Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, the new access program is being used now, it is being implemented now. We have had over 1,000 applications for access programs throughout the Northwest Territories. People seem very receptive to it. The new programs, if you compare it to the old HAP program, the CNIT levels were lowered to be able to allow income people into it. It basically allows disabled people, elders, or people who are too busy working, to have a unit built for them. It means they would have to pay back a higher percentage. The program itself is tied in so it does not exceed 30 per cent of anyone's gross income. The program encourages people to move into home ownership and so far it seems to be going very well. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there any general comments? Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Can the Minister advise as to the impact of the federal cutbacks, or does he know yet? Last week, I believe, he made a Minister's statement about receiving information regarding cutbacks to social housing and I think he tentatively tried to contact or was going to meet with the federal Minister of Housing. Can the Minister advise us as to where we are with the information regarding cutbacks?

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I told Members of this House a few weeks ago, my officials had been involved in a meeting with CMHC officials in Winnipeg. At that

time, they advised the Housing Corporation officials they were recommending to their Minister to reduce our portion, we are not only going to be reduced by ten per cent again this year and we have allowed for that, but also they would reduce the percentage of the pie which we receive. Right now we receive 6.44 per cent of the national housing budget. That has been protected for the unique reasons that we have in the Northwest Territories. They are recommending to their Minister to reduce us to 5.15 per cent this year and continue to reduce it, in the end we would end up with .93 per cent of the national budget. When you shake that into dollar figures it means approximately a 97 per cent reduction since 1991 of the social housing budget from the federal government. The territories would be reduced from $43.4 million in 1991 to $1.5 million in 1994, that represents a 97 per cent reduction.

I have been in contact with the Minister's office through letters as well as phone calls on a weekly basis. It is my understanding that he has to approve or agree with any reductions. We are lobbying him vigorously to try to get him to agree to continue to protect the Northwest Territories' 6.44 per cent. Thank you. We should know by the end of the month.

Thank you. Are there any general comments? Mr. Koe.

Those are dramatic numbers and will obviously have a great impact on the north where we need housing and there is a tremendous shortfall. Our communities are growing and many houses are aging. With numbers such as those we are never going to keep up, let alone catch up, we keep falling behind. What strategy does the Minister intend to use in terms of trying to address this severe cutback which is pending from the federal government?

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Presently the Cabinet is working to develop a government-wide strategy to deal with the withdrawal of funding. The majority of the funding being withdrawn from the federal government is for aboriginal peoples. In funding social housing we service approximately 98 per cent aboriginal people. There has been no reduction in funding in southern provinces to aboriginal peoples on reserve. They continue to enjoy the same level of funding. They have had no reductions. It is only the aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories that the federal government seems to be targeting for some reason. We are working with the advisory committee on social housing as well as other northern aboriginal groups and our two federal MPs to put the maximum amount of pressure on the federal government. We also have to make the Canadian public aware of our serious housing shortages in the north. We will address some of this through the Cabinet strategy to put the pressure on the federal government. The federal government, in the budget reduction exercise, treats the Northwest Territories the same as it treats the south up to this date, but now it seems to be targeting the Northwest Territories for more reductions than the southern jurisdictions. It is a clear case of off-loading.

Thank you. Are there any general comments? Mr. Koe.

I am still concerned that when you propose to meet with the federal government there is a good possibility that this Assembly will be recessed or prorogued. I still do not have a good understanding of what type of strategy, what methods, you are going to use to convince the federal government that we need to maintain at least the current levels of funding which they supply us with. With the information you have provided to us, it seems we need to do something drastic to get the message across. From you in your statements, we are not proposing something dramatic, dynamic or different to get our message across.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

I agree 100 per cent with the Member that we need to do something dramatic, something which would catch the public's eye. Before, all the federal government was interested in doing was talking about constitutional development, they did not want to address the issues which affect the people of the Northwest Territories. Housing issues were not a major issue to them, constitutional development was the major issue and they did not want to pay attention to the issues that people were concerned about. Now, it seems the federal government is only interested in addressing the leadership issue. That is what they are preoccupied with. They are a ship without a captain and they want to get a captain in place. They are not interested in the problems of the Canadian people or the people of the Northwest Territories, and whether or not we have people experiencing major social problems because of the lack of housing, people living in plywood shacks on beaches, tar- paper cabins in our communities, or 20 people in one house, the federal government does not seem to want to address any of these issues. They have an election coming up and they seem to want to be geared up to spread the money where they can collect the most votes. That is what it seems like to me. I agree with the Member, we need to take some drastic action and try to get some publicity on this issue. I am trying to address this through the Cabinet, to come up with a strategy. We should have that prior to this House adjourning.

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

We approved a new committee to assist the Minister in strategizing with regard to housing issues, made up of six other MLAs. I hope the Minister is going to be consulting with them rather than going straight to the Cabinet. That was the whole intent, we are supposed to be consulted. I hope the Minister is going to be meeting and utilizing the wisdom and knowledge of other Members who are on that committee, rather than just proceeding directly without consulting the Members.

The other issue I would like to raise, is one I have raised many times about tendering. We have just seen tender calls in many papers across the north for housing. My concern is the issue of putting the tenders out in smaller packages so business people in the north are able to bid and bid competitively on the tender packages. Yet, we are still receiving large tenders. One in the west, which I have made reference to several times in the House, is for 51 units. Very few businesses in the north, unless they are a conglomeration or a huge company, can afford to tender 51 units. The issue I am making here is we have to break down these tendering packages so companies which are in these smaller communities where these houses are to be built can compete. I know the Minister, Cabinet and government have made statements, but the evidence does not seem to be there. I would just like to raise that. I see it in your departmental objectives, revised contracting policies and procedures. I encourage and support that, but we need more evidence that it is happening.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To develop the strategy on making the public aware, as well as the federal government, about the dire straits we are in for housing, I said right at the very beginning we would include the Advisory Committee on Social Housing, and I also mentioned Cabinet. It has to fall in the overall strategy of Cabinet as well. The one individual tender which the Member is talking about, he is correct, it was a fairly large tender, but I believe it was awarded to a northern firm.

The evidence of willing or wanting to help the north and the communities develop is there. There are many different ways we do that. We do that by breaking up our tenders: supplies shipped; erect tenders; labour only tenders; in order for small businesses to benefit. We also do project management, negotiated contracts and proposal calls. The rent supp, specifically, is broken down for every community. Proposal calls are put out for people to be landlords of their own land. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

I have just one more comment. Another definitive objective is to implement a strategy to encourage and maximize training related to construction in order to increase opportunities for employment on housing projects in communities. Again, this is an area where I am fully supportive of the initiative. Last summer, there was a housing project in Fort McPherson which was highly successful, yet we have heard very little from your office as to the success of the project. I understand they completed their contract using almost 100 per cent local labour, many of the goods and materials were purchased locally or from the north, and they saved money. I think they even gave money and materials back to the department, which I think is quite a feat. When we are doing contracts, very rarely do contractors give back money or material. Yet, I do not see or hear the department using this as an example of a successful venture. I would encourage, where we have successful projects, to wave the flag and mention it. I also encourage more and more of these types of projects in our communities. They are, I think, what we want to do, but we have to advertise, broadcast and make note of the successes we have. In many cases they are few and far between, so when we have a good one we have to broadcast it. Mahsi.

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, that project was very successful in Fort McPherson. It was one of our project management projects, where we managed the project and sent in a manager to work with the community. It maximized local labour, there was one in Pangnirtung and another one in Fort Resolution. They all went fairly well, including the project in Fort McPherson. I congratulate the people in Fort McPherson for doing an excellent job.

Thank you. Are there any general comments? Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to say that I am pleased with the good working relationship which I have been able to develop with the district office and the relatively new district manager in Baffin, Mr. Peter Scott. All the reports I am receiving is that he is responsive and, certainly, that has been my experience in dealing with constituency issues with him. I would also like to note that I have found the Minister and his staff responsive when I have brought issues forward to them regarding housing issues in my constituency. This is the way I like to deal with issues, so I will not be vocal in committee of the whole or in the House because matters are being dealt with as they are being brought up and to my satisfaction.

I would like to note that we are developing a process in my constituency to get the elected representatives of the citizens of Iqaluit more involved in housing through active involvement of the town council, including the mayor, on the Iqaluit housing authority. I think this is a good direction and in keeping with the community transfer initiative. I hope that it will eventually lead to the town perhaps taking over responsibility for housing in the community, but we will take it one step at a time. In the meantime, I think the Iqaluit housing authority was more representative and more accountable to the people, until these changes were approved by the present Minister.

I also want to note that I believe a good job was done by the corporation informing the public on the new access and home ownership programs in light of the short time frame which was allowed them. I think they made a massive effort to reach out to communities in the Baffin region and Iqaluit to explain this program in the short time available.

That leads me to a problem which probably is a massive problem, and probably originates with the federal government. However, it has to do with the availability of home ownership units. The Minister of Personnel's staff housing initiative is designed to encourage both the government to get out of staff housing and government employees to purchase or build their own units. In a place like Iqaluit where the new rent increases are putting a great deal of financial pressure on employees who would like to build or buy, there is now therefore a staggering demand for home ownership units. As of this year we have four units available and a handful of developed lots. The strategy of the Minister of Personnel is working, employees want to build or buy units, but there is no allocation to my riding, which has a very high proportion of eligible and interested employees, to meet this demand.

I suspect that the housing needs survey, which was done, did not take into account potential home owners from government employees. I suspect that it looked at existing public housing tenants. That is why there have been three or four units allocated in Iqaluit, whereas, in fact, because of the high proportion of civil servants there is a very high demand from that new category of people. Not only were they happy under the old rents and were not seriously considering buying or building their own units, but now there is a new demand. I wanted to raise that here and note that I do not think the Minister is going to be able to fix it quickly or easily. I do want it noted that if, as a total government, the desire is to encourage government employees to build their own units, the home ownership program has to be expanded and it has to accommodate, at least, some of these needs which are emerging. I will note, again, as I have done also in this House, that employees in Iqaluit do not have the option of buying detached units because there are only a few, it is mostly row housing rental multiple units. It is the home ownership program that is made to fit most employees' requirements. We do not have anywhere near the numbers available.

That leads me to make some comments on the much larger issue which faces us all, and that is the potential further cuts in our allocation to the Northwest Territories by the Government of Canada. The worst case scenario, which we do not like to think about, would have staggering implications throughout the Northwest Territories. I want to say here and now, Mr. Chairman, because Mr. Koe has referred to the possibility of decisions coming down while the House is not in session, that if these staggering cuts materialize, and I sincerely hope that the Minister's good offices with the Honourable Elmer MacKay will not result in that disastrous scenario, however, if it happens I will be working with the Speaker, my colleagues and the chairman of the OMC to urge that an emergency session of the Legislature be immediately held, which is allowed under our rules, and to urge that we then meet to consider drastic action. This will be a crisis like none other we have ever faced before. On the heels of the health funding crisis it will be a very serious blow.

I think it will require drastic action of the kind that we took in the fall of 1981 when the constitution was threatening to be amended to the prejudice of aboriginal rights. I think we will have to consider that kind of drastic action if this worse case scenario merges. I want to note that the Minister I am sure will have, not just my support, but the support of all Members of this House in some kind of united and strong action if it is required to protest some of these disastrous scenarios that are being contemplated in Ottawa. Those are my general comments, Mr. Chairman, thank you.

Thank you. Does the Minister care to respond?