Qujannamiik. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have already talked about this issue during this Session in a Member's statement, and for four years previously to this, I have addressed this issue of policing.

I really do not want to spend a lot of time repeating things that I have already said before. Just some insights would be rather useful, perhaps. I have known many young policemen over the years, and I know that after they have served in a detachment, where they are on shifts and so on, and they are investigating crimes, they really live a tough life in many ways. When they go to a small community to work, it is almost like going to a holiday camp, and they admit it. It is like going to heaven, almost, because it is such a beautiful place, the people are so nice, and we cannot believe that you could actually get paid for doing this, it is marvellous.

Of course, they very often did not stay long, and they were young. They would regret leaving, because it was so marvellous, but they were told you will go now, you have done your few years, and it is time to move on. I hear that many times people talk about the need to do things in a different way, our systems do not work, and it has to be more reflective of what we need. I am reminded by the remarks made by Kenoayoak Pudlat about his community. Lake Harbour, at one time, in 1911, it was the headquarters, it was one of the few places on Baffin Island that existed as a community. It had a wonderful deep water port there, and it was easy to get into. The police established the first detachment on the Island. It was responsible for a huge area, they ran dog teams all over the place. Iqaluit did not exist, it was not even thought about putting a place like Iqaluit together at that time.

Over the years, things change, other places grow, and their needs grow. The Minister is faced with a problem of not being able to do everything that people want to do, with what he has got. It is not a direct relationship to the R.C.M.P., I suppose he has a lot of influence, but the R.C.M.P. have to do the job that it is contracted to do under its agreement. You have so many resources to do it.

I know, Mr. Chairman, and maybe Mr. Pudlat will remember this, that there was a man in Lake Harbour, called Akavak, who was famous all over Baffin Island, he is dead now, but he was always polite to people. Whenever the plane arrived with a new constable, he would just take him under his wing, he would only be about 20 years old, still green, and wet behind the ears. As far as the people in that community were concerned, the real policeman was Akavak, he was the guy that knew everything, and he was the person that people would look to. He knew that place, he knew the people, and he was not going to be moving to another detachment somewhere in Saskatchewan, he was going to be there for the rest of his life.

I think people were very well served by people of his quality. There were many of them, I am thinking of Kyak from Pond Inlet, as another example of it. It seems to me that this whole business, of how you provide policing, has to be a proper mix of what you really need to get done.

For example, my guess, and I agree to be out of touch in a lot of the small communities, now, I do not live there any more, but my guess is that there are very few crimes in the community, where within a few minutes, people do not know who did it. It is very rare that you get something happening without people knowing who was responsible for doing it. It is very difficult to be anonymous, and to do something that takes weeks, and weeks, to figure out who is responsible.

The whole business of investigating is not the same, it just seems to be a different kind of work to what exists in the big centre. Whereas, I have said before, we now have crime on a very large sophisticated scale compared with what used to happen, even in this city, 10 years ago. I am stating that point, Mr. Chairman, because it seems to me that we really have to look at what the real needs are, what is the best way of meeting those needs, so we can make the best use of our resources.

I would like to warn Members, that as far as I am concerned, anyway, and what I have learned over the last three or four years, that in this city, although we seem by comparison to be well served, it is very much a question of too few people doing a job, which is beyond the means as allocated to it.

Are there any other general comments? Are there any other questions with regard to police services? Are we concluded? A total O and M of $23.980 million. Agreed?

Agreed.

Thank you. Legal aid, a total O and M of $4.907 million. Agreed?

Agreed.

Thank you. Lawyer support services, a total O and M of $1.968 million. Agreed? Mr. Gargan.

Just one concern, Mr. Chairman. I do have a member in my constituency who was killed on a construction site, as he got run over by a crusher. It has not been resolved yet, and I am still working with the adopted mother of that child. I have not resolved anything, because of the processes with regard to him trying to get a lawyer or monies for a lawyer to deal with this case. I just wanted to bring this up for the record so that the Minister is aware that I am still a bit concerned that nothing has been done, and request that he might look into it. Thank you.

Thank you. A total O and M of $1.968 million. Agreed?

Agreed.

Thank you. Registries and court services, $8.365 million. Mr. Gargan.

Just one concern, it was in February 25, that Mr. Bernhardt brought up a question with regard to judges being trained. We have a pot that is used for training judges, whether it is for gender equality, aboriginal rights, or for French language. In the response by the Minister at that time, the Minister said that pot of money is administered by the judges, and that we do not ask what they are trained for.

It is still public dollars, and it is still being spent. I do not think that judges should be put outside the processes of accountability, I think judges should be just as accountable of public monies as anybody else should be. For that matter, I would hope that when Members ask, "there is this much money for judges for training, what did they train in"? They should be accountable for the amount of monies being spent in that area. Why is that not the case?

Mr. Minister.

Registries and court services, Mr. Gargan.

Yes, I agree that Ministers do get good salaries for the amount of work that they do, and the same thing applies to judges. That does not take away from the fact that here, Mr. Minister has to go through public scrutiny for the public dollars that he is spending. You give immunity to judges from that type of scrutiny.

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi.

Registries and court services. Mr. Gargan.

Since we will not be talking about it, I cannot confirm what the salary scales are...

Proceed, I am sorry.

The Minister would not give me that, so I cannot confirm or make comparisons, because they are, as the Minister indicated, protected under the Constitution, from politicians. I will just leave it at that.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.