Mr. Chairman, I am referring specifically to custom adoption. Mr. Chairman, about six years ago when my eldest daughter had a child I tried custom adoption, we wanted to adopt that child. We expressed our interest and my daughter was interested in doing the same thing. Social Services then got involved, filling out papers, getting consent from the natural mother and the natural father. If we are to go by the rules, naturally if any of the parties say, "no," then the whole thing dies in its tracks.

I do not know if this a conflict, Mr. Chairman. My grandchildren are wards of this government, they are in a white family, and your department is paying for them to be taken care of. When, in fact, Madam Minister, we insisted that we take the children, we wanted them, we wanted to adopt them. The situation is not that easy. I do not know where things went wrong. Now, six years later we are still interested. They are going to court again, and they are going to get an extension, by the courts, to have those children be made wards of this government. There is not much, as an aboriginal person, I can do, because as far as the recognition of that, within the court system and within the Child Welfare Act, it does not allow for intervention by the grandparents.

I am talking about custom adoption. As far as I am concerned we are caught up in bureaucratic red tape with regard to having the department involved.