Good afternoon. Before we proceed with the orders of the day, I would like to recognize in the gallery a former colleague, Mr. John T'Seleie.

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I understand John has been drafted to play for the media hockey team. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my statement concerns the health billings dispute with the federal government. On December 8, 1992, the Government of the Northwest Territories began a legal action in the federal court of Canada against the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and Health and Welfare Canada.

The legal action is claiming about $80 million in unpaid invoices for hospital care services provided to aboriginal persons in the Northwest Territories. Payment for treatment of aboriginal persons in the NWT is a federal responsibility and is covered under contribution agreements dated October 28, 1986 and August 23, 1989.

The preamble of the contribution agreement reads as follows, and I quote: "WHEREAS Parliament annually approves the payment of a contribution to the territories (in addition to the amount payable pursuant to the Hospital Insurance and Diagnostic Services Act) so calculated that Canada will assume the total cost of hospital care provided to status Indians and Inuit as interpreted in the Indian Act."

Clause one of both agreements states, and I quote: "This contribution is being made available to the territories for the purpose of financing the total cost of hospital care for status Indians and Inuit."

Mr. Speaker, it is the position of the GNWT that Canada's legal obligations under these contribution agreements were not altered by the 1988 health transfer agreement, although the method of calculating the reciprocal billing amounts was affected slightly. During the year 1990, disputes between Canada and the Government of the Northwest Territories arose relating to aspects of the calculation of hospital costs and the legal status of nursing stations providing care.

During subsequent discussion between officials, Canada began to advance the position that the 1988 health transfer agreement had devolved to the GNWT all responsibility for the provision and funding of hospital care for aboriginal persons.

This position is advanced by Mr. Richard Van Loon, who was then the assistant deputy minister of the Department of Indian and Northern Development, in his letter of April 4,1991, to Mr. Bob Cowcill, former deputy minister of Health for the GNWT. Mr. Van Loon states, and I quote:

"DIAND's position is that Health and Welfare Canada transferred, and the GNWT accepted, a fully funded hospital and health care system when it took over the responsibility for the Baffin health services in 1986 and 1987 and the remainder of nursing stations and health services in the west in 1988. The acceptance of these program transfers also assumes GNWT's responsibility for the subsequent delivery and complete funding of these services to all residents from existing financial resources."

Mr. Speaker, it has always been the understanding and position of the GNWT that the effect of the 1988 health transfer was to mandate the GNWT to deliver, but not to fund, hospital care to aboriginal persons. This position was clearly articulated by the Government Leader, the Honourable Nellie Cournoyea in her letter of September 28, 1991, to the Honourable Tom Siddon when she stated, and I quote:

"In our telephone discussion, you inquired as to why the health transfer should be treated any differently than other federal program devolution's to the GNWT. The answer is simple. The Government of Canada, represented by the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, had in place before each health transfer, and renewed after each transfer, separate contribution agreements with the GNWT so calculated that Canada would assume the total cost of hospital and medical care provided to status Indians and Inuit.'

"With each of the successive health transfers, the GNWT assumed the full service delivery responsibility for the areas affected and the financial risk for growth beyond the health transfer funding amounts received for Health headquarters costs, medical travel (excluding the non-insured co-payment for status Indian and Inuit), and for hospital and medical care services for non-natives. The GNWT was, however, afforded protection through the DIAND contribution agreements against escalating hospital and medical care costs beyond any transferred amounts received for Indians and Inuit.

"In our view, DIAND must recognize its fundamental responsibilities to registered Indians and Inuit, which were not altered by the transfer of health services, and the unique role of GNWT as the agent of DIAND in managing a health services delivery system on their behalf through a legal agreement. We believe we are doing so in an effective, efficient, and culturally sensitive manner."

Paragraph 32 of the statement of defence states, in part, and I quote: "The phased devolution and all associated federal funding provided a complete and unified health service for status Indians and Inuit utilizing the hospitals, nursing stations and related health services previously operated by the Department of National Health and Welfare."

Canada goes further and alleges the following in paragraph 34 of the statement of defence, and I quote: "Status Indians and Inuit groups were consulted and they approved of the phased devolution of health services from the Department of National Health and Welfare to the Government of the Northwest Territories."

Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories is determined it must take all lawful steps and means to resist Canada's devolution interpretation of the 198 health transfer agreement for two basic and compelling reasons:

1. Financial

If the GNWT has total responsibility for the funding of aboriginal hospital care then there is no limit to the amount of financial off-loading that can be done by Canada to the detriment of hospital care for aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories.

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2. Historical And Political

Historically and continuing to the present day, there has always been a special relationship between Canada and aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories with respect to health care. It would be wrong for Canada and the GNWT to interfere with and change that special relationship without the informed consent of aboriginal people.

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It is the position of the GNWT that it has not been, nor will it every be, a participant in a transaction which interferes with any special relationship enjoyed by aboriginal people with Canada, unless prior informed consent has been given.

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The GNWT has made every effort to induce Canada to return to the negotiating table pursuant to finding an interim solution for the next three years. Thereafter, Mr. Speaker, tripartite discussions will have to be held by the Government of the Northwest Territories, Canada and Nunavut to transfer the Nunavut portion of health services.

In the view of the GNWT, if Canada wishes to attempt to devolve aspects of its special health care relationship with aboriginal persons, the opportune time to explore the question is during the Nunavut discussions. Mr. Speaker, Canada refuses to return to the negotiating table and continues to insist that it no longer has any responsibility for aboriginal hospital care in the Northwest Territories.

The Government of the Northwest Territories will not materially interfere with the special relationship between Canada and aboriginal peoples concerning health care, without first obtaining the informed consent of the aboriginal people.

Accordingly, the GNWT can never acquiesce or agree to Canada's devolution interpretation of the 1988 health transfer agreement.

As a result, the Government of the Northwest Territories has instructed its lawyers to take the position that if the court accepts that the legal effect of the 1988 health transfer agreement is to devolve all responsibility for aboriginal hospital care to the GNWT, then the court must go on to rescind the 1988 health transfer agreement on the basis of mistake or fundamental error as to the nature and effect of the agreement. If the court was to order rescission the result would be a return to Canada of the hospitals, nursing stations, equipment and personnel that were transferred in 1988.

Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories regrets exposing the current health system to the possibility of being returned to Canada, but there is no other reasonable alternative presently available to resolve the impasse with Canada. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories strives for excellence in its programs and services. I am pleased to announce that the conference board of Canada selected Qitiqliq School in Arviat as a 1992-93 winner of the national award for excellence in business-education partnerships in the elementary and secondary category...

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...and Arctic College and the NWT tourism training group as a winner in the post-secondary category.

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A community planning team made up of representatives of Qitiqliq School and other partners in Arviat have been developing innovative approaches to secondary programming since 1990 in areas such as trades technologies, business and entrepreneurship, as well as skills for independent living.

In the trades area a local business, Leonard & Associates Ltd, has agreed to participate in partnership with the school to provide students with a mentor, job shadowing and work exposure. Students gain employment skills and practical experience in using tools and equipment. The school has also developed an office management services and local organizations have referred their bookkeeping and secretarial work to the school business program.

Qitiqliq School exemplifies the kind of success we can experience when secondary programs are extended to communities. In 1992 this school graduated 12 students from the grade 12 program. Businesses and other organizations are full partners with Qitiqliq School and the school's accomplishments are a source of community pride.

The winners in the post-secondary category, Arctic College and the NWT tourism training group, have been working together since 1989 in the delivery of tourism training. So far the college has trained over 400 people for the NWT tourism industry, 90 per cent of whom are aboriginal residents.

Programs such as guide training, tourism management and hospitality training are offered as part of tourism training. In partnership with the NWT tourism training group, the college is striving to develop professionalism and quality service in the NWT tourism industry.

I congratulate the community of Arviat, Arctic College and the NWT tourism group for their accomplishments. These two successful partnerships between business and education are achievements we all can be proud of. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have been concerned for many years about the inclination of governments across the country to seek a big bang solution to economic problems. It has long been my opinion that mega projects such as a natural gas pipeline or massive mining projects would proceed despite what governments do and not because of what governments do. They would be largely self-financed and what they would ask from government is consistency, stability, fairness and the clear framework from which they can operate. They do very little to advance our economy for the long-term growth of our people. They often help to create a boom and bust cycle which is socially destabilizing. However, in the large Canadian context they help fill the federal government coffers where we have to recognize we get 85 per cent of our money from. It is obviously in our interest to make sure that they proceed and that we do not put unnecessary obstacles in their paths. The mistake is in believing that mega projects will provide a future for our people. We have a small population spread over a very large area. The challenge for our people is to identify some small niches where we can support the few families in every community if possible.

This afternoon, Mr. Speaker, there is a very important session at the winter cities convention dealing with the issue of transportation. I shall be absent from the House because this is of great concern to my constituents and of interest to many people of the Northwest Territories, and it may have some impact into our future economic development. Thank you.

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Over the past few months honourable Members and government employees have been concerned about the implementation of the government staff housing strategy. On March 11, 1993 discussions were held in this House and Motion 81-12(3) was passed in committee of the whole. This motion detailed some of the strategies and directions that ordinary Members felt were fair in implementing the strategy. During the discussions the Minister of Personnel responded to the motion expressing the government's concerns regarding the motion and what they could or could not accept. However, to date we have not heard any official response from the Cabinet on this motion. Mr. Speaker, there is still much confusion in the communities and tenants are still

not aware of the official position and strategy at this time. I understand that a letter has been sent to all tenants on March 17, 1993, and it details the changes made to the staff housing strategy. In the letter, implementation dates have been specified. I believe it is 15 per cent on August 1, 1993, 15 per cent on August 1, 1994, and increased to full market rent on August 1, 1995. There were many other issues and items detailed in this letter to the staff. Mr. Speaker, I am concerned that, again, this government is proceeding full boar on a strategy without consulting MLAs. Mr. Speaker, I will be raising questions on this issue at a later time today. Mahsi.

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Thank you, Mr. Koe. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, I had the pleasure of visiting Nanook School in Apex. I visited some very dedicated young people in class. At the time I visited they were discussing leadership. The children and their very dedicated staff, including the caretaker, Mr. Aku Kownirk are making the very best of their temporary accommodation at the old IODE hall. Also, they have been very closely following the political process, discussions in this House, letters from the Minister of Public Works, the Baffin Divisional Board of Education, the Minister of Education, the Niaqunguut Education Council about their new school. The students have seen the plans and they have participated in discussions about the site. This process has been a great education in the political process for these children. I do hope their involvement in this process will lead to good results.

Mr. Speaker, these children are very anxious to have a gym in their new school. They want to find ways of actively participating in the decision-making process. They have given me a package of messages they made themselves, including drawings of each MLA, including the Minister of Education. I will now distribute these. Mr. Speaker, I am delighted that these young people have taken it upon themselves to participate in our political process. They also told me that in addition to these messages, they will now be praying for a new gym. So will I. Qujannamiik. Thank you.

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Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister of Finance, the Honourable John Pollard, made a statement today about the health billings dispute. I am finding it very difficult to sit back and not say anything about it. Mr. Speaker, I am a treaty Indian and I am proud to be Dene. This dispute affects my immediate family and the majority of the people in my constituency that I represent in this Legislative Assembly. The people who are non-aboriginal or Metis people in my constituency understand that the majority of people in my constituency are treaty and running for this position, I indicated to people that one of the issues which has to be cleared up is the issue between treaty Indian people in the west and the federal government. This government does not take that very seriously because there are many chiefs and band councils in the west who are saying that there are programs and services which they are entitled to that are being handled in a public government forum, and they are not satisfied with that arrangement. This health billings dispute is a good example, Mr. Speaker, about that arrangement.

The Government of the Northwest Territories has made arrangements with the federal government to provide health services to treaty Indians and Inuit. In my particular case -- I am speaking only about treaty Indians -- treaty rights are in jeopardy. There is a danger and I am scared of this situation on behalf of the treaty Indians in the west. My rights are being negotiated between this government and the federal government, and the treaty Indians themselves who are going to be affected by the results of this dispute are not directly involved. They have to be involved.

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I know the federal government's position...

Mr. Antoine, your allotted time has elapsed.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue. Mahsi.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the federal government's position says that the status Indian and Inuit groups were consulted and they approved of the phased devolution of health services from the federal government to the Government of the Northwest Territories. I totally disagree with that. Never, in my opinion, was approval or consent given. My understanding is that the territorial government will administer the health services on behalf of the federal government. Otherwise, if the treaty Indians knew this was the case, they would never have approved this arrangement in this first place. Mahsi.

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Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell with respect to the purpose of licences to retailers.

Section 58(1) of the Liquor Act requires that all money received from licence fees are deposited to the credit of the Government of the Northwest Territories in a special account called the "liquor revolving fund." Subsection 58(2) states, "all other money derived from the administration shall be deposited in the consolidated revenue fund." The fact money received from licence fees are deposited to the consolidated revenue fund implies that at least part of the purpose of the fee is to raise government revenue.

The act empowers the Liquor Licensing Board to make regulations "prescribing the rights, privileges, conditions and obligations attaching to the licences" and also to fix the fees that are payable. Holding a liquor licence is a privilege, and is a privilege for which a licence fee must be paid.

There are many other privileges for which the government charges a fee. For example, there is a fee to register a vehicle and another fee to drive a vehicle. There is a fee for a hunting licence and a separate graduated fee for hunting tags. All of these fees produce revenues. Thank you.

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to oral question, asked by Mr. Gargan on March 11, 1993, regarding the impact of changes to federal UIC legislation.

On December 2, 1992, as part of the economic statement, the federal Minister of Finance announced a number of changes to the Unemployment Insurance Act. These changes included:

1. A freeze on unemployment insurance premium rates for employees and employers, at 1992 levels;

2. An exemption from additional UI premiums for small businesses which increase employment;

3. A freeze on average UI benefits at 1992-93 levels; and,

4. Disqualification from receiving benefits for those who quit their jobs without just cause, or who are fired for cause.

The first change will benefit all employers and employees in the Northwest Territories, including the Government of the Northwest Territories. The second change will benefit new and small businesses in the Northwest Territories and will provide an incentive to create employment. The third change will mean that benefit levels for NWT recipients in 1993-94 will not increase. Finally, the last change will reduce slightly the number of eligible claims from what would otherwise be the case. In 1992, approximately six per cent of UI claimants in Canada fell into these categories. The corresponding percentage for the Northwest Territories is not available.

As a result of representations by various interest groups, the legislation originally tabled in the House of Commons has been amended to broaden the definition of "just cause." Nine reasons are being added to the five reasons already in the Unemployment Insurance Act.

In 1992, on average, there were 1,866 recipients of regular unemployment insurance benefits in the Northwest Territories. On average, the total amount of monthly regular benefits paid out was $2.4 million.

There will be no change in the treatment of seasonal workers such as fishermen, fire fighters or surveyors, who are laid off at the end of their employment. Seasonal employees, as with all employees in the Northwest Territories, will need 20 weeks of employment in the last year to qualify for benefits. However, if they have worked at least 14 weeks in the year before that, only 10 weeks are required in the last year to qualify for benefits. These eligibility criteria have not changed as a result of the amended legislation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Koe.