Mr. Speaker, I also have a Return to Written Question 5-12(3) asked by Mr. Gargan to the Minister of Justice on expenditures from the public for judges' training.

For each of the three fiscal years 1990-91 to 1992-93 the Department of Justice contributed a grant of $2,500 to the Provincial Court Judges' Association.

The fiscal year 1991-92 was the only year of the three when we set up a separate task for judicial training. We budgeted $50,000 for the training of five territorial court judges. A total of $41,000 was actually expended. This amount includes the cost of the annual western judicial education centre conference which was hosted in the Northwest Territories and all travel expenses related to training that year. The travel expenses, which include accommodation and per diems, accounted for approximately $14,323 of the $41,000.

The western judicial education centre conference included invited participation from community and aboriginal persons in the NWT as well as panel, lecture and workshop participation from northerners other than judges. The primary issues on the agenda were gender equality, aboriginal people and the justice system and sexual assault.

For the other two fiscal years training expenses came out of general O and M budgets from the territorial courts in Inuvik, Iqaluit and headquarters. Training expenses for judges were not distinguished from training expenses for court services staff.

For the 1993-94 fiscal year we could, if requested, begin to capture in our financial information, costs for the training of the judiciary, separate from training of the court services staff.

Judges in all cases have attended only courses and programs which have been sponsored by accredited educational institutions or judicial education bodies. All of the courses are related to such things as the administration of civil and criminal justice, to computer-assisted legal research and to official languages training hosted and paid for by the federal commissioner of Judicial Affairs.

Throughout Canada, the education of judges is universally administered by judges and judicial education bodies, but in no case by governments. Our government, like those in the other provinces and territory, has consistently provided modest sums of money to allow judges to attend workshops and conferences on subjects chosen or approved by the chief judge of the territorial court or the senior justice of the supreme court.

In past years, there was public and press comment about whether a particular northern judge had or had not attended a particular workshop on a subject of northern public interest. The Member is correct in saying that public expenditures on judicial training may appropriately be scrutinized by the Legislature and its committees. This is a normal part of the accountability of the Department of Justice for its expenditures.

Judges are, of course, independent of the Legislature and not accountable to it for how they train themselves. Nor should this Legislature scrutinize the specific training taken by individual judges and make comment or criticism on it. On the other hand, in a general sense, the public and governments have in recent years urged judges at all levels, with due respect for their independence, to pursue training in all areas relevant to the work they perform and the environment in which they perform it.

Consistent with the principles, if there is other information which I can usefully provide to the Member, I will attempt to do so at his request.