This is page numbers 679 - 714 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was community.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Antoine, Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Hon. Jeannie Marie-Jewell, Hon. Rebecca Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Mr. Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Patterson, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Hon. John Todd

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 679

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

I would to express, on behalf of the Legislative Assembly, our heartfelt condolences to the families and many friends of the eight people who tragically lost their lives recently while travelling in the waters off Iqaluit. Our prayers are with you, and I would request that all Members remain standing for a minute of silence.

---Minute of silence

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Madam Premier.

Minister's Statement 48-12(6): Sympathies
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, on behalf of Cabinet, I want to express my deepest sympathies to the families and friends of the eight people who drowned in the tragic boating accident near Iqaluit, and to the two survivors whose lives have been irreversibly altered by this experience.

Madam Speaker, there are no easy answers to help us understand why something like this happens, Madam Speaker, there are no easy words to help heal the wounds created by such a loss.

I just want to say that the hearts of all northern residents go out to the families and friends of those lost in this horrible tragedy. We offer to them our most profound condolences and our strongest support in their time of deep personal suffering. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Minister's Statement 48-12(6): Sympathies
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Nerysoo.

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. On August 24th, the governments of Canada and the Northwest Territories signed a Canada/NWT infrastructure program agreement. The program is intended to create short and long-term employment through investment in local communities, while meeting the need to enhance physical infrastructure in those communities.

Recognizing the unique situation in the NWT, the national infrastructure program and the aboriginal infrastructure program have been combined into a single program. Through the agreement, the federal government and the Government of the Northwest Territories will each provide $5.4 million over the next two years. A further potential contribution of up to $2 million from the tax-based communities will increase the total fund to approximately $12 million.

The infrastructure program follows the model of the successful NWT workers' training fund program, allowing communities to determine their own priorities and administer the projects. Communities may develop one major project or several smaller ones.

All communities in the NWT have been assigned a funding allocation, based on the number of working age people who are not employed. A maximum and minimum level of funding has been set to allow sufficient funds for small communities to develop projects of a reasonable size.

The Department of Education, Culture and Employment is responsible for implementing and delivering this program, with assistance from Municipal and Community Affairs. A management committee has been established to administer and manage the program, headed by Mr. Mark Cleveland, assistant deputy minister of culture and careers and Mr. Warren Johnson, NWT regional director of Indian and Northern Affairs for the federal government.

Madam Speaker, the NWT/Canada infrastructure program allows participants to undertake and invest in worthwhile infrastructure projects. The program assists the government in achieving its goal of increased control at the local level, while it helps my department reach its goal of providing increased training and work experience opportunities at the community level. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Keewatin Central, Mr. Todd.

John Todd Keewatin Central

Madam Speaker, I would like to take a few minutes today to talk about some positive developments in the Department of Transportation's community access roads program. As Members are aware, the idea for a community access roads program came from the advice of Members of this House and, in particular, the honourable Member for Natilikmiot. If progress made this year is any indication, I am

pleased to say that it seems to have caught on. The intent of the program is to develop local roads to nearby areas of importance.

I want to emphasize that, from start to finish, community access roads are largely community initiatives. The Department of Transportation funds the projects through contribution agreements with the communities. The community gives the department a proposal and, from the proposal, the community and the department work out the material, financial and human resources they will jointly contribute to the project.

Madam Speaker, in Taloyoak, the hamlet and the department made a 50/50 cost sharing agreement to hire 18 students who repaired the ATV trails to Netsilik Lake and Redfish Lake. The community of Igloolik completed a two-year project to fix a five-kilometre trail to Igloolik Point. Cap Mountain Ventures of Wrigley improved a three-kilometre access road to the boots camp on the Willowlake River. In Arviat, the hamlet built two kilometres of road past Landing Lake towards the Maguse River. The hamlet of Resolute worked to improve the road to Sight Point. The community of Jean Marie River upgraded seven kilometres of winter road to all-weather quality. Baker Lake added two more kilometres to the Whitehills Lake Road. And, the material for a bridge over the Kuruluk River arrived in Broughton Island this summer. The community will move the pieces to the river by snowmobile and komatik and assemble the bridge by hand next spring.

As the Minister of Transportation, it is rewarding to see the effort and commitment that communities are willing to invest in their access roads. The contribution agreement is a flexible way to match community resources with the scope and scale of the project. I have said before that I wanted to see community access roads become a larger part of the transportation portfolio. As a goal, I imagined a program with an annual budget of $1 million. For next year, the Department of Transportation is already examining proposals worth $700,000 and it expects to receive as many as 10 more new proposals.

With the growing interest this year, I am pleased to say that the community access roads program is quickly becoming one of the Department of Transportation's most successful programs. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Phase-out Of Flight Support Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Government of Canada, through their national airports policy, is significantly downgrading services to airports operated by Transport Canada throughout the country by disposing of federally-owned airports to regional and municipal airport authorities. Our government, through the Department of Transportation, is

actively involved in negotiating the transfer of the nine Arctic A airports from Transport Canada.

There are four communities targeted for closure in the 1995-96 fiscal year: Cambridge Bay, Hay River, Fort Simpson and Fort Smith. There will be a loss of approximately 24 full-time positions in these communities. The hamlet council of Cambridge Bay and I have been requesting the Honourable John Todd, Minister of Transportation, to establish a community aerodrome radio station known as CARS in lieu of eliminating the flight service stations.

The establishment of the CARS program will result in retaining some employment in the community but, most importantly, will provide a dependable human component to the aircraft advisory service that cannot be performed by an automated system. The airline industry is apprehensive about the establishment of a CAATS system in our northern environment where reliable, up-to-date weather and operating conditions are critical to their operations.

Although Cambridge Bay, Hay River, Fort Smith and Fort Simpson are planned for phase-out next year, when will the remaining communities with flight service stations be phased out? Our communities cannot afford to lose the staff positions or the air support services currently offered by Transport Canada. Our government must intervene to ensure that adequate levels of employment and flight support services are provided within communities currently designated for phase-out by Transport Canada.

Madam Speaker, once again, the government of Canada is arbitrarily cutting back services to the NWT which directly affects services to our constituents. Although it may be inevitable, given the fiscal situation in Canada, our government must interject now to minimize the disruption and impact in our communities. Thank you.

---Applause

Phase-out Of Flight Support Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I stand before this House offering my prayers and condolences to the families of hunters who were tragically lost at sea near Iqaluit. Madam Speaker, no pain is more painful than when one experiences the loss of life of a loved one. Madam Speaker, no heart is heavier than when one experiences the loss of life of loved ones.

Madam Speaker, but only God can offer relief and comfort to the families of those people who are lost. May God provide relief and comfort to the families of hunters who have passed on to a life of peace in eternity. Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

Condolences To Families Of Lost Hunters
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I also would like to rise today to speak about the pain and suffering of the families who have been left behind. We are all are affected by this tragedy that occurred just recently. We can only look to God for comfort, and I pray that the people who are immediately affected by this tragedy are in the arms of the loving God.

All these people who have perished have many relatives across the territories and we send our sincerest condolences to the families. They are in our thoughts and prayers. Only God can give you relief and comfort and he knows exactly what is going on in the minds and hearts of those people who have been left behind. I'm sure he will keep them in his care and love.

On behalf of my constituents, we send our sincerest condolences and prayers to the families, relatives and friends. Although this tragedy has occurred, we have to look to God for comfort. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Condolences To Families Of Lost Hunters
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Amittuq, Mr. Allooloo.

Passing Of Mr. Simonie Alainga
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Madam Speaker. (Translation) We're all concerned about the families who have been left behind in this tragedy, and they will be in our prayers, Madam Speaker. All the Yellowknife churches have been approached to help. (Translation ends)

...lost in that boating accident and his name was Simonie Alainga who was a community leader and a pillar of the community. When you went into his house in Iqaluit, you always saw Baffin people staying there because they felt comfortable, and they were also fed and there was always tea on the stove for anyone who came into Simonie's house.

I knew Simonie for a number of years as a colleague, when I was on the hamlet council and also mayor, and also at the Baffin regional councils. He was been a strong leader in the community. Within the last few years, he had been concentrating his efforts toward helping the young people to get better and also to go out hunting.

Madam Speaker, I sincerely would like to say we are sorry that we have lost a very strong Baffin leader. Thank you.

Passing Of Mr. Simonie Alainga
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Tragic Hunting Accident In Frobisher Bay
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 681

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the people of my constituency are in deep shock and mourning since they heard yesterday of the news of the loss of eight hunters in the waters of Frobisher Bay last weekend. This sad news came after days of increasing anxiety and concern. In the midst of this sorrow, Madam Speaker, there is also some joy.

Earlier this week, as the search continued with no news, I said that all we could do is pray for a miracle. And I know many of us did just that. Madam Speaker, it is nothing short of miraculous that Billy Kownirk and Pitseola Alainga, Simonie's son, managed to survive somehow in that weather and cold after what they had been through for two and a half days, and miraculous that they were seen by the dedicated searchers, clinging to the submerged remains of the vessel.

Madam Speaker, all these lost hunters are much beloved by their families and the community and their many relatives, not just in Iqaluit but other Baffin communities. However, I want to specifically pay tribute today to Simonie Alainga, their leader.

Simonie was the personification of caring and decency and humanity. This trip was typical of Simonie. He was bringing back walrus meat for the community, he had a crew of veteran dedicated hunters and young people with him. He was a friend to all, but especially to young people. He was a pillar of the Iqaluit community for his services to church and community. I wish to thank Members of this House and many others who have expressed their condolences.

I will be travelling to Iqaluit tomorrow, along with other Members of this House, to pay my respects, and I will take those wishes with me. Thank you.

Tragic Hunting Accident In Frobisher Bay
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 681

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, on behalf of my constituents of Yellowknife North and the residents of Yellowknife, I would like to express our deep condolences for the eight hunters who tragically were lost in the dangerous waters of Frobisher Bay. Our condolences go out to the families and friends of those who were taken from us.

We share the joy of the families and friends of the two hunters who were saved. I think it's moments like this that we should all forget our differences in the Northwest Territories. We all have to pull together. Iqaluit's loss is all of our loss. From my constituents, I extend our deepest condolences to the people of Iqaluit and the region.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Madam Premier.

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 682

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I have a number of returns to oral questions.

Return To Question 170-12(6): Treatment Of Dyslexia/fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

A return to oral question that was asked by Mr. Sam Gargan on October 18th regarding the treatment of dyslexia/fetal alcohol syndrome.

Madam Speaker, the use of alcohol by a pregnant woman can cause many problems for the child. However, dyslexia is not necessarily caused by the mother's drinking.

Unfortunately, once a child has been damaged by alcohol, and has fetal alcohol syndrome or effects, or if something else has caused them to have dyslexia, it is not possible to provide treatment that will cure that problem. What can be done is to try to provide special school and family support services that can help the child to function better in spite of their handicap.

Alcohol causes permanent damage in the unborn child, and such children will then require help in coping throughout their lives. Teachers do have techniques to help people to read, even if they are dyslexic, but the dyslexia itself will always be there.

Further Return To Question 241-12(6): Status Of Mou With Health Boards
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I have a further return. Return to a question asked by Mr. Koe on October 25th in terms of the status of the status of the memorandum of understanding with the health boards.

Madam Speaker, the roles and responsibilities of the board, as a whole, will be specified in the memorandum of understanding. A job description/role description for an individual board trustee has not been requested by the boards and will not be included in the memorandum of understanding.

The role of the individual board trustee is currently described in the board by-laws, enacted by each board and approved by the Minister.

The trustee orientation manual, which is available to all board trustees, provides further information about roles and responsibilities. These resources provide the detailed information to new board trustees that helps them to adequately understanding their roles.

Return To Question 259-12(6): Proposal Call Re Study Of Financing Alternatives For Education
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I have a further return to an oral question which was asked by Mr. Lewis on Wednesday, October 26th. The question concerns a proposal call regarding a study of financing alternatives for education.

Madam Speaker, the study of options for financing local government is being undertaken by the Department of Finance in conjunction with the departments of Education, Culture and Employment, Municipal and Community Affairs and the Ministry of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs. It is being carried out under the direction of a steering committee of deputy ministers from these departments and chaired by the deputy minister of Finance.

The review will examine the financing of education throughout the Northwest Territories, including local school boards. It will consider the effectiveness of the existing taxation system and provide recommendations on alternatives. In order that all residents have an opportunity for input into the study, there will be widespread consultation with municipalities, school boards and other stakeholders across the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 259-12(6): Proposal Call Re Study Of Financing Alternatives For Education
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. The honourable Member for Baffin Central, Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 244-12(6): Shortage Of Staff Housing In Arctic Bay
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Pudluk on October 25th, 1994 regarding shortage and resolution of staff housing in Arctic Bay.

There are 16 staff housing units and 36 GNWT employees in Arctic Bay. In addition, there is one unit under construction.

Due to changes in personal circumstances affecting two staff members, there is now a need for two additional units in Arctic Bay.

The Department of Public Works and Services is currently investigating options to resolve the problem. Once a course of action is decided upon, I will advise Mr. Pudluk. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 244-12(6): Shortage Of Staff Housing In Arctic Bay
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Transportation. Earlier in my Member's statement, I spoke on the pending closures of flight service stations in some communities in the NWT. I have spoken and written to the Minister about the issue. What has he or his department done to oppose or to minimize the impact as a result of these impending closures?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Transportation, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. In our negotiations that are coming under way for the Arctic A

airports, we are making a provision in our discussions with Transport Canada to operate these airports in a CARS situation, which the honourable Member alluded to earlier. We are reasonably optimistic, should we be successful in negotiating this, that some, if not all, of the jobs will be kept. It is important to point out that in the CARS program, 95 per cent of people working in that program are aboriginal. Thank you.

Return To Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. With respect to the proposed automated systems that Transport Canada is putting into these communities, has his department undertaken negotiations or discussions with the air carrier servicing these communities to see if those systems are adequate based on their needs? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Transportation, Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Todd Keewatin Central

In the negotiations under way for Arctic airports, there has been tremendous consultation with a variety of groups, including the airline companies. As I have said, we are optimistic that if we are successful in this transfer initiative, we will do it in such a manner that there will be manual CARS operators, rather than the automated systems that my honourable colleague is talking about.

Further Return To Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have said that I fully support the establishment of a CARS program. It is critical to the operation of these flight support services in our communities. I also support the Arctic A transfer initiative that the department has undertaken. In what time frame is the Minister expecting these negotiations to be concluded? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Transportation, Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Todd Keewatin Central

When we made the presentation to the Standing Committee on Finance, we indicated to them that we were hopeful that negotiations could be concluded by April 1, 1995. Let's bear in mind that this is subject to Cabinet approval, but we were optimistic. In my latest discussions with Transportation yesterday, it looks like it may be the end of June/beginning of July. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Question 312-12(6): Impact Of Flight Service Station Closures
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, last week, the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment tabled, People, Our Focus for the Future: A Strategy to 2010. I glanced through the book and I find it a very nice document. There are lots of pretty pictures and graphs. There is a lot of information on our education system. I would like to congratulate the department for the initiative they are undertaking. However, I am concerned in terms of the strategy on the amount of information that is contained in the document and how it is being distributed. My question to the Minister is now that the strategy has been developed and printed, is that it? Is the development of the strategy finished?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

The strategy document and advice that was given by the community consultation groups is contained in the document. That portion of the development of the document is complete. What now has to take place are the components of that strategy and we are already in the process and have concluded a number of those initiatives.

Return To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Education is a concern right across the north. I am just wondering, is it the intention of the department to have more consultation on this printed document with grassroots people or is it now going to be up to the academics and the bureaucrats to implement this strategy?

Supplementary To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Madam Speaker, I don't want to express disappointment with the honourable Member, but the fact is that it has been focus groups that have met -- in fact one group met in Inuvik -- on two particular issues. There was a territorial symposium on the issue of child care. On the matter of the Dene Kede curriculum and Innuqatigiit, aboriginal communities are involved in the development of those documents. They are important components to the conclusion of the strategy itself.

In a number of these cases, actual implementation and specific work in those areas we have identified has to take place now. That is something that has to be done in conjunction with our divisional and school boards.

Further Return To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

Fred Koe Inuvik

I didn't intend the Minister to get upset at me for asking questions about his report and trying to clarify some issues. I know the groups are mentioned in this document and I know there has been a lot of consultation, but there are still many people out there with children in school systems who would like to look at this and read it to see what the department and Minister is intending. That is my point. It is a large document. There is a lot of information in here and I just want to know how does the Minister propose to get this information out to grassroots people; people in the community who are concerned about education?

Supplementary To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Madam Speaker, we are going to do the same thing we have done for the last two years: have the communities participate in analysing the information that we provided them. Much of the documentation and information we have received has been from the communities and we are going to continue to advise them. Just so that Members know, the document has been sent to all political leaders, all the CECs, all the school boards, Arctic College board members and every conceivable organization we can provide it to.

Further Return To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi. I have always been an advocate of using plain and simple language, so people can read, understand and digest information. What is the department doing to provide people in the communities the knowledge of what is in this strategy?

Supplementary To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Madam Speaker, what we are doing is trying to advise the CECs and the boards of what is contained in the document. We are also trying to involve them in the development of the Education Act, which is a key component in the implementation of the strategy.

Further Return To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Further Return To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I have a question for the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation. Madam Speaker, I seem to have a bit of a problem here. I asked the Minister responsible a written question asking for the simple increased cost of a 22 per cent surcharge to Royal Oak and Con. For some reason, whoever

answered the question didn't quite understand my question, so I didn't really get a response back.

Then I asked an oral question and three supplementary questions asking the same question and the Minister said at first that it was in front of the Public Utilities Board and then her last response was, she didn't know. But that is the reason, Madam Speaker, why I asked the written question in the first place, because I didn't think she would know. So, we're right back to where we started from.

So, I will try again. I understand the Minister's embarrassment in answering this question. I would be embarrassed too, because the numbers probably are quite hefty. My question to the Minister is, would the Minister agree that the cost to Royal Oak and to Miramar would be 22 per cent more than what they are paying presently?

Further Return To Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Question 313-12(6): Future Plans For Education Strategy To 2010
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Mr. Ballantyne, I am having a problem with the way the question is posed, maybe because that issue is in front of the PUB and the decision has not yet been made. You may attempt to rephrase your question. Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Certainly, Madam Speaker, I've made numerous attempts to rephrase this question. I will do it a different way altogether then. I will assume, Madam Speaker, that it is 22 per cent more than the present costs and I'll ask, as a Member of a Legislative Assembly that actually owns the Power Corporation, if the Minister could make available to me the present costs paid by Miramar and Royal Oak for power. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Power Corporation, Madam Premier.

Return To Question 314-12(6): Power Costs Paid By Royal Oak And Miramar Con Mines
Question 314-12(6): Power Costs Paid By Royal Oak And Miramar Con Mines
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, yes, I'll do that.

Return To Question 314-12(6): Power Costs Paid By Royal Oak And Miramar Con Mines
Question 314-12(6): Power Costs Paid By Royal Oak And Miramar Con Mines
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Amittuq, Mr. Allooloo.

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister for DPW a question. He made a really good statement about the BIP. I am reading from the unedited Hansard of October 19, 1994. He says that in order to be a Northwest Territories resident, you have to be in the Northwest Territories for one year. In order to get a local contract, you have to be in a community for six months. The addresses of employees and also T-22 tax forms are required as proof of income tax paid in the Northwest Territories. Also, the government would be able to remove business incentive policy benefits from companies who don't obey the policy. I wonder, when is the government going to change their policy to suit what the Minister said on October 19th. Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 315-12(6): Time Frame For Changes To Bip
Question 315-12(6): Time Frame For Changes To Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I've directed the president of the Housing Corporation as well as the deputy minister of DPW to amend all existing contracts we have out there right now for clarification of northern residence. Before, what was acceptable to get the business incentive policy for northern and local work was an NWT health card. What we've done is increased that to a driver's licence as well as a tax return and the address of where the employee lives.

We will be amending all our contracts for next year; so, if you do not hire local people like you said you were going to in the contract, then we will have the opportunity to either pull the contract from you, pull the BIP from you, or else cancel the contract immediately. Thank you.

Return To Question 315-12(6): Time Frame For Changes To Bip
Question 315-12(6): Time Frame For Changes To Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Finance. He told us in the Assembly that the payroll tax has worked the way he had hoped it would work. With the exception of the Dene Nation, who has decided they are not going to pay taxes, he has received money from southern Canada, from companies who have offices in southern Canada, and even offices of companies in the United States. My question to the Minister is, are there any bodies in the Northwest Territories, apart from the Dene Nation, who have decided they are not going to pay this tax?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Good afternoon. Madam Speaker, the federal government had some problems putting this tax into place simply because of the system they were using. They are registered and on stream now. The Dene Nation refused on the grounds that they were not to be included because of treaty arrangements. They have an issue before the federal government that I agreed to take a look at before insisting that they pay.

Those are the ones I know about that we've had problems with registering or paying, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The issue related to the Dene Nation, since it's not an issue before the courts, I would like to ask the Minister on what specific legal grounds had the Dene Nation argued that they should not pay taxes?

Supplementary To Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, representation was made to me by Chief Erasmus that, because of a treaty, he had made representation to the federal government and the federal government was looking at a remission order with regard to taxes. Because what Mr. Erasmus told me was true, I said I would wait until we had received word from the Minister of Indian Affairs with regard to how they were going to rule on that issue.

As soon as the letter came from Mr. Irwin that said that he was not going to issue a remission order, or that there was not going to be forgiveness of taxes, I proceeded to tell Mr. Erasmus that he must now comply with the Legislative Assembly law that there should be a payroll tax in the Northwest Territories.

Further Return To Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Taxation obviously poses problems in the Northwest Territories and maybe this is just the tip of the iceberg. Since governments depend on taxes for revenue to provide its programs, I would like to ask the Minister, is that one of the reasons why we are looking to alternatives to taxes for the provision of services in the Northwest Territories, as referred to earlier when the Premier responded to my question about the proposal to look at alternative tax systems for providing schools and so on?

Supplementary To Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, that issue that we are going to study and consult with school boards, municipalities and other stake holders on, has been around for some time. I think it started with Mr. Morin, myself and Mr. Lewis when we were on the Standing Committee on

Finance, and that there were a number of aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories who objected to the name "tax," particularly when it came down to land taxes because they said we already own the land so why should we be paying taxes on something that we already own.

Again, in 1991, the NWT Association of Municipalities raised this issue and made a motion and said that we should stop levying the education tax. So, on one hand we were being asked to rename the tax, and the Standing Committee on Finance had suggested that we look at a different name for it, and now the Association of Municipalities is saying we should stop that tax. So the reason for the study is to get out there and talk to people about the renaming, about why municipalities want to dispose of the tax. I already know the reason, it's because some of them are losing money on collecting taxes for us, Madam Speaker. So we're going to try to resolve those issues and still maintain those tax dollars that we need to deliver education in the Northwest Territories, partially. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Question 316-12(6): Territorial Groups Refusing To Pay Payroll Tax
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Justice and it has to do with the RCMP policy with respect to visitation rights for prisoners being held in cells within some of our communities who are awaiting court dates or transfers or are sentenced to weekends. I would like to ask the Minister, is there a specific policy that the RCMP has as far as the guidelines for visitors to people in cells? Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, I'm sure there is a policy. We'll get copies made for the Member, that spell out what the RCMP's policy is for visitation to inmates who are serving sentences in the communities, those on remand and those awaiting court appearances in a community, so that all Members can enjoy the information. Thank you.

Return To Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I appreciate the fact that the Minister is going to get a copy of the policy. I would like to ask the Minister is he's aware, within this policy, whether the RCMP personnel at the local detachment have flexibility in the guidelines for these prisoners. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, I'm not clear what the Member means by flexibility. There are rights given to inmates who are incarcerated. They have a right to have visitors. People who are on remand have different visitation rights. I think once we make copies of the policy available, then those questions will be answered. I don't know the specific details of the policy, myself. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. When I meant flexibility, Madam Speaker, I was referring to whether or not the local RCMP had the flexibility to determine which individual family member has the right to visit somebody who is incarcerated. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, I have no idea of who the RCMP can decide can visit inmates in the communities when they are incarcerated. I don't know that. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister then, is he aware in this policy if RCMP officers have the authority to suspend visiting privileges for prisoners, and under what circumstances they would have that authority. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, the primary principle there is safety and security of inmates and the public. I know that's the general principle on which everyone operates. If there are difficulties with inmates, difficulties with the visitors, members of family who are visiting, then the rights to visit can be restricted, perhaps even cut depending on the ability of the RCMP to provide proper supervision and surveillance. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Question 317-12(6): Rcmp Policy For Visiting Inmates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Earlier in this session, in March, I reminded the Minister of Education that there were several children in the city with special needs who were not getting the attention that they should get, and the board, especially the public school board, had quite a large deficit. In fact, under the Education Act, the Minister is made responsible for providing for special needs children.

At that time, Madam Speaker, he told me that Social Services and the Department of Health and his department had set up a tripartite committee, and this issue would be resolved by school opening this fall. It's now into November, so I would like to ask the Minister has this issue been resolved as he had promised last March?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 687

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I'm not sure if I promised it. What I did say is I would try to resolve it. However, there are still matters that have not been dealt with. In the case of speech therapy, for instance, we're doing an assessment in the city in providing additional financial resources to the school boards to address that particular matter, along with some of the other special need requirements in the city.

Return To Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 687

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Since the Minister did make a commitment to resolve this issue by school opening, and we understand that very often things can't go exactly according to any individual's timetable, I would like to ask the Minister, although some progress has been made, what remains to be done to resolve this issue with the city?

Supplementary To Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 687

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

There are a couple of important issues that need to be resolved. One, the whole matter of dealing with school board No. 1 in particular on addressing the whole issue of inclusive schooling, because school board No. 2, the separate school board, is actually developing quite an innovative and positive response to the whole matter of inclusive schooling, to a point that they've organized themselves within groups within their schools to work on the development of a plan to respond.

The other issue, of course, deals with the matter of space. I think that the honourable Member and other Members of Yellowknife have raised the issue of the need for space for some special needs programming.

The other issue is a longer-term one, and that is specialized support, not only for the students here but generally for students throughout the Northwest Territories. And one which the honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake has raised on a number of occasions, and that is the speech therapy support services.

Further Return To Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 687

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. School district No. 1, in fact, engaged the services of Dr. Gordon Porter from New Brunswick, who I have known for many years, and has developed in concert with the board, a policy with regard to inclusive schooling which has been adopted by the boards. So I would like to ask the Minister, since that board already has a policy on inclusive schooling, what is holding up any further developments with regard to the Minister meeting his responsibilities under the act?

Supplementary To Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 687

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Education.

Further Return To Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 687

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is interesting that the honourable Member mentions Dr. Porter because Dr. Porter, in my most recent meetings in Toronto at a conference on inclusive schooling, special needs education, supports the inclusive schooling policy of the Government of the Northwest Territories and has indicated to me that it is one of the leading policies in this country.

I think the report that was provided to school district No. 1 was an excellent report by Dr. Porter. I have had a chance to review it and I have also had a chance to review the response to school district No. 1. All the decisions that have been made have not been totally supportive of Dr. Porter's original report. I do feel the inclusive school policy is one that we should implement and one we need to work on. Generally speaking, there are some specific issues that need to be addressed and, hopefully, with the commitment of the Department of Health and Social Services and ourselves, we can get on with trying to find the necessary responses.

In some cases, we are responding by providing additional financial support. With others, we have to deal with the question of space. There are two elements to space: one is the growing school-age population in the city. Secondly, is the need for us to address the special needs of school in the city as well.

Further Return To Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Question 318-12(6): Provision Of Services To Special Needs Children
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 687

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. In late July, the department prepared a Northwest Territories tourism marketing strategy and released the report to operators and other people in the industry throughout the north. To me, the document is very timely and is reflective of the diverse needs of tourism industry and of our attractions in the north. My question to the Minister is what kind of response is he receiving from people across the north on this tourism strategy?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 319-12(6): Response To Nwt Tourism Strategy
Question 319-12(6): Response To NWT Tourism Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. First of all, I appreciate the comments of my honourable colleague. I think the report is somewhat reflective of the conditions that exist in the territories today. I did say last week that we want to take a two-pronged approach. You have the highway system and then you have the east. Hopefully, we will pursue that.

The response we have had to date, although it is not overwhelming because it is still very much in the consultative stages, has been generally receptive to the report so far. I am hoping that some time in the new year, we will be able to consolidate the views of everyone and move forward on this approach that I alluded to last week in my speech to try to get a greater focus on tourism development. And more importantly, at least in my eyes, try to put the marketing and the tourism development into the hands of those who are directed affected, rather than in the hands of the government. Thank you.

Return To Question 319-12(6): Response To Nwt Tourism Strategy
Question 319-12(6): Response To NWT Tourism Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 319-12(6): Response To Nwt Tourism Strategy
Question 319-12(6): Response To NWT Tourism Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 688

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I thank the Minister for that response. In the Minister's covering letter on the report, the Minister stated that consultation was extensive in developing the strategy. My supplementary question is how extensive was the consultation in developing this strategy?

Supplementary To Question 319-12(6): Response To Nwt Tourism Strategy
Question 319-12(6): Response To NWT Tourism Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 688

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 319-12(6): Response To Nwt Tourism Strategy
Question 319-12(6): Response To NWT Tourism Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Todd Keewatin Central

From what I remember -- it was some time back when this consultation took place -- they discussed with tourism operators, some of the zone associations, individual people who are involved in tourism, chambers of commerce, some aboriginal groups, airlines, et cetera, in an effort to renew a tourism strategy that is reflective of the 1990s. The last time a tourism strategy was put in place was 1988 or 1989. So this was an effort to try to bring up to date where we should put what limited money we have and where we should put our effort. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 319-12(6): Response To Nwt Tourism Strategy
Question 319-12(6): Response To NWT Tourism Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 319-12(6): Response To Nwt Tourism Strategy
Question 319-12(6): Response To NWT Tourism Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 688

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. The study has been done and you are now receiving feedback. There was some reorganization going on, as you mentioned a few days ago in this House. So what happens next? What is the follow-up to this strategy?

Supplementary To Question 319-12(6): Response To Nwt Tourism Strategy
Question 319-12(6): Response To NWT Tourism Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 688

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 319-12(6): Response To Nwt Tourism Strategy
Question 319-12(6): Response To NWT Tourism Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Todd Keewatin Central

As the honourable Member has said, Madam Speaker, we are seeking public input to confirm that some of the directions we have developed in this strategy are correct. Hopefully, we will have that done by year end. We have studied the reorganization in terms of how we would view tourism with respect to a highway system versus a non-highway system. I am looking for a little more public input on whether we move it out of the department and put it in the hands of the private sector. That would be my personal preference, but we want to make sure that is where the industry wants to go. Hopefully, in the early part of the new year, we are up and running and moving forward in some of the changes that need to take place.

We indicated earlier in the year in our decentralization initiatives, where we gave significant new authorities to the superintendents, we have done exactly the same thing with the tourism budgets. We said the budget should be in the regions, whether it is for marketing or for development and the regions, particularly the regional offices, have got a responsibility and obligation to consult with the industry. The industry should have direct influence on where that money should be spent. So I am optimistic over the next three or four months that that will be in place and there will be a very strong regional thrust to it, but I need about another two months to make sure we are on the right track and to get on with the job. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 319-12(6): Response To Nwt Tourism Strategy
Question 319-12(6): Response To NWT Tourism Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 319-12(6): Response To Nwt Tourism Strategy
Question 319-12(6): Response To NWT Tourism Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi. That is the issue: to get on with the job and develop the industry. In the report, the last chapter outlines what the NWT has to do to develop the industry, but there is no real action plan. I can compare that to the strategy 2010. There is an implementation strategy in there. I am just wondering if the Minister is now going to be looking at developing an implementation strategy.

Supplementary To Question 319-12(6): Response To Nwt Tourism Strategy
Question 319-12(6): Response To NWT Tourism Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 688

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 319-12(6): Response To Nwt Tourism Strategy
Question 319-12(6): Response To NWT Tourism Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Todd Keewatin Central

We know what our dollars are going to be and we know what they have been historically. So we know what money is available. We are trying to put the fiscal responsibility in the hands of the regions. We don't have an implementation plan in there because we want the regions to develop that with the resources that they have. I am somewhat frustrated, as I am sure the honourable Member is, that we have been going around and around on this issue for a number of years. I believe that the steps we have taken: one, to take a more focused approach when it comes to east and west is important because you have a highway system plus an air system; two, we have given significant, almost all, the fiscal authority into the regions, except for a few generic things that we do, a 1-800 line and some of the marketing we have done;

and, three, we have instructed our superintendents that they had better work closely, and will work closely with the industry, to develop strategies that are responsive to their needs and to work with the industry and determine where we spend what limited budgets and money we have in tourism development.

I'm optimistic that, for example, Mr. Koe's area, which is an expanding tourist area -- and he's very fortunate, because some others aren't -- should be determining where we spend money when it comes to tourism development and marketing. That's what we intend to do, not having direction come from someone sitting in Yellowknife in a civil service job. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 319-12(6): Response To Nwt Tourism Strategy
Question 319-12(6): Response To NWT Tourism Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 689

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Transportation. I believe that, in order to build an economy in the Northwest Territories, we have to build infrastructure, especially a highway system in the north.

An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Yes, and building small bridges across rivers.

Fred Koe Inuvik

And access roads.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

And access roads.

An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)

---Laughter

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I would like to ask the Minister what his department is doing to look at continuing the road north along the Mackenzie River past Wrigley. Since we built the road up to Wrigley now and last summer, during its official opening, statements were made that we shouldn't see that as the end of the highway but, rather, as a continuation of the highway north. I would like to ask the Minister what his department is doing with regard to looking at the possibility of continuing the road north along the Mackenzie River? Mahsi.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Transportation, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Discussions have been under way for some time now with a number of people in the area close to Mr. Antoine's constituency and the Sahtu with respect to the possibility of developing a hire north kind of approach to expanding this highway, similar to what was done in the early 1980s. Frank Pope, who lives in that area, has been instrumental in trying to bring people together in an effort to put forth some sort of proposal where we, along with the federal government, could look at expanding that highway. Thank you.

Return To Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The department is working with the people in these communities to develop some sort of a proposal. I would like to ask the Minister, is his department funding a committee to develop this proposal? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 689

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Transportation, Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 689

John Todd Keewatin Central

Actually, the strong political proponent of this idea of expanding the highway has been the Hon. Ethel Blondin-Andrew. She has been very active at the federal level in that particular area. We've given some technical and moral support to the group. The honourable Member knows the limitations we have right now. We have already cut our budget by $1 million because of restraint and it will require a collective approach between the federal and territorial governments.

The discussions that are under way are not being financed by anybody. They are just being done on a voluntary basis at this time, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 689

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 689

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you. Is the Minister aware if his department is working along with the political group to develop this proposal? How is his government working with the group? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 689

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Transportation, Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 689

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, if I can just step back a little bit, some time ago Mr. Pope came to me and asked if we would consider looking at a creative way to extend this highway. I said to him at the time that there was a limitation of dollars.

We have no new dollars, let's make that clear, no new dollars. Half of our budget is already spent on highways, $20 million, which I said yesterday. But, I said I was prepared to provide him with any support he required, technical support of the people from our office, and whatever political support he required to try to convince the federal government that continuing this highway is important. That's what we are doing right now. We are providing support to him, on a technical basis, when it's requested. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Question 320-12(6): Extension Of Mackenzie Highway
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 689

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. It has to do with an outstanding $4 million tax bill owed to the city of Yellowknife by delinquent ratepayers. My understanding is that there was a mechanism up to four years ago where the city could seize the property of delinquent ratepayers, but the court struck that down and now there is a loophole. So, my question to the Minister of MACA is, what is she going to do to close this loophole so that the taxpayers of Yellowknife can receive some relief?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

I'll take his question as notice and get back to him as soon as I can.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Madam Speaker, I would like to address this question to Mr. Todd, who is very popular today. In the 1960s, Madam Speaker, a tremendous number of pilots made their reputations supplying the north. One of the innovations was the non-directional beacons so that when they got to a place, they knew they were where they were supposed to be. The other one was the development of tundra tiles by Mr. Weldy Phipps from Resolute Bay so when they got to that beacon at least they could land on these large, inflated tiles.

But, I'm told by my pilot friends that the biggest innovation that would help northern transportation and affect the lives of many of our people who spend many hours in the air, is the development of a global positioning system. I would like to ask the Minister, I know this is an area where we don't have all the jurisdiction that we would like to have, but to what extent is the global positioning system now being used in the air transportation industry in the Northwest Territories?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Transportation, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 690

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I was a white-knuckled flyer and I concur with the honourable Member that we need to improve our global transportation systems. We've had extensive discussions with the Ministry of Transport to try to get the GPS into effect in our airports. We are currently looking at the possibility of some pilot projects in the Arctic. We are aggressively pursuing an extension of this whole program. Thank you.

Return To Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 690

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

I raised this with Mr. Todd a year ago. I would like to ask the Minister, has the industry, many airlines for example, had any contact with him about such a development in our northern airline industry?

Supplementary To Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 690

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Transportation, Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 690

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes, a number of the airlines, NWT Air, Ptarmigan, I believe, and some others have been working with us to develop a cost-effective GPS system, which we can hopefully put into effect in the coming years. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 690

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 690

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Any time you try to do something new which costs money, things take a long time. I would like to ask the Minister, does he have any idea about, not a timetable, but how responsive the federal government is to this idea of doing this work in the territories, so we can have a safer industry in one of the most difficult parts of the world to operate?

Supplementary To Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 690

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Transportation, Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 690

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. There is a great deal of enthusiasm for this new technology and it is being used in the United States at this time. It was used in the Gulf War. So there is a great deal of enthusiasm at the federal and territorial levels to try to get this system into place, in particular, when it comes to an area like this where, for a number of us, it is the only mode of transportation. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Question 322-12(6): Use Of Global Positioning System In Northern Aviation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 690

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Finance. Last year, the new Tobacco Tax Act was passed and restrictions were placed on the amounts of tobacco products that an individual could bring into the Northwest Territories. One of the concerns during the discussions of the bill were the issues raised about the ability of our law men to enforce this act. So my question to the Minister of Finance is how is the Tobacco Tax Act being enforced?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 691

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, there is a lot of cooperation between Manitoba, British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, ourselves and Yukon with regard to an agreement we have to prevent cigarettes from being smuggled into any of those jurisdictions. Sometimes we get tips from other jurisdictions that tobacco and, in some instances, liquor is being moved into the Northwest Territories illegally. One of those tips has turned into a court case in Norman Wells. We have had good cooperation from our RCMP. In Iqaluit, again, the same thing: there was a tip-off to the RCMP. Again, there was good cooperation. We are not out there as policemen looking in every car and checking every package that comes into the Northwest Territories, but for the most part, we are acting on information provided to us, Madam Speaker. We are acting on information that falls out of audits. We are receiving good cooperation from the RCMP. The law is being used properly and the RCMP are not having any problems enforcing that law. Thank you.

Return To Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Fred Koe Inuvik

There is some cost to enforcing any law, so I am wondering if the Minister has any idea or can he estimate the cost to enforce this Tobacco Tax Act?

Supplementary To Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 691

John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, we have people in the Department of Finance who work on taxation issues all the time. I don't know how much of their time is spent enforcing the Tobacco Tax Act. I can try to ascertain what that is and provide the information to the Member. As far as when the police are called in to make a prosecution or do a search, that is covered under the agreement that we have with Canada for paying for 75 per cent of the RCMP costs in the Northwest Territories. Again, I don't know what that cost is, but as far as our own costs, I will try to ascertain what they are and how much time is being spent on it, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi. Currently, our biggest law enforcers are the RCMP. Over the past few days, the Minister has been aware of some of the issues concerning the use and deployment of RCMP officers throughout the north. Generally, people in the communities want the RCMP to be used to deter or to solve crimes. So how much of a priority, with respect to law enforcement, is being put onto the RCMP, as compared to more areas that are people-related in terms of criminal activity?

Supplementary To Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, before implementing the tax and making the changes to the Tobacco Tax Act, we discussed the issue with the RCMP and they said they would act when called upon. Our particular concern was Iqaluit, and I have said that in the House before. They sit right on top of Quebec and we know that this is where the problems started with the lowering of the federal tobacco taxes. There is probably greater attention paid to it in Iqaluit than there is in the rest of the Northwest Territories.

But as far as how far down the scale it is with regard to other areas of problems in communities with people or crime, I would say it falls below those. It is not a high-priority issue. It isn't something that I have got lots of pressure on the RCMP for, saying get out there and catch these people. We, as I have said before, usually act on information provided to us in specific circumstances or provided to the RCMP and then we ask them to act on it. It isn't a high priority with the RCMP as far as I am concerned. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. When we pass laws and debate laws here, we are always looking for some benefit; a benefit to the people of the Northwest Territories. In our discussions leading to the act, we talked about some of the so-called benefits to people such as their health. The higher prices would maybe reduce smoking, so can the Minister give us some ideas of the benefits since the enactment of the Tobacco Tax Act?

Supplementary To Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, numbers that we looked at for the first three months of last year versus the first three months of this year, indicated an increase in tobacco sales in the Northwest Territories.

With regard to the benefits to the Northwest Territories, we protected the $2 million that we were likely to lose because of the lowering of the federal tax and we picked up above the $2 million, some more money because we raised our taxes. We are still very concerned about the number of young people who are smoking in the Northwest Territories. We believe that price is a deterrent to more people smoking greater volumes and taking up the habit. But, Madam Speaker, I can't say that raising the prices made a lot of people stop because our numbers don't indicate that. I would say that we are merely holding our own against people smoking. I believe there is still an increase, particularly in young women, smoking in all of Canada and the same in the Northwest Territories. I believe, Madam Speaker, we have more smokers per capita in the Northwest Territories than statistically across Canada. It is still a great concern to us.

Thank you.

Further Return To Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Question 323-12(6): Enforcement Of Tobacco Tax Act
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 692

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions, Mr. Clerk.

Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions

Page 692

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Madam Speaker, Return to Written Question 4-12(6) asked by Mr. Patterson to the Premier concerning policies on advertising supplements.

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Patterson asked three questions regarding the placement of advertising supplements in Above and Beyond magazine.

1. What was the cost of advertising supplements in Above and Beyond magazine featuring NWT Housing Corporation, MACA and Education?

Above and Beyond magazine has a circulation of 30,000 copies per issue, 17,000 of which are distributed in the Northwest Territories. In the territories, the magazine is sent by direct mail by the publisher to municipal and community governments, their council members, the membership of territorial and regional aboriginal and non-aboriginal organizations, business and industry. It is also available as an inflight magazine on First Air.

The following information indicates the cost of placing advertising supplements in the magazine by various departments and the number of additional copies of the insert that were delivered to each department for additional distribution purposes.

Housing Corporation; date - October 1994; cost - $35,310; extra copies - 1,000; Education; date - April 1993; cost - $35,000; extra copies - 2,500; MACA; date - December 1992; cost - $27,310; extra copies - 700; MACA; date - October 1991; cost - $35,400; extra copies - 600.

2. Is it the policy of the Government of the Northwest Territories to purchase advertising copy from publishers who present the advertising as if it was an editorial copy without identifying it as a paid advertising supplement?

No. Identification of the copy as an advertising supplement is the prerogative of the publisher.

3. Is it not the policy of the Government of the Northwest Territories to tender such significant advertising supplements to northern publishers so as to give every northern business equal opportunity for government advertising business?

Contract regulations generally require tendering for contracts over $5,000, but exceptions can be made in the case of sole-source contracts when only one party is considered capable of performing the work. As there is more than one magazine publisher in the NWT, departments will be directed to make sure they invite proposals for the production of special advertising supplements.

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

1. What is the average cost of a teacher's aide within the school system?

Student support assistants are funded through the inclusive schooling funding formula. Five and one-half person years are provided through this formula for every 1,000 students enrolled. The funding allocated for each student support assistant person year is $32,000. The salaries and benefits for student support assistants provided by school boards, excluding vacation travel assistance, totals $38,000. Student support funding is in addition to the school funding formula.

2. How many special needs students are there in the NWT school system?

In some jurisdictions in Canada, students with "special needs" are identified and counted under categories of exceptionality. In these jurisdictions, funding for "special needs" is based on obtaining categorical data and establishing incidence levels of "special needs" students. However, this approach is changing across Canada, and the Northwest Territories is considered a leader in implementing an inclusive schooling philosophy in North America.

Rather than identifying "special needs" students, the Northwest Territories, and a number of other provinces, assess students in terms of the support services they need to succeed, such as adaptations of their school programs.

Most students need some support at some time in their schooling. The type and amount of support varies according to the needs of each student, and naturally some students have greater needs than others. Our goal, through an inclusive approach to schooling, is to provide the support services each child needs to succeed.

In the spring of 1993, we completed a report called, "Student Support Services Information System: Classroom and School-Community Profiles," which analyzed the data we had collected on the number and types of support services required by students in classrooms in all NWT schools. We had gathered this data through a survey completed by classroom teachers. Teachers were asked to complete a profile in which they identified the number of students they had in their classes who were receiving a particular service, as well as in their opinion the number of students who needed a particular support services, but were not receiving it. Thirty-two support services were identified in the profile and they were grouped into four broad categories: personal assistance; counselling services; programming assistance; and, rehabilitation services.

The report indicated that about 30 per cent of the school population is receiving at least one of the 32 services, while about the same percentage require a service or services which they are not receiving. This does not mean that 60 per cent of our student population needs support services; many of the students who were identified as needing a particular support service, which they were not receiving, were already receiving other support services. The report concluded that an estimated 30 per cent of our student population requires one or more support services.

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

The Department of Health and Social Services defines special needs as "any physical and/or mental disability."

1. The annual cost of the department for special needs assessments and treatment in 1993-94 was $14.581 million.

2. The percentage of this cost spent in the NWT was approximately 80 per cent or $11.535 million.

3. The annual cost for the operation and maintenance of group homes for special needs adults in the NWT was $947,500 for 1993-94.

4. The number of special needs adults living in group homes was 24 in 1993-94.

5. A number of psychological assessments of mentally challenged clients are carried out in the NWT by southern-based psychiatric consultants who visit the regions on an intermittent basis.

Psychological assessments are also available through a psychiatrist who is resident in Yellowknife.

6. Clients are also referred for full psychological/psychiatric assessments at hospitals in Edmonton, Winnipeg, Toronto and Montreal.

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Return to Written Question 10-12(6) asked by Mr. Koe to the Minister of Health and Social Services concerning speech therapist services and private practices.

1.(a) Records kept by the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital and the health boards indicate that referrals/funding of school-aged students from the western Arctic and Kitikmeot for speech therapy services outside the territory are minimal. There are no children currently being funded, but the average would be less than one referral per month.

(b) In the eastern Arctic, there are no school-aged children receiving speech therapy services in Manitoba, according to information provided by Keewatin Regional Health Board.

2. Current legislation in the NWT does not prohibit a speech and language pathologist from establishing a private practice in the NWT.

3. The health insurance program does not permit direct billing by speech therapists or reimburse clients for services obtained directly through speech therapists in private practice.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for High Arctic, Mr. Pudluk.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Tabled Document 53-12(6) is a letter I received on November 1, 1994, from the Arctic Bay Ikajutit HTA requesting a new community freezer. Thank you.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 693

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 693

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to table a document that has been circulated to Members. Tabled Document 54-12(6) is entitled Proposed Bill, the Northwest Territories Power Corporation Privatization Act. Thank you.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first

reading of bills. The honourable Member for Hay River, Mr. Pollard.

Bill 19: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95
Item 15: Notices Of Motions For First Reading Of Bills

Page 694

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I give notice that on Friday, November 4, 1994, I shall move that Bill 19, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95, be read for the first time. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Bill 19: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95
Item 15: Notices Of Motions For First Reading Of Bills

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion. Oh, I'm sorry, it's notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 14-12(6), "Open for Business" - Privatizing the Northwest Territories Power Corporation; Tabled Document 23-12(6), Report of the 1993-94 Electoral District Boundaries Commission Northwest Territories; Tabled Document 36-12(6), "Action Plan - Consolidation - Health and Social Services"; Minister's Statement 11-12(6), Return to Session; Committee Report 10-12(6), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Capital Estimates; Committee Report 11-12(6), Report on the First Annual Report (1992-93) of the Languages Commissioner of the NWT; Committee Report 13-12(6), Report on the Elimination of the Alcohol and Drug Board of Management; Committee Report 15-12(6), Report on the Northwest Territories Arts Council; Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96; Bill 2, Aboriginal Custom Adoption Recognition Act; Bill 3, Guardianship and Trusteeship Act; Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act; Bill 13, An Act to Amend the Motor Vehicles Act; Bill 14, An Act to Repeal the Public Service Vehicles Act; Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act; and, Bill 18, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1993-94, with Mr. Ningark in the chair. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. This committee will come to order. Yesterday, in committee of the whole, we concluded a number of items. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I would like to recommend to committee that we consider Bill 3, Bill 15, and then move into Bill 1 to consider the budget of the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Do we agree that we deal with Bill 3, Bill 15 and Committee Report 10-12(6) that's dealing with the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, in that order?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 3: Guardianship And Trusteeship Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We were dealing with Bill 3 already. The bill is the Guardianship and Trusteeship Act. There was a motion to defer. Mr. Lewis, do you wish to speak? Mr. Lewis.

Bill 3: Guardianship And Trusteeship Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. After quite a bit of discussion with the two sponsoring Ministers, I decided to withdraw that motion to amend because the government intends to introduce it's own amendments. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

---Withdrawn

Bill 3: Guardianship And Trusteeship Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion has been withdrawn by the honourable Member, Mr. Brian Lewis. Mr. Minister, would you like to bring in your witnesses?

Bill 3: Guardianship And Trusteeship Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Bill 3: Guardianship And Trusteeship Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we agree that the Minister will bring in his witnesses?

Bill 3: Guardianship And Trusteeship Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 3: Guardianship And Trusteeship Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Sergeant-at-Arms, escort the witnesses, please.

For the record, Mr. Minister, would you please introduce the witnesses to the committee.

Bill 3: Guardianship And Trusteeship Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have with me today Shawn Flynn from the legislation division, Department of Justice, and Larry Pontus, Department of Justice, on my left.

Bill 3: Guardianship And Trusteeship Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Are we ready for clause by clause?

Bill 3: Guardianship And Trusteeship Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Clause By Clause

Bill 3: Guardianship And Trusteeship Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We are dealing with Bill 3, Guardianship and Trusteeship Act. Clause 1.

Bill 3: Guardianship And Trusteeship Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 3: Guardianship And Trusteeship Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Bill 3: Guardianship And Trusteeship Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, if I could just summarize where we are as a result of discussions in the last week, suggestions made by some Members. As a result of these discussions, suggestions made in the Standing Committee on Legislation and in committee of the whole, our government is proposing a number of amendments to the bill. These amendments will change the bill in the following ways:

1)There will be a clause added to state that every adult is presumed to be capable of making decisions until the contrary is demonstrated.

2)The court will be required to give special consideration to family relations and the wishes of the person who needs assistance when considering who should be adopted guardian or trustee.

3)If a person is able to make a competent decision with the assistance of others, then there would be no appointment of a guardian or trustee.

4)The court will not make a guardianship or trusteeship order if there is an alternative course of action that is less restrictive of the decision-making rights of the person, and would provide the same benefits as a guardianship or trusteeship order would.

This is a summary of the proposed amendments we will be making during the course of going clause by clause.

Bill 3: Guardianship And Trusteeship Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Clause 1. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 51-12(6): To Amend Clause 1 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

I move that the following be added after clause 1(3) of Bill 3 and before the heading "Guardianship":

1.1 For the purposes of this Act, every adult is presumed, until the contrary is demonstrated, to be capable of making decisions about his or her own health care, personal care and well-being and his or her own financial affairs.

Committee Motion 51-12(6): To Amend Clause 1 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There is a marginal note "presumption of capability" with that motion. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 51-12(6): To Amend Clause 1 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 51-12(6): To Amend Clause 1 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. All those in favour? There is no quorum. I will call in Members.

Thank you. There is a motion to amend clause 1, and question was called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 1 of Bill 3, as amended.

Committee Motion 51-12(6): To Amend Clause 1 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 51-12(6): To Amend Clause 1 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Clause 2. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 52-12(6): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I have a motion for clause 2. I move that clause 2(3)(b) of Bill 3 be deleted and the following be substituted:

(b)the ability of the adult, by himself or herself or with assistance, to understand information that is relevant to making a decision concerning his or her own health care, nutrition, shelter, clothing, hygiene or safety, and to appreciate the reasonably foreseeable consequences of a decision based on this information or a lack of such a decision;

Committee Motion 52-12(6): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 52-12(6): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 52-12(6): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 2, as amended.

Committee Motion 52-12(6): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 52-12(6): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 3.

Committee Motion 52-12(6): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 52-12(6): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 4.

Committee Motion 52-12(6): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 52-12(6): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 5.

Committee Motion 52-12(6): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 52-12(6): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 6 of Bill 3.

Committee Motion 52-12(6): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 52-12(6): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 7. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 53-12(6): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I move that clause 7 of Bill 3 be amended by:

a) striking out "not able" wherever it occurs in clauses 7(1)(b)(ii)(A) and (B) and by substituting "not able, by himself or herself or with assistance;" and,

b) adding the following after clause 7(1):

(1.1) The Court shall not make a guardianship order under this section if it is satisfied that an alternative course of action is available that

(a) is less restrictive of the decision-making rights of the person in respect of whom the application is made; and

(b) will provide substantial benefits to the person in respect of whom the application is made that are comparable to those that would be provided by a guardianship order.

Thank you.

Committee Motion 53-12(6): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Minister. There is a marginal note, "alternative course of action." The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 53-12(6): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Chairman, I would just like to make a brief comment here. I would like to thank the Minister and his staff for the work that was put into this amendment and the other two amendments, which have completely satisfied the concerns I expressed in discussing the bill under general comments, when it was first introduced.

I'm very pleased with these amendments and I thank the Minister for bringing them forward. Thank you.

Committee Motion 53-12(6): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Patterson, for the positive note. To the motion.

Committee Motion 53-12(6): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 53-12(6): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 7, as amended.

Committee Motion 53-12(6): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 53-12(6): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 8 of Bill 3. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 54-12(6): To Amend Clause 8 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I have a motion that clause 8 of Bill 3 be amended by:

(a) striking out "represented person" wherever it occurs in clauses (1) and (2) and by substituting "person in respect of whom the application is made";

(b) repealing clauses (1)(a)(ii) and by substituting the following:

(ii) will act, in accordance with this Act, on behalf of the person in respect of whom the application is made;

(c) striking out "person who is the subject of the application" in clause (1)(a)(iv) and by substituting "person in respect of whom the application is made";

(d) adding the following after clause (1):

(1.1) When appointing a guardian, the court shall give special consideration to

(a) the existence and closeness of the family relationship, if any, between the person proposed as guardian and the person in respect of whom the application is made; and

(b) the wishes of the person in respect of whom the application is made, if they can be ascertained.

(e) striking out clause (3) and by substituting the following:

(3) The court may require a person proposed as guardian to attend and answer questions relating to the requirements of paragraph (1)(a) and to the matters referred to in subsection (1.1).

Committee Motion 54-12(6): To Amend Clause 8 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There is a marginal note before (1.1) "special considerations" and there is also a marginal note, "attendance of proposed guardian" before (3). The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 54-12(6): To Amend Clause 8 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 54-12(6): To Amend Clause 8 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 8, as amended.

Committee Motion 54-12(6): To Amend Clause 8 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 54-12(6): To Amend Clause 8 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 9.

Committee Motion 54-12(6): To Amend Clause 8 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 54-12(6): To Amend Clause 8 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Clause 10. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 55-12(6): To Amend Clause 10 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

I move that clause 10 of Bill 3 be amended by adding the following after clause 10(1):

(1.1) When determining whether an adult is in need of a guardian under subsection (1), a court shall only consider whether the adult is, by himself or herself, able to understand the information and to appreciate the matters referred to in subparagraph 7(1)(b)(ii), and whether the adult will substantially benefit from the guardianship order.

Committee Motion 55-12(6): To Amend Clause 10 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister, I want to remind you that you should also read the margin notes when you read amendments. In this case, it is "in need of a guardian." The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 55-12(6): To Amend Clause 10 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 55-12(6): To Amend Clause 10 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 10, as amended.

Committee Motion 55-12(6): To Amend Clause 10 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 55-12(6): To Amend Clause 10 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 11.

Committee Motion 55-12(6): To Amend Clause 10 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 55-12(6): To Amend Clause 10 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 12 of Bill 3. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

I move that clauses 12(1)(a) and (b) of Bill 3 be amended by striking out "the ability" and by substituting "the ability, by himself or herself or with assistance,".

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion is being circulated to Members of committee of the whole.

The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 12, as amended.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Clause 13. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

I should tell you, Mr. Chairman, that I have no more motions of change until clause 31, 32 and 33. Thank you.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, very much. Clause 13.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 14.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 15 of Bill 3.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 16.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 17.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 18.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 19.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 20.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 21.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 22 of Bill 3.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 23.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Clause 24.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 25.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 26.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 27.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 28 of Bill 3.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 29.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 30.

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 56-12(6): To Amend Clause 12 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 31. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 57-12(6): To Amend Clause 31 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I move that clause 31 of Bill 3 be amended by

(a) striking out "not able" wherever it occurs in clauses 31(1)(b)(ii)(A) and (B) and by substituting "not able, by himself or herself or with assistance,";

(b) adding the following after clause 31(1):

Marginal note: Alternative course of action

(1.1) The Court shall not make a guardianship order under subsection (1) if it is satisfied that an alternative course of action is available that

(a) is less restrictive of the decision-making rights of the person in respect of whom the application is made; and

(b) will provide substantial benefits to the person in respect of whom the application is made that are comparable to those that would be provided by a guardianship order; and

(c) striking out "not able" wherever it occurs in clauses 31(2)(b)(ii)(A) and (B) and by substituting "not able, by himself or herself or with assistance".

Committee Motion 57-12(6): To Amend Clause 31 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 57-12(6): To Amend Clause 31 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 57-12(6): To Amend Clause 31 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 31, as amended.

Committee Motion 57-12(6): To Amend Clause 31 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 57-12(6): To Amend Clause 31 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Mahsi, merci beaucoup. Clause 32. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 58-12(6): To Amend Clause 32 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you. I move that clause 32 of Bill 3 be amended by

(a) renumbering it as clause 32(1);

(b) striking out "of the estate of a represented person" in the words preceding clause (1)(a);

(c) striking out "represented person" wherever it occurs in clause (1)(a) and by substituting "person in respect of whom the application is made";

(d) adding the following after clause (1):

Marginal note: Special considerations

(2) When appointing a trustee, the court shall give special consideration to

(a) the existence and closeness of the family relationship, if any, between the person proposed as trustee and the person in respect of whom the application is made; and

(b) the wishes of the person in respect of whom the application if made, if they can be ascertained.

Committee Motion 58-12(6): To Amend Clause 32 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Mahsi, Mr. Minister. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 58-12(6): To Amend Clause 32 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 58-12(6): To Amend Clause 32 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 32, as amended.

Committee Motion 58-12(6): To Amend Clause 32 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 58-12(6): To Amend Clause 32 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 33. Mr. Minister

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

I move that clause 33 of Bill 3 be deleted and the following be substituted:

Attendance Of Proposed Trustee 33. The Court may require a person proposed as a trustee to attend and answer questions relating to the requirements of paragraph 32(1)(a) and to the matters referred to in subsection 32(2).

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 33, as amended.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 34.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 35.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 36. Thank you, Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 37.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 38.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Clause 39.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 40 of Bill 3.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 41.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 42.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 43.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 44.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 45.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 46.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 47.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 48.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 49.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 50.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 51.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 52.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 53.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 54.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 55.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 56.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 57.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 58.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Clause 59 of Bill 3.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 60.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 61.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 62.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 63.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 64.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 65.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 66.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

That's it. The bill as a whole.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Does the committee agree that Bill 3 is amended for third reading, as amended? Sorry, I am ahead of myself, as usual. Clause 67.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I didn't see that. There were many pages before clause 67. Clause 68.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. It wasn't my fault, thank you.

---Laughter

Bill as a whole.

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Does the committee agree that Bill 3 is amended for third reading, as amended?

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 59-12(6): To Amend Clause 33 Of Bill 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Bill 3 is now ready for third reading, as amended.

---Applause

I would like to thank the Minister and the witnesses for appearing before the committee.

We'll take a few minutes break before we deal with the next item, okay? Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 701

The Chair John Ningark

We will now be dealing with Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act. I believe Mr. Pollard is the appropriate Minister to speak to this matter. Mr. Pollard.

Minister's Introductory Remarks

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 701

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Bill 15 is an amendment to the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act. The amendment before you implements in legislation, a decision made by the Legislative Assembly, with the adoption of Motion 12-12(5) on February 18th of this year, which dealt with the use of the term "Premier."

Mr. Chairman, to implement this decision of the Legislative Assembly requires amendments to the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, the Department of Justice Act and the Public Service Act. Mr. Chairman, the bill before you amendments these acts and I will be pleased to answer any questions that you or the committee may have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 701

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Minister. I would now like to recognize Mr. Allooloo on behalf of the Standing Committee on Legislation. Mr. Allooloo.

Standing Committee On Legislation Comments

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 701

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Standing Committee on Legislation has completed its review of Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act. As the Members are aware, this bill is in response to the adoption of Motion 12-12(5) in the Legislative Assembly on February 18, 1994, which supported the use of the term "Premier" to refer to the Government Leader. Bill 15 amends the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, as well as the Department of Justice Act and the Public Service Act to establish the designation of Premier.

During its review, the committee noted that the use of the term "Premier" will not always be possible when aboriginal Members of the Legislative Assembly address the House in their own aboriginal language, as there is no word for "Premier" in most of the official languages. This is not seen as a problem, however, because as we embrace our cultural differences, we must continue to recognize them.

The committee is pleased to support a bill which reflects this government's maturity and continuing evolution to the point where our leaders are recognized nationally and internationally and speak with an equal voice on matters that concern northerners.

Mr. Chairman, the Standing Committee on Legislation fully supports this bill. On October 24, 1994, the committee passed a motion that Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act was ready for consideration in committee of the whole. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 701

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I now open the floor for general comments on Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act. Mr. Pollard, are you prepared to receive questions on this matter?

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 701

John Pollard Hay River

I am sorry, Mr. Chairman. Pardon?

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 701

The Chair John Ningark

Are you prepared to receive questions on this bill?

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 701

John Pollard Hay River

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 701

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Ballantyne.

General Comments

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 701

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I fully support this bill. It is just a little bit of symbolism of the fact that the Legislative Assembly and Northwest Territories government has really come of age. I think that our government is recognized across the country as a sophisticated government that deals with one of the most complex and difficult jurisdictions in the country. The jobs of our Ministers are equally as onerous and equally as difficult, as that of Ministers anywhere else in the country.

Many times in the Northwest Territories, we are too hard on ourselves. In order for other jurisdictions to respect us, we have to start respecting ourselves more than we have in the past. This government and Assembly have done very good work. Our Premier is recognized across the country as a major leader and it is very important that we take this step. This not only recognizes the Premier, it recognizes our government as what it really is in 1994; a very important government in our country. Thank you.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 701

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. General comments. Clause by clause? Agreed?

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 701

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Clause By Clause

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 701

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 1 of Bill 15. Agreed?

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 701

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 702

The Chair John Ningark

Clause 2.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 702

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 702

The Chair John Ningark

Clause 3.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 702

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 702

The Chair John Ningark

Bill as a whole?

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 702

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 702

The Chair John Ningark

Does the committee agree that Bill 15 is ready for third reading?

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 702

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 702

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Bill 15 is now ready for third reading. Thank you very much. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 702

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe the committee had agreed to consider Committee Report 10-12(6) and Bill 1, specifically to deal with the budget of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 702

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Do we agree to deal with Committee Report 10-12(6), Bill 1 and the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs?

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 702

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 702

Some Hon. Members

Department Of Municipal And Community Affairs

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 702

The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister, are you prepared to make a presentation on behalf of your department?

Minister's Introductory Remarks

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 702

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the department is proposing capital estimates of $39.744 million for 1995-96. As in previous years, the department identified the proposed municipal infrastructure priorities through a broad consultation process with mayors, chiefs, council chairpersons, councils and their administrations. The department's consultation process continues to improve the opportunities for community governments to express their needs during the various stages of capital planning each year.

The department made every attempt to address the demands of community governments. Constructing new water and sanitation infrastructure and improvements to existing infrastructure are the highest priority in the pursuit of maintaining a safe water supply and good public and environmental health. About 29 per cent of $11.5 million of our proposed capital estimates is planned for water and sanitation infrastructure.

Another 21 per cent of $8.1 million is planned for the construction of community recreation facilities. Arenas, community halls and gymnasiums represent the infrastructure proposed for construction in the 1995-96 period. Sport and recreational activities are important to the social fabric of our communities and the quality of life for the residents by encouraging wide participation in local, territorial, provincial and international events. This participation fosters a strong sense of identity and development of personal discipline and accomplishment.

A further 17 per cent or $6.8 million of our proposed capital estimates are identified for land development. About 329 serviced lots are intended to be constructed during the 1995-96 fiscal period. Also included in the department's capital estimates is a transfer of responsibility and $978,000 for the dust control program from the Department of Public Works and Services. The department will be completing a number of projects across the NWT in the planning, design and upgrading of community roads and site development. To this end, a further eight per cent or $3.3 million is proposed.

Funding of $4.1 million or about 10 per cent of the proposed capital estimates is planned for the construction of new firehalls, community offices, municipal parking and maintenance garages and warehouses. These facilities assist the community governments in the delivery of effective and efficient municipal programs. In particular, the parking and maintenance garages help to ensure the reliable operation and extend the useful life of community-owned mobile equipment.

A further seven per cent or $2.7 million is planned for the provision of mobile equipment to be used for road maintenance, public health, fire protection and general municipal purposes. We continue to provide funding for retrofits of mobile equipment to prolong its useful life. This practice is cost-effective and provides an opportunity for municipal works staff to gain hands-on training in repairing the mobile equipment.

For community planning, mapping and legal surveys programs. funding of $1.8 million or 4.4 per cent of the proposed capital estimates is planned in 1995-96.

For Members' information, I would like to remind you that capital funding provided by this department to the city of Yellowknife for ongoing municipal programs under the municipal capital assistance policy is through a GNWT/city block funding agreement that has been in effect since April 1, 1993 and is planned to be in place until March 31, 1996. The block funding under this agreement is voted in the O and M estimates. Total funding proposed for 1995-96 under this agreement remains, as in past years, is $4.1 million.

I must point out to the Members that the demands on the department's capital resources in 1995-96 exceed its ability to respond to all identified infrastructure needs. We strive to respond to an increasing population and to the community governments' need to replace aging capital infrastructure when necessary and possible.

During 1994-95, eligible communities are being required to make contributions to the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs for capital projects implemented under the municipal capital assistance policy. One of the principles of this policy is that communities should contribute to the capital costs of their municipal infrastructure based upon their ability to pay. Payment of part of the required contribution under this policy may be made by way of in-kind goods or services. This flexibility allows a community to meet their contribution by using the skills and abilities found in the community and to employ them in a project for the benefit of all residents of the community.

We continue to devolve more responsibility to community governments for the management and delivery of municipal capital projects. The level of authority is based on the willingness and ability of community governments to accept full or partial authority for their capital projects. Our support involves technical advice and direct capital contributions to community governments. In 1994-95, about $10.5 million was transferred to community governments through municipal capital contributions. These contributions stimulate local employment and active involvement in capital projects essential to the community.

In response to last year's SCOF recommendations, I have made a priority of providing assistance to the smaller communities in attaining a basic level of municipal infrastructure. My department has focused its efforts to correct the most urgent needs of the smaller communities in consultation with the local councils. I believe the department's comprehensive capital planning process has effectively responded and will continue to do so in the future.

Mr. Chairman, I will now be pleased to respond to your questions. Qujannamiik.

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Thank you. Standing Committee on Finance report. Mr. Antoine.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is the Standing Committee on Finance review of the capital estimates for 1995-96 for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. Committee Members have heard about significant changes taking place in the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. The committee was surprised by this sudden unexpected and significant reorganization.

Piped Versus Trucked Services

In examining a project to build a large subdivision in Rankin Inlet, the issue of piped versus trucked water and sewer services was discussed. While committee Members acknowledge that both methods have advantages and disadvantages, the committee is concerned that, without proper long-term study of the two alternatives, any decision to go with one method or the other is necessarily arbitrary. The committee would like to see the department develop a more comprehensive study of the costs and benefits of each method. This study should take into account future maintenance requirements and the impact on employment in communities.

City Of Yellowknife Funding

The committee would like to repeat its concerns regarding the block funding agreement with the city of Yellowknife. Specifically, committee Members are awaiting resolution of the discussions concerning the amount of funding for central business district (CBD) water and sewer projects. The block funding agreement was intended to be of mutual benefit to the Government of the Northwest Territories and the city, and to be a model for other tax-based communities. But if this issue is not resolved appropriately, other communities will hesitate to adopt the block funding model. The committee again encourages the department to be reasonable and fair in their negotiations with the city of Yellowknife

Firefighting In Small Communities

One community issue that came to the attention of committee Members was the lack of adequate firefighting capabilities in smaller communities. Some Members expressed concerns that chemical fire trucks were often not adequate in fighting some fires. They suggested that the department examine simpler solutions, such as providing pumps and hoses to communities with nearby water sources -- rivers or lakes -- to be used for fighting fires along with fire trucks. With adequate training, this might be an inexpensive way to greatly improve the firefighting capability of many communities. The committee strongly encourages the department to examine this suggestion and report back to the committee.

Also, committee Members expressed concern about system for alerting communities to fires. Many fire alerting systems are old and deteriorating. Meanwhile, communities are also outgrowing their present fire alerting systems. The committee encourages the department to review fire alerting systems in communities and report its findings to the committee.

That concludes the Standing Committee on Finance's report, Mr. Chairman. Mahsi.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you kindly, Mr. Antoine. Before I open the floor for general comments, I would like to ask the honourable Minister if she would like to bring in her witnesses. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Chairman, I don't mind taking general comments from Members from here.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, very much. The floor is now open for general comments on the Department of

Municipal and Community Affairs' 1995-96 capital estimates. Are there any general comments before we proceed? Mr. Ng.

General Comments

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. There have been concerns raised by myself, other Members of this House, and in the Standing Committee on Finance report on the possible deterioration of fire alerting systems in some of the communities, particularly as far as being unable to keep up with some of the new subdivisions of the larger communities that are growing at a quicker pace. I would like to ask the Minister, are there any plans under way for the department to assess whether these fire alerting systems are adequate in our municipalities at this time? Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, the department completed an NWT fire protection study in 1993. It is a document we will be using in addressing some of the concerns that have been raised from various communities. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

In trying to address some of the current concerns from the communities that have these inadequate fire alerting systems, what year is she planning to deal with that issue?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will be using this document called, "Fire Protection in the Northwest Territories." There is going to be some training provided to our fire brigades.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to clarify this. When was this fire protection study in 1993?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

It just says "Fire Protection Study 1993" and it was completed in June 1994.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

I would like to be more specific. As far as the fire alerting systems, what plans does she have, or her department have, to upgrade these systems in communities where they are deemed to be inadequate through this protection study? Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Chairman, can I bring in my witnesses? I will need their assistance on this.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we have the concurrence of the committee for the honourable Minister to bring in her witnesses?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the chamber.

Thank you. Madam Minister, for the record, would you please introduce your witnesses?

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my left is Dave Ramsden, deputy minister, and on my right is assistant deputy minister, Mr. Vern Christensen.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Prior to the witnesses joining us at the witness table, there was a question from Mr. Ng. Madam Minister, are you prepared to answer that question?

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Chairman, I will let Mr. Ramsden respond to the question asked by Mr. Ng.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Ramsden.

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Ramsden

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The capital plan doesn't address a particular project for a community. Typically, if an entire fire alerting system for a community had to be replaced, we would show it as a separate project. Where the department has been working on a trial basis and has concluded its review of the options, it comes down to the use of pagers as being a more effective way to alert members of a volunteer fire force to a fire. Given the lower cost, we are carrying an operating budget item that allows us to purchase this equipment through our support to fire departments.

There are a few communities with community pull-boxes, which are not being supportive on an ongoing basis now. We are going to have to look in the current capital planning cycle at putting projects in place for replacement of those systems. The pagers are, by far, particularly for growing communities, turning out to be a more flexible option of getting the alarm out to members of the fire department. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I recognize that pagers may be good for firefighters who have to respond to the fire, but my particular concern with the fire alerting system is members of the public, who have to give the notice out to the fire department before they can activate the pager. How does the department plan on addressing that issue in communities where there are no pull-box systems? I recognize that the pull-box systems are becoming obsolete and very expensive to maintain and repair. The department has been funding municipalities with these pagers, but this is where the concern comes forward with the actual first notice of the fire department.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will have Mr. Christensen respond to that one.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Christensen.

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Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department is working closely with all the community fire departments where the pull-boxes are not working; there is the ability to phone in the fire alarm. If the phones are not accessible, then we would have to rely on a pull-box mechanism in those instances. Through our capital planning process, we try to meet those kinds of deficiencies. If it is a significant capital item, then it gets reflected in our capital plan. We do have a budget for fire equipment in each of the regional offices for minor fire protection equipment. If there are particular cases that are problematic and of immediate concern, we do have the ability to attempt to address those.

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the phone-in system, I recognize that it works in some communities where you have a large majority of the people in houses with phones, but there are many communities that don't have phones in every household. For any individual who would have to notify the fire department, they would have to get to a phone first. Sometimes that isn't practical in the middle of winter or in the middle of the night when people are sleeping and things are secure for the evening.

That is why I have some concerns with the phone-in and pager systems that MACA has been recommending to municipalities to use at this time. The Minister has indicated that there was a fire protection study undertaken in 1993; how extensive was that study? Would it have assessed whether or not the fire alerting systems in our municipalities were adequate? Firstly, that would be to address some of the issues I have raised previously. Secondly, to address the growth in some of our communities where new subdivisions have come forward that may not have full access to fire alerting systems.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The fire protection in the NWT document includes the studies that were carried out. I understand the Member's concern because not having proper equipment or alarm systems in place could mean, possibly, not being able to address the urgency of the matter, if there should be a fire in the community.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There may be a priority in some of my communities, but I think it is also a territorial issue. I don't think the communities in my constituency are the only ones in this type of situation. That is why I asked the Minister to clarify how extensive this evaluation of fire alerting systems was, in trying to identify what is out there now and whether those systems are adequate. That is what I would like to clarify here, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Chairman, I will let Mr. Christensen respond to Mr. Ng's question.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Christensen.

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Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The report that has been prepared assesses fire alarm systems and makes some recommendations about fire alarm systems, but in terms of alerting the fire brigade of the fire and the location of the fire, getting the message out through phone systems, pagers and dispatch arrangements, it doesn't focus so much on the mechanism of getting the fire called in from individuals.

It acknowledges that the primary systems that are in use right now are the pull-box and phone-in system. But, it offers no new ways to improve the call ins for fires.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess that confirms what I thought. I would like to suggest to the department that it may not be an expensive process and I think they have to take another look at this. There are problems out there in the initial fire call and alerting of the fire department. The pager systems may be adequate to getting Members to respond to the fire, but they may want to consider putting in some designated phone lines that access the 24-hour monitoring system that alerts firefighters in communities, similar to pull-boxes. With the technology we have for telephone services these days, it might not be that expensive to set up that type of system. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will let Mr. Christensen respond to that.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Christensen.

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Christensen

Mr. Chairman, the department can certainly review the concern raised by the Member and see what additional improvements can be made in this area. We could review our communities to see what the distribution of phones are within a community for calling purposes, to see if improvements can be made in that area.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Antoine.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some general comments for Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. They have to do with the reorganization that is currently going on in the department.

As Members of the House are aware, the Standing Committee on Finance said in our Investing in our Future report that the committee was unaware of the need for such dramatic changes and the need was not documented and presented to the Legislative Assembly for consideration and discussion. We were wondering why these changes were felt to be necessary and why they were made in such a hurry, apparently without benefit of a well-thought-out plan. Therefore, we made a recommendation that this department come to the Standing Committee on Finance with a report by December 23, 1994.

We say this because this department has been viewed by Members on this side of the House as providing a good service to the people in the communities, especially to municipal governments. There was a good working relationship there. With the sudden change, it caught a lot of people by surprise and there are a lot of concerns expressed by Members on this side of the House and people in the communities that I represent about the changes that have taken place at the headquarters level, with the way headquarters is working now and with the people there who are being moved around. It is causing some concern to myself and the people I represent.

I just wanted to let the department know that the briefing that we received on October 25th addressed many questions but, unfortunately, it was not presented in the House to the public. The reorganization is going on and what is done is done, but personally, I just wanted to make sure that it is done for a good purpose and, in the final analysis, this department will continue to provide good services to the communities, and that it will be more effective and efficient.

Like I have always said in the House, it is this government's responsibility to provide programs and services to people in the communities and we should try to find the best way, the most efficient and effective economic way to do that. If the purpose of the reorganization is to do that, then it is a good way to look at it.

My first, immediate impression of the reorganization was that I wasn't aware of it, we hadn't asked for it, yet it was happening. I expressed annoyance at that because of the suddenness. We all want to know that what is happening in the department is good for the people in the communities. But, there are going to be some concerns with the people at the headquarters level who are going to be moved around. I understand that there are some divisions that have been amalgamated or done away with and changed, the people within the headquarters level have been moved around, and some of their positions are going to be obsolete, and people in these positions have to compete with people for other positions within the department. That causes some concerns for the people in those positions; I'm aware of that.

I wanted to know, is there a change in the philosophy of this department? Is that one of the reasons for the reorganization? I'm wondering, the way the department used to run was with a fiscal which helped the communities out in their accounting and in the way they do business. Is there a shift away from that to help the communities develop into stronger communities? Is there more emphasis on community development? I'm wondering about that.

I say this because I go back to the history of this government and the way local government was developed in the north, everybody is aware of that history. Myself, my background as a Dene, a former chief, I worked at the community level for many years. Among the Dene, we've had our own traditional way of governing ourselves for many, many years. This whole territorial government system was imposed on people who were already living up here many years ago. The way aboriginal people were governing themselves, I don't think was incorporated into the way local government was developed. It was a foreign system that was imposed, and I think for many years the Dene, on the western side, didn't accept this government for that reason, because it was an imposed system without our involvement and without our inclusion in the way local government should be functioning.

I think that happened on the Inuit side as well. I've been doing a little bit of research on the thing called the Baker Lake incident, where about 20 years ago, the Commissioner of the day cancelled community development workshops that were trying to develop local government using the knowledge of the local people. Instead, they developed this guided democracy principle. That's the way this department was functioning. There was a model of the guided democracy. It was not really utilizing the traditional way of developing local government, and we felt it in the west.

But, in more recent years, some of the communities have developed into hamlet councils for funding purposes. Mainly just to get more funding from the government, some of the communities have developed into hamlet councils, although there still remain the chief and band councils in these communities.

As a result of that, in my constituency we have four communities that are still under a chief and band council. That's the community government. These are the communities that I've been talking about with regard to your department developing a program to help them get assistance to run their communities. At the present time, some of these smaller communities are using band core funding that bands receive from the federal government to run their organization. They've been using some of their band core funding to run their municipalities because they don't have enough funding to fund the municipality.

Because these communities are still run by a chief and band council, this department and this government is not helping them because they are not a public government. So they've been left aside and ignored, and they've had to make do with whatever little money they had to run their communities.

What I'm getting at is that the philosophy of the department was based on introducing and implementing a different type of local government than what was already there. Because the government system that is traditional there did not fit into the guidelines or the principles of the department, they did not get funding. It was a fundamental, basic principle there.

So if the reorganization of this department is going on, I'm wondering whether that philosophy is also going to be changed to allow for communities such as the four in my area that are presently under a chief and band council community government, whether they're going to be looked upon by this department now as being the community government. Or, do they all have to get underneath the department through the hamlet council system or with the charter community system before they get adequate funding? This is my concern with this department. Perhaps the Minister and her staff could tell me about the structural changes and, if there are any, also basic philosophical changes that are also going on, and how

the department is approaching community governments. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Before I recognize Madam Minister, Mr. Gargan, welcome home. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There was a committee motion passed on October 19th to report to committee of the whole on the reorganization of the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. I felt that maybe we would be dealing with the report before or after. I'm going to need your guidance on this one, after we deal with our budget or before the budget, because this is something new to me that as the Minister responsible, being requested to make a report to committee of the whole.

I do have the report at hand that was requested on October 19th by Motion 23-12(6).

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Chairman, the mandate of MACA, it's quite clear in a little booklet that was provided some time ago now, called Strengthening our Partnership. The mission statement is in it as well, that our department is responsible for supporting democratic community governments under the acts and policies administered by the Minister. The department provides this support through funding, advice and training to the community councils and their administrations.

The department also provides programs and services to other organizations and individuals that support community government. The mission is, Municipal and Community Affairs is the Northwest Territories' department that helps community residents organize and manage community governments to pursue their aspirations in a democratic and accountable manner. We do this with a team of professional staff committed to results and dedicated to achieving quality of life for local residents.

We have an open and honest partnership with community governments, built on mutual trust and the desire to make a difference through teamwork and innovation. To add to that, during question period I assured the Member for Nahendeh that we would be looking into assisting communities that don't have incorporated status. In fact, I think our department has already assisted in terms of training that has been requested from his riding. I think that is a positive sign of this department being willing to work with people who request assistance from us.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Madam Minister. I believe there was a motion on the floor to get some information from the Minister on the reorganization on the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. Subsequent to the motion, we have had information circulated from the office of the Minister of MACA. If the committee wishes to deal with this after general comments, we can deal with it. It is up to you. Mr. Antoine, do you have any comments about the information? Mr. Antoine.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, the motion you are referring to has to do with this department. We could deal with the information after we finish general comments; I have no problem with that. I just wanted to get back to the question I asked earlier. I would like to thank the Minister for her reply, however, it wasn't quite what I was looking for.

There are structural changes going on in the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs at the present time and it is just the beginning of changes in the department. I'm pretty sure the changes, once done at the headquarters level, will lead to changes in the regions and the communities. I just want to know, are the changes only structural or are basic philosophical changes going on with the department.

I know the department heads all have different ways of doing things and with the new deputy minister in place, who is making these changes, I would like to know whether these changes are only structural. Are we changing organization within headquarters, and moving some people around? Those are structural changes. I would also like to know if there are philosophical changes, meaning are there changes in the way people in headquarters are looking at dealing with the communities now. If there are changes in the way you are going to work with the communities, I would like to know what kind of changes they are. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will let my deputy minister respond to the structural change. On the other part Mr. Antoine referred to, I would like to think there is a renewed will within the department. There is nothing more I would like to see in the communities than their taking on more responsibilities, when they feel they are ready. Empowerment of the community is maybe a better word. I will let Mr. Ramsden respond to the reorganization aspect of it.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ramsden.

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Ramsden

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't think I would characterize the reorganization as one linked to a change in philosophy so much as the demand for some resources to result in action. I think it was already moving in that direction. I think what the department has been trying to do for the last while in, for example, the operating assistance program, is to break the links between the types of incorporated status and the amount of operating assistance needed to provide good community governments, so there is a mechanism in place for the community government of the day to provide services.

The problem is, it takes money to improve that situation so we are looking for ways of best using the resources to best achieve that goal. What we did was take a hard look at the types of resources, whether they are staff resources or contribution resources that are available. I think the hard decision came down to determining that it made more sense to take away a layer of management, if you will, and funnel in more direct contributions to communities.

One of the structural changes, albeit minor today, which I think will pay off well for smaller communities, was the realignment of the reporting relationship for area superintendents. Rather than putting them at a second level in the organization, reporting to an assistant, we put them up on an equal status with all superintendents, whether they are regional or area superintendents. That ensures they have the best access to bring the political operating situation, as well as the operating situation, to the attention of a senior management table. There was no point in my mind, when we reviewed it, in having a reporting relationship at a second tier level of the organization. I think that gives the small communities in the area a better crack at getting the resources needed to do their job.

The other thing we've been able to do is to free up some resources, using vacant positions, to start to put some more people in the area. What we've done, in the Fort Smith region and the Fort Simpson area, for instance, is find the resources we need to staff a municipal planning engineer. There is a lot of infrastructure going into communities in that area and I think the program would benefit from having somebody who is solely focused on the work in those communities.

I think what we tried to prevent was losing the brain trust and the resources that are in the department. We didn't set about trying to get rid of people, we tried to work with the people we have so that we could keep the expertise there. I think that, in the end, will be to everybody's benefit, albeit with some stress through the summer while changes occurred. But, it has been my hope all along that we could find a way to keep everybody inside the department. Thank you, very much.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Pudluk.

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Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a brief comment and concern. This is not the first time. This is not the first time that it has been brought up. It is with respect to hamlets being in a deficit positions and how they try to pay off the deficits. In the past, some hamlets got into a deficit situation not realizing it. There are two communities that were trying to pay off their deficits. I am sure the deficits are not as much as they were in the beginning.

On October 19th, I was given letters from Arctic Bay with respect to audits that were done in Iqaluit. Recently, in March 1994, the deficits that were audited had mistakes in them. When the audit was done, they realized there was a mistake in the audit. Following the audit, the community realized that the year before, the deficit was higher. When they received correspondence from Iqaluit, they were told there was no deficit the year before.

The hamlets are going through a hard time trying to pay off their deficits. To top it off, they got a letter from headquarters or the regional office saying that they owe more money. I am sure this happens in other communities, not only in Arctic Bay. I would like to have this matter checked into. Perhaps they could check and see which audit was correct. I would like to have some clarification on this matter. If there was a mistake, that would be very unfortunate when the hamlets are going through hard times trying to pay off deficits. If this isn't correct, it is unfortunate for the community. If there is no deficit, that's good. But if there is a mistake, the matter should be dealt with. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps if we could get copies of the correspondence that he has, we would really appreciate that. The person in Iqaluit who does the auditing reviews the statements. It is a person who just reviews the statements. So, for the person who does the audit, he isn't a person who works for MACA. So if we could receive the correspondence, we would appreciate it. If my deputy minister would like to add to my response, he is able to. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Deputy Minister, we are dealing with the capital estimates. There are some implications of O and M, but I will allow a response from Mr. Ramsden.

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Ramsden

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The regional superintendent in Iqaluit advised me that there had been some discrepancies. The audit that is performed for the hamlet is done by a private auditing firm. They are reviewed by our staff in the region, but typically our staff don't have the formal accounting designations that the auditors have to actually conduct the audit.

The matter has been brought to my attention and we have had discussions between our director of finance and the auditors trying to resolve the matter, so that first and foremost we can put the correct answer in front of the hamlet council. At least at that point, we will know which answer is correct.

From that point, we may go back and try to determine why the error is made, but the first priority is to find out which answer is correct. Part of the problem is that the financial statements of the hamlets are becoming more and more complex. Part of the work that we have tasked a new position in our department with is to try to simplify the statements. There is a position in our finance department set up as part of the reorganization, responsible only for municipal evaluations on the financial side. I am hoping that we can create a much more straightforward process for the next round of year-end audits that take place. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have a question for the Minister. I know that in the report of the standing committee, the issue of CBD funding outside the block funding

agreement was discussed. I know when this was raised at committee, the Minister very quickly made a commitment to deal with the situation. I understand that she has, in fact, met with the city and the city is satisfied that the Minister and her department are trying to deal with the issue.

I was just wondering if the Minister could advise when we could expect to hear that this has been dealt with at FMB and a decision made on the issue.

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The last time I made Members aware was during the SCOF review of the budget. He is correct; I did meet with the mayor, Pat McMahon, to discuss this and come to some solution as to how the city would want to receive the funding if we could identify it within our existing dollars. The talks have been ongoing, and I have yet to meet with the chairman of FMB to try and identify where the resources would come from. I have not come forward with the submission to FMB. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could we ask the Minister to provide us with a timetable which she believes she will be able to live with to complete dealing with this issue?

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since there has been a municipal election, I have plans to meet with the mayor shortly after he gets sworn into office. This will be done along with my staff and, hopefully, the staff who we met with the last time.

Regarding the question of the timetable, my understanding is that the dollars required are not needed this year nor next year. I have to meet with Mr. Pollard, first, and see if the dollars can be identified down the road. If I am correct in making a timetable, then it leaves me no room to do a well-thought-out plan that I would like to have along with the city of Yellowknife. So, at this point in time, I would be reluctant to respond to Mr. Dent's request. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. General comments. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My understanding is that the city requires the money to start in the next fiscal year. So there is a need to deal with this issue fairly quickly in order to ensure we can identify the funds in that time frame. While the Minister may be reluctant to give me a definite timetable, I think the pressure has to be on to try and conclude this deal within the next month or two in order to ensure that progress can be made in the next year on the issue. So I would like to know if there's a commitment, at least to ensure that we have it concluded before the start of our session in February.

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If that is the wish of the city, yes, I'll do that.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Ballantyne.

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, MACA is a very important department in the government, and a lot of MLAs have a history with MACA. I just did a little, quick calculation here: I was a mayor, John Pollard was a mayor, Titus Allooloo was a mayor, Kelvin Ng was a mayor, Jim Antoine was a chief, Charles Dent was an alderman, James Arvaluk was an alderman, Silas Arngna'naaq was an alderman, Kenoayoak Pudlat was an alderman, John Ningark was a long-time administrator and Henry Zoe was an administrator. Between all of us, we've had a long and very productive relationship with MACA. I know my own relationship goes back to 1978 when I was first elected to city council. So the reorganization of MACA is something that all of us are quite interested in.

I just wanted to make some comments on the reorganization. MACA, as a department, has worked very well over the years. I would now like to publicly give credit to Al Menard who was a very good deputy minister of MACA, very responsive to community needs. And, his staff, Dennis Adams and Vern, who we've had years of dealings with. The staff of MACA have done a very difficult job very well because, as the Minister knows, the set-up of municipalities in the Northwest Territories is not quite as easy as it is in southern Canada. You have to deal with band councils, municipal councils, Metis locals and there is a mix and match all over the territories. Although there probably is some valid criticism that MACA might not have had the best management system, the reality is they were able to deal very well with communities, and everybody in the Northwest Territories really appreciated that relationship. It was a very, very positive relationship.

I, for one, am willing to give the Minister and the deputy minister a chance with the reorganization. But the real litmus test is that whatever they do with the reorganization, the bottom line is will that type of interaction with the communities be continued. I guess we'll wait, and I think everybody is prepared to be fair about this. But the proof will be in the pudding if those relationships can be maintained.

MACA also was able, over the years, to do something which is difficult in politics. They were able to deal with the concerns of Yellowknife, of the large regional centres and the small communities, in a way that it didn't become one against the other. Each issue was dealt with in a fair and equitable way. Something that we've avoided over the years is conflict between communities. MACA has done a very, very good job of that over the years.

I know for myself, there are four outstanding issues that I'm going to be looking at to judge exactly how MACA is doing. One issue is the whole issue of Ndilo, and I've had some productive talks with the Minister of Finance and I'll be talking to the Minister of MACA about it because it's quite an unusual situation, somewhat similar to the Hay River Reserve. It doesn't really fit in to the system. It's federal responsibility and it's a municipality, but over the years we've been able to ensure that the people of Ndilo were treated fairly. So I'm looking for the continuation of that approach.

My colleague and the chairman of the Finance committee has mentioned the issue of the central business district. We're looking to see how that is resolved.

The issue of the Legislative Assembly site was quite controversial. And I'm pleased so far with the way the department is handling it. It is low-key. I understand the deputy minister and Mr. Lagore have been talking and I look forward to a successful conclusion of those issues.

I shall be waiting for the response on the issue I have brought up today with the Minister about the goings on in Yellowknife with people who have avoided paying taxes. I know there is a solution to that. So, hopefully, the Minister, in her response, will let us know what the government perspective on that is. It is a big chunk of change. We are talking about $4 million. If the city was able to collect that $4 million, it would give much-needed tax relief to an already very overburdened taxpayer in the city of Yellowknife.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Line by line? Do you agree? Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, the Minister came out with this budget presentation for $39.744 million. I would like to ask the Minister if she has seen a trend with regard to the reduction in the capital allocation and an increase in the O and M? Or, has it been stable?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am informed that over the years, the capital has been slowly declining.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

In your opening remarks, on page 4 of 6, "I must point out to the Members that the demand on the department's capital resources in 1995-96 exceed its ability to respond to all identified infrastructure needs. We strive to respond to an increasing population and to the community governments' need to replace aging capital infrastructure when necessary and possible." In most communities, there are arenas and swimming pools and you also said one of your principles is for us to have good recreational infrastructure. You said, "This flexibility allows a community to meet their contribution by using the skills and abilities found in the community and to employ them in a project for the benefit of all residents of the community." If a community is using sweat equity, is that equity being recorded in any way? In other words, whether it is tax credit... Maybe the government has a charitable number they use to give these people exemptions for taxes. I would think that where the communities are not using those kinds of initiatives, it isn't fair to the communities that are paying money up front.

I keep referring to Providence because that is the one I know best. In Providence, in 1983, the community came out with $275,000, which is different than what happened in Fort Good Hope. Their community used a lot of unrecorded assets as their contribution. Does the Minister have a way of measuring that? I have looked through the capital, and it doesn't say anything about revenue coming from this government as part of that contribution towards capital infrastructure.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will let Mr. Christensen respond to Mr. Gargan's comments.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Christensen.

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Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, when Fort Providence made the large cash contribution that it did, the cost-sharing arrangement for the facility was different than it is today. With the new municipal capital assistance policy, one of the goals of the policy was to put in an arrangement whereby municipalities made a contribution to all capital infrastructure based upon their ability to contribute. At that particular time, sport and recreation facilities in the non-tax-based municipalities were the only infrastructure where communities had to make a contribution. But in bringing in the requirements for contributions, the amount of the contribution was reduced substantially.

Also, we brought in new arrangements whereby municipalities would be able to make part of their contribution through in-kind services, recognizing their inabilities to raise direct-cash revenue to make contributions towards capital projects. So it is somewhat of a different situation entirely to the situation that existed when Fort Providence made the large cash contribution to the recreation project Mr. Gargan is referring to.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

In communities where they don't make these contributions and it isn't recorded, how do you provide that? I don't want Providence doing that kind of a thing and the same type of communities, of a similar size, are doing in-kind service without it being justified and put on the books for the equivalent amount.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think Mr. Christensen can respond to that better than I can.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Assistant deputy minister, Mr. Christensen.

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Christensen

Mr. Chairman, once the project has been designed and is ready for construction, there is a meeting of our department, Public Works and the municipal council and this would also take place with Fort Providence for projects

they would be undertaking. There would be a decision made as to how the municipality would go about making their contribution; in cash, or in-kind. Those aspects of the project that would be undertaken through in-kind services would be valued up front at the beginning of the project. There would be a value placed on that contribution, the cash equivalent of in-kind services, and that would be credited towards the contribution that was owing from the community to the project.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Okay, if it is recorded, it isn't in this capital book, is it? Where would that be recorded, or could you provide that information?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Christensen.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
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Page 711

Christensen

Mr. Chairman, the recovery amounts that are shown in the capital book refer to the total contribution and doesn't distinguish between in-kind and cash contributions. It would be recorded in correspondence between the department and the municipality. If there was a particular project that was of interest, we could certainly provide that information.

The decision on projects to be undertaken in the next fiscal year may not be concluded at this point. That kind of a decision may still be under some discussion between ourselves, the Department of Public Works and the municipalities involved.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you. This year's capital allocation for gyms, community assembly buildings, community halls and arenas are all here. I understand that they might not show this year, but they probably will be showing next year. So, what happens to the other services provided the year before? Would that be provided?

Last year, for example, I think it was Fort Good Hope, McPherson... There were a bunch of communities that had revenues recovered, or something to that effect. Why don't we see any in that category this year?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are keeping track of it for this fiscal year. We have records.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Gargan.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Do you have the recovery of revenues for last year then, for capital expenditures that were made last year?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. The honourable Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Chairman, in Fort Norman, for example, the current capital cost is $10,000, this proposed estimate is $210,000 and our recoveries show $5,000. So, that is recorded.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

If the recovery was $5,000, what happened to the other $205,000?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Chairman, we could provide the information on recoveries, if that is what the Member wants.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Is that agreed?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair John Ningark

General comments. Mr. Gargan.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I know you have some dollars to look at civil emergencies. With regard to the accident in the Soviet Union, I know the Canadian government is looking at trying to help clean up the spill there since, if it goes anywhere, it is going to go into the Canadian Arctic. Do we having anything with regard to the department addressing that, or is this the wrong department?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will let the deputy minister respond to that.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Deputy minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Ramsden

The department, through the emergency measures organization, would work to coordinate the response of the various agencies that would be involved in a response to a civil emergency. However, the department doesn't carry in its budget a contingency that would deal with a major response or a major clean-up. We fund our resources more for the typical types of emergency situations which are likely to repeat themselves over a number of years.

So, we are not carrying a financial contingency to look at a major response, but we are certainly resourced to carry out those functions for emergencies of a smaller scale.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

This would be more a search and rescue type of program?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Because of the harsh weather we live in, there are areas where they get high winds, and if the situation should get to a point where residents have to be evacuated to a bigger centre, which has happened in the past in my community of Pangnirtung, in the event that we have a power failure for an extended period of time or other circumstances we don't normally encounter every day. I think there was training provided in Iqaluit last summer through this program on how to handle an air crash, if there should be one. Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Are we ready for details? Mr. Gargan.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, in the definitive objectives, it says that you require a radio and paging system for the newly constructed emergency operation centre in Fort Simpson. Since when has your department started dealing with medical issues in your capital budget? If you don't have the money to meet the demands, how can you be giving other dollars from your department to another department?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister. Do you want to continue, Mr. Gargan?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I was just going to ask if this was going to be the trend that we see now. If a different department requires extra money for things, will they look at whether they can identify money from another department? I thought you couldn't do that without reflecting it in your budget.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Chairman, I will let the deputy minister respond to that.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ramsden.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Ramsden

Mr. Chairman, I think we are not quite so generous as what that might seem. The project that we are looking at is for communication equipment for the emergency response centre. It is certainly not related to health. It is a centre that our staff work from to coordinate an interagency response to civil emergencies. It is not related to health or to a medical emergency in any way, unless there was some linkage to an accident. This is a communications and coordination centre that has been set up in Fort Simpson.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Member for Deh Cho.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, it is just says emergency operation centre. The only thing I can make reference to with regard to that, is a hospital. That is the only thing I could relate it to. That is why I asked the question that I did.

Most of the Members asked the department about things that they require in their communities. I also realize that we don't have the kind of money that is required. So you have to lead up to your requests and that is what I have been doing. The department has used up quite a bit of money during the last several years to provide vehicles for the community of Kakisa. I appreciate that. The community has also had their own money that they have used to buy their own vehicles also. You are now running into a situation in which a two-bay garage isn't enough to keep the equipment in storage. I just wanted to let you know that the community still requires that in order to save our equipment.

Also, there is a section in here with regard to access and repaving programs, but we don't have anything for the smaller communities. There is Fort Smith, Hay River and Fort Simpson. Those are the key communities that are identified to get a lot of sections upgraded and access roads. I would also like to say that I don't know where the Hay River Reserve falls under that category. As Mr. Ballantyne said, Ndilo is another area in which the community falls through the cracks or is in a grey area, so we don't really know who should be addressing their situation.

Because the reserve has its own boundaries, it probably uses the boundaries as municipal boundaries also. They require improvements to their access roads. Mr. Arngna'naaq and myself went to the reserve today and drove through the reserve, but the roads aren't wide enough. It is obvious that after a snowfall, there seems to be a lot of tracks leading into the ditches. You have a situation where, even though they do grade their roads, you don't know where the shoulders are. I can see where these people are going into the ditch because the roads aren't being taken care of.

With regard to gravel, the same situation applies. Did your department ever resolve that issue? I know we changed the municipal and hamlet acts, regarding gravel material. It was a legal issue. Did the department have to spend extra money in order to address that issue or did you just have to change the act itself?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Chairman, so far, we have not spent any money as a result of amendments to the quarry that Mr. Gargan is talking about. Perhaps I could get clarification when he's talking about a legal issue. I am not quite sure which issue he is talking about.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I don't know if this is O and M or not. I was just trying to suggest that because gravel is part of capital, I was just wondering whether we resolved the old issue of travel and the legal issue. We had to refer back to 1963 when the Commissioner's Land Act came into force. The municipal acts came into force, but in order to address the legal issue, we went back to 1963 regarding gravel to communities. Either the municipalities own it or they don't own it. I think that was the whole issue. I'm just wondering if you had resolved that.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The issue is not so much on the ownership, but the passage of that legislation made it more explicit for the municipal governments to be operating a quarry.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Are you ready for details?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Line By Line

Directorate

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair John Ningark

Of course you are. Section 11, page 9. Directorate, equipment acquisition, headquarters, total

region, $40,000.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair John Ningark

Agreed. Thank you. Total equipment acquisition, $40,000.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair John Ningark

Total activity for this page is $40,000.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Community Planning

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Page 11-11, community planing, buildings and works, headquarters, total region, $1.028 million.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Fort Smith. Mr. Gargan.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the department whether or not...Two years ago in Fort Providence, or thereabouts, they did a community plan. Once they do that, does the department plan the necessary dollars for the community plan to come into effect, or are those plans used but not compulsory, for lack of a better word.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Madam Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Those plans are not binding. The council can change them through a by-law.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Fort Smith, total region, $1.552 million. Mr. Gargan.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, in Providence, for example, the community plan affects all the departments. It affects Transportation, the nursing station, Education and a lot of the other departments when you do that planning. I'm just wondering if there are efforts. I realize you said you could change it through the hamlet council, but what I would like to know is whether the plans themselves are also being collaborated in cooperation with other departments in order for the plan to come into effect. If one department doesn't do it and others do, the whole purpose of the exercise is really a waste of time. If you can't tell the nursing station that we'd like to use that area for residential areas, and we wanted to plan based on the wishes of the community, I guess if they say no then we have a problem. I'm just wondering if you have a way of dealing with it.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I will let the honourable Minister respond to Mr. Gargan's question, but after that, I will recognize the clock. Madam Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, the department does work with other departments, and community consultation and public meetings take place as well so that there are no problems that are cropping up later on.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The hour being 6:00, I will rise and report progress. Thank you, Madam Minister, and thank you, witnesses, on behalf of the committee. Thank you again.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Speaker Brian Lewis

Item 20, report of committee of the whole, Mr. Ningark.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 713

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we had quite a busy day today. Your committee has been considering bills 3, 15 and 1, and Committee Report 10-12(6), and would like to report progress with nine motions being adopted, that Bill 15 is ready for third reading and that Bill 3 is ready for third reading, as amended. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of committee of the whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 713

The Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you very much, Mr. Ningark. Your motion is in order but you need to have a seconder. I would like to recognize Mr. Koe as the seconder of this motion. To the motion.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 713

An Hon. Member

Question.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 713

The Speaker Brian Lewis

All those in favour? Those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Nerysoo.

Bill 7: An Act To Amend The Arctic College Act
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 713

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Keewatin Central, that Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Arctic College Act, be read for the third time.

Bill 7: An Act To Amend The Arctic College Act
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 713

Some Hon. Members

Ohh.

Bill 7: An Act To Amend The Arctic College Act
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 713

The Speaker Brian Lewis

The motion is in order. To the motion.

Bill 7: An Act To Amend The Arctic College Act
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 713

An Hon. Member

Question.

Bill 7: An Act To Amend The Arctic College Act
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 713

The Speaker Brian Lewis

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 7 is now ready for...

Bill 7: An Act To Amend The Arctic College Act
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 714

An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)

Bill 7: An Act To Amend The Arctic College Act
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 714

The Speaker Brian Lewis

Right, it's ready for the next step.

---Laughter

---Applause

So, Bill 7 has had third reading. Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Item 22, Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 714

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, there will be a meeting of the Standing Committee on Legislation tomorrow at 9:00 am and a meeting of the Ordinary Members' Caucus at 10:30 am.

Orders of the day for Thursday, November 3rd.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Tabled Document 14-12(6), "Open for Business" - Privatizing the Northwest Territories Power

Corporation

- Tabled Document 23-12(6), Report of the 1993-94

Electoral District Boundaries Commission,

Northwest Territories

- Tabled Document 36-12(6), "Action Plan - Consolidation - Health and Social Services"

- Minister's Statement 11-12(6), Return to Session

- Committee Report 10-12(6), Report on the Review of the

1995-96 Capital Estimates

- Committee Report 11-12(6), Report on the First Annual

Report (1992-93) of the Languages Commissioner

of the NWT

- Committee Report 13-12(6), Report on the Elimination of

the Alcohol and Drug Board of Management

- Committee Report 15-12(6), Report on the Northwest

Territories Arts Council

- Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96

- Bill 2, Aboriginal Custom Adoption Recognition Act

- Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act

- Bill 13, An Act to Amend the Motor Vehicles Act

- Bill 14, An Act to Repeal the Public Service Vehicles Act

- Bill 18, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1993-94

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

- Bill 3, Guardianship and Trusteeship Act

- Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and

Executive Council Act

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 714

The Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Thursday, November 3rd, at 1:30 pm.

---ADJOURNMENT