Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 18 has had second reading and, accordingly, the bill stands referred to committee of the whole.

Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters.

Speaker's Ruling

Prior to going into committee of the whole, I wish to provide my ruling on a point of privilege raised by the Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson, on October 28th. Mr. Patterson's point of privilege was based on remarks made by the Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi, during consideration in committee of the whole of Bill 3, Guardianship and Trusteeship Act.

Mr. Patterson indicated in raising his point of privilege, which is contained on page 1472 of unedited Hansard: "I raised some questions of principle on the general intent of the bill. I was told that I was too late, that I was frivolous, that I was lecturing and that I hadn't done my homework." Mr. Patterson went on to request that I determine whether his privilege as an ordinary Member to debate fully at this stage of the bill had been infringed by the remarks and the attitude of the Minister of Justice, who was co-sponsoring the bill.

To rule on this matter, I reviewed the remarks that Mr. Patterson alleges the Minister of Justice made that may have infringed on the Member for Iqaluit's privileges as a Member. I reviewed nine pages of debate between Mr. Patterson and the Minister, Mr. Kakfwi. The debate is contained on pages 1464 to 1472 of unedited Hansard.

This chair found that the Minister did indicate on a number of occasions the following, as it related to Mr. Patterson's understanding of the proposed legislation and his advanced review of the bill in question. I quote comments by Minister Kakfwi, as contained on page 1466: "Maybe Mr. Patterson didn't read all of the legislation." Also, on page 1470: "The Member admits that he hasn't read it, he hasn't looked at the entirety of this legislation, but he had concerns." In addition, on page 1471: "As I have said, if the Member reads the legislation and goes through it clause by clause, and he allows the proposed amendment also to be moved and dealt with, I think we will see that the concerns, as he has stated them, are already taken care of in this legislation. But, we can't convince him if he doesn't know and he hasn't read the legislation. That's why I make the suggestion if, at the end of the day, after doing his homework and reading this legislation..."

I could also relay comments made on the matter of lecturing and being frivolous, but it is my opinion that there is no need to expand further on Mr. Kakfwi's comments to rule on this point of privilege. On ruling on a point of privilege, the chair must determine firstly if there appears to be a prima facie breach of privilege and, secondly, that the matter has been raised at the earliest opportunity.

As Members are aware, a question of privilege is usually raised only when a very serious act or omission occurs which impedes or obstructs the House or its Members in the performance of their duties. Reflection on Members can be a point of privilege if the events are of such serious significance as to fall within the definition of privilege.

I find that Beauchesne's 6th edition, citation 69 may be of assistance with this point and I would like to quote from Beauchesne: "The Speaker has reminded the House that it is very important to indicate that something can be inflammatory, can be disagreeable and even be offensive, but it may not be

a question of privilege unless the comments actually impinge upon the ability of the Members to do their job properly."

As indicated in reviewing the debate between Mr. Patterson and Mr. Kakfwi, I find that the Member for Iqaluit's basic right to fully debate the issue before committee of the whole was not infringed upon, as the unedited Hansard clearly indicates the debate did take place. On these grounds, I find that the Member for Iqaluit does not have a point of privilege. However, I did find that certain comments made by the Minister of Justice were of a provocative nature that could have led to a point of order.

Once again, I must caution all Members to be conscientious of comments made in debate so as to ensure that another Member doesn't misunderstand their comments and intentions. All Members have the right to raise issues of concern, thus ensuring that all sides of an issue are debated in a manner that maintains the dignity of the House and respect for each Member's point of view.

Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 14-12(6), "Open for Business" - Privatizing the Northwest Territories Power Corporation; Tabled Document 23-12(6), Report of the 1993-94 Electoral District Boundaries Commission Northwest Territories; Tabled Document 36-12(6), "Action Plan - Consolidation - Health and Social Services"; Minister's Statement 11-12(6), Return to Session; Committee Report 10-12(6), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Capital Estimates; Committee Report 11-12(6), Report on the First Annual Report (1992-93) of the Languages Commissioner of the NWT; Committee Report 13-12(6), Report on the Elimination of the Alcohol and Drug Board of Management; Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96; Bill 2, Aboriginal Custom Adoption Recognition Act; Bill 3, Guardianship and Trusteeship Act; Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Arctic College Act; Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act; and, Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, with Mr. Ningark in the chair.