Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, the report we had yesterday may be dated. I will take that question as notice and provide the response at the earliest opportunity. Thank you.

The Minister has taken it as notice. Item 5, oral questions. We will return, then, to tabling of documents. Item 12, tabling of documents.

Pursuant to section 21-1, on behalf of the Management Services Board, I wish to table, Tabled Document 37-12(4), the Report on the Audit, the Accounts and Financial Transactions of the Legislative Assembly Retiring Allowances Fund for the Period Ended March 31, 1993.

Tabled Document 38-12(4), Northwest Territories Legislative Assembly Retiring Allowance Act and Supplementary Retiring Allowances Act for the Year Ended March 31, 1993.

I would like to table, Tabled Document 39-12(4), the Annual Report of the Languages Commissioner of the Northwest Territories for the Fiscal Year 1992-93, which was transmitted to my office today. It is required to be tabled under section 24 of the Official Languages Act. The report summary and executive summary are translated to all official languages of the Northwest Territories. Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table, Tabled Document 40-12(4), a letter dated November 29, 1993, addressed to myself from former mayor of Iqaluit, Charlie Ruttan, commenting on Mr. Todd's return to my written question tabled the other day. Thank you.

Item 12, tabling of documents. That concludes tabling of documents. Item 13, notices of motion. Item 14, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 15, motions. Item 16, first reading of bills. Item 17, second reading of bills. Item 18, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Minister's Statement 3-12(4), Sessional Statement by Premier; Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95; Committee Report 3-12(4), Report on the Review of the 1994-95 Capital Estimates; Committee Report 7-12(4), Committee Review of DeLury and Associates Limited Contracts; Committee Report 8-12(4), Final Report on the Elimination of the Highway Transport Board; and, Tabled Document 11-12(4), Report from the Fort Providence/Cambridge Bay Strategic Planning Workshops, with Mr. Ningark in the chair.

Thank you. The committee will now come to order. When we concluded yesterday, we had the Minister of Social Services at the witness table and we were in general comments. What is the wish of the committee? Member for Thebacha.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We were addressing the Social Services budget under general comments. There was a question posed to the Minister that she didn't answer because of technical difficulties that we encountered. We would like to continue with the Social Services budget and determine the time frame from then, whether or not we will continue on with another budget. Thank you.

Does the committee agree that we continue with the Department of Social Services?

---Agreed

Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95

Committee Report 3-12(4), Review of the 1994-95 Capital Estimates

Thank you. Would the Minister like to bring in a witness or witnesses?

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Department Of Social Services

Thank you. For the record, I will ask that the Minister introduce the witnesses, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my left is Mr. Ken Lovely, Deputy Minister of Social Services. On my right is John Doyle, Director of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Minister. When we concluded yesterday, as the Member for Thebacha indicated, there was a question directed to the honourable Minister from the committee. If you can remember the question, would you care to respond? Madam Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the alcohol treatment centre that is planned for the community of Rankin Inlet, which is a nine-bed facility, the question was whether or not that would be cost-effective, as compared to 15 beds. It's true that a 15-bed facility, as opposed to a nine-bed facility, has a significant difference in the operation and maintenance. I had started discussions with the Minister of Health to see if this facility could be built along with the health facility that is planned to be built some time in the future. The discussions are under way with the Keewatin Regional Health Board to see if there's a possibility of combining the alcohol and drug treatment centre with the new health facility. The other costs will be considered to see whether or not it will be more cost-effective. The reason it is only a nine-bed facility is that the budget that was allocated only allowed for nine beds.

General comments. Member for Thebacha.

Mr. Chairman, I'm trying to address a point that the Minister or her department may be failing to recognize. In any studies that have been developed with regard to alcohol and drug treatment centres, it is determined that in order for the facility to be cost-effective and the funding spent to be feasible, these facilities have to have at least 15 beds. When you are creating a facility with only nine beds, you are creating a white elephant. You're not utilizing your funding that you wanted to expend on it in the most effective way. So that is why I am trying to stress to the Minister that to build a nine-bed facility, is going to cost her department a lot more in the long run, than if you looked at the possibly of a 15-bed facility. Thank you.

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm a lot clearer now as to what the Member for Thebacha is saying. It is in just the talking stages now, and there is talk of combining the treatment centre with the health facility. If there is going to be a cost- saving because of that, we know there are definitely going to be cost-savings on the operation and maintenance parts of it, for instance, for the utilities. As I said before, it is in the discussion stage right now and Mr. Pollard and I have agreed that if it is going to be more cost-effective, there is no reason why we shouldn't be looking at having it combined with the health facility. If we are, in fact, going to combine it with the health facility and there are cost-savings, perhaps there could be extra rooms added. If the treatment centre was to be built on its own, yes, it would definitely be more costly than being combined with the health facility.

Thank you. General comments. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The problem that I can envisage is, there are no current plans for a facility in the Keewatin for a health centre. You don't have that funding in the budget -- and I know it's to a different Minister -- but the Department of Social Services, at the same time, has requested funds to build an alcohol and drug treatment centre in the Keewatin. There's no current simultaneous expenditure for both a health centre and an alcohol and treatment centre. So therefore, your facility now, as it stands in our budget, would be an independent facility. Your independent facility in your discussion stage is for a nine-bed facility and what I am saying is, this nine-bed facility would not be cost-effective.

So, therefore, until you can integrate it into the health facility, whenever it does come into the budget, you should consider looking at a 15-bed facility. Thank you.

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Like I said before, it is in the discussion stage and I have not had a chance to look at it again after the capital budget was reviewed by the Standing Committee on Finance. This is one of the possibilities we are looking at, based on the recommendations of the Standing Committee on Finance from a year ago. I do agree, there has to be some planning coordinated between Health and Social Services. Yes, I do agree with that, but this is something I know can work. We have to start somewhere.

General comments, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess then my question is, if the Minister agrees that these two facilities should be integrated, then why is the Department of Social Services, in this capital budget, asking for money to plan a stand-alone facility without the Department of Health having the same type of health facility in the same budget? What they're doing is putting the cart before the horse and they're not planning properly. That's the concern that I have, Mr. Chairman, thank you.