I am pleased to introduce the 1992-93 main estimates for the Department of Personnel. Before I get into some detail, I believe it is important to note that almost all of the recommendations of the Public Accounts Committee were implemented during the year, to the satisfaction of the committee. In order to implement these recommendations, the department had to make some fundamental changes to its operation to strengthen financial management.

Tight budget control is extremely important, especially in a department like Personnel. If high cost items, such as employee benefits are not effectively administered, there could be a drain on program funds across the government.

As I am sure you know, our negotiations with the unions earlier this year were successful. In the spirit of restraint, both unions were responsible in their demands. The Teacher's Association, for instance, settled for a two year agreement, with no wage increase in the first year, and 1.8 in the second year. The collective agreement was ratified by a large majority of the membership in April. The negotiations with the Union of Northern Workers were equally productive, with a similar settlement, that is expected to be ratified in early October. The major achievement during these talks was agreement on changes to the method of paying vacation travel assistance. This will result in cash payments to all employees.

Negotiations will continue over the next few months with the Union of Northern Workers on the issue of pay equity. The government cannot afford to pay a large settlement, but if there is goodwill on both sides, Mr. Chairman, I am confident that we can, and will, negotiate a mutually beneficial agreement. However, we have taken measures to provide displaced employees with career alternatives. The Work-force Adjustment Program, and the decentralization support positions negotiated with the U.N.W. have contributed to improved employee morale. These programs provide staff with positive options which allow them to continue their careers, take retraining programs to enter alternative fields, or to find jobs outside government.

Affirmative action continues to make steady improvements in the representation of aboriginal people in government. The percentage of aboriginal employees has increased from 33 percent in 1990 to 35.2 percent. This is an increase from 1,759 to 1,902 employees in a total establishment of approximately 5,400. The Standing Committee on Finance has recommended that the government establish a goal of 50 percent aboriginal employment by 1997. In keeping with my earlier comments on the northern hiring strategy, it is important to remember that 80 percent of unemployed aboriginal residents have less than a grade nine education. Therefore the achievement of this goal will depend on a large degree on the determination of our people to succeed, and the success of our education efforts, to assist them in the next few years.

I have made a commitment, in my recent statement on northern hire, to produce a public document, outlining government strategies to improve northern employment in all sectors.

The expanded staffing appeals process was well used by existing staff, and by members of designated groups from outside the government, in the past year. A total of 92 appeals were heard in 1991. Sixteen appeals, or 17 percent of the total, were upheld. This is down from 1990, when 30 percent were upheld. This downward trend tells me, that at least initially, that the staffing process is working more effectively, and that we have a fair and more equitable process of hiring.

The appeal process has undergone a major overhaul in the past year. Appeal committees are well trained, and are becoming much more familiar with the standardized process we have developed, in consultation with the unions. The process is now much less objective, not only does it clearly define the roles of all the actors, but also the remedies that are available to committees.

My priorities for 1992-93 include completing the negotiations for pay equity, and implementing the new job evaluation system. The handbook will be finalized for employees who are excluded from the union, which outlines their terms and conditions of employment. This will complement the senior management handbook, completed in 1991-92, and will mean that all groups of employees in the government have access to information on benefits and rights of employment.

A new removal tariff will be implemented in 1992-93, which will outline definitive rules and regulations for the removal of an employee's personal effects. The tariff is based on the federal government's regulations, and should save some money, perhaps of $10 million a year. Moving companies have been given an additional month to respond to tender calls on the tariff, but we cannot continue to do business with them, in my view, on the existing terms, as we currently pay 35 to 40 percent more than the federal government for similar moves. I know it costs more to move in the north, but any additional money that we spend on moving people from place to place, reduces the money available for programs.

I have also commissioned a study to provide information on the turnover rates of aboriginal employees. It will survey existing, and former, aboriginal employees to find out how they feel about government employment, and the measures that the government might take to improve retention rates. The study should improve comprehensive information, and the reasons for turnover of aboriginal staff, and provide useful advice on career development options, and how to improve the quality of work life for the aboriginal civil servant.

Finally, I will be coming forward this fall with a comprehensive long-term staff housing strategy. This strategy is the combined effort of a number of government departments, and it is aimed at providing solutions to long-standing problems in staff housing, selling surplus units, promoting a private market, dealing with the need for links with the public housing programs, and rationalizing the rental and utility payment structures. Because of the budget implications for 1993-94, I will be tabling this strategy with the Standing Committee on Finance as part of the 1993-94 budget exercise.

The budget for 1992-93 has been reduced from its 1991-92 level of $29.852 million to $27.406 million, for a total reduction of $2.446 million.

The 1992-93 budget includes a number of changes:

1. A reduction of $333,000 and five person years from the

headquarters establishment;

2. A reduction of $404,000 in other O and M, including a

reduction in travel, material and supplies and equipment

advertising;

3. A net reduction of $818,000 in removal costs as the result

of implementation of the new removal tariff;

4. A reduction of $259,000 in other O and M funds in the job

evaluation activity after the completion of the pay equity

study;

5. Transfer of $1.325 million in other O and M to the Deh Cho and Inuvik school boards, to allow them to pay benefit costs for the employees after the boards are established;

6. An increase of $178,000 for benefits for language

consultants after they become members of the Teacher's Union;

7. An increase of $195,000 in other O and M to cover the increase costs of second vacation travel assistance entitlements for N.W.T.T.A. members.

Mr. Chairman, I am confident that we can have a productive year ahead of us, and that other necessary controls will be in place to make it possible to achieve our objectives. Thank you.

The Finance Committee would be prepared to make comments right after the break.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The comments from the Standing Committee on Finance are basically going to be rather brief, we are going to move right into resolutions fairly quickly. The Committee, as already has been stated, remains concerned about the insufficient numbers of northerners, and affirmative action candidates, in the public service. I think that this has been talked about earlier on, when we were making our general comments about the budget.

To repeat it again, it must become the exception to look south to hire people, rather than the norm. We have to get more northerners to work. One other comment that I would like to make, arises from the Minister's opening statement, in which the Minister mentioned that, "We cannot continue to do business with moving companies as we know do, with rates 35 percent higher than federal rates." The concern stems from the fact that, I do not believe the negotiations yet, that this one month delay was intended to provide.

I am surprised that the Minister would make that kind of comment before those negotiations, especially since this government is on record with the Business Incentive Policy of recognizing the higher cost of doing business in the north. I think that we have to recognize that, since it does cost more to do business in the north, we are going to have to expect to pay a little bit more.

For instance, moving tariffs in the Yukon are 40 percent higher than the federal rate. Moving tariffs in B.C. are 17 to 25 percent higher than the federal rate. Moving tariffs in Alberta are 10 percent higher than the federal rate. Now, if you add a local B.I.P. of 20 percent to any of those, obviously we are going to be considerably higher, probably close to the 35 percent that the Minister stated. I hope that the Minister has not prejudged the process, and will allow negotiations to take place.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to move right into the resolutions, from the Standing Committee on Finance. Our first motion has to do with the Human Resource Management System. The last Legislative Assembly approved a motion to establish, as an objective, the development of a government-wide human resource management system, complementary to the Management for Results System, and it is to be implemented as soon as possible.

The government has agreed with this motion. However, it is not shown as an objective in the 1992-93 main estimates. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Personnel list the objective to develop a government-wide human resources management system, complementary to the Management for Results System, and its implementation plan, in the 1993-94 main estimates.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Our second motion has to do with cross cultural orientation. Since the civil service is dealing in a cross cultural situation, the committee believes it is very important that all employees receive effective cross cultural orientation and training. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Personnel ensure that all government employees receive cross cultural orientation, and training, in order to assist them in the delivery of their programs and services, in a manner sensitive to the needs of the public.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At the Standing Committee on Finance sessions, there was some concern expressed about the cost of the public service. The committee wishes to have a better understanding of the cost of the public service, in order to hold government accountable. Buried at the back of the 1991 Annual Report of the Northwest Territories Public Service, which was tabled in June 1992, is the government's response to these requests. You will see that in exhibit one in our committee report.

There are a number of deficiencies with this exhibit. Namely, the average salaries and positions, when extended, fall short of the $350 million budget by $69 million. Not all benefits were listed, such as housing and settlement allowances, and we still do not have sufficient information on how well we remunerate our employees.

When the committee reviewed certain activities, we were surprised by the apparently high level of average salaries. For example, excluding any benefits contained in the Department of Personnel, Culture and Communications senior management, excluding the deputy minister, averages $107,000. The N.W.T.T.A. President's salary is $133,000, although that is, Mr. Chairman, recovered, the Women's Directorate averages $110,000, the Ottawa position secondment is $107,000, again, Mr. Chairman, this position is recovered, Municipal and Community Affairs Land Claims Review averaged $104,000, Education high school coordinator averaged $98,000.

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee recommends that the main estimates and Standing Committee on Finance documents, commencing with 1993-94, include an additional line indicating the average salaries and wages per person year.

Also at the Standing Committee on Finance meetings, there was some concern over how we could know how well employees were being remunerated. Therefore, in order to approve accountability and we noted that other provincial governments table a detailed listing of remuneration paid in their Legislative Assemblies. Again you could refer to exhibit two, which was taken from the British Columbia public accounts, found in our committee report. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Personnel table a detailed listing of remuneration paid in the Legislative Assembly.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we already have a motion in this House that legislators' salaries be tabled in the House. This was referring to senior staff of the Government of the Northwest Territories, although it was not mentioned in the motion. The intent of the committee was to have senior staffs' salaries tabled, in the same manner as was done in the exhibit shown in our report, similar to the B.C. process.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The next resolution has to deal with cost savings. The Department of Personnel informed the committee...

Yes, just a concern about the confidentiality for Members in the public service, because, as you say, everybody knows everybody up here. If we published salaries and monies earned by people in particular positions, it becomes very public, there is no confidentiality left for individuals. I think that most people will, whether they are in the communities, Yellowknife, or large centres, feel that there is some invasion of their privacy, about those things that they feel are confidential. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, if you are not going to allow debate, I was going to respond to the Minister's comment. I think that if he is going to be allowed to comment, then I have to be able to respond to it.