This is page numbers 1003 - 1032 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Titus Allooloo, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Arngna'naaq, Hon. James Arvaluk, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Ms. Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Mr. Nerysoo, Mr. Ningark, Hon. Dennis Patterson, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Mr. Todd, Hon. Tony Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 1003

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Now this House will come to order. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Allooloo.

Minister's Statement 94-12(2): Changes To Proposed Hunting Licence And Tag Fees
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1003

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

In February of 1992, the Department of Renewable Resources announced increases to fees for hunting licences and tags. The department received many letters from communities, outfitters and tourism associations expressing concern over these increases. In summary, the letters agreed that fees should be increased but not to the levels proposed.

After reviewing the comments and the potential effect of the increases on the outfitting industry, I have agreed to make the following changes: One, tag and trophy fees will be kept separate; two, trophy fees will remain the same as previously announced except barren-ground caribou, musk-ox, and polar bear, will be set at $150, $150 and $750 respectively.

The revised fees will come into effect on July 1, 1993. The department will advise outfitters, communities and tourism associations of the changes so that they, in turn, will be able to advise next year's clients.

It is important that our government supports the desires of our people. Outfitting is an activity that uses traditional skills and is one of the few economically viable activities in the smaller communities. Our government wants to make sure that we keep these businesses viable.

I believe these new fees reflect the value we place on our wildlife, and also respond to concerns expressed by the public.

Qujannamiik.

Minister's Statement 94-12(2): Changes To Proposed Hunting Licence And Tag Fees
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1003

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

The Royal Oak Mine Disaster
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1003

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to comment on the disaster which occurred at the mine here in Yellowknife on September 18. Mr. Speaker, I know that this tragedy has touched many people deeply in Yellowknife, as well as in my home constituency and throughout the Northwest Territories.

I know that the people of Nahendeh are thinking about the family, and friends, of the nine miners. We want them to know, the families, that our sympathies, and our prayers, are with them. I know too, that people are concerned about the feelings of shock, fear and anger that has descended upon the city of Yellowknife since this tragic event took place.

Like other honourable Members stated yesterday, this is a time for reflection, rational thought, and for letting cool heads prevail. I was glad to hear the Government Leader tell the House yesterday that she will be insisting that the federal Minister of Labour come to Yellowknife and take a direct role in finding a resolution to the strike at Royal Oak Mines. She has my full support to urge him to take some action. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Royal Oak Mine Disaster
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1003

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Madam Premier.

Return To Oral Question O766-12(2): Legality Of Regional Council Meetings During Session
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1003

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, this is a reply to an oral question asked by Mr. Sam Gargan on September 14, regarding the legality of regional council meetings during session. The September 9 and 10 meeting, referred to by the honourable Member, was a meeting of the Deh Cho Tribal Council, a federally funded body which is not subject to the Regional Council's Act.

The act applies only to the Deh Cho Regional Council, which is tentatively scheduled to meet in early November.

Return To Oral Question O766-12(2): Legality Of Regional Council Meetings During Session
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1003

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question O733-12(2): Pilot Project On Victims Of Crime
Return To Oral Question O766-12(2): Legality Of Regional Council Meetings During Session
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1003

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, this is a response to a question asked by Mr. Dent on the 10 of September, in regard to victims of crime. The Victim Impact Statement pilot project has been in place in nine communities in the territories, since the summer of 1991. Victim Impact Statements may be reviewed by a judge when sentencing an offender who has pleaded guilty, or has been found guilty of an offence following a trial.

The statement allows a victim to put information before the court about the harm or loss he or she has suffered as a result of an offence. These statements do not prevent victims from having to testify at trial. As well, during the sentencing process, when Victim Impact Statements are used, a victim may be liable to cross-examination on the content of the statement, if it is disputed by defence counsel.

It is the victim who must assess the impact of an offence on him or her, for the completion of a Victim Impact Statement. This is a very personal matter and the forms are only filled in by the victim on a voluntary basis. A rationale for the implementation of this project is to make the criminal justice system more accountable to victims.

This pilot project was implemented to allow the department to identify difficulties that may be encountered, in advance of any large-scale implementation. A recent assessment based on telephone interviews with players relevant to this project indicates that relatively few victims are making use of the opportunity to make Victim Impact Statements. In order to determine what factors have kept victims from using the program, it will be necessary to continue the pilot project as originally scheduled until the end of December. Thank you.

Return To Question O733-12(2): Pilot Project On Victims Of Crime
Return To Oral Question O766-12(2): Legality Of Regional Council Meetings During Session
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1004

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Return To Question O716-12(2): Agreements Under The Medical Care Act
Return To Oral Question O766-12(2): Legality Of Regional Council Meetings During Session
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1004

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Todd on September 9, 1992, concerning agreements under the Medical Care Act. Mr. Speaker, the director of medical insurance has not entered into any agreements under the Medical Care Act, to pay physicians on other than a fee for service basis.

Return To Question O796-12(2): Special Needs Facility For The Kitikmeot Region
Return To Oral Question O766-12(2): Legality Of Regional Council Meetings During Session
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1004

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Secondly, if I may, Mr. Speaker, a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Ningark on September 16, 1992, about special needs facilities for the Kitikmeot region. The capital costs of construction, as well as the operating costs for a special needs group home facility, are very high. (In excess of $1.7 million for construction, and $250,000 for yearly operation). At present, the facilities in Rankin Inlet and Iqaluit are used to provide services for the Kitikmeot region. There are a total of 16 beds for special needs children and, at this time, only seven are being used. Of these, only two children are from the Kitikmeot. There are no Kitikmeot children in southern institutions. In some cases, chronic care is provided in hospitals by the Department of Health. Such as in the case which prompted the question.

This child is not in the care of the Department of Social Services, and a special needs centre would not be appropriate for this child, as these facilities are unable to meet the medical needs of chronic care children. The Department of Social Services is not aware of any special needs children in the region who are not receiving support services from an appropriate department. Qujannamiik.

Return To Question O796-12(2): Special Needs Facility For The Kitikmeot Region
Return To Oral Question O766-12(2): Legality Of Regional Council Meetings During Session
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1004

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk.

Return To Question O821-12(2): Cambridge Bay Education Facility
Return To Oral Question O766-12(2): Legality Of Regional Council Meetings During Session
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1004

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Ningark on September 18, 1992, concerning the Cambridge Bay Education Facility.

The Department responsible for Government Services and Public Works is proceeding with the design of the new ten classroom kindergarten to grade six school, for Cambridge Bay. Construction of the new school is planned for 1993-94.

We are also making progress in the planning necessary to renovate the old school into a new ten classroom, grade seven to 12 school, for Cambridge Bay. The renovation is scheduled for 1994-95, to meet projected increases in student enrolment.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question O821-12(2): Cambridge Bay Education Facility
Return To Oral Question O766-12(2): Legality Of Regional Council Meetings During Session
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1004

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Allooloo.

Further Return To Oral Question O723-12(2): Oil Spill On The Mackenzie River
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1004

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Antoine on September 9, 1992 with respect to the oil spill on the Mackenzie River.

Departmental staff have not observed any environmental impacts on wildlife from the spill, however, the staff will continue to monitor the situation.

Diesel fuel is a relatively light substance which tends to float on the surface of water. Under the water and air temperatures at the time of the spill were such that approximately 50 percent of the fuel would have evaporated in less than 24 hours. The remaining fuel would continue to evaporate, be broken down by bacteria, with a wind and wave action into other by-products. These components would be quickly diluted by the fast flowing waters of the Mackenzie River. Such low concentrations are not toxic to wildlife.

When I, and other officials, visited the site the morning after the spill, we saw only a slight sheen of fuel on the water. I was told that any remaining fuel would have broken down completely in less than one week.

Further Return To Oral Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1004

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Mr. Speaker, if I may I have another return asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on September 16, 1992, with respect to timeframe for the Trans-boundary Water Agreement.

Alberta and British Columbia are still in the process of negotiating a Trans-boundary Water Agreement. All information, including water quality standards, is confidential to Alberta and British Columbia. The Northwest Territories is not privy to this information at this point in time.

Thank you.

Further Return To Oral Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1004

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Oral Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1004

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, could I seek unanimous consent to return to Members' statements?

Further Return To Oral Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1004

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Further Return To Oral Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1004

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

The Member is asking for unanimous consent to return to Members' statements. Are there any nays? There are no nays, Mr. Nerysoo.

The Disaster At Royal Oak Mine
Revert Back To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1004

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to indicate to Members that the statement that I wish to make today is

quite lengthy and, at the appropriate time, I will be seeking unanimous consent to continue with my Member's statement.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At the request of my honourable colleagues in the Ordinary Members' Caucus, I wish to comment further on the matter of the Royal Oak Mines disaster.

Mr. Speaker, Members of our caucus realized that there are many unanswered questions about the tragedy which occurred last Friday. We are eager to see these outstanding matters addressed, and will pursue them at a more appropriate time in the future.

However, the Ordinary Members' Caucus is also very mindful of the fact that the circumstances surrounding the tragedy have had a painful, and even terrifying, impact on the people of Yellowknife and the Northwest Territories.

As a group, we came to the conclusion that now is not the time for demanding answers and probing details. As mentioned by Mr. Ballantyne in his comments yesterday, now is the time for people to support each other and to work together.

The same sentiments were expressed by several of my honourable colleagues, who spoke on this matter yesterday. At the same time, Mr. Speaker, there are things that must be done with regard to the situation which presently exists.

Honourable Members in the Ordinary Members' Caucus agreed with the Government Leader's comment yesterday, that we are faced with two serious matters. The most immediate of these is the R.C.M.P. investigation into the death of the nine miners. The second of these involves resolving the labour management dispute that has been ongoing since last May.

I would first like to make a few comments about the matter of the investigation, and some recent suggestions that a public inquiry should be held. We understand that the R.C.M.P. investigation is running its course, and will hopefully answer many of the questions that have been on the lips, and in the minds, of northerners ever since we first learned about this tragic event.

Mr. Speaker, could I seek unanimous consent to continue with my statement?

The Disaster At Royal Oak Mine
Revert Back To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1005

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Disaster At Royal Oak Mine
Revert Back To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1005

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

The Member is asking for unanimous consent to continue with his statement. Are there any nays? Proceed, Mr. Nerysoo.

The Disaster At Royal Oak Mine
Revert Back To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1005

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and thank you, honourable colleagues. Ordinary Members have heard clearly the call from some public quarters, that an inquiry should be established under the Public Inquiries Act.

It is the opinion of the Ordinary Members' Caucus that this is a suggestion that is more appropriately considered at a later point in time. It is critical that our law enforcement agencies proceed with their criminal investigation. If unanswered questions persist after the police, the mine safety inspectors, and the coroners dispatch their responsibilities, then clearly there may be a need to consider avenues for an inquiry under the most appropriate federal or territorial legislation.

The second issue, on which the Government Leader commented yesterday, is the matter of the labour management dispute at the Royal Oak Mine. The Ordinary Members' Caucus have noted her comments, and feel that it is imperative for the Government of Canada, through the federal Minister of Labour, to fulfill its obligations to the Northwest Territories, in respect to the settlement of the strike.

Like the Government Leader, ordinary Members feel strongly that we must make it clear that northerners want the Minister here immediately. To that end Mr. Speaker, I will give notice of a motion later this afternoon, on behalf of all my honourable colleagues in the Ordinary Members' Caucus, calling on the Prime Minister of Canada to direct his Minister of Labour to come to the Northwest Territories immediately, and to establish a framework for a speedy resolution of this dispute.

Because of the urgency of this matter, Mr. Speaker, I will be seeking the unanimous consent of this House to deal with this motion today. Mr. Speaker, honourable Members of this House will be aware that for several months, this government had made attempts to find some way to resolve this labour dispute.

To a large degree, efforts in this area have been frustrated by the fact that this is an area that is not within territorial jurisdiction. The efforts have been undertaken, however, have not yet been documented in a comprehensive fashion. For this reason, Mr. Speaker, I will be bringing forward two written questions, today, that will request the government to provide this House with a summary of the actions undertaken, to date, on this issue, as well as the details regarding the frequency of safety inspections undertaken since the outset of the strike. We will be asking the government to place a priority on the preparation of this documentation, so that they might be delivered to this House by Monday, September 28.

While ordinary Members, no doubt, wish to address other outstanding questions surrounding this terrible event, we also feel that we must consider the needs of those who are in mourning. Mr. Speaker, I think we are all aware that in many ways this sense of loss and bereavement extends far beyond the families and friends of the nine miners, and indeed it is felt by all residents of the territories. Out of respect for the heavy feelings which continue to burden many northerners, honourable Members on this side of the House would not wish to make this a time for an irrational and emotional political debate. That time will come, and the information we have requested from the government will, we hope, assist in those future discussions. We will be addressing accountability issues in the future. For today, however, ordinary Members have felt that it would not be appropriate to raise oral questions on the matter of the mine disaster, or related issues. Certain honourable Members may, however, wish to express their sentiments, and those of their constituents, upon the personal tragedy surrounding this event.

In closing, it should be noted that the work of the government must go on. There are very pressing issues before us with respect to housing, our fiscal outlook, and other matters of concern to the people of the Northwest Territories. We will raise oral questions on other issues, and we will participate in consideration of matters before committee of the whole, but Mr. Speaker, we will do it with a heavy heart. In closing, I would again wish to express our condolences to the families, and the friends, of the nine miners who have been lost from our midst. Our thoughts, our prayers, continue to be with you in this time of sorrow.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Disaster At Royal Oak Mine
Revert Back To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1005

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Are there any further Members' statements. Mr. Pudluk.

Visitors To The Assembly From The Baffin Board Of Health
Revert Back To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1006

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I stand today to welcome Mr. George Eckalook, Chairperson from the Baffin Health Board. I would like to welcome them to the Legislative Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Visitors To The Assembly From The Baffin Board Of Health
Revert Back To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1006

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Are there any further Members' statements? Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Are there any oral questions? Mr. Pudlat.

Question O822-12(2): Minister's Response For Additional Classrooms In Cape Dorset School
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question will be, although the Minister may not be able to respond today, to the Minister of Education. The request I have, and I also indicated this in Cape Dorset, is for additional classrooms in the Cape Dorset school. I want a response from the Minister. Would he be able to give a return to my question during the duration of this Legislative Assembly?

Question O822-12(2): Minister's Response For Additional Classrooms In Cape Dorset School
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Arvaluk.

Return To Question O822-12(2): Minister's Response For Additional Classrooms In Cape Dorset School
Question O822-12(2): Minister's Response For Additional Classrooms In Cape Dorset School
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

James Arvaluk Aivilik

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Regarding the request for Cape Dorset, I have written a letter to the Divisional Board, the Baffin Divisional Board, to ask a question, " have they planned for this additional classroom?" Once the chairperson of the Baffin Divisional Board has responded, then I will be able to prepare my response to the Member. Thank you.

Return To Question O822-12(2): Minister's Response For Additional Classrooms In Cape Dorset School
Question O822-12(2): Minister's Response For Additional Classrooms In Cape Dorset School
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Are there any oral questions? Mr. Zoe.

Question O823-12(2): Response To Resolutions Of N.w.t.a.m.
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question would be directed to the Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs. In this past spring, Mr. Speaker, the N.W.T. Association of Municipalities held their annual general meeting, and a number of resolutions were passed pertaining to our government. I would like to ask the Minister, has the department responded to all of the resolutions that were submitted to his office?

Question O823-12(2): Response To Resolutions Of N.w.t.a.m.
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Allooloo.

Return To Question O823-12(2): Response To Resolutions Of N.w.t.a.m.
Question O823-12(2): Response To Resolutions Of N.w.t.a.m.
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, we have not responded to all of the resolutions that were passed by the Association of Municipalities annual assembly. Some of the resolutions were directed internally, some of the resolutions were directed towards federal departments, and others were directed to other departments of this government.

The ones that were directed to us we have tried in every way possible to address the concerns. Some of the concerns, the resolutions that we have not yet responded to, are still being researched. Thank you.

Return To Question O823-12(2): Response To Resolutions Of N.w.t.a.m.
Question O823-12(2): Response To Resolutions Of N.w.t.a.m.
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe.

Supplementary To Question O823-12(2): Response To Resolutions Of N.w.t.a.m.
Question O823-12(2): Response To Resolutions Of N.w.t.a.m.
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A number of resolutions were specifically pertaining to our government, and to Municipal and Community Affairs. Now, my question was, how many of these specific resolutions were responded to, and how many are still outstanding? I understand that the Minister is saying that some of them require research, and if that is the case, then how soon could the Association of Municipalities anticipate receiving the response?

Supplementary To Question O823-12(2): Response To Resolutions Of N.w.t.a.m.
Question O823-12(2): Response To Resolutions Of N.w.t.a.m.
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Allooloo.

Further Return To Question O823-12(2): Response To Resolutions Of N.w.t.a.m.
Question O823-12(2): Response To Resolutions Of N.w.t.a.m.
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Some of the recommendations are going to take some time to be responded to. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take some time to respond to the Member properly, listing the resolutions that are directed to the department, and I will respond to him in a letter from me. Thank you.

Further Return To Question O823-12(2): Response To Resolutions Of N.w.t.a.m.
Question O823-12(2): Response To Resolutions Of N.w.t.a.m.
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Member from Thebacha.

Question O824-12(2): Rebate Program For Seniors
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of the N.W.T. Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, I want to indicate to the Minister that I have noticed over the past couple of weeks, constituents that have reached the age of 65, who still currently have a mortgage with the N.W.T. Housing Corporation, are not allowed to take into consideration, or to take advantage of, the Senior Citizens' Supplementary Tax Rebate Program, because their taxes are included in their mortgage.

I would like to ask the Minister if he would be able to request his officials to determine the individuals, with mortgages, that may be entitled to the Senior Citizens' Rebate Program for tax relief purposes? Thank you.

Question O824-12(2): Rebate Program For Seniors
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question O824-12(2): Rebate Program For Seniors
Question O824-12(2): Rebate Program For Seniors
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes.

Return To Question O824-12(2): Rebate Program For Seniors
Question O824-12(2): Rebate Program For Seniors
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

Question O825-12(2): Construction Date Of Lake Harbour Arena
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question in regards to requests, I am not sure which Minister I will be directing it to, maybe to recreation. My question is in regards to the arena at Lake Harbour. From what I understand, it should be done in the year 1996, and my constituents are requesting that it should be brought up to an earlier date.

I understand that there is a shortage of funding, but my question is, would they be able to deal with it, or finish it, at an earlier date? If I could get a response in regards to this, it would be appreciated. If you cannot answer it now, I would like a response as soon as possible.

Question O825-12(2): Construction Date Of Lake Harbour Arena
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1006

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Allooloo.

Question O825-12(2): Construction Date Of Lake Harbour Arena
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will give my response as soon as I can.

Question O825-12(2): Construction Date Of Lake Harbour Arena
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Member for Baffin Central.

Question O826-12(2): Direction For G.n.w.t. Participation In International Year Of Indigenous Peoples
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since the Honourable Nellie Cournoyea has the highest ranking of our Cabinet, and representative of our House in national and international matters, I will direct my question to her.

I am sure that she is aware that on March 18, 1992, the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted a resolution which proclaimed that 1993 was to be recognized as International Year of Indigenous Peoples. She should also be aware that on July 28, 1992, the Inuit Tapirisat of Canada adopted a resolution that activities related to the International Year of Indigenous Peoples, should not be coordinated by the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs.

I.T.C. has also requested adequate funding to support participation in this international initiative. My question to the Government Leader is, what direction has she provided to her Cabinet with respect to this government's participation, or involvement, in the 1993 International Year of Indigenous Peoples?

Question O826-12(2): Direction For G.n.w.t. Participation In International Year Of Indigenous Peoples
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Return To Question O826-12(2): Direction For G.n.w.t. Participation In International Year Of Indigenous Peoples
Question O826-12(2): Direction For G.n.w.t. Participation In International Year Of Indigenous Peoples
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I am aware of the particular motions, and the action taken by the Inuit Tapirisat of Canada. I have put it on the agenda, we have not concluded on exactly what we are going to do, or how we are going to represent those requests. However, we should be taking that through Cabinet in the next month. Thank you.

Return To Question O826-12(2): Direction For G.n.w.t. Participation In International Year Of Indigenous Peoples
Question O826-12(2): Direction For G.n.w.t. Participation In International Year Of Indigenous Peoples
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Supplementary To Question O826-12(2): Direction For G.n.w.t. Participation In International Year Of Indigenous Peoples
Question O826-12(2): Direction For G.n.w.t. Participation In International Year Of Indigenous Peoples
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Qujannamiik. Supplementary to the Government Leader. Within our Cabinet, we have both a Minister responsible for Culture, and a Minister responsible for Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs. Can the Government Leader indicate, now, which department will be assigned the key role in dealing with matters surround the International Year of the Indigenous Peoples?

Supplementary To Question O826-12(2): Direction For G.n.w.t. Participation In International Year Of Indigenous Peoples
Question O826-12(2): Direction For G.n.w.t. Participation In International Year Of Indigenous Peoples
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question O826-12(2): Direction For G.n.w.t. Participation In International Year Of Indigenous Peoples
Question O826-12(2): Direction For G.n.w.t. Participation In International Year Of Indigenous Peoples
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I will be more able to provide that after we have gone through our Cabinet meeting, because that is the purpose of the meeting. The paper is to discuss how much we have to do, to what extent our activities and support would be required, and then from there we will discuss who should be assigned. I will be prepared, once we conclude our meeting, to provide the lead Minister on that. Thank you.

Further Return To Question O826-12(2): Direction For G.n.w.t. Participation In International Year Of Indigenous Peoples
Question O826-12(2): Direction For G.n.w.t. Participation In International Year Of Indigenous Peoples
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Oral questions. Member for Thebacha.

Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question to the Minister of Renewable Resources. Last week, on September the 15, I asked the Minister of Renewable Resources a question in regards to the Trans-boundary Water Agreement with other provinces, particularly Alberta. He advised me that the draft agreement with Saskatchewan had been completed, and recently released for public consultation. Alberta negotiations, as he stated today, were moving slowly, because they were waiting to finalize their own agreement with British Columbia, and at this point there are no negotiating criteria for our agreement with B.C.

When he answered, I thought the reply was very familiar, so I know I asked this question to the former Minister back in February, and checking back in Hansard, Mr. Speaker, the answer I received from this Minister was exactly the same, word for word, in his briefing notes, the same as the one that the former Minister gave me. This Minister gave me the same answer last Tuesday. So, I would like to ask the Minister, is he indicating to me, to the House, and to the people of the north, that there has been absolutely no progress on this initiative in regards to our water quality agreement accord over the past seven months? Thank you.

Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr Allooloo.

Return To Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In respect to the N.W.T. and Alberta Trans-boundary Water Agreement, that is true. Thank you.

Return To Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Supplementary, Member for Thebacha.

Supplementary To Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

That is really unfortunate, and it is a shame, Mr. Speaker, recognizing all the pulp mill development that is happening in the south. I would like to further ask the Minister, what steps has he taken, since he has been reassigned to the portfolio, to personally ensure that these water quality agreements are put in place as quickly as possible? Has he taken no steps at all? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Allooloo.

Further Return To Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1007

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have spoken to my department to make sure that the Trans-boundary Water Agreements are progressing. As I stated in this House, the responsibility for water is very complex, because water moves and crosses political boundaries. Water flowing to the Northwest Territories from the other jurisdictions, at this moment, we have no control over. It is quality until it reaches our boundary. Therefore, the best way, I think, to manage water, is to work cooperatively with other jurisdictions to ensure quality is maintained throughout an entire water basin. Even if the G.N.W.T. had full responsibility in respect to water, we would not have jurisdiction in other provinces until it reaches our border. Although the G.N.W.T. does not have

direct responsibility for water quality, we have been working cooperatively with the federal government on several managing programs throughout the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, several N.W.T. departments, including Health, Renewable Resources, M.A.C.A., and E.M.P.R., are represented on the technical advisory committees to the water board who issue water licenses within the N.W.T.. Mr. Speaker, I will try my best, as I stated, to talk to the Alberta Government, to make sure that the negotiations will proceed as soon as possible. Thank you.

Further Return To Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1008

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Oral questions, supplementary, Member for Thebacha.

Supplementary To Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1008

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and as much as the Minister spoke, he still has not answered my question. I asked what steps has he taken, personally, to ensure that these quality agreements are put into place as quickly as possible? I recognize, Mr. Speaker, that he indicated that he is working together with the provinces and the federal government, but he is working very slowly. I would like to, again, give him the benefit of the doubt and ask him, what steps has he taken to ensure these water quality agreements are put into place, since he has taken over the portfolio? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1008

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Allooloo.

Further Return To Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1008

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Mr. Speaker, when I took over the responsibility, I know the Member was very concerned about the water quality flowing into the Northwest Territories, especially in Slave River. I asked my department to see what we could do, as we do have an interim water quality agreement between Alberta and our government. That water quality agreement is in place to protect the water flowing into the Northwest Territories. I am told, at this point, the scientific information that has been gathered through the monitoring stations tells us that the water quality flowing into the Northwest Territories, is better than any other jurisdictions throughout Canada, and we are hoping to maintain that high level. We are talking in trillions of parts, and my department informs me that the Alberta Government will not negotiate a Trans-boundary Water Agreement until they have an agreement with B.C. I am not sure what else I can do. Perhaps the department that acts as a province on behalf of the Northwest Territories, could represent us, since they have the responsibility with respect to water. Thank you.

Further Return To Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1008

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Supplementary, Member for Thebacha.

Supplementary To Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1008

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to the same Minister. Mr. Speaker, when I asked about this matter last February, the previous Minister indicated that the Mackenzie River Basin Committee had made a commitment to conclude negotiations on all Trans-boundary Bilateral Agreements within the Mackenzie River Basin by the end of 1992. This Minister indicated last week that he was looking at possibly 1993. Can the Minister assure the House that it will still be possible to meet the deadline, and conclude all bilateral agreements by December 31, 1992, as it was indicated to me in February. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1008

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, that was your final question. Mr. Allooloo.

Further Return To Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1008

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish we could do that, have Trans-boundary Water Agreements by the end of December. My department tells me that we are hoping to have bilateral agreements with the Alberta Government by spring. That is the target now. We were hoping that Alberta and N.W.T. negotiations would end last spring, but we were not able to do that, because the Alberta Government refuses, at this point, with the N.W.T. Thank you.

Further Return To Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Question O827-12(2): Progress On Trans-boundary Water Agreement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1008

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Ms. Mike.

Question O828-12(2): N.W.T. Participation At International Trade Fair
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1008

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question will be for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. I know that the Minister and his officials are always on the look out for promising new forums in which we can showcase the fine arts products and Arctic foods produced by northern aboriginal people.

He should be aware, in this case, that the United Nations will be promoting a major international trade fair for products made by indigenous people. This is one of the initiatives proposed for the 1993 International Year of Indigenous Peoples.

Has the Department of Economic Development and Tourism studied the possibility of the Northwest Territories participation in this event?

Question O828-12(2): N.W.T. Participation At International Trade Fair
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1008

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question O828-12(2): N.w.t. Participation At International Trade Fair
Question O828-12(2): N.W.T. Participation At International Trade Fair
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1008

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, we will be participating. There are a number of products across the Northwest Territories and somehow, we are going to have to scale them down, put a package together so that we can get the best bang for our dollar. We will be participating and we will try to involve as many northerners as possible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question O828-12(2): N.w.t. Participation At International Trade Fair
Question O828-12(2): N.W.T. Participation At International Trade Fair
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1008

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

Question O829-12(2): Transfer Of Economic Development Responsibilities In The Kitikmeot
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1008

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Government Leader. The Government Leader will be aware that there is considerable interest within my constituency about working toward the devolution of economic development programs and services.

I understand that the Kitikmeot Inuit Association has been working hard to produce a discussion paper for this proposal and now has developed a project steering committee.

My question, Mr. Speaker, is can the Government Leader outline the steps that her government will use to consider the proposal for the transfer of economic development responsibilities within the Kitikmeot? Thank you.

Question O829-12(2): Transfer Of Economic Development Responsibilities In The Kitikmeot
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1008

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Madam Premier.

Return To Question O829-12(2): Transfer Of Economic Development Responsibilities In The Kitikmeot
Question O829-12(2): Transfer Of Economic Development Responsibilities In The Kitikmeot
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Yes, Mr. Speaker, as you know, the continual discussion on devolution of responsibilities to communities is active in our day to day activities at the Cabinet level.

At this point in time, we are just concluding and trying to put together a framework paper so that the process would be easy to access. At this time, the particular positions on economic development are certainly in discussion. We have had a number of proposals on where that should go. The consideration of the Kitikmeot proposal will be looked at seriously and with due respect. We hope that, in our discussions here, by the end of the week, we will be able to conclude the framework to give communities an outline on how they can access these transfers.

We are aware of the work that Kitikmeot Inuit Association is doing, as well. By next week, we hope that the necessary documentation would be concluded so that we can take it to the committee on shaping northern government. Once that is completed, we will make that publicly available so that people will know what the procedures are, how to access, and what has to be done to get their proposals looked at quickly. Thank you.

Return To Question O829-12(2): Transfer Of Economic Development Responsibilities In The Kitikmeot
Question O829-12(2): Transfer Of Economic Development Responsibilities In The Kitikmeot
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question O829-12(2): Transfer Of Economic Development Responsibilities In The Kitikmeot
Question O829-12(2): Transfer Of Economic Development Responsibilities In The Kitikmeot
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Government Leader for her response. When the framework is completed on this initiative, Mr. Speaker, can the Government Leader indicate whether she is prepared to appoint a G.N.W.T. representative to the project steering committee? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question O829-12(2): Transfer Of Economic Development Responsibilities In The Kitikmeot
Question O829-12(2): Transfer Of Economic Development Responsibilities In The Kitikmeot
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question O829-12(2): Transfer Of Economic Development Responsibilities In The Kitikmeot
Question O829-12(2): Transfer Of Economic Development Responsibilities In The Kitikmeot
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, yes.

Further Return To Question O829-12(2): Transfer Of Economic Development Responsibilities In The Kitikmeot
Question O829-12(2): Transfer Of Economic Development Responsibilities In The Kitikmeot
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

Question O830-12(2): Available Funding For Heritage River Park
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise to question the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. First of all, I would like to thank the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism and the Finance Committee in regard to the Heritage River that was opened recently.

I know that we will be having some economic benefits out of that place that was opened. I have a concern that there is no, I have not looked at the capital estimates as to whether there would be any money to run the place that has just been opened.

I wonder if there is going to be any money in the budget to run the park? Thank you.

Question O830-12(2): Available Funding For Heritage River Park
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question O830-12(2): Available Funding For Heritage River Park
Question O830-12(2): Available Funding For Heritage River Park
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

John Pollard Hay River

Yes, there will funds to operate. Obviously, we are still putting together the total plan for the park, Mr. Speaker. Certainly we will be providing funding to operate the park, yes. Thank you.

Return To Question O830-12(2): Available Funding For Heritage River Park
Question O830-12(2): Available Funding For Heritage River Park
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Member for Thebacha.

Question O831-12(2): Private Sector Purchasing G.n.w.t. Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not too sure if I should pose this question to the Minister of Finance, or to the Minister of Personnel, regarding the sale of government housing.

I would like to ask, whether or not consideration has been given for participation of the private sector to dispose of surplus government housing units? Thank you.

Question O831-12(2): Private Sector Purchasing G.n.w.t. Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Which Minister would like to respond to that question? Mr. Kakfwi. Madam Premier. Mr. Pollard. Excuse me, rule number one.

Return To Question O831-12(2): Private Sector Purchasing G.n.w.t. Housing
Question O831-12(2): Private Sector Purchasing G.n.w.t. Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There has been considerable interest expressed by the private sector in the disposal of government housing. Not the least of which has come from Fort Smith, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I think we are interested in coming up with a way to dispose of government housing, so that we can gain some revenue from it, and people can gain ownership of housing in communities.

There has to be a number of things taken into consideration, as I am sure everybody is aware, and that is, is there a housing market, etc.? When it comes down to the disposal of the assets, we are keenly interested in the private sector doing that part for us. It would have to be done with some consultation with them, because I am informed that there are a number of agreements that can be entered into with real estate companies, but, certainly, we are interested. The second thing that would be of concern to us is the rate at which we release those houses so that we do not upset the housing market. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question O831-12(2): Private Sector Purchasing G.n.w.t. Housing
Question O831-12(2): Private Sector Purchasing G.n.w.t. Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Member from Thebacha.

Supplementary To Question O831-12(2): Private Sector Purchasing G.n.w.t. Housing
Question O831-12(2): Private Sector Purchasing G.n.w.t. Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister when he would anticipate considering bringing forth the concept of disposing these units to the private sector? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question O831-12(2): Private Sector Purchasing G.n.w.t. Housing
Question O831-12(2): Private Sector Purchasing G.n.w.t. Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question O831-12(2): Private Sector Purchasing G.n.w.t. Housing
Question O831-12(2): Private Sector Purchasing G.n.w.t. Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1009

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, these responsibilities lie between the Department of Personnel and the Department of Finance in some respects so

I will have to consult with the Minister of Personnel, who is the lead Minister on the disposal of government housing. But, I would point out that I believe we are using realters in Yellowknife at the present time so, I do not think it is going to take that much time before we get to the other communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question O831-12(2): Private Sector Purchasing G.n.w.t. Housing
Question O831-12(2): Private Sector Purchasing G.n.w.t. Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1010

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Item 6, written questions. Mr. Nerysoo.

Written Question 59-12(2): Actions Undertaken By G.n.w.t. Regarding Labour Dispute At The Royal Oak Giant Mine
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 1010

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. Written questions, Mr. Speaker. I have a written question for the Government Leader. Would the Government Leader provide for the House a comprehensive summary of negotiations, consultations, correspondence and all other actions undertaken by the Government of the Northwest Territories which have been directed toward the resolution of the labour dispute at the Royal Oak Giant Mine in Yellowknife.

And, Mr. Speaker, I wish to request that the Government Leader table this document in the House no later than Monday, September 28, 1992.

Written Question 59-12(2): Actions Undertaken By G.n.w.t. Regarding Labour Dispute At The Royal Oak Giant Mine
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 1010

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 6, written questions. Mr. Nerysoo.

Written Question 60-12(2): Activities Of Department Of Safety And Public Services During The Royal Oak Mines Labour Dispute
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 1010

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a written question to the Minister of Safety and Public Services. Would the Minister provide a summary of the activities undertaken by officials of the Department of Safety and Public Services including the dates, locations, and circumstances under which inspections have been carried out, in or around the Royal Oak Giant Mine in Yellowknife from May 1, 1992 to the present date.

And, again, Mr. Speaker, if I could ask the Minister to provide the reply to the House no later than Monday, September 28, 1992. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Written Question 60-12(2): Activities Of Department Of Safety And Public Services During The Royal Oak Mines Labour Dispute
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 1010

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, petitions. Mr. Patterson.

Item 9: Petitions
Item 9: Petitions

Page 1010

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table petition 7-12(2) signed by 347 students of Inuksuk High School in Iqaluit, and it is prefaced with the following:

This is an open letter to the authorities involved in education and finance and anyone interested in the future leaders of Nunavut. Due to the increased enrolment at Inuksuk High School, student/teacher allocation is greatly out of proportion. Some classes have in excess of forty students. The amount of individual student/teacher attention will decline considerably. As a result, the students in classes with an enrolment over the acceptable limit will not be getting the attention and the quality of education that they deserve. Education is our right, and it should be your priority to ensure that these rights are respected. The following names are those of students at Inuksuk High School who petition that the additional teachers required to lower the student/teacher ratio are allocated to meet our educational needs. Qujannamiik.

Item 9: Petitions
Item 9: Petitions

Page 1010

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 9, petitions. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. Item 11, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Whitford.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1010

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the following document, tabled document 93-12(2). It is the information concerning the closure of Royal Oak Mines.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1010

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 12, tabling of documents. Ms. Mike.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1010

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Qujannamiik. First, Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the following document, tabled document 94-12(2). A copy of a resolution adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations on March 18, 1992 proclaiming that 1993 will be the International Year of Indigenous Peoples. Mr. Speaker, if I may proceed, the second document, tabled document 95-12(2), is a press clipping from the August 3 edition of News/North titled "Inuit May Boycott Native Celebrations". Third, I would also like to table, Tabled Document 96-12(2), a copy of a resolution dated July 28, 1992 adopted by the Inuit Tapirisat of Canada at its 1992 annual general meeting. This resolution deals with the International Year of Indigenous People. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1010

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 12, tabling of documents. Item 13, notices of motion. Mr. Nerysoo.

Motion 35-12(2): Action By The Government Of Canada In The Yellowknife Mine Dispute
Item 13: Notices Of Motion

Page 1010

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Thursday, September 24, 1992 I will move the following motion: I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Baffin Central, that the Legislative Assembly strongly urges the Prime Minister of Canada to direct his Minister of Labour to immediately travel to the Northwest Territories to fulfill his responsibilities on behalf of the people of the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time, I will be seeking unanimous consent to proceed with this motion today.

Motion 35-12(2): Action By The Government Of Canada In The Yellowknife Mine Dispute
Item 13: Notices Of Motion

Page 1010

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 13, notices of motion. Mr. Nerysoo.

Motion 35-12(2): Action By The Government Of Canada In The Yellowknife Mine Dispute
Item 13: Notices Of Motion

Page 1010

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Sorry, Mr. Speaker, I missed out one portion of the resolution that I was supposed to read.

Motion 35-12(2): Action By The Government Of Canada In The Yellowknife Mine Dispute
Item 13: Notices Of Motion

Page 1010

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Proceed, Mr. Nerysoo.

Motion 35-12(2): Action By The Government Of Canada In The Yellowknife Mine Dispute
Item 13: Notices Of Motion

Page 1010

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. And further that the Minister of Labour immediately develop a strategy to resolve the labour dispute at the Royal Oak Mines in Yellowknife.

Motion 35-12(2): Action By The Government Of Canada In The Yellowknife Mine Dispute
Item 13: Notices Of Motion

Page 1010

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 13, notices of motion. Item 14, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 15, motions, motion 34. Mr. Kakfwi.

Motion 34-12(2): Tabled Document "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 15: Motions

Page 1011

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a motion,

WHEREAS the report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality, the Justice House, was tabled June 29, 1992;

AND WHEREAS it would be desirable to discuss this important report;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member from Nunakput, that tabled document 70-12(2) titled The Justice House, Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality be moved into committee of the whole for discussion. Thank you.

Motion 34-12(2): Tabled Document "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 15: Motions

Page 1011

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, motion is order. To the motion, Mr. Kakfwi.

Motion 34-12(2): Tabled Document "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 15: Motions

Page 1011

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, just a comment to advise Members of the House that I have spoken to Katherine Peterson earlier today, the person that was given the task to advise the government, who authored this report, and it was her suggestion that perhaps Members may consider looking at discussing this report at the earliest possible date at the beginning of the November session. Thank you.

Motion 34-12(2): Tabled Document "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 15: Motions

Page 1011

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion, Mr. Kakfwi, you have the right to make a closing. Are you ready for a question? Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Motions, Mr. Nerysoo.

Motion 34-12(2): Tabled Document "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 15: Motions

Page 1011

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to proceed with my motion on the action by the Government of Canada in the Yellowknife mine dispute.

Motion 34-12(2): Tabled Document "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 15: Motions

Page 1011

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Member is asking for the unanimous consent to go ahead with the motion. Are there any nays? There are no nays, Mr. Nerysoo.

Motion 35-12(2): Action By The Government Of Canada In The Yellowknife Mine Dispute
Item 15: Motions

Page 1011

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you colleagues.

WHEREAS the industrial dispute between Royal Oak Mines Limited and the Canadian Association of Smelter and Allied Workers resulted in a strike which began May 23, 1992;

AND WHEREAS the responsibility for private sector labour relations in the Northwest Territories is that of the Government of Canada, and, specifically, the Federal Minister of Labour;

AND WHEREAS the Minister of Labour is responsible, under the Canada Labour Code, for dealing with disputes, not only in the national context, but also for disputes specific to the Northwest Territories;

AND WHEREAS the Legislative Assembly and the Government of the Northwest Territories does not have jurisdiction over private sector labour relations;

AND WHEREAS the Government of the Northwest Territories wrote the Minister of Labour, the Honourable Marcel Danis, on June 16, 1992 urging him to intervene under the Canada Labour Code to settle the dispute;

AND WHEREAS the Minister of Labour, in his response dated June 19, 1992, indicated he was not prepared to intervene at that stage and that he would leave it up to the parties involved to get back together to resolve the dispute;

AND WHEREAS the Minister of Labour must fulfil his responsibilities on behalf of the people of the Northwest Territories;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Baffin Central, that the Legislative Assembly strongly urges the Prime Minister of Canada to direct his Minister of Labour to immediately travel to the Northwest Territories to fulfil his responsibilities on behalf of the people of the Northwest Territories;

AND FURTHER, that the Minister of Labour immediately develop a strategy to resolve the labour dispute at the Royal Oak Mines in Yellowknife.

Motion 35-12(2): Action By The Government Of Canada In The Yellowknife Mine Dispute
Item 15: Motions

Page 1011

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Your motion is order. To the motion, Mr. Nerysoo.

Motion 35-12(2): Action By The Government Of Canada In The Yellowknife Mine Dispute
Item 15: Motions

Page 1011

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would wish to open debate by commenting first that this motion is being brought forward at the request of the Ordinary Members' Caucus. It deals with something about which ordinary Members have strong feelings, and I know that these feelings are shared by people throughout the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, I believe that this is a very important motion, and it calls on the Prime Minister of Canada, the Honourable Brian Mulroney, to ensure that the federal Minister of Labour attends to a labour dispute that has caused the people of Yellowknife, and all northerners, considerable strife over the past seven months. By this motion, honourable Members of this House will be raising their collective voices in support of the Government Leader's request for federal attention. This is something that is very necessary, as this House realizes responsibility for private sector labour relations lies with the federal government, and not with the Government of the Northwest Territories.

We also know that under the Canada Labour Code the Minister of Labour, the Honourable Marcel Danis, is responsible for dealing with disputes that may arise in the Northwest Territories. Within this current framework, for a distribution of powers and responsibilities in the labour sector, we are aware that our Cabinet, and indeed this whole House, has been unable to take direct action relative to any of the statutory provisions that are normally used to resolve serious labour disputes. The Government of the Northwest Territories, and the individuals in this House, have attempted on several occasions to urge the federal government Minister to take action. These requests have not been complied with. The federal Minister of Labour has not, to date, fulfilled the responsibilities he is granted under the laws of Canada, on behalf of the people of the Northwest Territories.

We cannot wait any longer, and we cannot engage in extensive political give and take. It is essential for the federal government to act, and we are calling upon the Prime Minister of Canada to do so, and it is essential that he takes these actions now. He must direct his Minister of Labour to travel to the Northwest Territories immediately, and when Marcel Danis arrives, he must immediately undertake to develop a strategy to resolve the labour dispute at the Royal Oak Mines in Yellowknife.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that this motion will strengthen our territorial position in this matter, and I would urge all honourable Members to support the motion before the House this afternoon. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 35-12(2): Action By The Government Of Canada In The Yellowknife Mine Dispute
Item 15: Motions

Page 1012

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion. Are you ready for the question, Mr. Nerysoo? Member for Thebacha, to the motion.

Motion 35-12(2): Action By The Government Of Canada In The Yellowknife Mine Dispute
Item 15: Motions

Page 1012

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, we were going to request a recorded vote, please.

Motion 35-12(2): Action By The Government Of Canada In The Yellowknife Mine Dispute
Item 15: Motions

Page 1012

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

A recorded vote is requested. Are you ready for the question? Question has been called. All those in favour, please stand.

Recorded Vote

Motion 35-12(2): Action By The Government Of Canada In The Yellowknife Mine Dispute
Item 15: Motions

Page 1012

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Nerysoo, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Mr. Gargan, Mr. Zoe, Mr. Koe, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Todd, Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Arvaluk, Mr. Pollard, Ms. Cournoyea, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Morin, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Patterson, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Dent, and Ms. Mike.

Motion 35-12(2): Action By The Government Of Canada In The Yellowknife Mine Dispute
Item 15: Motions

Page 1012

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

All those against, please stand. All those abstaining? All those in favour is 19; all those against is zero; all those abstaining is zero. Motion is carried unanimously.

---Carried

Thank you. Item 15, motions. Item 16, first reading of bills. Item 17, second reading of bills. Item 18, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters, tabled document 9-12(2), tabled document 10-12(2), tabled document 61-12(2), motion 6, committee report 10-12(2), committee report 17-12(2), committee report 18-12(2), bill 9, bill 31, bill 33, Member's statement 82-12(2). Mr. Nerysoo in the Chair.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. If I could call the committee to order. Members will recall that we were dealing with committee report 17-12(2), and bill 33. What is the wish of the committee? Is it the wish of the committee that we continue? Mr. Pollard.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

John Pollard Hay River

That is a good idea, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you very much. There is agreement to proceed with those two documents. We were still on general comments and we were dealing with the Department of Education. In order to give people an opportunity to get their thoughts together, I will take a break.

---Applause

---SHORT RECESS

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Can I call the committee to order? Dealing with the Department of Education. Mr. Minister, do you wish to have witnesses in the committee?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Yes please, I would like to call on my witnesses, and myself, to the witness table.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you, is it agreed that witnesses be invited into the committee?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Agreed. Sergeant-at-Arms, could you escort the witnesses, please?

I call the committee to order. While I do not intend to intervene in the matter of general comments, I would encourage Members to deal with matters that are specific to the department heads, if we get into that. My own general policy is that I think that the Members can deal generally with those issues. I wanted to make that note.

On general comments, Mr. Zoe.

Department of Education

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, on Friday, I raised a number of concerns pertaining to the Department of Education. We were notified at that time, that an accident had taken place and we adjourned for the day.

Had the Minister concluded in responding to the concerns that I had raised on Friday?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, I was not clear on the question. Could the Member repeat his question? Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Zoe, could you ask the questions that you are referring to again, for the clarification for the Minister. Mr. Zoe.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, on Friday the Minister was responding to one of the questions that I had raised in regard to the Northern Leaders Program, and also on the issue of the T.E.P. program. We were interrupted, when we heard the news of the accident which occurred at the mine. I was not sure if the Minister had concluded his remarks at that time. I am just asking if he was finished with his concluding remarks on Friday, to the questions that I had raised?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, yes, I had concluded my remarks, after we recessed.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Sorry, Mr. Minister. Are there any other general comments? Mr. Zoe.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

I will not continue to pursue this, Mr. Chairman. I will let other Members speak to that issue, but another concern that I had in regards to this department, was the curriculum development for the Dene languages, particularly the Dogrib.

Mr. Chairman, I understand that the department has a number of training centres throughout the territories. For instance, I have one in my region, in Rae-Edzo, and I understand that they are working towards developing a curriculum. Could the Minister give us an update on what the department is doing on curriculum development for Dene languages in education?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1012

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Specifically on the Dene Kede kindergarten to grade six piloting, in September of 1992, on the full implementation in

September of 1993, what we are doing in this case is trying it out, and if the reports from those communities and divisional boards are successful, and they say that this is a good curriculum, then we will have a full implementation in September of 1993. Also, on the Dene Kede from grade 7 to 12, planning for development is not scheduled for 1992-93. That is only on Dene curriculum development, not including other curriculum development that we have in Inuktitut, or the social studies format.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Zoe, general comments.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, I am having a difficult time with the Dene languages. I know that we have amalgamated the Department of Culture and Communications with the Department of Education. Hopefully they will become closer together. Culture and Communications also administers the service delivery for aboriginal languages, interpreting, and translating services.

One of the questions that I wanted to ask was, years ago when they started funding this program, there were certain initiatives that were being undertaken by the department, and by Culture and Communications. For instance, there was a dictionary that came out in the Slavey language, and at that time I understood that the government was working on developing the other aboriginal languages. For instance, the Dogrib language, where they would put together a dictionary, and also start developing a curriculum in the Dogrib language.

Another thing that they were working on was to standardize the Dene languages. Now, I would like to ask how far are they in standardizing all of these Dene languages?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, I understand that after we have dealt with Arctic College, we will also be going into culture on Saturday, and the department can we deal with that at the time, so that we can deal with it more in detail with the different witnesses. Mr. Chairman.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments, Mr. Zoe.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, the Minister indicated that they have a curriculum developed in various aboriginal languages that are being taught in the schools. You mentioned kindergarten to grade six, and then grade 7 to whatever. Is it being taught in schools now, or is the department working on developing the curriculum?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Again, I just want to remind my honourable colleagues that, while it is not the intention of the Chair to interfere in general comments, that those particular questions, the questions that have been raised, are under a specific matter in the department, namely schools and curriculum, and language development curriculum. It is not my intention to intervene, but I do ask the honourable Members at least to be aware of that, and that the rules generally say that no Member should speak more than ten minutes on general issues.

So, I just wanted to remind Members. It is not my intention at this particular juncture to intervene, but I just wanted to remind Members that the rules are there for the purposes of all Members. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the specific question regarding the Dogrib languages being taught, yes, under pilot as I mentioned, they started this month in the kindergarten to grade six in Rae-Edzo. That is one pilot project that we are doing now, and if that is successful, if the divisional board in that area, the Sahtu area, or the Dogrib area are happy with it, then it will be in full implementation next year.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Any other general comments? Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, during the last general comments, I spoke about two variant cultures, and I was using some examples. In Saskatchewan, they do have separate schools for people of different religious beliefs, the Hutterites, for example, have their own kind of school that is not influenced by the outside world. In Quebec, for example, you do have English and French schools, and in Ontario, they have what they call "survival schools" that have been implemented by enlarged cities, where there are a large number of aboriginal people, and the native organizations have tried to run their own schools.

One thing that the Minister indicated, Mr. Chairman, with regard to his opening remarks, is that he said a plan would be developed for the delivery of educational services to people holding rights under Section 23, under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I would like the Minister to explain what exactly this means? Can I get clarification on that? I am not sure, Mr. Chairman, but in 1984, we tried to introduce the Human Rights Code, but because of the aboriginal collective rights of people, the government did not proceed.

As for the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, it does talk about individual rights as opposed to collective rights, and I am just wondering if you can clarify what you meant by that in your opening statement?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This Section 23 deals with the French language rights, and for more detail, I would like to have Mr. Gerein fill you in. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Gerein.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

Gerein

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My answer is quite short. It is to deal with French first language schooling. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments, Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1013

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The only other question that I have is with regard to the direction that the nation is going in. One of it is that eventually, and I would hope that definitely, the Canadian Constitution is ratified then it is going to be a whole new development with regard to the inherent right to aboriginal self-government. In the Minister's opening address, he does not mention anything about that, except for that devolution that is going to take place and the communities are going to be taking on those roles.

When he refers to the communities taking on those roles, are we talking that the communities will receive funding and resources to run their programs? Communities that are interested in running programs will receive ongoing training and support? Smaller communities that are interested in running their own programs may require additional training and support and the flexibilities there? When you refer to communities, you are referring to the communities at large, or are you referring specifically to local educational authorities, or divisional boards of education?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1014

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1014

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Although my answer was Section 23 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, it deals with the French language rights. However, under the present N.W.T. Education Act, aboriginal languages curriculum development can be initiated, and also can be taught in the schools. We are now compiling, getting information, and putting together a school strategy that will eventually, as I stated, be incorporated into the Education Act Amendment, which we are proposing, to strengthen the cultural programs in the school system.

This will happen as soon as the numbers warrant, especially for aboriginal people requesting cultural programs, and if there are no big or small community difference, where there is a school attended by a majority of aboriginal people.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1014

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments, Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1014

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

So, for clarification then, from the statements made with regard to the future of future governments, when you are referring to communities, in this case, you are referring to the local education authorities, the school boards, divisional boards, or the school itself, as opposed to the community at large?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1014

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1014

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, I may differ from previous Ministers, I do not think so though. When we are discussing education, especially in the area of aboriginal languages development, usage of it in the schools, we are not only talking to the divisional boards or C.E.C.s, and community education councils, we are also talking to Dene bands, the hamlet councils, and the community requirements. What are the wishes of the whole population in general? We are not restricting any organization that we will be dealing with. We are dealing with anyone. In fact, a week and a half ago, when I was in Inuvik, I had a very good meeting with the Gwich'in Tribal Council, discussing what would be the most appropriate way of developing a curriculum and delivering these aboriginal language programs in Fort McPherson, Arctic Red River, Inuvik and Aklavik. These are not narrow approaches when we are dealing with these aboriginal language developments.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1014

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Gargan, general comments.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1014

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the overview of the objectives of the government, the government did say that they would participate in the National School Achievement Indicators Program.

I would like to ask the Minister, what has been happening in that area? Have we got a program in place now that could be utilized by the schools to determine grade levels? What are the initiatives taken by this government, as compared to other provinces or territories?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1014

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1014

James Arvaluk Aivilik

As I said, Mr. Chairman, the Department of Education is a full participant in this program.

We are not saying that everyone will be judged on this basis, if a student is able, or not able, or if a teacher is able, or not able. What we are saying is that there is a concern of the citizens of the N.W.T. in general, including the Members of this House, of whether we are delivering high standards of education in the communities. There has been some complaints directed to the department that some of the high school extension, or grade nine, when they go to the larger centres, like Yellowknife or Iqaluit, they cannot compete with students of the same grade.

This indicator will tell us where we are failing as a department, as educators, as opposed to the students themselves, or the teachers themselves.

What are the guidelines, requirements, to have the same level of educational quality or standard taught in every one of the schools across the territories? This is what we are trying to find out, or measure. This is not judgement on the students, rather, it is a judgement on the department and the divisional boards, so that no student suffers just because he is in a small community. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1014

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1014

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

That is the difficulty I have, Mr. Chairman, in regard to this judgement of being able or not being able, by the students, as well as by the teachers. There is a broad flexibility with regard to how a student is being determined to advance or not advance. To question the ability of the teachers to deliver those programs, so that students do advance.

That is my difficulty. I have seen it now, and it is different from what I have seen when I went to school. It is very open and it is questionable, and it is the question that I am having problems with. Mr. Chairman, we do not really have anything to determine whether or not, if you have a common test for all students, then they know what their level is within that classroom environment. I have much difficulty with that. I have been trying to address it now for the last few years. I do not think I am getting anywhere with it. I would like to know whether or not, if you are not using judgement calls to determine if a student should advance or not, or whether a teacher is capable or not, then what the hell are you using? Excuse my language.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1014

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1014

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think I understand, if Mr. Gargan's opinion is the same as mine, that there seems to be too much discretion on the part of the teacher as to how that person or student would be tested, or what course and how it is to be taught.

I understand that the concern is that in different areas of the territories, eastern Arctic, Beaufort, Sahtu, South Slave, etc., that their requirements for cultural programs are not the same as anywhere else. In fact, it is only in the last 20 years that the transition of this educational program has taken place. When the residents of the N.W.T. demanded that we no longer follow the federal policy in direction of our education, we wanted to develop our own curriculum, our own method, and our own way of doing things in the communities, especially when it came to cultural programs. I think it would be interesting if anyone takes time to go out to the schools, talk to the principals and the teachers on how the students are evaluated in courses in each semester. Some people will agree that this is the best method they could come up with, because it is very, very difficult to make general departmental exams other than math, social studies, and other common curriculum that is imported from Alberta, or created for the territories uniformly.

If this is the wish of this House to direct the educational direction for the N.W.T. through the motion as a House directive, then we can do that. I do not know how many divisional boards, and parents, would understand the Members of this House not being far sighted enough to see the different boards, or geographically cultural differences in the whole N.W.T., depending on where you are from. If you are from Baffin, then they would not want to give up what they have developed so far in the Inuktitut curriculum. If they are in the Dogrib area, I do not know why they would want to go back, step backwards to give room for uniform departmental type exams or evaluations. This will require a lot of discussion on the part of everyone to find out what we do not know. The Department of Education does not know which is best, so far. That is why we are developing this school strategy, to get input from everyone whether the uniform exam, and taking the same course throughout the territories, is relevant, or outdated. The students are at stake, we have got to determine on behalf of the students, the best way of doing it. We will need that input.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1015

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

General comments. Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1015

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, there could be a motion in this House giving a directive to the government to move in a certain direction in regard to education. There is still a situation in which the aboriginal people are going to be faced with, which does not give this government much choice in regard to the direction they are taking concerning their own language and culture, and we are not looking in that direction at all. We are still under the impression, that as a government, we know what is best for the community, and we deliver them in appropriate ways. Education, with regard to the planning of programs in the school, also includes culture. Section 19, of one of the acts, recognizes ethnic and cultural variations. What I am saying is that eventually, Mr. Chairman, if the aboriginal people said, "look we tried your education system up to now, we would like to try our own way, and it is our inherent right to do that." The government cannot stop aboriginal people from doing that, but we are not looking in that direction right now. We were hoping that something like this would not be raised, but I think it will be raised, and the more we try not to address it, the more it is going to be determined against aboriginal people. They are going to say that under the new Canadian Constitution, we could ask for it, and I do not think there is too much we could do about it.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1015

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments, Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1015

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

In your opening statement today, you did indicate that you are going to do away with the leadership program. I know that some monies are going to be eliminated under the Leadership Training Program. I only have one Member of my constituency that is under the program itself, but what is going to happen to that student, and is that effective April 1? Will he be a part of that program then, or are students still under the program going to be under the program until they are finished with it?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1015

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1015

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I will honour the previous Minister, under the government's directive, in so far as to say that the students who are already enrolled in that program will complete that program. We are simply saying that we recommended to the F.M.B., to eliminate that for new applicants. There will be no new money for new applicants, however, those who have not yet completed, or are still continuing, still enrolled, will continue to get funding under that program. However, as I said on Friday, those who have completed university who are in the general studies, and there is no actual program set for those particular students who are in post-secondary, in fact, none of them have taken that specifically geared towards land claims. They are taking the same courses as those who are receiving, under the Student Financial Assistance Program, exactly the same thing. The only thing that is different is that they have higher allowances. We have not seen anywhere that we provide or they enrol in a special course on the land claims, unless if specific direction is given by this House. For the preparation of the land claims, they are to be given instruction, at least an agreement, that if they are interested in law, these are the kinds of courses that they should be taking, because they are being given financial assistance, so that they will become workers on the land claims agreement. I was not able to turn around and submit to the F.M.B., and say this is a good program because this and this, but it is a good program, and we still can do the same program, except we will be able to enrol more students with less money. That is what we are saying. I have no other argument, it is a good program, but it is very expensive and also there is other alternative funding available under the Student Financial Assistance Program for the same people.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments, Mr. Ningark.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you Mr. Minister for being able to speak to you. I think you realize in Greenland, the Inuit people over there have three languages, the majority of them. I went to Copenhagen quite some time ago, and I was really surprised that the Inuit people from Greenland can speak three languages. I think their Inuktitut language is called Kalasiit.

They can also speak Danish and English. Perhaps, if it is possible, you could meet with the Minister of Education in Greenland, to consult with him, as to how they have their education system set from the beginning, from kindergarten to grade 12. Perhaps you could meet with that Minister of Education in Greenland, and ask him how their home rule government has their education system set for teaching their children over there?

Inuktitut language courses in the schools, and in the communities especially, is very much pushed, not just the language of the Inuit, but the culture of the Inuit, is also pushed by the parents in the communities to be taught to their children, such as caribou hunting, tanning hides and for the girls to be able to learn how to sew and to learn how to do different kinds of things for skin cleaning.

We are always going to be living in the north, in Nunavut, and as long as the sun does not come to our northland I know that this place will always be cold and the teaching of the culture and the language of our aboriginal people should be carried out. I am talking about, for example, learning about different kinds of textures of snow, snow is not just the only word in our Inuktitut language, when there are different textures. Say, for example in the springtime, or in the fall or in the middle of winter, it is a different texture, and it is called a different way in Inuktitut. Also, the same for the texture of the ice in different seasons, is called differently in Inuktitut.

Mr. Minister, I would like to tell you that the Inuit people in my constituency and in other constituencies in the Inuit land would like to continue to learn their language and their culture. Perhaps you could visit the Minister of Education in Greenland and consult with him in regards to how they have their school system set up in Greenland. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Did you have any general comments to make?

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The people of Greenland, like you said, when they go to school they learn three languages. First they learn at home in their mother tongue, then Danish and English, and if they want to learn a different language when they go to university, they learn to speak French and German. I know that they have had their education system for over 200 years that way.

I am not really sure, maybe I am mistaken, I know that they started their Inuktitut as their first language in school, I cannot really remember what year it was. They did some studies quite some time ago, I think it was at the beginning of the Baffin Divisional Board of Education visited the Greenland communities to find out their education system and I think that the Department of Education from the G.N.W.T. visited Greenland also to find out how their education system runs in Greenland, because the Greenland education system is getting better and better all of the time and they also have a place where they teach their educators.

So, we will be visiting with them and consulting with them as to how their education system is operating, and they will also visit the N.W.T. to find out how we have our education system set up in regards to their first language in school. So, we will always be consulting with each other, Mr. Chairman, such as sharing ideas in regards to educational systems, they will study ours and we will study theirs. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Ningark.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is my last comment. It is still in regard to languages, there are different dialects in the Baffin, Kitikmeot, and Keewatin, they all have different dialects. Even though the communities are very close to each other, they are slightly different in dialect, although they understand each other. As well, the Quebec dialect is quite different although we can understand them.

The businesses of languages will probably always continue to develop or will always be standardized. It is very good to have different dialects. Say, for instance the Natilikmiot dialect is different and Amittuq dialect is very different, and the Quebec dialect is very different. They are very musical, and they should not be standardized, because that is just their way of doing things. What do you think should be done in regards to standardizing, Mr. Minister?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, there are different dialects in Inuktitut and they are very valuable dialects. I do not think this government, especially the Department of Education, is in support of standardizing Inuktitut languages. I do not think anyone would be in support of standardizing Inuktitut languages.

We are not talking about standardizing, nor do we want to standardize their writing system, or the different methods of speaking dialects. I, for one, support that the more dialectic languages you have, the more quality of education you will have. You will be able to go to different communities and different regions, and you will be able to speak those languages.

It is not the aim of this department to standardize dialects. For example, if there is a curriculum developed in Inuktitut in the Baffin, that can be taken in Kitikmeot. The Kitikmeot children will learn the different dialects spoken elsewhere. The Kitikmeot could produce one, and learning materials can be used in the Kitikmeot. That way, you will be able to understand the languages, in all regions, because the languages are basically in the same circumpolar area. It is only the different dialectic ways of speaking, like they do in the English speaking world.

If you go to England, Scotland, or Australia, you will see the dialectic differences. Even in North America, you have mature and mature. These are very good things to learn from one area to the other. My answer is, Mr. Chairman, very simply, no, we will not be pursuing to standardize dialectic systems in Inuktitut. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Koe.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. I have several comments and concerns relating to the general state of education. Many of my colleagues have talked about, or mentioned, the quality of education, the quality of graduates, and what are we producing today in our schools.

We are very concerned about high enrolments and enrolment numbers, trying to push them from kindergarten to grade 12, and onto bigger and better things. The question is, are we producing quality graduates, however you define that? Basically, there is an indication of a problem when we see teachers, who are teaching in our high schools, continuing to send their own children south for high school. That always makes me wonder why that is happening and what the problem is. It is an indication that there may be a problem. I just make that observation.

I think back to when I was young, a few years ago, a couple of years ago, the big difference when I was in high school in 1963-65, the high school classes of mine produced, as my colleague Mr. Todd says, the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker. There was not a lot of us in S.A.M.S. high school, in those days, and not all of us went straight from high school onto bigger and better things. There was obviously, for many of us, a period of growth adjustment, but we did produce a doctor, lawyers, an accountant, an engineer, several pilots, an electrician, a plumber, and several teachers. It always makes me wonder why then, what happened in that period, in the early 1960s, or mid 1960s, and you compare that group of people, some 20 to 25 people, to people who are coming out of the school systems now. I have asked many experts, and I never got any answers. We talk about discipline, most of us went through the hostel system. Discipline was in the high school then, and in the hostel, as compared to what is happening now. I do not know what the answer is, this is just an observation. There is something amiss in trying to match what is happening with the students these days.

Another concern, or issue, that has been raised more than once, and I have raised it, is the level of aboriginal teachers, especially in high schools. I think this year is the first time in the Inuvik High School that they have an aboriginal teacher, and she has been hired to teach the Gwich'in language. To put my plug in for the T.E.P., Teacher Education Program, that the Delta region has been pushing for, is sadly needed, as we have the lowest number of aboriginal teachers compared to other regions in the territories. I think that a program such as this will help balance the numbers in terms of aboriginal teachers.

Another concern or problem, I have raised, and have noted in a paper this week, is the current problems of high enrolments in high schools. It makes we wonder, again, what kind of crystal ball your experts are looking at. How do you come up with predictions, how can we be so wrong from one year to the another?

I know across the territories grade 10 has just been introduced and that is part of the problem. You would assume in this day and age of computers and high tech and information, that some kind of survey would have been done within our communities, to find out how many drop outs would want to come back to school. It does not make sense to me, why come September 1, our classrooms are bursting at the seams, we do not have enough teachers, and we have to go for supps, and play catch up for two or three months. Something is wrong with the way the departmental experts do their work.

I will leave it at those three, I have more, but I will get some comments from the Minister, and his staff.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Any comments, Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Just a very brief one, Mr. Chairman. In terms of those teachers who are still sending their children to schools down south, I have talked to several of them, and they are basically personal choices. Some of them say that the quality of education is not necessarily how the subject is being taught, rather some of them complain that there is no music, no arts, no French language, no Spanish language lessons, and more courses that they would like to see in schools, so they send their students to the south.

Then again, the problem with the Department of Education here is that we are barely keeping up with building schools when the population growth is so high, and can we afford to get music, arts, French and Spanish languages, and everything else to go with it, with our present facilities? That is one question that we, as a Legislative Assembly, will have to answer.

With the T.E.P. programs, the school strategy that we are working on, that we are including, for the students to be teachers of the middle and high school area. We have two Inuit that I know of that have a Masters in Education, and we are pushing towards that, that is part of the school strategy. Our program is that we will get them going in the T.E.P. program, especially those who have grade 12, then, once they have gone through that, they can actually enter into the degree program in education. Then they would able to qualify, if they take specialized courses as high school teachers.

There are hard subjects that you are mentioning, in regards to why we were putting out more quality students in the early 60's, than we are today. We have hunted through this for that answer. I agree with you that it is very, very difficult. Some people suggest that at that time, there were less things to see, the world was not as complex. There was more imagination, more specific subjects taken as strict, standard, and compulsory. Right now, with more liberal education, there are so many varieties of courses that you can take as part of your credit, and the television is there, and everything else around youth today is a multitude of new things that make the students less quality students. These are some of the suggestions, but real answers nobody really knows why that has happened.

(Translation) I think I will leave it at that for now, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments, Mr. Koe.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Yes, we did have industrial arts, and home economics, music, and arts, and even though many of us did not like music or art, it was there, and we took it. That brings up my next comment, and subject, about the change in policy in payments to divisional boards. I am sure you are aware, that many of the divisional boards were receiving quarterly contributions, and in the months they were not expending the money, they were making some interest, and using that money to fund a lot of what we are talking about, these extra-curricular programs. I am concerned about this, and the boards are concerned about it, and how are they going to make up the difference in the funding that they used to receive and earn to what they get today? I know, especially in my area, a lot of the money was used for language, arts, and cultural programs they cannot fund with their current budgets.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am aware of the impact. In fact, I think I was one of the leading Members who was arguing why they have switched to a monthly payment schedule on school boards. Then again, I can understand and appreciate that the government has been required to implement a monthly schedule for school boards for at least interim appropriation period. Now, the government making this decision was faced with a cash deficiency of its own. We cannot simply afford to make large contributions, payments, before they are needed. It is not to punish the divisional boards by any means. However, Mr. Chairman, the government has committed to examine funding arrangements, and work with boards to determine the best means of financing school programs. We are working on it now, an initial recommendation for changes to school financing should be ready by the end of October. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments, Mr. Koe.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Another area of concern which I have raised with the department is the issue of educating special needs people, and the cases that I raised earlier in my political career was an instance where an individual had turned 18, and the Department of Education would not accept her in the high school to continue the program that she was on. It did not make sense, and I raised the issue with the departments that were involved, Education, Social Services, and Health, and I got the football thrown around from one department to the other. The agencies involved were still concerned, but you still have an individual that, in my opinion and many other people's opinion, was entitled to go to school. I am just raising it as a general issue as there does not seem to be a definite program, or a definite policy, in dealing with special needs people, that there should be better coordination between the departments, Education, Health, Social Services, they are all involved in looking after and taking into consideration the needs of these individuals, and how to integrate them into the public school system, and the community that they live in.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1017

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments, Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree with Mr. Koe, and we too, are interested in this with the tri-ministry of Social Services, Education and Health.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Just to remind Members again, this is general comments, and when we get to specific items, we will deal with the specific questions. However, Mr. Koe, general comments. Also, just to remind honourable Members, the rules do indicate that there is a limitation on the amount of time, and that is ten minutes, so we have been sort of over-extending that, but I just wanted you to be aware of that. Mr. Koe.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Fred Koe Inuvik

I have one more and, again, it concerns programs, educational streams or programs that I know the Minister is aware of, because it was brought up at several of the meetings with the groups from the Delta, and it concerns the Senior Practical Program that is carried out in high school in Inuvik. There are several streams, on one stream, a student can take his Senior Matriculation Program, and one is what we call general. The third one that has been created, is the Senior Practical Program, and the leaders in my area are concerned about what the program is, why students were put into this program. They are concerned about the quality of the program, the transferability, the credits that they earn in that program, and I can expand that to some of the concerns I have with the general program, how students are very quickly coming out of grade nine into grade ten, deemed not capable of taking senior matriculation courses, put into a general program, and then they graduate and they find themselves not able to proceed to university or college.

I am just wondering about the quick determination of students, or the assessment of students, and why they are very quickly put into programs that they do not have much future in, unless they want to become a tradesman or something, and there is a good future in that. I am not downgrading that, but you know the issue, and I want to raise it aloud.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1018

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

General comments. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we had a good discussion in Inuvik on the Community Occupational Programs and S.P.P. Naturally, we want everyone to be enrolled in the academic programs, but there are some areas that a student feels he cannot handle, and then we have school counselling, the parents, and the teachers, and they may be put in the general program.

The Department of Education developed two alternate programs, the Community Occupational Program, and the Senior Practical Program designed for students who are at least 15 years of age, who are more likely to succeed in a cooperative work station school setting, rather than the general, or the secondary school certificate setting.

In fact, we are reviewing these as part of the school strategy to determine whether S.P.P. should be, in fact, in the school system. Some people feel that has been used as a scapegoat, some people feel that this is unnecessary. So, depending on how much feedback we get out of that one, we may even consider it not necessary as part of the school system. So, Mr. Chairman, it is part of the school strategy that we are doing. We will be taking that notice into consideration very seriously. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Pudlat.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Mr. Chairman, I shall try to stay within my ten minute time slot. My comments should be brief. Now, we are all aware that we are working hard, and we are all under pressure. I have been working hard in this field for many years, since 1985, when the birth of the Baffin Divisional Board of Education occurred. We had the jurisdiction of running schools.

We were educated on how to properly operate the school board, this occurred in 1985. We are all working hard. We are aware that finances are hard to come by, but we keep saying that the financing that was provided quarterly is something that we bring up many times, especially myself. Often we are told that they will try to come up with the best way of financing the school boards but there are many curriculum materials to be provided, and there are many different subjects to be studied that still have to be implemented.

Since that is the case, and since we are faced with budget cutbacks, it is going to become very difficult to provide quality education because we are still at a shortfall. Education is something that we are working hard towards, as parents, especially as fathers, because we used to be taught, but we do not teach life skills any more. Now adays, we have handed over our children to the education system, and it has caused stress on both parts.

Financial restraints are a reality. Although there are many subjects that we should be teaching, we are unable to. The quarterly funding that was provided previously is something that should be returned. We miss that arrangement, because the funding was properly used for developing curriculum and for providing casual employment, among other things.

I realize that we always get a response whereby they will come up with the best possible solution between the governments and the school boards. So, during question period, I will be posing more questions to that effect. We are all aware, here in the territories, which subjects are to be taught, and which subjects are not being taught. Slowly, we are expanding our studies and subjects, including more studies in Inuktitut, which was recently begun.

Since the Inuktitut curriculum was started we started, using money that was through interest. It seemed like we were off to a good start, but once again, it is difficult to predict that this will continue at the rate that it first started. I do not want to say too much, I will probably have other questions, this was just my general comment, it was not a question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1018

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I can only respond in the same manner as I responded to Mr. Koe. We are all aware of financial restraints, because there is less interest. You cannot grow interest with the financing formula as it is. There was money being circulated through interest, which was put into producing Inuktitut teaching curriculum in the Baffin Divisional Board system.

As I said to Mr. Koe earlier, the government is presently looking at ways to provide funding for school boards to provide their curriculum. I can respond in the same way, we will come up with the best possible solution, through talking with the government and the school boards. We are going to figure out a way to provide funding to produce better curriculum for different school boards, be it in the Baffin or in other regions.

We want to review this, we want to come up with a better financing formula prior to the end of October, as I stated.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Lewis.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be brief. I have had many chances to make general comments, and I just want to make one. It has to do with the problems of evaluation. We spend an awful lot of money on education and have done for a long time, and the sums get bigger and bigger, yet we are never able to convince the public that we are achieving results, as a result of this large amount of money that we spend. It is a very difficult problem, I do not want to under estimate it, Mr. Chairman. It has plagued people for a long, long time, as to how you really show that the money you spend is getting results, that young people are getting a good education.

I have thought about it for a long, long time, and I am going to make just one suggestion. The problem that we have in this political arena, we always want to do things fast, we want to get results, and show how well we are doing. Sometimes, you think things are cooked up, and you are not convinced about the story that you are hearing.

I have noticed, over the years, that medical research is so much better. We evaluate medical items so much better than we evaluate education items. They seem to have a grip on how to evaluate, and how to get better results somehow. My suspicion is that they are able to do it, because they can take a longer view.

This profession seems to have gotten a handle on looking at what we call, longitudinal things, where you say, let us look at a bunch of people, take them through a long period of time, and see exactly what happens to them.

In politics, of course, you are always aware that you are going to be there a very short time, and you take the short view, you do not take the long view.

It is the same thing with things like water quality. You have to have a base line to start from. Maybe what is needed is, that we start one of these longitudinal things, take a bunch of people, try to stay in touch with them, see what they are doing, try to interview them from time to time, and let them remember the things that helped them from their schooling, or the problems that they had. Maybe if we get this bunch of people, and we keep in touch with them, we can learn an awful lot from their life experience.

As politicians we tend to think, we have to think short term, we cannot, that is into never never land, it does not matter that much. The medical people have done it. There are all kinds of interesting things that the medical people have done, where they have followed people for 25 years. These people have started with them and we have learned an awful lot, because it is very difficult to separate what schooling does from all the other things that influence people. It is one of the toughest things. I know that to protect ourselves, very often, we say, well, we are only going to test kids on what that teacher was supposed to have taught them in that class. In that way you can make it much simpler. It is so short term, it helps you over the hump, I suppose, while you have this or that Minister. I think that we should take a long view and maybe we should have a bit of courage and say well, perhaps we should begin some kind of program, or study to follow people through a longer period of time, so that future generations can learn from what we have done. All that information is lost, it is all gone, and all we have is antidote, like Mr. Koe's, "I remember when things were so good." We could learn from it, if we were to do something like that. Just a suggestion. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you, very much. General comments. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I suppose like every other Member, I have opinions and concerns about education. It is for our children, and for our future. Some of the concerns, or opinions, that I have are related to some of the concerns that were raised by other Members.

Such as the one that Mr. Koe just mentioned, when you have teachers and principals who are sending their school age kids down south. That does not give you much confidence in the system that we have in the Northwest Territories.

Other areas that I had been concerned about, and I have talked to a number of people about, is the cultural programs. I feel that our culture is a way of life, and not a subject in the classroom. I feel much the same way as Mr. Gargan does, in that the cultural programs are programs that should be run by that culture. When you say the community, you can say the community, for example Baker Lake. When you are talking about cultural programs being run by the community, we are also saying that there is some kabloonas, or other cultures, that are in those education councils, and they are determining the time table, or the subject matter of the cultural program. In that way, we lose out in not being able to pass on, or teach the culture to the young people. Again, Inuit did not learn, or live in buildings, so I do not see how we could study our culture in a building. It is taught out on the land, that is where we lived, and that is where it should be taught, out on the land. How you can fit that into a school program? It is tough, when you are dealing with a school. There are timetables that are followed.

Another area that I have thought about a lot is discipline, or parental involvement in the school. I believe there is a parent in the school program, or something of this nature, and that is one question that I would like to ask of the Minister, is that program still going, and is it working with several different communities? How effective it has been? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1019

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, that is still in existence. That is in existence in both schools, and Arctic College. The elders in the community can be asked if they can do that, or the classroom assistants, and the Teacher Education Program graduates usually know who the elders are. They would ask them in, and ask them to tell their students a story for a half hour or 20 minutes. If the story is not that long, then children can ask questions, like what that words means, etc. Yes, that is still practised.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1019

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Arngna'naaq, general comments.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1019

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that an effective parental involvement program is needed. In my opinion, maybe in every community. We, as politicians, could make all kinds of recommendations, to have the best resources, to have the best teachers, and so on, but if we do not have students in those schools, then all our recommendations and best resources are useless.

There should be a way to get parents involved in the school and also to encourage them to bring their children to school. I understand that there is a higher percentage than there should be, of students who do not attend school at all. They may come in once a month, or something, but other than that, that is all there is. The other question would be if there is anything the department is able or willing to do in that area. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1019

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1019

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The parenting program can easily be initiated by the community, especially through the Arctic College evening courses. If there is no Arctic College, then there is student counselling that also involves parents that can advise, and guide, especially the young parents. Also, this can be done as part of the cultural program about parenting that the community can initiate on their own by using the elders in the community, how the parenting used to be done. I cannot blame any young people who are trying to raise their children and are having a hard time, because they have never been really taught how to

parent in the hostel system. How can you blame them for not being able to parent properly? These kinds of initiations can be done in the community. I do not think that is the Department of Education's responsibility, rather, as a society, that type can be easily initiated in the community. Certainly, the principals and teachers would be very happy to participate in child psychology, if it deals with what they know from their own professional training. Thank you.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1020

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1020

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have a couple more questions. One area in which we have a lot of problems in our communities, are those that have a high number of people who are on social assistance. Sometimes they are not able to budget for themselves to be able to feed their children all the time, or in between social assistance cheques. I am just wondering, is there a program in the Department of Education where breakfast, or a snack program could be utilized? From what I understand, a student, or a young person, may not function in the best learning environment if they have not been fed. I think that this is the case in a lot of the small communities, where you have children who wake up in the morning, have a glass of water, and then go to school. Is there any such programs in this department? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1020

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1020

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No, the department has no breakfast or lunch programs in the schools, other than residential schools. However, the community education councils, or societies in each community, can initiate such a program with their contributions from the divisional boards, but the Department of Education has no program for that.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1020

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1020

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Just one more item, Mr. Chairman, in the area of the Teacher Education Program. The present admission requirement for the Eastern Arctic Teacher Education Program is grade 12, or grade ten level if they are a classroom assistant, or have been a classroom assistant for two years. In my opinion, regardless of whether a person has been in the school for the past two years, it does not necessarily give that person the academic background by being in the school to be able to say that they have reached a grade 12 intelligence. I am just wondering if, at any time, this requirement will be increased to grade 12 for every single entrance into the program? I believe that in the long run, it will hurt the education of our children. That is what we should be thinking about, is the education of our children, and not necessarily the person who is in the Eastern Arctic Teacher Education Program. I think it is like a parent who partially disciplines their children. In the long run, it just damages the child by not having the entrance requirement at the higher level, then I think we are bringing in teachers who are not academically fit to be in our schools. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1020

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1020

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I understand that fluency and literacy in Inuktitut is one of them, grade 12 certification, or G.E.D. 12, or 21 years of age, I think 21 years of age or older, is what Mr. Arngna'naaq is concerned about. Those fluent and literate in Inuktitut, for example, is a qualification for a language specialist student, who will not necessarily be teaching other subjects except Inuktitut. That person does not require grade 12 English, rather a fluency and literacy in Inuktitut. It would be very, very nice, I agree with Mr. Arngna'naaq, that if we would have all the grade 12 academic graduates enter into a T.E.P. program, and later on, in fact, to get their B.A. in Education. However, until such a time we get higher participation in either program, we cannot afford to make a strict entrance requirement because we will be excluding a lot of students. At the moment, we are encouraging language specialists in Inuktitut, Dogrib, or Chipewyan, who may not have grade 12, but are strong in their own aboriginal language, who can be easily trained to be instructors in their own language, to be taught teaching methods of different subjects within the scope of the aboriginal languages and culture. These are the requirements right now, to encourage everyone, especially the long time classroom assistant, who are very fluent in Inuktitut, who have been teaching a long time in the school system, but always classified as labourers, or whatever you want to call them. They are not classified as a teacher, even though some of them have 25 years experience, so we put them into a Language Specialist Program on the T.E.P., so they could become teachers of that language. These are the different criteria required for entrance until such a time as we are given a different direction to do so by legislation, we want to follow these entrance criteria right now. Thank you.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you, general comments. Ms. Mike.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

(Translation ends) In closing programs at community level, and this always has been an issue, that we have elders who come into the schools to teach the children. I would call them volunteer service. More and more our elders are more reluctant in passing on their knowledge to our young, when they know that we have teachers that are attractively paid, and they do not get anything.

In this process, we are losing our cultural values. Cultural inclusion usually only consists of traditional garment making, and taking students out onto the land for one day or overnight. There are other things that the Department of Education does not look at, that is Inuit values, for instance, naming traditions of Inuit. I am sure Mr. Minister has a lot of names, that he otherwise would never have been associated with, a particular person, not necessarily a relative of his, and because of his namesake he has developed a certain relationship with certain persons.

Those kinds of values are not taught in schools. Over the years that value is disappearing, especially among younger school children and has totally all disappeared in Greenland which was once a very strong tradition. I would hate to see that go among our own Inuit people. I mean cultural inclusion programs are just sort of another bandaging solution to keep certain people who are vocal in the local level quiet.

The thing is, we do have values that are valuable, they are not being taught in schools, and that is one of the reasons why we do not have a high rate of graduates. We do not have any kind of measurement to measure why we do not have a high number of graduates in high school.

Another area, I was shocked to hear the Minister say to Mr. Arngna'naaq that child care is being taught in schools. From what I can remember we did have a really nice program in Churchill Vocational Training School on child care, and I think that should also be included in junior high. Then maybe that would alleviate some of the problems that young people face today about parenting.

Another area that I do have concerns on, is the attitudes that we have in schools. We can not continue blaming our students, I mean they are not totally stupid, actually they are very bright. There is something wrong if not even half of the students graduate from high school. I do agree with Mr. Lewis when he talked about putting some kind of measurement in place, so that we can keep going back and see how things are progressing.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Any other general comments? Mr. Minister? Any other general comments? General comments, Mr. Gargan.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, we are in a situation this year where there are some program cuts, and some restraint measures being taken. This is not going to be a trick question, just a straightforward question. Last year the department decided to do monthly payments, as opposed to quarterly payments, and there were motions with regard to that, by divisional boards of education contribution agreements.

The Deh Cho Tribal Council also came up with a motion opposing that. Primarily because, the Minister would agree, if I said that it was a lot cheaper doing something once, as opposed to doing it twelve times. Do you agree with me?

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Multiple choice? Mr. Minister.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In terms of mathematics and employees, yes, Mr. Gargan is right. However, it was not the expenses that we were talking about, it was a cash flow situation that forced the government to do monthly payments from a quarterly payment. Thank you.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Gargan, general comments.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I think all the rationale has already been justified by the regions with regard to why, maybe having a quarterly contribution agreement, or a yearly would even be better. Then, at least, the Minister may assign one cheque to each region, you make the best possible ways of delivering the programs, and maybe give additional programs with that money.

I would prefer that, rather than having these monthly payments. He must be burdened with signing cheques every week because of all the schools, and the contributions that he has to do every month on that. My God, I do not know how you could put up with that, Mr. Chairman.

---Laughter

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Sorry. Mr. Gargan, general comments?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I do not know if the Minister wants to respond to that. It is a suggestion on how we might be able to assist this government. I think he said that in his opening statement, that any suggestion that would help the department is welcome. I am giving him that suggestion, I hope that he takes it, and considers it.

The other thing, Mr. Chairman, is that this week on the National, there is a program on education that has been on now since Monday, it shows educational issues and how parents are involved, or not involved, in the challenge of the education system.

One thing that I wanted to mention is that, I was happy to hear on the radio last Friday that a gentlemen in Fort Good Hope, Charlie Barnaby, agreed with me, with regards to what I have said. I am not suggesting that we take the cultural programs out of the school and eliminate it, what I suggested was that the cultural programs, the aboriginal cultural programs, should be taken out of the schools, and the responsibility should be given to the community to operate that program. He does agree with me on that. There are all the reasons behind it, and I have already tried to address them. Maybe with regard to, Mr. Chairman, the contribution agreements, I would like to ask the Minister, if he might consider that quarterly, or yearly, contribution agreement.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Minister.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Department of Education did not rule, or direct, the contribution schedule from quarterly to monthly. It was the government that gave the directive, the Cabinet directive. The department must abide by this, because it is a government directive, like any other directive.

In terms of your comments about why the Cultural Inclusion Program be handled by the school rather than any other agency or organization, such as the band or community council, we should give divisional boards $75 a head for students, and it is up to the divisional board how they want to handle the Cultural Inclusion Program. We give the conditional funding to the divisional boards that they use $75 for the Cultural Inclusion Program. How they do it, the way they think is most effective, is their business. That is one of the reasons we are trying to build this autonomy, between the Department of Education and the divisional boards. Divisional boards know better than the Department of Education how that the money can be best used in the school system.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments, Mr. Gargan.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

The Minister mentioned $75 going to the school, per student, I believe. Who gets the French Immersion Programs, or the French language programs? What is it on, and who gets it? Is it the school boards that get it, or the French organizations that get it? There are monies that go directly to the Francophone communities.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will ask Mr. Gerein if he can answer that one. It is a figure that we do not have in front of us. I will ask Mr. Gerein to respond.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Gerein.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Gerein

Mr. Chairman, my knowledge of this, at this time, is that the department does not provide any special funding for French immersion, or boards who offer French immersion schools, although we may be receiving some money from the Secretary of State for Canada, for these purposes, relative to the offering of official languages in the education system. I would need to research that, Mr. Chairman, if there is further information required by the Member.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Any other general comments? Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1021

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will make my comments brief, I have expressed many of my concerns to the Minister in the Standing Committee on Finance meetings.

However, I do want to indicate to the Minister, that I am still disappointed with the fact that the Department of Education is considering the elimination of the Northern Leaders Program.

I recognize that the Minister had wanted to justify the cost of running the program, and possibly redirect the funding into the Student Assistance Financial Program. I do not agree with that particular point. I want to point out a couple of items. The purpose of setting up the Northern Leaders Program initially, was to try to encourage leaders, that are currently within the claims process, to go out, get educated, to be able to come back into the north, and implement their claims as they were successful, concluded and negotiated.

It appears that since this government, and this past government, had made that effort to set up the program, I do not know what measures, or what types of success measures, was put in place to determine whether they are successful or not. The concept was greatly supported by many people. I do not know if the program was being delivered in an equitable manner to ensure that this was the purpose of the program, and that the concept was being adhered to.

It is somewhat disappointing, as a native person, to recognize that the past government, and now this government, set up a program specifically for native people to go and get educated, but for many years since this government's creation, we have had programs through educational leave where we allowed for many non-natives, and many senior bureaucrats in this government, to acquire a masters degree, or some type of a degree, after being recruited by the Government of the Northwest Territories. They have had that opportunity to further their education at government expense.

Now, it appears that as soon as we develop a leadership program to address conclusions and negotiations of upcoming claims that we are going to be looking at, we decide to cut the Northern Leaders Program. I would like to point that out to the Minister that, not only myself, but other Members that feel that this program, even though it had its shortfalls, should be looked at once again to determine if this program could be a successful one. If it is able to address the political needs, and able to address the proposals of self-government that we are talking about, the constitutional talks, and native people talking, and trying to address their own destiny in the territories. So, I would like to ask the Minister if his department would reconsider, and possibly revamp the program, so that they may want to look at placing it back in place to give native leaders, or native people the opportunity that this particular program maybe available in the future?

The other comment that I have, Mr. Chairman, is in respect to the Apprenticeship Program. I am concerned with the fact that, even though I know we have a fairly good success rate of apprenticeships, there may still be a good percentage of apprentices that do not conclude their apprenticeship in the prescribed time frame that is allotted. There may be an abuse of the program. That an individual may not be concluding their apprenticeship in the time period that is set up for them, and I wonder what the department has done, and what measures do they take, to ensure that these individuals, once they go for a four year apprenticeship, are not taking eight years to complete it? Is the Department of Education monitoring, so that they do conclude their Apprenticeship Program within the four years that is prescribed? I believe there are some apprentices that have taken an excessive amount of time.

In respect to, Mr. Chairman, two other comments on the quality of education, the concern of many Members is on the standardization of education. We have to find some method to be able to standardize it, and, I believe, we also have to find some way to maintain educational standards among the teachers that deliver that education. I would like to know if the department would look at a concept of trying to find a system in place to do periodic testing, to ensure the teachers, that are delivering the education, do maintain an educational standard? I believe it is in Alaska, I cannot recall which jurisdiction, but they have testing, every five years, that ensures whether or not the teacher is still fully qualified to be able to teach. It prevents a teacher from allowing themselves to become stagnant, and also encourages a teacher to look at new ideas. So, in order to ensure that we are striving toward a quality education, I strongly believe that standardization of the education program is critically important. We also have to ensure that the teachers that deliver the program, the educators, are maintaining an educational standard that is acceptable. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1022

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you very much. Mr. Minister.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1022

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree with Mrs. Marie-Jewell, that maybe the Teacher Education Program should be looked at. When I go over this time and again trying to understand, I only come up with what Tom said, "how come I get student financial assistance in taking management development courses at the University of Lethbridge, when Mr. H gets leadership program funding, when he is my classmate in that same university, taking that same management development course." Where is the justification between these two aboriginal people from the same community? One is receiving funds from student financial aid, the other one is receiving funds from leadership. We need to review that before we re-activate it. That is what we recommended to the Financial Management Board, that this be concluded. If the House wants to re-activate it, we really have to review it, and make sure that these kinds of things are not visible, or at least they are justified to be in existence. What we can do, then, I guess, is make this one so that it is more geared toward land claims, or a Post Land Claims Development Program, in conjunction, or in cooperation, with recognized universities. I would have no hesitation in looking into that, as Mrs. Marie-Jewell said. Now I will have Mr. Gerein answer the Apprenticeship Program question in terms of how it is supervised. In terms of standard assessment, or standardization of exams that we already have, I think I mentioned that the other day, that we have standard assessment for grade three, six, nine, and 12, plus the indicator that I mentioned in my opening remarks, and the teachers are evaluated by their supervisors of schools each year, right in the classroom. Apparently they are not warned when the supervisor of schools will be entering in the class, so these kinds of things do happen. I think one of the ways we can prevent substandard education we may be getting, is that every three years, there is an actual standard assessment test given to each student. Mr. Chairman, I ask Mr. Gerein to answer in respect to Apprenticeship Programs. Thank you.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1022

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you, Mr. Gerein.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1022

Gerein

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member was expressing some concern about the length of time that some apprentices seem to take to graduate, and are we exerting enough effort to try to have the apprentice graduate within a four year period, which might be a normal period for graduation. We do have apprenticeship offices, and officers, in each one of the regions, and I would say that, yes, we do make a great deal of effort trying to make sure that each student that enters the Apprenticeship Program, is indeed successful. We carry out visits to the employer, and make counselling sessions with the apprentice himself. We monitor the work of the apprentice, and the program with the employer,

and with the apprentice themselves, and again, we are very patient in terms of trying to get the apprentice to complete the program. I do not have the statistics on the number of people, or how long they take to actually go through their Apprenticeship Program, but our success rates overall are very high. The people entering the program actually complete it, and we are in the area of 75 to 85 percent, so the answer is, yes, it does take longer in some cases, and it is because we deliberately set out to help people complete their programs. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. General comments. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I do not want to prolong debate, but, the question I was asking was, if the Minister can determine that the prescribed timeframe for the Apprenticeship Program that is being abused by apprentices.

The concern that I have is, if an apprentice decides to take seven years to complete a four year program, and because the government does not guarantee a job to an apprentice, the chances are that he is holding up the opportunity for another individual in the north to get trained. I just feel that I would like this area to be looked at again. I am not going to dwell on success rates, because I know that we have a good success rate, but whenever there are large projects that are in the north, and developed in the north, we still have to bring in southern imports to do the work.

So, I think that we have to be readily prepared for this type of construction, or whatever, if we consider giving assurance that our Apprenticeship Program is being used effectively for the dollars that we are spending. In respect to the leadership program, I would just like to make a suggestion to the Minister, I know that he gets the concerns of why one student gets Student Financial Assistance taking the same courses as another individual, who may be getting extra dollars because of the leadership program.

I think that a way to solve that maybe not to totally and entirely wipe out the program, but he may want to get a commitment from the student that he is addressing under the Northern Leaders Program. They may want to be a participant, ensuring that we get a commitment like we do with student loans, that they are willing to address the land claims final agreements wherever they may be, that they are willing to work in that area for a certain timeframe.

That is specifically the purpose of the program, it was for individuals of leadership potential to be able to address these areas, and that may be one way to ensure that we are making use of these individuals that we are supporting, to go through the leadership program.

I do not feel that eliminating the program is a good way to address it, to ensure that equity is in the system. All I am saying is that I recognize it did have shortfalls, but I think that we should take another look at it, and possibly address the shortfalls to make sure that we have an effective program to encourage leaders. This enables them to get an education, come back, and be able to address implementation of the claims, wherever they may be, instead of us bringing in, again, southern export expertise to be able to address that.

Those are basically my comments, Mr. Chairman, with respect to the other comments that the Minister has made. Thank you.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Any other general comments? Is it the wish of the committee that we go into detail?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Agreed. Thank you. We will deal with page 18-13. Directorate, total O & M of $3.168 million.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Agreed. Mr. Koe.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

Fred Koe Inuvik

Under which division does the salaries of regional staff come under, this one, or divisional board staff?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

I believe that is under schools, on 18-14, and we will get to that particular section. Directorate, any other specific questions? Directorate, a total of $3.168 million. Agreed?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Advanced education, total O & M of $22.684. Are we agreed?

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Agreed. Thank you. Schools, total O & M $126.649 million. Mr. Koe.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

Fred Koe Inuvik

The question on this one in terms of the Beaufort Delta Divisional Board, I do not know what they are called, it used to be superintendents, is that still the same term? Supervisor of schools? What is the appropriate title of the boss?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, the person in charge of the board is the Director.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

Fred Koe Inuvik

The Director of the Delta Divisional Board, the former director, was, I think put on sick leave, or was on sick leave, and I am wondering what is the status of the former director? Is he still on salary, or what is his current status?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

James Arvaluk Aivilik

I will have Mr. Gerein answer that.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Gerein.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

Gerein

Mr. Chairman, the former director has been reassigned to duties within the Department of Education. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

Fred Koe Inuvik

Okay, what is the current status of the Supervisor of Schools, I think the assistant director is called the Supervisor of Schools? I understand that there was a recruitment process under way and also some negotiations. Can you advise me, what is the current status of that recruitment?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1023

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Gerein.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

Gerein

Mr. Chairman, my understanding is that an offer is being made to the successful competitor from the competition. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Schools, total O & M of $126.649 million. Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, with regard to the second paragraph, "curriculum development takes place through a review development implementation cycle, and focuses on the development of culturally-based curricular development of aboriginal language programs, and related materials takes place within divisional board centres for teaching and learning. Training programs for principals and professional staff, school community counsellors and aboriginal language staff are offered on a ongoing basis."

You do have estimates for the school branches, but how much exactly are we talking about in this program? You have principals, and professional staff training in there.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

James Arvaluk Aivilik

We are looking for that now, Mr. Chairman, can you give us a few seconds? Mr. Chairman, page 18-37, school curriculum services, $761,000. I think that Mr. Gargan asked about language and cultural programs, aboriginal languages $1.389 million and, English and French, $168,000.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Schools, Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

How about training programs for principals and professional staff?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

James Arvaluk Aivilik

That is another detail, we will have to look into that one in a minute.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, can I request the committee, to defer the schools until we know the numbers of those training programs, because basically we are dropping some programs, but we are not dropping others.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

I am not clear on the recommendation that the honourable Member is moving that we defer the matter relating to schools. Could you clarify the purpose of that deferral? Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

We do not have that information, Mr. Chairman. I would like to have it deferred, since we are talking about training programs for principals and professional staff. We are dropping programs in the same department, for example the leadership program, has been dropped.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

I first indicated to the honourable Member, that the matter of the leaders program was dealt with in advanced education. The matter of schools, Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, in terms of principals training or development, the Department of Education has allotted $40,000 and, of course, we do not know the professional development funds that they have for themselves, $40,000 from the Department of Education. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Schools, Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

We do not actually have a professional amount, or is that $40,000 part of the training program for Principals and Professional Staff?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No, we would not know, however, the deductions I used are based on two and a quarter percent of the salary, so we would not know the exact amount on that one.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I am not too clear on that, Mr. Chairman. Is the Minister saying that we have two and a quarter person years designated, not as person years, but as professional training. In Iqaluit, there is a large percentage of students who are in the schools, but we do not have the student teacher ratio and they require more teachers. Is the Minister suggesting that they allow two person years to be sacrificed so that they could use that money to do professional training?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that Mr. Gargan misunderstood me. I said that the department budgets for $40,000 for professional days, however, in the collective agreement requirement for those principals, it is two and a quarter percent of their salary under the collective agreement. That amount we would not know as a department. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Are we agreed?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Gargan, schools.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I have a motion that I would like to make.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Gargan, proceed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee strongly recommends that the Department of Education consider implementing, for the 1993-94 fiscal year, a funding schedule that would provide two divisional boards of education annual lump sum contributions.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. The motion is in order. I will wait a couple of minutes here to circulate the motion. The motion is in order. To the motion, Mr. Gargan.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1024

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I believe that during the last year, there was some concern by divisional boards, and Members have been receiving letters from divisional boards on their contributions that they have been getting prior to getting the contributions being made on a monthly basis. One of the justifications is that with the additional monies that they get through interest, they have been able to provide Special Needs Program, and maybe additional programs that otherwise would not be implemented.

This year, with the program on a monthly contribution, divisional boards have now had to eliminate some of those programs because they do not have those extra monies to do it, and that is basically the reason I wanted the government to consider giving them annual contribution.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. To the motion, question has been called. All of those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Schools have a total O & M of $126.649 million. Agreed?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Arctic College, total O & M of $28.051 million. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A couple of years ago, the college Board of Directors approved, and developed, a five year strategic plan for 1990-1995. My question is, what is the status of this plan? Has it been accepted by the department? Has it been implemented?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to have Mr. Gerein answer that.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Gerein.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

Gerein

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe the strategy, itself, was tabled in the House. Arctic College did not receive, from the department, an official response on the plan until just this summer. The department indicated that we believed that there was further work to be done, in order that there be an implementation plan attached to the strategic plan itself, and my understanding is that Arctic College is taking the advice of the department, and considering further work on the plan. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under Arctic College, I note that there are no person years attached to this category. Where is the staffing for this category? Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Ms. Cournoyea.

Motion To Extend Sitting Hours

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I would like to move that we extend hours to conclude this item.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. The motion is before the House to conclude the item, and the item is specific, the Department of Education. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Arctic College, Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Arctic College, in the other board, is given a contribution, and person years do not show up in the contribution. They look after their own bookkeeping on that one.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Arctic College, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Minister, what is the progress being made in respect to the decentralization of Arctic College headquarters? Before he answers, I also want, at the same time, to commend the Department of Education, and the Cabinet, for making a decision that will be most effective for the students attending the college programs.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

I feel secure for another three years.

---Laughter

Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, in respect to the decentralization program, I will have Mr. Gerein answer that, because it is rather detailed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Gerein.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

Gerein

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Not a lot of detail to offer here. There has been a great deal of detail work done in order to develop a decentralization plan for the college. We believe we have one that is going to be reasonable, and the Minister is required to bring that back to Cabinet by the middle of October, after which time we would expect the wheels to be put in motion to deliver the decentralization. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Arctic College, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

So, just for clarification, are they still looking at the implementation date of April 1, 1993?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister. Mr. Gerein. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, that is part of the report that we would take to Cabinet, and they will then determine when, and how quickly, it will be implemented. It will be up to the Cabinet. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

It is my understanding, when the Government Leader read her Minister's statement, that they were looking at a date, and I had better check Hansard, but I believe the date was April 1, 1993, that consideration was going to be granted. I do not know why the Minister is saying that he is going to come back to Cabinet with it. I hope the Minister, and his department, will make every effort to adhere to the date. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a Cabinet direction we will have to adhere to. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Lewis.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1025

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a touch on the issue of evaluation again. This is an arms length agency, there has to be some basis on which it receives its funds, the college itself must have some system to determine what things will work, and what things are not working. In other words, they must have some system of evaluation, so I would like to know, where does this responsibility lie? Is it a departmental responsibility? Do they just sort of accept what they are told? Do they have a monitoring responsibility? How do you handle the whole issue of evaluating post-secondary institutions that we have a responsibility for? I raise it, because it is a problem right across the country right now. How do you decide how good a university is, whether they should be offering these

services, could they be done differently? Is the money being well spent?

Anyway, that is a general concern of evaluation. How do you decide, and what is the departmental responsibility for it?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will have Mr. Gerein answer that.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Gerein.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

Gerein

Mr. Chairman, the Minister and the department carries the responsibility for setting the goals and objectives for achievement of Arctic College on an annual basis. Also, in terms of such things as agreeing to publications, such as the strategic plan, in the matter of evaluation, the college currently uses indicators such as full-time enrolment, access by students to college programs, and success rates. Now, having said that, and having heard the conversation today, I believe that we can do a lot better, but that is currently what we are using. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Arctic College, Ms. Mike.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Are the aboriginal language courses offered under this activity?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister. Maybe if I could get clarification, Ms Mike. Is the language program in terms of the students in Arctic College?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Chairman, all I want to know is, under Arctic College, are aboriginal language courses offered?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you, very much. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since we are not dealing with Arctic College, may I invite the President of Arctic College as a witness, we will trade witnesses, if you wish. He could answer those details, because they deal with the Board of Governors, rather than with the Department of Education.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Is that agreed with committee?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

Some Hon. Members

Agreed

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Sergeant-at-Arms.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, can I have the President of the Arctic College answer that specific question?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

Cleveland

Mr. Chairman.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Just one moment before you proceed. If the Minister could introduce the witness before the record, please.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I forgot to introduce him. This is Mr. Mark Cleveland, President of Arctic College. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. It is part of the historical records now.

---Laughter

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Cleveland.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

Cleveland

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some of the aboriginal language courses, specifically the Interpreter/Translator Program, and elements of the Teacher Education Program that relate to aboriginal languages, are funded through the allocation on this page. Some of the additional activities that are funded by the Secretary of State, are funded through Vote 4/5 arrangements which are separate from this page. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Ms. Mike.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I have a question. I received information from the government today. There are approximately 250 government employees using an aboriginal language at their jobs, and receiving a bilingual bonus. I also know that there has been government workers who have taken, I will use Inuktitut languages, because I am more familiar with it, Inuktitut language courses in the evenings.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Sorry.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Those who have completed the Inuktitut language courses through Arctic College, who are the employees of the territorial government, are they receiving a bilingual bonus, as well?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When the department, any department, feels that a individual employee requires, or feels that a requirement for the job is to be bilingual, then the department can recommend to the Department of Personnel that this particular person be paid a bilingual bonus. That is only if the job requires a bilingual person.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Ms. Mike.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Chairman, I am sorry, maybe I should have made myself a little bit more clear. I am talking about non-aboriginal government employees who have taken, and completed, Inuktitut language courses. My question was, are they receiving the bilingual bonus?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For that specific question, no, just because someone has taken a course with Arctic College in Inuktitut classes in the evenings does not make the person bilingual. However, that probably would be a good introduction if that person wants to take an actual course, or become a bilingual person. Then, of course, there has to be a test to determine whether that person could be considered bilingual, or not.

The first part of the question, yes, that person could be non-aboriginal as long as they are, under the test, considered bilingual. Then, if the job requires a bilingual person, that person would be recommended for bilingual pay benefits. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Arctic College. Mr. Gargan.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1026

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Just a little question, Mr. Chairman. It is with regard to the contribution agreements to Arctic College. What kind of arrangements do you have with this government with

regard to contribution agreements, is it on an annual basis, a quarterly basis, or a monthly basis?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Like everybody else, a monthly basis. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

One final question. This year, you are getting $611,000 less, which program is suffering because of that?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The program delivery cost reductions, college programs expenditures, are being reduced by $2.050 million. The reduction will occur over a two year period, 1992-93, so as to minimize the impact.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Minister. Mr. Gargan, are you satisfied with the answer? Mr. Gargan.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I believe the reduction is with regard to a directive from the Executive, to reduce their budget, and they are making that effort. Mr. Chairman, I do not know whether, or not, this means that some programs have to be eliminated in order to meet that target reduction. I am interested in finding out if computers are going to be dropped, or if something else is going to be dropped, in order to accommodate that reduction.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, I had the right reductions, but the wrong program. The Journalism Program has been eliminated, and the housing maintainer in Iqaluit has been eliminated, as well as the arts. This one is by about $50,000. Mr. Chairman, I am not getting the right figures here, I will have Mr. Cleveland answer that.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Cleveland.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

Cleveland

Mr. Chairman, the Journalism Program, as the Minister indicated, was eliminated. That program has not been in place for two years. Secondly, the Housing Maintainer Program, that we delivered in Iqaluit, was eliminated, and we now have all of the students attending the program in Fort Smith. As well, there were several reductions in instructional positions, where the assignment for teaching students was reassigned, for example, in the case at the Thebacha campus, where we had an academic upgrading instructor in the trades program, we simply re-assigned the responsibility to the academic upgrading program itself. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Arctic College, Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Why are there no revenues shown under this activity? I am aware that many of the courses offered by Arctic College are third party contracts, or third party agreements. There are no revenues on page 18-15.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Just for the purpose of most committee Members, and most Members of the Assembly, that particular item comes under either information items, or detail of work performed on behalf of third parties, and revenues and recoveries that we will deal with. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, this is under page 18-21. The revenue contribution contracts revenue. These figures will change because of the projected revenues.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Any other questions with regard to Arctic College? Total O & M of $28.051 million, are we agreed?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Details of grants and contributions, grants $6.080 million, are we agreed?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Details of grants and contributions, contributions page 18-19, $149.785 million, are we agreed?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Total grants and contributions, $155.865 million, are we agreed?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Information item, Arctic College, page 18-21, Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

Fred Koe Inuvik

In terms of 1992-93 proposed budget, why are the proposed estimates for contract revenues so low, compared to the revised budget for 1991-92? You have over $4.8 million, you are projecting six hundred. I notice that it is the same trend in the prior year. Again, I question your crystal ball.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is straight from the hat, it changes, because it is very hard to tell who is going to require a program next year, forestry, or anyone that would like to buy the Arctic College programs. We do not know who they are, so we use the six hundred as the holding figure.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Any other questions, Mr. Koe?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

Fred Koe Inuvik

When you look down the columns, from your 1990-91 actuals, and the next year the estimates are the same, you just used the same numbers, but your actuals are different, quite a bit different. I do not know what prior years have been, but I would assume it would be the same numbers. I am just saying that a better job could be done here.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

James Arvaluk Aivilik

I have no grounds to argue with that one.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Is that agreed?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Information item, Arctic College, page 18-21, the information item, detail of advanced education activity by task. Are we agreed?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1027

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Information item, details schools activity, page 18-24. Agreed?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Information item, detail of funding allocated to school boards, page 18-25. Are we agreed?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Fred Koe Inuvik

Sorry, you are agreeing too fast. Page 18-24, details of schools activity. Under residences, student residences, are those the one that are owned and operated by the department, or the ones contracted?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Both, Mr. Chairman.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, that includes home boarding?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Fred Koe Inuvik

For contract residences, who sets the standards for the contracts, the terms of the contracts for students residences?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, I will have Mr. Devitt respond.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Devitt.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Devitt

Mr. Chairman, the contracts are developed by the divisional boards, and reviewed by the department?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Fred Koe Inuvik

The divisional boards set the terms, what does it mean reviewed by the department. If something is not right, what happens?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Devitt.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Devitt

The department reviews it for certain legal implications, any changes in financial implications, it would be looked at, as well, for standards and if there was a problem, then the department would discuss it with the divisional board and changes may be made. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Fred Koe Inuvik

Okay, I have some concerns, as the Minister and his staff are aware, I will raise during question period after we get more details. Thank you. It is with the residents.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Could you clarify that again, Mr. Koe?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Fred Koe Inuvik

Once I get more information on a specific contract, I will be raising it in question period.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you very much. Information item, details of school's activity. Agreed?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Information item, detail of funding allocated to school boards. Any questions? Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Fred Koe Inuvik

Yes, the directors and Superintendent of Schools, all employees that work for divisional boards, are all of their salaries included in here, or are some salaries included under the directorate?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Yes, Mr. Chairman, they are all in here.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Details of funding allocated to school boards. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Fred Koe Inuvik

So, if I wanted the amounts on the numbers of people working for various divisional boards, does the department have that information?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe. Thank you. Any other questions? Mr. Antoine.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the school boards, there are a number of different school boards, and they all have varying amounts of funding. Can the Minister tell me how funding is determined to each particular school board? Is it done on a per capita basis, or what? Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is under the funding formula that includes per student, how many students and distances, everything is worked into the formula for that one.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Any other questions? Mr. Antoine.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Is it possible for me to obtain some more detailed information on the funding formula for each particular school board?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Maybe I should ask, Mr. Chairman, would Mr. Antoine like to have it for the whole school board, or for just his area of school boards?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Antoine.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Yes, just looking at the figures, my particular constituency seems to be one of the low ones, so I just wanted to know if we are getting our fair share of money for my constituency? So, it would be good if I could see how much the other areas are getting funded for in comparison to mine. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

James Arvaluk Aivilik

We can do that, Mr. Chairman.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1028

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Details of funding allocated to school boards. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On this page, note one says the above information has not been finalized by the board. What does that mean?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

James Arvaluk Aivilik

For that detail, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask Mr. Devitt to answer that.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Devitt.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Devitt

Mr. Chairman, at the time this information page was being developed, the boards had not yet seen the information, and we do provide the boards with the information, and have them review it prior to finalizing the numbers. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Does this mean, then, that these figures could change with consultations with the boards? Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, yes, but very little though, because there will probably be some very minor details that will make them change. These are in the formula, they are not really negotiated but they have a formula funding criteria that they come under, and some of the details of some have been missing. For example, one house burned down that we did not know anything about, and that would make a minor change.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Any other questions? The next item is divisional boards of education on pages 18-26. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Fred Koe Inuvik

I noted, in the description, that these contribution agreements provide funding for direct costs of support services. The same question goes for Arctic College. The cost for the Department of Public Works, are they direct costs for maintenance and utilities? What direct costs are in here?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will have Mr. Devitt answer those.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Devitt.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Devitt

Mr. Chairman, the funding under Public Works is for leases of offices and utility costs. It is the amount budgeted for divisional boards with the exception of the Baffin, which is not under a charge back agreement with the government. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Fred Koe Inuvik

So, none of the maintenance costs, by Department of Public Works employees, are in this category?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Minister. Mr. Devitt.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Devitt

Mr. Chairman, no, maintenance is not budgeted under this item. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Fred Koe Inuvik

How is maintenance done, under what category? Is it done by private sector companies?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Devitt.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Devitt

Mr. Chairman, maintenance is done by the department responsible for Public Works and Government Services. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Fred Koe Inuvik

In the Public Works budget, there is no charge back for those services?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Minister. Mr. Devitt.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Devitt

Mr. Chairman, for divisional boards that is correct.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Fred Koe Inuvik

Okay, what about Arctic College, is it the same? I missed it, I am sorry, but who does the maintenance for Arctic College?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Well, normally we would not allow that to occur here, but if the Minister has the answer on the tip of his tongue, it will not be a problem. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, D.P.W. also does it for Arctic College, but there is a charge back on that one, unlike the divisional boards.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Divisional boards of education, we are dealing with that item. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Fred Koe Inuvik

I assume, then, there has been cost benefit analysis done and the ability of Public Works to do these reasonably and economically, as compared to private sector?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, I will have Mr. Gerein answer that.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Gerein.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Gerein

Mr. Chairman, the government directs the Department of Government Services and Public Works, to carry out this function for the college. The Department of Government Services and Public Works may contract the maintenance work out, which is performed on behalf of the college. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Divisional boards of education, Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Fred Koe Inuvik

It is not a question, I guess, but these things should be looked at very closely to privatize those type of work, for maintenance work to companies that are eligible, ready, and willing to do that type of work. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you, very much. Divisional boards of education, information item, student loan revolving fund, any questions? Agreed?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Detail of work performed on behalf of third parties, total department $3.921 million. Sorry, Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1029

Fred Koe Inuvik

Getting back to loans, if I may. Do you have a list of the loans written off, and loans forgiven?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe, did you want to return to student loan revolving fund?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mr. Chairman, can we return to page 18-27?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Is that agreed? Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

Fred Koe Inuvik

Can the department provide details of loans written off, and loans forgiven?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Devitt will answer that question.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you, Mr. Devitt.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

Devitt

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we have that information to provide to you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you, Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

Fred Koe Inuvik

Okay, one more question on loans written off, and loans forgiven, I assume that all reasonable means of collecting these have been followed, and there are policies in place to deal with these?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, by reasonable means. Maybe I should ask for clarification, Mr. Chairman, if I may? Is Mr. Koe asking me if he can get information of who still has outstanding loan, who has been forgiven, and things like that? Actual names?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

Fred Koe Inuvik

No, I did not want outstanding loans. I just wanted loans written off, and loans forgiven, because I assume there is some policy, some work and materials provided for that, somebody has to approve it somewhere, and I just wanted those lists.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

I am sorry. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, I think the best way I can answer this one is I will give him a policy, and he can judge for himself whether that is advisable.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

Fred Koe Inuvik

I want the details of $125,000, and the $926,000.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister. Is that agreed? Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, we are really confused right now. Can we get back to the Member on that one, review the policy on whether, in fact, that can be done, because these are the private loans, rather than the collective as in a company. These are individuals. I want to make sure I can do that under this policy. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Is that agreed? Mr. Koe?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

Fred Koe Inuvik

I cannot agree to this page until I get those details. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Maybe I could put it this way. We will provide the information, page 18-27 is an information item, and Mr. Koe already has agreed to that.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

Fred Koe Inuvik

I am confused. Is the Minister agreeing to provide me the information?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

James Arvaluk Aivilik

I guess the simplest way that I could tell the Member is that, yes, I will do that. In the event, that within that policy, I am not allowed, then I will write the Member, by letter stating whether that can be done or not, but I will say, yes, right now.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

I would like to ask the Minister, and his officials that are sitting there, what does he feel may prevent him from providing that information to the committee?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Well, I am having a bit of a problem, because I cannot answer for the Minister, but I can only say this to you, that if you look at the way the information is, the proposed budget for 1992-93, we have not concluded this year yet, and I am not sure that anybody would know exactly what right offs there are going to be. I could probably say to the Minister that 1991-92 is possible, and available, to Members because you know already what the facts are. That is the one thing that I was confused about earlier, because this is the proposed budget for the whole year. I cannot answer for the Minister, though, the Minister has to deal with that. I just wanted you to be aware of that. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, my question was to the Minister, and his officials, and I asked what would prevent the Minister from providing that information to the committee? Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Well, now that I have listened to my officials, I will answer this one right now. I am always concerned that when I have a loan, that I do not want anybody else, to invade my privacy to see what I have, and what I do not have. The students, I think, should be treated the same way, so that they can go to school with comfort, and without having to feel that they will be reviewed. It is the potential for the invasion of privacy. I want to know first, and make sure that I am not going to do that, and if I am not going to be doing that, then certainly, I will provide that information to the Members.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1030

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

I agree with what the Minister is saying, however, the Minister has to recognize that he is asking this committee to agree to the amount of $125,000 in loans being written off, which is basically saying these students are not going to pay their loans, they are not adhering to their student financial fund, which allowed them to get access to their loans, and further that the loans are forgiven, is practically a million dollars! You want us to approve that, and, yet, you do not want to give us the information as to whether, or not, these students, or your department, has made any effort whatsoever, to ensure that you tried to prevent these loans

from being forgiven and we want to determine that. My colleague is asking a simple question that just needs a yes, or a no, no ifs or buts. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

James Arvaluk Aivilik

If the information item, student loans revolving fund, would have provided all those names that we were concerned about, if that was the method, but, students write offs, $125,000, is what this House would be concerned about, whether to approve it, or not. I do not know if, historically, all the names of the written off loans, names and amounts have been written again. That is why I was concerned about invading their privacy. Maybe next time, we will write down all of the peoples names, if that is the old method of reporting the estimates.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I do not believe the Members wanted the list tabled, or for public information, in respect to who the students were. Mr. Koe had initially asked what measure his department took, and wanted to know if every measure in accordance to the policy was adhered to, to avoid this list coming in respect to loans written off, loans forgiven.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Yes, we will do that, Mr. Chairman.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Lewis, student loan revolving fund.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We understand the loans forgiven part, because in the act, the students that return to the territories and live and work here, they do not even have to work here, just for being here can, in fact, get their loans forgiven, and that is quite legal. It is in the act.

I would like to ask the Minister, on what basis you determine whether a loan should be written off. How do you decide, because there is a whole variety that you have decided to write off. On what basis do you decide to forgive a loan?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will ask Mr. Devitt to answer that question.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Devitt.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

Devitt

Mr. Chairman, prior to recommending the write off of a loan, the Department of Finance would have exhausted all reasonable means of trying to collect that loan and would no longer consider it economic to actively pursue that loan. I would also like to point out that when a loan is written off on the accounts, the government still has the right to collect that loan. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Student loan revolving fund, information item. Thank you. Detailed work performed on behalf of third parties, total department, $3.921 million.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

Fred Koe Inuvik

University and college entrance, funding for assistance to status Indian and Inuit students. Is this $342,000 all of the funding that we get from the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs to cover Indian and Inuit students for post-secondary school?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

James Arvaluk Aivilik

I am told directly, yes.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

Fred Koe Inuvik

Does the department have a number for the total funding received from the federal government for educating Indian and Inuit people?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, no, because this is part of the funding formula agreement that we get from the federal government. This is over and above the funding formula that we received, that is specifically $342,000.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you, Mr. Koe.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

Fred Koe Inuvik

I hope this amount is not the only amount available for Indian and Inuit students for post-secondary, once we reach say 10 students, and this budget is finished, I hope that does not mean there is a quota on Indian and Inuit students.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

James Arvaluk Aivilik

No, Mr. Chairman.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think maybe the Minister has answered my concern here partially, but there is a figure here of assistance to studies, Indian and Inuit students enrolled in college or university for $342,000. He mentioned that it was calculated through some sort of funding formula. How many status Indian and Inuit students are we talking about here? Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

James Arvaluk Aivilik

While my officials are looking for actual details and numbers, this is a College University Preparation Program, but we fund the actual university courses, under student financial assistance fund. This one is just for the preparation work, Mr. Chairman.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Any other questions? Mr. Antoine.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not think the Minister is finished answering my question.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Mr. Minister.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, there were 17 students who received sponsorship through the U.S.E.P. program in 1990-91, there were 50 students who received sponsorship in 1991-92, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development provided $366,000 to the G.N.W.T., which provided 36 new students with allowances. Thank you.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. Any other questions? Does that conclude the information item?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1031

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1032

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Program summary. Total O & M of $80.552 million. Agreed?

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1032

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1032

The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you. That concludes that item. I shall report progress. I would like to thank the witnesses.

Motion 156-12(2): Lump Sum Annual Contributions To Divisional Board Of Education
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1032

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

This House can now come to order. Item 19, report of committee of the whole, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Report Of The Committee
Item 19: Report Of The Committee

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The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

OF THE WHOLE

Item 19: Report Of The Committee
Item 19: Report Of The Committee

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The Chair Richard Nerysoo

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The committee has been considering Bill 33, Appropriation Act No. 2, 1992-93, and wishes to report progress with one motion being adopted. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the chairman of committee of the whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Item 19: Report Of The Committee
Item 19: Report Of The Committee

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The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Is there a seconder? Mr. Koe. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 20, third reading of bills. Item 21, orders of the day, Mr. Clerk.

Item 21: Orders Of The Day
Item 21: Orders Of The Day

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Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, there is a meeting of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts immediately after adjournment. Meetings for tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. of the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges, at 10:30 a.m. of the Ordinary Members' Caucus, and at 11:30 a.m. of the Standing Committee on Legislation. Orders of the Day for Wednesday, September 23, 1992.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Oral Questions

6. Written Questions

7. Returns to Written Questions

8. Replies to Opening Address

9. Petitions

10. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

11. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

12. Tabling of Documents

13. Notices of Motion

14. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

15. Motions

16. First Reading of Bills

17. Second Reading of Bills

18. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Tabled Document 9-12(2)

- Tabled Document 10-12(2)

- Tabled Document 62-12(2)

- Tabled Document 70-12(2)

- Motion 6

- Committee Report 10-12(2)

- Committee Report 17-12(2)

- Committee Report 18-12(2)

- Bill 9

- Bill 31

- Bill 33

- Minister's Statement 82-12(2)

19. Report of Committee of the Whole

20. Third Reading of Bills

21. Orders of the Day

Item 21: Orders Of The Day
Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Page 1032

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, September 23, 1992.

---ADJOURNMENT