Debates of June 25th, 1992

This is page numbers 762 - 787 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was services.

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Ministers' Statement 76-12(2): Minister's Absence From The House

Ministers' Statement 77-12(2): Training Northerners In Construction Trades

Ministers' Statement 78-12(2): Yellowknife Correctional Centre

Reassignment Of Ministerial Portfolios

Funding For Vessel, Sanikiluaq

Traditional Knowledge Working Group And Aboriginal Languages Conference

Decentralization Of NWT Science Institute

Telephone Services, Snare Lake

Social Problems In The North

Confidence In Government Leader's Ministerial Assignments

Government Working For The People

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Question O645-12(2): Civil Action Against GNWT And Doctor Re Malpractice

Question O646-12(2): Telephone Lines For Snare Lake School

Question O647-12(2): Result Of Negotiations Re Polar Bear Quotas

Question O648-12(2): Support For Great Slave Lake Fishermen

Question O649-12(2): Block Funding For Capital Projects

Question O650-12(2): Criteria For Selecting Members Of Abortion Services Review Committee

Question O651-12(2): Recommendation Of Public Utilities Board Re Rate Structures

Question O652-12: Results Of Abortion Review Committee

Question O653-12(2): Co-ordination Of Northern Science Activities

Question O654-12(2): Assessment Of Students By Health, Social Services And Education

Question O655-12(2): Increase In Licence Fee By Liquor Licensing Board

Question O656-12(2): Obtaining Legal Aid For Medical Malpractice Suits

Question O657-12(2): Meeting Mental Health Needs Of Northern Communities

Question O658-12(2): Accelerate Provision Of Additional Phone Lines Into Snare Lake

Question O659-12(2): Ministerial Action If Students Are Unfairly Held Back From Advancement

Question O660-12(2): Increase To Liquor Licence Fee

Question O661-12(2): Review On Cost Impact Of Indexing Social Assistance Rates

Question O662-12(2): Approved Financial Assistance For Educational Leave Applicants

Question O663-12(2): Update On Review Of Fuel Purchasing

Question O664-12(2): Bringing Mentally Handicapped Persons Back From Southern Institutions

Question O665-12(2): Power Rate Increases

Question O666-12(2): Number Of Electrical Inspectors In The Nwt

Question W44-12(2): Annual Operational Costs And Liquor Tax Revenue Of The Liquor Licensing Board

Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

W37-12(2): Status Of The Board Of Management For Alcohol And Drug Services

Committee Report 13-12(2): Report Of The Standing Committee On Public Accounts On The Review Of The Financial Statements Of The GNWT And The Report Of The Auditor General For The Fiscal Year Ending March 31, 1991

Committee Report 14-12(2): Report Of The Special Committee On Health And Social Services, Interim Report No. 1

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Notice Of Motion 23-12(2): Appointments To Fill Standing Committee Vacancies

Notice Of Motion 24-12(2): Election Of Deputy Chairperson Of Committee Of The Whole

Notice Of Motion 25-12(2): Extended Adjournment Of The House

Notice Of Motion 26-12(2): Tabled Document 62-12(2) To Committee Of The Whole

Item 15: Motions

Appointments To Fill Standing Committee Vacancies

Election Of Deputy Chairperson Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 20: Third Reading Of Bills

Item 21: Orders Of The Day

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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The Chair John Ningark

The question is being called. All those in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Proceed, Mr. Zoe.

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Henry Zoe North Slave

Finally, on that topic, Mr. Chairman, in its discussion with Mr. Lovely, deputy minister of Personnel, the committee Members noted that his department was moving ahead vigorously to correct a number of inadequacies pointed out by the Auditor General. Changes recently introduced should significantly reduce travel costs. The committee wishes to commend Mr. Lovely and his department for their decisive action.

The next area that our committee looked at, which was reported in the Auditor General's report, was the role and responsibilities for government-wide financial management. In preparing for the public hearing, the committee requested a presentation on the roles and responsibilities of government's senior financial managers. While committee Members appreciated the presentation, they noted some differences in the interpretation among some of the participants about how the role should be defined. In addition, there seemed to be lack of clarity about the relationship and responsibilities of departmental managers and managers within central agencies. The committee is particularly concerned about the role of the comptroller general. The control function of his office is weak. It should be significantly strengthened. The committee noted that the Financial Administration Act empowers the comptroller general with direct action capability, but in practice, the role has been reduced to more of an advisory role analogous to a slap on the wrist when things go wrong. In the committee's view, this is not adequate, and the independence and the role of the comptroller general needs to ensure that systems and processes protect public property. The committee feels that roles and responsibilities should be clarified, especially to deal more effectively with financial restraint. We therefore have a recommendation to that effect, Mr. Chairman.

Motion To Accept Recommendation 14, Carried

I move recommendation 14. Government should strengthen the roles and responsibilities of the deputy minister of Finance and the comptroller general. The role of the comptroller general should be made more independent of Finance, and the accountability of the incumbent should be spelled out more clearly. Both the deputy minister and the comptroller general should become more pro-active in dealing with spending problems, and they should ensure that all departments obtain value for money.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. That was a good motion. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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The Chair John Ningark

The question has been called. All those in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Continue, Mr. Zoe,

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Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, the next area the committee reviewed was asset management in government. The Auditor General reported on his first audit of asset management. This government has some three billion dollars invested in non-cash assets such as inventories, buildings, equipment, art and other cultural items, et cetera. The committee heard testimony from the comptroller general, who has a leadership role under section 12 of the Financial Administration Act, and the deputy ministers of several other departments with specific custodial responsibilities. The committee was disturbed to hear a recurring theme that departments had control systems but none were complete, and there is no overall control and accountability for asset control. In reality, no one knows exactly what the government owns or what it is worth. This is disturbing because the assets owned represent major investment in infrastructure and other items for the people of the Territories.

The committee had no satisfaction that the various departments were doing a good job of effectively managing and controlling this large investment. The committee also expressed its concern about how little departments cooperate and work together to control and manage assets. We heard too many examples of why things could not be done rather than how departments could work together to make improvements.

The committee was surprised at the extent of cultural assets that were owned, and in many cases, not controlled property. Many cultural items were portable and valuable. These include carvings, prints and paintings owned by Culture and

Communications as well as significant other items owned by other departments. For example, Mr. Chairman, the Department of Economic Development and Tourism had a program to purchase art works and lend them to other departments. The committee heard that this is not done, and the inventory of these attractive and valuable items is not well controlled.

Other cultural items have unique characteristics that make them extremely valuable, but they are not properly managed. Meanwhile, the government warehouse contains examples of ordinary items that are not highly valuable yet take up expensive storage space.

The committee heard that many purchases of capital items are budgeted and paid for under O and M, not under capital. In many cases, items are being ordered on a component-by-component basis to get individual items in the system under the $5000 capital assets definition. This is a blatant attempt, Mr. Chairman, to avoid showing items correctly as capital assets which are under more detailed scrutiny by the Legislative Assembly, especially in these times of restraint. The committee, therefore, has four recommendations on this topic.

Motion To Accept Recommendation 15, Carried

I move recommendation 15. That the comptroller general develop a strategy to encourage interdepartmental coordination in the design of asset control systems; that he create and carry out a plan to provide maximum coordination in the design and development of inventory control systems, particularly for Department of Public Works, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs and the Department of Transportation; and that he report on this plan to the public accounts committee, either in person or in writing, at least twice a year.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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The Chair John Ningark

Question is being called. All those in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Proceed, Mr. Zoe.

Motion To Accept Recommendation 16, Carried

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Henry Zoe North Slave

My second recommendation pertaining to this issue, recommendation 16. I move, Mr. Chairman, that departments with asset custodial responsibilities work together to identify where systems, methods and processes can be combined to save money. All asset inventory systems should be completed promptly and should contain all pertinent information about the assets, including all legal descriptions and maintenance data.

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The Chair John Ningark

Your motion is in order. To the motion.

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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The Chair John Ningark

Question is being called. All those in favour? Opposed, if any? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Zoe.

Motion To Accept Recommendation 17, Carried

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Henry Zoe North Slave

A third recommendation pertaining to this item, recommendation 17. I move that the Department of Culture and Communications develop a comprehensive policy to properly manage historical and cultural assets; that the policy provide procedures for acquiring, assessing, classifying, maintaining, protecting, insuring and controlling these assets; and that the department develop a system and establish procedures for conducting an inventory of historical and cultural assets, including those which are the responsibility of other GNWT departments, agencies and institutions.

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The Chair John Ningark

Your motion is in order. To the motion.

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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The Chair John Ningark

Question being called. All those in favour? Opposed, if any? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Motion To Accept Recommendation 18, Carried

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Henry Zoe North Slave

Our final recommendation dealing with the assets management in government is recommendation 18. I move that the government take immediate steps to stop departments from splitting capital purchases into smaller components and classifying them as O and M expenditures.

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The Chair John Ningark

Your motion is in order. To the motion.

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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The Chair John Ningark

Question is being called. All those in favour? Opposed, if any? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Continue, Mr. Zoe.

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Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That concludes our report for the standing committee on public accounts.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I feel we broke a record for making motions today. Does the committee agree that the committee report is concluded?

Debates of June 25th, 1992

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