Yes, Mr. Chairman. Again, just looking at the community and districts of the houses, it would look like something like...In Fort Providence, where they have people paying up to $1,000 -- there will be 10 paying $1,000 and one paying over that amount -- we can anticipate that during the next four years, Providence should be looking at about 11 units going to that area. Is that right?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Next summer or fall, there will be a new housing needs survey conducted in all the communities. A 1995 housing needs survey. Then the allocations will be given out, according to the survey, in a fair and equitable manner. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member is correct. I couldn't find that table in my documents, but if it is 10 high-income people living in social housing now, over the next two years those people's needs should be met through the home ownership program. It may not necessarily mean that it is met through the ACCESS program or the alternative housing program. More than likely, their needs would be met through the forgivable loan program, the direct lending program, bridge financing program or assistance to go to the bank to get a mortgage. Their needs should be met within the next two years, you are correct. Thank you.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For further information on the rental scale that will be implemented in the next four years, I haven't actually read the contents and have a hard time understanding some parts of it. It seems to me that the Minister stated the people who are not making as much money and cannot pay their rent are usually evicted. But to my understanding, you are stating there are quite a few people who are making more money and can afford to pay their rent.

There are a lot of people who are unemployed and are not making enough money. The people who are employed and are making enough money to pay their rent are going to be encouraged to apply for home ownership. Since there is no application form that they have seen for home ownership, and if you are not eligible to be in a rental unit, do you have to apply for home ownership?

With regard to home ownership, Mr. Chairman, the rules in getting home ownership are not up to date as yet. The people who are applying for home ownership can't get one because the units are gone already. Once that list is going, there is no other way of accommodating those people who want to apply for home ownership. Do you know exactly how many have applied for home ownership? Quite a few have applied and weren't agreed upon by the committees who decide. Are there going to be more units available then? Are there any plans to be able to cater to that many applications for people who are making enough money? I haven't seen a plan in the rental scale document.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Through the consultation process and through working with the local housing authorities in every community, we will be going from house to house and explaining the new rent scale to all the tenants in Inuktitut, as well as in English, and making sure they know all the options available to them. We will be doing that

with the local housing authority, as well as the Housing Corporation staff. I would be quite happy to arrange a briefing for the Member on the new rent scale with an interpreter supplied through the Assembly on a one-on-one basis. I don't have a problem with that. We can make that arrangement.

Once people understand the new rent scale -- and a lot of the recommendations did come from the people at the regional level into the rent scale -- they will realize that home ownership is the way to go. As far as people applying for home ownership last year, I don't have a clue how many people in the Northwest Territories applied. But I do know that we built 40 ACCESS units this year on spec that people would take them next year. There is no advantage to move into home ownership because rents were so low for high-income people. So we do have 40 units that I don't believe are taken up yet.

We also have northern rentals we can sell and some rent supps that we are looking at selling off. We have the direct lending and forgivable loan programs. That is financing that we can help people go to the bank with. We work closely with the tenant, take him through the process, take him to the bank or we finance him ourselves through direct lend or a forgivable loan. That way, we get more units for the same amount of dollars.

(Translation) Mr. Chairman, a short addition to my question. Is it wide open now, even if you are making quite a bit of money? There were certain limitations to be eligible for home ownership housing, are there certain limits now too, as for when a person may apply for home ownership under the Housing Corporation? And, once the housing associations have been informed about this new rental scale, even though some people are not eligible for home ownership, can they apply for this as well? That's my last question. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, people will be eligible for home ownership, even though they are above the CNIT, that's the core need income threshold for their community. There are different programs that will kick in at that level. It may be direct lending, it may be a portion of forgivable loan and direct lending, we can do bridge financing for them, or we can sell them a package directly and assist them to put together a financial package and go to the bank with it. There are programs for those people. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, one of the recommendations of the Special Advisory Committee on Social Housing, which I haven't seen addressed in this paper -- and I may have missed it -- was that there should be incentives to local housing authorities for energy conservation, that this was a big chunk of the corporation's costs and that if incentives could be provided to local authorities and they could keep money or hold back money they saved on energy conservation, we might substantially bring down our energy costs, and that it would happen best at the community level. Did I miss something, or is that not addressed in the Minister's paper? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No, the Member did not miss it. It is not addressed in this paper. This is the new rent scale for social housing. That issue will be addressed on an ongoing basis with the local housing authorities, the same as with the construction issues and other recommendations that came out of the regional consultation meetings. They are not all addressed in this paper. This only deals with the rent scale. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I'm content that the Minister will work on that energy conservation issue, but I would just like to remind him that this was a recommendation of his advisory committee and I think we recommended it as part of the response to the new social housing rent scale because we thought it was one very effective way the corporation could improve its revenues. That is, by reducing the enormous costs of energy. I forget the figure, but it is a staggering sum that the corporation pays out every year for energy. So, I would just like to remind the Minister that I think this is a recommendation in the committee report and if it is not being responded to in this paper, which I understand focuses on the rent scale, I think the committee should expect a response to that recommendation at a future time.

I'm willing to give the Minister more time to work on that but, to me, it was part of the package and it shouldn't be overlooked because there are millions of dollars there that could be saved if we promoted energy savings in our communities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do agree with the Member that we have to address that issue and we are going to work on it. Hopefully by February or March, we can try to address that issue as well as the issue of back rents, which total about $7 million or $9 million now. That's a lot of money. We will try to address that issue and come forward with a paper for the advisory committee. Thank you.