Mr. Chairman, my view is that it is not something that would take a great deal of planning to initiate. It has been initiated in other parts of the world. It has been done in and worked on in parts of the United States and certainly in Canada. The federal government has indicated, through the Solicitor General, that it is open to work in this area if that is what we want to do. All we are indicating at this time, with the amount of money, time and energy that we have, that this is not an area we have been directed by any communities or organizations to focus on. If we are, then it is not going to be as work-intensive as the work we are trying to do now, which is to help communities assume responsibility for the work that is being done largely for them by the courts, RCMP and judges. Communities are saying, "We want to develop community alternatives to what is happening to young and adult offenders by developing community-based institutions for sentencing and open custody."

Mr. Chairman, we have not received any suggestions from the Dene Nation, the Metis Association, the Dene Cultural Institute, the Inuvialuit, the TFN or any organization to look at the idea of an aboriginal police force. If they do, we would be interested in sitting down and talking about it. That is the trouble with the vision idea. If the government makes a vision statement, then we are attacked for having the audacity to tell people what we think is best for them. If we take the other view that it should be all community-based and community-driven, then we sorely suffer for lack of vision. We are trying to take a partnership approach to it. That seems to be the best solution.

Mr. Chairman, the deputy minister, Mr. Bickert, will answer the question.

The final bill for the costs of the additional RCMP services regarding the strike, the technical squad, has been submitted to us but we have not given any indication that we are intending to pay it and it is still under dispute.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to know if there is a formula used to establish the numbers of RCMP in the north. We have a total population of 57,000. We have 65 communities spread across this vast area. Some communities have a very small population, some with 1,000 or 2,000. Some have one RCMP and some have two, but is there a formula that is commonly used in other jurisdictions to establish the number of RCMP that would be required to enforce laws and to carry out whatever duties RCMP carry out as part of their mandate on behalf of the province or territory which contracts them?

In Yellowknife we have an estimated 16,000 people. How many RCMP do we have here on active RCMP duty? Is Yellowknife serviced to the degree it should be, given the nature and complexity of the city? Is there a formula? If there is, what is it?

Mr. Chairman, there is no formula that is used across the country or here. It has all been done through negotiations based on what we think is a fair allocation of money for the policing needs we have. We have said the total number of members should be approximately 225, and we try to budget to meet that. In Yellowknife there are 27 positions allocated, of which 24 of those positions are staffed. This provides services to Dettah and includes eight aboriginal members and five female members.

Yellowknife has assigned to it 24 active members. You said 27 of which 24 are active, so there are only three doing other things. I was under the impression that there were far fewer active RCMP on the beat for this city. Perhaps, I have received incorrect information. Obviously, you have more current and more accurate information than I have, but I was under the impression there were far fewer active RCMP in the city, than there would be in communities. For example, in Hay River where there is a much smaller population. Even if you include the surrounding areas, I believe the have 17. Fort Smith has six or seven. They have much smaller populations and the geographical areas that they serve are not much larger. How do they come up with a formula such as this?

Mr. Chairman, it is my understanding there are 24 actual staff which are policing Yellowknife. They also have the support of the drug enforcement section which is headquarters based. On the average, on a per capita basis, there is the same ratio as in most parts of the territories. It is roughly the same in relation to population. It is better in Hay River. It is roughly twice as