This is page numbers 971 - 1001 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Titus Allooloo, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Arngna'naaq, Mr. James Arvaluk, Hon. Michael Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Hon. Rebecca Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 971

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Good afternoon.

Speaker's Ruling

Before proceeding to Ministers' statements, I would like to take this opportunity to deliver my ruling on the points of order raised by Mr. Gargan and Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Both points of order centred around responses that were given by the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi in his capacity as Minister of Justice. Mrs. Marie-Jewell asked, "I would like to ask the Minister if he would review his corrections division to give assurance to the public, in this particular case, that justice is seen to be done by the people of the Northwest Territories." Mr. Kakfwi responded on page 2543 of unedited Hansard for March 15, 1993 that "My view is that there are two Members of this Legislature who have taken a particular interest in this inmate. I understand that there is a perception on their part that there is not enough punishment for the offence which was committed. I do not see it as a great public concern judging from the lack of interest in other quarters." Mr. Kakfwi subsequently stated on page 2544 in reply to a supplementary question by Mrs. Marie-Jewell that, "There seems to be a fundamental difference of opinion, since I do not see anyone calling for a public inquiry asking for this gross injustice to be dealt with. I do not see anyone asking for some specific focus to be dealt with. I do not agree with the Member that she is the sole spokesperson for what the public thinks should be done in any case." Mr. Gargan took exception to these remarks as imputing hidden motives to his prior questioning on this issue. Similarly, Mrs. Marie-Jewell took exception to these remarks on the basis that the Minister appeared to implicitly suggest that she was not representing the concerns of her constituents.

I have reviewed the rules of this Legislature, our customs and precedents, and Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms, 6th edition, in considering this issue. As both points of order were raised on the same issue, I will deal with both points of order in my ruling today.

I can find no expressed authority which would substantiate that either Member has raised a valid point of order. The Minister of Justice did not explicitly state that either Member had improper motives when questioning the Minister on this matter. Therefore, I rule that neither Mr. Gargan nor Mrs. Marie-Jewell have a point of order.

However, in reviewing unedited Hansard, I noted that the Minister, in responding to the Member's questions, made a series of statements that could be construed to be his personal value judgments. The status and authority of the position of Minister carries with it an extra burden of responsibility. A Minister's response to questions should be factual and be confined to stating matters of government policy. It is understood that when Ministers are answering questions, the opinions that they state are those of the government and not their personal opinions. Statements made by a Minister, that could be taken as personal opinions, may be viewed as provocative and may escalate the acrimony of a debate.

Finally, all Members of this House are representatives of their constituents. As representatives, we must assume in this House that they speak for, and on behalf of, their constituents at all times. Questions, whether asked by one or by many Members, should be responded to with equal respect. I urge all Members to be respectful of the legitimate views expressed by other Members in this House. Thank you.

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Todd.

Minister's Statement 61-12(3): Transportation Of Dangerous Goods Act - Annual Report 1992
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 971

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Later this afternoon I will table the annual report for 1992 on the Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act as required by section 62 of the act.

I hope the 1992 annual report will give the public confidence that the transportation of dangerous goods in the Northwest Territories is well regulated. The report lists the types and volumes of dangerous goods that move regularly and without incident on the highway systems. It describes the ongoing activities of the department's highway transport officers to enforce the Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act and the cooperative response they have received from industry to comply.

Minister's Statement 61-12(3): Transportation Of Dangerous Goods Act - Annual Report 1992
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 971

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Minister's Statement 62-12(3): Progress With The Community Transfer Initiative
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 971

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report today more than half of the communities in the Northwest Territories have expressed an interest in the

community transfer initiatives. Indications are virtually all communities want, at least, a general workshop on the subject.

Mr. Speaker, to date over 30 communities have requested information about the initiative and many are proceeding with further exploratory discussions. At least ten communities have begun preliminary work with the community transfer working group and government departments on general transfer planning or specific transfer ideas.

Earlier this session I tabled Tabled Document 76-12(3), the Community Transfer Initiative Contribution Policy and Directive, which will make it possible for communities to request funding to assist them with conducing research and other work association with becoming involved in the initiative. You will be asked to approve a supplementary estimate to fund community proposals during 1993-94. The policy sets a $50,000 limit on each community contribution in order to permit us to fund between ten and 15 proposals.

Community proposals are usually submitted to the Ministry of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs after discussions or workshops have been conducted. The community transfer working group evaluates proposals and makes recommendations for review by the community transfer initiative steering committee. Based on final approval, a contribution agreement is then signed with the community.

Proposals have also been received in 1992-93 and four communities were approved to receive funding through service contracts. The hamlet of Cape Dorset received $50,000, the town of Inuvik $18,000, the Tetlit Gwich'in Council $35,000 and the incorporated community of Arctic Red River $6,000 for their preliminary work. We are currently reviewing the Fort Good Hope and Pond Inlet proposals and a joint submission from the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation and the Gwich'in Tribal Council.

The turnover of the gas/water/sewage system to the town of Norman Wells is near completion. The Gwich'in are pursuing several transfer related initiatives while also developing a general framework agreement for community transfers.

Within government, the community transfer working group is continuing to brief departmental, regional and community GNWT staff at every opportunity. Departments and regional offices are in the process of appointing lead contacts and organizing themselves to participate in the initiative with the coordination of the community transfer working group.

Efforts have begun at headquarters and in the regional offices to compile information regarding GNWT program and service delivery for each community. This information is used by communities in deciding whether or not they wish to take on the responsibility for design and delivery of specific program areas.

As the first few communities proceed toward transfer agreements utilizing their own approaches, the parameters of the initiative and the manner in which we will resolve the many issues involved will become clearer. It is this evolutionary process we have encouraged and I believe the interest and involvement of communities to date proves this is the correct approach. I encourage honourable Members to attend community workshops whenever they have an opportunity.

Later today, I will table a chart which shows whether the community transfer working group has conducted community workshops and information sessions. Thank you.

---Applause

Minister's Statement 62-12(3): Progress With The Community Transfer Initiative
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 972

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Koe.

Social Assistance Food Allowances
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 972

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to speak about the social assistance food allowances. Mr. Speaker, many citizens of the Northwest Territories, many honourable Members of this House, and now recently the Status of Women's Council of the Northwest Territories have voiced their concerns about the current inadequate levels of social assistance food allowances.

As of October, 1992, the social assistance allowances for a basket of food for a family of four people for one month is equivalent to about 60 per cent of the actual cost. This means that a family, theoretically, can only eat for part of a month or do without certain meals or snacks each day. Mr. Speaker, this is unacceptable.

The current Minister of Social Services has stated that there will be no increases in the food allowances in the fiscal year. How does she expect people, especially ones with no other alternatives, to maintain a livelihood at the current food rates? The Status of Women Council states in a recent issues letter, one which I will be tabling later today, "The present system not only condemns recipients to a life-style well below the poverty line, it effectively kills any incentive people may have to help themselves." Mr. Speaker, our people are crying for help and it is up to this government to seriously consider their pleas. Mahsi.

Social Assistance Food Allowances
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 972

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Justice Minister's Responses To Questions Re Diane Doyle
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 972

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over the past few weeks I have raised with the Minister of Justice the issue of what is perceived as preferential treatment given to an inmate of the territorial corrections centre in Fort Smith. I have had to resort to asking questions over and over again to the Minister, because of the inadequacy of the responses which I have received.

Mr. Speaker, my constituents have voiced their concerns loudly to me. They see an inmate who was very recently convicted, as of a result of a highly public fraud case, being granted the privilege of attending a management studies program at Arctic College. Make no mistake about it, Mr. Speaker, attendance at a post-secondary institution is a privilege for many of my constituents.

My questions to the Minister of Justice on this issue are not intended to suggest that a particular inmate should be given harsh treatment or treated differently from other inmates.

Rather, my questions are directed to discover the criteria and policies currently in place regarding any inmate who wishes to pursue post-secondary education, to enter into the work release program, or to leave a correctional centre for any reason. I recognize that each case must be dealt with its own merits, however there must be some criteria, some guidelines, to guide the civil servants in the corrections division who make decisions in this area. Their decisions can not be made in a vacuum.

Mr. Speaker, until I receive a satisfactory answer from the Minister, I will continue to pursue the issue regarding policies and criteria within the corrections division. I recognize the Minister has forwarded some information today, and I will be reviewing this information before I proceed with further questioning. Thank you.

---Applause

Justice Minister's Responses To Questions Re Diane Doyle
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 973

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Winter Cities Forum, 1993
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 973

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in January of 1991, Yellowknife's mayor, Pat McMahon, and her delegation attended the winter city forum in Sault Sainte Marie, Ontario, where they were successful in their bid to bring the winter cities association conference to Yellowknife.

The winter cities association mission statement is geared towards a better winter life-style. The common goal of transforming winter from an obstacle into an economic opportunity and making winter cities more liveable emerged simultaneous in cities as far flung as Minneapolis, Sapporo, Toronto, Edmonton and Yellowknife. The first conference was organized in 1978 in Minneapolis. The first international conference was hosted by Sapporo, Japan with the theme of "light must come from the north."

The theme of the conference this year is, "north in transition, remedies, not problems." It will take place March 22 to 25, 1993, and bring together delegates from: Russia, China, Denmark, Norway, Alaska, Yukon, the southern United States, across Canada and the Northwest Territories. Panel discussions and workshops will be centred around three sub-themes: transportation - the key to northern economic development; tourism in the north - trends and opportunities; and, northern settlements - design and the use of innovative technologies.

Concurrent with the conference, Mr. Speaker, a trade show will be held at the Yellowknife community arena. Exhibitors from many companies and organizations interested in the north will be displaying their special talents and unique products. The contacts, exchanges of information, development of new ideas, promotion of services, business ventures and opportunities to learn about some of the challenges and opportunities in the north that will be generated from an event such as this will be endless. I would encourage Members of this House to attend winter cities forum, 1993, and visit the trade show in the Yellowknife community arena to better accommodate the public...

Winter Cities Forum, 1993
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 973

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. I would like to commend you on your traditional Irish vest. Mr. Lewis, Members' statements.

NWT Women's Property Rights After Divorce
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 973

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As Members in this Assembly, we are expected to deal with issues which are of interest to all people of the Northwest Territories. Members' statements give us the opportunity to address specific constituency issues.

Mr. Speaker, a family law review was done in 1988, since it was clear that the Northwest Territories was lagging far behind other jurisdictions in creating modern up-to-date legislation. I know the Special Committee on Health and Social Services feels we cannot wait much longer for changes to legislation and will make recommendations for change.

My major concern, however, over the past five years, Mr. Speaker, has been on property rights for women. There seems to be no guidelines for judges in determining the division of property following divorce. One of my constituents, Mrs. Marie Ruman, who is now dead, came to see me regularly and was persuasive in her arguments that in the area of property rights, Northwest Territories women did not enjoy the same equality as women in other parts of Canada. Other women in recent months have urged me to pursue this issue with government in this Assembly. It is a major issue for women, which is sometimes overshadowed by the more dramatic abuses of women that appear in our newspapers every day. I shall introduce a motion in this Assembly next week urging the government to complete its family law review, and to propose legislation which is up-to-date and reflects modern reality. Thank you.

NWT Women's Property Rights After Divorce
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 973

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. I would like to take this opportunity to recognize in the gallery, Mr. Jack Anawak, Member of Parliament for the Nunatsiaq riding.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Member's Statement Congratulating Fort Simpson's First Grade 12 Graduating Class
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 973

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to rise in this Assembly today to speak about the first grade 12 graduating class from Thomas Simpson School in Fort Simpson.

---Applause

This graduation in Fort Simpson is possible because of the grade extension initiative undertaken by the Department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs. Mr. Speaker, this is an historic event. The students should be congratulated for their success. These graduates are setting the example in leading the way for young students from the region.

On June 5 and 6 of this year the grade 12 graduating class will be holding its graduation ceremonies. The students, parents and other interested parties have been working very hard, since November of 1992, to raise their own money to hold this exciting event. Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to say that the graduating committee has invited the Minister responsible and myself to participate in the celebration of this special event. As a Member of this Legislative Assembly, I would like to convey best wishes for the future success to these proud students and their parents. Mahsi Cho.

Member's Statement Congratulating Fort Simpson's First Grade 12 Graduating Class
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 974

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 475-12(3): Policy For Lottery Licences
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 974

John Todd Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker, I have a return to a question, asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on March 12, related to policy for lottery licences.

Lottery licences are not issued to native bands or Metis locals. Lottery licences may be issued to recreation or cultural committees set up by these organizations. When initial applications for licences are received from such recreational or cultural committees, information on the membership of the committee is provided by the applicant and must not be restricted to a particular group of people.

The Elks and Legion service clubs are open for membership to the general public.

To be considered charitable under the NWT Lotteries Act, organizations must be run substantially by volunteer efforts for the benefit of others and not for self-help purposes or personal benefit for members. Such organizations must provide a benefit to a significant portion of the community and must be open for membership to all members of the general public.

The application from the Fort Smith Warriors hockey team for a licence to raise funds to host an all-native hockey tournament was denied on the same grounds as an application from the Fire Fighters curling association to host a national fire fighters curling bonspiel. In both cases, membership of these groups were restricted and the use of the proceeds of the lottery events was considered to be of a self-help nature.

Return To Question 475-12(3): Policy For Lottery Licences
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 974

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 465-12(3): Family Violence Prevention Workshops
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 974

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question 465-12(3), asked by Mr. Charles Dent on March 11, 1993, regarding family violence prevention workshops.

The Department of Social Services has been offering training sessions to community workers in the areas of family violence and child sexual abuse. Most of the training initiatives are directed at shelter workers, community social workers, RCMP, mental health specialists and other agencies working in the area of domestic violence. The training session in Rankin Inlet is an example of the department's commitment for training initiatives for community workers in the areas of child sexual abuse and/or family violence.

A counselling level I course will be held in Yellowknife on March 16 to 25, 1993. Nine participants from various communities in the Northwest Territories will attend this session which is part of an ongoing four year training initiative for shelter workers. In the fiscal year 1993-94, eight to ten training sessions will be held in various regions for shelter workers. These sessions are specifically designed for community family violence workers and include sessions on healing, counselling techniques and an overview of family violence.

On March 21 to 26, 1993, there will be a conference on family violence and child sexual abuse entitled "Strengthening Our Communities." This conference will be held in Fort Simpson and will provide community workers with an understanding of child sexual abuse from an aboriginal perspective. These workshops are ongoing and held in most communities throughout the Northwest Territories. A conference will be held in Hay River on April 3 to 6, 1993, entitled "The Spirit of Northern Healing." Family violence and child sexual abuse will be addressed at this conference. The Department of Social Services is contributing to this conference which is a cooperative effort between many departments and agencies. An inter-agency workshop for the Baffin region is being planned for some time in the coming year.

As you can see, Mr. Speaker, the Department of Social Services is committed to providing community workers with the necessary skills and training to address family violence and child sexual abuse at the community level. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have more returns to make, if I may.

Return To Question 465-12(3): Family Violence Prevention Workshops
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 974

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Continue, Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 500-12(3): Status Of New Health Facility For Inuvik Region
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 974

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question 500-12(3), asked by Mr. Koe on March 16, 1993, regarding status of a new health facility for the Inuvik region.

Mr. Speaker, representatives of the Inuvik regional health board and the Department of Health met on February 25, 1993, to commence development of a health plan for the Inuvik region.

The Inuvik regional health board will take the lead role for the development of the plan in collaboration with the Shihta regional and Beaufort/Delta community leaders. The Department of Health will provide the support needed for the planning process, which is to be completed in April, 1994. Specific planning for the replacement of the Inuvik regional hospital will begin after the regional health plan is completed.

Return To Question 504-12(3): Status Of Meeting Re X-ray Machine At Inuvik Hospital
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 974

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

I have a return to Question 504-12(3), asked by Mr. Koe on March 16, 1993, regarding status of meeting re X-ray machine at Inuvik regional hospital.

Mr. Speaker, on February 25, 1993, members of the Inuvik regional health board and the Departments of Health and Government Services and Public Works met to develop a plan of action for the replacement of the X-ray machine at the Inuvik regional hospital. It is proposed that the replacement unit be installed and be operating by October, 1993. In the meantime, all X-ray units at the Inuvik regional hospital are fully operational and are being used in accordance with the prescribed procedures. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 504-12(3): Status Of Meeting Re X-ray Machine At Inuvik Hospital
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 975

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Allooloo.

Further Return To Question 244-12(3): Tender For Fire Suppression
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 975

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have return to oral Question 244-12(3), asked by Mr. Gargan on February 17, 1993, with respect to tender for fire suppression.

The contract with Evergreen Forestry Management Ltd. has been in existence since 1988 and will expire on September 3, 1993.

I am pleased with the level of service provided by the company and am aware of the value of this contract to the native people of Fort Providence and Hay River. There is an excellent working relationship with the company. It is my intention to enter into a long-term sole source contract with Evergreen Forestry Management Ltd. after the 1993 fire season. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 244-12(3): Tender For Fire Suppression
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 975

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 975

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Premier. Mr. Speaker, I heard rumours about a pending transfer of a division from one department moving to another. I have heard that the parks division will be transferred from the Department of Economic Development and Tourism to the Department of Renewable Resources. The transfer is to be done by July 1, 1993. Can the Premier verify whether or not the parks division will be transferred from the Department of Economic Development and Tourism and moved to the Department of Renewable Resources?

Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 975

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 975

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the statement is true and we are working to put parks into the Department of Renewable Resources. However, Mr. Speaker, I want to say that this is not a new issue. This discussion of where parks could best fit has been taking place for a number of years. So, this is not a new issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 975

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 975

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If it is not new, I wonder why we were not informed. We have just recently approved the budgets for Economic Development and Tourism and Renewable Resources, and none of this information was disclosed. I am wondering what budgetary arrangements are going to be made to implement this transfer.

Supplementary To Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 975

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea.

Further Return To Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 975

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, in the reorganizing of departments, it is not the intention that it would cost the government any additional money. The due process will be used to move responsibility from one department to the other, but we are not talking about new funding requirements. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 975

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 975

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Premier says that this has been a long time in the planning, but a decision such as this that has not been disclosed in the current budget, seems to me to be made hastily and secretively. What consultation has taken place leading up to making this decision to transfer this division?

Supplementary To Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 975

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea.

Further Return To Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 975

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, just to make a correction, I said this is not a new topic of discussion. For a number of years, there has always been a question of where the best place for various responsibilities would be within the Government of the Northwest Territories. It is not a new topic. This has been discussed over a number of years, but in terms of the decision to move the responsibility, this is an ongoing issue. The total plan has not been concluded yet. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 975

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Final supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 975

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure if there are other divisions which are going to be moved or transferred similar to this, but on this particular division, when did the government intend to notify Members of the Assembly of this transfer?

Supplementary To Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 975

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea.

Further Return To Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, this is an internal issue. Once we had concluded the plans, we did intend to move it through the planning group, but we have not concluded any of the plans yet, so it is premature to have anything on the table because the work has not been done at this point in time. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Question 512-12(3): Status Of Parks Division Transfer
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

Question 513-12(3): Amendments To Legislation Re Substance Abuse
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Social Services. In 1992, I raised a concern regarding problems in the north with substance abuse. Can a law be put forward for condemnation of substance abuse? We have lost quite a few lives to substance abuse. It was only last fall we lost a person in our community to this problem. I would like this to be considered in the future, whether there could be an act passed to deal with this problem. Has anything been done, to date, with regard to making laws pertaining to substance abuse problems? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 513-12(3): Amendments To Legislation Re Substance Abuse
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 513-12(3): Amendments To Legislation Re Substance Abuse
Question 513-12(3): Amendments To Legislation Re Substance Abuse
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To date, no laws have been passed with regard to this problem. However, I will work with my officials. There is a conference this weekend which will talk about problems in the communities. They will be making recommendations as to how these problems should be dealt with at the community level. After I receive some responses from the conference, I will be better able to answer your question. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 513-12(3): Amendments To Legislation Re Substance Abuse
Question 513-12(3): Amendments To Legislation Re Substance Abuse
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Pudlat.

Supplementary To Question 513-12(3): Amendments To Legislation Re Substance Abuse
Question 513-12(3): Amendments To Legislation Re Substance Abuse
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. After you have worked with the people from the conference, especially for Baffin South, perhaps you could make an official response. They expect me to give them a response on this. I would like you to make sure I receive a response once you have heard from the people attending the conference. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 513-12(3): Amendments To Legislation Re Substance Abuse
Question 513-12(3): Amendments To Legislation Re Substance Abuse
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 513-12(3): Amendments To Legislation Re Substance Abuse
Question 513-12(3): Amendments To Legislation Re Substance Abuse
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Substance abuse is a big problem. If acts were to be passed regarding this, we would need to do a great deal of planning and much work before hand. My department and I will work closely at the community level, and I will provide the Member for Baffin South with a better response. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 513-12(3): Amendments To Legislation Re Substance Abuse
Question 513-12(3): Amendments To Legislation Re Substance Abuse
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Premier. Mr. Speaker, I am always pleased to see the government recognize the years of service that many of our employees give to the government. I am certainly supportive of the system we have of recognizing these individuals through certificates, pins and award dinners. In recognizing these achievements, does the Cabinet have Ministers attend the long service award dinners?

Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, as a matter of informal policy, we do encourage Ministers to attend the long service award dinners. I know it is important. As well, we try to inform the Members of the Legislative Assembly, through the regional directors, when these occasions are staged for the recognition of employees. We try to attend these occasions. Thank you.

Return To Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Is it normal practice to send the public affairs officer from the Premiers' press secretary's office to attend these dinners?

Supplementary To Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea.

Further Return To Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, not to my knowledge.

Further Return To Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

In reviewing the Mackenzie Times of March 10, I understand the Minister of Renewable Resources attended the long service awards dinner in Fort Simpson. I always thought it was the practice of the Minister of Personnel to attempt to attend these dinners. However, sometimes I know that one Minister covers for another. Could the Minister indicate if a charter was used to take the Minister and his party to the Fort Simpson long service awards dinner.

Supplementary To Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 976

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier.

Supplementary To Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I will take the question as notice.

Supplementary To Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Question 514-12(3): Attendance Of Ministers At Long Service Awards Dinners
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

Question 515-12(3): Establishment Of Cbc Radio In Kitikmeot
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister responsible for Culture and Communications. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to ask a question while we have the honourable MP in attendance in the public gallery. Mr. Speaker, the Kitikmeot region is the only region in the eastern Arctic that does not have CBC Radio station. Would the honourable Minister undertake to look into the possibility of establishing CBC regional radio operations in the Kitikmeot region? Thank you.

Question 515-12(3): Establishment Of Cbc Radio In Kitikmeot
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 515-12(3): Establishment Of Cbc Radio In Kitikmeot
Question 515-12(3): Establishment Of Cbc Radio In Kitikmeot
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, yes.

Return To Question 515-12(3): Establishment Of Cbc Radio In Kitikmeot
Question 515-12(3): Establishment Of Cbc Radio In Kitikmeot
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Question 516-12(3): Community Participation In Policy Development
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. On February 23, I expressed my concerns about the number of annual meetings proposed by the Housing Corporation and, the input of members of the community into the Housing Corporation's programs and policies. Mr. Speaker, it is the people in the community who will be affected by the Housing Corporation's programs and they must have an effect on these policies made. They do not attend meetings just to blow steam or socialize, they want to have some kind of say and some kind of impact. So, I asked the Minister, on that date, how concerns from the community and district meetings would be conveyed to the Housing Corporation's senior management to impact on policy development. The Minister took the question as notice.

Now, after having received approval for his new plans and his new working committee, can the Minister tell me how he expects those community concerns will be conveyed to the senior management so that they can affect policy development?

Question 516-12(3): Community Participation In Policy Development
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 516-12(3): Community Participation In Policy Development
Question 516-12(3): Community Participation In Policy Development
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The communities should have a yearly meeting to talk about policies and programs. Then, from that yearly meeting, make recommendations at the regional meeting that is going to be held yearly. They would send representation to the regional meeting and those recommendations would be forwarded to the advisory committee on housing. Thank you.

Return To Question 516-12(3): Community Participation In Policy Development
Question 516-12(3): Community Participation In Policy Development
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

Question 517-12(3): Request For Lake Harbour Grade Extension
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, I would like to thank the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs with regard to the question I asked recently about grade extensions. I would like to ask another question. In Lake Harbour, they want grade extensions also. I talked with an individual yesterday, and I have to get this request done before the beginning of the new school year. I have not received a response from the Minister as of yet. Will the Minister be approving the grade extension requested by the community of Lake Harbour? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 517-12(3): Request For Lake Harbour Grade Extension
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 517-12(3): Request For Lake Harbour Grade Extension
Question 517-12(3): Request For Lake Harbour Grade Extension
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, the matter of grade extensions requires the support and approval of the Baffin regional education board. My suggestion to the honourable Member, and if I can be of assistance to him, will be to work with the board so we can properly organize the school year so all the requirements to accommodate his grade extensions will be met, but it requires the Member to work with and through the Baffin divisional education board. Once that approval is received, normally I will accept the recommendation that is made.

Return To Question 517-12(3): Request For Lake Harbour Grade Extension
Question 517-12(3): Request For Lake Harbour Grade Extension
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Pudlat.

Supplementary To Question 517-12(3): Request For Lake Harbour Grade Extension
Question 517-12(3): Request For Lake Harbour Grade Extension
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When the chairman of the Baffin regional education board was here, I spoke to him and he asked me to ask the question to the Minister. I have talked with the chairman of the Baffin divisional board of education, and there is some information that he was not clear on, so that is why I am asking the Minister of Education. Perhaps the Minister could look into this and get back to me. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 517-12(3): Request For Lake Harbour Grade Extension
Question 517-12(3): Request For Lake Harbour Grade Extension
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 517-12(3): Request For Lake Harbour Grade Extension
Question 517-12(3): Request For Lake Harbour Grade Extension
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, yes, I will look into the matter. In fact, I will speak to the chairman of the Baffin divisional board of education.

Further Return To Question 517-12(3): Request For Lake Harbour Grade Extension
Question 517-12(3): Request For Lake Harbour Grade Extension
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral question. Mr. Zoe.

Question 518-12(3): Participation Of NWT Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 977

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, my question will be directed to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Every two years, summer games are held in various locations across North America. I believe they are called north American aboriginal summer games. This year, these games are being held in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan. Members are aware that this year has also been declared the year of indigenous people, worldwide. It is important, this year in particular, to participate in sports and cultural events for aboriginal people. Mr. Speaker, I understand the Yukon territory is sending approximately 125 athletes to participate in these games in Prince Albert. Can the Minister assure the House that athletes of the Northwest Territories will be given the opportunity to participate in this international sporting event?

Question 518-12(3): Participation Of NWT Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 978

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo.

Return To Question 518-12(3): Participation Of Nwt Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Question 518-12(3): Participation Of NWT Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 978

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Currently, my department is working with Sport North to see if we can take part in these games. Mr. Speaker, as you know, the government has devolved some of its responsibilities over to Sport North with regard to sporting events such as Arctic winter games, Canada games and summer games. I will keep the House informed. If the House is not sitting, I will write to all Members of this House to inform them of the participation of Northwest Territories athletes in these games. Thank you.

Return To Question 518-12(3): Participation Of Nwt Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Question 518-12(3): Participation Of NWT Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 978

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Zoe.

Supplementary To Question 518-12(3): Participation Of Nwt Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Question 518-12(3): Participation Of NWT Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 978

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Speaker, the Minister indicated he will keep us informed about our participation at this sporting event. I know there are young athletes, particularly in my area, who are very interested in participating in the aboriginal summer games. I am told these athletes are very good. I would expect they can represent the territories well, particularly in their age category. I am sure there are other groups across the territories that are also interested in competing at these games. Do we have any plans in place as to how we are going to put our NWT delegation together? Do we have any plans in existence now, since the department is aware of this event?

Supplementary To Question 518-12(3): Participation Of Nwt Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Question 518-12(3): Participation Of NWT Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 978

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo.

Further Return To Question 518-12(3): Participation Of Nwt Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Question 518-12(3): Participation Of NWT Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 978

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, these events which are taking place in Canada and Northwest Territories are normally administered by Sport North. I will get back to the Member tomorrow to see if NWT athletes will be involved in these games. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 518-12(3): Participation Of Nwt Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Question 518-12(3): Participation Of NWT Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 978

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Zoe.

Supplementary To Question 518-12(3): Participation Of Nwt Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Question 518-12(3): Participation Of NWT Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 978

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate what the Minister is saying, but the Minister has to recognize this event is approaching upon us very rapidly. I am not sure if Sport North or the government will have time to put a delegation together from the territories. Will these athletes have to compete at community, regional and territorial levels, similar to try-outs for Arctic winter games? I do not believe there is going to be sufficient time to do all of this. I wonder if Sport North or the department has looked at this whole issue as to how we are going to participate in the aboriginal games in Saskatchewan. It is strictly for aboriginal participation. The NWT has a high aboriginal content, so I hope the Minister would send a delegation to participate in these games.

Supplementary To Question 518-12(3): Participation Of Nwt Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Question 518-12(3): Participation Of NWT Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 978

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo.

Further Return To Question 518-12(3): Participation Of Nwt Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Question 518-12(3): Participation Of NWT Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 978

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Mr. Speaker, I did not hear a question. I heard a statement and advice. Mr. Speaker, I will take the Member's advice very seriously and get back to the Member tomorrow.

Further Return To Question 518-12(3): Participation Of Nwt Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Question 518-12(3): Participation Of NWT Athletes At North American Aboriginal Summer Games
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 978

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Allooloo. The question was lost in the long preamble. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 978

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Justice, following up from my colleague from Yellowknife Centre. Mr. Speaker, on Monday, December 9, 1991, I requested in this House the status of the family law review. That was taken as notice. On Tuesday, February 25, 1992, I again requested the status of the family law review. I was told it would be dealt with by the end of the fiscal year, and that I would be receiving information on it. Again, it was taken as notice. Wednesday, March 4, 1992, I again asked for the status of the family law review. Again, I was told that it was taken as notice and it would be towards the end of the year. On Friday, March 27, I asked for the status of the report for 1992, how it was coming along because it was getting near to the end of the fiscal year, and again this question was taken as notice. On Thursday, April 2, 1992, it was indicated that the family law review was in its final stages before the report was submitted and there was no further information granted. On Thursday, September 17, 1992 the status of the family law review was requested again, and the question was taken as notice, we did not get any further ahead. Mr. Speaker, on Thursday, September 17, 1992, with the regard to the family law review, my colleague, Mr. Arngna'naaq, asked the Minister of Justice a question regarding the family law review. The Minister of Justice indicated the report would be tabled. I would like to ask the Minister, does he have the family law review report ready to be tabled in this House? Thank you.

Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 978

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 978

Return To Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 978

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 979

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, since I have asked six times in this House and six times the question has been taken as notice, and because I have finally been told the report is coming, when does the Minister intend to table the family review report? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 979

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 979

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Very soon.

Further Return To Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 979

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 979

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, will the Minister make a commitment to this House to table the family law review before the end of this session? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 979

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 979

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I will do that.

Further Return To Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Question 519-12(3): Status Of Family Law Review
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 979

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

Return To Written Question 27-12(3): GNWT Contracts With Robinson Enterprises Ltd.
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 979

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, this is a return to Written Question 27-12(3), asked by Mr. Zoe to the Minister of Government Services and Public Works, regarding the contracts awarded to Robinson Enterprises Ltd., RTL.

Following is a record of contracts awarded to Robinson Enterprises Limited, RTL, from fiscal years 1983-84 to 1992-93 inclusive, by the Department of Government Services and Public Works and its predecessors.

1983-94

Rental and operation of backhoe, Dettah access road, $1,750; materials testing facility, Yellowknife, $30,570; granular base application, Ingraham Trail, $234,349; equipment rental, various, $1,200; grading/granular base and asphalt, Rae access road, $596,949; campground upgrading, Prelude Lake, $17,965; bailey bridge, kilometres 55 to highway 4, Cameron River, $12,244; crushing, kilometres 0 to 84, highway 1, $1,428,000; concession building pad, Long Lake, $15,900; Dettah access road, Dettah, $673,185; equipment rental, various, $4,000; sewer/water line repair, various headquarters, $20,000.

1984/85

Asphalt surface treatment kilometre 2 to 19, Ingraham Trail, $1,073,098; highway 3 grade repairs, Rae access road, $167,640; construction of turnaround, Edzo, $2,370; sample quarrying and hauling, highway 1, $27,360; " as and when" equipment rental, Yellowknife, $6,000; equipment rental, Hay River, $4,600; heavy excavation equipment rental, Edzo, $2,240; crusher plant operation, Yellowknife, $10,500; park site preparation, Yellowknife, $15,900.

1985/86

Supply and install 52 traffic signs, Rae-Edzo, $8,944; fencing and miscellaneous work, Fort Rae, $65,483; load/haul/spread sandy material, Dettah access road, $29,025; backhoe rental, Dettah access road, $1,000; assist ice trapped ferry, Fort Providence, $10,344; aggregate crushing, highway 3, $224,000; gravel resurfacing, highway 3, $97,480; reconstruction kilometre 19 to 28.4, Ingraham Trail, $970,162; trailer dump station, Prelude Lake, $28,865.

1986/87

Gravel resurfacing, highway 4, $62,063; security fence, north ferry loading, Fort Providence, $23,840; repairs, Ingraham Trail, $2,000; scarification and resurfacing roads, Dettah, $31,805; rock quarrying and crushing, Ingraham Trail, $482,080; granular investigation, Fort Rae, $4,640; water supply, Snowdrift, $407,158; highway 3 repairs and access road, Rae, $407,150; drilling test holes in parking lot, Prelude Lake, $1,250; sheet pile walls restoration, Dory Point, $132,104; aggregate crushing, highway 5, $93,750; supply and erect office complex, Hay River, $60,600; removal of water tap houses, Rae, $22,375; sewer main excavation/materials, Rae-Edzo, $10,000; highway maintenance, three years, Liard Highway, $1,674,020; resurfacing, highway 3, $78,370.

1986/87 - Robinson's Trucking/Stan Dean & Sons Ltd. (A Joint Venture)

Paving, highway 2, $2,649,060.

1987/88

Resurfacing, Yellowknife, $4,875; landscaping PWNHC, Yellowknife, $16,754; dust control program, Dettah, $23,556; north ferry landing repairs, Fort Providence, $32,000; road construction, Rae-Edzo, $8,500; bank stabilization, Rae-Edzo, $7,675; test hole excavation, Rae-Edzo, $2,810; dozer rental, highway 1, various Fort Smith, $4,850; crush/stockpile/bedrock, various Fort Smith, $1,081,250; crushing highways 1 and 7, various Fort Smith, $1,025,000; crushing highway 5, various, Fort Smith, $109,850; equipment rental, various, Fort Smith, $10,000; crushed granular product, various, Kitikmeot, $409,956; crushing, highway 3, Yellowknife, $737,500.

1988/89

Phase II land development, Fort Rae, $141,750; repairs highway 3, kilometre 241.6, Edzo, $11,140.

1989/90

Rainbow Valley lot 500 access road, Yellowknife, $54,390; water treatment plant, Fort McPherson, $445,936.

1990/91

Sewage treatment/road related works, Dettah, $189,578; water/sewer system improvements, Fort McPherson, $1,000,196; drill, blast and stockpile granular material, Coppermine, $528,150.

1991/92

Land development, Dettah, $121,387; access road, Legislative Assembly, Yellowknife, $230,610; water and sewage improvements, Fort McPherson, $790,409.

1992/93

Land development, area I and II, Rae, $94,915; fuel haul, Lac La Martre/Rae Lakes/Jean Marie River/Trout Lake, $72,457.

Following is a record of contracts awarded to Robinson Enterprises Limited, RTL from fiscal years 1989/90 to 1992/93 inclusive, by the Department of Transportation.

1989/90

Crush/haul/stockpile granular material, highway 3, $2,347,340; grade all rental, Ingraham Trail, $10,000; bridge signing, Ingraham Trail, $5,995; drill, blast and crush, highway 1, $1,512,080; rental hydraulic excavator, Dory Point ferry crossing, $17,368.

1990/91

Access area construction, Fred Henne Park, $184,060; gravel resurfacing, highway 3, $262,504; gravel resurfacing, highway 5, $135,556; culvert replacement, highway 3, $109,263; winter road construction/maintenance, Rae Lakes-Lac La Martre, $243,600; crush/haul/stockpile granular material, highway 7, $296,900.

1991/92

Reconstruction, Mackenzie Highway, $3,335,573; crushed gravel production, Dempster Highway 8, $563,460; resurfacing, highway 3, $213,168; aggregate crushing, highway 5, $64,640; gravel resurfacing, highway 1 and 7, $28,163; resurfacing, highway 3, $34,565; rental of gravel resurfacing equipment, highway 4, $58,954; highway surface improvement, highways 1, 3, 4 and 5, $961,200; widening and upgrading, highway 3, $910,121; supply gravel, highway 4, 23,000; equipment rental for culvert replacement, highway 4, $66,000; excavate/load/haul/stockpile material, highway 1 and 3, $1,124,000; equipment rental, highway 3, $9,600; supply and stockpile crushed aggregate, Yellowknife, $22,500, winter road construction/maintenance, Rae Lakes-Lac La Martre, $288,350, haul 2 tandem trucks, Edmonton to Hay River, $2,350.

1992/93

Haul and spread water for road maintenance, Yellowknife area, $86,400; supply/delivery crushed aggregate, Yellowknife, $34,375; airport and access road construction, Lac La Martre, $1,874,514; highway reconstruction, Mackenzie Highway, $2,676,966; asphalt concrete paving, highway 3, $465,043; crushing/granular materials, Paulatuk, $567,640; stabilization and asphaltic treatment, Mackenzie Highway 1, $1,545,602; lease of incinerator, Dory point camp, $1,000; haulout/improvements/earthworks, Liard ferry crossing, $154,100; supply and operation of backhoe, Yellowknife access road, $3,000; installation of meteorology station, Lac La Martre, $7,000; equipment rental, Yellowknife, $3,300; hauling/stockpiling granular material, highway 3, $483,625; supply/apply 1800 tonnes DL10, highways 1 and 3, $525,240; gravel/resurfacing, highways 3 and 4, $132,107; crush/stockpile granular material, highway 3, $32,400; crush/stockpile aggregate, highway 3, $242,900; haul gravel, White Beach to Yellowknife, $1,716; backhoe rental for culvert installation, Yellowknife, $5,500; drilling/blasting limestone bedrock, highway 3, $103,900.

Return To Written Question 28-12(3): Nwtpc Contracts With Robinson Enterprises Ltd.
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 979

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Return to Written Question 28-12(3), asked by Mr. Zoe to the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation, concerning NWTPC contracts with RTL, Robinson Enterprises Ltd.

Since transfer from the federal government on May 5, 1988, the Northwest Territories Power Corporation has entered one contract with RTL, Robinson Enterprises Ltd.

Dated February 15, 1989, this contract was the opening and maintenance of a winter road, and the ripping, loading, hauling and stockpiling of 10,000 cubic yards of gravel from the Strutt Lake Gravel pit.

Payments against this contract totalled $203,750.

Return To Written Question 28-12(3): Nwtpc Contracts With Robinson Enterprises Ltd.
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 980

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you. Before I go to the next agenda item, I have received the following message from the Honourable Daniel Norris, Commissioner of the Northwest Territories, "Dear Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise that I recommend to the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories the passage of Bill 24, Write-off Of Debts Act, 1993, during the Third Session of the 12th Legislative Assembly."

Item 8, Replies to Opening Address. Mr. Lewis.

Item 8: Replies To Opening Address
Item 8: Replies To Opening Address

Page 980

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have been told by one Member in this Assembly that when one replies to the Commissioner's address you should simply deal with local issues, issues people tell you about on the street or on the telephone. When you get involved in all the issues this Assembly is concerned with that really should be...

Item 8: Replies To Opening Address
Item 8: Replies To Opening Address

Page 980

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Excuse me, Mr. Lewis. I have been informed that the honourable Member gave a reply on December 7, this is a continuation of the same session. The Member has

already taken advantage of his one opportunity.

---Applause

Good try, Mr. Lewis. Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, petitions. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. Item 11, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Todd.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 981

John Todd Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table Tabled Document 97-12(3), a report to the Legislative Assembly - Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act (1990).

---Applause

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 981

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 981

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table Tabled Document 98-12(3), community transfer initiative workshops requested, held and scheduled. Thank you.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 981

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Koe.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 981

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have two documents I wish to table. I wish to table Tabled Document 99-12(3), a copy of a letter addressed to the Honourable Rebecca Mike, Minister of Health and Social Services from the Status of Women Council of the NWT. Mr. Speaker, this letter addresses the Status of Women Council's concerns regarding Minister Mike's position on not increasing social assistance food allowances.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table Tabled Document 100-12(3), the resolutions made at the Beaufort/Delta leaders conference which was held in Inuvik on February 8 and 9, 1993.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 981

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 12, tabling of documents. Ms. Cournoyea.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 981

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table Tabled Document 101-12(3), proposed bill, Payroll Tax Act, 1993.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table Tabled Document 102-12(3), proposed bill, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, No. 2. Thank you.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 981

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 12, tabling of documents. Item 13, notices of motion. Item 14, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 15, motions. Motion 24-12(3), Tabled Document 91-12(3) and Tabled Document 92-12(3) to Committee of the Whole, Mr. Lewis.

Item 15: Motions
Item 15: Motions

Page 981

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

My seconder to the motion is not in the House, Mr. Speaker.

Item 15: Motions
Item 15: Motions

Page 981

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Lewis, you can name another seconder or stand it down for the day. Mr. Lewis.

Motion 24-12(3): Tabled Document 91-12(3) And Tabled Document 92-12(3) To Committee Of The Whole
Item 15: Motions

Page 981

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Inuvik that Tabled Document 91-12(3), Northwest Territories AIDS Project Review 1992 and Tabled Document 92-12(3), HIV and AIDS in the NWT in 1993, be moved into committee of the whole for discussion.

Motion 24-12(3): Tabled Document 91-12(3) And Tabled Document 92-12(3) To Committee Of The Whole
Item 15: Motions

Page 981

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The motion is in order. To the motion.

Motion 24-12(3): Tabled Document 91-12(3) And Tabled Document 92-12(3) To Committee Of The Whole
Item 15: Motions

Page 981

An Hon. Member

Question.

Motion 24-12(3): Tabled Document 91-12(3) And Tabled Document 92-12(3) To Committee Of The Whole
Item 15: Motions

Page 981

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Tabled Document 91-12(3) and Tabled Document 92-12(3) will be moved into committee of the whole at the appropriate time. Item 16, first reading of bills. Ms. Cournoyea.

Item 16: First Reading Of Bills
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 981

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Bill 23: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1992-93

Item 16: First Reading Of Bills
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 981

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Sahtu that Bill 23, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1992-93, be read for the first time.

Item 16: First Reading Of Bills
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 981

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The motion is in order. To the motion.

Item 16: First Reading Of Bills
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 981

An Hon. Member

Question.

Item 16: First Reading Of Bills
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 981

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Motion passed two votes to zero.

---Applause

Bill 23 has had first reading. Item 17, second reading of bills. Item 18, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters, Tabled Document 2-12(3), the Justice House. Ms. Cournoyea.

Item 16: First Reading Of Bills
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 981

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I ask for consent to go back to item 14, notices of motion for first reading of bills.

Item 16: First Reading Of Bills
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 981

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Ms. Cournoyea.

Revert Back To Item 14: Notices Of Motions
Revert Back To Item 14: Notices Of Motions

Page 981

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

FOR FIRST READING OF BILLS

Revert Back To Item 14: Notices Of Motions
Revert Back To Item 14: Notices Of Motions

Page 981

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

My apologies, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that, on Friday, March 19, 1993, I shall move that Bill 24, Write-Off of Debts Act, 1993, be read for the first time.

Revert Back To Item 14: Notices Of Motions
Revert Back To Item 14: Notices Of Motions

Page 982

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 14, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 18, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 2-12(3), The Justice House - Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality; Tabled Document 19-12(3), 1992 Master Plan for Corrections Service Division; Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Social Assistance Act; Bill 17, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94; Committee Report 10-12(3), Report on Tabled Document 21-12(3): Payroll Tax Act; Committee Report 11-12(3), Report on the Review of the 1993-94 Main Estimates; Committee Report 12-12(3), Interim Report #4 - Talking and Working Together; Committee Report 15-12(3), Tabled Document 33-12(2): Government Accountability: A Legislative Action Paper on Access to Government; Committee Report 16-12(3), Final Report on the Comprehensive Review of the Rules, with Mr. Whitford in the chair.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 982

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

I would like to call the committee to order. What is the wish of the committee? Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 982

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I believe we wanted to address the Department of Personnel today on the order paper. We will determine how far we get as a result of that. If time allows, we will consider Committee Report 16-12(3), Final Report on the Comprehensive Review of the Rules, and the Department of Social Services.

I apologize, Mr. Chairman. I have just been advised by the chairman of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services that Committee Report 12-12(3), Interim Report #4 - Talking and Working Together, is to be addressed, following the Department of Personnel. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 982

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. The committee will then discuss Committee Report 12-12(3), Interim Report #4 - Talking and Working Together. What is the wish of the committee? The committee will have a 15 minute break.

---SHORT RECESS

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 982

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

We are on the Special Committee on Health and Social Services, the fourth interim report. Mr. Dent.

Committee Report 12-12(3): Interim Report #4 - Talking And Working Together
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 982

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It has only been a few days since we read the detail of Interim Report #4 - Talking and Working Together into the record, so my remarks will be brief leading up to presenting motions recommending the adoption of our recommendations by the Legislature. These recommendations arise from the meetings we held in January in Hay River, Nahendeh and the Deh Cho constituencies.

Mr. Chairman, the first of our recommendations calls for the establishment of a regional health board in the Deh Cho region. In our public hearings, we heard many residents in the area tell us they had a general lack of trust in the system of health delivery and felt their input was not being considered in some of the decisions that were being made. They wanted to have much greater control over the delivery of health services. There was a feeling expressed to us by many people, at the public hearings, that they should be the ones making the decisions regarding health services in their own region.

Mr. Chairman, I should point out, when the committee travelled to the Keewatin in November, where the Keewatin regional health board does exist, while we heard some frustrations, we did not notice the same degree of frustration and mistrust of health policies and services. I think the people of the Deh Cho region basically were telling us, they feel they need to have at least the same input and control that is in place in other regions in the Northwest Territories. A regional health board would be able to better reflect the regional health needs and priorities.

Fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal alcohol effects will impact on government services to a great degree. The number of children who are affected by FAS and FAE will drastically increase the needs for special services in the schools to deal with children who are impacted. We feel, in order for the government to address the problem most effectively, it is very important that we have the most accurate estimates possible.

The last of our recommendations was to ask the government to fund a pilot project to offer community leadership development assistance. We heard from people that communities want greater local control, which related to our first recommendation. They recognize that in order to be prepared to take over the delivery of programs and service, they need leadership training to implement these programs and services effectively. With the government's community transfer initiative process under way, it is necessary to develop local leadership skills right now. To be successful with community transfers, local leaders need to be able to feel comfortable in determining their priorities and future directions.

Mr. Chairman, the pilot project we propose would involve three or four communities. Trainers could work on a rotating basis with community workers in each of the communities and trainers could then spend a month in each community, initially, returning once a month for about a year to train and support local people. In return, the local community workers could then train and support others in their community.

Mr. Chairman, that is a general overview of what we found during our travels in the Deh Cho region. I would now like to introduce our recommendations in motion form.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 982

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

I move that this committee recommends that a regional board of health be established in the Deh Cho region.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 983

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 983

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 983

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 983

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, on February 9 to 12, we met in Fort Simpson. One of the decisions that came out of the meeting is that the Deh Cho region is not looking at any kind of direction with regard to land claims. They do not want that if it means extinguishment. They have also looked at other means toward self-government. At that point in time, there was never any discussion leading to a motion of any kind, nor did the chiefs endorse any boards to be created in the Deh Cho region.

Perhaps the committee has been speaking with the people and been hearing that, but the leadership certainly has not endorsed anything of that nature at this point in time. I just want to say that for the record. I also made a presentation in Fort Providence, in which we looked at other methods of control, other than being an agent of this government. I am not going to support the motion.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 983

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. To the motion. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 983

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I come from the Deh Cho region and the Nahendeh constituency. This motion is important to the people in the region because of the health service delivery. What I have been hearing is that there is a lack of trust in the system at the present time and they have a concern that the people in the communities are not involved in a meaningful way in the delivery of health services in the region.

In 1988, during the transfer of health to the Northwest Territories, the Deh Cho regional council at the time took a very strong position saying the Deh Cho regional council should, in fact, be the board or agency that represents the region with regard to health. Up to that point, that is what they had been doing. The regional council was, in fact, quite involved in all aspects of life that affected the people in the smaller communities and this included health, education and social services.

Another reason was the region is very big and it includes the Dogrib region as well as the South Slave. When this transfer was negotiated by the people within the territorial government, they did not take into consideration that there are different regions within the southern half of the Northwest Territories which include the Deh Cho region, the Dogrib region and South Slave. It was very difficult to move ahead with the health board at that time. Up to now there have been many concerns about the delivery of health. There are different positions taken on this motion.

I know the tribal council has talked about this issue in the past and what I have been hearing in communities is that if there could be a health board of some kind in the region, it might help the situation. I just want to make reference to the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions' Final Report on Health and Hospital Boards in the Northwest Territories. They made a recommendation that each health and hospital should be allowed to define its own structural framework, including the maximum number of members and system of community and aboriginal representation. This is a recommendation that is made by the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions and if a board is allowed to be structured in the Deh Cho region, it should be allowed to be structured in the way the people in the region want it to be structured. That would cover my concern in that region. If that were to be allowed, I think the concerns of the people in the region, such as to the lack of trust in the system and the concern the people have in the communities of not being involved in the delivery of health services, would be alleviated and then I would be inclined to support this motion at the present time. Mahsi.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 983

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Zoe.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 983

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, the Special Committee on Health and Social Services is planning to visit my riding some time in May. I am sure the committee will hear similar concerns being expressed in the Deh Cho region. I know the concerns raised by the Deh Cho region, would be almost identical because since 1988, my region has also requested that a regional health board be established for the Dogrib region. At the same time, the Deh Cho region has also be requesting the same board and my understanding is that when the government was negotiating the transfer agreement, the Minister of the day could not negotiate additional money to create these two boards which were requested. It is unfortunate, Mr. Chairman, because since 1988, funding was approved for one board to service the Mackenzie region. Mr. Chairman, the South Slave, Deh Cho and Dogrib regions are served by the Mackenzie regional board and, to date, we do not have a board in place. That concern was raised on a number of occasions in this House. This is not the first time we have heard of this request. I agree with my colleague for Nahendeh and the Member for Deh Cho that this type of motion should be supported because the communities in the Deh Cho region have been requesting this board. I totally agree with them. The people of my region are basically saying the same thing. I would encourage all Members to support what the Special Committee on Health and Social Services have heard from the Deh Cho region. If the special committee travels into my area they would definitely hear the same type of concerns which were raised during their hearings in the Deh Cho region. I would encourage all Members, particularly on this side of the House, to support this motion.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 983

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. To the motion. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 983

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This motion or recommendation was developed with a great deal of consideration placed into it. There was concern expressed when we travelled in the Deh Cho region, particularly in the Fort Simpson area of the fact that they were absent of a board. They felt the Mackenzie director, Tom Menzies was basically

the one doing all of the decision-making with respect to health delivery in the Deh Cho region. When we look at the whole area of health, prior to the transfer, Mr. Chairman, it was always deemed that the transfer was to be addressed as much as we could by the community people through the formation of a board. However, if we look at the regions, I believe every region has a board except for the Deh Cho. The Inuvik region has a regional board for their health centre, the Baffin region, the Keewatin region, the Yellowknife region, the Hay River region, and Fort Smith did. However, if you look at Deh Cho, it is in isolation without a board. It is run by a public administrator.

I think since we have taken the liberty of devolving health to the territories, we really should consider a regional board of health be established in the Deh Cho. I do not believe that we have to do it right away, but I think the department should start developing that and making some plan to let this Legislative Assembly know when they are going to consider this. With respect to this recommendation, this is the intent, we are recommending that a regional board of health be established in the Deh Cho region as opposed to a public administrator delivering the health services for the Department of Health. Thank you.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. To the motion. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to the Deh Cho health board, I am not going to say what is best for the region. It is not my place to do that. I certainly would appreciate it, if the motions put forward in this House are based on the desire of the region. We do not have that, we are basing it on some comments which were made.

Mr. Chairman, I have been dealing with Tom Menzies for many years now. Anytime that I had a problem, he has acted on it very professionally. I do not know what effect the creation of a board will do, it might mean we are to go through another hurdle to get at the problem. The only concern I have is that I have not received any kind of motion, nor have I received any kind of desire from the bands, the tribal or regional councils which suggests that this is the direction the Deh Cho should go in. On that basis, I cannot say what is best for the region and pretend that I am the almighty and that I should be the one who decides the fate of that region. For those reasons, I will not be supporting the motion.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. To the motion. Mr. Ningark.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The people of that region or area will be informed, notified or approached regarding the plans of this government for the establishment of a regional health board established in their region. If the people do not want such a board established in their region, the government will comply. The government will do the right thing. It will be what the people want and not what the government wants. So, at this time, we are establishing a motion to see what the people want from that area. Thank you. I will be supporting the motion. The final authority will rest with the region.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. To the motion.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 101-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 1
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I mentioned earlier, the second recommendation deals with determining, by clinical method the numbers of children affected in the region by fetal alcohol syndrome or fetal alcohol effects.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I would like to move that this committee recommend that the Department of Health undertake a clinical study to determine the number of children affected by fetal alcohol effects and fetal alcohol syndrome in the Deh Cho region.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. We do not have a quorum. Mr. Clerk, can you please ring the bell?

We now have a quorum. Question has been called. To the motion.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Mr. Gargan and Mr. Zoe.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I did support this motion, but how many motions are we looking at with regard to this? We do have many regions, and as we go along and the special committee goes to the Dogrib region and the South Slave region, they come up with these all these motions. I want to know if we are going to have studies done also? For example, fetal alcohol syndrome in the Deh Cho region, that is not the only place that has that problem, I am sure it is all over the place. The committee is going to move forward and as soon as they identify the problem in Fort Rae, they will make another motion, then another study will be done on fetal alcohol syndrome in that area, et cetera. Is that the intent of this board? Little by little we go along, instead of having a final report saying that we do have a problem in this area and there should be a territorial study done.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. To the motion. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 984

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I might address Mr. Gargan's concerns, he will be pleased to know that this is probably the last report we will have before the final report. It is intended that the majority of our recommendations will come out in the final report. As we have travelled around, we have

come across situations that have come to our attention as being necessary to look at right now. The reason that this one came up was that the committee had access to a draft report that has been prepared for the Department of Health which is called "A Community Health Profile of the Fort Simpson Region." In this draft report, there was an estimate made that 25 per cent of the children in the region are fetal alcohol affected. Mr. Chairman, if that is in fact the case, it is a horrendous situation and one that needs to be looked at very carefully.

The problem with the community health profile is that it is not a clinical study. It does not give figures that can be proven to be accurate. We have often heard people say if a teacher runs into a child who is misbehaving, they label them automatically. Rather than having to worry if the figures are accurate, we are saying because the Department of Health is conducting these community health profiles all across the Northwest Territories, we should clinically assess the numbers in this one region. It will give us an idea as to whether or not the studies that come out in the future are accurate for other regions and maybe we will negate the necessity to do this kind of study in every other region. If it turns out that the clinical study backs up the numbers that are reported in this health profile, we can assume that the other health profiles will be relatively accurate as well.

It is a situation where we do not think we should wait until the final report of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services to say that we should do a clinical study all across the territories. Many of us feel that the problem is developing into a very serious one and one that has to be addressed as soon as possible, and therefore this is one way to get it started. I think it is an important process to get under way as soon as possible.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 985

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Gargan and then Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 985

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, rule me out of order if I am out of order, Mr. Chairman, but what is the department actually doing in this area?

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 985

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Mr. Gargan, I think you are allowed to speak to the motion, but that question cannot be answered.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 985

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, can I direct the question to the Minister with regard to what is being done in that area?

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 985

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Mr. Gargan, you cannot direct a question to the Minister while speaking to the motion, however, if the Minister wishes to speak to the motion, she is entitled to do that. To the motion. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 985

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am in support of this motion. A couple of years ago we had a fetal alcohol syndrome conference in Fort Simpson and it was very enlightening for me because I sat through four days with different experts who came in from the south who have worked in this field. It is a situation that everyone here should understand and try to deal with. There is a definite need to get a good grip on this situation. This problem exists because of alcohol abuse in the first place. That is where the problem originates. The children that are statistics, it is not their fault that they are in the situation they are in. I take it that the clinical study is an assessment of each child. If that could be done in that whole region, it would determine, not only FAE and FAS, but it might determine other types of problems children may have. It might be a good thing to do. Once this clinical study is done, then where do we take this study? It is fine to find out and determine the number of individuals with this syndrome, but what do you do with the findings once you have them? That is what I wonder about.

This builds into the Department of Education and the school system. One of things I have been made aware of in this particular case is that not all the people who deal with children really understand the full effect of this condition that certain people have.

I agree with my colleague from Deh Cho, Sam Gargan, that this is not the only region where this problem exists. This problem exists in all areas where there is abuse of alcohol in the Northwest Territories, not only in the Fort Simpson and Deh Cho region. If this clinical study is done, it will help to determine the number of children affected in that region, but it should also be reflective of conditions of children in other regions as well eventually.

I think it is a good motion and that is the reason why I am supporting it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 985

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Ningark.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 985

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The motion seems a little unfair to the Deh Cho region. It seems to imply that the Deh Cho region is a region of high fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal alcohol effects children, and is made as a study area. Mr. Chairman, if we could change the Deh Cho region and replace it by saying "designated region" then I would support the motion. However, using the name "Deh Cho region" in a public document, seems unfair. We are, in fact, implying that the region has a high concentration of fetal alcohol syndrome. It does not seem fair. I agree with Mr. Gargan. If we can amend "Deh Cho region" and replace it with "designated region," then I would support the motion. It is a good motion except for this wording. Thank you.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 985

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Zoe and then Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 985

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, was there a motion put ...

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 985

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

We are speaking to the motion. Mr. Zoe, there have been no amendments. We are speaking to the motion. Mr. Zoe.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 985

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, to the motion, I do not have a particular problem with the region being specifically identified. I think the intent of this motion is to, at least, have a study undertaken by the department so that once they complete the study of this particular region and if the numbers are high, and if it is alarmingly high, then perhaps it would warrant the department to study other regions to look at the problem on a larger scale. I think this was the intent of the motion, to have a starting point. However, if Members feel that by naming a specific region implies that this region has a large alcohol

problem, I do not think this was the case when the special committee put forward this particular motion. I think they wanted to tell the department, because of the concerns which were raised through their hearings, that this type of clinical study should be undertaken. I do not have a big problem with the current motion that we have in front of us, but if Members wish to make it more general instead of being specific to a region, then I do not have a problem with that either. If we make it just a general statement, then the onus would be on the department to select which region they would like to undertake this study on. I think after hearing from the Deh Cho region, the committee felt that perhaps that region should be looked at. I have no problems either way. If someone wants to make an amendment or if we leave it as is, I would support this motion.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 986

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 986

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For clarification, we travelled to the Deh Cho region, a number of people in that region told us of their great concern of the number of kids who might be impacted by fetal alcohol syndrome or fetal alcohol effects. Members of the committee also had access to a draft community health profile for Fort Simpson. We found in that profile that it says up to 25 per cent of the children in that region may be affected by fetal alcohol syndrome or fetal alcohol effects. I do not think anyone in the committee was saying that this region is higher, lower or any different percentage than another area, but the bottom line is that we have a report for that area which says that these are the numbers.

The Department of Health is doing community health profiles in other regions. They may come up with different numbers or the numbers may be the same, they may be higher, they may be lower. We are saying we need some way to assess whether those reports are accurate. The problem is that the reports which are being prepared, the community health profiles, are not clinical studies, so they do not give us clinically accurate numbers. What we need is some way to assess the accuracy of these reports. They are going to be prepared for all regions across the north, the figures were available to us for this one. If the figures had been available for other areas, we may have selected others.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 986

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Ningark.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 986

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have made my point. I did not travel specifically to that region, because I was in the Kitikmeot region. I went to Hay River and Inuvik with the special committee. If in fact there was a request made by the people of the Deh Cho region that the problem has to be dealt with, I will be supporting the motion. I made my point that it seemed like it was a bit unfair to point out a specific region, but I will be supporting the motion. Thank you.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 986

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. To the motion. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 986

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, the community profiles which Mr. Dent keeps referring to, if Mr. Dent is confident that 25 per cent is not the correct number...

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 986

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

I hope that it is not.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 986

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I would hope the same thing too, that it is not. It seems as though we have many mothers in the Deh Cho region who drink while they are pregnant. However, using the Deh Cho region to determine the rest of the territories is not accurate either. You cannot do a study in the Deh Cho region and determine that it is comparable in all the other regions. It is totally unfair to think that is going to be the way you are going to get a true picture. Naturally, if you make it broad enough, you give the department an opportunity to make studies in all areas. This does not do that. It restricts them to one area. I would be glad to find out what the accurate numbers are in my region, but that is very high considering the Deh Cho does not have a big population. Twenty five per cent of one dollar is very high. Is it different in other regions? I do not know. I would prefer not picking on my constituency as the only region that seems to be having that problem.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 986

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. To the motion.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 986

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 102-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 986

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? Thank you. Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 103-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 3
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 986

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Our final recommendation has to do with helping people prepare for greater community control over programs and services. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommend that the government fund a pilot project to offer community leadership development assistance.

Committee Motion 103-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 3
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 986

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

We have a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 103-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 3
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 987

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a very good motion. Therefore, I will support it. I have been saying for a long time, that there is a definite need for community development assistance in the communities, especially the smaller ones. There is a need to develop leadership and help them to become more aware of what is going on. There is a need to develop the community infrastructure as well. With the help of the government, I think it will go a long way in developing the communities in the Northwest Territories. For that, I am supporting this motion. Mahsi.

Committee Motion 103-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 3
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 987

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Member for Nahendeh. Member for North Slave, Mr. Zoe.

Committee Motion 103-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 3
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 987

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, I would be supporting this particular project, where it is related to the training for community workers. I encourage training, especially for the community workers who are the front line workers. I think this is a good motion. Not only that, but I am not sure if this pilot project would also include the training funds for drug and alcohol workers. I have noticed the training component, where the drug and alcohol program is not too good. I hope this pilot project would also fund those types of front line workers as well. Thank you.

Committee Motion 103-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 3
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 987

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. To the motion.

Committee Motion 103-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 3
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 987

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 103-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 3
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 987

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 103-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 3
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 987

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that completes our report. I would like to express thanks to all the committee Members who helped in the preparation of the report, and especially to the people in the ridings of Nahendeh, Deh Cho and Hay River who took time to either write to us, come and talk to us, or meet with us and tell us about their concerns. We are looking forward to our visits to the other communities. We will see more of the Members in their constituencies. I hope all of the Members, who are invited to join us when we are in their constituencies, will make an effort to come out and be part of the process. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 103-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 3
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 987

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Does the committee agree that Committee Report 12-12(3), Interim Report #4 - Talking and Working Together, is concluded?

Committee Motion 103-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 3
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 987

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 987

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Does the committee agree that we now move on to the Department of Personnel?

Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 987

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Personnel, Introductory Remarks

Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 987

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Would the Minister care to present his opening remarks?

Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 987

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to present the 1993-94 main estimates for the Department of Personnel.

The main thrust of the department over the next year will be the implementation of the long-term staff housing strategy. I announced a number of changes on March 11 in response to the input from the public and Members of this Legislature. I am confident that these amendments, which will see the strategy phased in over a longer period of time, will satisfy the needs of tenants without compromising the overall objectives of the strategy.

Mr. Chairman, the department will be actively working to resolve the pay equity issue. Pay equity means providing equal pay to all staff who are doing work of equal value. As mentioned earlier in this session, we are anxious to come to an agreement with the union. However, talks have recently broken off with no conclusion.

The government's affirmative action program remains a priority with aboriginal people occupying 2,065 of the 6,048 government positions as of December 1992. This represents 34.1 per cent of the total number of positions. This is a slight growth over 1991-92 in spite of downsizing and consolidation efforts which have reduced the total number of available government jobs. The Department of Personnel has a total of 114 employees of which 41 are aboriginal representing 36 per cent of the total department.

In other affirmative action categories, the numbers of women in management jobs have increased from 82 to 90 over the course of the year. Women now represent 22.6 per cent of all managers in the organization. Women also hold 232 jobs in non-traditional occupations representing 14.6 per cent of the total numbers in that category. The number of disabled employees has remained steady at 25. Long-term northerners who have lived over half of their lives in the NWT occupy 314 jobs representing 5.2 per cent of the government work force.

The 1993-94 budget for Personnel has been reduced from $26.4 million to $26.313 million for an overall reduction of $87,000. The main changes to the budget include: the department's travel budget was decreased by $418,000 as part of the government's overall restraint measures; the medical travel budget was reduced by $500,000 as a result of the consolidation of all medical travel in the Department of Health; airfare increases, which resulted in the addition of $332,000 for the vacation travel assistance, medical travel assistance and ultimate removal budgets; growth in divisional boards of education increase the department's budget by $139,000 to provide benefits and services for new teachers; the decentralization initiative required the department to provide specialized planning and support services in preparation for the transfer of positions to communities. One person year and funding for salary and O and M in the amount of $72,000 was added to the budget to do this important work; the government was required to pay GST on vacation travel benefits for all employees and this increased the budget by $193,000.

Finally, Mr. Chairman, we will be expanding our 1992 annual report to the Legislative Assembly to include more detail as requested by the Standing Committee on Finance and this Legislature during the 1992-93 budget review. Thank you.

Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 988

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The chairman of the Standing Committee on Finance would like to present his report. The Member from Nahendeh.

Comments By Standing Committee On Finance

Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 988

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A human resources management system is more than just planning and performance evaluation. A management system also includes day-to-day coaching and feedback on the job, empowering front line staff, promoting excellent services to the public, reinforcing good behaviour appropriately and redirecting poor performers.

The committee should not have to wait until the Minister's annual report is tabled to find out the current status. It appears from the Minister's response that the department is not thoroughly familiar with contemporary organizational management systems. We cannot wait for departments to enter the modern era on their own. The Department of Personnel must provide support and leadership to drive management development throughout the civil service.

It is also clear from the department's responses that they do not understand 1992-93 recommendation two of this committee. Recommendation two has nothing to do with the pay equity study as the Minister suggested in his appearance before the committee. Further, you do not have to wait to determine the financial situation of the government before you determine the guidelines for pay negotiation -- if it is not yet clear in anybody's mind, we do not have enough money to house the homeless, educate the uneducated or save the suicidal. We must pay a fair day's wage for a fair day's work -- no more, no less. However, the overall salary burden must be reduced significantly and funds redirected. We must ask our employees to also do their share in these tough times.

The committee suggests that the department undertake a comprehensive review of all job descriptions with a view to ensuring that the required qualifications are realistic and that there is enough flexibility to accommodate the affirmative action policy.

Senior bureaucrats must be held accountable in upholding government policy. This requirement is particularly evident in the area of monitoring and enforcing compliance with the affirmative action policy.

The job of the Department of Personnel is to ensure the government gets the most from its human resources -- efficiently, effectively and economically. The department can no longer be only reactive -- it must be pro-active. Productivity in government can and must be measured.

Mr. Chairman, I have some recommendations.

Committee Motion 104-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 16
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 988

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Personnel establish a means to effectively manage and enhance productivity and accountability throughout the government. The department should be given a mandate to provide support and direction to departments in establishing and achieving productivity and accountability targets. Thank you.

Committee Motion 104-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 16
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 988

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 104-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 16
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 988

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 104-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 16
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 988

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. We do not have a quorum. Mr. Clerk, will sound the bell. Thank you. We now have a quorum. Question has been called. All those in favour? Mr. Lewis.

Committee Motion 104-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 16
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 988

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

I just have one comment on this motion. This motion has appeared in almost identical form for as long as I can remember. Either it is impossible to achieve because it is very difficult to find out who is productive and who is not productive, or it is beyond the capacity of our system to develop such a system. It is needed, and the concern I have is all of these recommendations are made and they appear year after year, but there never seems to be any response to determine whether these recommendations have been accepted, rejected, put on the back burner or the front burner. I do support the motion.

Committee Motion 104-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 16
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 988

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Member from Yellowknife Centre. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 104-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 16
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 988

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 104-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 16
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 988

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 105-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 17
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 988

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Personnel and Education develop a comprehensive management training program for the civil service.

Committee Motion 105-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 17
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 988

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 105-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 17
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 988

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 105-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 17
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 988

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 106-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 18
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you. I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Personnel finalize improved, more detailed conflict of interest guidelines for its civil servants.

Committee Motion 106-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 18
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 106-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 18
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 106-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 18
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 107-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 19
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that this committee recommends that the government ensure that there is adequate aboriginal representation, particularly Inuit representation, in senior management. This recommendation is most critical in the Departments of Health, Social Services, Education, Personnel and Housing.

Committee Motion 107-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 19
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. To the motion. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 107-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 19
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, it should be noted that there is an absence of Inuit representation in senior management. I think that was the intention of the motion. However, this does not preclude the government to ensure that there is adequate aboriginal representation also from the Dene and the Metis. I wanted to make this point. Thank you.

Committee Motion 107-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 19
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 107-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 19
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 107-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 19
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I have a final recommendation. I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Personnel monitor the impact of the new staff housing policy, especially on the affirmative action program; make staff houses available for sale in level II and level III communities at a fair price, taking into account the age and condition of the house; treat the requests for repair or rental adjustments based on substandard or unsuitable units as a top priority, especially in communities with no public housing; assist employees to purchase houses where conventional mortgages are not available; and, review hardship cases also as a top priority. Mahsi.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Does that conclude your remarks, Mr. Antoine?

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, I apologize, I forgot to read the preamble on page 31 on the staff housing policy. Mr. Chairman, I went straight into the motion. Can I read it?

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Yes, Mr. Antoine, please proceed.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, the committee reviewed the proposed changes to the staff housing policy with the Minister in some depth and made some recommendations at the time to improve implementation. We would like to re-affirm the committee's support for the government getting out of staff housing. As a result of expressing our comments and concerns to the Minister, he has made the program more flexible and acceptable to the affected staff.

The program revision was not well received because of a lack of consultation and information. The Department of Personnel has to recognize that they have a responsibility to treat government employees with consideration. It would be a shame to lose good people due to the mishandling of an otherwise good policy. We have already dealt with the motion, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, I will conclude. In light of continuing concerns and questions from the employees about the methods by which the new policy will be implemented, the committee further recommends that the implementation plan for the new staff housing policy be amongst the first orders of business for thorough discussion in committee of the whole. That concludes the presentation from the Standing Committee on Finance. Mahsi.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Are there any general comments? Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I would like to invite witnesses in.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 989

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. The Sergeant-at-Arms will assist the witnesses in.

Are there any general comments? Mr. Kakfwi, for the record can you please introduce your witnesses.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, the deputy minister of Personnel, Mr. Ken Lovely and Mr. Stewart McNabb, the director of finance and administration.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Welcome gentlemen. Are there any general comments? If there are no general comments are we ready for detail? Mr. Gargan, general comments.

General Comments

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have one question. I made a Member's statement regarding the situation in Cambridge Bay. Our former colleague, Ernie Bernhardt, was not there, however, I questioned the whole hiring practices of the region. Many aboriginal people who work in Cambridge Bay felt they were not being treated fairly with regard to certain practices. The head office was hiring relatives and this sort of thing. It seemed that the people were not being treated fairly. This is the only question I have. Has the situation been resolved? I also realize that Tony Villebrun the person who headed up this whole thing has now been transferred here. Has the issue been resolved?

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Kakfwi.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

There was some correspondence circulated to Members of the Legislature charging racial discrimination in the Kitikmeot region a few months ago. We responded by setting up an investigation committee. During the week of December 7, we sent in a team of people to Cambridge Bay to conduct an investigation. The report on this finding was issued to Personnel and the Department of Government Services and Public Works on January 12. The investigation committee concluded that there was no evidence presented by the witnesses to indicate any overt racial discrimination on the part of the current management of the Department of Government Services and Public Works in the Kitikmeot region. However, the committee felt that there were certain management processes and practices that were perceived by native employees to be detrimental to their employment training and promotional opportunities. The committee made some recommendations to the departments.

In response to one employee in Cambridge Bay, we have made an offer to have a transfer. If the employee was interested and willing to take a transfer to Yellowknife, we would make proper arrangements to ensure the individual took such an opening at the first opportunity made available. We have set up an affirmative action seminar for the Kitikmeot region in early March. We have continued to monitor the conduct of management in the departments following the recommendations made by the committee. We will, for instance, conduct an operational review of the current management practices in the Kitikmeot as that was recommended. We have tried to do some positive follow-up to the allegations that were made, to ensure, while there was no evidence of over racial discrimination, in response to aboriginal employees' perception, that everything possible is done to ensure that those possible bases for aboriginal employees would be alleviated.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Are there general comments? Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe there is also an appeal process. Are the aboriginal employees aware of the process with regard to promotions and applying for certain managerial positions or positions of responsibility within this government? My concern would be whether or not we are allowing regional or district managers to get away with the way they do their hiring or hiring practices. I do not want the communities to perceive that we are still hiring people from out of town or who are good friends with the district manager perhaps. I would encourage the Minister to keep a sharp eye with regard to what is happening in the field. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. Are there general comments? Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I made most of my general comments within the Standing Committee on Finance. In respect to the UNW coming up for negotiations, I believe it is next year, has the Minister considered taking the portion of his department that does the negotiations and somehow amalgamating it with the Department of Finance to ensure that, whatever negotiated items they are looking at, they will look at the overall financial implications this government has to absorb? Has there been any consideration for that consolidation? Thank you.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, the government has been looking at this idea for some time. We are still looking at this suggestion, that the negotiations for the collective agreement be handled through a group that would work out of Finance. It would combine the section of the Department of Personnel that deals with collective agreements.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, there is some discussion going on, on this side with my other colleagues. I could not quite hear. Has he indicated that there would be consideration for this to go in conjunction with the Finance department?

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, when the government is prepared to speak to the reorganization of the Department of Finance, Members would get a more definitive answer to the question, but the Member is correct in wondering whether we are entertaining the suggestion she made. We are prepared, but we have not made the firm commitment to it yet.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 990

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you. The other point I wanted to bring forth was in regard to labour relations. I do not know whether the labour relations division has any legal counsel

within the division, particularly when you are doing departure agreements with employees. I know the Department of Personnel used the services of the Department of Justice to work out legal implications if there were any. Can the Minister advise us whether there is any particular legal counsel in that particular division? Thank you.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

No, Mr. Chairman, the Department of Justice provides legal counsel to Personnel.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is the point I want to make. There never seems to be legal counsel within the labour relations area. Sometimes it is very difficult. I have been told, once you are in the government, you never get fired because they do not know how to fire civil servants or how to discipline them. Will the Minister take into consideration trying to complement his labour relations division with the necessary legal counsel? Thank you.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, the way the government operates presently is all legal counsel, advice and questions are handled by the Department of Justice for all the departments, including Personnel. If the Member is suggesting there might be some merit to looking at the suggestion that we should have one lawyer permanently assigned as an employee within the Department of Personnel, who would act as legal counsel for the purpose of negotiations, I would be prepared to look at it to see what the merits of it would be and I am willing to share that with the Members as soon as I have done so. Thank you.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe there is some merit to that because sometimes when you are trying to address any type of labour relations, by the time it gets to the Department of Justice there are so many events that have come up and it is difficult to keep on top of them. I think in taking a more pro-active approach, consideration should be given to legal counsel within that particular area.

Mr. Chairman, I did want to mention to the Minister, with respect to his definitive objectives particularly pertaining to job evaluations, sometimes I receive comments that the job descriptions which reflect the position requirement are somewhat too sophisticated and artificially inflated. Through classification, depending upon the requirements necessary for a job, reflects the salary base. Has there been continual evaluation with respect to job descriptions to ensure you are not placing in artificial barriers to a possible individual who may want to take on a position? Is there a possibility that job description requirements are artificially inflated with requirements which are unnecessary? Is this type of review being done? Thank you.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, that has been an ongoing issue with this department for some time. For the purpose of taking an organized approach to it, we have tried to take a systematic approach to addressing it by reviewing the different jobs which are currently in government and doing it in concert with the implementation of the new job evaluation system. The new job evaluation system should be implemented within the next six months.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

That is good news to hear, Mr. Chairman. I have stated in committee, I have never stated it publicly, that I certainly have supported the department's initiative with respect to the housing strategy. I know last week when I was out of town there were some significant changes, however, they were accepted by both the Members and the government in addressing the housing strategy.

I wanted to comment on the housing allowance which is granted to civil servants. This side of the House and these Members have been pressing the government to increase social assistance allowance, particularly the food allowance. There is a $450 housing allowance given to every civil servant who owns their own home. An individual client of Social Services does not even get $450 per month for food, they do not even get $450 per month to live on, let alone for food.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

An Hon. Member

Hear, hear.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

I would suggest that maybe the Minister of Personnel may want to consider giving up a portion of his housing allowance, not saying the whole $450, but a portion of it to his colleague the Minister of Social Services so they could look at raising the food rates for Social Services. I think that would be benefiting all the people of the north, particularly the ones in need, as opposed to just a selected few. Thank you.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 991

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Although the Legislature dealt with the staff housing strategy last week and there was a motion passed and as a government we responded, I know some Members took interest in the fact that CBC Radio did play a couple of morning pieces, outdated pieces by David Miller that continued to take some shots at our housing strategy suggesting we are almost totally deaf to concerns, long after we have made substantive changes to our strategy. I wanted to take the occasion to address that because I think that although Mr. Miller spent quite some time letting certain employees in Fort Liard lament their sad case of not being able to continue making payments on their loans and car, neither the employee or CBC pointed out that these employees receive the standard accommodation allowance of $450 per month. I found that very misleading. I am not upset about it, but felt that if I found some occasion I would bring that to the attention of Members to balance out the picture.

Having said that, there is no interest on the part of government to do anything with the accommodation allowance. We will continue to provide it to employees and we have extended it to all employees in level III communities. We see it as a great incentive to get people into private home ownership. That is the way we will continue to envisage it. Thank you.

Directorate

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Line by line? Directorate, page 5-10, total O and M, $4.476 million. Agreed?

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Job Evaluation

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Job evaluation, total O and M, $586,000. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Has any progress been made with the gender equality issue? I know this government was working on paying women for equal work of equal value. Have you addressed that issue?

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I think what the Member is referring to is the pay equity issue. As I said in my opening remarks, we have been anxious to try and resolve it with the unions, although talks have broken off. I indicated a few weeks ago that when the talks broke off, we were well over $50 million apart in what it is we were prepared to come to the table with. It is a huge gap in what we think is a realistic area of settlement. So, the union has broken off talks with us and I am sure they are looking at their options, as we are. We have not come to any decision on what course of action we will take. One way or the other the issue has to be resolved. It looks unfortunate, but there could be a more productive way to resolve it. If there is not, we will advise Members once we come to some sort of decision on it.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Have the male public service ever looked at reducing their salaries so it is more equal with the women's salary?

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I have never understood that to be remotely possible. Not that they would all turn it down but the direction and the parameters for settling, at least at this stage, have been understood to be set by the Human Rights Commission. The point is not to beat the men down to a pay level where the women are; the point is to bring the women, and those jobs that are underpaid for the work they do, up to the level of the other jobs. That is the understanding.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, have we even looked at a slight reduction in salaries on the part of the men so there is a balance somewhere? It does not mean a reduction all the way down to a woman's level but they should be able to increase a woman's salary and take a little bit from the men to balance things out a bit. I must be dreaming, I am not sure whether that is possible.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Minister. Mr. Minister, did you want to make a comment?

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Yes, Mr. Chairman, just to make the comment that, in my view, when the unions agreed to zero per cent, that did not keep up with the rate of inflation. I think we have to keep in mind that all around us across this country the other governments, provincial governments, are in very serious financial situations and there are lay offs and cutbacks happening and suggestions of revisiting agreements that were just recently made. I do not know that our employees are totally aware of how tough the financial situations are that the governments across this country find themselves in. So far, we have managed to do many things to try to be economic in our use. It has been tough on certain groups but I think the union has to realize there is limited money. Until that message sinks in, the ability to negotiate realistically is going to be very limited. Hopefully, time will get the message to everyone that we have very limited means in which to continue to live as we live. We have to be creative, some of us have to make sacrifices and the things we want for Christmas this year might have to wait for one or two years. That is the message. Perhaps we live in an insulated world up here and we do not have that much time. I really hope the message gets across. Thank you.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Line by line. Job evaluation, total O and M, $586,000.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Staffing

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Agreed. Staffing, total O and M, $2.758 million.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Labour Relations

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

We have an agreement. Labour relations, total O and M, $950,000.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 992

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Employee Benefits

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

We have agreement. Employee benefits, total O and M, $17.543 million. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

I want to make the comment that these employees' benefits for $17 million are for approximately 5,000 civil servants. We pay $17 million in social assistance alone to, I do not know how many, individuals in the territories. I want the Members to be cognizant of that. Thank you.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Member from Thebacha. Total O and M, $17.543 million.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Detail of work performed on behalf of third parties, there is no amount in dollars. Comments? It is from 05-15 to 05-18. Total department, detail of work performed on behalf of third parties, total department, $6.907 million.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

We have agreement. Program summary. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, could I ask the Minister with regard to page 05-17 on detail of work performed on behalf of third parties. This $97,000 paid to DIAND for a secondment through a vote 4/5, is that funding given to DIAND or is it not offset where it is an in and out entry? We do not give DIAND $97,000 to take care of the secondment for Claire Barnabe to July 29, 1994, do we?

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, the way the secondment agreement works is we continue paying this particular individual, bill the federal government and the federal government pays us back.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Does that clarify that? All right. To program summary, total O and M, $26.313 million.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

We have an agreement. Does the committee agree that the Department of Personnel, O and M, is concluded?

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

We have agreement. Thank you, Mr. Minister and the witnesses, for your assistance. What is the wish of the committee? Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

If the Department of Personnel is concluded we could proceed with the Department of Social Services.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Is the committee agreed?

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. We will proceed with the Department of Social Services. Is the Minister prepared to present her opening remarks? Ms. Mike.

Department Of Social Services, Introductory Remarks

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the opportunity to provide opening remarks to the Assembly on behalf of the Department of Social Services.

The major thrusts of the budget for this year are as follows: operating costs of $304,000 for opening a new alcohol and drug treatment centre in Iqaluit; $705,000 cost of living increases for alcohol and drug workers; an increase of $1.5 million in social assistance to cover greater demand and $1 million for the improved food allowance; $170,000 for the senior citizens' supplementary benefits; and, the opening of two new personal care homes for elders on the Hay River Reserve, $254,000, and in Fort Franklin, $277,000.

There are 204 indeterminate person years and 15.2 casual person years associated with this funding. Revenue for the period is estimated at $28.5 million.

Mr. Chairman, this completes my budget presentation and I am prepared to answer any questions Members may have.

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Minister. Is the chairman of the Standing Committee on Finance prepared to present its report?

Comments By Standing Committee On Finance

Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chairman. One of the committee Members summarized it well when he said, "Communities have to heal themselves."

The Department of Social Services must provide leadership, support and direction to the communities to help them take responsibility for providing solutions to local social problems. Major improvement is an urgent matter. We must reduce social service dependency, and remove systemic barriers to effective independent living. An integrated social services strategy is an urgent matter. The committee was disturbed by the fact that no effort has been made to develop one, despite previous committee recommendations.

The committee expects the Minister to provide leadership and start to work on a plan. If, at the committee stage, we identify shortcomings in the plan, the plan can be modified. To sit back and say, "We are not going to do anything until recommendations come from a standing or special committee" is totally inappropriate.

Each region and community needs a social services strategy to start seeing results. We see many pressing needs to address and, to date, we lack a rational plan to guide these activities.

With respect to day care, the committee understands that the department is lapsing $1 million in this program. Meanwhile, we recognize that because of the funding formulas there have been some problems with getting adequate funds to day care operators. Knowing this program is being transferred to the Department of Education on April 1, the committee will be watching very carefully to see that the problems with day care in terms of funding, funding formulas and regulations are addressed by the Department of Education before the next main estimates.

The day care program has to be re-examined. There must be consideration given to broadening the scope and allowing more latitude so it is not just people who have jobs or are returning to school who can qualify for day care. We must recognize that providing day care space can help support economic initiatives within the community. People will identify economic opportunities and move towards them if the program is broadened.

Mr. Chairman, that concludes the committee's remarks. I have two motions.

Committee Motion 109-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 23
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 993

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Education re-examine the day care program with a view to broadening its scope and facilitating economic initiatives. Thank you.

Committee Motion 109-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 23
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 994

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

The motion is in order. To the motion. We do not have a quorum. To the motion.

Committee Motion 109-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 23
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 994

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 109-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 23
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 994

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 109-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 23
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 994

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, can I have a copy of the motion? What is the motion?

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

To the motion.

Committee Motion 109-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 23
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An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 109-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 23
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My second recommendation is, I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Social Services identify and redirect any potential lapsed funds to support continuing improvements in alcohol and drug worker salaries and food allowance rates. Thank you.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That concludes the remarks from the Standing Committee on Finance. Thank you.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Does the Minister wish to invite the witnesses in?

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Is this committee agreed?

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Minister, for the record can you please introduce your witnesses.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Blair Dunbar, deputy minister and Mr. Dave Tyler, finance and administration.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Are there any general comments? Mr. Ningark.

General Comments

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I still think that not allowing the social assistance recipients to cash their social assistance cheques is insensitive and unfair to a recipient who has children to look after or has kids going to school in places such as Yellowknife or other larger centres. There are times when the parent has to buy some clothing for the kids who are attending high school in other communities, other than the recipient's home community. There are times when the recipient wants to buy other things from other stores other than the co-op or the Northern Store, we have the hunters' and trappers' association selling, in their establishment, country food and other essentials. If you are not able to cash the cheque, you are not able to buy things which are essential for your day-to-day use.

Mr. Chairman, the system we have now, which only allows the recipient to cash a very small portion of a social assistance cheque and the recipient who is already enduring a restrictive life-style is being made more restricted by this departmental policy. The honourable Minister indicated to me a few weeks ago that it was up to the Kitikmeot regional council to change the policy. If the Minister is not comfortable in making the policy stand uniformly throughout the territories, maybe she could get the social appeal committee to have a discretionary decision on who should be getting the cash and who should be getting a voucher.

My question to the Minister is, Mr. Chairman, who is in charge of the department? Is it the Minister herself or is it the regional council? Thank you.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am in charge. The direction I took was from the Kitikmeot regional council, which consists of mayors when they meet. This is the community-based approach which has been adopted by the department. I think in my response to your question, I had asked to meet with you after the session to try and resolve this continuing problem. The last time the Kitikmeot regional council met, the motion was passed again for vouchers. I could easily override that, but my best guess is that there may be two communities in the Kitikmeot region that went against the motion which was dealt with through the Kitikmeot regional council.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Ningark.

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I respect the Minister when she indicated she is in charge of the department. Is it because a few recipients who are using the money for other things other than buying groceries and basics for their family, that the other recipients who are not abusing the system have to suffer? I wonder if the Minister can weigh the balance and try to work things out, especially for the people who have large families to take care of. I wonder if the Minister would reconsider the decision that was made, on her behalf, by the Kitikmeot regional council?

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That was my intention when I suggested that I would like to meet with Mr. Ningark and deal with the particular communities which he may be talking on behalf of. I do agree with Mr. Ningark. In smaller communities they know who gambles and who does not. I am still willing to meet with him after the session is over. Thank you.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

General comments. Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I have some problems with regard to the existing Child Welfare Act, with adoptions. One of the problems is that we are still exercising adoption based on the existing laws with no due consideration for the immediate family, aunts, uncles or even grandparents. Have you touched on this at all? Once a child becomes a ward of Social Services, there is no consideration whatsoever with regard to the background of the child or families. Once they are within the court system, then they are protected under the law and there is nothing you can do about it. Has the Minister herself, being an aboriginal person and perhaps a mother, looked at the present act to see how you might be able to allow the immediate family the first option to care for the child in the event the mother is not suitable?

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I do know where the Member for Deh Cho is coming from. Usually, if we do have a social worker handling the adoption case, and if our workers are familiar and oriented with the aboriginal traditions in adoptions, there are usually less problems. I do agree there has to be some changes made, but I think it would be wise for our department to wait for the family law review report to be dealt with. In that report there may be some recommendations which tie in with this. Thank you.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Even in the family law review report, there is nothing they can do with regard to trying to recognize the aboriginal custom adoption in legislation. The only way that is being done right now is through practice and the recognition of the courts to observe that practice and legalize it. Even before that process is addressed, the situation is that if a parent decides to give her child to the grandparents, uncles or aunts, Social Services gets involved with their laws and the criteria of whether the grandparents are suitable and whether you get consent from the natural mother or father. So, even though the courts recognize that practice, the whole confusion starts when the Department of Social Services starts scrutinizing every member of the family to see whether suitable ability exists. So, what happens is that even though a young girl consents to her mother taking care of the children, as soon as Social Services gets involved the whole custom adoption practice is stopped in its tracks. Then, the department goes through its process as if it was a private adoption. I am wondering if there is a way to change this government's legislation. I would like to see something in the legislation which gives the opportunity, if it is a court decision that under the Child Welfare Act, the grandparents or the uncles or aunts are given the first option as opposed to the child being put in a foster home, or a different home away from the community. In most cases it is not aboriginal families they are being fostered to, it is white families.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I merely suggested in the family law reform report there may be recommendations which pertain to this. I would like to get clarification from the Member for Deh Cho. Is he talking about apprehended children or custom adoption?

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, could the Minister ask the question again?

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Madam Minister.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are three types of adoption: custom adoption, departmental adoption and private adoption. It would help to address Mr. Gargan's concern if I knew which one of these he was talking about. Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I am referring specifically to custom adoption. Mr. Chairman, about six years ago when my eldest daughter had a child I tried custom adoption, we wanted to adopt that child. We expressed our interest and my daughter was interested in doing the same thing. Social Services then got involved, filling out papers, getting consent from the natural mother and the natural father. If we are to go by the rules, naturally if any of the parties say, "no," then the whole thing dies in its tracks.

I do not know if this a conflict, Mr. Chairman. My grandchildren are wards of this government, they are in a white family, and your department is paying for them to be taken care of. When, in fact, Madam Minister, we insisted that we take the children, we wanted them, we wanted to adopt them. The situation is not that easy. I do not know where things went wrong. Now, six years later we are still interested. They are going to court again, and they are going to get an extension, by the courts, to have those children be made wards of this government. There is not much, as an aboriginal person, I can do, because as far as the recognition of that, within the court system and within the Child Welfare Act, it does not allow for intervention by the grandparents.

I am talking about custom adoption. As far as I am concerned we are caught up in bureaucratic red tape with regard to having the department involved.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will let the deputy minister respond.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Please proceed, Mr. Dunbar.

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Dunbar

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not familiar with the details of the case Mr. Gargan refers to but I can provide you with some information as to the process which is followed. The process followed in custom adoption is that our staff are only involved in the sense of completing documents required by the Supreme Court. In a custom adoption case the staff do not pass any judgement on the merits of the placement. The only time at which that might occur would be if there are concerns under the Child Welfare Act as to whether the child might be in need of protection. In terms of the processing of the custom adoption, we only complete the forms for presentation to the Supreme Court.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Are there any general comments? Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I appreciate that information. Perhaps it has not been clear in the past. I do not know how much information is provided for that particular issue. I do not know if social workers are trained with regard to custom adoption. Do they take a special program with regard to this or are they specifically dealing with studies regarding social assistance, the Child Welfare Act or other acts which they are responsible for under their area? Are they informed with regard to this at all?

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, they are trained in the areas Mr. Gargan mentioned.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

As you know, there is a federal Minister for UIC, which would put some restrictions on people who are eligible and ineligible. Has the department reviewed this issue with regard to unemployment insurance benefits? We might see an increase in social assistance if the benefits do not apply because of new requirements.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like the deputy minister to respond to that question.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Dunbar.

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Dunbar

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Our staff are working very closely with staff in the Department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs to examine this whole area. As the Member has pointed out, it is changing and there may well be an impact on social assistance. On the other hand, there is also the possibility that there has not been as much done as should have been done in assisting people to collect unemployment insurance in the Northwest Territories. There were delays in people receiving their monies through that program which has resulted in a significant number of people coming to the department requesting and being granted social assistance because they were in financial need at the time. I believe that working together with staff from Education, Culture and Employment Programs we are going to endeavour to improve that situation for people.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Are there any general comments. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to make a couple of comments to the Minister. Mr. Chairman, in my observation of the Department of Social Services over the past year, there has been one significant activity taken out of Social Services, corrections was given to Justice. This budget session we have been advised that day care will be taken out of Social Services and given to Education. The employment enhancement program that was once in Social Services is now given to Education. I would like to ask the Minister, since this activity has been taken out -- particularly with corrections the PYs went along with it -- is it possible for the Department of Social Services to focus now on a wildlife harvesting assistance program in conjunction with the Department of Renewable Resources? Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will let my deputy minister respond to that.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Dunbar.

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Dunbar

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The transfer of corrections to the Department of Justice has, in fact, been accomplished. The majority of the person years associated with that program have gone to that department. Social Services, under a memorandum of understanding, will be continuing to do the community corrections work for approximately two and a half more years. This was done as

recognition of the fact that in order to plan the community corrections program and the broader community justice initiative, time was required to do the planning properly. So, one of the things the Department of Social Services is doing in contributing to this initiative, is endeavouring to carry on in providing the community corrections services.

With respect to focusing on the wildlife harvesting program, certainly the department is engaged in working together with Renewable Resources, Education and Economic Development and Tourism in looking at ways in which to improve services to people who are on social assistance and, hopefully, moving them off social assistance or certainly assisting them in becoming less dependent on social assistance.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. General comments. Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Can the Minister give us some indication as to when this initiative -- I know it has been started, but when can we see some results in respect to the initiative? Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At this point in time I cannot indicate when. Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wonder if the Minister can look at a time frame of at least giving us a report on it, even if we consider the November session, so we can see whether consideration of this initiative is being given any type of direction. Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, that sounds reasonable to me. Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The other comment I wanted to make is with regard to the alcohol and drug division, which is lacking the direction of the board of management. Has the Minister directed the department to request that the board of management meet, particularly in regard to the submissions made from the alcohol and drug groups across the NWT for funding purposes? Thank you.

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Due to the funding of the meeting I directed the department to make arrangements to conduct a conference call of this board to deal with the applications. Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Is it my understanding that the applications which were submitted have been reviewed by the board of management and the advice granted to the department? Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The conference call has not occurred so the review of the applications have not been dealt with. Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, recognizing that the year end is quickly approaching and I am sure that alcohol and drug programs want to know what their next year's funding status will be, when is this conference call going to be taking place and when are we going to ensure that the department has community input into the submissions which were submitted to the Department of Social Services, respecting alcohol and drug programs? Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

The honourable Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At this point in time I have to go to Cabinet with option papers in dealing with these applications which are outstanding. Until then I cannot decide when the conference call will be held. Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Member for Thebacha.

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not understand why the Minister has to go to Cabinet with option papers for the submission. The intention of the alcohol and drug board of management was to review applications from the communities to be able to give advice to the Minister as to how much each program should be allocated with respect to funding. This funding is then delivered by the department. In my opinion, there is no need to bring forth these submissions to Cabinet. The Minister indicated there are intentions of a conference call to review these applications. Recognizing that the year end is approaching, when is this conference call going to take place in order to review these applications so we could be assured there is community input into the recommendations from the submissions? Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The existing agreements will get their funding. It is the new applications which need to be looked at. I was hoping before the end of the fiscal year that the conference call will take place. Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I certainly hope that before the end of the fiscal year this conference call can take place. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to ask the Minister if she will make a commitment to ensure this conference call to review applications for alcohol and drug programs is reviewed by the board of management within the next week? We are two weeks away from year end and I am sure these groups want to know the funding status for their submission. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It will have to be either next week or before the end of this month.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, will the Minister make a commitment to ensure this conference call takes place by the end of the week or prior to the end of the month?

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That was my plan. Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, it is my understanding that the alcohol and drug board of management has not met over the past year. I believe Mr. Patterson met with them very briefly when he was a Minister. I would like to ask the Minister what process has her department been using over the past year to approve alcohol and drug submissions? Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have not approved any new submissions. Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair John Ningark

Merci. The honourable Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

What process has her department been using with respect to reviewing alcohol and drug submissions which were submitted to her department since the alcohol and drug board of management has not met? Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will let the deputy minister respond.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Dunbar.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Dunbar

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The project proposals for the 1992-93 fiscal year which were provided to the department in February and March, 1992, were, in fact, reviewed by the board of management in existence at the time. The department gave the recommendation to the Minister, which was subsequently approved, to approve those particular projects. If you recall, we went through two interim budgets before the main estimates for the 1992-93 fiscal year were approved. We have had a great deal of difficulty in dealing with some of these things. We have not reviewed new project proposals received since the board of management approved the current ones and the ones that had been submitted at that time.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to be assured that these submissions which are requesting funding, are also getting the input of the board of management. Am I correct to assume -- and I do not like assuming -- Mr. Chairman, that the Minister indicated that all current funding for alcohol and drug programs will remain at the current funding level? Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some have increased and some have decreased. Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister, are you through with the response?

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, I have been informed by my deputy that there have been no decreases. Thank you.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, they have remained the same with respect to funding to all alcohol and drug programs for this coming year. What I am asking is, they are currently approved at the current level which was granted to them for 1992-93. That level will be applied for 1993-94. Is that understanding correct?

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Qujannamiik, Mr. Speaker. I will let my deputy respond to that question.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Dunbar.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Dunbar

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department sent out letters to all the existing alcohol and drug community projects, and suggested three options for them to respond in terms of proposals for the 1993-94 fiscal year. The first option was the status quo, in other words that their goals, objectives and budgets would remain the same. The second option was one in which the board of directors for each of these projects might identify changes in their goals and objectives for the year. The third option was one in which the boards for each of these projects might indicate that, in fact, their goals and objectives were changing and/or their budget amounts were changing. Several projects have come back and indicated to the department that they are prepared to provide services on the basis of their 1992-93 funding level. Some projects have returned to the department indicating they wish to change and that there are increases being requested, and we have not heard from some projects as yet, either.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, since we are going to be trying to conclude the session by the end of next week, I would like to ask the Minister if she would make a commitment to the House with regard to advising us of the status of these programs and funding levels for the 1993-94 fiscal year? Thank you

.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you. I just have one further comment, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Minister -- and I have discussed this issue with her before -- with regard to one of the facilities she is responsible for, comes under the Department of Social Services. The facility is Trailcross. There have been numerous complaints from staff in respect to this facility. I have asked the Minister if she would consider a review of the facility, with regard to policy, management and the entire institution. I would like to ask the Minister if she has considered my request and whether a decision has been made with regard to this particular facility in which I receive numerous concerns on the practising, whether it be management's practices, the way employees are treated or inconsistency of policies applied. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I could have the facility reviewed, yes. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That concludes my general comments. I have made most of my general comments in the Standing Committee on Finance. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. We are doing the 1993-94 Main Estimates of Social Services. Are there any further general comments? Mr. Lewis.

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a very few general comments and with to pose a few questions about Social Services. We spend $80 odd million in this department in O and M. So, it is less than ten per cent of our budget. The concern I have always had is when you look at how money is spent in providing services to this department, I have often wondered if we have ever examined in any detail the number of people or the percentage of the population that makes use of the service provided by that $80 odd million.

The other question related to that is whether we have looked at those regions of the territories, not only the total population, but the regions of the territories where we have the highest use of the services of that department. In many ways, those people are among the unfortunate, or the unlucky people, who need more assistance from government than others.

The third question is once you look at where the people need the service, and there are dozens of reasons, we do not need to go into all the reasons why people need the services of this department, what degree then to those statistics on the use of that service play a part in what the rest of the government does. In other words, if you know there are certain problems with the region, how much support do you get from other departments to try to recognize that there is a specific problem in this part of the population or in this region, so you can say this is where we need to have more economic development, et cetera? Does this play a part in the way government plans? The fact is we have certain portions of the population that are not self-controlled, self-reliant or self-fulfilled. We do not need to go into the reasons why all of this has happened. So, those are the three questions that are of interest to me, both as general comments and questions about this department which is consuming a little bit less than ten per cent of the government's budget.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will let Mr. Dunbar respond to that.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Dunbar.

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Dunbar

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department is improving its ability to gather information about its actual case loads and demands for services, but I would not pretend to say it is perfect. As a rough estimate on the social assistance program alone, I think it can be safely stated that 50 per cent of our territorial population, one or more times during the year, would have contact with the Department of Social Services seeking financial assistance.

For other program areas, of course the statistics vary and there is a hidden statistic that is very difficult to get at and that is the work that our staff do in the field in trying to prevent many social problems from becoming a major crisis with an individual or a family unit. We do not capture that kind of statistic, so it is very difficult to provide you with an accurate answer to the first part of your question.

Moving on to the second part of your question with respect to regional utilization of our services, we have not done a very good analysis of that at the present time, although it is something that concerns us and has contributed to our attempt to provide services in these communities. Certainly, not all of our communities have resident social workers at the present time and you then end up with a fly-in fly-out service, a short-term person staying there or part-time work. I cannot give you a very accurate representation or analysis of that.

To what degree does this then impact upon work in other departments? When you make reference to the fact that the Department of Social Services receives approximately ten per cent of the territorial government budget you are correct, but that does not represent this government's commitment to social programs in their broader sense. For example, with the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation and the programs for housing, in some provinces you might find much of those expenditures identified in a Department of Social Services budget for housing and under social assistance, whereas our government has taken a different approach for some various and good reasons for funding programs through cost-sharing arrangements. There is a great deal of work going on with other departments.

Certainly, when we look at the fact that there is a great thrust to improve the employment situations of our northern residents, we are working together with the Department of Economic Development, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs and the Department of Renewable Resources to try to ensure the programs they are developing will incorporate into them an element of trying to remove people from social assistance.

I am not sure if I can provide you with more about that, or if I have answered your question at least in part.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. According to the time, we have three or four minutes to do this. General comments. Mr. Lewis.

Committee Motion 110-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 24
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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

I would like to move that we report progress, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. There is a motion to report progress and the motion is not debatable. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

I would like to thank the honourable Minister, Mr. Dunbar and Mr. Tyler. Thank you for coming to this committee. I will now rise and report progress.

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 19, report of committee of the whole. Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Committee Report 12-12(3), Bill 17 and Committee Report 11-12(3) and would like to report progress with ten motions being adopted, and the conclusion of Committee Report 12-12(3). Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Seconded by Mr. Dent. Motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 20, third reading of bills. Point of order. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1000

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I have just had the opportunity to review unedited Hansard for today's question period and I had inadvertently asked the Minister of Justice during question period, when he intended to table the family law review report. The Minister responded "very soon." Mr. Speaker, I did not mean to mislead the House through my questioning on the issue. I am sure all of us who care about this issue recall the family law review being tabled in this House. The intent of my questioning was to ask the Minister as to the status of the government's response to the recommendations of the report, particularly when legislation was referred to in the report. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mrs. Marie-Jewell, I listened very carefully, but I heard no point of order. Point of order, Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I wanted to rise on a point of order as well because the Member for Thebacha, during question period today, may have lead the House to believe that the family law review report has never been tabled. I wanted to make the correction that the family law review report was tabled by myself, three months after I was appointed as Minister of Justice, October 2, 1992. In response to the Member, because it is no longer currently seen as a tabled document, I am prepared at the earliest opportunity to retable the document and move it into committee of the whole. Thank you.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1000

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, there is no point of order, but the House is wiser now than it was five minutes ago.

Item 20, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Item 21: Orders Of The Day
Item 21: Orders Of The Day

March 17th, 1993

Page 1000

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, there is a meeting of the Standing Committee on Finance immediately after adjournment. At 8:30 am tomorrow morning, a meeting of the Standing Committee on Legislation, at 10:30 am of the Ordinary Members' Caucus and at 12:00 of the Striking Committee. Orders of the day for Thursday, March 18, 1993.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Oral Questions

6. Written Questions

7. Returns to Written Questions

8. Replies to Opening Address

9. Petitions

10. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

11. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

12. Tabling of Documents

13. Notices of Motion

14. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

15. Motions

16. First Reading of Bills

17. Second Reading of Bills

- Bill 8, Payroll Tax Act

- Bill 23, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1992-93 18. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Tabled Document 2-12(3), The Justice House - Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality

- Tabled Document 19-12(3), 1992 Master Plan for Corrections Service Division

- Tabled Document 91-12(3), Northwest Territories AIDS Project - Review

- Tabled Document 92-12(3), Information on AIDS Virus in the Northwest Territories

- Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Social Assistance Act

- Bill 17, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94

- Committee Report 10-12(3), Report on Tabled Document 21-12(3): Payroll Tax Act

- Committee Report 11-12(3), Report on the Review of the 1993-94 Main Estimates

- Committee Report 15-12(3), Tabled Document 33-12(2): Government Accountability: A Legislative Action Paper on Access to Government

- Committee Report 16-12(3), Final Report on the Comprehensive Review of the Rules

19. Report of Committee of the Whole

20. Third Reading of Bills

21. Orders of the Day

Item 21: Orders Of The Day
Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Page 1001

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until 1:30 pm, Thursday, March 18, 1993.

---ADJOURNMENT