Good afternoon. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, at a meeting in 1989, the Assembly of First Nations expressed concern over the use and preservation of aboriginal languages in Canada and the need to entrench aboriginal language rights in the Canadian Constitution.

Every year since that meeting, March 31 has been celebrated as aboriginal languages day - a day that is set aside to recognize and appreciate the survival and richness of aboriginal languages. This is a celebration that receives the full support of the Government of the Northwest Territories and the people it represents.

In the Northwest Territories, Mr. Speaker, the government and the Legislative Assembly took steps, a number of years ago to pass a Languages Act that recognizes aboriginal languages, as well as English and French, as official languages.

This recognition is something that is not in place in other Canadian jurisdictions and today would be a good time to remind people throughout this country of the importance of promoting and preserving aboriginal languages.

The survival of aboriginal languages requires the support and encouragement of elders, parents, schools, communities and all levels of government. All of us share a responsibility for the future of our languages.

In conclusion, it is appropriate for all Members of the Legislative Assembly to recognize the important work and dedication displayed by the members of the language bureau who make it possible for this House to operate in all the official languages of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Allooloo.

Mr. Speaker, on March 25 in Grise Fiord, a second public meeting was held to address concerns over ocean dumping of industrial scrap in Canada's Arctic region.

During the meeting, the Government of the Northwest Territories and Inuit representatives continued to object strongly to issuing a permit to allow PanArctic Oil to dispose 400 tonnes of scrap metal into the ocean adjacent to Lougheed Island. Mr. Speaker, concern was also expressed over the Government of Canada's general policy of authorizing the dumping of industrial scrap material in the Arctic Ocean.

Our government and Inuit representatives recommended that PanArctic's permit be withheld until a thorough review of ocean dumping in the Arctic is done. They also recommended that as much material as possible be reused and a proper review of disposal options be undertaken.

These recommendations and others made during the meeting are being forwarded to the Honourable Jean Charest, the federal Minister of the Environment. I have written to Mr. Charest urging him to express support for the recommendations prior to April 15, when PanArctic's ocean dumping permit comes into effect. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Gargan.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the spring of 1991, a report was prepared by the traditional knowledge working group and subsequently tabled in this House. Mr. Speaker, I am appalled at the lack of action that has followed the transmission of this important report. This was a significant project in which many northern elders and community representatives devoted hours of work. The Dene Cultural Institute, the Metis Heritage Association, the Inuvialuit social development program, the Inuit Cultural Institute and other organizations were directly involved.

The report which came out of this exercise should have been seized by the government as a valuable blueprint for incorporating the traditional wisdom of our communities within

the government framework. Instead, it has sat on the shelf. There has been no meaningful response from this government. The report has been neglected and the importance of traditional knowledge has been treated lightly. Mr. Speaker, I find that to be shameful.

Mr. Speaker, my honourable colleagues for Inuvik and Keewatin Central raised this issue back in June, 1992. Each time, the Minister of the day has indicated that government bureaucrats are preparing a paper about the report for review by Cabinet. I have never understood why that is necessary. The report is well written and the working group's recommendations stand on their own merits. I have also not understood why it has taken the Cabinet two years to deal with the report.

Clearly, the process of incorporating aboriginal wisdom and traditional knowledge within the workings of public government do not seem to be a priority of this government. It should be a priority, Mr. Speaker. I intend to pursue this matter until I am satisfied that the appropriate level of attention has been paid to it. Mahsi.

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. On November 22, 1992, the Minister of Justice tabled Tabled Document 19-12(3), the 1992 Master Plan for Corrections Service Division. This report was prepared by a Vancouver consulting firm, the Apra Group Incorporated, in August, 1992. This report examines the existing system of corrections and justice in the Northwest Territories and goes on to list the number of needs apparent in that system. It then makes a number of recommendations. The report suggests two alternative service delivery models. Model A advocates the retention of the existing institutional base system with a number of capital upgrading and expansion proposals. Model B advocates a community-based system with emphasis on alternatives of incarceration while also recommending capital upgrading and expansion of present facilities. The report also examines and compares the advantages and disadvantages of both models and recommends model B as the preferred option.

The report is scathing as to the inadequacies of the present system. The number of inmates is increasing beyond what anyone had anticipated and the existing facilities and corrections system must be vastly improved. The recommended model concentrates on community justice and open custody instead of institutionalization. It offers alternatives to incarceration using jail only in the most serious of cases. It advocates a holistic approach to treatment while offering more sentencing options.

Mr. Speaker, I support some of the recommendations of the report, especially references to strengthening and utilizing community justice committees and systems. For changes to be made and to become effective there must be commitments from the corrections and justice system, and corresponding commitments by communities and regional organizations to practice the method of community corrections.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi. The one area which I have some difficulty with is the recommendation to upgrade and expand the existing facilities in Iqaluit, Hay River and Yellowknife. Mr. Speaker, my opinion is that new beds are required and that new facilities be built, and that these new facilities be located in regions in centrally located communities which do not have adequate institutions. For example, there are no institutions of these kinds in the Inuvik region, the Kitikmeot region and the Deh Cho area. I fully support the intention to repatriate federal offenders back to the north and support the construction of new facilities to house these prisoners, but place them in communities which need economic boosts. Mahsi.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to express my appreciation of the aboriginal languages day. The aboriginal languages which have been recognized as the official languages in the Northwest Territories are, indeed, numerous, but it shows the tolerance that we have for each other which has been passed on to us by our ancestors. They came before us, and they used and formed the languages which we speak of today. However, they have been formed over many centuries and they have always had much to do with the land and the surroundings in which they lived. Much like other cultures, their language increased with the amount of interaction with other peoples.

The language of Inuit varies from region to region and from community to community, in fact, it varies from country to country and it varies within the communities. For example, I speak a dialect with is very distinct from those in other communities. Even inside the community of Baker Lake there are four or five different dialects spoken. This is because the community is made up of people from the surrounding area, but it also has people who moved in during the 1960s. The people to the north, from the southeastern Kitikmeot area, form one dialect. There are people from the south who come from the Paalirmuit area who form another dialect. There are those who originated in the Igloolik/Repulse Bay area who form another dialect. There are those who come from the Back River/Garry Lake area who speak another dialect.

My most recent ancestors were probably closest to the community of Baker Lake. They came from the Thelon River area which specifically is the Aberdeen Lake and the Schultz Lake area. In today's society we also have people who are transient and come from various communities in the Baffin region. I would also like to add at this point there are so many times when I am being interviewed by Inuktitut CBC personnel that we often revert to English because we have difficulty in clarifying ourselves.

Mr. Speaker, by tolerance the people who have varying languages are able to live together and form a very cohesive group. The people who I represent prove that. I have much respect for the people who work in this Assembly as interpreter/translators because I know we are not always the easiest people to work with because so often we want something done yesterday. Today, Mr. Speaker, I give my applause to them.

Thank you, Mr. Arngna'naaq. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to pay tribute to one of the oldest elders in the Keewatin region, John Kavik, who died at the age of 97 last Saturday. Mr. Kavik was world famous because of his artistic abilities as a carver, and collectors from museums all over the world have many of his pieces.

I would like to extend my deepest sympathy to his family and in particular to the Udjuk and Twyee families who have been good friends of mine for the last 25 years. Thank you.

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Arvaluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to make a short statement on national aboriginal languages day. First, I would like to thank the Assembly of First Nations for declaring this special day. I hope that all aboriginal people will join in celebrating this day.

We have much to celebrate. Our languages in the NWT are still alive and we still use them every day. Our government is the only legislature in North America which has given official status to aboriginal languages.

We can learn a great deal from the achievements of French people in the NWT and in Canada as a whole about language rights and how to fight for these rights.

Why do I care about my language, Inuktitut? I grew up speaking my language. All my cultural knowledge and language was taught to me in a traditional way. We live in a very cold climate, and by understanding my language I learn more about the climate. I am very happy today that I can speak Inuktitut and I can think better using my knowledge of Inuktitut. I can go out on the land and remember the stories I was told in my language as a child and I feel happy about those times. I do not think I could have learned all this traditional knowledge if I had not spoken Inuktitut.

Your time has elapsed, Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Arvaluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and my fellow MLAs. I see many young people today who are not able to speak their language well. Some of these people do not speak English well either. I think these young people feel a bit lost because they cannot really understand everything when the elders try to explain things to them. I encourage young people to try hard to learn their language well, talk to the elders, listen to those who are fluent in their language and ask questions. The elders need to feel what they have to say is useful in today's world and they need to feel appreciated. I am happy to be fluent in my language so I can get advice from elders and enjoy their company. We must remember that young people are the only hope for the survival of our languages. Let us try hard to help them learn our language, appreciate it and feel pride that comes with the strong cultural identity.

I hope our government will continue to support aboriginal languages and I know I will do all I can to use it and teach it as often as possible. I also thank the Secretary of State for funding for aboriginal languages. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also wish to recognize this special day for aboriginal languages. Mr. Speaker, first of all I have a short comment. When I was trying to get elected as an MLA, I stressed the fact that I would be pursuing aboriginal languages in the House and I am very proud to be able to speak in my first language. Recognizing all the interpreters here, who speak different languages, I am very proud to be one of them. I also celebrate this special day, being an aboriginal. I am very pleased, Mr. Speaker, when I have to travel to other communities to attend meetings, there are always people who can speak my language and I can use my language through interpreters during these meetings.

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation) I would like to speak on behalf of the aboriginal languages issue today. Today, whoever is speaking their own language, it is their day to celebrate. I do not think we should be thinking about our languages only today. I think we should be thinking about them every day. When I speak to elders, they say "Why do the younger people not speak aboriginal languages very well?" They do not speak to the elders, that is why. A few of the elders also express that they would like to speak to the young people, but they do not get a chance to do that. They have lived a long time.

The young students who are taught in school today are taught well, but they are taught mostly in English. Last year, there

were some young students, about 10 years old, who said they would like to speak Slavey, but they do not know how. They say they are taught the language in school, but they are limited. They express the fact that they should be taught more, and I agree. Today, when we speak aboriginal languages, it is recognized by the territorial government. There are many languages being interpreted for us today, and I feel thankful for people who are interpreting for me. Thank you.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Allooloo.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am happy that we have a special day for celebrating aboriginal languages. I know there are many people in the NWT who work very hard to preserve our languages and use them in schools, offices, homes and in the other communities. I would like to thank all these people for all the hard work they are doing. I also envy those people who speak the Dene languages. I want to thank my colleagues for supporting aboriginal languages in this Legislature. I think in all of North America, we are the only people who recognize aboriginal languages. (Translation ends)

I learned the languages from my parents, and from my brothers and sisters. I thank them for that. I will always remember what they have taught me and I am proud of it. I would urge all the people who are not able to speak Inuktitut, who are of Inuit descent, to learn the language. It is so rich, Mr. Speaker. When you lose your language, you lose part of your culture. When I speak my language, I know the right word to describe exactly what I mean. For example, if I say to an Inuktitut speaking person, "this is my cousin," that person knows exactly which part of my family he or she belongs to, whether it is my father's side or my mother's side, by saying one word.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday Mr. John Pollard asked me "What is the word for water in Inuktitut?" So, I gave him a list of things describing salt water, fresh water, water on top of the ice, lake water, drinking water, river water and he was amazed at the different words we use in our language. I cannot always explain myself so well in English. I am always trying to find words which express exactly the same thing as Inuktitut words, but many times they do not exist. Mr. Speaker, we speak different languages, we think of things in a different way...

Mr. Allooloo, your allotted time as elapsed. Thank you, Mr. Allooloo. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ningark.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When we ask questions, sometimes we ask them in our language. I do not always have much to say, however, I wanted to stand using my dialect in Natilikmiot. Being aboriginal languages day, I wish to express my appreciation to Natilikmiot people who have been preserving their dialect and their language. I appreciate those hard working people in the government and the government in Ottawa, as we try and preserve our native language. I appreciate the funding they give to us for preserving our language. MLAs appreciate this day, recognizing that it is an aboriginal languages day. Thank you very much, my colleagues, and Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson.

(Translation) I am sorry, but I will be speaking in English. (Translation ends) Two days ago, CBC Iqaluit interviewed Dr. William Fitzhugh, a respected archaeologist with the Smithsonian Institute in Washington. Dr. Fitzhugh, who has worked extensively throughout the circumpolar world on archaeological digs, talked about his extensive work in recent years in Frobisher Bay seeking artifacts and archaeological evidence about the voyages of Martin Frobisher to Frobisher Bay in the late 1500s, and the effects of those visits including influences of Elizabethan technology on the local Inuit at the time. A book on this fascinating work will soon be released. In the interview, Dr. Fitzhugh pointed out the urgency of his work since the land and hundreds of archaeological sites, and the outer part of Frobisher Bay are rapidly sinking into the sea. Dr. Fitzhugh expressed his strong concern that there must be proper local facilities to secure and preserve these valuable artifacts. Unless local storage is available in local museums, Dr. Fitzhugh expressed his concern that communities nearby may no longer support archaeological research for fear that the artifacts will be taken far away because of the conditions required for their safe storage, and will not be available to be seen in nearby communities. He also noted that he is working with young Inuit on the digs to encourage them to study archaeology in the Arctic but it would be discouraging to those students if there are no local facilities to display the results of their works, and the artifacts must be stored far away from the Inuit homeland. Dr. Fitzhugh also noted that these artifacts, if they are available locally, are a valuable resource for schools to celebrate cultural heritage and also as a very significant tourist attraction. He expressed his opinion that a new Nunavut territory must offer increased education opportunities and facilities to respect, store and display the heritage of its people. Qujannamiik, Mr. Speaker.

Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over the past few weeks I have frequently raised the issue of designation of the River Ridge facility in Fort Smith as an institution for the handling of young offenders sentenced to terms of open custody, as well as those young offenders sentenced to terms of closed or secure custody. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Justice and I have engaged, at times, I believe to be a vigorous debate on this issue. However, Mr. Speaker, neither of us are lawyers. Unfortunately, the debate on this issue seems to have focused around legal definitions, names of statutes and other technical legal issues.

Mr. Speaker, I find this unfortunate because it has obscured the real issue, which I suggest is, how will the staff and officials at the River Ridge facility treat a young offender, who is being sentenced to an institution for the first time for what may be a relatively minor offence, differently from a young offender who has repeatedly been in and out of institutions and has been convicted of a sufficiently serious crime to warrant the imposition by the courts of a term of secure custody. Mr. Speaker, the courts impose different types of custodial sentences for a reason. I am not a legal expert but it seems to me that offenders sentenced to a different type of sentences should be treated differently.

The Young Offenders Act, under section 24(1) recognizes the serious nature of secure custody by prohibiting the courts from imposing secure custody unless certain criteria are met. Given the planned designation of the River Ridge facility, as both open and secure custody, I want to be sure that the institution has developed a plan which will deal appropriately in keeping with the letter and the spirit of the Young Offenders Act, with these two different types of young offenders.

Mr. Speaker, I will continue to pursue the issue with the Minister and I sincerely hope we will be able to debate this issue on its merits and avoid getting tangled up in a debate over legal terminology. Thank you.

Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Dent on March 26, 1993, to the Honourable Don Morin, who is presently travelling, regarding the tendering practices of municipalities.

When the Department of Government Services and Public Works directly purchases mobile equipment for the hamlets, the department follows standard specifications, tenders the purchases and inspects the units to ensure they meet specifications.

In some cases, MACA has devolved the purchase of mobile equipment to the hamlets. In those cases, the department provides its standard specifications to MACA for use by the hamlet. The hamlets then tender the purchases, with the assistance of MACA staff, and carry out their own inspections. Government Services and Public Works does not conduct follow-up inspections, except when requested by MACA or a hamlet.

Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Gargan on March 26, 1993, to the Honourable Don Morin, Minister of Government Services and Public Works, regarding lease arrangements for social worker on the Hay River Reserve.

The department has consulted with Dene Gha Holdings Corporation at the Hay River Reserve on this potential lease.

It is anticipated that the arrangements can be completed by May 1, 1993.

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very grateful for the government's early commitment to rebuild the Apex school and also to renovate an existing building to serve as a temporary school. However, the people of Apex and the students at Nanook School were concerned to learn that the new school might not include a gym. Their old school had a gym. I would like to ask the Minister of Education, who I believe has heard their prayers and petitions, whether the Cabinet has had a chance to consider the issue of a gym for the Apex school. Thank you.

Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure if we have heard all their calls and all their pleas but we have heard the most important one and that is the request of the honourable Member and the request from the school board. My Cabinet colleagues have understood the need to respond as positively as we can. The Cabinet and Financial Management Board have approved the addition of a small gymnasium for the Apex school.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Justice. Earlier in my Member's statement I referred to the tabled document related to the 1992 master plan for corrections. Can the Minister please advise us as to the status of this report?

Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. What time frame is the Minister looking at in developing a strategic plan?

Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. The Minister made a commitment to provide us with the audit on the 1992 exposition in Seville, before we go home at the end of this session. I would like to ask him what is the status of that audit?

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, I will be tabling those documents today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Justice. The Minister of Justice has indicated that the River Ridge facility for young offenders located in Fort Smith has been designated as a triple designation facility. Mr. Speaker, the Young Offenders Act states no young person shall be committed to secure custody unless certain specified criteria are met. For example, the offence is one for which an adult could receive a jail sentence for greater than five years. Given that the act makes a clear distinction between the two types of offenders, can the Minister advise me as to what steps have been taken to date to review or modify current security procedures so as to allow the institution to handle both types of offenders? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Besides sending the staff out to another institution, I would like to ask the Minister again, what steps have been taken, to date, to review or modify current security procedures to allow the institution to handle both types of offenders? What procedures and steps have been taken? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess that is my concern. As the Minister indicated, there are cell doors in the River Ridge facility and they will remain unlocked, but the cell concept is still there for young offenders who are sentenced to open custody. It really bothers me to think a young offender would be in that type of environment. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister with regard to the section of the Young Offenders Act that specifically prohibits the transfer of young offenders who have been committed to open custody to a place of closed custody. Can the Minister indicate, to the House, what specific plans have been adopted by the department to ensure the intent of this particular section

of the act is not breached, besides just leaving the cell doors open? Thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5, oral questions. Your final supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a final supplementary to the Minister. The Minister went basically all around my question and I listened, with interest, to see if I would get an answer and I did not get an answer so I find that I am in a position to ask this again. I would like to ask the Minister, can he indicate what specific plans have been adopted by the department to ensure the intent of the section of the Young Offenders Act is not breached? Thank you.

I have said a number of times, when a question is posed to a Minister the Minister is not compelled under our rules to answer that question. I will put the question to the Minister, Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Zoe.

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, it has taken longer than we anticipated. I think it is going to take another two weeks because it involves some of the other departments. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Zoe.

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, dealing with the problem which the Member raises would have been a piecemeal approach to some of the other problems which we see need addressing in the Department of Finance and other departments. It was decided to encompass all the changes at the same time, Mr. Speaker. That is how it involves other departments. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe.

If Members have a question, there should be a preamble before the question, not after. Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, there were some changes we felt needed to be done. So, addressing the changes we felt were required along with the changes suggested by the Auditor General's report made it a larger

task. As I said, Mr. Speaker, we are only a couple of weeks behind with it. It is better to do one job and do it properly than to do it piecemeal. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe.

That is two questions. Mr. Zoe, would you like to ask one question, please? Mr. Zoe. You asked two questions. Would you like to ask one?

Mr. Pollard.

Yes, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, and the Science Institute. Since the decision was made to reorganize the Science Institute and to make it into something different than what it was, could the Minister tell me if a study was done on the institute to see whether it was performing the job which it was asked to do?

Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to make some clarifications to the remarks the honourable Member has made. Firstly, to correct the record, a decision has already been made to move the Science Institute and the staff to the regions. That decision has been made. The whole matter of re-assessing the relationship of the Science Institute and Arctic College in terms of research, program delivery and reorganized administration is the result of a suggestion and recommendation of myself since I became the Minister. There has been some concern expressed by the chairman of the Science Institute board about the matter of disseminating and decentralizing the Science Institute as it now exists. If the organization is disseminated, what would be the results in terms of administration? Obviously, we would have to look at administrative services, either in one location, three locations or two locations. That was not clear in the decision.

Secondly, the matter of a study of whether they were performing the duties, that was to be part of the review. If the honourable Member is not aware, I asked Arctic College, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs and the Science Institute to sit down on a working committee to come up with a solution. Since the board has met, some two weeks ago, they have indicated that they do not want to work to re-assess the working of the Science Institute, the relationship they could have with Arctic College or the future relationship that they would have in the Northwest Territories to other organizations. The Science Institute board and the staff are the ones who have refused to sit down to assess the workings of their own organization and the relationship they might have to any other organization in the future.

That is, in fact, the way the whole thing is borne out. I have still asked Arctic College and the department to pursue what might be options.

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

I will re-phrase my original question. In the proposals for giving the Science Institute a new kind of mandate, does this mean that the mandate which the Science Institute has now will not be the same as the mandate it will have when it is amalgamated, affiliated or joined with the Arctic College system?

Mr. Nerysoo.

Mr. Speaker, so as to be very clear to the honourable Member, the whole nature of the working group was to look into the relationship. The Science Institute board and the staff do not want to participate on that particular working committee. It is very hard to suggest to the honourable Member that this Science Institute board and this Science Institute staff are prepared to even consider the options. Arctic College staff and the staff of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs are the ones who want to review this whole thing. It may be that the restructuring completely retains the structure the way it is. What is clear, from my perspective, is there is a need for Arctic College to consider the relationship it would have with the Science Institute in the development of new science technology programs and improving the ability of Arctic College in the area of research for the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

I appreciate that there are all kinds of different opinions. The board obviously has one significant opinion. The most significant opinion is the opinion of the Minister who may have the responsibility. Does the Minister intend to give the Science Institute a new mandate to do different work, something different to what it does right now?

Mr. Nerysoo.

Mr. Speaker, again, very clearly I do not know what mandate they should have. That is the nature of the review which was to take place. If I am going to ask Arctic College to assume responsibility in the area of research and science technology programming, then my question is, what is the role of the Science Institute of the Northwest Territories? It is important that we try to figure out the relationship. If we do not figure out that relationship then what is the nature of two colleges in the Northwest Territories, two Science Institutes of the Northwest Territories with no relationship at all? Even the Special Committee on Education in 1981 came back with a recommendation of, in fact, trying to put together that relationship. It is only now occurring, some 12 years later. We are trying to respond to an initiative and, in fact, a recommendation that was made.

I think there is a change in the relationship. The honourable Member should realize the Science Institute only advises on matters of research. They do not, and have not, participated in actual research. They have contracted other organizations to do the research work. It is my view that surely we can recognize the need to utilize the institutions of the Northwest Territories to assume responsibility in that area. I do not know in the end what the solution is going to be. That is why I have asked this working group to sit down and advise me. I need the advice of people who have the expertise in this area. They have, in fact, refused to participate in advising me.

Final supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Mr. Speaker, a significant party to the solution of this problem does not want to participate. How does he propose to resolve the issue?

Mr. Nerysoo.

Mr. Speaker, I will re-assess the situation and appropriately deal with those individuals who are not involved in participating in the review process. I can only try to encourage the individuals. What the Member has to understand is that the Science Institute board has even made a decision that they want to incorporate themselves as an independent body of government. They have undertaken a process, of which I was not involved nor consulted, particularly since this government spends a great deal of money on setting up the board, to incorporate themselves as an independent body with no relationship whatsoever to this Assembly and basically to this government.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Government Leader. Mr. Speaker, we know that the present Cabinet has been fortified and rejuvenated with new blood in recent months and new Members, who appear to have been assigned to fill the vacancies which arose, perhaps not so much according to their particular skills and experience, in looking at the total group. It has been a tradition in recent years for Cabinet shuffles to be considered immediately after a budget session. So, my question to the Government Leader is, Mr. Speaker, now that the budget session is almost over, is she considering shuffling her Cabinet? Thank you.

Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, I will take that as notice. Thank you.

The question has been taken as notice.

Supplementary.

The question has been taken as notice, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Lewis.

My question, Mr. Speaker, is to the Minister of Finance regarding the insidious payroll tax. Since this tax was designed, at least the main spirit of it, to tax between and 4,000 and 5,000 non-unionized workers that fly in and out, what services do these people get from the Government of the Northwest Territories?

Good question.

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, the tax system is not necessarily based on what you receive, it is collective of people who recognize that governments have to operate, programs have to be delivered and the taxation system does not normally respect any particular group or individual for any particular purpose, Mr. Speaker. The mere fact that people are working in the Northwest Territories displacing someone else from the Northwest Territories from earning that pay cheque, in my opinion, would be good enough reason. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

What evidence does the Minister have that these 4,000 people are replacing willing workers to take their jobs in the Northwest Territories?