Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, early in the exposition I sent over Kit Spence. I did not go myself, I sent Kit Spence over because he was the most familiar with the exposition, had been with it almost from day one and he went over and changed a number of things. Later on we sent over another person from our finance department at ED&T to give some more assistance. After that we sent Mr. Spence back again towards the end of the exposition to help with the wind up. So, there were some actions taken during the course of the fair.

You can see on page nine of 20 you can see some of the things that were done. There were things done that tried to account for how much was sold and how much money was taken in. I could read from that page if you want, Mr. Chairman. The sales were recorded into cash registers provided by Expo. There were four registers, one on the second floor restaurant, two in the retail boutique and one on the main floor kiosk. The rule was that only one employee was supposed to operate a cash register during a shift. At the end of any shift a cashier prepared a reconciliation. That is a record. This reconciliation ensured that recorded sales agreed to cash and credit card sales collected. I do admit that from time to time there were some shortages, Mr. Chairman. The cash, cash register tape and the completed reconciliation form were given to the finance officer. There was another procedure that was followed. The finance officer verified the reconciliation form and recounted the cash receipt. So, there were some controls over there. Obviously they did not please the Comptroller General all the time, but there was an attempt made to make sure that everything was accounted for. Maybe they did not do it perfectly but there was a system in place, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Thank you. In other words, daily shelf records were kept. Mr. Zoe.

Thank you. Are there any further general comments? Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was not going to comment but I take exceptions to some of the remarks that were made. First of all, the comment which the Minister made that we did not let the people of the north down and we saved face, I do not agree. I believe that we did let the people of the north down. Because we took $4.2 million that we could have saved for other programs, we could have increased the social assistance budget, but we denied the people of the north that. We went into a venture and we lost our shirt.

The problem I have with the whole issue is that we have an internal document, Expo system adequacy report summary, from the office of the Comptroller General dated March 26 and an evaluation of the financial operation of Expo '92 revolving fund. The office of the Comptroller General did an evaluation and they basically said that the examination indicates that there were significant system weaknesses. There were indications that management was not receiving meaningful management information. Further through the report it tells you all of the weaknesses and the strengths. When you look at this particular report there is more weaknesses pointed out than there were strengths. There is no doubt that many things were wrong. It is true that even in the report it says that there were days when cash shortages approached 10,000 peseta, $120 Canadian. The office of the Comptroller General is under the Minister of Finance, the Minister of Finance is the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. Is he saying that the office of the Comptroller General did not do a thorough enough job of doing a proper review on the evaluation of the financial operation of Expo '92 revolving fund, or is he saying that the Comptroller General did too thorough of a job, and that the Comptroller General should not have detected these type of deficiencies. I have a problem with the same Minister, he has one department which says these were the wrong things done, under the Financial Assistance Act these were not adhered to. Then as the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism he has to say, the staff did not steal, the staff was doing an adequate job, we did not let the people of the north down, we saved face. It is all right if we lost $4.2 million. That is why I take exception to some of the remarks made.

It states in the report, Mr. Chairman, that there is no inventory control system, that they had shortages, they had the duties which existed, they were inadequately segregated, they had weaknesses in every different area. They basically said that the system that was to be established must ensure that all public money is collected and accounted for, all public property is properly controlled, all disbursements are properly authorized. However, when you go through the total report, it says there was no inventory control systems in place, management reports were not prepared to assist in monitoring and controlling inventory. There was no perpetual inventory records nor was there a controllable asset system. There were many things wrong. The overall conclusion on the very last page, it says that we cannot determine whether or not all public monies were properly collected as there were no internal controls to ensure completeness of revenue. In our opinion, public property was not properly controlled because there was not an adequate inventory control system in place. All disbursements were not properly authorized. Therefore, it was there opinion that all parts of section 12(2)c of the Financial Administration Act were not complied with.

It is the Minister's own staff that looks after the financial part of this government's public purse who pointed out these deficiencies. How can the Minister come to us and the public, get as passionate as he did, and say that we did not let the people of the north down. I was not going to bring any of these points up because I felt that Expo '92 is lesson to be learned, we lost the money, the issue is dead. At the same time, I am sure this government learned a lesson. I do not appreciate when we want to discuss something and they get so defensive in respect to saying we did what we did, it is all right. What we were saying when we brought this document into committee of the whole is that it was not all right the way in which it was done.

I think this is where some Members had a problem with the Minister of Finance being Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. When you have a problem of saying lets go into venture, you are going be willing to take a risk as Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, we took the risk, he lost on the risk, but yet, at the same time, having to watch the money spent. Mr. Chairman, I wanted to make a few comments that the evaluation of the financial operations of Expo '92 revolving fund done by the office of the Comptroller General is very critical towards the Department of Finance. It would be interesting to note what the remarks of the Auditor General would be. I would suggest that the only way to deal with this, to conclude this report, is to request that the Standing Committee on Public Accounts refer it to the Auditor General's office.

It is unfortunate that we received this report so late. It was only tabled two days ago. It is unfortunate that we could not get the information earlier. I recognize that it was tabled two days ago and it was completed last Friday, a week ago. Mr. Chairman, I believe that by losing $4.2 million we have to admit that we did let the people of the north down. We deprived them of many programs which we could have given them for that $4.2 million. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, just a couple of points. I am going to read from page ten of 20, just to get this thing in context. There were days when cash shortages or underage approached 10,000 peseta ($120 Canadian). In the second line Aurorales incurred a net overage of 105,114 peseta ($1,236.63 Canadian). When you read the one line that says there were shortages some days of $120, overall, Mr. Chairman, there were overages of $1,236.63. Mr. Chairman, I am not saying that the Comptroller General was lax in doing his job or that he was over zealous. Accountants, people in similar situations to the Comptroller General's office operate under the FAA, and I respect that. As Minister of Finance I must uphold the Financial Administration Act.

All of the people who worked over there were young people from the Northwest Territories. I did not want to see them being thought of as perhaps absconding, and the disappearance of inventory being blamed upon them. Because it was not their fault. We were, as I have said before, working with a system that was put in place by the Spanish authorities. It did not quite fit, obviously, the Financial Administration Act of the Northwest Territories and we could not derive enough from that system to meet all the requirements that are required when a government is spending money. Mr. Chairman, when I say we did not let the people of the Northwest Territories down, I wanted people to know that the Northwest Territories was well represented by the people that were there, they were held in high esteem and that I only received one complaint throughout all of the people who went through there. I received a whole lot of compliments from people who had gone through there and said that it was enlightening, it was pleasing and that they had a good time there. That was the way that I was suggesting that the exposition did not let the people of the Northwest Territories down. I was saying that it gave people a good view of the Northwest Territories and that they were satisfied with their visit to the pavilion and to the restaurant. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Qujannamiik. Are there any further general comments? Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have seen the Minister, over the last hour or so, change from being the cool, calculated, calm, collected Minister of Finance. We all expect finance people to be like that. They are very much controlled people. When we get into the more warm blooded business of dealing with economic development, especially when you are talking about development that takes place in exotic places such as Seville, then suddenly, another personality emerges, which I find very refreshing. I did not realize Mr. Pollard was capable of so much passion. I congratulate him for that. There is hope.

In making these comments, Mr. Chairman, I would like to commend the government, although it was much too late to have a proper debate and discussion on this, it is the kind of thing which can happen in our form of government. These are the kinds of things which governments do everything to hide. Whenever they do something wrong you find a thousand ways of hiding it. That is one of the weaknesses of provincial systems as they exist right now. Is that you do something wrong and then you hide it because you do not want your government to look bad, or your party to look bad and you never learn from your mistakes. They just keep on doing it because the public does not know half of the time with regard to the mess that is going on around them. I feel very good that this review was done in a very professional fashion and it showed us the problems that all armies have when they have to fight wars in distant places, when they are cut off from their headquarters and the supply lines, they are dealing in a foreign country with foreign languages. It is very difficult. Things such as a different financial system and trying to mix them, all those kinds of things we could have predicted. However, we did not do that. We went ahead because we are young, bold and enthusiastic and felt that we could conquer the world. We really did not do it.

I also agree with Mr. Pollard's comments about the young people. I know many of them who went there. I am sure that they represented the people of the Northwest Territories very well. After all, all we ran there was a restaurant and a gift place. We were not running a big pavilion. We had a small part to play. There were not too many things, in sense, that could go wrong because we were not mounting a big exposition of our own. We were performing two very straightforward functions. If you look at it dispassionately, it was not that complicated. Because of the conditions in which we had to operate in, we obviously found ourselves coming up short in the way that has been very dramatically given to us in these reports.

I think it probably will not serve much purpose in continuing with this discussion at any great length this evening. I feel good about having this kind of information in an open forum where we admit our mistakes and also show some indication and willingness that we are going to learn from it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Are there any general comments? Is the committee agreed that Tabled Document 133-12(3), is concluded, and Tabled Document 134-12(3), is concluded. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. I would like to thank the Minister and his witness for appearing before the committee. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have another very important document, Mr. Chairman, it is Minister's Statement 88-12(3), Changes to Student Financial Assistance Program,

which the Minister was kind enough to go back in the order paper so that we could have the benefit of the copy. I would like to deal with this.

Thank you. Is the committee agreed that we deal with Minister's Statement 88-12(3), Changes to Student Financial Assistance Program. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Are there any general comments? Mr. Lewis.

General Comments

Thank you. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I could have the indulgence of the committee to invite an additional witness, I have a general idea of all of the changes which are going to occur. To give you more specific details, I would ask if I could have the assistance of Mr. Pilon at the witness table. I could then begin with some of the more specific details. I can give you the changes which are occurring but specifically in comparison to what is occurring, I would like to have Mr. Pilon appear.

Is the committee agreed that the Minister can bring in a witness. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witness.

For the record, Mr. Minister, would you please introduce your witness. Mr. Minister.