Mr. Chairman, then I would like to be allowed to ask the same question when we go page by page at 16-10, with his officials here. Thank you.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to the previous questions I've asked the Minister, I will be elaborating a little bit more on it. When we received a letter from the Arctic Bay Education Council chairperson, Levi Barnabas, and members of the Baffin regional education board, they requested a grade 11 extension last year. They put in a proposal for a grade 11 extension to the honourable Minister, but the Minister did not put it into the capital plan. He indicated to us that we should try and request the same extension in 1993-94. The Baffin Divisional Board of Education

is aware of this problem and they are aware of Arctic Bay's request.

In the surrounding communities, such as Grise Fjord and Resolute Bay, I am aware that there will not be any grade extensions. However, Arctic Bay is the closest to getting it. I feel that it would be best if they could get a grade 11 extension so that these surrounding communities can go to Arctic Bay to attend grade 11.

Today, I am aware that there is one Resolute Bay student who is attending school now in Arctic Bay, due to the fact that it is closest to his home community.

I have a very grave concern about this, knowing last year that the Minister refused when they requested the grade 11 extension. Today, I noticed that the department doesn't have any plans of extend the grades. I know they have a lot of reasons why they are requesting the extension and the community education council and the Baffin Divisional Board of Education had already made plans for that extension.

However, on the 19 of November, I received a letter -- I have it here with me -- coming from those two communities, asking for support for this extension. Arctic Bay residents and students have requested Baffin Divisional Board of Education for support on this and I know very well that they will be supported by the divisional board. Can the Minister, today, consider the request by the Arctic Bay residents? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That's really an operational plan and not necessarily a capital issue. The problem, Mr. Chairman, is a lot of people misinterpret the issue of extension of grades to mean expansion to schools. Extension of grades doesn't always mean that we need additional space in the schools. It's the same situation that is occurring in my particular constituency as well, where grade 10 is being requested in Aklavik and Fort McPherson. The fact is that the community, along with the board, needs to sit down and decide what program they are going to offer for those high school students. They should identify whether or not there is enough space in the school, to deliver the program or whether we need to renovate the school so that we can provide for subjects such as chemistry or biology, or for that matter, if they need another classroom to deliver home economics and industrial arts. That is a bigger issue and it really needs to be worked out with the divisional board. I don't, personally, oppose the idea of the extension if that plan is there. I have accepted and recommended all those extensions that have been requested of me to Cabinet, and Cabinet has generally accepted them.

That's not an issue with me. I don't have a problem. What needs to be done is broader planning. If you also add grade ten or grade 11 to the school, the question is, are you going to add a teacher? If you add the teacher, you need to provide housing for that teacher. Those are all parts of the plan that need to be addressed. If they aren't, then we won't have the ability to address the programming needs for the student. We have to look for accommodation for the student. We'll provide the resources, but that is all part of the package.

I just raise that point because there is an impression out there that extension of grades means extension to schools. I hope that in the planning we can alleviate that. But, in principle, I can indicate to the honourable Member that I have no problem with the extension of grade 11, but it does need some planning with the board because part of that plan requires us to transfer O and M monies to the community, as well.

(Translation) Mr. Chairman, further to the remarks from the Member for High Arctic, last year, I received a letter from the chairman of the divisional board of education. It was regarding a grade extension. When we requested a grade extension in Lake Harbour, we were able to get a grade ten extension. First of all, I wish to commend and congratulate the Minister of Education for proceeding with our request.

I'm not sure whether this should be discussed through the capital plan. As he indicated, grade extensions usually go under the O and M budget. I can't talk for the Member for High Arctic, but as we were talking, he made it clear to me that they needed grade extensions in the High Arctic. I told him they might be able to make plans for grade extensions in Arctic Bay, Cape Dorset and Sanikiluaq. The Minister indicated to us that grade extensions don't go under the capital plan. I'm not even sure they go under the O and M budget. There have been a number of requests for grade extensions. I can tell you for sure that we don't request these extensions just for the sake of requesting them.

When the community comes to us with concerns about schooling, we try to tell them that we have financial restraint occurring in the government. Parents really want their kids to attend school. I just wanted to mention this a little bit more. I wanted to indicate to the Minister that when we make requests, it is for the sake of the community, not just for us, as MLAs. We try and work hard for our constituent's needs. I wouldn't mind if he responds to my question regarding grade extensions, whether they go under capital funding or O and M funding.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have no comments. I appreciate the words that the Member has spoken. I think they are important in the decisions that we are making regarding education. I want Members to recognize that even if we are embarking on a program of extending grades in our communities, that success is based on good planning. It is not only based on commitments where we agree in principle, but we are also committed to providing the financial and human resources such as teachers or extra staff in the communities to ensure the success of the program. That needs work and planning. It is not meant to make it difficult for the communities.

The other issue is, presently, the school programs are growing quickly. We don't have the dollars to respond to all the requests that are made. We need to make sure we have good programming for students from kindergarten to grade ten, or whatever grades are in the communities. On the matter of Arctic Bay and grade 11, I can respond to the Member in the affirmative. That program will be proceeding in 1994.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am concerned that there seems to be a lack of interest on behalf of MLAs on such an important department. There is no quorum.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You're very kind to recognize me. I appreciate it.

---Laughter

On the issue of grade extensions, I agree with the Minister. It is a tough one and one where a lot of planning and thinking is required. I would like to ask the Minister if there has been an issue so far, when you extend grades, about the division of responsibilities? Everywhere there are schools that go from kindergarten to grade 12, parents get all upset because there are big children and little children, they are all mixed up. There have been all kinds of proposals for elementary schools, middle schools and senior high schools. Has that been an issue at all, during the life of this program, to extend grades about physical separation of people because of the different sizes and ages of people and the different programs? My guess is that, eventually, that will happen because that is what has happened everywhere. I am wondering if that has happened to date with our own program.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It has not been one of our major problems that has been encountered. It is one of the questions that has been asked about the future of the program, but, generally speaking, what has been the most critical issue to date has been programming and actual accommodation for the students, even within the schools that exist or additions to those schools. That has been the most important question that has been raised with us. There has been some discussion in a number of communities to suggest a possibility of stand-alone high schools, but we are not at a stage right now where the student population could justify us building stand-alone buildings. We have to recognize that in our planning with the resources, both financial and human that we have access to, that we have to use the buildings that are there or provide for extensions and expansions to the school before we consider stand-alone buildings. That is generally the way the discussion has taken place.

Merci bien, Monsieur. I would like to ask the Minister, when you are looking at expansion of a school in the sense that you have to add more grades to it, do you have a system to decide how or if you are going to do it? From what I have been able to learn to date, it depends very much on how much pressure comes from a community saying this is what we want. Usually, it is because of that pressure that we decide to go in that direction, but do we have any objective system of deciding whether or not to go ahead? Is there an objective system for planning? You could say, by this date, it may be possible. The fear I have is that we just simply do it because the pressure is so great to jump in.

Mr. Chairman, I can't say to the honourable Member that there is any definitive guidelines that are used at this particular juncture. A great deal of the initial policy initiative that was undertaken was to -- once the communities expressed an interest -- respond as positively as we could. Part of the underlying final decisions are based on community planning in terms of reviewing their school, the kinds of programs that are to be offered to their students, and the resources that are available within that community. While they may agree in principle, the final decision will be based on those assessments that have been done by the community and the divisional board. Generally speaking, I can't say to you, here are the guidelines that we are following. The guideline is that we are trying to deliver as much of the high school programming near the communities that request it.

I just have two more questions. I can see if you want to extend or provide programs which may require capital construction, but is it a question of the programs people want or a question of the number of students that you have, who are at a certain level, who would like to continue on to another grade?

Are there a number of people that you use as your guide before you decide to go ahead with extensions?

I can't say that there is a specific number. That is a difficult thing to say. There are programs that we start in some communities that have nine students beginning. There are some communities that have 22 students beginning. The irony about that is we begin with those numbers. Rae-Edzo is the closest community. I believe we started with about 22 with the idea that there was going to be 22 in the high school program. It ended up with 78. We had not considered the potential students in the community. Sometimes, we don't take them into consideration. Now, since those results have occurred in our communities, we are taking note of those students and asking the young people in the

communities whether or not they are interested in returning. We are making them part of those calculations.