and a drummer, I think, and we are going to try to raise the level of knowledge about Inuit carving in Japan. We already have an agent there, Mr. Y. Niimi. He was here last Monday with our consultant from Toronto, and they look forward to a greater expansion of the market in Japan. I hear what the Member is saying, and I would like to confirm that we are putting on those displays, and hopefully when Mr. Allooloo is in Yokohama he will be able to come back and say there will be other displays in the Japanese market, which is considered a good market right now. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not know which of the Ministers I should direct my question to, whether to Culture and Communications or to Economic Development. As much as we know how much there used to be displays the Northerners had through Indian and Northern Affairs, when they had exhibits the Minister of Indian Affairs never ever attended any of the exhibits; it was only the staff that went, who had knowledge in Inuit art. Why is the Minister required to go to the exhibit in Japan?

I would say this is a new question. Does the Minister of Economic Development or the Government Leader want to answer? Minister of Economic Development.

Mr. Speaker, in Japan there is a lot of protocol and certain ways to do things. This is a very prestigious occasion in a very new setting. Mr. Y. Niimi, our agent, has been granted five days at this brand new building to put on this exhibit. I was invited to go as the Minister responsible for Economic Development and Tourism. I felt it would be better, seeing that this is structured around Inuit art, if there were an Inuit Minister in attendance who could explain, much better than I could, his culture and the origin of Inuit art, and who could also speak the language. The reason for the presence of a Minister is, we want to put this as high profile as possible because, as I said before, there is a large market at stake. We are talking art; we are not talking crafts or handicrafts in this instance. When the Japanese asked us to send a Minister, then I think it is a good idea that we do.

For the information of the House, Mr. Allooloo will also be going to Sapporo, where he will be discussing putting together a very high class catalogue which will further serve to exhibit this kind of art throughout Japan. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a supplementary for the Minister of Culture and Communications. Mr. Speaker, do we not have an Inuit or northern art specialist in place? Or, are you the one?

Minister of Culture and Communications, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my department we do not have an art specialist at this moment, but we have people who are working in this field. When I go to Japan I will be taking with me department personnel from Economic Development and Tourism to assist me in this field. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Renewable Resources. In your Minister's statement you stated that no new northern shrimp licences will be issued. Are you specifically talking about Cumberland Sound licence application by the Qikiqtaaluk Development Corporation and Makivik Corporation?

Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When my deputy had a discussion with Honorable John Crosbie in Vancouver, he stated that no new shrimp licences will be allocated in the North Atlantic Ocean. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Are you saying that Cumberland Sound is part of that Atlantic, or is Cumberland by itself?

Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my understanding, Mr. Speaker, that it is considered as an unutilized species. I believe that it is excluded from this area. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. One of the new initiatives of the department was the development of a Northwest Territories credit corporation, which I assume is now operational. What is the status of the NWT Business Loans Board?

Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are in the stages right now of rolling the portfolio over to the Business Credit Corporation, and I will be bringing forward a bill to write off or set aside some $2.5 million as we move the portfolio over to the BCC. So I am hopeful that will be accomplished in the next 10 or 15 days, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

If this is happening, is it business as usual today for people who are applying for loans?

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, I must admit that we have had some difficulty with the Auditor General, and also in coming up with a list of the loans that should be turned over and what we should set up for doubtful accounts; so perhaps in the last 10 days or 14 days it has not been business as usual, Mr. Speaker, but we hope to be on track within the next 15 days. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

The terms for the board of the new Business Credit Corporation, will you be rolling the old board over to take the place and accept the responsibility for the new credit corporation?

Mr. Pollard.

I will take the question as notice, Mr. Speaker, and I will get back.

The question has been taken as notice. Oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Is there a computer doctor in the House? Which Minister would like to respond to this? Mr. Pollard.

Gee thanks, Mr. Speaker. We are just hoping we do not catch the virus, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Mr. Lewis.

I appreciate, Mr. Speaker, that hope is better than despair, but I would like to ask the appropriate Minister, then, what precautions are being taken to protect the tremendous base of information that this government has, including our very famous financial information system, so that everything does not get lost and that everybody who expects to get paid at the end of next month will still be on the computer after today.

Mr. Pollard or Mr. Ningark. Mr. Ningark, Minister of Government Services.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We were concerned about this when we were informed. We wanted to unhook the cables into the wall until the time passes, and we also wanted to try and get a doctor in to fix them. All departments are advised in this regard, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since my honourable colleague here says it is Friday, usually things are pretty light here today, so I am going to ask the Minister responsible for Renewable Resources, since he is responsible for the forests. I took him over to Liard in January to see the trees, and he comes from a land where there are no trees. So I want to ask him if he could tell the House the type of trees that are in the Liard Valley. Thank you.

---Laughter

It is not normally within the Minister's knowledge but since it is Friday I will allow the Minister to attempt to answer it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe we have poplar, white spruce, black spruce, and jack pine. Jack pine, Mr. Speaker, was selected in 1989 as the official tree of the Territories.

---Applause

I think you passed the test, Mr. Ningark. Oral questions. Oral questions.

Item 6, written questions. Written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

Mr. Speaker, return to Question W7-12(2), asked by Mr. Todd to the Minister of Education, concerning the Northwest Territories post-secondary student statistics; return to Question W9-12(2), asked by Mr. Bernhardt to the Minister of Justice, concerning absolute discharges and training for judges re sexual assault cases.

Hon. Titus Allooloo's return to Question W7-12(2), asked by Mr. Todd on February 20, 1992: The Department of Education has provided me with a number of tables on students enrolled in, and graduating from, post-secondary programs. These tables have been sent, as requested, to the Member for Keewatin Central.

The tables include numbers of post-secondary students enrolled over the past eight years. Information on total enrolment for 1983, and for 1984, is available, as well as enrolment in technical and degree programs. However, enrolment figures for southern and northern institutions are not. That information was not collected then.

Information on numbers of graduates from post-secondary programs is only available now for 1988-89. The department first attempted to collect graduate information for 1986 to 1988 through a survey conducted by mail. The return rate was so low no meaningful numbers were provided. In 1988-89 graduates were surveyed by telephone. As this has proven to be a successful method of collecting student graduation numbers, a telephone survey to determine graduation rates for 1990, 1991 and 1992 will be conducted this summer.

The information provided in the tables on student enrolment and graduation was collected through the student financial assistance program. While some NWT residents may be pursuing post-secondary studies full time at their own expense, the Department of Education has no ongoing method of gathering the numbers of those students. However, the department expects that the number of individuals enrolled in post-secondary programs who are not receiving student financial assistance is very low. The information provided through the student financial assistance program identifies almost all of the students enrolled in, and graduating from, full-time post-secondary studies.

Hon. Dennis Patterson's return to Question W9-12(2), asked by Mr. Bernhardt on February 25, 1992: A request was made for a list of all cases in which an absolute discharge has been granted for sexual offences by territorial court judges within the past five years. This was followed up by a request about whether this data was available from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the regional Crown office and our own territorial court registries.

In all cases the response was that it is not possible to retrieve this information without doing an individual file review. Such a review would take weeks. In the current period of fiscal restraint, resources are not available to conduct such a study. A justice information system, which will in the future be capable of tracking such information, is being tested by the territorial court registries and should soon be operational. Regardless, I am advised that absolute discharges are very rare for sexual offences. "The Sexual Assault and Sentencing Study," released in 1991, which I will distribute to Members, was funded by our Department of Justice and the NWT Law Foundation. It reviewed cases before the courts of the Northwest Territories during the period January 1, 1988, through December 31, 1989. The study gives a range of sentences in table 8.31. No reference is made to an absolute discharge.

On the issue of the training of judges on topics relating to gender issues, sexual assault or sentencing of sex offenders, training is something which the judiciary administers for itself, though judges may attend sessions which are not sponsored by the judiciary. The Western Judicial Education Centre has had an intensive three-year commitment to judicial education in the areas of aboriginal peoples and gender equality. Their programs have been highly acclaimed by Canadian and American experts. At their most recent week-long workshop, held in Yellowknife last June, there were sessions on both gender and sexual assault issues.

Returns to written questions.

Item 8, replies to Opening Address. Replies to Opening Address. Item 9, petitions. Petitions. Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table Petition 4-12(2) from the residents of Pond Inlet, requesting the proposed library project in Pond Inlet to be constructed as planned in 1992. The petition contains 193 signatures.

Petitions. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. Mr. Todd.

Mr. Speaker, the standing committee on finance is pleased to provide the Legislative Assembly with a short report on creative planning sessions which were recently conducted. The standing committee on finance first met during the first session in December, 1991. The committee was faced with a very heavy workload at that time and was unable to discuss, in detail, the role and responsibilities of the committee over the next four years.

It was agreed it would be beneficial for the committee to meet for a couple of days prior to a review of the 1992-93 capital estimates to fully discuss the role and responsibilities of the committee. As a result, the committee held a creative planning session in Yellowknife on February 1st and 2nd. Sessions were facilitated by Mr. Mike Bell of Inukshuk Management Consultants. The committee made several decisions that we would like to inform the Members about, and a full detailed account of the sessions are in the report in Appendix 1.

The purpose of the planning session was to decide on the primary purpose of the committee. The questions we were faced with were: What is our mandate and how are we going to fulfill this mandate? After much discussion, the committee adopted the following mission statement and principles which will guide our work for the next four years.

The mission of the standing committee on finance is to advise the Legislative Assembly, on behalf of the public, in all areas related to financial management and the proposed expenditure of funds, and to hold the government accountable for its spending. To carry out this mission, the standing committee will be guided by the following principles:

1) Government spending and financial management must respond first to fundamental human needs;

2) It must be guided by a strategic framework and be based upon sound fiscal policies;

3) It must ensure equity, fairness and universality of benefit to all Northerners in the Northwest Territories; and

4) It must be effective, efficient and economical.

The committee discussed many other issues of importance, including its relationship with other groups; how the committee should operate; and the priorities of the committee. The committee recognized that much more discussion must take place between committee Members and with other Members of the Legislative Assembly before we fully deal with these issues. The committee has set an ambitious work plan to help resolve some of these issues. The plan is relatively short term and is designed around three individual projects:

1) the development of interim procedures to guide its relationship with government and ordinary Members;

2) the development of a clear set of goals and objectives; and

3) a full review of the procedures used by the committee.

The committee has set clear deadlines for the completion of these projects. We welcome the comments and suggestions of all Members to assist us in achieving these goals. The committee appreciates the support provided by the facilitator and the staff at that time.

Motion That Committee Report 6-12(2) Be Received And Adopted, Carried

With that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to move, seconded by my honourable colleague for Kitikmeot, that the report of the standing committee on finance on our creative planning session, be received and adopted. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Mr. Todd, your motion is in order. Ms. Cournoyea.

Point Of Order

Point of order. The chairman of the standing committee on finance, on item 1, substantially read the first principle with differing words, and I would suggest that if the idea is to leave it as the report says, that it be read into the record again. Thank you.

I am not quite sure if I understand, 100 per cent, the point of order. I think the honourable Member is saying that what is in the report might not be exactly the same as what the Member has said. What I would suggest is that we will review Hansard and, if necessary, a correction can be entered into the record.

Agreed.

There is a motion on the floor. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Reports of standing and special committees.

Item 11, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table Tabled Document 19-12(2), Annual Report of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, 1990-91. Thank you.

Tabling of documents. Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table Tabled Document 20-12(2), a letter which was sent to me regarding the Pond Inlet library. Thank you.

Tabling of documents.

Item 13, notices of motions. Notices of motions.

Item 14, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 15, motions. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Aivilik, that this Legislative Assembly orders the topic of "the sobriety clause in contribution agreements" be moved into the committee of the whole for discussion.

Your motion is in order. To the motion. The question has been called. All those in favour? Opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

The motion will be put into committee of the whole. Item 16, first reading of bills. Mr. Pollard.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nunakput, that Bill 21, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1990-91, be read for the first time.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The motion is in order, Mr. Pollard. All those in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 21 has had first reading. First reading of bills. Mr. Whitford.

The motion is in order, Mr. Whitford. All those in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 20 has had first reading.

Item 17, second reading of bills. Item 18, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 9-12(2), Strength at Two Levels; Tabled Document 10-12(2), Reshaping Northern Government; Tabled Document 12-12(2), Plebiscite Direction; Bill 14, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1992-93; and Committee Report 3-12(2), SCOF Review of the 1992-93 Capital Estimates, with Mr. Nerysoo in the chair.

Department Of Transportation

Members recall that we were on general comments with regard to capital estimates for the Department of Transportation. What is the wish of the committee; that we continue with this particular matter?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Does the Minister wish to invite witnesses?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes.

Thank you. Mr. Minister, could you introduce your witness, please?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the record, to my right is the acting deputy minister of Transportation, Mr. Andrew Gamble.

Thank you. If Members will recall, Mr. Antoine was in the midst of his general comments yesterday, so I will go back on general comments to Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On Transportation, by general comments yesterday, I was talking about my support for finishing the highway from Wrigley north through Fort Norman and Norman Wells. Yesterday I was quoting some prices I got from 1985. That is the last time that I received some figures. I was going to offer those figures as something to start with.

I had talked about it yesterday, and today I am just going to say that in the area of transportation, we also have airports. In most of the communities we have airports in my area, but Nahanni Butte is another community in my constituency that requires an airport. They have a small strip and sometimes it is not possible for the plane to land there. The only transportation in there is through air in the summertime, so it is necessary to have an airport in Nahanni Butte. Also, they have buffalo there too, so this time of the year the pilots have to fly past the airport to check the airstrip to see that there are no buffalo droppings on the airstrip, because that is dangerous.

Anyway, that is just a side point, but in the rest of my region we have winter roads, and in a question the other day the Minister said they were going to review the winter roads budget. I am concerned about it. We have winter roads into Trout Lake and Nahanni Butte, and there is the construction of a road out of Jean Marie but that is not going to be completed for the next few years. These three communities require winter roads and if there are going to be some changes to it, it is certainly going to affect the people in these communities, and I have some concern about it. This is for the people that rely on winter roads. That is my general comment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As for the winter roads, there is not going to be a change for the remainder of this year, but for next year we are reviewing the opening days and the closing days of the winter roads because of the concern raised by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. They are concerned about the environmental concern regarding crossings of rivers and lakes. If there are going to be any changes to the opening and closing of winter roads, we will keep the public informed as much as possible and communicate to the communities who that affected.

As for the roads, road construction to the Member's particular area, our plan has not changed. Thank you.