Good morning. Item 2, budget address. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

1995-96 Capital Budget Address

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Good morning. Madam Speaker, we are approaching a three-day weekend, which will give Members time to abate the excitement I am about to generate today.

Madam Speaker, the 1995-96 capital budget is the fourth and probably the last capital budget of the current government. Over the last four years, the capital planning process underwent considerable change. Communities and Members of the Legislative Assembly were instrumental in developing a capital budget that better meets local needs and priorities. Gone are the days of centralized priority setting for community capital projects.

Madam Speaker, before discussing the capital budget, I will begin by bringing Members up to date on our fiscal situation. In February of this year, we forecast a deficit of $23 million for the 1993-94 fiscal year. In fact, Madam Speaker, the deficit for last year was $35 million. The primary reason for this revised fiscal position was a large increase in the calculated liability for employee ultimate removal benefits.

This year, it was primarily two areas of expenditure that caused us to revise the fiscal projection for 1994-95 from a balanced budget to a deficit of $35 million. The first expense was due to the federal government's continuing refusal to reinstate the over $45 million budget for social housing in the Northwest Territories.

Madam Speaker, we, as a government, could not ignore our social housing crisis in the Northwest Territories. As a result, we expended an additional $17 million of our own funding to deliver a modified social housing program.

This, Madam Speaker, was a conscious decision that was not taken lightly. Our decision recognizes the importance of a social housing program which we believe is a cornerstone to better health, better education and better social well-being of residents of the Northwest Territories. In addition, we took into account the positive impact this housing program has on our economy and on the labour market.

This is not to say, Madam Speaker, that we have merely stepped into the Government of Canada's shoes by providing this modified program. We are continuing to try to educate the federal government about the social housing crisis in the Northwest Territories. Regrettably, the federal government has yet to take notice of the argument that the provision of adequate social housing would promote long-term cost- savings in areas of health, social services and corrections.

Madam Speaker, I don't want people to think that there haven't been efforts made to convince the federal government. Mr. Morin, the Premier, myself, other Ministers, Members of this House and particularly our MPs have played a great role in trying to convince the federal government to reinstate this funding. Madam Speaker, we must continue to pressure the federal government to reinstate this funding. Because we have funded a modified social housing program this year and plan to do the same next year, doesn't mean that we are letting the federal government off the hook. This is clearly a responsibility that the federal government must ultimately live up to.

Secondly, Madam Speaker, the summer of 1994 was the worst and most costly forest fire season since the federal government transferred the responsibility for forestry in 1987. Forest fire fighting cost an extra $20 million this past summer, and there still may be some bills coming in, Madam Speaker, to the tune of another $2 or $3 million. Supplementary reserves will fund part of this requirement, but much of it will add to the forecast deficit for 1994-95. In this area, we have recognized that even though there was an increase in the amount of money spent to fight forest fires, concerns were still raised by residents and by communities about which fires should be fought, when they should be actioned, which areas should take priority, and how the fires should be fought.

Therefore, the Financial Management Board has asked the Honourable Silas Arngna'naaq, Minister responsible for the forestry program, to consult with communities on ways to improve the approach to forest fire fighting. As a government, Madam speaker, we hope to prevent these large infusions of funds in future years and, at the same time, address the community concerns that I have previously mentioned. We hope that the consultation process will help us to find solutions to address these concerns.

Madam Speaker, the fiscal outlook for 1995-96 does not appear to offer any relief. The current formula financing agreement with Canada expires on March 31, 1995.

Discussions on a new agreement are under way. However, the federal approach to the process has significantly diminished the options. This is reflected in a letter from the federal Finance Minister in which he states, "I have instructed my officials to ensure that the renewal discussions proceed from the premise that the new formula will either cost less, or at most, cost the same as the current formula."

Madam Speaker, international financial institutions have clearly stated that Canada's future depends heavily on the federal government's ability to reduce the deficit. As responsible politicians, it is difficult to argue with the objective of reducing Canada's deficit. However, we can, and do, take exception to the method through which the federal government is making funding cuts. The federal government continues to make cuts, as they did with social housing, without consulting us. Another example, Madam Speaker, would be the reduction of funding for language programs by over 30 per cent in 1994-95. This reductions puts the delivery of our official language services in jeopardy.

Madam Speaker, our message to the federal government is that it must not abandon the Northwest Territories to achieve its short-term fiscal objectives. Our message is that there will be future benefits for Canada in investing in the north and its people. The federal government already has a large investment in the north. It must be encouraged to protect that investment and to ensure the long-term financial viability of the north and its people. Canada must recognize that our efforts towards greater self-sufficiency will, over the long run, be good for us, as well as Canada as a whole.

Madam Speaker, our dependency on the federal government is too great. We must become more fiscally independent. In order to do so, the residents of the NWT must cooperate with each other to approach the federal government with a united position, and that's regardless of the subject, Madam Speaker. For the federal government's part, they should be receptive to these positions and should support our efforts by setting the proper fiscal environment through the arrangements that they make with us.

Again, Madam Speaker, as I said in February, the current rate of revenue growth is insufficient to finance new spending. New dollars are required to meet the demands placed upon us by the basic needs of our constituents. These demands, whether they be for assistance to business, social programs, infrastructure or transportation, cost money. One of the ways to find these new monies would be to gain control of our resources. Although progress is being made by the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, Madam Speaker, with regard to the devolution of oil and gas and minerals, ownership and control of Northwest Territories non-renewable resources still lies with the federal government.

Until such time that we gain control over these areas, none of the associated royalties -- whether they be in place now or whether they be future royalties -- will flow to the Government of the Northwest Territories. Collectively, Madam Speaker, we must make every effort to arrive at an arrangement whereby the territorial government takes over responsibility for oil, gas and minerals in order to gain the benefits of the revenues from those commodities. Madam Speaker, if we're regaining those benefits, they could be then spread across the Northwest Territories, for whatever requirements may exist in particular regions, and they do vary across the Northwest Territories. I reiterate, Madam Speaker, those revenues are not presently available to us under the existing arrangements, nor will they be available to us in the future under the existing arrangements.

Madam Speaker, we are faced with the same fiscal challenges as every other Canadian jurisdiction and our limited revenue-raising options lead us once again to turn to expenditure restraint. The impact of restraint must be fairly distributed taking into account the government's obligation to meet its residents' basic needs and protect those most at risk. At the same time, we must not fall into the trap of sacrificing our long-term goals for short-term fiscal relief.

The government will have to phase in spending reductions to deal with its financial situation. The federal Finance Minister's October update on Canada's fiscal position could, I say regretfully, Madam Speaker, further impact on our already bleak outlook. In addition, we have yet to assess the impact of Minister Axworthy's initiative to restructure the social safety net.

Madam Speaker, the size of the financial problem we face is too large for any one solution. We continue to look carefully at all aspects of our government's spending. Over the course of the past summer and into early fall, the government has been doing just that. We are determined to have program action plans that can be considered in conjunction with the 1995-96 main estimates.

Program cutbacks are always difficult, Madam Speaker, but may be necessary.

Madam Speaker, the largest single component of our operating costs is salaries and wages. The February budget speech identified the need to rationalize the $400 million cost of the public service. This year, the government entered into negotiations with the Northwest Territories Teachers' Association and the Union of Northern Workers. The government's approach was to be realistic within the context of today's financial realities and labour environment.

Madam Speaker, we have just completed a Northwest Territories public sector wage survey, with the input of 152 public sector employers including band councils and school boards. This survey shows that there is a wide disparity in the compensation package of the various public sector employers. Madam Speaker, you may recall that it was non-salary benefits that the February budget speech identified as an area to be researched. The results of the survey support the concern that non-salary benefits are the greatest area of discrepancy between Government of the Northwest Territories employees and other Northwest Territories public sector employees. In the area of non-salary benefits, the difference between the two groups was found to be 41 per cent.

Madam Speaker, in February, I noted that we have a history in the Northwest Territories of resolving difficult problems together. This confidence in our employees and their representatives was validated when the government and the Northwest Territories Teachers' Association signed a new two-year agreement in July. This was a responsible agreement that recognized the financial situation of the government. The agreement provided for a zero per cent increase in salaries for two years and introduced long-overdue modifications to vacation travel assistance and also to removals and severance pay. Considering the types of roll-backs that are occurring in other jurisdictions, this, we believe, was a reasonable settlement.

Madam Speaker, I am announcing today that the government has approved the same provisions for the management and excluded categories of employees as those accepted by the Northwest Territories Teachers' Association. This means that these employees will receive a zero per cent salary increase for two years and identical vacation travel assistance, removal and severance pay modifications as negotiated with the Northwest Territories Teachers' Association. Madam Speaker, there are approximately 900 employees in the management and excluded group.

The negotiations with the Union of Northern Workers for the main group of employees are still under way. I am confident that a responsible collective agreement can also be negotiated with the employees represented by the Union of Northern Workers.

Now, onto the capital budget, Madam Speaker. The 1995-96 capital estimates propose spending of close to $195 million. This maintains the level of capital spending undertaken in 1994-95, including temporary funding to partially offset the federal funding reductions for social housing. As a result, the Honourable Don Morin will be delivering a social housing capital program in 1995-96 of $49 million.

The government has made the difficult decision to maintain the level of capital spending for 1995-96, even though our financial situation has deteriorated. This decision was based on the reality that the capital plan is more than just the means to acquire and build assets. The capital plan is a major economic and social policy tool. The capital plan represents jobs. It represents the major business opportunity for the year in many of our small communities, it represents needed training opportunities and lastly, it represents the means to improve the qualify of life in our communities, primarily for our youth, our elderly and for those in need.

Nevertheless, the long-term financial stability of the Northwest Territories will require that our capital programs be subjected to the same degree of scrutiny and justification that is being applied to all programs of the government. In recognition of this, the government has initiated a comprehensive review of its capital standards and criteria. This review will:

-examine existing capital standards and criteria that establish eligibility criteria and construction standards to consider how they can be adjusted to better serve program objectives and be delivered with less money;

-examine program alternatives to acquiring or building additional physical infrastructure;

-examine the government's approach to project design to determine if there are more cost-effective alternatives; and

-examine the government's project approval and management practices to identify methods to speed up the tender and contract award process.

It is anticipated that this work will be completed by next year and be available for consideration by the new government in the development of the 1997-98 capital plan.

Madam Speaker, I would point out that it's very difficult to make changes to the capital plan because we're on a three-year cycle with communities and we certainly don't want to lessen the expectation of those communities or break any of the promises that we've made to those communities. That's why it's going to take some time to look at these particular areas.

Madam Speaker, I mentioned that the capital plan is a major economic tool. In 1994-95, 582 new contracts have been let to date with a total value of approximately $100 million. Of this number, $537,000 went to northern contractors with a value of $94.5 million. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that's 94.5 per cent of the value of contracts, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, Members of this House requested greater disclosure of negotiated contracts. In response to this request, the Premier has provided the Standing Committee on Finance a detailed listing of all negotiated contracts since the spring of 1993. Madam Speaker, I realize that people want more details, but until those contracts have been completed and have been analyzed, some of those finer details may not be available. Madam Speaker, this listing identifies that over the past 18 months there have been approximately 50 negotiated contracts for acquisitions or construction totalling in value over $15 million. Almost every one of these negotiated contracts has been with aboriginal or community development corporations.

As was identified in the capital budget address last year, negotiated contracts provide northern organizations with the opportunity to develop experience and reputation for performance. These contractors are still required to provide full value for money.

Madam Speaker, a new innovation in our capital program is the building and learning strategy, cosponsored by the Honourable Richard Nerysoo and the Honourable Don Morin. This is a program whereby community people can get certifiable training in building occupations using capital projects in their community. In 1994-95, the building and learning strategy approach was applied to projects in 12 communities. Currently, 100 local residents are being trained on these projects, compared to 46 trained in the 1993-94 pilot projects. The scope of the program for 1995-96 is currently being developed.

Education and training are also strongly supported in this capital budget. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment, under the direction of the Honourable Richard Nerysoo, will complete construction on three new schools in Igloolik, Coppermine and Yellowknife. Construction or major renovations will start on 15 school projects throughout the Northwest Territories. In addition, 1995-96 will see the completion of the new $8.4 million applied arts building on Arctic College's Thebacha Campus in Fort Smith.

Adult education facilities are also entering the planning phase for Cambridge Bay and Taloyoak.

The Honourable John Todd is bringing forward an aggressive transportation capital plan for 1995-96. There is $19 million in the budget for reconstruction of highways in the Fort Smith and Inuvik regions. The Nahanni Butte airport will be relocated and the Cape Dorset airport terminal will be replaced.

Under the five-year $20 million cost-shared strategic transportation initiative agreement with Canada, construction will be completed on the airport upgrades in Lutsel K'e, Snare Lake, Fort Good Hope and Pelly Bay, while construction will commence on the airport upgrade at Deline. On the marine side, construction is scheduled for the Pangnirtung harbour and the Coral Harbour breakwater.

There is $3.5 million proposed for investment in the Northwest Territories tourism and parks infrastructure, along with an additional $4.9 million to be directed to the development and diversification of the Northwest Territories business sector through the NWT Development Corporation investments.

Madam Speaker, under the guidance of our Premier, the Honourable Nellie Cournoyea, the Department of Health and Social Services and its boards and agencies will complete planning for the Inuvik and Iqaluit hospital replacements as well as construction on health centres in Fort Providence and Clyde River. Construction will commence on the Gjoa Haven health centre while health stations will be completed in Jean Marie River, Snare Lake and Trout Lake. In total, the Department of Health and Social Services capital budget will be $10.4 million.

The Honourable Rebecca Mike, Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs is sponsoring a $40 million capital program which includes: $12 million for water and sewer projects; $10 million for road, site and land development; $4 million for municipal buildings; and, $7 million for recreation facilities.

Madam Speaker, two other major capital undertakings for 1995-96 do not show in the capital budget. These are the projects under the two-year $10.8 million cost-shared national infrastructure program agreement with Canada that was signed on August 24th of this year. This program provides contributions to communities to deliver programs that provide community infrastructure while generating employment and training. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment will deliver the program in all Northwest Territories communities during 1994-95 and 1995-96. The Government of the Northwest Territories share of funding for this program will be obtained from within the proposed 1994-95 and 1995-96 capital funding levels through savings generated from taking specific cost-saving approaches to construction of planned capital projects.

Madam Speaker, the second major undertaking that is not reflected in the capital budget is the corrections capital plan. Over the last few years, the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi has been developing a plan for rationalizing correctional facilities in the Northwest Territories. This was in order to address the space shortages that we're experiencing at the present time. Recently, Mr. Kakfwi brought forward a facility needs assessment for corrections. On the basis of this assessment, the Financial Management Board has authorized the Department of Justice to develop a construction plan within a funding target of $3 million for 1995-96, rising to $4 million for 1996-97 and $5 million for 1997-98. Mr. Kakfwi will be bringing forward a capital plan to the Financial Management Board shortly. Madam Speaker, as soon as we have looked at it, we will be passing it on to the Standing Committee on Finance.

Madam Speaker, this has been a difficult capital budget to prepare. We do face tough times. And, Madam Speaker, I've probably sounded like there's a lot of doom and gloom today, but the situation is not unmanageable. If it were not for the fact that we were filling the federal government's shoes, as I said before, with regard to capital funding for social housing, our budget wouldn't be in that much difficulty. If it wasn't for the fact that we're experiencing these cutbacks, because the GDP is not growing at the rate that we anticipated, if our formula wasn't so constrictive, we would be able to be living within our means.

So it's not as bleak as I've painted, but I do send a warning to this House and I send a warning to people in the Northwest Territories that tougher times are coming and we have to be very careful about the dollars we spend. I recognize the pressures that are upon MLAs from all kinds of different groups; from communities, from individuals who are requesting this particular expenditure or that particular expenditure. Somehow, collectively, we have to priorize those requests and come together and make some coordinated approach to controlling our fiscal outlay. As I said before, when Mr. Martin is done in the next budget session, it may be more difficult than we anticipate, Madam Speaker.

So as I said, we need everybody's support and contribution to keep programs and services flowing to those in need. I am confident that we will receive that support, Madam Speaker.

I will conclude by thanking the communities, who assisted with the capital budget, for their input; Members of the Legislative Assembly who also contributed their input to this budget; the Standing Committee on Finance for their direction and their suggestions; and, the Ministers for their input and assistance in putting together this capital plan. Their collective input has been critical to the development of a capital plan that provides urgently needed facilities relative to training opportunities for local business and jobs for Northwest Territories residents.

Madam Speaker, at the appropriate time I will submit the 1995-96 capital estimates to the Legislative Assembly for its consideration. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you. Before we go on, I would like to recognize in the Speaker's gallery, Mayor Larry Aknavigak, mayor of Cambridge Bay, along with his daughter. Welcome to our Assembly.

---Applause

Item 3, Ministers' statements. Madam Premier.

Madam Speaker, as Members know, the Northwest Territories Power Corporation and the

Dogrib Power Corporation are involved in a joint venture to develop a hydro dam at Snare Cascades. Once completed, the Power Corporation will lease and operate the facility as part of the Snare/Yellowknife system serving the city of Yellowknife, Royal Oak Mine, Miramar Con Mine, Rae-Edzo and Dettah.

I am pleased to report that the details of financing the project have been finalized; that the contractor is currently on site; that the manufacture of the turbine -- a major component of the dam -- is under way; and, that the engineering and design phases of this project are proceeding. Madam Speaker, construction of this multi-million dollar facility is scheduled to begin in April and I understand that a ground-breaking ceremony is scheduled for October 12th.

Madam Speaker, the Dogrib Nation, through the efforts of the Dogrib Power Corporation, deserve our congratulations for bringing this major project to its current state. By July, 1996, the customers served by the Snare/Yellowknife system can look forward to a new, environmentally-friendly source of hydro power that will assist in the development of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Ministers' statements. Item 4, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Zoe.

Thank you. Item 4, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to express my gratitude and, in doing so, represent my constituency of Lake Harbour. Fairly late this spring and early this summer, the Finance committee came over to Lake Harbour to hold a meeting. I wanted to express my gratitude for them coming over. I'm sure my community now has a better understanding of how the committees work.

I would like to express my gratitude to the Ministers and I would encourage them to come and visit our community as well. Thank you, Madam Speaker. That is all I have to say for my Member's statement. I will have more to say during oral questions.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 4, Members' statements. The honourable Member for High Arctic, Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a concern from my constituency that I would like to express. It concerns the seals being studied in our region. For over a year now, a survey has been conducted around the Resolute area. The seals are being handled manually in the springtime, usually in the months of April and May.

The studies are being conducted very close to the communities. Sometimes they go out to areas further away, but usually they stay within the ice floes close to the communities. Many people, of course, go seal hunting and the scientists are coming too close to the hunting areas. In the hunting areas, the seals are not reproducing any more. Pups are becoming more scarce; this has been noticed by Resolute people. People of Resolute have requested that something be done to keep the scientists from coming too close to the areas where people usually do their sealing. It would improve the pup growth rate. People have noticed a significant change in the numbers of pups.

Further on this morning, or in the afternoon, I will produce a document, a letter from the HTA of Resolute. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Item 4, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Today, I rise in this House to speak about housing. Yesterday, I mentioned that the federal government is continuing to reduce funding support to the Northwest Territories in a number of areas. One of the most critical areas of funding cuts is support for social housing.

Madam Speaker, people in my constituency need funding support for housing. The federal government has the fiduciary responsibility to provide this support. It was part of the treaty made in 1921 by my ancestors. I understand that the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation and our federal Members of Parliament have been working very hard to convince the federal government to reinstate this funding support. So far, these efforts have not been successful.

In the meantime, people in the communities have been allocated fewer housing units. In addition, I'm told that the number of staff in the Housing Corporation has not decreased. In fact, it seems that some positions may even have been added. It doesn't make sense, Madam Speaker, that funding from the federal government has been cut, fewer housing units are being allocated to communities, and yet the size of the bureaucracy responsible for delivering the programs remains the same.

It seems to me that we need to look at new ways to deliver programs. Maybe we also need new ways to find out what people in the communities really want and need. They need to have a say in how services are delivered in our communities. It may be that standards are too high. Maybe it would be more cost- beneficial to build smaller houses, but to build more of them. Maybe the standards should be more flexible so that the communities can make more decisions for themselves.

Madam Speaker, I strongly urge the government to examine the way the housing program is being delivered and to find new ways of meeting the housing needs of our citizens. In looking for innovative ways to deliver the housing program, the government must keep in mind the reduced funding and that people in the communities must be involved in the decisions that affect their lives every day. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 4, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I rise today to talk a bit about tourism and tourism development, especially in the western Arctic. We are all aware that the oil and gas industry is not a major player now in the western Arctic. They basically moved out and shut down their camps. The only industry, if we can call it quasi-industry, is government. As the Minister mentioned today, the government

plays a major role in keeping people in the communities busy through their capital estimates.

But in the western Arctic, tourism is a growth industry. We have major attractions now throughout most of our communities. We have a lot of natural attractions that people across the world are coming to the north, especially the western Arctic, to experience. The other major attraction in the western Arctic -- an experience, I guess -- is the Dempster Highway. We're finding a lot more road traffic travelling up the Dempster Highway.

I had the privilege this summer of travelling the Dempster to see for myself the conditions of the road and also an opportunity to look at some of the parks and the sites and talk to some of our travellers who come from different parts of the world. The majority of them come up and they all have favourable comments other than it's a long drive. They're disappointed once they get to Inuvik; they want to drive all the way to the coast to Tuktoyaktuk so they can dip their toes in the Arctic Ocean.

I fully support the Minister of Transportation's initiatives, in looking at our highways and seeing that there is some money in the capital budget for improving the Dempster Highway. We have a lot of attractions in the western Arctic. We have renewed interest in tourism. There's a revised group -- the Western Arctic Tourism Association. They have a new executive director and the communities are involved...

Excuse me, Mr. Koe, your last few statements didn't get on the record.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statements.

The honourable Member for Inuvik is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Continue, Mr. Koe.

Okay, Mahsi. I just want to conclude by saying that there's a renewed interest in the development of tourism. The Western Arctic Tourism Association has been revised. They have a new executive director. There are members of all the communities involved. There's renewed interest between the Yukon and the Northwest Territories. I wish the association and all the tourism operators in the western Arctic all the best in their future endeavours. Mahsi.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 4, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Aivilik, Mr. Arvaluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. At the appropriate time today, I will be tabling two letters I have received here in the Legislative Assembly. One is addressed to the Honourable Don Morin, Minister of Housing Corporation, from Mayor John Kaunak of Repulse Bay and the other is to Mayor Kaunak from Dr. M.B.K. Moffatt, paediatric consultant from the University of Manitoba. They both deal with the

problem of alcohol and drugs being supplied to the community by outside building contractors and other transients in the summertime. (Translation ends)

The authors of the letters are very concerned about the fact that alcohol and drugs are being made available to teenagers, in particular. Problems such as impulsive behaviour that leads to suicide and injuries are cited. We all know how many problems we have in our community that can be attributed to alcohol and drugs: violence; suicide; family breakups; unplanned pregnancies; and, social diseases, et cetera.

We do not need extra imported problems in our community as described in the two letters. Most of us can recall examples of serious incidents that have occurred in small communities that resulted from alcohol and drugs that were brought in by outside construction companies.

The hamlet of Repulse Bay is asking the Minister of Housing not to award any more contracts to one company in particular, because of its unacceptable behaviour and lack of response to pleas from the hamlet to act responsibly. I will be pursuing this matter with the Minister of Housing at question period. Qujannamiik.

Thank you. Item 4, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise today to speak on an important topic to myself and several of my constituents. It is October and there is no baseball on television. Madam Speaker, for the past few weeks, we have heard the owners complain that the players want too much money and the players complain that each of the 28 major league owners have their own agenda that prevents them from working together. It kind of reminds me of this place sometimes, Madam Speaker, with salary caps and hidden agendas. We, however, have 58,000 owners.

But seriously, Madam Speaker, I feel there is a far darker cloud than two sides of a labour dispute that cannot agree on how to divide the spoils. The plot may indeed reach all the way to the White House.

Madam Speaker, the simple reason there is no world series this year are the Montreal Expos. I do not think that the upper echelon of American society could stand to see their national past-time's greatest honour go to a Canadian team for a third year in a row.

---Applause

Even though because of the strike, major league baseball announced yesterday that the Toronto Bluejays remain world champions, I still think there is a plot. Madam Speaker, I can't prove these allegations, but maybe the Premier could use some of her pull with CSIS or the RCMP to do some investigation.

---Laughter

---Applause

I would like to ask the House, Madam Speaker, to join me in congratulating the Montreal Expos for winning the national league eastern pennant for having the best record in baseball and for being Canada's unofficial world series champion. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 4, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I stand today to express my gratitude to the Members of the Advisory Committee on Social Housing that came to Taloyoak on September 23rd to 25th; Mr. Don Morin, the Minister for Housing, who is also the chairperson of the Advisory Committee for Social Housing; Sam Gargan, the deputy chairman of the advisory committee; Tony Whitford; Dennis Patterson; James Arvaluk; and, Titus Allooloo.

Madam Speaker, the community of Taloyoak was very, very proud to have these Members from the Advisory Committee on Social Housing, especially the Members from the western Arctic. Madam Speaker, I hope we will have another committee of the Legislature meet in the Kitikmeot region. To all the Members of the Advisory Committee on Social Housing, thank you very much from the community of Taloyoak. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 4, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, as we all know, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and His Royal Highness Prince Philip, were in the NWT from August 20th to the 22nd. I was pleased, on behalf of my constituents, to receive Her Majesty's words of wisdom at the Legislative Assembly.

Like the majority of Nunavut Caucus Members, I also had the opportunity to participate during the royal couple's visit to Nunavut and Rankin Inlet on August 22nd. We also know of their visit to Iqaluit, which was their point of departure from Canada. Many individuals and volunteers were involved in organizing, assisting and participating in the NWT visit of the royal couple.

Madam Speaker, at this time, I wish to acknowledge and recognize those from my constituency. Canadian Rangers from Cambridge Bay: George Angohiatok; Sam Ehaloak; Allen Elatiak; Jimmy Haniliak, George Kavana; Allen Kitigon; and, Doug Stern. Canadian Rangers from Coppermine: Bobby Etoktok, George Hala; Angus Havioyak; Colin Havioyak; Roger Hitkoluk; and, Bubba Pedersen.

I also wish to acknowledge Mrs. Marion Glawson of Economic Development and Tourism from Cambridge Bay, who was part of the Rankin Inlet organizing committee. Finally, Mr. Attima Hadlari, who performed during the royal visit in Rankin Inlet.

Madam Speaker, I ask all Members to join me in congratulating and thanking these and all other individuals involved in making the 1994 NWT royal visit a success. Mahsi.

---Applause

Thank you, Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife south, Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Item 4, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

I rise today, Madam Speaker, to deal with a very personal and sensitive issue. I was discouraged by my colleagues to raise this issue today. It is something that I have not discussed very much. But today, I would like to point out that the press very often can cause conflict between man and wife.

My wife has been the manager of my household ever since we were married 31 years ago. She prepares my tax returns before they go to my accountant and he just rubber-stamps them because they are always right. Madam Speaker, I have the dubious honour, according to the media, of being the lowest paid Member of this Assembly.

---Applause

I didn't know how I could put a good, positive spin on that fact. Since Mr. Gargan has raised the business of salaries and salary caps, it makes me pause to reflect that maybe the amount of money one gets in return for one's work is not a true reflection of the amount of work that one does and the value of the individual.

So I had to explain that to my wife. I should also point out to the media that the official piece of paper I take from my employer is called a T-4. My T-4 reflects an amount that is less $70,000. My take-home pay, according to my last paycheque of the last fiscal year, was $30,000. I can live on that because I am a man of modest tastes, very moderate and frugal...

---Laughter

...and I live quite simply. I should point out to the media that it is the job of this House to try to present facts so that people can understand them. We know we are elected to take other people's abuse. That is part of the job. But when you do it, you should make sure the facts that you use are facts that are real, not bloated information...

---Applause

...that the public then uses to further inflict injury on their elected people.

---Laughter

Hear, hear.

Madam Speaker, I seek consent to continue my statement.

Agreed.

---Agreed

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue with his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Continue, Mr. Lewis.

Madam Speaker, I have been faithful to my wife for 31 years.

---Applause

I am not hiding anything from her. It is not true that I made close to $89,000 last year. I shouldn't have to explain to her what I did with the other $20,000.

---Laughter

I don't have anyone that I have to look after beyond the kids in my household.

---Laughter

The money that I get I earn honestly and does not reflect the amount of money that I was paid at other stages in my career in the past. I do the work because I enjoy the work. I enjoy public service. I don't mind taking abuse. I am used to it. However, I am used to people dealing with me in a fair, straightforward, honest fashion. I wish that when we table information in the House, people would do their homework to find out exactly what it is that my employer says I earn and which I am accountable to Revenue Canada to pay taxes on. That is what I earn and that is what is not contained in the document that was tabled last week. It is unfortunate that members of the public now want to ask me why it is we make so much money. Quite frankly, $89,000 is a lot of money. There are not that many people who make that kind of money. I don't make it and other Members in this House don't make it. If they were to see the T-4 that every one of us has to submit to pay taxes every year, they would know exactly what it is that we get in the way of earnings. The rest of it are expenses, which other businesses and other people also have to incur on behalf of the people they work for.

Hear, hear.

---Applause

Item 4, Members' statements. Item 5, returns to oral questions. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for Madam Premier and it is with respect to the policy that the government has for departments to relay non-confidential government information to Members. Does the government have a policy respecting the passing of information to Members requesting it at the regional office level? Thank you.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Madam Speaker, perhaps the Member could further clarify what type of information he is requesting. As the Member knows, we have a policy in various departments about what is permissible to release. There is confidential information in various departments, portfolios and programs. There are policies about what is to be kept confidential. I would request further clarification. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary, Madam Speaker. I am speaking about information that is non-confidential, things like government programs, costs of operating government facilities, those types of things that would normally be public information. Thank you.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Madam Speaker, information on matters of program information and of a non-confidential nature, according to general policy and practice, is available to Members of this Legislative Assembly, whether it is at a community, regional or head office level. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to clarify, when a Member requests information at a regional level, does that information have to be cleared through headquarters, or can it be released at the regional level to Members requesting this information? Thank you.

Madam Premier.

Madam Speaker, I would suggest that any information of a non-confidential nature that has been requested by a Member of the Legislative Assembly at the regional level would not require further approval from head office, unless there is some question at the regional level about whether certain information is confidential or not yet ready for release. Oft-times in government work, there are some areas where the head office would say, in an area of a development program, that work is not conclusive. So, that may be an area where a person would contact head office to see if the information is ready for release, but, by and large, there should be no hesitation to release information at the regional level.

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Final supplementary. In some instances, I've encountered difficulties with certain departments in releasing information, where they say that approval must come from the Minister and where I'm

requesting non-confidential public information. I would like to ask, is it up to the individual Ministers to decide whether that information must be released, under their signature? Thank you.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Madam Speaker, if there is public information being requested, I see no reason why that should be denied to a Member of the Legislative Assembly. If there are circumstances where the Member has a concern about information being held back, I would be very pleased to address those specific issues. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I have a question for the Premier. Wednesday, October 5th was the last day of Commissioner Dan Norris' term as Commissioner of the Northwest Territories. Since that date, the Deputy Commissioner, Helen Maksagak, has been acting in his stead. Is the Premier aware if a decision has been made regarding the selection of a new Commissioner?

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Madam Speaker, as of 9:45 this morning, no decision had been made. Since we've come to this House, I don't know. As far as I understand, the Minister of Indian Affairs has concluded that he will need a little more time to make a final decision. Helen Maksagak will be Acting Commissioner until such time as that decision has been made. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

The Premier indicated that it would take a little bit more time. I would like to ask the Premier when the announcement of a new Commissioner will be made? Is there a specific time frame for that? Thank you.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Madam Speaker, I have no control or influence in telling the Minister of Indian Affairs, Mr. Ron Irwin, when to make a decision. He has not conveyed to me when he will make that decision. I know he wants to. As of right now, we have processed everything required of us and forwarded the information to the Honourable Minister of Indian Affairs. It is entirely in his jurisdiction right now to make a decision on that matter. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Justice regarding his intention to invite the honourable Ron Irwin to address the Assembly. I would like to ask the Minister exactly what is the intended purpose of the appearance of Mr. Irwin?

Thank you. Minister of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Point of order, Mr. Gargan.

Point Of Order

Madam Speaker, is my question out of order?

Mr. Gargan, your question is not out of order, but I should caution you that that motion is on the order paper for today and it can be discussed today at the prerogative of the mover of the motion. We all know that motions have two days, which would be today and Tuesday, for discussion. Since the motion is on the order paper, your questioning should be cautious, depending on whether your question can be debated. I'm saying that your question is not out of order, depending on how you phrase the question.

The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you. I understood the response that the Minister gave, that there are a number of issues and concerns that the Cabinet and this House would like to address with Mr. Irwin. Has the Minister of Justice been in contact with Mr. Irwin regarding potential issues and agenda items for discussion?

Thank you. Minister of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, under our rules we cannot ask questions regarding motions. You can speak to the motion, that's the reason why I've been asking the questions the way I've been asking them, so it doesn't have an impact on whatever the motion is. I have not referred to the motion at all. I would like to ask the Minister whether the discussions in committee of the whole will be structured and limited to only those items that the Minister wishes to talk about, or can we ask questions following his presentation?

Mr. Gargan, just reviewing the motion placed on the order paper for today, in determining your question and I just want to indicate to the Members of the House that the motion does read: "Whereas the Legislative Assembly has requested the Premier and Minister of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs to follow up and seek clarification from the Prime Minister and DIAND Minister on federal policies and initiatives relating to division of the Northwest Territories public and aboriginal government and devolution."

It seems to me, Mr. Gargan, that within this particular paragraph there is a possibility to seek clarification from possibly the questions that you may be wanting to ask of the Minister today. So, anticipating that, I feel that your question may be answered within the motion that is being posed. Therefore, I would like to ask you to rephrase your question so that it does not reflect anticipated discussions that this motion is presenting to our House and being discussed today. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you. I'll rephrase my last question, then. Madam Speaker, in committee of the whole the rules are quite open with regard to asking questions back and forth between the witnesses in committee of the whole and Members here. I would like to ask the Minister whether that same type of arrangement is going to be used when Mr. Irwin appears as a witness.

Unfortunately, Mr. Gargan, I have to rule your question out of order. On the last portion of our motion it states "Now therefore I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Nunakput, that the Speaker be authorized to invite the Honourable Ron Irwin, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, to appear before the Legislative Assembly in committee of the whole on a date certain convenient to the Minister and the Speaker."

In the event this motion passes in the House, it will allow the Minister to appear in committee of the whole. Therefore, your question is anticipating the same type of reply that this motion is on the order paper for today. Therefore, I have to rule your supplementary question out of order.

---Ruled Out Of Order

Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, on August 24, 1994, there was a joint news release issued by the federal Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Honourable Marcel Masse, and the Government of the Northwest Territories Finance Minister, John Pollard. It's a federal/territorial plan aimed at making government work better. Just listening to today's budget address, I didn't hear the Minister of Finance make any reference to this news release and to this initiative of improving the efficiency of government. My question to the Minister of Finance is can he briefly explain what this new arrangement is, which is aimed at making government work better.

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, for some years now the federal Finance Minister has been imparting to his provincial and territorial counterparts that there's a lot of overlap and duplication in Canada. I think it was estimated some years ago at some $5 billion. The Premiers, along with the Prime Minister of Canada looked at this situation and asked Ministers to start looking at the problem. When the new government came into place they really put some good store in this overlap and duplication area, and appointed Mr. Masse as their Minister for overlap and duplication.

Madam Premier asked me to look at this on behalf of the Northwest Territories. Consequently, the federal Minister has been making arrangements with different jurisdictions across Canada on how to look at overlap and duplication within our particular jurisdictions.

The agreement that we signed is the first step towards identifying areas where maybe the federal government and the territorial government are doing the same or similar things. It didn't go quite as far as we would have liked it to go, but certainly it's a move in the right direction. I'll be glad to provide a copy of the agreement to Members of the House, Madam Speaker. In fact, I'll table it in this House. Then Members can look at the fine print.

But, in general, it's to look at where there's overlap and duplication between the two governments in order to get some efficiency. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. What specific initiatives are being looked at currently?

Thank you. Mr. Pollard.

Madam Speaker, one of the areas that we've been suggesting is the environmental area; we've looked at regulation of industry, there have been complaints from the mining industry with regard to all the hoops they have to jump through from different areas of regulation. So we're continuing to look at those particular areas. As I say, I'll get a copy of the agreement and you can see specifically other areas where we've reached agreement. I'm sorry, I don't have the agreement with me, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Who, specifically, in our government has been working on these initiatives, or is it a combination of people throughout the territories doing some of the specific things that are looking at improving the efficiency of government?

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Madam Speaker, it's been the deputy minister of Finance, Mr. Eric Nielsen, who has been heading up the negotiations and the discussions. And, as required, other members from the different departments have been involved. All of the departments were polled and asked for their input as to where they saw areas that we could examine and explore. As I say, Mr. Nielsen coordinated the effort and used whatever expertise from different departments that he required at particular times. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. There are obviously many different people and many departments involved in this initiative and I would hope they're all involved because they're all part of government. We all know that, in a lot of cases, we have to improve our efficiency and effectiveness in delivering programs. What time frame are you looking at in achieving some of these initiatives?

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Madam Speaker, Mr. Masse is anxious to move very quickly. They want to start out in small ways with small strides and conclude them as soon as possible. It may require us going outside of government to negotiate or to at least discuss with other people who may be affected by some of these moves. Depending on how much time we have to spend discussing it in the Northwest Territories, which I think is very important, I would say we should start to see some improvement within the next 12 months, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Aivilik, Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Housing. Earlier I spoke about the concern that has been expressed by the hamlet of Repulse Bay and the paediatric consultant who has been doing work in that area for the past 11 years, about the problem of alcohol and drugs being supplied by the outside building contractors.

Surely the Minister has been made aware of this, like the rest of us, in the past. My question is, what has the Minister found out about the situation?

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am aware of this issue of alcohol and drug use in Repulse Bay and the concern the community raised through their local MLA to bring it to our attention. The district manager of that region has met with the mayor of Repulse Bay. They have met with the contractors in the community to express the concern the community raised. The Housing Corporation district staff will be monitoring the contracts in that area, as well as the whole region, to try to ensure that they don't bring alcohol or drugs into the communities. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The hamlet of Coral Harbour pleaded, as in my statement, with that particular company over the summer and they have not changed their attitude and behaviour in that regard. I don't know if monitoring will result in any improvement.

My question then is, is there a way to deal with such issues where the contractor is acting irresponsibly in the community when, in fact, they've been told not to? Thank you.

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We have made the contractors aware of the concerns the community has about the alcohol and drug problems they do have in that community. We have tried out best to encourage the contractors and any other transients not to bring alcohol and drugs into the community. Laying of charges does fall in the hands of the Minister of Justice or the RCMP. We are willing to work with the community of Repulse Bay to try to stop this problem from continuing to happen. And I suggest that they also work with the RCMP to see that if people are bringing drugs into the community, charges should be laid. Thank you.

--Applause

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. This reply seems to be for all the future contractors who will be coming into the communities. My question is with regard to that particular contractor in that particular community. Will the company that caused the problem not be awarded the contract in the next season? Thank you.

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. When we tender for contracts in any region, I do not think that we could hold back contracts unless these people are tried and convicted. We cannot do that as a government, as it would be seen as us being prejudiced against the contractor without undue cause. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Final supplementary, will the Minister then communicate his response to me on the procedure that can be used with the hamlet immediately? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Like I said previously to the Member, I would be willing to instruct my

district staff to work with the hamlet and the mayor, as well as the Member to try to solve this problem. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 7, Oral questions. The honourable Member for High Arctic, Mr. Pudluk.