Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Debates of Dec. 2nd, 1993
This is page numbers 363 - 398 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was facilities.
Topics
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Yes.
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Total activity, $7.5 million.
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk
On page 08-7, department summary, total capital expenditures, $12.781 million.
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Does that conclude Public Works and Services?
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
December 1st, 1993
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
---Applause
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk
I would like to thank the Minister and his witnesses at this time. What does this committee wish to do next?
Member for Thebacha.
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha
Mr. Chairman, if the Minister of Justice is available, we would like to proceed with the Department of Justice.
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Mr. Nerysoo.
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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, we are ready to deal with Justice as soon as the Minister returns to the House. He'll be here in about two seconds. One, two, there.
---Laughter
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Is this committee agreed that we will deal with Justice?
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Department Of Justice
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Page 06-7. I wonder if the Minister would like to make opening remarks?
Introductory Remarks
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The capital budget for the Department of Justice deals exclusively with corrections. Our 1994-95 capital requirements are modest. They are the absolute minimum that we need to maintain the system as it is.
Our estimates provide for:
-upgrading the Territorial Women's Correctional Centre in Fort Smith to include secure cells and wheelchair access;
-replacing the ceramic flooring in the kitchen at Yellowknife Correctional Centre to comply with health and safety standards;
-replacing the stove in the kitchen at Baffin Correctional Centre; and,
-repairs at young offender facilities, the Yellowknife Correctional Centre, and the South Mackenzie Correctional Centre.
The corrections division will be revising their capital standards and criteria and preparing an analysis of the life expectancies of the existing facilities starting in the fiscal year 1993-94. These projects are being carried out in order to prepare for anticipated changes to correctional programs resulting from the master plan prepared in 1992. This process will result in a revised five year capital plan.
Advanced planning and research for architecture completed an extensive review of the Northwest Territories corrections system. The review was an in-depth examination of the existing system, the expressed desire for communities to take an active part in the justice system, offender profiles, employment situations and the region of origin of the offenders.
The resulting report, the 1992 master plan, drew attention to criminal and demographic trends in the north and projected a major increase in the demands placed upon the correctional system by an increasing population with serious social problems, such as poverty, housing shortages, drug and alcohol abuse and dysfunctional families.
Over the past decade, the corrections admission rate has increased by 45 per cent. This increase in the number of incarcerations has consistently exceeded increases in the population. The existing system is already overcrowded to the point where there is no more space to house offenders.
All adult facilities are operating at, or above, rated capacity on a continuous basis. The trends identified in the master plan will continue to place ever increasing demands on an already overcrowded system. Additionally, there is a tremendous need for more programming within institutions and at the community level. The type of programming required includes: drug and alcohol abuse counselling; family violence counselling; life-skills training; and, continuing education and vocational training. Culturally-relevant corrections programs such as wilderness camps and land skills survival programs are being developed and are currently being funded through operations and maintenance programs. As plans develop for these programs, capital dollars may be required.
Corrections and the Justice system must evolve through the coming years to meet the demands placed on them. The Department of Justice presented a report on the overall capital plan for corrections for the next few years to the Standing Committee on Finance when we met a few weeks ago.
The report addressed the recommendations of the master plan, the issue of division of the Northwest Territories and discussed new facilities in regions of high demand. There is also a need for alternatives to traditional jails and prison alternatives that more effectively rehabilitate offenders. The report introduces the concept of community residential centres in smaller communities to facilitate community-based programming. Finally, the report identifies some redirection of resources to match regional demand.
Regrettably, there will still be a need for more facilities of a secure type even in the best of worlds. The need to maintain existing facilities, to repair, upgrade and to build new facilities as required, will continue for the foreseeable future. For fiscal year, 1995-96, it is our intention to prepare a five year capital plan which includes funding for culturally-relevant corrections programs, land based corrections facilities and future institutions.
I invite Members of this Assembly to examine the 1994-95 capital forecast and I will try to answer any questions that the Members may have.
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, there might be a need to answer some detailed questions which I may not be able to, such as the type of tiles on the floor I'm going to use and the type of stoves I'm going to order, so I'm going to ask my department to appear as witnesses with me.
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Okay, after we've heard from the Finance committee. Mr. Arngna'naaq.
Standing Committee On Finance Comments
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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik
Mr. Chairman, on behalf of the Standing Committee on Finance, I would like to report that the Department of Justice provide the committee with a briefing on the changes being recommended to the approach taken to corrections programs in the Northwest Territories. Members support, in principle, the approach outlined by the department. The basic elements of the approach are as follows.
-Devote resources to communities for the establishment of community justice committees and the development of alternatives to incarceration.
-Devote resources to community-based residential centres across the Northwest Territories.
-Build additional institutional facilities in Nunavut and the MacKenzie Delta to better reflect existing and projected inmate populations.
-Continue discussions with Ottawa to repatriate federal inmates, from the Northwest Territories, now serving long sentences in southern institutions.
On the basis of the recommended approach, the Minister and his staff expect the capital costs for community-based residential centres to approach $5.1 million by the year 2006. Construction or renovations are expected to be close to $43 million.
The committee suggested, during the review of the 1993-94 capital estimates, that the department include funding for culturally relevant corrections programs such as wilderness camps and land skills survival programs in the 1994-95 capital estimates. This has not happened. The committee recommended that future budgets address this exclusion.
Given the magnitude of estimated capital costs and the exclusion of important programs from the capital forecast, the committee is very concerned that the department is presenting a five year capital plan that totals only $2.8 million. This amount represents more than $21 million less than what was put forward last year.
The committee appreciates that the department's plans require adjustment and that the recommended approach must be approved. However, committee Members do not understand why the department did not come forward with their best estimates for capital spending over the next five years.
A realistic estimate on the capital expenditures required for corrections programs are not included in the 1994-95 capital estimates. Committee Members wonder, then, where additional funds will come from, in future years, to support correctional programs. Will other departments be required to scale back their plans in order to accommodate the absence of these required programs in the capital plan?
Committee Motion 47-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 16, Carried
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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik
Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee recommends that the Department of Justice prepare five year capital forecasts for corrections, which include:
(a)expanded culturally-relevant corrections programs which require community and land-based corrections facilities; and,
(a)future institutional facilities.
These five year plans should be included in the 1995-96 capital estimates.
Committee Motion 47-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 16, Carried
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. The motion is to order. To the motion.
Committee Motion 47-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 16, Carried
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An Hon. Member
Question.
Committee Motion 47-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 16, Carried
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Question has been called. All those in favour? Opposed? Motion is carried.
---Carried
Mr. Arngna'naaq.
Committee Motion 47-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 16, Carried
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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With respect to the department's plans to repatriate federal inmates, the committee suggests that the department exercise caution in negotiating with the federal government. In light of experience with other devolution arrangements, the federal government must not be allowed to "off-load" its responsibility. Any agreement must be carefully reviewed to ensure that funding is adequate for long-term needs.
The committee noted that the department is requesting $100,000 for renovations to the Yellowknife Corrections Centre. Members are concerned about the relative economy of investing more money in renovations to that facility. The committee would like to see the department consider other options to house those inmates.
Those are the committee's comments. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.