Good afternoon. Before I proceed with the orders of the day I have message from the Commissioner. It reads, "Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise that I recommend to the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories the passage of Bill 23, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1992-93, during the Third Session of the 12th Legislative Assembly.

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members statements. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On behalf of everyone in Fort Providence I would like to thank the peewee hockey team for a job well done in a tournament held in Yellowknife last weekend.

---Applause

We could not be more proud of each of these young people. Team members are Neil Bonnetrouge, Scott Bonnetrouge, Ben Bonnetrouge, Elaina Krutcho, Michael Krutcho, Carl Squirrel, Sammy Baptiste-Gargan, William Landry, Ryan Larson, Augustine Minoza, Joseph Canadien, and Brandon Matto.

Mr. Speaker, I may be somewhat bias but I firmly believe that this team should be elected to the peewee hall of fame for their display of the three Es, energy, endurance and effort. I should point out, Mr. Speaker, that during the weekend I had an opportunity to be Mr. Mom. Two of the peewee players, one of whom was my son, were billeted with me in my Yellowknife residence for the weekend. It was to say, the very least, a hectic weekend. The players arrived late Friday evening, and Saturday began with a game at 12:30 pm. After the games the team went swimming. They would like to thank mayor Pat McMahon for providing us with the free swimming pool tickets.

The team then left the pool and went directly to the ice for a game at 4:30 pm.

Mr. Speaker, our team started off strong and took commanding leads in both games. Sadly, they eventually fell behind in goals to their much larger opponents. However, as I have said earlier, they continued to play with energy, endurance and effort. Following the last game on Saturday we took the team to McDonalds and later to see a movie, Aladdin. After the movie I took my billets to the video store to rent a couple of cartoons. However, Mr. Speaker, they were exhausted and were sound asleep before the first movie was over.

All in all it was an enjoyable day for these young people. I want to thank their coaches, Murray David and Rudolph Landry for their efforts and the Snowshoe Inn for providing our team with professional looking blue and white uniforms. Mr. Speaker, this is probably the first time our community has sent its youngest team to a territorial event. Perhaps some parents were concerned about the trip but I would just like to assure...

Mr. Gargan, your allotted time has expired.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Speaker, this is probably the first time that our community has sent its youngest team to a territorial event. Perhaps some parents were concerned regarding the trip, however, I would like to assure parents that the coaches and the support staff acted very responsibly and knew the whereabouts of each player at all times. Mahsi Cho, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take the opportunity to thank the Legislative Assembly for having some of my young constituents down here with the privilege of being pages this week, Fred Kataoyak, Barry Elias, Sandra Oloaryok, and Lucy Akoakhion. They are here for the rest of the week. I appreciate the opportunity.

---Applause

Thank you, Ms. Cournoyea. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over the weekend the Wood Buffalo Frolics were held in my constituency. I would like to take the time to commend, particularly Eugene Bourque, the town recreation director for coordinating such a successful event. Mr. Speaker, there were many different events held for both children and adults. It was very interesting to see the participation in the kiddies northern events and not only the adult northern events. There were very good events held over all. Unfortunately, I missed some of them due to previous commitments. However, I was able to observe many of them on Saturday and Sunday. I would like to commend not only the recreational director, but all the people who have placed forth their time and effort through volunteer services to make such a successful Wood Buffalo Frolics for the community of Fort Smith. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question, asked by Mr. Lewis on March 11, regarding the report of the industrial disputes inquiry at Royal Oak.

According to the most recent information received by the Government of the Northwest Territories, the federal Minister of Labour has not received a report by the industrial disputes inquiry looking into the Giant Mine labour dispute since an interim report was issued by the commissioners to the federal Minister on February 4, 1993, and released to the Government of the Northwest Territories February 5, 1993. Thank you.

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister responsible for environment a question. The people in the high Arctic still have a concern with regard to PanArctic dumping metal garbage into the ocean. That is a great concern of my constituents at this time. I wonder if the Minister can tell me today if the federal government has any response to your department with regard to dumping metal garbage into the ocean. Thank you.

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since last Friday when the House was sitting, I said I had a call into Minister Collins to see if she could find alternatives rather than dumping the scrap metal into the ocean. I spoke to her that night and my staff have been pursuing this issue with different departments, mostly Environment Canada. My executive assistant has been speaking to Ms. Collins' staff. As of 1:15 pm today, it was confirmed that the permit date will be

postponed from March 19 to April 15. This will allow the communities to have more input in the disposal of the scrap metal. The federal Environment, I was told, still has an opportunity to establish a board of review. I was told for the meeting of March 15 the officials of the federal department are still working on details of how they will conduct the review with the communities. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, we have been working with the departments so they can provide information on privatization in the areas they are responsible for. The papers have come back to Cabinet on a number of occasions. Because it was felt they were not complete, the departments continue to provide details on particular areas of concern which we have. The work is not complete, but it is not for lack of effort. We are hoping to get the information in such a way that it will be the best possible information. It is not that we are not trying, but it has not come back after being returned to the departments a number of times. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I will take that as notice and provide a response to that question tomorrow. Thank you.

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Government Services. Mr. Speaker, last year on June 29, specifically, I asked an oral question to the Minister of Government Services, however at the time the Minister of Government Services was absent so Mr. Pollard took my question as notice. I still have this question unanswered to date. I would like to ask the Minister of Government Services, according to Government Services the department imposes a licence fee to retailers in the NWT in respect to liquor licensing. What is the purpose of the licence fee which is imposed to retailers in the Northwest Territories?

Minister of Government Services, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will have to take that question as notice and get back to the Member.

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Finance. On Saturday, March 6, the Minister of Finance spoke to the Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce at their annual general meeting. Apparently the Minister spoke about the state of the economy in the territories, and about ways to invest in the development of new roads in the Northwest Territories. My question to the Minister is, I assume the Minister had some prepared text for his hour long presentation to the chamber. Can the Minister provide us with a copy of the presentation which he delivered to the Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce?

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, I did not speak from prepared text so I am unable to give the Members of the House prepared text. I just spoke off the cuff, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I heard that the Minister stated in his speech that this government might borrow up to $250 million to invest in new roads for resource development. Can the Minister confirm as to whether or not he stated that this government might borrow up to $250 million to invest in new roads?

Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if I could just set the scene, the question being asked was about a road from Yellowknife to the Arctic Ocean with a port at Coppermine. There was a question about how something that size gets paid for, and I explained that there has been some discussion between industry and the federal government and as far as the Government of the Northwest Territories is concerned, if it could be proven to me that it was going to benefit the Northwest Territories, if there was going to spin-offs for jobs, if there was going to be northern businesses put to work, if there was long-term economic benefits over a period of 20 or 25 years, then I would consider going to Cabinet with a recommendation that we borrow $250 million. That number was pulled out of the air, last July it was $200 million, but I think now it is closer to $250 million, Mr. Speaker, and it may be more, I do not know. I did mention that number and did indicate that I would be prepared, if all those conditions were met, to recommendation to Cabinet that we borrow against that specific project. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If this government was to borrow this money, obviously it would have to put up some kind of security. With the state of the budget and our fiscal framework the way it is, how does the Minister propose to provide the security for a $250 million loan?

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, I should clarify that Mr. Todd is the lead Minister in this particular project, which is the road north of Yellowknife. Specific to Mr. Koe's question of how we would borrow that money, the Government of the Northwest Territories does have borrowing capacity, Mr. Speaker, it does not have an accumulated debt and there is an agreement between the Northwest Territories and the federal government whereby we do have borrowing capacity. As to how much it would be, the number I placed upon it was $250 million. Mr. Todd's work may prove me wrong. Once we had ascertained the amount that would be required and once we had seen who else was in this arrangement with us, then it may be that there is an overall financing package for the total deal including the federal government. If we were to go it on our own, then obviously we would be looking around for where we could get the best deal for borrowing that kind of money, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Yes, I assume with the statements the Minister made that this would be a sign of the times with a new trend being pursued by this government in that major investments such as this, deals can be made and maybe we may go into a deficit by borrowing. Can the Minister confirm whether that is a new direction this government is taking in terms of future major investments?

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, it would not necessarily take us into a deficit position. We would be borrowing against the specific project. It would not be the first time we have done it, we bought the Power Corporation and we still owe money on that. We owe Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation $93 million and we are still paying on that. It would not be anything that has not been done in the past. I would point out to the House, Mr. Speaker, that there has been several innovative suggestions, one from the Dogrib communities about how this road could be built with us not necessarily having to borrow the money. There have been suggestions that arrangements could be made with industry. I know Mr. Todd has all of those suggestions before him and is combing through them to see whether he can put some arrangement together that will be innovative and will be least costly to us. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on Friday when we concluded question period I asked the Minister with regard to the inmates exchange program between the penitentiaries and corrections. The Minister responded by saying, under the agreement, when an inmate is transferred back up here, then they are under our laws and legislation. I would like to ask the Minister, under this agreement, how is a decision determined for who stays up here and who does not? Is it the Government of the Northwest Territories or is it the federal government that determines that?

Mr. Kakfwi.

Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the response I received from the Minister. Mr. Speaker, one of the things which is always said is that justice must not only be done but seen to be done. With regard to the Minister's response today, he said a first time offender. When you refer to a first time offender are you referring to one offence or continuous offences all bunched into one. You are looking at theft continued on a consistent base for a whole year. Is that part of the consideration? Are we looking at that all being bunched together? If that is precedent setting, I think anyone who is being charged with a driving offence should be given the same consideration.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am correct, with the Minister's response, this individual was charged for one charge as a first offence, as opposed to all of the mini-charges which she has committed.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Whitford.

Point of order, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My point of order is, is the Minister taking my questions as notice?

No, I have said a number of times in the House, unless a Minister specifically takes a question as notice then it is not considered taken as notice. It is still open to further questioning. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Whitford.

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We do not know the composition of the board of review at the present time. We do not know who is going to be involved. I was told the meetings will take place on March 25 in the two communities. The details are being worked out. The federal government is looking at a board of review. It is up to the Minister to establish a board of review. She assured me, last Friday, that the department and herself are going to work on the details. As soon as they know about the terms of reference which will be given to the board and their work plan, she will advise me. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If the board of review is established we will seek to have input and also, if we are allowed, place a person on the board. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At the beginning of January, 1992, I raised a concern from the residents of Sanikiluaq regarding the Department of Health. The previous ministry was not able to provide an adequate response. The residents of Sanikiluaq are not trying to put up opposition. I am not sure if they are going to get a regional hospital in the Keewatin. The residents of Sanikiluaq had a concern that if there was to be a regional hospital built in the Keewatin, they want to continue going to Kuujjuaq if they have to go to the hospital. They think there will be more inconveniences, especially when there are medevacs. I would like to ask the Minister of Health regarding the stage they are at now and if she can provide me with a response during this session. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will take his question as notice.

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Justice. Hopefully if he answers this question we can put this issue to rest. Mr. Speaker, my colleague for Deh Cho has said that justice must not only be done, but it must also be seen to be done. How is the Minister of Justice assuring the public of the Northwest Territories with regard to the issue of an inmate who misappropriated funds, in excess of a quarter of a million dollars of public funds, that justice is seen to be done? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately the Minister did not answer the question. However, Mr. Speaker, the Minister wanted to know why we do not feel that justice is being seen to be done. Mr. Speaker, we have an inmate who is enrolled in one of the educational facilities, Arctic College, taking management studies, who has been given a sentence of three years, and within six months this inmate is attending school. I am still trying to find out who paid the tuition when many other students in the Northwest Territories have to absorb their own tuition. I would like to ask the Minister if he would review his corrections division to give assurance to the public, in this particular case, that justice is seen to be done by the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, I want to make it explicitly clear to the Minister that I do not appreciate the imputative motive that he is making toward me, that an inmate should be dealt with in a harsher manner. I think the issue at hand, Mr. Speaker, is the fact that the public does not feel that justice is seen to be done. That is the issue at hand. I would like to ask the Minister, how can he assure the public, to avoid something such as this happening in the future, that justice is being done? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5, oral questions. Final supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, whether the Minister agrees with it or not, I am the spokesperson for the concerns that my constituents bring to me, whether you like it or not. I would like to ask the Minister and I certainly hope he takes the courtesy of trying to answer Member's questions on this side of the House, can he indicate to me how is his department assuring the public, particularly regarding the issue of an inmate who has misappropriated public funds in excess of a quarter of a million dollars, that justice is seen to be done under his department. Thank you.

I would like to remind Members there is nothing in our rules which compels a Minister to answer or compels a Minister to answer in a certain way. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5, oral questions. New question, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, I will try again with the Minister of Justice on a different topic. Mr. Speaker, a couple of week ago my colleague for Deh Cho raised a number of concerns, particularly about the way the legal aid program is operating in the Northwest Territories. He has concerns, I would like to state for the record that I agree with him, that there are certainly many problems with legal aid and that it seems to be time for the Minister to take some type of role in trying to correct them. Mr. Speaker, I am concerned about the procedures which are used for determining whether legal aid funding should be funding the court appeals of persons who have been found guilty of various offences. I certainly believe that at least in most cases the offenders original lawyer provides the executive director with a statement of opinion on whether there is grounds for an appeal. I have also been informed of different situations in which the appeal may be called for because of the apparent inadequacy of cases that have been produced by the lawyers themselves. Can the Minister of Justice indicate whether he would be willing to review the procedures used within the legal aid program for evaluating the funding of offenders' appeals? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Personnel. I would like to ask the Minister of Personnel when government employees are granted education leave, are there restrictions placed on whether they are able to take on full work with other governments, private sectors or organizations? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Personnel indicated that if educational leave is granted individuals should be going to an institution, and if they are taking another job under educational leave, if they can find the time, it would be frowned upon. Therefore, is he indicating to this House that educational leave is to be used for the sole purpose of an individual within the civil service to be taking time off for educational purposes to attend an educational institution? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Government Services. I know we have covered this area before but I just have to ask again. Several of the communities in the Deh Cho region and my constituency in Nahendeh, Jean Marie River, Trout Lake and Nahanni Butte, have very limited telephone service. They each have one community telephone and that is it. This seems to be the only region left in the Northwest Territories which does not have regular service. The residents of these communities have asked me for help and support in trying to do something about it. I know there is a plan with NorthwesTel to have telephone services improved, but it is in 1995 and 1996 and that is a long time to wait to get improved services. Could the Minister tell me if there is anything his department is doing presently to try to help provide necessary telephone services into these communities? Thank you.

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At present we are still working with NorthwesTel to review the various options which would enable these smaller communities to get this service as soon as possible. It is a basic service which all communities should have. Hopefully, we will be finished the review with NorthwesTel in the very near future. That will give me the information I need to take a package to Cabinet to get their approval. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister told me nearly the same thing last fall. I am wondering if the Minister could look at different ways in the interim to try to help out these communities receive better communication services. They have only one telephone, usually a pay phone in a public place and it is very difficult to communicate. They do not have a fax line and in this day and age of instant communication they need that so they know what is going on in the outside world, communication-wise. Could the Minister tell me if there is anything in the interim, immediately, that his department could do? Thank you.

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not aware of anything temporary that we could do. The costs are fairly great to supply services to these small unserviced communities, but I believe it is an essential service which the community should have and I will pursue it and get back to the Member within this week with a time frame. Is that satisfactory? Okay. Thanks.

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Justice a question with regard to the status of the director of corrections. When the Minister brought forth his budget he indicated that Mr. Dillon was acting director of corrections. I know this position was previously filled by Mr. DuPerron and I have not seen any announcement that he has left employment of the Government of the NWT. Can the Minister of Justice advise the House as to the status of the appointment of the director of corrections? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.