This is page numbers 365 - 396 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Antoine, Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Arvaluk, Mr. Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Hon. Jeannie Marie-Jewell, Hon. Rebecca Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Mr. Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Patterson, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 365

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Good afternoon. Welcome back, Mr. Lewis. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Zero Tolerance Towards Violence
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 365

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, this Legislative Assembly took a very big and a very important step when it adopted a policy of zero tolerance towards violence. People of the Northwest Territories are now looking to us to provide such leadership. They want more than words or policies. They want to see concrete action.

Family violence is a very real problem in the Northwest Territories, one we must deal with as a priority in any strategy towards zero tolerance towards violence. Key in dealing with this problem are the workers in the 12 family violence prevention projects across the Northwest Territories. About 94 full and part-time staff are employed in these projects and in 1993 they offered shelter and support services to 2,541 people.

Madam Speaker, given the importance of the work of family violence workers and the stress of the job, it would reasonable to assume that these workers would be very well paid. Sadly, this is not the case. Many of these dedicated individuals are earning as little as half of what comparable staff in government positions earn. On top of that, few have any housing or settlement allowances.

Madam Speaker, I understand that there has been no increase in funding for agencies such as the women's shelter in Yellowknife, the Alison McAteer House, since the program started in 1986-87. This means that, in order to allow for inflationary staff increments, just to keep salaries comparable to the insufficient level they've started at, cuts have had to be made to programs.

In other centres across the territories, shelters are having trouble meeting their rent obligations or purchasing groceries. If stopping violence in our communities is truly a priority, we must ensure front-line workers are compensated in a way which is consistent with their skills and the important service they bring to communities. We need continuity and workers who are committed to working against violence, rather than being tempted to move on to better paying government jobs.

Madam Speaker, I urge the government and the Minister of Health and Social Services to find a way to address this salary and benefits concern as part of the government's response to the family violence problem. In March, representatives from every family violence prevention project will be meeting in Yellowknife. I hope before then, Madam Speaker, the concern about wages for these workers will be dealt with...

Zero Tolerance Towards Violence
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 365

An Hon. Member

Hear, hear.

Zero Tolerance Towards Violence
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

So these workers will be able to focus their energies on strategies for dealing with family violence...

Zero Tolerance Towards Violence
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Sorry, your time is up.

Zero Tolerance Towards Violence
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Madam Speaker, I request unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Zero Tolerance Towards Violence
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Dent.

Zero Tolerance Towards Violence
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you, honourable Members. As I was saying, Madam Speaker, I hope that before the meetings in March the concern about wages for these workers will be dealt with so that they will be able to focus their energies on strategies for dealing with family violence, rather than how to retain staff at low wages. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Zero Tolerance Towards Violence
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Cdsc's First Constitutional Conference
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 365

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I rise today in my capacity as chairman of the Constitutional Development Steering Committee to provide an update to this House on constitutional development for the new western territory. The acronym for the Constitutional Development Steering Committee is CDSC. I will be using that quite a bit.

CDSC members have agreed to postpone the first constitutional conference by two months, holding the conference in Yellowknife on January 19 to 22, 1995, instead of in late November. That will allow for better preparation for community information meetings and briefing of participants who will attend the conference. As many of you will have heard, the CDSC is honoured that the Right Honourable Joe Clark has agreed to chair the conference. Northern leaders who saw Mr. Clark in action during the Charlottetown accord talks, came to respect his ability to quickly grasp and fairly represent the divergent views, both aboriginal and non-aboriginal around the table.

He will bring great skill to the process of developing a consensus on a new form of government for a new western territory. The CDSC is now well on its way with planning and preparation for the conference. Approximately 150 leaders and public participants will discuss the themes and issues that have emerged from the public consultation to date and from further research.

They will compare viewpoints and see where there is common ground, where there are differences and where there is more work to be done. Their major task will be to make recommendations on principles and options for a new constitution and structure of government, and on how the remaining stages of the constitutional process should be completed.

I expect to announce the formula for selecting conference participants by the end of this month. A significant portion must be from the general public, so there is public ownership and involvement in the process. Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to complete my statement.

Cdsc's First Constitutional Conference
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Koe.

Cdsc's First Constitutional Conference
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. There must also be balanced representation of men and women, aboriginal and non-aboriginal people and involvement of youth and elders. In the next few weeks, the CDSC will conduct a round of public information meetings in 34 communities. At these meetings, CDSC members will provide information about the constitutional development process, the purpose of the first constitutional conference and the themes and issues that will be discussed.

We want people to understand the incredible opportunity we have to create a new system of government, which truly reflects the needs and aspirations of all our people. I encourage the western Members of this House to help provide a territory-wide perspective by attending as many of the public information meetings as possible, not just in your own constituencies, but in other regions as well. Mahsi cho. Qujannamiik.

---Applause

Cdsc's First Constitutional Conference
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 366

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Aivilik, Mr. Arvaluk.

Federal Funding Cuts To Language Programs
Item 3: Members' Statements

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

(Translation) I am deeply concerned about the impending cuts to our language programs through our funding agreements with the federal government. I am very disappointed that this government has not been able to

convince the federal government that more money is needed in this area, not less.

What bothers me also is the fact that the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment appears to be trying to shift part of the responsibility of the cuts to the NWT Languages Commission. I quote from his remarks to the Keewatin Divisional Board of Education last September, "A lot of it came as a result of criticism from our Languages Commissioner, who appeared before the Assembly and said we were not spending our money."

Several questions come to mind about this whole issue. For example, if, as the Minister says, the federal government used the Languages Commissioner's report to argue for cut; what was happening to the annual accounting of languages money that was supposed to be submitted to the federal government? If this accounting occurred, wouldn't the federal government already have been aware that some funds were being lapsed?

If it is the position of this government...Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to proceed with my statement.

Federal Funding Cuts To Language Programs
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Arvaluk.

Federal Funding Cuts To Language Programs
Item 3: Members' Statements

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you, Members. If it is the position of this government that the office that is supposed to protect language rights and services is actually negatively affecting it, what further action are they considering?

As I said before, Madam Speaker, I am worried about our language funding. I hope that the previous funding levels may, at some point, be restored. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Federal Funding Cuts To Language Programs
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 366

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. It is with great pleasure I rise in the House today to thank the Department of Transportation and Minister John Todd for their accomplishments, on behalf of my constituents in Nahendeh.

On June 11th, the communities of Fort Simpson and Wrigley celebrated the ribbon-cutting ceremony at both the ferry at Ndulee crossing and the opening of the longest bridge in the Northwest Territories over Willowlake River.

An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

The ferry operation is a joint venture run by the Liidli Koe First Nation of Fort Simpson and the Pehdzeh Ki First Nation of Wrigley on behalf of the territorial Department of Transportation. It was with great pleasure that myself, Chief Gabe Hardisty of Wrigley, Chief Herb Norwegian of Fort Simpson and I am sure the Minister of Transportation, the Honourable John Todd, watched as elders Ed Hardisty of Wrigley and Batiste Salteaux of Fort Simpson cut the ribbon to

officially signify the start of the ferry operation across the Deh Cho, also known as the Mackenzie River.

Later that same day, Madam Speaker, we travelled to the new bridge over Willowlake River and watched as George Boots, the elder from Willowlake River representing the elders, and Nicole Hardisty, representing the youth, cut the ribbon to officially open the bridge to traffic.

Later that night, we had the pleasure of going to Wrigley for the pleasure of feasting and dancing well into the night to celebrate the new link to the rest of Deh Cho for the residents of Wrigley. I would like to thank the community for their fantastic hospitality.

I don't see the completion of this highway to Wrigley, Madam Speaker, as the end of the highway. In fact, I see it as a continuation of a highway up the Mackenzie River as far as Inuvik, perhaps. Even if we have to do it a few kilometres a year, that would be appreciated.

I think, Madam Speaker, that the elder, George Boots, expressed the sentiments of the people quite well during the ceremony at the bridge opening when he said, "I thank the government for building this highway. I thank the Creator. I ask him to look after everyone who travels this road. We have to pray to the Creator, respect the Creator, respect this road and we have to respect the river." Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Tununirmiut Hotel In Iqaluit
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 367

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. More good news from Iqaluit today.

---Laughter

---Applause

Madam Speaker, this being National Co-op Week, I wish to rise to congratulate the Toonoonik Sahoonik Co-op of Pond Inlet on their acquisition of a hotel in Iqaluit, formerly the Bayshore Hotel, which is now known as the Tununirmiut Hotel. I'm very pleased that this hotel is now owned in the north by a co-op which already opened a retail store in Iqaluit earlier last year.

The new owners have invested in renovations and improvements in service and the new hotel has already proved to be a popular family eating and meeting place. I understand that the co-op has plans to expand this facility in the future and I was very pleased to learn that they're open to some equity of participation by a new and rejuvenated Iqaluit co-op, which I would like to see formed.

I was also very pleased to have attended the official opening of this new venture earlier this year, along with my colleague, Mr. Titus Allooloo, MLA for Amittuq, and Mr. James Atagotak, chair of the board, and certain directors.

Madam Speaker, this is the kind of mutually-beneficial cooperation of which we are proud in the Baffin. I am delighted that the co-op movement and particularly this very progressive co-op from Pond Inlet has such a strong presence in my constituency. Qujannamiik.

---Applause

Tununirmiut Hotel In Iqaluit
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Good news from Yellowknife as well.

Some Hon. Members

Yea.

---Applause

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Good news for the whole Northwest Territories, as a matter of fact. Madam Speaker, last Friday, Madam Premier made an announcement that I would like to respond to. I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate Tony Chang, a businessman from the city of Yellowknife, on his new appointment as chairman of the board of management for the Stanton Territorial Hospital. I would like to wish him and his board every success and support in the years to come.

Madam Speaker, we are well aware of all of the health issues that dominate this House and dominate the interests of the people of the Northwest Territories. We are certainly not immune to them here at Stanton. There are going to be big challenges in the coming years for the board and the new chairman, given the changing times, fiscal restraint, public expectation for service, new technologies, et cetera.

I know Mr. Chang is an experienced businessman and a community-minded individual. He has been in the north for a long time and the experiences he has will make him well-suited for the position. That said, Madam Speaker, I would also like to take the opportunity to say thank you to the outgoing chairman, Mr. Yamkowy for his years of dedicated service to the Board of Management and the people the territorial hospital serves across the north. I think his contribution and commitment certainly will have an impact on us for quite some time, and will be reflected in the operation of the hospital and health services for the people of the north for some time to come.

So, to both, congratulations. Thank you.

---Applause

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

Music Festival In Sanikiluaq
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise today to express my appreciation and gratitude. Madam

Speaker, last spring in Sanikiluaq in my constituency, there was a music festival. Quite a few people came in from other communities from Nunavut. It was even better when the boat came in. Madam Speaker, such festivals can help a lot in our lives. Because of that, I am grateful and appreciate the people who attended the festival. The Ministers were able to put money together to fund it.

To the people who were at the festival, and the people who were not there, I would like to express my appreciation and my gratitude. Thank you.

---Applause

Music Festival In Sanikiluaq
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I, today, join others in wanting to congratulate the participants in the recent municipal election in Yellowknife. I would like to congratulate the mayor-elect, Dave Lovell, who was born and bred in Yellowknife. He will bring to bear, I think, a very practical point of view as the new mayor.

To the other mayoralty candidates who lost, I again offer my congratulations for a very strong race this year. They all brought their ideas to the table. Unfortunately, in politics only one of the six could win. But all of them deserve a lot of credit for the quality of the campaign.

To the candidates for alderman, to Blake Lyons, Trevor Kasteel, Jo MacQuarrie, John Dalton, Vi Beck, Ruth Spence, Dick Peplow and Merlyn Williams, my congratulations. Again, it was a huge field; 24 people ran. The new council is a good mix of experience and of newcomers. I think seven of the eight are long-term northerners.

I would like to give special recognition to Trevor Kasteel who is the youngest candidate -- 25 years old. He came second in the polls. I worked with his father. His father was a very strong city councillor back in the late 1970s and early 1980s. He was deputy mayor when I was mayor of Yellowknife. I know if Trevor's father was here, he would be very, very proud of his son.

Again, to the candidates who ran and lost, I think they've made the democratic process work. A lot of great ideas came out of the campaign. I know a lot of the people who didn't win this year will run again, and I'm sure, will have their chance to serve.

I'd like to conclude, Madam Speaker, with a thank you to Mayor McMahon and to the outgoing city council. Mayor McMahon served three terms, and was a strong mayor of the city of Yellowknife. I think although I didn't always agree with what she did, the fact is the voters of Yellowknife voted her in for three terms...

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Sorry, Mr. Ballantyne.

---Applause

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I request unanimous consent to get my last statement on the record.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue with his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Continue, Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to conclude with a vote of gratitude to Mayor McMahon. She served in a very, very difficult position for many years. She was elected as mayor three times. I think only one other mayor in history who was elected more than that was Fred Henne. So she goes down in history as our second-most elected mayor.

An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)

---Laughter

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I have a memory lapse after that. So, Madam Speaker, to the former mayor and to the former council, our thank you. Being mayor or being a city councillor are two of the toughest jobs in politics. Municipal politics is an area where everybody in town is an expert. Municipal councillors are not very well-paid. It really is a labour of love, certainly it is not a labour of happiness. I think we owe all our former and present municipal councillors our thanks, and our thanks to Mr. Patterson for supporting the statement.

---Laughter

---Applause

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Quebec Political Situation
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I rise today to offer my thoughts and opinion on the present political situation in Quebec. Madam Speaker, as you know, the Parti Quebecois with its separatist agenda was recently elected. This does not bode well with the territories, Madam Speaker.

With the creation of Nunavut and the necessity of formulating a valid and workable constitution here in the western Arctic, we as politicians have enough on our plates without the federal government being distracted during the upcoming sovereignty vote in Quebec. I guess what I am saying, Madam Speaker, is that I am concerned that the federal government will put the needs and aspirations of northern Canadians on hold while they deal with the Quebec situation.

Also, Madam Speaker, as an aboriginal person, I am very concerned about the horrible record the Parti Quebecois has in dealing with Quebec natives. Madam Speaker, what will happen if Quebec does decide to separate? We will still be required, by law, to provide services in French. Or can we concentrate our efforts on providing services in aboriginal languages? How would separation affect our language funding from Ottawa? Would we lose the money? Would there ever be any money available?

Madam Speaker, as everyone here knows, I have long advocated the responsibility of aboriginal languages, particularly the teaching of one's mother tongue should be the responsibility of aboriginal organizations and not the government. With no funding from any level of government, it would be impossible for my people to attain our goal. A tough question indeed, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, in the coming years there is much to be done politically in the Northwest Territories. It would be the job of the Premier to ensure that the political goals and aspirations of the residents of the Northwest Territories do not end up on the back burner while Ottawa deals with the Quebec situation. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Quebec Political Situation
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Highway System In Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. When I moved from the eastern Arctic to the west 20 years ago, I looked forward to being able to have a vehicle to drive on a highway. I thought that would be something nice to do. But I soon realized what a nightmare it could be, because more people who tried using the highway south in those days were very often pulled through large tracks of that highway by tractors because of the amount of work that was going on, on a road that was built really for the mining industry.

When I ran in 1987, Madam Speaker, I had a list of things that I thought were important for us to achieve, and I used the word "accountability." In the T in accountability, I had put truckers and a paved road to Yellowknife. That was a plank, if you like, in the platform.

I would like to congratulate the current Minister of Transportation and previous ones who have committed themselves to that vision of a road which, in fact, would link up a road to all kinds of places and people throughout the Northwest Territories, eventually. I'm happy to report that this road now is no longer the subject of complaint that it used to be. I used to meet dozens and dozens of people every summer who had nothing very good to say about their trip north because of the terrible experiences they had had along the road. But now things have changed, and people can see that that was an investment that really was a worthwhile one because people now talk about coming back and inviting their friends to come back. Having a road that makes so many places in the north more accessible to families who can't afford to fly and so on, is a boon to all the people in the Northwest Territories, not only to those people who live along the highway. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Highway System In Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 119-12(6): Renovation Project At Nunatta Campus
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Dennis Patterson on October 13th.

I have reviewed the concern about the type of windows installed at the Nunatta Campus married students' residence.

The original windows were replaced with crank-operated windows in order to improve the ventilation. The windows open to the outside to a range of about one foot. The windows are about three feet from the floor. The department has reported that during an interim inspection of the installation, one of the residence supervisory staff was concerned about the windows. The project officer has advised that he did not make the statement attributed to him. However, at the meeting, it was agreed that the windows were standard installation and were not a safety risk to the children. To the best of my knowledge, the department has not heard any complaints about the windows from other representatives of Arctic College. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 119-12(6): Renovation Project At Nunatta Campus
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

I'd like to recognize Mr. Ben McDonald of the Union of Northern Workers.

---Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation and Department of Public Works and Services. It is with respect to the business incentive policy which has contractors disclosing what benefits they are going to provide locally and to northerners as far as subcontracts, employment, commercial accommodation and those types of things. I would like to ask the Minister, how are these local northern benefits, as disclosed on these forms, monitored by his departments to make sure that they are being met? Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We do monitor the contracts to ensure that local people are being hired. The contractors themselves have to fill out the forms to

express how many local people they are hiring as well as how many northern people they are going to have on the job site.

In the past, we have accepted the Northwest Territories health care card to prove northern residency, but we have found that there are loopholes in that process so we are moving to fix that. In order to be a Northwest Territories resident, you have to be in the Northwest Territories for one year, and in order to get local preference, you have to be in the community for six months.

I have instructed my department to make amendments to all contracts in the Housing Corporation as well as DPWS to clarify their northern component on the job site. It will now be the contractor's responsibility to supply not only health care numbers but also drivers' licences, where applicable, and the addresses of employees so that can be followed up, as well as T-222 tax forms which are proof of income tax paid in the Northwest Territories.

Due to the amount of concern raised by communities, we are going to put this in our contracts so we have some sort of hammer to come down on contractors with. In addition, we will be including a penalty in all contracts for next year if contractors continue to make false claims that they are hiring in the north and they really bring in southerners. We will be removing their business incentive policy -- we'll have that option in place, as well as immediate termination of contracts which will then be taken back into the government's hands, and that will be the penalty. Thank you.

---Applause

Return To Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to then ask the Minister if there is going to be a new person designated in the department to monitor these things to ensure that it's ongoing and that the conditions are being met, or is it going to be done by existing personnel within the department? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. In the past years, we have beefed up the business incentive policy part of the Department of Public Works and Services. We do have two people monitoring it now. We also use project management from the Housing Corporation as well as DPWS. We are also going to work closely with the housing authorities and the local elected people to ensure that northerners are employed, especially local people, on the contracts that we administer. If not, I have instructed the department, like I said previously, to give me the hammers that we can use on these contractors that continue to defraud the government of money because they claim to be hiring northerners when, ultimately, they are hiring southerners. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. With regard to the commercial accommodation portion of the business incentive policy, I would like to ask the Minister what is defined as commercial accommodation within these contracts? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. New question, accommodation. Right now, it is defined in the business incentive policy that you are to use local accommodation. There are some loopholes in that portion of it, as well, where some are getting away with building accommodation in communities and, once it's built for six months, there is a grandfather clause in the existing BIP. We are going to remove that as well so that people are going to be using existing accommodations.

We, as a government, also have a responsibility to the public to ensure that we get value for money so we will be requesting the hotels and motels throughout the Northwest Territories to submit prices for accommodation to a certain standard so that contractors are not held at ransom; for example, they are not expected to pay $250 a night for room and board. We want value for money, and the best way to do that is to get prices directly from the hotels that we can give our contractors to use in the tender documents.

It has also come to our attention that, in some cases, some hotel owners themselves are bidding on contracts, but when their competition goes to them for prices they jack the prices up so it doesn't make for a fair market, so we are moving to close those gaps, as well. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The previous question was not a new question. It's a supplementary question. May I remind the honourable Member it is the chair's responsibility to determine what is a new question.

---Applause

Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you for that clarification, Madam Speaker. I would then like to ask the Minister, with regard to commercial accommodation, if a contractor were to go into a community and rent a house which is a commercial residence but is not a hotel, would that qualify as commercial accommodation under the BIP? Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. No, a private home would not qualify. It's going to be to a standard, whatever facilities have to be licensed by tourism -- or wherever they get their licence from -- and it has to be recognized as commercial accommodation. Thank you.

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Question 176-12(6): Monitoring Of Benefits Under Bip
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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, my question is to the Premier. The Members of this Assembly made a commitment to zero tolerance for violence across the Northwest Territories, however, words are not enough. Can the Premier explain what action the government has taken to ensure zero tolerance for violence becomes a reality rather than a nice slogan?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Health and Social Services, Madam Premier.

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I think even the term "zero tolerance" does not just depict words. It tells a story that shows, in the Northwest Territories and every other part of Canada, the severe problems we are having in that area. Madam Speaker, there are a number of areas where we are taking action, so I will take the question as notice because it will be an extended answer. Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Health and Social Services. In my Member's statement today, Madam Speaker, I pointed out that there is a crisis situation developing with family violence workers across the Northwest Territories. These individuals that are front line are tackling the issue of family violence and carry out work that is very stressful and, at times, dangerous. They are paid up to 40 or 50 per cent less than government workers in similar types of positions and don't have any benefits. Given this government's commitment to zero tolerance for violence, what action is the Minister prepared to take to address this issue?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Health and Social Services, Madam Premier.

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, since 1986, I realize that there have been increases in funding to some of these agencies which were approved and brought forward by the past Minister of Social Services who is now the Speaker of this Assembly. As well, there are many more programs that have been funded at the community level. As of 1986, there were only about three to five programs that were available. Madam Speaker, I will take this question as further notice to provide an extended, detailed answer on what action has been taken. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a question, Madam Speaker, to the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation. My question is, were there any accidental spills in the Snare hydro system in the last year which contributed to the low water in that system?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Power Corporation, Madam Premier.

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I wouldn't mind if the Member would clarify his question.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I thought the question was quite clear. There is now a proposed 22 per cent increase to the water rates because there is not enough water. The Power Corporation has said there is not enough water because of the hot weather during the previous years. My question is, were there any accidental spills in the system which contributed to the fact that the water is low now. Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Power Corporation, Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, as the Member is aware, all across the Northwest Territories, this has been an unusually dry season. To my knowledge, there haven't been any accidental water spills that would have contributed to the requirement of extra charges to provide power to this region. Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

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Question 179-12(6): Accidental Spills In Snare Hydro System
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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Supplementary, I didn't hear a definitive yes or no. I'll ask then that the Minister make that information available to this House.

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Question 179-12(6): Accidental Spills In Snare Hydro System
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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Madam Premier.

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Question 179-12(6): Accidental Spills In Snare Hydro System
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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I did reply that, to my knowledge, there wasn't a release of water by

accident to contribute to the lack of water for the provision of hydro to this area.

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Question 179-12(6): Accidental Spills In Snare Hydro System
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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Supplementary. I remember it was just yesterday when the Premier didn't have that knowledge and actually took the question as notice. It seems like just yesterday that she wasn't able to answer that question. So, I'll rephrase my question, Madam Speaker. Can the Minister make available a report from the Power Corporation that will answer my question? Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, yes, I'll do that. Thank you.

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Question 179-12(6): Accidental Spills In Snare Hydro System
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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Government Leader, since we discussed the issue of recall in our strategic meeting in Fort Smith and since there was some support to have the government prepare a legislative proposal in this area, has the government yet looked at this issue?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, no.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

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Question 180-12(6): Status Of Recall Legislation
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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Since this was one of the issues that we spent some time on in Fort Smith, and because it was a strategic session which dealt with important issues of our times, and since the decision was made in Fort Smith, does the Minister intend to direct her staff to develop such a legislative proposal?

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I will commit myself to take a look at that. Thank you.

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Question 180-12(6): Status Of Recall Legislation
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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral question. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

It's a Yellowknife day today. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board. Last Friday, we were all pleased with the announcement the Minister made concerning WCB in his ministerial statement about the current health of the Workers' Compensation Board.

While I congratulated him at the time because it was a good news statement, I said I would, a little later, take a chance to look at it further and review it. I had a chance to talk to a few people about this over the weekend and comments on it ranged from everything that was in the paper, "amazing financial recovery questioned by labour and employers," and comments like "the man is a financial genius..."

---Applause

...and, on the other hand, Madam Speaker, "the man is a charlatan..."

Some Hon. Members

Ohh.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

..."all smoke and mirrors." There was quite a contrast, Madam Speaker. To satisfy our curiosity, I would like to ask the Minister how he managed to bring about this financial coup of his over the past little while?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Todd.

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Question 181-12(6): Explanation Of WCB Financial Report
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John Todd Keewatin Central

Well, it is not often that you are compared to Albert Schweitzer, so I'll take the compliment as a serious one. My understanding is that the Department of Health sends out a list of contagious diseases every month and I would like to add a new one to it, when it comes to WCB. I would like to define it as whining. Because no matter what you do in this arena, when you have bad news, they're not happy and when you have good news, they're not happy.

The fact of the matter is, the appointment of the new board two years ago -- which I hand picked, in consultation with people across the territories...

---Applause

Thank you, thank you. The appointment of the new chairman and the general manager are the primary reason we're in the position we are in today. Specifically, though, since the Member is concerned about the $13.3 million turnaround -- which we should all be grateful for, by the way -- it occurred because one, the assessment revenues were increased; two, we developed a new rehabilitation program. Instead of sending people to school, we sent them to train on the job which enabled them to go into the workforce far sooner than would normally be the case.

There was a reduction, thank goodness, in the cost of fatalities. And, there was decrease in the supplementary pensions that we had in 1992-93 and 1993-94. There were also a number of administrative tightening-up items that occurred in the Workers' Compensation Board.

As a whole, I'm told by the people across the territories that they're very happy about this. The recent announcement about some of the rates coming down and a few going up has added to their happiness. I hope that, in my small and simple way, I've managed to accommodate the Member and the press who like to write whining things.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister can be assured of our support for his initiatives if, in the long term, they are proven to be right. I think the fear that people have, especially injured workers -- who we are so familiar with because a number of them camped out on our steps last year -- is that a lot of the savings, which have turned into black ink in the government here, are going to go on the backs of the injured workers. I would like the Minister to assure myself, the public and the injured workers that these savings are not going to go on the backs of the injured worker.

Supplementary To Question 181-12(6): Explanation Of Wcb Financial Report
Question 181-12(6): Explanation Of WCB Financial Report
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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Todd.

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Question 181-12(6): Explanation Of WCB Financial Report
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John Todd Keewatin Central

Last year, the WCB handled close to 3,600 claims, I believe. Out of that, if I remember rightly, there were 44 appeals that there was a concern about. My understanding is that these appeals are all up to date. When you deal with 3,600 claims, there are going to be some people who are disgruntled. We are trying to accommodate the majority of people across the Northwest Territories. I believe we've demonstrated that. We're fiscally sound. We're in a better position than the majority of WCBs in the rest of Canada and we should be very grateful to the board of directors, the general manager and the management of this operation. Thank you.

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Question 181-12(6): Explanation Of WCB Financial Report
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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. May I remind the honourable Members to attempt not to provoke debate when answering questions. Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Aivilik, Mr. Arvaluk.

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. From my earlier Member's statement, I would like to ask the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment a question. If, as the Minister says, the federal government used the official Languages Commissioner's report to argue for cuts, what was happening to the annual accounting of languages money that was supposed to be submitted to the federal government?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo. Madam Premier.

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Question 182-12(6): Accounting Of Funds Provided For Official Languages
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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, the Executive offices are responsible for the languages unit, which is the body that monitors and reports on expenditures of the languages department and the agreement between the federal and territorial government.

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Question 182-12(6): Accounting Of Funds Provided For Official Languages
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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Madam Speaker, I suppose I would then direct the question to the same Minister who responded. What I am confused about is, if this accounting took place like the Minister said, wouldn't the federal government have already been aware that some funds were lapsed?

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, it is unfortunate that the Member was not at the detailed briefing provided to Members yesterday. The federal government is fully aware that some of the dollars were lapsed, and that since we set up the languages unit there was better accounting, reporting and tracking of program expenditures. It has improved substantially.

I think the Member has to understand that the overall federal funding that is made available, whether it's for languages or any other government program, is under severe scrutiny. The federal government has a difficulty with continuing to finance provincial/territorial programs, as well as their own programs.

The decisions about cuts should probably be put in context of federal problems and their difficulty with funding at the levels they were previously able to do, Madam Speaker.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Supplementary, Madam Speaker. My apologies that I wasn't at the briefing yesterday. I would like to know what further action the Government of the Northwest Territories is considering to keep the language services at the same level.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I would be happy to provide the Member with the briefing that was presented to the Members of the Legislative Assembly. I want to assure the Member that every effort has been taken to try to

maintain levels of funding. I want to assure the Member that this particular area of program support is very important. We understand that, so we're doing everything we can to express to the federal government the importance of languages, particularly aboriginal languages, in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Justice. Madam Speaker, as part of the government's response to the Final Report of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services, Tabled Document 59-12(5), we were told that the government would propose implementation of the Family Law Review report recommendation giving courts the power to make orders giving the victim of family violence and the children exclusive possession of the family home.

I would like to ask the Minister what steps have been taken so far to implement this response?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, I will have to take the question as notice as it involves another department. Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask a question of the Minister of Finance. Last year, during session, I talked about the harvesters' support program which was in effect quite awhile ago. The Minister of Finance mentioned that he would try to find some funding for the harvesters' support program. It was under special ARDA at the time. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance what he has done so far about the harvesters' support program under special ARDA. Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

It appears that the question should be posed to the Minister of Renewable Resources. However, the Minister of Finance may wish to answer. Mr. Pollard.

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Good afternoon. Madam Speaker, I'll take the question as notice, research what has been done, and report back to the House. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike. It is regarding the firehall at Fort Providence. Madam Speaker, I believe the project was deferred last year. Has the issue of who is building it been resolved, so it can be built this year, or has it been deferred again to next summer?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will have to take his question as notice because...

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a question for the Minister responsible for Housing. Madam Speaker, we were all happy to hear the Minister's announcement earlier this week about the $9 million in new capital funding for new social housing in the Northwest Territories this year. I would like to ask the Minister, is there any indication that the funding will continue for the coming fiscal year, 1995-96?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Morin.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The $9 million is one-time funding only. Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Now, Madam Speaker, I understand this funding is being provided under a new remote housing program. I would like to ask the Minister, is this new remote housing program also going to terminate at the end of this fiscal year, or is the program of CMHC ongoing?

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Morin.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. These new programs are developed through funding from cost-saving measures. This is money that CMHC as well as all of our jurisdictions saved through refinancing and things like that. That is the money being used for this program. So whether or not they will continue this program, I don't know. As far as I

understand right now, the funding is for one year and one year only. Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, I would like to ask the Minister, will he be making efforts to see that we apply for, and rigorously pursue a continuation of funding of this kind, or has he determined that this the end of our campaign to recover the shortfalls in the social housing program. Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Madam Speaker, no I have not given up on that. I will continue to lobby and talk to the federal government to live up to its obligation of supplying housing to aboriginal northerners. Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board. It deals with his announcement last week of the improvements in the structuring of the Workers' Compensation Board. Some of the items in the announcement indicated that they had increased the number of staff who are working there now. If the Members will recall, one of the major problems that was expressed by injured workers was that it took forever to deal with their claims. Often this caused a lot of financial and social hardship on the individuals. I would like to ask the Minister whether the additional eight people who have been added to staff...Will this translate into a much speedier service now for clients?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I know the issue of workers' compensation and its performance for injured workers is an important one for the honourable Member. He has raised a number of issues over the last little while, and I applaud him for it. It's important that we remain vigilant with this board.

I think that in the corporate plan for the WCB, the acquisition of employees that they required was specifically for that. One, was for the board and the staff to be more compassionate and, two, for it to respond more quickly to those who need it most. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, certainly in the new few months we'll put the department or the board to the test, if in fact they do have a much kinder, gentler way of dealing with clients.

The other area, Madam Speaker, that we learned about subsequent to the announcement, is there's a full legal division within the Workers' Compensation Board. I wonder why such a move would be required because I think the government does already have full legal services within the Department of Justice. Why now would the Workers' Compensation Board have a full legal division? Do they have a full legal division?

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Good question. Prior to the Workers' Compensation Board recruiting their own legal employee, all the legal aspects of WCB was contracted out. It was a simple exercise, a cost saving, and they were able to demonstrate to me in their corporate plan that there would be significant savings based upon having in-house legal counsel, rather than purchasing services outside of the board. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Madam Speaker, I, too, was delighted with the announcement from the Minister responsible for the WCB of the turnaround in the financial situation of the board. But I do recall earlier in this Assembly when Members were not so happy with the performance of the board, and questions were directed at a previous Minister responsible for the WCB, questioning whether the WCB should have exclusive jurisdiction over WCB matters.

Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister responsible for the WCB, does he respect the exclusive jurisdiction of the WCB to handle matters within its authority? Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister responsible for WCB, Mr. Todd.

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Question 188-12(6): Exclusive Jurisdiction Of Wcb
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Page 375

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I remember the questions well to the previous Minister. Yes, my position is clear, I do respect the independent nature of the WCB as it relates to its administration, functions and policies.

Return To Question 188-12(6): Exclusive Jurisdiction Of Wcb
Question 188-12(6): Exclusive Jurisdiction Of Wcb
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) I had a question yesterday directed to the Minister of Health. I think it was unclear as to what my question was. Through a Member's statement, I stated, with regard to Cape Dorset and other Baffin communities, that the patients go to the hospital here in Yellowknife. I wanted to find out if they have some posting in Inuktitut for these patients when they come in from out of town, as to where they might be able to look for help if they're at the airport. Do they have something in their language that they would be able to refer to? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Health, Madam Premier.

Return To Question 189-12(6): Multi-lingual Signage In Airports
Question 189-12(6): Multi-lingual Signage In Airports
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, at the Yellowknife airport, there is a small section that has a bit of a bench and it also has a notice telling people that this is the area where they will be picked up. So there is a notice there, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 189-12(6): Multi-lingual Signage In Airports
Question 189-12(6): Multi-lingual Signage In Airports
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Zoe.

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to question the Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin. Could the Minister provide the status report on the telephone services for smaller communities to the House? Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Public Works, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 190-12(6): Telephone Services In Small Communities
Question 190-12(6): Telephone Services In Small Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ordinary Members, the Members for North Slave as well as Nahendeh and Deh Cho, have expressed concerns about inadequate telephone services in their communities. We have been working with NorthwesTel to try to get adequate service in there. At present, I'm trying to set up a meeting with the president of NorthwesTel and the Members of this Legislative Assembly who have that concern. They have asked me to facilitate such a meeting and I'm attempting to do that now. Thank you.

Return To Question 190-12(6): Telephone Services In Small Communities
Question 190-12(6): Telephone Services In Small Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe.

Supplementary To Question 190-12(6): Telephone Services In Small Communities
Question 190-12(6): Telephone Services In Small Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you. Supplementary, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister, how soon does he anticipate that this meeting will occur.

Supplementary To Question 190-12(6): Telephone Services In Small Communities
Question 190-12(6): Telephone Services In Small Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Public Works, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 190-12(6): Telephone Services In Small Communities
Question 190-12(6): Telephone Services In Small Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I've directed my deputy try to set the meeting up while we're here for session, to save dollars for travel. So it will be set up locally before the end of this session. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 190-12(6): Telephone Services In Small Communities
Question 190-12(6): Telephone Services In Small Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I'm concerned about the smaller communities of Jean Marie River, Nahanni Butte and Trout Lake. These communities have, in the past few years, had a number of houses that have cost quite a bit of money to build in the communities, as well as community infrastructure such as band offices, community centres, schools, health centres and so forth. My concern is with regard to fire protection; specifically insurance on these houses and these units. Last summer, a HAP unit in Jean Marie River burned right down to the ground. The fire equipment there was useless, and I've addressed that with the Minister of MACA already. But I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Housing. During the construction of homes in communities, or renovations of homes in the communities as directed by the NWT Housing Corporation, are these units that are under construction insured? Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 191-12(6): Fire Protection Insurance During Housing Construction
Question 191-12(6): Fire Protection Insurance During Housing Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. William Sake who has an alternate unit in Jean Marie River burned down while under construction by a private enterprise. It's my understanding that contractors have the responsibility to carry insurance on the projects they are working on. We are in dispute, I believe with the contractor on this issue. In the meantime, Willie Sake is living in a tent. I've directed the Housing Corporation to replace that unit as soon as possible, so he shouldn't have to suffer because the unit burned. We'll deal with the other problem as a separate issue. Thank you.

Return To Question 191-12(6): Fire Protection Insurance During Housing Construction
Question 191-12(6): Fire Protection Insurance During Housing Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 191-12(6): Fire Protection Insurance During Housing Construction
Question 191-12(6): Fire Protection Insurance During Housing Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister, how is this monitoring carried out by the Housing Corporation if a company or corporation, like in the case of Jean Marie last summer, has no fire insurance coverage? How do you ensure there is fire insurance coverage? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 191-12(6): Fire Protection Insurance During Housing Construction
Question 191-12(6): Fire Protection Insurance During Housing Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 191-12(6): Fire Protection Insurance During Housing Construction
Question 191-12(6): Fire Protection Insurance During Housing Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. All contractors are required to produce documentation of proof of insurance, of WCB and all insurance liabilities as well, on all contracts. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 191-12(6): Fire Protection Insurance During Housing Construction
Question 191-12(6): Fire Protection Insurance During Housing Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you. My question is directed to the Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat. It is with regard to a radio report I heard this morning about the negotiations going on with the union. I understand that the union and government negotiators had a disagreement. I would like to ask the Minister if he could explain, as much as he can, the status of these negotiations. Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 192-12(6): Status Of Negotiations With Unw
Question 192-12(6): Status Of Negotiations With Unw
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I wrote to Members of the Legislative Assembly yesterday, October 18th, and outlined to them what had happened in the negotiations and the positions that were taken at the table. It is complex and detailed, Madam Speaker. I would be prepared to table this document in the House so that it can become the knowledge of the House. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 192-12(6): Status Of Negotiations With Unw
Question 192-12(6): Status Of Negotiations With Unw
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 192-12(6): Status Of Negotiations With Unw
Question 192-12(6): Status Of Negotiations With Unw
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for Madam Premier. As she knows, I have been asking the Minister of Economic Development to formulate a policy for utilization of renewable resources. I would like to ask Madam Premier if she would support that type of initiative, being that it requires interdepartmental support. Thank you.

Return To Question 192-12(6): Status Of Negotiations With Unw
Question 192-12(6): Status Of Negotiations With Unw
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Return To Question 192-12(6): Status Of Negotiations With Unw
Question 192-12(6): Status Of Negotiations With Unw
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I'm not quite sure what renewable resource policy the Member is referring to.

Return To Question 192-12(6): Status Of Negotiations With Unw
Question 192-12(6): Status Of Negotiations With Unw
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Mr. Ng, would you clarify what renewable resource policy? Thank you.

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you. It is the policy that the Minister of Economic Development has undertaken to formulate for Cabinet to make sure we maximize utilization of renewable resources that I have spoken on in the House on numerous occasions. Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Return To Question 193-12(6): Policy On Utilization Of Renewable Resources
Question 193-12(6): Policy On Utilization Of Renewable Resources
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, the honourable Member has spoken often about Renewable Resources policy support. I will take it he is speaking about the use of foodstuffs that could be used in institutions and otherwise. Madam Speaker, yes.

Return To Question 193-12(6): Policy On Utilization Of Renewable Resources
Question 193-12(6): Policy On Utilization Of Renewable Resources
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 193-12(6): Policy On Utilization Of Renewable Resources
Question 193-12(6): Policy On Utilization Of Renewable Resources
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Providing that this policy comes forth to Cabinet and gets adopted, will she ensure that all the departments undertake to maximize the use of these products by adopting this policy? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 193-12(6): Policy On Utilization Of Renewable Resources
Question 193-12(6): Policy On Utilization Of Renewable Resources
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 193-12(6): Policy On Utilization Of Renewable Resources
Question 193-12(6): Policy On Utilization Of Renewable Resources
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I believe that putting together such a policy is the work of an interdepartmental working group, to make sure we can, indeed, reach the objective of using, as much as possible, renewable resources for the support of programs and services that are provided for this government. Madam Speaker, I would also like to indicate to Members of this House that I am one of the very strong advocates that we should do so. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 193-12(6): Policy On Utilization Of Renewable Resources
Question 193-12(6): Policy On Utilization Of Renewable Resources
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Zoe.

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Could I ask the Minister to advise the House what priority is placed on sports and recreation funding, both O and M and capital, within her department? Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 194-12(6): Level Of Priority Of Sports And Recreation Funding
Question 194-12(6): Level Of Priority Of Sports And Recreation Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. As the Member knows, recreation in the north has been promoted a great deal and it is very popular in the communities at the regional level as well as NWT-wide. It has a very high priority in my department. Thank you.

Return To Question 194-12(6): Level Of Priority Of Sports And Recreation Funding
Question 194-12(6): Level Of Priority Of Sports And Recreation Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 378

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Report On Bill 5

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 378

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Madam Speaker, I wish to report to the Assembly that the Standing Committee on Legislation has reviewed Bill 5, Mine Health and Safety Act, and wish to report that Bill 5 is now ready for committee of the whole, as amended and reprinted.

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 378

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Pursuant to rule 70-5, Bill 5 is ordered into committee of the whole. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. I apologize, prior to going to item 14, notices of motion, we will go to item 13, tabling documents. I didn't see your hand, Mr. Pollard. Mr. Pollard.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 378

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I probably didn't have it up high enough. Madam Speaker, I would like to table the following document, Tabled Document 35-12(6), a letter that was sent to all Members of the Legislative Assembly with regard to collective bargaining updates and its attachment entitled, "Government of the Northwest Territories Employer's Response to Union of Northern Workers Monetary Proposals For Collective Bargaining." Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 378

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I give notice that on Friday, October 21, 1994, I will move the following motion: Now, therefore, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Iqaluit, that the Government of the Northwest Territories begin to live up to its adopted commitments to zero tolerance by providing an increased salary and benefits package to family violence prevention workers, comparable to those salaries and benefits being equivalent to positions within the Government of the Northwest Territories.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 14-12(6), "Open for Business" - Privatizing the Northwest Territories Power Corporation; Tabled Document 23-12(6), Report of the 1993-94 Electoral District Boundaries Commission Northwest Territories; Minister's Statement 11-12(6), Return to Session; Committee Report 6-12(6), Report on the Review of Bill 3 - Guardianship and Trusteeship Act; Committee Report 10-12(6), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Capital Estimates; Committee Report 11-12(6), Report on the First Annual Report of the Languages Commissioner of the NWT; Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96; Bill 2, Aboriginal Custom Adoption Recognition Act; Bill 3, Guardianship and Trusteeship Act; Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Arctic College Act; Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act; and, Bill 5, Mine Health and Safety Act, with Mr. Whitford in the chair. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 378

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee will now come to order. What is the wish of the committee? The chair recognizes the Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 378

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to recommend that we deal with Committee Report 10-12(6), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Capital Estimates. And, subsequently, Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 378

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Does the committee agree?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 378

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 378

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Okay, we shall begin immediately following the short break.

---SHORT RECESS

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 378

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee will again come to order after the short break. I hope you all had a chance to refresh yourselves. Prior to the break, it was agreed that we would be discussing Committee Report 10-12(6), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Capital Estimates, and Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96. Chairman of the Finance committee, Mr. Antoine, would you prepare to...May we have order in the House, please?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 378

An Hon. Member

Excuse me.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 378

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Mr. Antoine, now I can hear you. May we have your report, sir?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 378

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Committee Report 10-12(6) is the report on the review of the 1995-96 capital estimates. We read the report to the House already, so it's in the record. There is one recommendation that we would like to deal with before we get into departmental reviews. So I will deal with recommendation 1.

Arctic Resupply

Mr. Chairman, this is Arctic resupply, and this is a very important initiative to the territorial government and the constituents. There is a large potential for cost saving in this resupply initiative. We learned that there are two different departments that are responsible for this initiative of resupply study: the Department of Public Works and Services is responsible for resupply in the Baffin; while the Department of Transportation is responsible for the resupply in the Keewatin. So Members feel that the whole resupply initiative could function much more efficiently if one department took the lead role. As a result of that, we have this recommendation.

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 378

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I move that the committee recommends that the government examine the issue of resupply across the entire Arctic, and that the Department of Transportation assume the lead role for planning, design and implementation. Thank you.

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 379

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine, Member for Nahendeh. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 379

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 379

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

The chair continues to recognize the Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 379

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Also included in our report are reviews of the departments and government agencies which had capital expenditures included in the 1995-96 capital estimates. Departments which did not submit budgets for capital expenditures are not reviewed here. The Legislative Assembly had two capital projects for 1995-96 relating to the Legislative Assembly building and site. The committee accepts the Assembly's capital budget as presented.

As was discussed previously, the committee has focused on policy and major financial issues. The committee's comments and recommendations on the individual departments will be provided as we proceed department by department. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That concludes this portion of our report. If we could get right into departments, Mr. Chairman, we have the Department of Education, Culture and Employment appearing first for the review of the 1995-96 capital estimates. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 379

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Does the committee then agree that we go into the details of the capital estimates?

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 379

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Education, Culture And Employment

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 379

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The document that we will be dealing with is the blue book, the main estimates, beginning at page 16-7; and in the committee report, the items will be found on pages 8 to 10. Would the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment be prepared to make his opening remarks? Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Nerysoo.

Minister's Introductory Remarks

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 379

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, Members of the Legislative Assembly, we are working to improve our organization so that it operates more efficiently, gives people more authority for programs in communities, and offers improved programs and services to the people of the Northwest Territories. Later in this session, I will be tabling the strategic plan for Education, Culture and Employment, which was developed in consultation with the people of the Northwest Territories. The plan will guide the development and delivery of our programs and services into the next century.

As everyone knows, capital planning is an important process in the department which results in the physical infrastructure necessary for the support of departmental programs. Education, Culture and Employment's capital planning process has undergone a number of changes in recent years, which I believe are making it more effective and responsive to the needs of people across the Northwest Territories.

Following the recommendations of this committee, the department has revised its planning process to give more careful consideration to critical factors such as trends in population. We continue to discuss capital planning with our partners in education to improve upon and refine these methods.

We have received approval for new capital standards and criteria which now provide for projects which are modern and reflective of program needs. The department continues to update its infrastructure inventory that documents our current facilities. The inventory will assist us and our delivery partners in tracking trends on demographics and user rates, and will help with the identification and anticipation of needs much more quickly than before. We want our capital planning process to be able to anticipate and meet capital needs in a pro-active way, rather than responding to situations after they have occurred.

Although there have been changes to the proposed projects in the department's capital plan recently, these are simply the result of refining the planning process and of improved consultation, and we expect fewer changes in the future.

We are aware, however, that events could occur that will quickly change the population characteristics in a community or region, such as, for example, the establishment of a diamond mine or a new gold mine close to a community. I would like to assure this committee that our planning process is flexible enough to accommodate this sudden change, however, our government's ability to respond to the financial demand would be more problematic.

Although these refinements have improved our ability to equitably allocate our capital resources, Education, Culture and Employment faces a number of challenges in its capital planning. Financial restraint across government is limiting capital resources, but the need for program services continues to increase. Some of this increase has resulted from the natural growth in the Northwest Territories population, which is the highest in the country. More of the increase has also resulted from a rise in participation rates as students stay in school longer, and through such initiatives as the extension of secondary grades into the communities and as a result, increases in students dropping back into school.

In the past five years, the number of students enrolled in senior secondary grades has almost doubled -- in 1989-90 there were 1,382 students enrolled, compared to 2,695 in 1993-94.

Education, Culture and Employment is now accommodating a greater number of programs through its capital plan than it has previously. For instance, the department is now responsible for the early childhood program, which was transferred from the Department of Social Services. Although we now have capital standards and criteria for child care facilities, and, while we can all agree on the need for these services...

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Mr. Ng has a point of order. Mr. Ng, go ahead.

Point Of Order

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask for a copy of the Minister's opening comments. They're quite detailed and it's hard to digest as he's bringing it forward.

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. It's probably not a point of order in the true sense of the word, however, I'll ask the Minister if he's able to provide copies to the Members immediately so that they can follow what he's saying. Mr. Minister, would you be prepared to have copies presented to the Members in order that they follow you a little more clearly?

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I'm don't have a problem providing a copy, but historically, the Minister was able to give the statement and then provide copies. That was my assumption. That was the practice.

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Again, I recognize the fact that it may have been historical as to what you are doing, but history is always meant to change and it would be quite convenient to the Members if this were possible. Do the Members agree?

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Mr. Chairman, perhaps for this particular circumstance, that would be fine, but maybe in the future we could ask that all Ministers provide the copies before they start their comments to Members. Thank you.

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. We seem to have a consensus on that. So perhaps, Mr. Minister, you can continue uninterrupted until the end of your presentation.

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, as soon as I conclude this, I will make available copies so that Members can have copies of the document.

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Is this an objection? Let's get on with it. Mr. Minister, please continue.

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I appreciate the consideration by my colleagues.

Mr. Chairman, although we have capital standards and criteria for child care facilities, and while we all agree on the needs of these services to provide for early childhood education programs and to allow parents to pursue training and employment, particularly in the smaller communities, I want to advise Members, we have received no extra funding for construction of new facilities where they do not exist or are not provided through private sector investment. We are challenged to find ways to accommodate necessary program space through existing resources so that we may invest in our children in these early formative years.

Education, Culture and Employment is also supporting capital construction projects to promote and maintain aboriginal culture. I am pleased to advise that I have received approval to develop a capital program to support the development of cultural institutes. I expect to announce the details of this program towards the end of this Assembly. Again, the resources for this program will come from current allocation levels.

Mr. Chairman, as part of our renewed commitment to improving services to the people of the NWT, my staff are continually looking for ways to make links between the variety of programs offered by the department. We are well aware that our capital projects have a great potential to support training programs, local employment and help stimulate local economies.

I am pleased to note that Education, Culture and Employment is a partner in the building and learning strategy, with the Department of Public Works and Services, which uses capital projects to train northerners in trades related to the construction trades. The size of our capital projects alone results in community benefits through local involvement, employment and support for existing service sectors.

Further, Mr. Chairman, I am pleased, on behalf of our government, to be able to provide for delivery of the Canada/NWT infrastructure program. The $10.8 million cost-shared program will contribute to infrastructure as well as provide jobs in all our communities. The program will be administered in a manner similar to the $6 million NWT worker training fund that was delivered last year. It differs somewhat from the approach we used, however, because we had to design the approval process around the conditions placed upon us by federal/territorial agreements on cost-sharing.

Mr. Chairman, the Northwest Territories is undergoing a time of great change, including the creation of two new territories, the settlement of land claims and increased self-government. I believe that these changes will greatly benefit people in the regions and smaller communities, but it is important that all our partners manage change in an informed and consistent way. Education, Culture and Employment would like to be recognized as a leader in assisting and aiding the people of the Northwest Territories in working towards a new and exciting future. We believe that the changes we have already made to our capital planning process will help provide the infrastructure necessary to provide educational, cultural and employment programs.

Mr. Chairman, we appreciate very much the assistance of this Assembly in proposing, promoting and supporting innovation and the balance we must have in investment across all government programs.

Mr. Chairman, regrettably and despite our best efforts, we will not be able to meet the expectations of the people of the NWT, who are just beginning to see the impact of financial restraint in Canada, but who recognize the value and importance of education, training and cultural facilities in support of the development of our society. It is becoming increasingly difficult to develop a capital plan, given our resources and the needs. The proposed capital estimates for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment strive to balance the need for capital programs with available resources. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 28-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 1, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. The chairman of the Standing Committee on Finance, the honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On Education, Culture and Employment, the Standing Committee on Finance continues to believe that education should be the most important priority of the government. When northerners are better educated, they will not only be better able to govern and administer their own affairs, they will be better able to care for themselves. While spending in this department, as a percentage of the total budget, has increased somewhat in recent years, committee Members are still concerned that spending on education does not reflect its deserved number one status.

Providing Social Services To Students In The School

The most prominent educational issue discussed by committee Members involved the provision of social services to children in schools. The transfer of the early childhood education -- day care -- program to this department is one example. Not only does it allow young mothers to continue to attend school knowing that there is care available for their children, it also gives students opportunities to learn about early childhood education, either as foundation for a possible career or to learn parenting skills for their own future families. This is an example where using school facilities to provide a social service can have significant future benefits.

Committee Members also discussed providing other services in schools by making space in schools for social workers, health workers and/or police available, to assist students with their social needs. While the department has made some efforts in this area, they have not met the committee's recommendation, made in the review of the 1994-95 main estimates, to establish pilot projects along the lines of the partners for youth projects under way in Edmonton and other cities. In response, the committee recommends in its report, Investing in Our Future, that the government plan and implement a school-based youth services program during the final year of the government's term.

Growing expenses and social costs related to crime, alcohol and drug abuse and family violence are becoming more and more difficult for northerners to bear. Committee Members feel quite strongly that early intervention is the key to long-term success in this area. That is, children must be given the opportunity to resolve problems and handle these issues as early as possible. This is why the integration of social services and educational facilities is seen as such an important area. The committee strongly urges the department to make stronger efforts to provide this early intervention, in order to improve the lives of northerners in the long-term.

New Capital Standards

Committee Members appreciate the presentation of the department's new capital standards and criteria. It is still quite expensive to build schools in the north, so it is important to always look for opportunities to make the best use of funds available. Both the new standards and improved cooperation with the Department of Public Works and Services, can help meet that objective.

Cooperation With Land Claims Organizations

In his opening remarks, the Minister also mentioned that his department would be working with land claims organizations. Where programs relating to education are part of the land claims agreement for a particular organization, the department will be working with them in order to make the best use of all resources available in that area. Committee Members look forward to seeing the results of these cooperative efforts.

Housing For Arctic College Students

Adequate housing for students attending Arctic College campuses in the NWT is still an important issue. The committee understands that the department is completing a study that would incorporate a long-term plan for college residences. Committee Members look forward to seeing the results of this study, and to seeing this plan implemented in future years. Also, the committee is looking forward to seeing the long-awaited corporate plans for the eastern and western colleges.

Canada-NWT Infrastructure Program Agreement

When the federal government and the GNWT negotiated funding under the Canada-NWT Infrastructure Program, Members appreciated being presented with the relevant information by the chairman of the FMB on such a prompt basis. The funds provided under this program will help advance or expand projects that will make a difference to northerners, both through the jobs they create and from the resulting capital projects. Committee Members understand that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment will be the lead department in implementing this agreement, and encourage the department to make the best use possible of this opportunity.

Video Production

In the reviews of the 1994-95 capital estimates and main estimates, the committee raised concerns regarding the purchase of video production equipment in the departments of Education, Culture and Employment and Renewable Resources. In February 1994, those departments provided the committee with a briefing on in-house video production in the government. The essence of this briefing was that most of the government's video production spending goes to the private sector, and that most of the in-house spending is for production of the TVNC youth series The Tube.

Following that briefing, the committee asked the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to provide more detailed information on the cost of producing The Tube. The committee also suggested, "that the Department contract the production of two episodes of 'The Tube' to the private sector as a test case." (Hansard, 12th Assembly, 5th Session, March 15, 1994, page 603. Statement by Mr. Antoine.)

Until the information requested has been received, and until the results of the pilot project are known, committee Members do not feel it is appropriate to recommend approval of further in-house capital expenditures. Once the pilot project has been evaluated, a decision can then be made on replacement of equipment and the future of GNWT video production.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, therefore, I move that the Standing Committee on Finance recommends that all funding for video equipment in the 1995-96 capital budget be deleted. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. The motion is in order. To the motion. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just for the advice of my colleagues so it is clear, there was a request for proposals for the production of two segments of The Tube. However, only one proposal was received. That was received from Pido Productions. What we found, as a result of the additional information we required, was that the costs of producing one or two of those episodes would be the same for the total costs of producing the project. In other words, the total costs of those two episodes would have represented, almost, the costs for total production.

What we then did, Mr. Chairman, was divide it and gave Pido Productions a number of portions of the proposal they submitted and they did the work. But, it was quite complex and the requirements were quite substantive, both financially and in terms of human resource time. So, while the honourable Members may have the impression that we didn't do anything, we did, and we found that the capacity for doing the job was not there.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. To the motion. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Chairman, I know that this government has received excellent value from the Inuit Broadcasting Corporation for its requirements. I think about the material produced on AIDS prevention and other programs that have been done on the social side, dealing with public information and education on spousal assault and other issues.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe the advertisement was run in newspapers across the Northwest Territories. Also, various organizations were sent copies of the advertisement. But, they decided from a practical, financial expenditure perspective, not to apply. We went directly to IBC to ask them to provide us with a specific product and they were capable of doing it. In fact, the advantage in the case of IBC is they already have the total system set up. In the case of Pido Productions, they didn't have that system set up, yet they were the only ones who sent in a proposal.

So, what that showed was that IBC knew what the cost requirements were and probably were a bit concerned about the overall costs of production. They have done excellent work for us and I think their experience has probably taught them some lessons in terms of the requirements for production. As such, they chose not to submit a proposal.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. To the motion. The chair recognizes the Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I want to refresh Members on this issue. There was a deeper concern that this committee has had and Members have had in the last two or three years. There seems to be, in different departments, a proliferation of more and more video equipment and more and more, and more of the government doing something which can very easily be done by the private sector. This committee over the last couple of years has, on a number of occasions, raised this as an issue.

The Minister, in the last O and M budget, came before the committee and gave us an undertaking that if we supported the existing level of resources to the department in this area, he would ensure that any new resources would go to the private sector; that was the deal. At that time, if the Minister remembers, we were very seriously considering cutting out that whole section. The Minister and his staff made a strong case for existing resources, and we had given that as only one example; one task for the Minister to just have a look at the value. But it was symptomatic of a deeper concern that we had.

Now we see, again, more expenditure of money in an area which logically lends itself to the private sector so the committee is concerned about that. And it doesn't seem to be going along with what we thought was the understanding we had reached with the Minister when we went through this last time. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. To the motion. The chair recognizes Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

I appreciate the comments, but if you note, Mr. Chairman, and Members will note, one of the criticisms was that we would try to contract the productions of two episodes. I was trying to advise the honourable Members that we have tried to do that, lived up to the commitment that I made to Members of the House, and the results were not fruitful. But there was still work that was given to the private sector as a result of that particular proposal. So I want you to be aware of that because I don't want Members to be left with the impression that we're not trying to make an effort.

The other issue is, it goes on to indicate, Mr. Chairman, that once a pilot project was evaluated, a decision can be made on the replacement. Well, we've done the evaluation, Mr. Chairman, and I'm trying to advise the honourable Members that this effort and the recommendation were not successful. I do understand the concern that was raised by the Member for Yellowknife North, but the issue was that we were trying to replace a camera to continue with the work. That was all we were trying to do.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Comments relating to the motion. The chair recognizes Mr. Patterson.

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

I'm really trying to understand this, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the Minister's statement that the department made an effort to contract these episodes. I guess my concern is that when one compares costs in the private sector -- I don't like to use that term because I think we're looking at non-profit organizations like communications societies, as well as companies like Pido Productions -- with the cost of doing them in government, it's not always a fair comparison because when governments budget the cost of doing a television program, departments don't have to worry about the costs of employees' salaries and benefits, for example. Departments don't have to worry about the costs of utilities, oil and electricity, for example, because the Department of Education doesn't have to pay the oil and electricity bills in the government building where the program is produced. It's another department and another ministry like the Department of Personnel or Finance that covers the VTA and the medical benefits and the like. I don't need to go on and on. So I guess, Mr. Chairman, I have to ask the Minister if he's saying they couldn't meet our budget. No one was interested in tendering for a reasonable price. I'm wondering whether those overhead costs were considered, those costs that are borne by the outside company, considering that they're absorbed in-house with the government departments. Was it a fair comparison? Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

No, Mr. Chairman. What I'm trying to advise the honourable Members is this: for instance, right now, the comparison of in-house costs versus contracting, fully burdened personnel costs of 3.9 PYs is $237,000, less 20 per cent for non-production activities was $47,000, which calculated, including O and M and including $150,000 for studio lease -- or less 20 per cent, I should say -- which was $189,600. O and M, including $150,000 for studio lease and contract was $366,000. Equipment based on the value of $350,000, depreciated over 10 years was $35,000, for a total cost of $509,600.

The number of shows -- 26 -- the average cost was $22,712 for the department. For private sector cost, the estimated costs for 26 episodes was $1,384,812. The estimated cost per show was $53,262.

If you look at the cost increase to government, we would require an additional $794,212. Just so that you're aware of that. Still we wish to carry out the advice of my colleagues. But I just wanted you to be aware about two things. One, we did try to carry out the advice that was given and we continue to do it, but I wanted you to be aware that these were additional costs that were associated.

We do still have arrangements with IBC whenever we think there's a need for them, and, in fact, in cases we'll call directly for proposals from those organizations.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 383

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. To the motion. The chair recognizes Mr. Patterson.

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the information that was provided by the Minister is most interesting, although it's difficult to analyze it here on the floor of the House.

Mr. Chairman, I just want to ask one further question. I note the Minister's commitment that he is still wishing to carry out the intent of this motion. I guess my question would be then, since I understand this equipment budget, these monies that we're voting on now, is to purchase new video equipment, and since the Minister is saying we'd like to find a way to involve the private sector and to carry out the intent of the motion, could the department not get by for another period of time with the present equipment and not make a sizeable capital investment in new equipment. Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I believe that we can probably get by, but probably at some time we're going to have to come back and ask the Members to consider the issue again. Just again so that you're aware that it's a camera that we're talking about, and not necessarily other video equipment.

Just so you are aware. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. To the motion. The chair recognizes the Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Yes, we have had this issue of purchasing of video equipment come up several times, Mr. Chairman. There are a few issues here which -- although it's not a huge capital item -- always seems to cause controversy.

At one time, it was Renewable Resources which wanted to have its own propaganda, and the argument was that there was somebody in the department that knew how to operate these things, so at least the government has moved away from every department wanting to have their own to centralizing things in one department that could act as a service to the other departments of government.

The question still remains that very often these things are toys, and you wonder how many days a year they are actually used. Every individual who makes a capital purchase in his or her own private life, I suppose, has learned from that experience that you want to have something and then when you have it, you use it so many days a year and then it just sits somewhere, not being used.

So my own preference would be that we look at where the advantages are of owning as compared to leasing. Maybe you are better off to lease, and we may learn from that experience that the government then doesn't have to have stuff which is used briefly and then ends up in the government warehouse because it's surplus and not being used any more, especially when new models are coming on the market all the time.

This is the big problem. You own something. It becomes obsolete, and you say, oh, there's a better model. And the big complaint I have heard from the private sector is that they can't afford to keep up with all the trends to buy the latest equipment, because almost every year or two there's a new model that comes out that's bigger, better, more versatile and so on. That's the big beef I hear from the very few people who are involved in this business locally. They would be far better off if the private sector could buy something for which they knew there would be a use in several different phases of government operations and wouldn't have to fight every year because they see the government buying all the latest stuff to keep up to speed.

So I am very much in support of what the committee wants to do, which is to see if we can't find a better way of deciding what we want to own and what we want to lease or rent and so on. So I will be supporting the motion.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 384

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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An Hon. Member

Question.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

That concludes this portion of the standing committee report. Does the Minister wish to take the witness chair and bring witnesses in to assist him?

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Page 384

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, yes.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Sergeant-at-Arms, would you assist the Minister in bringing his witnesses to the witness table? Mr. Minister, once you get established there, would you be so kind as to introduce your witnesses to the committee?

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. On my left is the deputy minister, Mr. Hal Gerein. On my right is Mr. Jim Kaulbach.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Welcome, gentlemen, to committee of the whole. We are dealing with Education, Culture and Employment, and the page that we will begin on, in your blue books, is 16-7. General comments to this section. The chair recognizes the Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to the opening comments of the Minister, I would like to ask him a couple of questions.

In the review of their new capital planning process and trying to identify trends in population and trying to address the expected needs, in a proactive way, it's suggested, rather than to respond to the situations after they have occurred...We realize that in the past couple of years there have been some problems in the unexpected high growth of our communities and the new schools that are coming into play that are being delivered undersized or else, by the time they are ready, they are full already. So first of all, I would like to ask him what the basic criteria is for the planning of new schools. When they try to have them complete, what kind of occupancy levels are they expecting them to be at? Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. Seventy per cent.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The chair continues to recognize Mr. Ng.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Okay, I would like to ask the Minister then, in recognizing the problem that they have had in having schools built undersized, when have they started to address this and is it in place now where there shouldn't be these problems or that they should be minimizing these problems in future new schools? Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Mr. Minister

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I believe that the new standards and criteria will address that particular matter much better than we have done in the past. We will be able to calculate, I think, the student population but also hopefully forecast what the growth trend is in a particular community as well.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The chair continues to recognize the Member for Kitikmeot.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess the reason I bring this up is -- of course, I have been fortunate; there's a new elementary school that just opened in Cambridge Bay a month and a half ago, and there's one being constructed in Coppermine right now -- that it's my understanding that both these schools are at full capacity, and one's already undersized, the one in Coppermine that's coming on stream next year. These are projects that have been planned for the last couple of years, from what I understand. So, in saying that, I would like to ask how the Minister and his department will be addressing this -- I am not familiar with the situations in other constituencies -- overall within the department? Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 385

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to that particular matter, it is based on the opening of the new school, and maybe it's at capacity now. I am not certain. I don't have that information with me so I can't make the calculation, but I do think that one of the things that we are trying to do is to make certain that the schools are at approximately 70 per cent, have an additional 30 per cent capacity to them, but if that's not the case then there's a bit of a problem. Just so that you are aware, we also built those two schools according to the standards that we had previously.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Ng.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

I would then like to ask the Minister, there's an implementation phase for the new standards which I understand are in place now for future projects, but then you have a lot of the existing schools under the old standards that, like I mentioned, are going to be in difficulty because of the sizing. So, how are you going to address that issue? By bringing forward, I guess, expansions, or how are you going to deal with the issues of undersized schools that were built by the old standards? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I think what we will have to do is that we have to work closely with the divisional boards. It is difficult, as we've been advising the House and Members about the growth in our communities and we see it in terms of school population. I just had the same discussion with the Keewatin divisional board of education where we're finding now that there are 200 more new students in school than we had anticipated last year. It is a growing concern. It is occurring in most of the communities. What we need to do is to get a sense of what we are trying to do with our schools. Just one issue, though. In the case of the schools in Cambridge Bay and Coppermine, the actual population of Cambridge Bay is, say, 372 and the design should allow for 420 students. In Coppermine, there are 365 students and the design should also allow for 420. But, if there are issues that have to be dealt with, then obviously we should work with the divisional boards and iron out those matters. But, it is still a very serious problem. We are trying to find ways to better address it in terms of our construction program.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The chair continues to recognize Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 385

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have one more question and then will give other Members an opportunity to address the Minister as well. In his opening comments, he talked about delivering the Canada-NWT Infrastructure Program. He said that the infrastructure program will provide jobs in all of our communities. I have already brought forward this matter and haven't received a response. There are two particular communities in my constituency -- and I don't know about other Members -- that haven't qualified under this program because they are unorganized communities, particularly the community of Umingmaktok.

I would like to ask the Minister if he is willing to consider providing some kind of allocation to these unorganized communities? Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Minister Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The program was based on an arrangement with Canada to involve already-incorporated communities or recognized communities. I do want to say to the honourable Member that I believe we have the ability to manoeuvre within the allocation so we can respond to the requests of communities who are not on the list. We need to work with each MLA so that we can identify those communities.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 385

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 385

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I'm curious about the department's plans for meeting the requirements for college residences. I know there was a private consultant contracted to do a study on residence requirements throughout the Northwest Territories which, I take it, would lead to a plan within the department. Could I ask for the status of that study and the government's response to it? Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Minister Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I do have a response to that, if I could just go get it. It should be on my desk.

I apologize, Mr. Chairman. The study on college residence requirements by Avery, Cooper is complete. The study is now in the hands of the department for review, so we can develop a financing strategy to meet the identified needs. The strategy still needs to deal with the fiscal capacity and the desired public and private mix of investment to meet the needs that have been identified.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The chair continues to recognize Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think this approach makes sense. I would like to ask the Minister, are you presenting in the capital estimates here, expenditures for residence facilities even in advance of the development of a comprehensive plan? Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 386

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. Not in terms of the report that was recently completed, Mr. Chairman. That will hopefully be part of the ongoing plans for the future.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. The chair continues to recognize Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Chairman, maybe I should wait for the detail, I don't want to get too far into this area, but I had heard that there had been approval given to renovate Akaitcho Hall for the purpose of accommodating college students. I want to make it clear that I think that may well be a worthwhile expenditure of money. Is that true, Mr. Chairman? And, if so, how does that fit in with the comprehensive plan we were discussing? Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Minister Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 386

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The discussions that have been going on so far are basically to address the campus needs, not necessarily the residence needs. In other words, the program staff and the group that is here delivering administration.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. The chair recognizes Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 386

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

So, do I understand that what the Minister is saying is that if there are renovations under way at Akaitcho Hall, they are to provide classroom facilities and not student residence accommodation?

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Minister Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 386

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

At this time, that is correct.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

General comments. Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 386

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

If I may, Mr. Chairman, I would also like to express a concern about the recent call for proposals, which I referred to in my reply to the budget address, for future directions of existing student residences in Iqaluit, Inuvik and Rankin Inlet. Forgive me if I should be saving this for the more detailed part of the budget, but I would like to ask the Minister a general question.

Is the department moving towards closing those three residences? I ask that because the terms of reference of the recently-issued consultant's study seems very clear on providing options for a phase-out plan for residences, staff lay-offs and exploration of optional uses for those facilities being recommended for phase-out. Is it the department's intention to get out of the business of accommodating high school students in those three regional residences? Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Minister of Education.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 386

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, the direction that we have been taking, as all Members recognize, is our intention to get out of those residences if high school programming is available in the communities. That is the direction that the communities are going. What we do want to identify, first of all, if there is a requirement for us to get out of it. Secondly, what are the alternative needs?

As Mr. Patterson pointed out, I was in Iqaluit with him when we visited the residence in that community, so I understand some of the concerns. I believe that those kinds of interventions can be part of the review and the studies that are being conducted right now.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 386

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

I'll just finish off with a comment, Mr. Chairman. I'm taking it from the Minister's response that if the detailed investigation of this issue shows that, in fact, any regional residence or all of the regional residences are still filling an unfilled need -- for example, providing a place for advanced diploma students to attend school where the programs are not yet in place or not available in their home communities -- the Minister and the department will have an open mind about justifying the continued operation of the residence where that need is being filled. That's my concern, that this be approached with an open mind and that it not be a predetermined conclusion that the object of the study is to justify the closure of the residences. I think Mr. Nerysoo's response has satisfied me that there will be an open-minded approach to this, even though possible phase-out of the residences is included in the terms of reference. So that's a comment. I'm satisfied with that for now. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Minister, do you wish to reply?

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to advise the honourable Members and those Members who have residences in their constituencies or those who are affected, I have advised the consultant to contact all the MLAs who are affected so that they can receive advice from the appropriate MLAs.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. General comments. The chair recognizes the honourable Member for Natilikmiot.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 386

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a brief comment while we are in the

Department of Education, Culture and Employment 1995-96 capital estimates.

Mr. Chairman, I support the department's initiative to build conventional-type schools in the system. I think just about every community across the territories enjoys having a gymnasium attached to the schools in our system. I am sure the Minister is aware that Pelly Bay has been requesting to get an attachment of a gymnasium to the existing school. I also respect the decision of the Kitikmeot regional education council, especially in today's time where there are limited resources in the system.

Mr. Chairman, it becomes very cumbersome in the wintertime, when the school children have to go from their classes in another building to the community complex in order to go through the physical activities that are required of them, especially in the wintertime when it's really, really cold. Mr. Chairman, I have talked to the community of Pelly Bay about this matter, especially the community education council. The Kitikmeot Divisional Board of Education is aware of the requirement. I understand that we don't have all the resources we need to do that for the people of the NWT, so the basic classroom, basic school, conventional-types, that's what we go for. But, Mr. Chairman, I'm also aware that just about every community enjoys the luxury of having a gymnasium attached to the school.

My question to the honourable Minister, Mr. Chairman, is the honourable Minister aware of the fact that Pelly Bay requires a gymnasium attached to the existing school? Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 387

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we are aware of the request and we are working with the community and the Kitikmeot Divisional Board of Education to see if we can resolve or at least address the concerns that have been raised by the community.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. The chair recognizes the Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, I would like to refer to the mission statement made by the Standing Committee on Legislation... It is a very good statement, and I would hope that the standing committee is looking at that while they do all the reviews of their allocations. But, Mr. Chairman, I have noticed quite obviously that if I look at the allocation, it seems to me that there doesn't seem to be a fair distribution.

One thing I wanted to mention is that on December 11, 1993, there was a motion passed with regard to recommending that the Minister of Education include an adult education centre for the Hay River Reserve when developing the department's five-year capital plan. I don't know whether the Standing Committee on Finance also looks at these when they're doing their stuff, but this was moved by Mr. Antoine and seconded by myself.

The other is with regard to a motion regarding a small school for Kakisa. Again, this one was moved by Mr. Lewis and seconded by myself. If I look at the allocation, I expressed on numerous occasions about the need for the adult education centre in Fort Providence to be enlarged.

Mr. Chairman, we have, I think, 12 students going to school in Fort Providence in a very small building, and I see that there is going to be some money available for the planning of it for 1994...Oh, that's the wrong one. That's the one for Fort Simpson. It's too early to be mine. In 1996-97, that's a few years down the line yet. But there is a difference. In Fort Simpson, I guess they're getting theirs a year earlier. Not only that, they also got something like over $4 million spent this year on Bompas Hall, and they plan to spend over $3 million on Thomas Simpson School. In Fort Simpson, Mr. Chairman, I would like to say that the school in Fort Simpson was built after the school that was built in Fort Providence. I should know, I was going to school in Fort Providence while they were still constructing the Point Hall and Bompas Hall at the Thomas Simpson School. So, I can safely say that the school in Fort Providence is about four years older than the school in Fort Simpson, where they are doing renovations and construction.

I would like to say that this mission statement sounds really great, but if the Members aren't going to live up to the statement, it is hardly worth the paper it is written on. Of course, I would like to say that we had two motions supported by the Assembly and nothing has been done about them. I would like to know if, in fact, anything is going to be done about it?

The other thing, Mr. Chairman, is I have been talking about getting a student residence in Fort Providence. I have made motions to that effect on numerous occasions and they haven't been acted on. I hope it is going to be acted on. Since being elected in 1983, I have tried to get something done. I've asked for reasons it hasn't been. Fort Providence is the second-highest fur harvesting community. A lot of people go out, but they do it on the weekends and while their children are going to school. It could probably be the highest fur harvesting community if parents were allowed to have their students stay in a student residence. I have said that for 11 years, Mr. Chairman, and I'm not going to stop saying it, either.

The other thing is, we have a situation in Fort Simpson where a lot of students are home boarding because there isn't enough space. I would like to ask the Minister whether or not he would be able to support the community of Fort Providence or give the option to the community of Fort Providence of sending their children to high school in Hay River.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were concluded, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 387

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I favour the mission statement about effectiveness and economy. I hope it doesn't only deal with this government, but also the communities that are affected by the delivery of schools in the regions. The only way to get to Simpson is to drive or if you charter. There is a difference for the people from Providence who can drive to Hay River in half the time. There is also a scheduled air service from Providence, at $80 a trip, to go to Hay River on Tuesdays and Thursdays. There are also scheduled bus services every other day. We also have a river system.

I would like to say that I hope the Minister will respond to the issues that I have brought up. When Mr. Pollard used to be the chairman of the Finance Committee, we used to have a scale on which we listed all the communities and constituencies, and the amounts of money going into the constituencies. That gave us a pretty good picture of what is happening. The way it is now, all the Members have to look at are the allocations made in the various regions to determine what communities get what. As far as I'm concerned, my communities have been put on the back burner even though the urgency is greater.

They changed the Elizabeth Ward to an elementary school now. I would like to see something, even the Finance Committee, to put their mission statement into effect and work on that basis. I certainly don't see that happening.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 388

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

I can't answer all the issues that he has raised, because some of them also deal with the committee report. I do want to raise a couple of issues though. I understand the concern the honourable Member has raised with the community learning centre in the Chief Sunrise School. However, I think both of us should travel there. I think one thing that we are finding is that there is a lot of extra space in the school. I think we need to reorganize it so that it responds to the needs you are talking about. I would like to try to address that jointly; I think we may be able to resolve that matter.

On the issue of Kakisa, I believe there were six students. The potential is that it will be going down to four with one teacher. They are now operating in a trailer. Again, I will see what we can do in terms of dealing with this issue.

I do want to say to my colleague that we do try to, and have been trying to, address things based on need. We priorize some of the commitments we are making based on an assessment of numbers, growth and programs. Let me give you an example. We have situations where high school programming is going into communities. We are trying to address those issues as well.

I appreciate the concern you raised about Fort Providence students wanting to go to Hay River. That is an issue that is normally dealt with, with the boards. I support the Member's comments in making that transition, if that is the decision which is made. I'm not opposed to it, and if the agreement can be reached, if the honourable Member can convince the board to work out that arrangement, that is not a problem with me.

On the matter of home boarding, again, maybe that is something we have to work out in the community. I have been receiving conflicting positions. While I appreciate the position that the honourable Member has taken, I think we probably have to meet with the community and I would be prepared to

meet with the community with him to discuss these particular issues.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. The chair continues to recognize the Member for Deh Cho. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 388

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you. Also, I believe the school in Kakisa has been reclassified from a regular school to a settlement school. I don't know how they're reclassified, but could you maybe look into that? The other thing I wanted to ask the Minister is whether or not your department may be able to look at, through economies of scale, what it would cost for students to go to Fort Simpson to go to school there; let's say, 10 students going to school in Fort Simpson as opposed to 10 students going to school in Hay River to justify it. I say that if we go by the principals of the mission statement of Finance, the economy of scale would mean that it's better for students to go to school in Hay River. Since the cost of living is a lot lower there, it wouldn't cost the government that much and it certainly wouldn't hurt the parents, either, because it would be cheaper for them to go to Hay River.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 388

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. We will certainly consider the suggestion made by the honourable Member. Historically, the intent of the divisional board was to try to put together the appropriate language groupings. I do understand the concern that the honourable Member has raised, but that was one of the bases by which we established the divisional board for Deh Cho. But I don't have a problem with the suggestion being made.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I guess the Minister has to remember, too, that the reason Akaitcho Hall closed in the first place was because of the costs to keep the students there. It just wasn't economical for the government to do that. I don't say this without the government having to decide that...What they did, in closing down Akaitcho Hall, really affected my community. So I am sure that it also affects the government with regard to the amount of money that they have to spend to have students from Providence going to Simpson, because you really don't have any kind of scheduled services over there. I am sure that chartering the students, whichever way you look at it, costs a lot more than if you had scheduled services.

The other thing I wanted to say is that, again, I still have a problem with the adult education centre in Fort Providence. We have computers. Students do computer work, and we have a small classroom that houses about six computers and around it are the students trying to do other work, too, besides that. I am saying that if my priorities were set, I would have asked and requested that the Minister seriously look at that, because if you look at the allocation, it's not much. We are looking at maybe $200,000, and I am sure that we should be able to find those kinds of dollars within the existing budget, especially if you are going to get rid of your video equipment.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 388

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, whatever advice I can get from my colleagues on saving the government money so we can use it in other infrastructure, I will gladly consider. Just so the honourable Member is aware and Members are aware, grade 10 was scheduled for 1994-95, grade 11, 1995-96

and grade 12, 1996-97. I am not opposed to any of the advice that the honourable Member is giving.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 389

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. The chair recognizes Mr. Patterson, Member for Iqaluit.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 389

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Chairman, I fulminated last week in this Assembly about frustrations that my constituents had experienced with minor capital projects at the Nunatta campus in Arctic College, and I think the Minister of Public Works and Services was pretty candid in saying that they were a low priority and that he really didn't have a good explanation for the delays of projects, even though the funds were in the hands of the region.

I guess I would like to ask the Minister, has consideration been given to allowing the College authority to manage their own projects, because I suspect that if you had asked Nunatta campus to get the carpet replaced in the student residence this summer while the students were away, it would have been done by now. Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 389

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Minister Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 389

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't want to, in any way, be critical of my colleague or anything like that.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 389

An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)

---Laughter

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 389

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

I do want to say this, even in his absence, Mr. Chairman...

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 389

An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)

---Laughter

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 389

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

...that I think Mr. Morin knows that we have had some concerns with regard to the delivery of capital projects. We do intend to meet. I believe that there's an assignment by Cabinet of three Ministers to get together to try to resolve the issue of capital construction, and the assignment was to Mr. Todd, Mr. Morin and myself to see if we could rectify some of the concerns that Members have raised, and, of course, each Minister has raised in this House. So we have been instructed to resolve this particular matter. I have written to my colleagues on this issue, and as soon as we conclude the budget session, I hope that we can at least get together for a day to have some general discussions as to where we go on this particular issue. So your comments, along with the comments of other Members, have been heeded, and I think that, hopefully, we can resolve some of the differences.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 389

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. The chair continues to recognize Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 389

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Yes, I am pleased with that response, Mr. Chairman, and I hope that the situation will improve. I guess I would just like to ask the Minister generally, for some years, you have handed over responsibility for capital to the Yellowknife school boards. I know that they have some of their own ratepayers money in it, and so maybe that's an incentive to get better value, but is the general impression of the department that the school boards in Yellowknife are getting good value for their money in the schools that are constructed here? My impression, and it's a lay impression, is that the school boards are getting excellent value for their money and perhaps even getting better value for their money than if the project had layers and layers of DPWS monitoring involved in such projects.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 389

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Minister

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 389

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do want to say that the indications from the school boards...The separate school board, in particular, who are building their high school, have indicated they have received excellent value for the resources that we provided them. In fact, they have been able to provide additional resources themselves to expand the school. I think what we're going to get is good value for the dollars that we're spending here.

I just want to advise the honourable Member that part of the discussions I hope to have over the next year during our debate on the Education Act, is the concept of allowing the boards to assume more responsibility for capital. But it requires direction and consensus on the part of my Cabinet colleagues and I think consensus in the House, because I think the more we wish to extend the authority of the boards, whether it be Arctic College or the divisional boards of education, I think that's part of the discussion. Even at the present time, we can extend on the authority, but it needs a policy change and I hope my colleagues will consider it.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 389

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. General comments. The chair recognizes the Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you. There has been some discussion on the impacts of grade extensions in communities, and the concern on residences and existing residences, and obviously in some places there may be a perceived need for other kinds of residences.

The one issue that keeps coming to my mind is with the grade extensions. I know the intent is to offer a full range of academic programming, but I think reality is we may be offering...Rather than an individual coming out with a grade 12 in academic studies, they may come out with a grade 12 general diploma. There are some students who may want to pursue the academic courses and go on to greater things.

I'm just wonder how in these evaluations -- I assume you're evaluating the programs, it says they expand -- we're looking after those students who wish to pursue the academic course of studies and go on to university to become doctors and lawyers, or is it a concern?

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 390

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Minister Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 390

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The whole matter of course delivery is really a matter that should be part of the board's plan for the delivery of high school programs in communities. They are, in many respects, the agents that are now responsible for actual program delivery. So what needs to be done is a discussion with the community and with the students who are affected to see what, in terms of programs, they require. Nothing that we've told any of the boards so far restricted their ability to deliver programming.

The other component that is important in this is the method of delivery of programs, because I think we have vehicles to use that we should be using much better: computer telecommunications, video, television, which can be used in the extension program. I think that as we get on with some of the work, we'll be able to better deliver those programs. But it is normally the case of the board.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 390

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. The chair continues to recognize the Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 390

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. With the grade extensions, obviously there's need to evaluate the existing facilities in the communities, in most cases, because you're adding more students, more grades. There may be a need to expand a school or at least renovate the school to fit in these high school students. I assume, if the school is going to offer the full range of academic courses, that there's a need for science labs and some other special types of classrooms. My concern here is who is responsible for that aspect of evaluating what's there and what's needed as we move in grades 10, 11 and 12...

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 390

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Minister, there were just a couple of words that were not entered at the end there about the grade levels.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 390

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I could hear them, though. I appreciate your intervention.

Mr. Chairman, generally speaking, the board, the CEC and the department try to get together to evaluate what it is in terms of the need. If there's a requirement for renovations to accommodate the need, then that is part of the program planning.

The other component is if there's an expansion to, for instance, 11 and 12 with no space, then obviously there has to be a decision made by the region to determine whether we have the resources to add the expansion to the schools. There are generally four components that are important in planning. One is a science component, business, computer, arts and the career technology program.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 390

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The chair continues to recognize Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 390

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. In terms of ongoing...I know I'm asking some questions relating to O and M, but it's relevant to the line of questioning here. Once you have a school, then there's a requirement to maintain that school. So I assume somebody must have a set of standards. Whose responsibility is it then to maintain the building or the facility to the standards and criteria that...I assume there's a manual that this government has. Whose responsibility is it to do that?

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 390

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Minister Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 390

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, unless there's a program change, I believe the Department of Public Works and Services are the maintainers of our educational facilities.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 390

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 390

Fred Koe Inuvik

Is there money allocated from the Department of Education, Culture and Employment's budget to Public Works? I know it all ends up in the same pot, but do you have a set budget and then contract Public Works to do that service?

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 390

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Minister Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 390

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

I don't know the specific detail to that. If I could ask the deputy minister to explain the intricacies of that particular relationship.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 390

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Deputy Minister Quirke. I'm sorry. My gosh.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 390

Gerein

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wore a different tie than John is wearing. Mr. Chairman, with each school or each addition that is planned, there is an accompanying O and M resource that is identified at the time and is added to our O and M base at the time of the construction of the new facilities. Generally, the O and M base would be transferred to Public Works and Services.

Right now, we do some of our operations and maintenance through vote 4/5 arrangements, which means that we basically transfer the funds to the boards -- and when we go to our O and M budget, you'll see that -- and then Public Works bills the boards back for the services that they provide for utilities and maintenance services. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 390

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Deputy Minister Gerein. The chair will continue to recognize the honourable Member for the Delta, Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

Fred Koe Inuvik

Member for Inuvik, Mr. Chairman. That's the Member for Mackenzie Delta there.

---Laughter

Thanks for that information, but if that's the case, if that money is allocated to boards, then can I assume the boards have some discretion on who they can use to maintain their buildings?

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Minister Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 391

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, no. There is no discretion. The only ones that have those responsibilities right now are YK No. 1, YK No. 2 and Chief Jimmy Bruneau school.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 391

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Many of our existing schools are aged. Many in the Delta, in the Beaufort and even in Inuvik are almost as old or older than I am. These buildings are in varying conditions. There were some concerns this summer that arose about the conditions of some of the schools, in terms of safety. The flooring, roofs and foundations were in varying degrees of deterioration. Who is responsible for looking after buildings, assessing them and making recommendations on conditions? Are there ongoing evaluations and studies of these buildings?

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Generally, major renovations fall within the responsibility of the department and any ongoing renovations, like roof replacement, is the responsibility of Public Works.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 391

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you. In Inuvik, the majority of the buildings are on pilings, as I mentioned. The Samuel Hearne school was built in 1957 and was opened in 1958. It is 39 years old, if my math is right. There have been studies done on pilings, and for some of the pilings, the logs weren't treated appropriately. There is rotting of the piles at ground level. I was just wondering if any evaluations have been done regarding school pilings in Inuvik?

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 391

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. In those cases, any identification and ongoing maintenance is generally the responsibility of the Department of Public Works and Services.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 391

Fred Koe Inuvik

I hope, in the overall government studies of the Department of Public Works and Services and their maintenance people, that if they contract this type of work, they don't forget to check the foundations of schools and buildings. I know it is a key concern. I believe that in Mr. Minister's communities, the condition of the schools is under question.

Another area I would like to get some clarification about is the area of regional libraries and the provision of libraries. There has been a program to provide funding for regional libraries, including regional resource centres, so that there is a central location to provide books and other material libraries provide. Has the program, as some of us know it, changed or is it changing?

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 391

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes. We have to review it to consider the new technologies that are available to us. Now we're able to provide better equipment and access to information in our smaller communities to the point where they're able to access more information, whether it is through computer CD-ROM or video exchange, or accessing information other than from our regional libraries. I think that has to be considered in our new initiatives.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 391

Fred Koe Inuvik

This is something that interests me. In a community such as Inuvik, there seems to be a proliferation of libraries and resource centres. There is Arctic College, a science centre, two schools, a community library, Delta House has a resource centre and Education, Culture and Employment has a resource centre. To me, it would make sense to have an evaluation of these to look at amalgamating resources. Again, it is all government-funded.

I know there is a project for a library in Inuvik and I appreciate that, but we provide a lot of the same services to the same clients, and Inuvik being a regional centre, we are providing service to the communities. To me, it makes sense to make an evaluation. We also have to move on that because I'm aware of studies looking at other facilities like Grollier Hall, for example. We also have to look at the schools, because of grade extensions and impacts on schools and the tremendous growth of Arctic College in terms of its classroom needs. We already know it is too small right now. There is a lot of work to do.

I know the department is considering it, but my concern is the coordination of all of this in the community of Inuvik. Whatever happens in Inuvik has tremendous impact on all the communities. I just wanted to state my concerns. I hope the department will take them into consideration in the work they are doing. Mahsi.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

I think the comments that the honourable Member has made are very positive and we will take note of them.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments or general questions, please. Mr. Arvaluk.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 391

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm not sure if this is a general comment or a detailed question. The reason that I'm making it under general comments is that I'm trying to compare different pages at the same time.

A few questions, Mr. Chairman. Under definitive objectives, it says to finish construction of community learning centres; in Coral Harbour, for example, the fourth line. On the detail side, for Keewatin, community learning centre in Coral Harbour, $20,000. I'm a little bit confused.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 392

The Chair Brian Lewis

I think we'll be getting into all this detail once we go line by line, so I don't want to sort of stop the flow of comments. Maybe you can keep that in mind. We'll be getting to it eventually. Mr. Arvaluk.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 392

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Not on any particular pages, but the community education council in Coral Harbour has made an official arrangement with the Arctic College to house the Arctic College in the wing of the school. There was an understanding that when the space was not needed by the school, the CEC were in favour of it being used by any group or organization that would benefit Coral Harbour. For example, Arctic College. But now, that area is needed for school use, even after the renovations were done. For example, there is no space for distance education, day care, study room, meeting room, cultural inclusion, teaching area, because there is a proposal in the budget that the east wing will be reverted to Arctic College.

When it comes to detail in the definitive objectives and also the proposal for renovation on the details of capital, then I will be asking these things, but I would like to have clarification right now. Is this being officially considered now as an Arctic College wing without any discussion between the CEC and the Department of Education or the division board on Arctic College?

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 392

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, the way we're planning the capital program for Coral Harbour is, in fact, to identify it as an Arctic College wing.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Arvaluk.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 392

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When is this transfer or agreement to have this become an Arctic College wing going to come about? I was never informed. CEC was never informed. I got a letter from the community education council chairman asking how this ever happened that it now belongs to Arctic College. There are several government letters and statements respecting the east wing belonging to Arctic College, but there was never really an arrangement made with the community education council to do that. I guess my question would be when did that happen and in what form did it take place to officially declare it as an Arctic College wing?

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

The Chair Brian Lewis

Do you want to answer that, Mr. Minister?

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 392

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The agreement originally was that we would put extra classrooms in it, would add extra classrooms so that we could allow for the school to provide for the space that is in that particular wing for

Arctic College purposes. So we added and expanded the project itself and the resources.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

The Chair Brian Lewis

I don't think that fully answers the question but...Mr. Arvaluk.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 392

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you. No, it doesn't. I think the best approach will then be that the letter is addressed to the Honourable Richard Nerysoo, and I just have a carbon copy of it along with the director of Arctic College and the principal of the school. I would then ask the Minister if he will be responding to the CEC explaining by responding to this letter.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 392

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have already responded to Mr. Netser's letter within the last two weeks. I also provided a copy to Mr. Arvaluk, the Member for Aivilik. I'm not sure where it is, but a copy was sent to you for your information.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister. Mr. Arvaluk.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 392

James Arvaluk Aivilik

I usually remember stuff like that, especially coming from Coral Harbour. I haven't received anything, so can you ensure that I get one? Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 392

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I'll provide you an additional copy.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Arvaluk, are you finished? Okay. Questions, statements or comments of a general nature. Mr. Ningark.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll be very brief. Mr. Chairman, the concern I have comes from the Kitikmeot Divisional Board of Education. This is indirectly related to the area of capital planning within this government.

The Kitikmeot Regional Council has written to me during the spring of this year regarding housing of teaching staff in Gjoa Haven. Mr. Chairman, I am a supporter and a proponent of hiring locally, but sometimes circumstances beyond our control require us to import teaching staff from other jurisdictions.

According to the Kitikmeot Divisional Board of Education, if the teaching staff in Gjoa Haven is not given shelter in 1995-96, there are going to be some students who are not going to have teachers in that community. I'm wondering if the honourable Minister, in his capacity as the Minister, like that of the Kitikmeot Divisional Board of Education, is involved in overseeing or providing houses for teaching staff. This is part of the capital planning. Housing for teaching staff is part of the capital planning, it is in the area of education. Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just for the advice of honourable Members, while we do recruit the teachers, generally the responsibility for housing rests with

Personnel. I want to advise the honourable Member that we were requested to provide information about the housing needs for educators. We've done the assessment and provided the information to the Department of Personnel, and we will be reviewing them collectively to make some decisions as to where it is we're going to go with housing for teachers and educators throughout the Northwest Territories.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 393

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Ningark, are you finished? Anybody else? Mr. Pudlat.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 393

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Mr. Chairman, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment capital budget regarding the schools in the communities, I know they are getting higher grades these days. First of all, I am happy to see higher grades in the communities, and I am thankful for that, Mr. Chairman.

One of my communities, and it's my home town, will be planning on expanding our school because it's already too small. I know there have to be some programs regarding traditional ways of doing things like sewing or something like that. The Minister probably knows about these plans today because the Baffin Divisional Board of Education is planning to make some renovations or add on some classrooms to that school in my community. Perhaps the Minister could tell us if he received some documents from the Baffin Divisional Board of Education regarding the plan to renovate or add on to the school in my community. Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 393

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 393

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I can't recall, Mr. Chairman, whether or not I have received any information with regard to that particular project. I do want to indicate that the entire program for Lake Harbour has been identified, at least in our capital program, for 1998-99, but, again, it's a matter of meeting and dealing with the Baffin Divisional Board of Education to determine whether or not that's a priority that can be moved. We need to work with the divisional board and the CEC to deal with that.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 393

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thanks very much, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Pudlat, have you finished or do you have more questions? Okay. Comments, statements or questions of a general nature. Anybody else? Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 393

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just one final question. With regard to the opening comments on the department's programming, child care facilities, the Minister stated in his opening comments that although they have capital standards and criteria for child care facilities, he also said that there is no extra funding for construction of these new facilities. I know that the department is looking at, in some instances, including child care facilities in some of their high school renovations or school renovations that are being carried out. I would like to ask the Minister, if this is the case, how do they assess whether or not there's a child care facility required in the communities where these schools are being built. Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 393

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 393

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What we would do in those particular cases is to work with the divisional board and the CEC in addressing that particular matter.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 393

The Chair Brian Lewis

Have you concluded, Mr. Minister? Okay. Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 393

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Minister, when he says he will work with the divisional board or the CEC, would his department undertake to solicit whether or not it is required or would they wait and see if requests that come forward from these divisional boards or from the local CECs before they would take a look at that type of facility? Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As a department, we wouldn't get involved in soliciting that information. That is generally a responsibility that we now leave in the hands of the divisional boards or the boards to determine whether or not that's a need that needs to be met by our school programming.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Minister. I don't have a list as to who has made their opening comments yet, so, Mr. Dent next.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just another couple of questions or comments relating to the Minister's opening comments. I am just wondering if I could ask the Minister for an explanation of how the dollars were allocated in the Canada/NWT infrastructure program. I understand from his comments that it will be administered in a similar fashion to the NWT worker training fund. I assume that the distribution was done the same way, but I was just wondering if I could get, for the record, an explanation of the principles that were used in determining how to allocate the funds among the communities of the Northwest Territories.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Nerysoo, when you are ready.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Just one moment. We do have the formula and the basis by which we agreed to it. Generally, what we have to do is deal with the allocation nationally, and that was "not employed community" divided by "not employed NWT" times $3.5 million. I believe that is the basis on which the calculation was originally made.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Okay. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Was that formula used for every community?

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Yes.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Looking at the allocations, I see there were a number of communities where their number is $25,000 or $50,000 or $1 million, sort of even dollar figures, and I am just wondering, how, with the decimal in there, you could possibly

wind up with even dollar figures like that. So perhaps the Minister would like to tell me just where the math works here.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Do you want to try that one, Mr. Minister?

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Yes, Mr. Chairman, it was rounded off, and just for additional information that I failed to get out, the final allocations were based on results from the 1994 NWT labour force survey. The other thing is, the final allocation or the total available for program will also be adjusted to the distribution maximum share allocated to a community of $500,000, and the minimum share allocated to a community is $12,500.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Does that answer your question, Mr. Dent?

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Can the Minister tell me what, if there hadn't been a cap put on the formula, what Yellowknife would have qualified for?

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. No, Mr. Chairman. This will be a more serious response. I don't have that calculation here. What we did have was the calculations based on the initial document. I don't have it here.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, it is obvious that we're not going to go line by line today, so I wonder if I can ask the Minister to provide that information perhaps tomorrow when we get back into the budget?

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Well, I'll work with my colleague from FMBS to see what we can do to provide the information.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair Brian Lewis

Give it a try, though. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to make some comments that relate to the Minister's opening statement. I note that on page five, the Minister talks about new directions for the management and delivery of capital projects. I know the Member of Iqaluit has mentioned the success that the Yellowknife Catholic district has had in getting good value for money in its building project.

I would like to encourage this government and the department to very seriously consider block funding or community transfer. I just want the Minister to know that he will have my full support for those kinds of actions because I believe that we'll find that, typically, the school districts can do a better job of managing the projects locally than we can in the government.

I am also heartened to see right under the Minister's comment about that on page 5, that the department is taking a look at better use of existing facilities. It is encouraging to see. I don't know if there will be many young people out there who will be excited about the prospect of longer school days, but I think

the ideas for joint-use and shared facilities are things we really have to work on.

I would encourage the Minister -- and I think this plays right into something else that is happening tomorrow -- to not just to look at partnerships with school boards, Arctic College, museum boards and municipalities, but also with Health and Social Services and Justice.

There is no question that for something like partners for youth, the schools, themselves, don't provide the specialized people to deal with the youth who are at risk. What the schools provide are, perhaps, the coordination and the space. I think if we can get that lead taking place, we can achieve something really useful with young people in schools. The earlier we get into it, the better. We can't wait for high schools to get partners for youth going. We have to try to get that sort of program going in the elementary schools.

I am encouraged to see in the Minister's opening statement that he is willing to take a look at joint use like that, and I hope that includes the Departments of Health and Social Services and Justice. Having said that, I really hope we are going to see the Minister of Education, the Minister of Justice and, especially, the Minister of Health and Social Services at our SCOF meeting tomorrow at 10:30 am. I think there we'll hear how this program, which has been tried in Edmonton, is working.

Like other Members have said, this is just one idea for a program. There may be all sorts of ideas for programs. This is one that works, let's see if we can learn from it. I think the sort of things the Minister has talked about here will become possible if we can have everybody involved. Mr. Chairman, my closing general comments are strong invitations to the Minister of Health and Social Services, the Minister of Justice, and the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment and their deputy ministers, to attend the SCOF session tomorrow morning.

I think, at that, we will be able to really learn how to take advantage of sharing facilities, as the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment has recommended in his opening statements. Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 394

The Chair Brian Lewis

There is no question there, I don't believe. But, maybe you want to make a response, Mr. Minister?

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I thank the Member for giving me the opportunity to correct some misinterpretations that may exist. I have gone back over the discussions we had, even in the standing committee. I want to say that even during the committee sessions, I indicated that we supported the initiative the honourable Member and the standing committee recommended.

But, to be more specific, so that it is unequivocal, we have planned to put in place pilot projects for the 1995-96 school year, based on the recommendations that were given to us. What I think the misunderstandings are, is that we needed to bring together the partners you indicated we had to bring forward. I think it is not that we're not doing it. We are intending to do it, it is going to be part of the plan for the upcoming year. I think that is where the confusion lay. We are supportive and are going to proceed with it. I'm not sure if we are going to do two, or five, but we are going to pursue the initiative proposed by the Standing Committee on Finance.

What I needed to do was get clarification and an organization together. That's a detail that has not been resolved, so you're advised, Mr. Chairman, and your colleagues are, about that issue. The decision was already made. It was made long before the Standing Committee on Finance met and it is unfortunate that we did not provide you with the information. It would have probably changed how we were dealing with each other, but I wanted you to be aware of that.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 395

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Next on my list is Mr. Koe.

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Mr. Chairman, I move that we report progress.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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The Chair Brian Lewis

There has been a motion to report progress. It is not debatable. All those in favour?

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 395

The Chair Brian Lewis

The motion is in order. Do you want to vote on it? It is a motion to report progress. All those in favour?

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 395

An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
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Page 395

The Chair Brian Lewis

It is not a debate. It is just a vote. Motion is carried.

---Carried

I shall rise and report progress.

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An Hon. Member

Opposed.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

The majority have already voted in favour, but I would like to ask if there is anybody who opposes this motion. The motion is carried.

---Carried

I shall now rise and report progress to the Speaker.

Committee Motion 29-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

I will call the House back to order. Item 20, report of committee of the whole. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 395

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Your committee has been considering Committee Report 10-12(6) and Bill 1, and would like to report progress with two motions being adopted and, Madam Speaker, I move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 395

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Your motion is in order. Is there a seconder? The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng. To the motion.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 395

An Hon. Member

Question.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 21, third reading of bills. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi.

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nunakput, that Bill 6, Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act be read for the third time.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

An Hon. Member

Question.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

---Applause

Bill 6 has had third reading. Item 22, orders of the day, Mr. Clerk.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 395

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Madam Speaker, meetings for tomorrow at 9:00 of the Ordinary Members' Caucus and at 10:30 of the Standing Committee on Finance.

Orders of the day for Thursday, October 20th.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees 12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Tabled Document 14-12(6), "Open For Business"

Privatizing the Northwest Territories Power

Corporation

- Tabled Document 23-12(6), Report of the 1993-94

Electoral District Boundaries Commission

Northwest Territories

- Minister's Statement 11-12(6), Return to Session

- Committee Report 6-12(6), Report on the Review of

Bill 3 - Guardianship and Trusteeship Act

- Committee Report 10-12(6), Report on the Review

of the 1995-96 Capital Estimates

- Committee Report 11-12(6), Report on the First

Annual Report of the Languages Commissioner

of the NWT

- Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96

- Bill 2, Aboriginal Custom Adoption Recognition Act

- Bill 3, Guardianship and Trusteeship Act

- Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Arctic College Act

- Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 396

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. This House stands adjourned until Thursday, October 20th at 1:30 pm.

---ADJOURNMENT