Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We haven't done any kind of research up to this point. But we are willing to take a look and find an estimate as to what it would cost to build emergency shelters. However, I would like to add that the hunters' and trappers' associations are given a contribution by the Department of Renewable Resources, in which each hunter or trapper could receive, from their HTA, a contribution towards building their own emergency shelters, if they so wish. We, as a department, haven't yet taken a look at providing emergency shelters, but we are willing to look into it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The negotiations that are going on are being negotiated on behalf of the government by the Department of Public Works. At the present time, it is the intention of the department to continue on the options that the department has on its contract with the various organizations that they have for equipment that they use for forest fires. It is the Department of Public Works who is the leading department in the negotiations. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With the negotiations having taken this amount of time, I would anticipate that negotiations will continue into 1995 and perhaps 1996. However, I would imagine 1995. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have been looking at the allocation to the department, which is around $2.5 million. If you compare it to other departments, it is very little. I don't know whether or not this government is really serious about its commitment to aboriginal people, even to the environment. I am not saying this because I was told to say it. I am saying it because it is obvious that where we should be concentrating a lot of our energy and money has nothing there.

Mr. Zoe brought up the issue of emergency shelters. It seems that they are putting it on hold. Even for the operations this coming summer with regard to firefighting, we need more towers. Because you spent about $20 million on extra, I would presume a lot of it went to aircraft. Maybe we should look at putting more money towards fire towers as opposed to using the amount of aircraft that we do.

There are many ways that we can address the issue of firefighting without the government spending that much money. It is the small things that count with regard to that area.

There are also fire bases that need to be addressed. I thought maybe there might be something with regard to a fire base for Kakisa. I haven't seen it in the plan. Are there any plans? There are crews in Kakisa established now.

The other thing is as part of the capital plan in Fort Providence, one of the recommendations, Mr. Chairman, is to have the fire suppression operation site relocated. It was part of the plan at one time. Even that is being killed.

With regard to equipment, as a result of fires this summer or even as a result of people going through the ice. What are we doing with regard to the replacement of equipment? I don't know whether or not the government has anything to offer those people who actually lose equipment. We used to have programs called special ARDA that used to assist hunters and trappers to obtain equipment to pursue a way of life. As far as I see in this budget, there is absolutely nothing here to help people who want to get back out on the land. In fact, it is really quite discouraging, the amount of money allocated to this department. The government should be making it a priority to have such things to assist aboriginal people. I think this is an area that needs this kind of attention.

With regard to environmental protection, I don't know what they have, but I would presume that since there have just been two major oil contamination accidents in Russia, the department should be taking a second look at what is up here and if there should be more addressed with regard to the environment; the study of animal habitats and so on.

At one point, I thought there was supposed to be an amalgamation of parks with the Renewable Resource department. What happened to that? Did Economic

Development decide that because there is good money there, they would keep it?

---Laughter

I don't know what happened there, but I'm very interested in finding out, Mr. Chairman, from the Minister why it is that we have so little in the department. We should be offering more money for communities and incentives for hunters and trappers. The Minister made a statement on fur pricing and the sealing industry a while ago. And, yet, I don't see anything here that indicates how he intends to address those areas.

I appreciate we are going to guarantee fur prices for harvesters, but I don't really see how you encouraged aboriginal people, even the Inuit, to go back out on the land. You don't really have the tools to do that. I was leaning towards the Kakisa issue, but...

---Laughter

I really think, Mr. Chairman, that this department is really short-changed and I think it trickles down to the communities and the aboriginal people are going to be the biggest losers in this whole money grabbing game, or digging from the trough, as it is called. I would like to ask the Minister if he has any comments. I don't think there is enough money and I don't think there is anything going to Kakisa, either. Probably now that you only have $2.5 million, Kakisa has been dropped to the bottom of the list and you are concentrating more on renovations and improving the life of existing facilities, as opposed to new initiatives.

I am concerned. Fire towers are another issue. At one point, about three years ago, Mr. Chairman, there was a meeting in Fort Simpson. Robert McLeod and his organization were there to talk about fire operations, issues and concerns. Herb Norwegian was there, and I believe Jim Antoine was there too, and we talked about having fire towers to help prevent fires. We talked about placing towers further north on Sibbeston Mountain, Redknife Mountain and those areas, so they have the necessary prevention measures to address fire.

Mr. Chairman, I have even greater concerns for the communities and the individuals but the dollars are not here to address those. So, I will just leave it at that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

(Microphone turned off)

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think there was a question in there and I appreciate the concern that Mr. Gargan has for our department and the limited dollars we have submitted to the House on behalf of the department. However, I think our department has been very successful in devolving our money to various communities through hunters' and trappers' associations.

As for the specific concerns raised by Mr. Gargan, there is disaster compensation available to hunters and trappers whose equipment has been destroyed by natural causes, such as floods and blizzards, and other such acts which are not under the individual's control. The compensation which is available to individuals is to a maximum of $4,500, which is claimable through the Department of Renewable Resources.

As far as the environment is concerned, the department has 5 PYs in the department to deal with that area, but the responsibility of the department in the environment is limited to small concerns such as oil spills within a community and Commissioner's land. The majority of the responsibilities for environmental concerns still remain with the federal government. It is their responsibility to deal with any major difficulties we have in the environment.

The specific question of Mr. Gargan had to do with the capital item for Kakisa. I guess it had been requested, however, in Kakisa the fire fighters are a contract crew. That means they are not hired by the department. Our funds at the present time go to satellite bases, such as Drummond Lake and our fire towers, which are directly funded by the department. The money isn't necessarily for creating bases in communities. To do that would be the responsibility of the community, itself, if they have a contract with our department. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

(Microphone turned off)...the amalgamation of parks and Renewable Resources,

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe that that was still on hold. I would have to confirm that. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I was under the impression last year, that a site was being developed under their plans for the establishment of a fire base in Kakisa. I think they have found two locations where that possibility exists. I don't know whether or not that was just for this summer that the hope was established that something would happen, but I was under the distinct impression that there was a movement in the area from the department that something was going to happen. Am I to understand now that nothing is going to happen?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't know what the status is of anything that may have been committed on behalf of Kakisa. We can check that out for the Member and get back to the Minister in writing and make him aware of what the situation is. Thank you.