This is page numbers 691 - 717 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was justice.

Topics

Bill 18: An Act To Amend The Public Printing Act
Item 15: Notices Of Motions For First Reading Of Bills

Page 703

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 2-12(3),

The Justice House - Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality; Tabled Document 3-12(3), Report of the Commission for Constitutional Development; Tabled Document 49-12(3), Long-Term Staff Housing Strategy; Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Social Assistance Act; Bill 12, An Act to Amend the Mental Health Act; Bill 17, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94; Minister's Statement 34-12(3), Long-Term Staff Housing Strategy; Committee Report 10-12(3), Report on Tabled Document 21-12(3): Payroll Tax Act; Committee Report 11-12(3), Report on the Review of the 1993-94 Main Estimates; and, appearance by members of commission for constitutional development, with Mr. Pudluk in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

This committee will now come to order. We were dealing with Renewable Resources yesterday. I believe the Minister is not present. What is the wish of this committee? Mr. Ningark.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since the Minister is not present at this moment, I would like to suggest that we deal with Justice, Transportation and Safety and Public Services, in that order. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Does this committee agree?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. All right. We will deal with Justice when we come back from a 15 minute break.

---SHORT RECESS

Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

I would like to call the committee back to order. As I indicated before the break we will be dealing with the Department of Justice. Does the Minister have any opening remarks?

Department of Justice, Introductory Remarks

Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, Members will note that there has been an overall increase in the Department of Justice main estimates of approximately $3 million. A large proportion of that increase relates to RCMP costs, including the new police contract, their PY base deficiency and inflation. For a number of years the RCMP budget has been largely frozen by both the federal and territorial governments. Between inflation and the continued need to place members in small detachments where per member costs are substantially higher, the RCMP was not able to fill all of their approved establishment of 225 members. The increase will allow them to fill vacant positions.

In addition, part of the increase in the 1993-94 Main Estimates is as a result of the transfer of the corrections service division to the Department of Justice.

There has been a net increase of 11 PYs as a result of the corrections transfer. Five are for administrative support, one for an assistant deputy minister, who will be responsible for Solicitor General functions, and the remaining five are for community justice positions.

Amendments made this year to the Department of Justice establishment policy and goals reflect the department's priorities and direction.

The mandate now states that the administration of justice in the Northwest Territories is to be carried out in a manner that respects community and aboriginal values, and encourages communities to assume increasing responsibilities. This is based on the principle that to be effective, the justice system must be accepted and respected by the people it serves. Local involvement will ensure the system meets community needs and goals.

We wish to take a new path. We have a great deal of work ahead of us. Some of the progress will be slow. Initiatives at the local level must be community-driven, but the Department of Justice is there to help. The Standing Committee on Finance has recommended that the department develop a vision and plan of action to implement a home-grown justice and corrections system, which is suitable to the needs of aboriginal people. This is a good recommendation and consistent with the direction of the department.

The work on community justice has already begun in a number of ways. Since the administrator of the justice of the peace program came to work with the department in August, 1990, he has assisted communities to decide how many JPs they require. He has trained JPs. He has travelled extensively in the Northwest Territories to speak about justice issues and, most recently, has produced two videos which have been aired on TVNC for distance learning. These interactive programs are for teaching JPs, and also for people who are interested in learning about justice issues.

The most recent production is on circle sentencing. This sentencing process has been used with success in the Yukon, and in other places in northern Canada. A group of people, including the offender, the judge and others, such as family members of the offender and the victim, get together to discuss the offence and to decide the sentence that should be imposed.

Three more video programs are planned. These will be on how to deal with offenders who commit assaults, how to handle offenders who abuse alcohol and drugs, and on the role of community-based justice committees in relation to the courts.

Justice officials continue to be involved in consultations. At the invitation of a community, people from the Department of Justice, and other justice agencies, have been happy to attend meetings to participate in discussions on how the community can become involved in justice matters. The department encourages continuing dialogue and is working on new ways to be of help.

The Department of Justice has participated in developmental work for RCMP pilot projects in Coral Harbour and Fort Good Hope to employ residents on a part-time basis to assist with policing. The department has also contributed funding along with the federal government for some community justice proposals.

The transfer of the corrections service division to the Department of Justice is an important part of reaching our goals. With the five additional community justice positions mentioned earlier, we will have a total of 11 community justice specialists and workers. The Department of Justice now has a strong regional presence to assist with the development of justice projects. Responsibility for assisting all the communities in the NWT will be divided up among the positions.

From their review of the 1992-93 Main Estimates, the Standing Committee on Finance recommended that the Department of Justice take the lead role in developing a strategy, by October 1993, to deal with violence in the Northwest Territories. Work is under way on this. Meetings have been held at the ministerial and senior officials level with representatives from Justice, Social Services, Education and the Minister responsible for the women's directorate. Work on terms of reference is progressing. A key element in the development of the strategy will be wide consultation. As we begin to look at violence in this manner, we are finding that other jurisdictions are taking a similar coordinated approach in the development of strategies.

Our work on the recommendations of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts is continuing. A manager of systems started work with the department on February 1. One of his immediate priorities is work on the legal aid management information system. The executive director of the legal services board starts work on March 1. We will be discussing the Standing Committee on Public Accounts recommendations with him.

We have been pleased this year that due to measures taken with the cooperation of the legal services board, we have been able to contain legal aid costs within the budgeted amount. For 1993-94, we have reduced the legal aid budget to reflect the implementation of some of the cost saving measures recommended by departmental officials based on the Strength at Two Levels report.

Important departmental work will continue in other areas, such as gender equality initiatives, family law revision, commercial law development, land based and culturally relevant programming in correctional centres, and other issues of importance to northerners.

Mr. Chairman, these are my remarks. I invite Members to examine, in detail, the main estimates for the Department of Justice.

Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Does the Standing Committee on Finance have any opening remarks? Mr. Dent.

Comments By Standing Committee On Finance

Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Standing Committee on Finance is pleased to see the department respond positively to our recommendations with the development of the pro-active strategy on violence and the commencement of negotiations for additional aboriginal RCMP constables and community policing pilot projects. The committee feels there is merit to reviewing the potential benefits of a federal penitentiary and has asked the department to speed up the consideration of this issue.

With respect to community justice initiatives, we cannot wait for the communities. The Department of Justice must provide a vision, support and leadership to coax community development. The committee believes that our present justice system is not entirely suitable for aboriginal people. We must examine ways to improve the system. We should consider having elders involved in the judges' council so that they can introduce aboriginal cultural values to the justice system. The justice system is sometimes insensitive to the needs of the people it should serve.

There are many things which the government allocates resources to, such as legal aid, court parties and travel costs that do not necessarily meet the needs of aboriginal people. There is a clear lack of vision in terms of recognizing and meeting the needs of the people of the north. This deficiency is reflected in this and previous budgets. The Northwest Territories should have a home grown justice system. There are models we can learn from in other jurisdictions. It is our understanding the previous government visited the Navajo Nation and examined their method for running an independent justice system.

Mr. Chairman, there are a couple of recommendations which the committee would like to make at this time.

Committee Motion 76-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 13
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Justice develop a vision and plan of action to implement a home grown justice and corrections systems which is suitable to the needs of aboriginal people.

Committee Motion 76-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 13
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 76-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 13
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Committee Motion 76-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 13
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 76-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 13
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have one final recommendation from the Standing Committee on Finance.

Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

I move, that this committee recommends that the Department of Justice reinstate the budget item for jury duty fees to be given to people not granted civic leave in order to fulfil this duty.

Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Dent, do you have any further comments? Thank you. Would the Minister care to invite his officials in at this time?

Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I have with me the deputy minister of Justice, Mr. Geoff Bickert, and the director of corrections, Mr. John Dillon.

Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Are there any general comments?

Does the committee agree that we go page by page?

Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What page are we on?

Committee Motion 77-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 14
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

We are on page 06-9. Mr. Gargan.

General Comments