Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I told the Member, yes, I would.

Item 6, oral questions. Item 7, written questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I have two written questions both addressed to the Minister of Education.

Would the Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs advise this House of the amount of funds provided to the western Arctic leadership program in Fort Smith for 1991-92, 1992-93 and the proposed funding for 1993-94?

Would the Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs provide to this House a list of names of all students residing at the Lutsel K'e student group home as of September 1, 1992 and the current residents who are residing at the group home as of February 19, 1993? Thank you.

Item 7, written questions. If there are no additional written questions we will take a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

We are on item 8, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

Mr. Speaker, Return to Written Question 1-12(3) and 2-12(3) asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell to the Minister of Justice concerning summary of costs paid by the Legal Services Board.

The honourable Member has provided a list of specific court cases and asked for a summary of legal aid costs paid on behalf of people involved in appeals and in new trials after successful appearances in those matters.

Legal aid is a form of social assistance. As such, there are issues of privacy involved in the provision of legal aid. Figures may be made available indicating the total amounts of legal aid costs or the number of civil and criminal clients over a period of time. However, even to suggest that any of the people

involved in the matters listed have received legal aid, would be a breach of the privacy of the individuals involved.

With that in mind, I am advised that some but not all of the cases you mentioned involved legally-aided clients. Of the 26 cases named, the total fees and disbursements or expenses paid out by legal aid for appeals and retrials was approximately $160,000.

I believe in an open and accountable system of justice and would be happy to offer whatever assistance I can to the honourable Member in providing any other information that does not involve an infringement of the privacy of clients.

Mr. Speaker, I also have a Return to Written Question 5-12(3) asked by Mr. Gargan to the Minister of Justice on expenditures from the public for judges' training.

For each of the three fiscal years 1990-91 to 1992-93 the Department of Justice contributed a grant of $2,500 to the Provincial Court Judges' Association.

The fiscal year 1991-92 was the only year of the three when we set up a separate task for judicial training. We budgeted $50,000 for the training of five territorial court judges. A total of $41,000 was actually expended. This amount includes the cost of the annual western judicial education centre conference which was hosted in the Northwest Territories and all travel expenses related to training that year. The travel expenses, which include accommodation and per diems, accounted for approximately $14,323 of the $41,000.

The western judicial education centre conference included invited participation from community and aboriginal persons in the NWT as well as panel, lecture and workshop participation from northerners other than judges. The primary issues on the agenda were gender equality, aboriginal people and the justice system and sexual assault.

For the other two fiscal years training expenses came out of general O and M budgets from the territorial courts in Inuvik, Iqaluit and headquarters. Training expenses for judges were not distinguished from training expenses for court services staff.

For the 1993-94 fiscal year we could, if requested, begin to capture in our financial information, costs for the training of the judiciary, separate from training of the court services staff.

Judges in all cases have attended only courses and programs which have been sponsored by accredited educational institutions or judicial education bodies. All of the courses are related to such things as the administration of civil and criminal justice, to computer-assisted legal research and to official languages training hosted and paid for by the federal commissioner of Judicial Affairs.

Throughout Canada, the education of judges is universally administered by judges and judicial education bodies, but in no case by governments. Our government, like those in the other provinces and territory, has consistently provided modest sums of money to allow judges to attend workshops and conferences on subjects chosen or approved by the chief judge of the territorial court or the senior justice of the supreme court.

In past years, there was public and press comment about whether a particular northern judge had or had not attended a particular workshop on a subject of northern public interest. The Member is correct in saying that public expenditures on judicial training may appropriately be scrutinized by the Legislature and its committees. This is a normal part of the accountability of the Department of Justice for its expenditures.

Judges are, of course, independent of the Legislature and not accountable to it for how they train themselves. Nor should this Legislature scrutinize the specific training taken by individual judges and make comment or criticism on it. On the other hand, in a general sense, the public and governments have in recent years urged judges at all levels, with due respect for their independence, to pursue training in all areas relevant to the work they perform and the environment in which they perform it.

Consistent with the principles, if there is other information which I can usefully provide to the Member, I will attempt to do so at his request.

Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, replies to budget address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Item 14, tabling of documents. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first read of bills. Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Amittuq that Bill 17, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94 be read for the first time.

Your motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 19, second reading of bills. Mr. Pollard.

The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 17 has had second reading and, accordingly, the bill stands referred to committee of the whole. Item 20, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 2-12(3), The Justice House - Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality; Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Social Assistance Act; Bill 6, An Act to Amend the Commercial Tenancies Act; Bill 11, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act; Bill 16, Norman Wells Natural Gas Distribution System Act; Minister's Statement 34-12(3), Long-Term Staff Housing Strategy; Committee Report 10-12(3), Report on Tabled Document 21-12(3), Payroll Tax Act; and, Bill 17, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94, with Mr. Ningark in the chair.

Thank you. The committee will now come to order. Yesterday we were dealing with Bill 5 which was deferred to a later date. What is the wish of the committee? Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Chairman, we will continue with Bill 6 and Bill 11 and see if we can get to Bill 16. Thank you.

Thank you, madam. Does the committee agree that we will deal with Bill 6 and Bill 11?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Would the Minister of Justice have any opening remarks on this matter? Mr. Kakfwi.

Introductory Remarks