I do not have much to say, Mr. Chairman, but I am taking a lesson from those people who spend a great deal of time listening. I have a few comments to make. When you build a transportation system you have to be fairly sure what your objective is, what it is you are trying to do. I hear all kinds of talk about what we should do, and usually if you are going to spend millions and millions of dollars, you had better have a proper handle on what kind of investment you are making and for what purpose.

We know, for example, the railway which went all the way up to Churchill was built because they were going to ship all kinds of wheat from the prairies to Europe. They were able to justify the cost of the railway by looking at the difference in shipping it by rail to the coast before the St. Lawrence seaway was built, which was very expensive. They figured, economically, that made sense. We have a railway built in the west because there was a huge deposit in Pine Point. They looked at the economics of that, the life of the deposit and figured out to the dollar what the economics of it would be.

So, I hear all kinds of proposals about developing infrastructure as if it is just a good idea. We have to have it because it is good to have infrastructure. However, you have to have a good handle on what that is going to do, what is the benefit of it. You cannot just have a dream or a vision unless you have some facts and figures to deal with. I would be very concerned if we continue to look at projects without really having a proper handle on what we are getting into and something which we can justify to the public on the basis of real knowledge of what we know.

I have a few questions. In the early 1970s there was great talk about the Mackenzie Valley. We could have a road all the way up the Mackenzie. I remember our MP from Fort McPherson was very interested in a railroad. I think it was an NDP position, rather than his own personal position.

I would like to ask the Minister, the railroad which we have right now, there is only a small portion of it in the territories, what use is made of that small bit of steel that comes through Alberta as far as Hay River? What use is made of that railroad right now?