This is page numbers 183 - 213 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Antoine, Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Arvaluk, Mr. Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Hon. Jeannie Marie-Jewell, Hon. Rebecca Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Mr. Ng, Mr. Patterson, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 183

The Speaker

Good afternoon. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Keewatin Central, Mr. Todd.

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I am pleased today to announce that the following members of the Workers' Compensation Board have been reappointed: Mrs. Vivian Stevely of Hay River for a two year term effective February 18, 1994; Mr. Fred Coman of Iqaluit for a three year term effective February 18, 1994; and, Mr. Tom Hoefer of Yellowknife for a one year term effective May 4, 1994.

In addition, it is also my pleasure to announce that I have appointed Joan Mercredi to the Workers' Compensation Board of the Northwest Territories.

Most people are aware of the vacancy left on the WCB when Jim Bourque resigned in January to take a position with the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples. After carefully considering suggestions from a number of sources, I have chosen Ms. Mercredi for her skills, her background and her valued perspectives.

Ms. Mercredi is an aboriginal person, who currently practices law here in Yellowknife. Before becoming a lawyer, she worked many years in the petroleum and telecommunications industries as a front line worker and manager, and she has also been self-employed. She knows first-hand the experiences of the modern workplace and understands the perspectives of the WCB's many stakeholders.

As an aboriginal in the north, Ms. Mercredi grasps native issues and she will ensure that our WCB is more than just a mirror of a southern institution. She is joining Vivian Stevely, increasing the number of women on the board to two and emphasizing our government's commitment to work towards greater representation of women on boards and agencies.

Ms. Mercredi joins a group of individuals who have worked diligently over the past year to improve service and involve their stakeholders through better communication. At the same time, the board continues to strive to provide full funding for current and future liabilities, without reducing workers' benefits.

Ms. Mercredi, chairperson, Jeff Gilmour and other members of the board, still have difficult tasks which they must address over the next several years. The board is considering changing the classification system, introducing a merit rebate/surcharge program and enhancing its safety education programs. There will be many challenges for Ms. Mercredi during her two year term.

I have complete confidence in the board members and in the appeals tribunal commissioners. The board is clearly committed to effectively handling the money employers trust in them and to provide timely and sensitive services and benefits to injured workers. Thank you.

---Applause

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Morin.

Minister's Statement 19-12(5): Departmental Posters
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Department of Public Works and Services has produced two posters to stress to students the importance of staying in school. These posters are being distributed to MLAs, schools and government offices throughout the Northwest Territories. Posters are part of the department's ongoing career awareness efforts.

The posters feature two Public Works and Services outstanding aboriginal employees. They are successful now because they completed their post-secondary education.

Madam Speaker, I wish to add my encouragement to young students in the Northwest Territories to stay in school and to complete their education. I can guarantee students that a good education will go a long way towards helping them to achieve their lifetime goals. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Minister's Statement 19-12(5): Departmental Posters
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Nerysoo.

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I rise today to pay tribute to Mr. Joe Enook for his many years of dedicated service to education in the Baffin region.

---Applause

Mr. Enook is stepping down this week after nine years as chairperson of the Baffin Divisional Board of Education.

Many of you know that in 1985, the first divisional board of education in the Northwest Territories was formed in the Baffin region. Mr. Enook became its first chairperson and has been chairperson ever since. Previous to that, he was the chairperson of the Baffin Regional Education Society, the structure that preceded the divisional board.

Joe is very proud of the fact that he's a graduate of the Northwest Territories education system. He attended the Gordon Robertson Educational Centre, as it was known then, in Iqaluit.

Joe believes that education is critically important to the young people of Nunavut and he believes strongly that the education system must meet the needs of students. He has worked tirelessly to achieve that.

Two weeks ago, Joe Enook became a grandfather. His little granddaughter, Jennifer, will start school in the first kindergarten class in Nunavut in 1999. In that class, Jennifer will learn Inuktitut and be taught by an Inuk teacher. Her schooling will reflect the commitment and dedication of her grandfather, and others like him, to build an Inuit system of education for the children of Nunavut.

Today, Madam Speaker, I would like to publicly recognize Joe Enook's commitment to education in the Northwest Territories throughout his years as chairperson of Baffin Divisional Board of Education and to thank him for his contribution. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Rcmp Charged With Impaired Driving Causing Death
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Recently, in Prince Edward Island, an RCMP officer was charged and acquitted in a case involving impaired driving causing death. The reason, Madam Speaker, that this officer got off was that he challenged the validity of the breathalyser test administered to him because the test itself was not administered until 90 minutes after the accident. Normally the prosecution goes backwards based on the time of an accident to determine the level of alcohol at the time of the accident. This RCMP officer's lawyer successfully argued that the beer the officer had in his stomach at that time, was not yet absorbed into his system and that any reading obtained later would be suspect. To make a long story short, Madam Speaker, the judge in this case agreed that there was reasonable doubt as to the accuracy of the breathalyser test and had no choice, but to acquit the officer.

Madam Speaker, as always, I am outraged when people who are in positions of authority and have knowledge of how the system works, manage to get out of being punished to the full extent of the law. I have looked far, Madam Speaker, to see cases of a similar nature in the Northwest Territories. When I think of Diane Doyle being in Fort Smith, as opposed to a federal prison down south, I am reminded again that if a person knows which bell and whistle to pull, a person can and does get out of the full consequence of their actions.

I am bringing this up, Madam Speaker, because I think a very important point has to be made. A person who is in the position of public trust, be it a policeman, a senior civil servant or an elected official, these people have to be able to stand up to the full responsibility of their inappropriate actions and be prepared to suffer the consequences.

Madam Speaker, no one can tell me that the RCMP officer who killed the 15 year old boy in Prince Edward Island did not know that he would be impaired after drinking five beer. No one can tell me that Diane Doyle...

Rcmp Charged With Impaired Driving Causing Death
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

Excuse me, Mr. Gargan. Your allotted time has lapsed. The honourable Member for Deh Cho.

Rcmp Charged With Impaired Driving Causing Death
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Madam Speaker, I request unanimous consent to continue my statement.

Rcmp Charged With Impaired Driving Causing Death
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Gargan.

Rcmp Charged With Impaired Driving Causing Death
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 184

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker and honourable Members. No one can tell me, Madam Speaker, that Diane Doyle did not realize that her system...(inaudible)...was wrong. When you occupy a position in the public trust, your actions must be above reproach. Madam Speaker, the code of conduct we recently adopted goes some way to addressing this concern. We must be careful not to betray the trust the public has placed in us as MLAs. Mahsi cho, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Rcmp Charged With Impaired Driving Causing Death
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Amittuq, Mr. Allooloo.

Actions Of Us Military Units
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Further to my comments the other day on the United States military activity in the north Baffin from 1956 to 1958, I thought I would make a statement today to clarify the situation for Members.

What we have managed to find out has raised more questions than have been answered. We do know that the experiments involved dropping a substance from an airplane and taking pictures of this using a flash mechanism powerful enough to turn the winter nights into day. We know, Madam Speaker, that a lot of people in the region developed painful blisters and boils upon their skin. I myself remember not being able to walk for three months due to pain associated with a skin condition. We do know that a lot of seemingly healthy people died shortly after we observed this phenomenon.

Madam Speaker, I can remember myself, and the honourable Member for High Arctic, giving interviews on this matter in the spring of 1987 to Peter Downing from the CBC Midday show. This interview never made it to air. The reason given was that the tape was lost on the way to the airport from Mr. Pudluk's office. I was later told that CBC Television was not going to air this interview, even if they had it.

As a result of this, CBC Yellowknife got interested in the story and I gave another interview for the radio. This interview aired once at 6:30 in the morning. Then I asked why it wasn't aired on the 7:30 and 8:30 newscasts. I was told by the regional manager, at the time, they could not air the interview.

Madam Speaker, I have been told by former MPs and friends that I had at the federal Cabinet that the information does exist outlining what happened in the north Baffin in the late 1950s. But that information is a matter of national security. What we don't know, Madam Speaker, is what the substance was the United States Air Force was photographing as it descended to the ground. Given the recent developments in the United States, that uncovered citizens who were...

Actions Of Us Military Units
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

Mr. Allooloo, your time has lapsed. Mr. Allooloo.

Actions Of Us Military Units
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Titus Allooloo Amittuq

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Actions Of Us Military Units
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Allooloo.

Actions Of Us Military Units
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Madam Speaker and colleagues. Given the recent developments in the United States that uncovered citizens who were exposed to radiation as part of the ongoing experiment, I offer the suggestion that the residents of north Baffin were the victims of cold war experiments. Madam Speaker, this matter must be addressed. We must find out what happened in the north Baffin over 30 years ago for the peace of mind of my constituents. I will be pursuing this matter in question period. Thank you.

Actions Of Us Military Units
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Pauktuutit's Annual General Meeting
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise with pleasure to inform Members of a very important event taking place in my constituency next week, February 22 to 24, the annual general meeting of Pauktuutit, the Inuit Women's Association. There will be a full agenda for the AGM. One workshop will feature economic development opportunities for women focusing on arts and crafts, textiles and traditional clothing. I am told there will also be serious discussion of Pauktuutit's strong concern that there is, at present, no legislation in place to provide copyright protection for traditional Inuit designs. This may well be an area in which recommendations may come forward to this Assembly.

The meeting will also include in-depth consideration of Pauktuutit projects, especially social issues and family law concerns, and will include healing sessions. I will be presenting copies of our Legislature's recent declaration on zero tolerance of family violence.

As a special event this year, in celebration of their tenth anniversary, Pauktuutit will be holding a fabulous fashion show featuring traditional Inuit clothing on the last evening of their meeting. I am told there is a great deal of interest in this meeting. In addition to the 43 voting delegates, about 250 people are expected. Many women are making arrangements to travel at their own expense to attend the meeting. I hear that charters are even being organized from Inoucdjouac and Ivujivik in northern Quebec. A hard working local volunteer committee has lined up activities every evening. Madam Speaker, I have been invited by Pauktuutit president, Martha Flaherty, to officially welcome delegates to the meeting on behalf of the people of Iqaluit and to participate in some of the workshops. I am very much looking forward to attending this event in Iqaluit. This is to inform you and Members that I will, therefore, be absent from this House next week. I will give you a full report on this important event. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Pauktuutit's Annual General Meeting
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 185

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Diamond Mining In Dogrib Region
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 185

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to speak about mining in general, diamonds, specifically, and the opportunities they afford the Northwest Territories, the Dogrib region and my community of Yellowknife.

I strongly support the proactive and aggressive approach taken by the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, Mr. Todd. Mr. Todd has put the mining accord on the front burner. He is forming a coalition from the effected regions, of the private sector, aboriginal groups, government and the mining industry. This opportunity will only come once. If we don't seize it, it will be gone forever.

If the economics are there, mines will be built. Some people may not like that, but that is a fact of life. This is a big play and either we are in on it or it is going to happen without us. There are very legitimate concerns that have been expressed by Members in this House about the environment, about broken promises from the past, about how it will effect land claims and how it will effect the treaties. I, for one, think those issues are very serious and have to be dealt with. But it still comes down to some hard and cold realities. Either we work with the industry to maximize opportunities for jobs and business or we are left out in the cold. We will watch airplanes carrying our diamonds, our jobs and our business opportunities flying at 30,000 feet overhead.

If we want to lessen our dependence on Ottawa, we have to take advantage of these opportunities. There is no doubt in my mind that as the federal government tries to wrestle down their deficit, no matter what the Minister of Finance does -- and he is doing a very good job -- we are going to be hit. I think we have to recognize that is a big reality.

I want to take this opportunity to thank the government, to thank Mr. Todd for the support and the cooperation they've given to the Yellowknife business community. The Yellowknife mining community, as many of you may not know, have been involved in this diamond play for many, many years. However, the magnitude and the speed at which this play is developed has been overwhelming. I think it's been difficult for the government, and definitely difficult for the business community here in Yellowknife to gear up for it.

Madam Speaker, could I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement?

Diamond Mining In Dogrib Region
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue with his Member's statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Ballantyne, continue.

Diamond Mining In Dogrib Region
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yellowknife is gearing up, the NWT Chamber of Mines, the Yellowknife Chamber of Commerce and the city MLAs have been working through the Yellowknife economic development committee for a number of months now. Mr. Todd has met with Yellowknife business people. Our community is coming together. Mr. Todd has set up a committee consisting of the mining industry, Yellowknife MLAs, Mr. Ng, Mr. Zoe and the private sector. The message has been strong and clear. We can't wait until we finalize our constitution. We can't wait until division. If we wait until we figure out our internal differences there will be nothing left for any of us to control. I think we've had enough doom and gloom. We could have the opportunity of a lifetime. Every country in the world, right now, is looking at the NWT with envy and aspirations to be in our situation. Wars have been fought over mines of this magnitude. I fully agree with Mr. Todd that if we take some risk we can win big, if we do nothing, we lose and we lose and we lose. Thank you very much.

---Applause

Diamond Mining In Dogrib Region
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Aivilik, Mr. Arvaluk.

Appreciation Of Constituents For Support
Item 3: Members' Statements

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It's good to be back.

---Applause

The past year has been a long and stressful one due to an investigation that you're all aware of which I will not dwell on. Now that it's over, I would like to assure this House and my constituents that I will continue working hard in fulfilling my obligations as a Member of the Legislative Assembly, and be active in the development and human development of the Northwest Territories.

---Applause

Appreciation Of Constituents For Support
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 186

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Fire Alarm Systems In Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Our municipalities have always had the need for adequate fire alarm systems. These systems are critical in minimizing the response time for our fire fighters. Some communities currently utilize a pull box system, a paging system accessed through telephones or a combination of both. There may be other systems in use which I am not aware of.

In these communities there are problems with both systems. Communities using the pull box system have encountered some pull boxes being unusable as a result of breakdowns which have proven to be difficult or expensive to repair. The problems with the pager systems have primarily resulted from the difficulties in activating the system, as an individual must have access to a telephone. As we all know, not all our residents have telephones. There have also been instances in which fire fighters have misplaced or forgotten to carry their pagers.

Madam Speaker, in a majority of our communities, the most recent problem has been in keeping up with the growth of new subdivisions. In particular, the installation of new sirens where existing ones are ineffective and inaudible due to their location. The sirens are critical in the fire alarm system due to many fire fighters and fire fighting support staff such as water truck drivers, RCMP and medical personnel, et cetera, not having pagers.

Madam Speaker, our government must place a priority on evaluating, upgrading or repairing all fire alarm systems in the NWT in order to ensure the effectiveness of these systems to protect the safety of the residents in our communities. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Fire Alarm Systems In Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 186

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi.

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, I have been asked by some of the people from Fort Good Hope -- mostly the old people, the elders of the community -- to mention three

people they wanted to have recognized in some form. So I have chosen to mention them in this House.

It's a recognition for the extremely hard work, long hours that three individuals put in during the long, cold spell that many of us -- especially people in the smaller communities -- endured, particularly in the month of January when we had a few weeks of minus 40 degree weather.

These three individuals: George Voudrack, Francis Erutse, and Alfred Masuzumi, were three people who made an extraordinary effort to check on all the old people of Good Hope and other people who didn't have the capacity to make sure they had enough wood to make it through this cold spell. I think many people were not prepared for it.

These three individuals pushed themselves to the limit every day, from morning until quite late at night, with their machines and their equipment to make sure that everybody had enough wood to survive. I think, very often, some of us forget living in a place like Yellowknife that there are still people who struggle daily just to make sure they have enough food and wood to provide for themselves. So for that reason I wanted to make special mention of them, at the request of many people from Good Hope. Thank you.

---Applause

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I was disappointed when we met at our planning committee in Cambridge Bay that we didn't discuss an issue on our order paper about the changes we could possibly make in our style of government. We keep on talking about constitutional development and yet the government we have is not the people's government, it's a government, in fact, that's figured out by 24 people. And there's been no real public debate about the form of consensus we have. It's something we decide among ourselves. This is the way we're going to do it. It seems to me that we're turning a blind eye towards the evolution of our consensus type of system so it can work better than it is.

There has been a proposal made by several people, which we no longer seem to want to discuss, about strengthening the form of government by choosing our Government Leader through a public vote throughout the territories. This could result in a more cohesive Cabinet because along with that election of a Government Leader there would be the power of a leader to choose her own Cabinet. It would be a more coherent government policy. The government would be accountable to the people, not just to the 24 of us. And it would give the leader a bit more power.

I'm not advocating this. All I'm saying, Madam Speaker, is that we seem not to want to discuss it. We want to discuss all these huge issues, yet our government and the way it's evolving we don't want to talk about. We just want to keep it within our walls so there's no public debate. Perhaps this forum could be used for the public to discuss how we should evolve, rather than to wait for things to happen. Thank you very much.

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Results Of Election In Wrigley
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, on Tuesday, February 15, there was an election in Wrigley. This is one of the communities in my constituency of Nahendeh. A new chief and band council were elected. I would like to congratulate Mr. Gabe Hardisty, as the elected chief. Mr. Hardisty is no stranger to this position, since he has been the chief before. The other new band council members are Stella Pellisey, Mike Canadien, Martha Drake, Gilbert Antoine, Tim Lennie, who was the former chief, and there is a position that still has to be finalized. Mr. Hardisty replaces Mr. Tim Lennie as the chief. I want to recognize the leadership of Mr. Lennie. I believe he has shown great leadership to help the community benefit substantially. I would like to thank Mr. Lennie and the members of his council for their support and cooperation to provide programs and services to the people of Wrigley.

I am sure that Chief Hardisty and the new band council will be consistent and provide equal support to their people in the community. It is important that this House, and the government, recognize and support community governments, such as the band council in Wrigley. It is a community government, after all. In respect to this House, Madam Speaker, I will be absent from this House tomorrow to attend a community gathering in Wrigley in recognition of the new chief and council as well as thanking the chief and council from the past. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Results Of Election In Wrigley
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Minister of Social Services and Personnel, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 30-12(5): Salaries And Benefits For Hay River Treatment Centre Staff
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a response to a question asked by Mr. Gargan concerning the salaries and wages of the Hay River Treatment Centre.

On February 9, 1994, Mr. Gargan asked for information about salaries paid out in the treatment centres. The salary scale is quite lengthy and does not lend itself to a verbal response. therefore, I have provided the Member with a separate list of salaries for different levels of staff in treatment centres. The salary varies depending on the training and the years of experience of the staff. The salaries also take into account the recent increase of $2,500 per year.

In addition to the salaries, the benefits provided to treatment centre staff include: -A housing allowance of $5,400 per year.

-A payment equal to 7.5 per cent of the base salary to cover the cost of employer's share of benefits and workers' compensation.

-A settlement allowance equivalent to that paid to government employees in the community. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 30-12(5): Salaries And Benefits For Hay River Treatment Centre Staff
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Allooloo.

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

I would like to ask a question to the Premier about my Member's statement. Hazel O'Leary, the United States Secretary of Energy has promised to probe the radiation wrong-doings. Eight other US government departments and agencies have promised to follow suit. Madam Speaker, given this potential for new access to information, is this government prepared to follow up with our federal government to find out exactly what was dropped on the residents of north Baffin from 1956 to 1958? Thank you.

The Speaker

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Return To Question 118-12(5): Follow-up On Photoflashes In North Baffin
Question 118-12(5): Follow-up On Photoflashes In North Baffin
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, when the issue was first brought up a few days ago, I immediately looked into what avenues we could expedite and research what happened at that time. The direction has been put out to the office in Ottawa to quickly consolidate what is in our knowledge now. As well, the Members of the Legislative Assembly and any other people who have had some experience in that area will be contacted, so we can consolidate at least the information we have. We will move as quickly as possible to try to finalize some of the questions that have been long-outstanding to the residents who were affected by that particular event. Thank you.

Return To Question 118-12(5): Follow-up On Photoflashes In North Baffin
Question 118-12(5): Follow-up On Photoflashes In North Baffin
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I believe the Minister responsible for Housing has just been away to attend meetings with the federal Minister about the housing crisis. I wonder if there is any news to report to this House? Thank you.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of the Housing Corporation, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 119-12(5): Update On Nwt Housing Crisis
Question 119-12(5): Update On NWT Housing Crisis
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wasn't meeting with the Minister of Housing. I went to Cambridge Bay to meet with the KIA. I have no news to report. Thank you.

Return To Question 119-12(5): Update On Nwt Housing Crisis
Question 119-12(5): Update On NWT Housing Crisis
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs and it relates to the fire alarm systems. I would like to know if it is the department's responsibility to maintain these systems in NWT communities? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Return To Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In Nwt Communities
Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In NWT Communities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I believe it is the responsibility of the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs to maintain fire alarm systems in the Northwest Territories.

Return To Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In Nwt Communities
Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In NWT Communities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

The Speaker

Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In Nwt Communities
Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In NWT Communities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister how often the department undertakes reviews of the fire alarm systems for adequacy and effectiveness to identify upgrading requirements as a result of community growth? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In Nwt Communities
Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In NWT Communities
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Further Return To Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In Nwt Communities
Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In NWT Communities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Madam Speaker, I don't know if it is the department's responsibility to make sure that the equipment is inspected every year. I believe that is the Department of Safety and Public Services. From what I understand, it is the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs' responsibility to maintain. But, for the inspections...(Microphone turned off)...how well the equipment is operating is the Department of Safety and Public Services. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In Nwt Communities
Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In NWT Communities
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In Nwt Communities
Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In NWT Communities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

I would like to ask the Minister then, if there are problems identified in fire alarm systems in communities, would it be his department's responsibility to rectify those problems? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In Nwt Communities
Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In NWT Communities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

The Speaker

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq

.

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Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In NWT Communities
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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I believe it is my department's responsibility. If there is a particular case the Member is alluding to, I would most certainly like to find out and would thank you for raising any problems they may be having. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In Nwt Communities
Question 120-12(5): Maintenance Of Fire Alarm Systems In NWT Communities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Aivilik, Mr. Arvaluk.

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have to apologize, I cannot stand up straight right now. My question is directed to the Minister of Education. In the last session, the Minister assured me that he would investigate on the difference between Chesterfield Inlet education council and the Keewatin Divisional Board of Education on the occupancy percentage of the Victor Sammurtok School. Has he done that yet, Madam Speaker?

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

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Question 121-12(5): Occupancy Of Victor Sammurtok School
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Page 189

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We have raised the issue. However, I have not received the analysis yet of the differences. Thank you.

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Question 121-12(5): Occupancy Of Victor Sammurtok School
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Supplementary To Question 121-12(5): Occupancy Of Victor Sammurtok School
Question 121-12(5): Occupancy Of Victor Sammurtok School
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. When does he expect to receive the analysis?

Supplementary To Question 121-12(5): Occupancy Of Victor Sammurtok School
Question 121-12(5): Occupancy Of Victor Sammurtok School
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 121-12(5): Occupancy Of Victor Sammurtok School
Question 121-12(5): Occupancy Of Victor Sammurtok School
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will get on the matter immediately and see if I can report back to the honourable Member about the matter he raises.

Further Return To Question 121-12(5): Occupancy Of Victor Sammurtok School
Question 121-12(5): Occupancy Of Victor Sammurtok School
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Aivilik, Mr. Arvaluk.

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health. The hamlet of Coral Harbour wrote a letter to the Minister about three weeks ago, regarding the attitude and incompetence of the nursing staff in Coral Harbour. Has he received and responded to that letter? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Health, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 122-12(5): Minister's Response Re Incompetence Of Coral Harbour Nursing Staff
Question 122-12(5): Minister's Response Re Incompetence Of Coral Harbour Nursing Staff
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, when complaints come in with regard to Health, they are ultimately the responsibility of the boards. That complaint has been passed on to the health board and we will monitor the situation and watch their answers. Thank you.

Return To Question 122-12(5): Minister's Response Re Incompetence Of Coral Harbour Nursing Staff
Question 122-12(5): Minister's Response Re Incompetence Of Coral Harbour Nursing Staff
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Social Services. Madam Speaker, in February of 1991, the federal Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs put a budget of $36 million together to go to native communities for family violence initiatives. It has been four years now since the money has been into operation, has the government submitted a budget for part of the $36 million?

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Social Services, Ms. Mike.

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will take that as notice and will inform the Member as soon as I get the information. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Aivilik, Mr. Arvaluk.

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education. The community education council of Coral Harbour sent me a copy of a letter they had received from Mr. Ernie Comerford, manager of student services. The students just received this letter a few days ago, but the letter was written December 24, Christmas eve. This letter stated, "Please be advised that students who have applied for student financial assistance for the courses will not be receiving support as the course has not been accepted as post-secondary education." Arctic College has contracted an arts professor from the University of Calgary. The course has been recognized as a first year university course. How was it determined that this was not a post-secondary course? Thank you.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

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Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am not totally aware of the specifics. But the indication to me is that the program that the honourable Member is referring to is not certifiable. In other words, there will be no certificate that is issued once this particular program is complete. One of the

requirements we have with regard to student financial assistance is any provision of that financial support is based on the fact that the resulting educational program is to be certified and the individuals certified. So, I believe that was the basis on which the decision was made with regard to student financial assistance.

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Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
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Page 190

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

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Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
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Page 190

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I don't know who is right then because I am told that there will be a certificate issued for that ten-month course. Will the Minister find out who is right and act accordingly?

Supplementary To Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes, I will take note of the honourable Member's suggestion and as soon as I can resolve this matter, I will report back either way, so he is aware of the circumstances, conditions and reasons why the department has made the decision it has.

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Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
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Page 190

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Supplementary To Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Premier stated earlier this year that there is a need for more employment and self-sufficiency amongst the individuals of the NWT. Will the Minister of Education try to follow the policy of the Government Leader in trying to provide student financial assistance. They are taking an arts course and working to improve the quality of their arts and crafts work so they will be more self-sufficient. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
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Page 190

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just want to indicate to the honourable Member, in his absence I did indicate to the Members in this House that this government and myself, as Minister leading the initiative, are trying to ensure and negotiate with the federal government a utilization of programs that are available to us that will allow this government, hopefully in future, to provide the kind of financial assistance to those students that the honourable Member has made me aware of. We are seriously taking the issue to heart. We will respond, through our initiatives, to the very issues the honourable Member has raised with us, on a more permanent basis. In fact, on a pilot project basis if that is possible.

Further Return To Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
Question 124-12(5): Student Financial Assistance For Post-secondary Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Justice. Recently, Madam Speaker, I received a letter from the Minister of Justice, along with a document on family law reform. During the special committee hearings last year we were told that we could expect a joint response from both Social Services and the Department of Justice to the family law review. Members of the special committee were very disappointed that we didn't get that in this House in the fall session as originally planned, but we had been told that we could still expect legislative proposals by March 31 of 1994. I was just wondering if the Minister could advise whether as having now received this paper -- Family Law Reform -- from the Department of Justice, does this mean we can no longer expect a joint response from Justice and Social Services?

The Speaker

Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

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Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
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Page 190

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, this business with the family law reform, which you know had recommendations within the report that fall clearly within the mandate of the Department of Social Services, and some that fell to the Department of Justice. We have some difficulties in trying to come up with a cohesive report because both departments were writing their own respective responses to that. What we will try to do is in the end, after we have responses coming back from the public, from the different agencies and organizations with regard to the approach you were suggesting, the recommendations we're making within the Department of Justice that I suspect Social Services will do the same thing. Following that, there will be a lead department, probably Social Services, that will be trying to write a more cohesive response for consideration by the Legislative Assembly, once we come up with concrete legislative proposals. Thank you.

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Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
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Page 190

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Supplementary, Madam Speaker, to the same Minister. Given the overlap in the recommendations between Justice and Social Services to the recommendations from the family law review, the special committee was quite impressed that both departments were working together to try to come up with a joint response. I was a little surprised now to hear the Minister say that it looks like -- although he didn't answer clearly -- it sounds like the two departments are taking a completely separate approach to this.

In the fall, the special committee met with the combined group from both Social Services and Justice, and everything seemed to be on track. Perhaps the Minister could provide a little more detail as to when the process fell apart and why this House didn't hear about it before .

Supplementary To Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Dent. You did ask two questions within your supplementary, and you are only allowed one supplementary. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

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Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
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Page 191

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, it's kind of like talking about what happens in practice, I guess. My response was intended to reflect the fact that we have two departments that are trying to provide responses to one report. And that for some of us internally we felt that having two different sets of writers writing responses created some difficulties, but that's sort of an internal perception. If externally, there is no perception of that I'm grateful for that. Regardless, internally we thought there should be one lead department putting it together instead of working side by side. So that was more a comment of our internal workings and my own perception as a Minister.

I think, and I share the view, that the work we've done within the Department of Justice, the work that was done by the Department of Social Services is very good work. We're looking forward to the next round of consultation and the responses we get to the kind of proposals we've made and are circulating them now to the MLAs and the different organizations so we can sit down and actually draft out some concrete actions to take. Thank you.

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Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister touched on some information that I'm interested in getting a little more detail on. That is, specifically, could he advise the House how widely has this discussion paper been distributed now? For instance, could he list some of the groups to which it has been sent?

Supplementary To Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

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Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
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Page 191

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, the family law reform was set up with some agencies and groups. It's primarily with the same groups that we've initiated contact. So I think it's with all the native organizations, the representatives of the Status of Women, the Native Women's, Pauktuutit, amongst others that we've maintained contact with and to whom we've sent our recent response paper back. Thank you.

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Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Supplementary, Madam Speaker. I think the Minister may wish to confirm some of the information. I have been told today that Pauktuutit has not yet received a copy of

this discussion paper, for instance. I believe he just mentioned Pauktuutit in his response to me.

Madam Speaker, could the Minister advise when we can expect to see a legislative action paper or proposed revised legislation that comes from this discussion paper presented to this House?

Supplementary To Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

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Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, I think I'm getting ahead of myself here. The paper hasn't been sent out but it will be sent out shortly to the organizations that I've mentioned. That might explain why Pauktuutit hasn't received it yet. To be certain, I can't say for certain that they have been mailed. We can check on that. It's not anyone's intention to leave any particular group out.

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Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. New question. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Madam Speaker, I have a new question to the Minister of Justice. Could the Minister of Justice tell this House when we might expect to see a legislative action paper or proposed new legislation as a result of the family law review discussion paper, which has been distributed to MLAs?

Further Return To Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
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Page 191

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
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Page 191

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I am sorry, I missed the question.

Further Return To Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Question 125-12(5): Justice/social Services Joint Response To Family Law Reform
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

The Speaker

Mr. Dent, could you repeat your question?

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I should be good at it, this will be the third time. Could the Minister of Justice please advise this House when we can expect to see either a legislative action paper or proposed new legislation as a result of this family law reform discussion paper which has been distributed to Members?

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 126-12(5): Legislative Action Paper On Family Law
Question 126-12(5): Legislative Action Paper On Family Law
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, I believe the intent is to have draft legislation available as early as this fall, following responses we get from MLAs and groups. We will wait for input before we get into drafting the draft legislation for consideration by this House. Thank you.

Return To Question 126-12(5): Legislative Action Paper On Family Law
Question 126-12(5): Legislative Action Paper On Family Law
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 126-12(5): Legislative Action Paper On Family Law
Question 126-12(5): Legislative Action Paper On Family Law
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Supplementary to the same Minister. Could the Minister advise whether or not the department will be undertaking a process to ensure that there is some public discussion? We know that the department has sent out, or is planning to send out, copies. Will they also be running workshops or will there be some form of generating public discussion on this issue?

Supplementary To Question 126-12(5): Legislative Action Paper On Family Law
Question 126-12(5): Legislative Action Paper On Family Law
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 126-12(5): Legislative Action Paper On Family Law
Question 126-12(5): Legislative Action Paper On Family Law
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Page 192

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, it is my expectation that some of the responses we get will say that we proceed with the suggestions we are making. It will range to the other end of the spectrum with some people saying we should consult everyone in the Northwest Territories before we proceed with any particular action plan. So somewhere in the middle, considering the money and time we have to meet some of the requests, we will settle on the middle of the road approach to fulfilling some of the recommendations and the responses we have laid out in our plan. Thank you.

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Question 126-12(5): Legislative Action Paper On Family Law
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment. This is with regard to building new schools and the criteria used to design new schools. I would like the Minister to tell the House if the previous SCOF recommendations from last year and this fall have been followed? We recommended that your department change the criteria of the new schools to be built this year. We all know we have been approving additional funds for additions to new schools, which have been recently built. The criteria was a problem. We passed a motion in the House to see if your department could change the criteria. Has your department done anything about changing the criteria for the size of schools. Mahsi.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We have developed the new draft criteria and standards for schools for the Northwest Territories. About two weeks ago, we were at a stage where we were reviewing them again. They remain draft until Cabinet has seen them and approved them. We have not taken them to that stage. There are still some changes that need to take place. But I will be bringing those

new standards and criteria to Cabinet for their approval within the next month.

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Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

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Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister for his reply. It looks positive. Will this criteria be in place so the new schools that are being built this coming fiscal year will have this new criteria to be incorporated into the design? Mahsi.

Supplementary To Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
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Page 192

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
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Page 192

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is my hope that it will be in place for the schools. We are certainly going to consider using the draft criteria for schools, even though we have completed the standards and criteria document. It is our consideration that we will be using them as a basis before construction of new schools.

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Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
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The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

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Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

So based on that reply, Madam Speaker, would it be all right to tell the people in the communities, when they have approval to have new schools built, they will be getting a larger school than originally intended for them this coming year? Is it fair to say that?

Supplementary To Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
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Page 192

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

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Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would be a lot more careful than that. To be honest with you, Madam Speaker, and Members of this House, I think it would be premature to make the suggestion to the community that that is going to happen. I think the situation with our standards and criteria requires the support of my Cabinet colleagues before we proceed to give the impression to communities that that is, in fact, what is going to happen. There are some basic requirements we must meet and we will meet those needs with a view that, as has been pointed out to us on a number of occasions, where kindergarten classes are not as big as they should be and we are going to consider those as part of the design of new schools without the major changes. But it still requires the support overall because it is very substantive. We are going to deal with issues like child care programs in high schools and those decisions require the support of my colleagues.

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Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
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The Speaker

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

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Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. The people in your department work with communities to help design schools. I know they go into communities and meet with them to try to design the type of schools they are going to build in the community. It is based on the old criteria. Are your people going into communities and instructing the host communities that they might be changing the criteria, and once the criteria has been changed, perhaps some of the spaces in the schools are larger than originally planned? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
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Page 193

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

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Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is certainly our intention to be more open in the way in which we are doing the planning for the schools. The honourable Member and Members in this House have pointed out to us the weaknesses of the existing standards and criteria. As such, we will review with each community their requirements and the circumstances for those requirements and add them as part of the project, so we don't have to go back next year to build an addition to what we perceive as a need for next year.

Further Return To Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
Question 127-12(5): Criteria For Building New Schools
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Page 193

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for High Arctic, Mr. Pudluk.

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the wildlife Minister. For more than one year, near the community of Resolute Bay there has been a study on polar bears. The polar bears are tranquillized while they do their tagging. This has been an ongoing survey for quite some time now. My question is how long will this tranquillizer be in effect once it is put into the polar bear? I wonder if the people who were doing the study have given a report to the Minister of wildlife with regard to how long the tranquillizer will be in effect after it is put into the polar bear? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 128-12(5): Duration Of Tranquillizer Effect On Polar Bears
Question 128-12(5): Duration Of Tranquillizer Effect On Polar Bears
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Page 193

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, the Department of Renewable Resources does some rather fascinating areas of research that are given a lot of credence internationally. Polar bear research is one of them. Having said that, it is an area that I haven't been briefed on in detail, but I have asked the department if they would prepare specific briefings on the research we do on polar bears, caribou, Barrenland Grizzly, Mountain Grizzly, Dall Sheep, muskox and other areas of research that are specific to our jurisdiction, which may be of interest to individual Members. So, in a week or so, we will be contacting individual MLAs and asking them if they would be prepared to spend an hour or so being briefed on different areas of research we have. Polar bear research was going to be one of the first ones, since it is an area that has received extensive questioning in previous sessions of the Legislative Assembly.

I have no technical knowledge of the kind of tranquillizers that are used to put down bears so they can be handled by researchers. But we can get the department to write the details of that response to the Member and it will be provided. Thank you.

Return To Question 128-12(5): Duration Of Tranquillizer Effect On Polar Bears
Question 128-12(5): Duration Of Tranquillizer Effect On Polar Bears
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 193

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

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Question 128-12(5): Duration Of Tranquillizer Effect On Polar Bears
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Page 193

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. It is with regard to something broadcast on CBC on Fort Resolution. On both occasions, at 12:30, the mayor in Fort Resolution was expressing a concern over the water treatment plant and the concern has been expressed over the radio to get the government's attention, but also the public's attention. Is the Minister aware of the situation, since no one seems to be too concerned about the situation in Fort Resolution.

Return To Question 128-12(5): Duration Of Tranquillizer Effect On Polar Bears
Question 128-12(5): Duration Of Tranquillizer Effect On Polar Bears
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Page 193

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

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Question 128-12(5): Duration Of Tranquillizer Effect On Polar Bears
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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I didn't catch the full question. I would ask his indulgence to ask the question again.

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The Speaker

Thank you. Mr. Gargan, can we ask you to put your question to Mr. Arngna'naaq again?

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Perhaps I could wait for the answer tomorrow, once the Minister reviews the Hansard on what I said.

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The Speaker

Mr. Gargan, the Minister didn't hear all of your question and he has asked you to repeat your initial question. He did not take your question as notice and it is not the responsibility of the chair to interpret your question and pose it to the Minister. So can you repeat your question for the Minister?

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will then repeat my question, if I can, as concisely as I did the first time. My concern was that this morning at 8:30 and again at 12:30, there was a CBC newscast regarding Fort Resolution, in which the residents have to boil their water and they cannot drink their water because of the amount of chlorine that is mixed with the water. The location of the water treatment plant is in the wrong place and the water intake pipes are also in an area where garbage and sewage is draining into it in the spring run-offs. There was a concern expressed. But there was also a concern expressed that officials in MACA are not doing anything to address this situation. So, since it was a public concern expressed by the residents, I believe it requires some public attention. I just asked the Minister of MACA whether or not he is aware of this situation and what he plans to do about it.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

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Question 129-12(5): Fort Resolution Water Treatment Plant
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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I apologize to the Member, I wasn't paying attention the first time he asked his question. I would also like to thank the Member for bringing this up. Water is something that is very important to our people in the Northwest Territories. At this point, I am not aware of the problem, but I will have the department investigate the problem and get back to the Member. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 129-12(5): Fort Resolution Water Treatment Plant
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The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question 129-12(5): Fort Resolution Water Treatment Plant
Question 129-12(5): Fort Resolution Water Treatment Plant
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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Minister of MACA also involve DPW in that investigation?

Supplementary To Question 129-12(5): Fort Resolution Water Treatment Plant
Question 129-12(5): Fort Resolution Water Treatment Plant
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The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Further Return To Question 129-12(5): Fort Resolution Water Treatment Plant
Question 129-12(5): Fort Resolution Water Treatment Plant
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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes.

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Question 129-12(5): Fort Resolution Water Treatment Plant
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Amittuq, Mr. Allooloo.

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister responsible for Renewable Resources about the issue that a Member for High Arctic raised concerning polar bears being put to sleep, then the doctors were going to try to determine how long the drug would stay with the polar bear. Since that answer is coming, I would like to ask the Minister, the department used to use PCP or a substance better known as angel dust, but I believe they no longer use that. Would the Minister be prepared to inform this House what sort of drug they use to put the polar bears to sleep? Thank you.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 130-12(5): Drug Used To Tranquillize Polar Bears
Question 130-12(5): Drug Used To Tranquillize Polar Bears
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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, I don't know and I don't think anybody knows how long it takes for aspirin to take effect once you take it, and how long it stays in effect. I answered that question already. It's a technical question. I have no idea what kind of drugs are used in researching and tranquillizing polar bears. I have no idea of the amount that's used, and how long it takes to kick in and how long it takes to wear off. As I said earlier in response to the Member for High Arctic, I will ask the department to provide that information. Thank you.

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Question 130-12(5): Drug Used To Tranquillize Polar Bears
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The Speaker

Thank you. I want to remind Ministers when they take a question under notice, if it's not advised to the chair that the question is taken as notice, Ministers are available for further questioning. Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Renewable Resources with regard to the studies that are being carried out regarding certain species of animals. I would like to ask the Minister whether Dall sheep are part of that study, since there was a concern expressed by the Member for Nahendeh.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 131-12(5): Inclusion Of Dall Sheep In Study
Question 131-12(5): Inclusion Of Dall Sheep In Study
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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, the Dall sheep have been one species in the Northwest Territories that have limited harvesting from aboriginal people. It is currently down from what used to be harvested, traditionally, when there were more Dene people frequenting the mountains. However, we find in recent years that sport hunting has taken on a high interest so there is a quota set up for the harvesting of Dall sheep. I think they average about 200 per year. These are almost all sheep that are considered mature, that is with full curl to their horns which is what trophy hunters look for. Based on our previous surveys of these Dall sheep populations, we think we are well within the percentage of the allowable harvest quota, more often well below it so we think we're doing all right.

In response to some of the concerns expressed by people in the Deh Cho region we are looking at the issue again to make sure the surveys we have and have based our allowable harvest on are accurate. We're accessing whether we should do other surveys. The Member should know that the surveys, as far as I understand, are very, very expensive because where the sheep go most people can't. It's usually on the side of mountains, very inaccessible and very difficult to cover because they cover huge ranges of areas that are considered almost inaccessible. You can go on foot, perhaps, but then you can't keep up with them. So it's helicopters and aerial surveys that are done in the remote areas where it's difficult to fly in and not always easy to get out of.

Again, we are concerned, of course, with maintaining a healthy population of Dall sheep. They are, again, a species that is sought after by international sport hunters. It does bring in some money to the Northwest Territories in that regard. We also know that many aboriginal people still depend on it for harvesting in the summertime. So we take great concern with it. We're accessing whether we need to do additional surveys at this time. Thank you.

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Question 131-12(5): Inclusion Of Dall Sheep In Study
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The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Madam Speaker, was that a yes or a no with regard to scientific research to have some scientific proof that that species of animal is not declining?

Supplementary To Question 131-12(5): Inclusion Of Dall Sheep In Study
Question 131-12(5): Inclusion Of Dall Sheep In Study
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The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Kakfwi.

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Question 131-12(5): Inclusion Of Dall Sheep In Study
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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, what we have is an assessment with some people in the Deh Cho region who are concerned that the population of Dall sheep may be declining. It's not for us to be absolute in our own judgement, but we have nothing other than that to base our own assessment. If some individuals are saying that in the Deh Cho then it must be true, therefore we will go on the assumption that they are declining. I think the assessment that was done is saying that they have reason to believe they may be declining. But there hasn't been anything done yet to meet with the Deh Cho to decide how to confirm whether there is reason for concern or not. There hasn't been, as far as I know, any move yet to get together to say what are we going to do about it and what is the basis for the concern that's been expressed. Thank you.

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Question 131-12(5): Inclusion Of Dall Sheep In Study
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Amittuq, Mr. Allooloo.

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Renewable Resources a question. As the Minister knows, the population of caribou are quite high and still expanding. Also, the employment in the communities is quite low. I would like to ask the Minister, what does it take to increase the commercial quota of caribou if the community wants to increase their quota? Thank you.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Kakfwi.

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Question 132-12(5): Procedure To Increase Caribou Quotas
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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, my recollection from one briefing I had is, for instance, in the area of caribou we don't go anywhere close to what we believe is an allowable harvest number. Most of the harvesting and taking of caribou is moderate. That is well below what we think is an allowable harvest. I think if there is a request to allow groups or communities to take a larger amount, particularly for commercial reasons, I don't know what the procedure is, but I think a request should be forwarded, perhaps, directly to the department and it will be directed to the appropriate office for response. Thank you.

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Question 132-12(5): Procedure To Increase Caribou Quotas
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Allooloo.

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Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Is the Minister saying that any of the questions we, as Members, are asking the Minister that rather we should be asking the department directly? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 132-12(5): Procedure To Increase Caribou Quotas
Question 132-12(5): Procedure To Increase Caribou Quotas
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The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Kakfwi.

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Question 132-12(5): Procedure To Increase Caribou Quotas
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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, the Member can get his community to direct their request directly to me and I will get advice from the department as to where it should be directed. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 132-12(5): Procedure To Increase Caribou Quotas
Question 132-12(5): Procedure To Increase Caribou Quotas
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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister of Justice. It's merely a clarification. Last week my honourable friend across the way, Mr. Antoine, made reference to correction facilities in a statement. He referred to site selection as Inuvik. I understand that it may have been a mistake, but there was no correction made by the Minister in response to it so it's on record. I just wanted to clarify, Madam Speaker, if decisions have already been made in the establishment of a correction facility in the communities of Inuvik and Iqaluit.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 133-12(5): Site Selection Of Correctional Facilities
Question 133-12(5): Site Selection Of Correctional Facilities
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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, the answer is no.

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Question 133-12(5): Site Selection Of Correctional Facilities
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Social Services. Madam Speaker, we heard earlier today that Justice and Social Services are now providing separate responses to the family law review process. I was wondering if I could ask the Minister of Social Services when we might expect a discussion paper from Social Services with their response to the family law review recommendations.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Social Services, Ms. Mike.

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Question 134-12(5): Social Services' Response To Family Law Review Recommendations
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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Department of Social Services is not the only department, also there is the Department of Justice and the Department of Health. The three of them are working together and I'm not certain when they will finish their responses, but I will give him that information tomorrow. Thank you.

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Question 134-12(5): Social Services' Response To Family Law Review Recommendations
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Item 6, written questions. The honourable Member for High Arctic, Mr. Pudluk.

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Madam Speaker, a written question to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources.

Would the Minister responsible for Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources please provide the following information to this House:

1. Could the Minister provide a report on the percentage of northern residents and aboriginal persons employed in currently operating NWT mines for the past year?

2. Could the Minister provide a report on the turnover rates for northern residents and aboriginal employees working in each currently operating NWT mine in the past year?

3. Could the Minister provide implementation on any agreements made with currently operating NWT mines covering northern employment and northern benefits?

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 6, written questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to Madam Premier.

Would the Premier please advise this House of the following:

1. What was the purpose of Madam Premier's trips:

September 17 to 22, 1993, Cambridge Bay to Alaska; and September 24 to 28, 1993 to Yakutia, Russia?

2. Were the trips by commercial flights or by chartered aircraft?

3. Can Madam Premier provide a breakdown of all costs associated with the trips which were costs to the GNWT?

4. Can Madam Premier provide a list of all individuals participating on the trips?

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 6, written questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I have a written question for the Minister of Renewable Resources.

Would the Minister responsible for Renewable Resources please advise what is the process used by the Department of Renewable Resources to monitor big game hunting outfitter quotas?

In the issuing of licences?

By each region?

Mahsi.

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, replies to budget address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Clerk.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Madam Speaker, in accordance with rule 42(10) I wish to table Tabled Document 23-12(5) which is a response to Petition No. 1-12(5) concerning bussing, presented by Mr. Todd and responded to by the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I give notice that on Monday, February 21, I will move the following motion.

I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, that this Legislative Assembly adopt the designation "Premier" to refer to the Government Leader and chair of the Executive Council of the Northwest Territories.

Madam Speaker, I should indicate that I will be seeking unanimous consent to proceed with this tomorrow. Thank you.

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95; Committee Report 2-12(5), Review of the 1994-95 Main Estimates; Minister's Statement 5-12(5), Session Business; Tabled Document 1-12(5), Towards an NWT Mineral Strategy; Tabled Document 2-12(5), Building and Learning

Strategy; Tabled Document 3-12(5), Towards a Strategy to 2010: A Discussion Paper; and Tabled Document 11-12(5), First Annual Report of the Languages Commissioner of the NWT for the Year 1992-93, with Mr. Whitford in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee will now come to order. What is the wish of the committee? The chair recognizes Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to recommend that the committee consider Bill 1 and Committee Report 2-12(5), immediately following a short break.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Does the committee agree?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

We shall take a short recess at the call of the chair, probably about 15 minutes.

---SHORT RECESS

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee will again come to order, after our short recess. The item was Bill 1 and Committee Report 2-12(5), the Report of the Review of the 1994-95 Main Estimates.

We've already heard the opening remarks of the Premier. Does the standing committee wish to make a report on the item? Yes, Mr. Zoe.

Department Of Executive

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
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Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am glad to present the standing committee report on the Department of Executive. Mr. Chairman, the standing committee's report on the Department of Executive is divided into four major sections. The first section addresses the major reorganization now in progress. The remaining sections deal with the three separate and distinct programs which make up the department: Executive offices, Financial Management Board Secretariat, and Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs.

Reorganization Background

Mr. Chairman, over the last year the executive has been undergoing a transformation from a small collection of loosely organized central agency functions to a large, complex super department. Of all reorganizations that have taken place in this government, this is certainly the most substantial. As part of the initial briefing with the chairman of the Financial Management Board, the Finance committee was given a briefing on this reorganization. Figure two in our report illustrates the new organizational structure.

Mr. Chairman, the committee was informed by the Premier that the restructuring was based on conclusions drawn by the Reshaping Northern Government Working Group and the Cabinet. However, committee Members noted that the Reshaping Northern Government Working Group does not have a mandate for such decision-making. Rather, it is a consultation group responsible for bringing issues to the table of the Caucus strategic planning workshops. It appears that the restructuring was based partly on the Strength at Two Levels report and partly on recommendations from key Cabinet advisors.

The rationale for the dramatic changes to the Department of the Executive was that there was a need to address three structural problems. The first problem was the existence of confusion and overlap with respect some central agency functions, in particular those of comptroller general, deputy minister of Finance and Financial Management Board Secretariat.

A need for increased coordination, among various central functions was cited as the second structural issue which required organizational change. An example of a lack of coordination due to functions being housed in separate ministries, was between the collective bargaining function which was housed in the Department of Personnel and the expenditure control function which resided in the Department of Finance.

The third problem, Mr. Chairman, which was addressed by this major reorganization was that important structural elements were missing in the government's organization. Two examples of missing functions were given. In the old organizational structure, there was no ongoing program evaluation function nor was there an information management function. In the new structure, each of these functions is housed within a separate organizational unit in the Financial Management Board Secretariat (FMBS).

Second, human resources mandates have been split into two separate operating areas. Collective bargaining, labour relations and human resource planning functions have been assigned to the Financial Management Board and merged with the FMB Secretariat. The staffing function remains with the Department of Personnel. Further, Mr. Chairman, the committee was informed that within this new structure the Cabinet establishes direction, adopts policy and determines the bottom line. FMB sits as a management board on behalf of Cabinet. Collectively, they are responsible for ensuring fairness, consistency and accountability for how assigned resources are managed.

Mr. Chairman, committee Members have a number of concerns about the reorganization of the Executive management functions. Some concerns were identified during the briefing on reorganization. Others surfaced as Members reviewed departmental operating budgets and held discussions with Ministers and officials.

The committee did not receive a clear message about the goal the government is striving to achieve with this massive reorganization. The government talked about the problems being addressed as the foundation upon which the change was built. However, Mr. Chairman, there was no reference to the expected outcome. The Finance committee, ordinary Members and the general public are left without bench marks to measure the success of this major shift in the way the Government of the Northwest Territories operates.

Mr. Chairman, the committee is not convinced that all of the major consequences of the reorganization have been identified or addressed. Change has a ripple effect. A change in one area impacts on other areas. Committee Members will remain alert to unanticipated consequences flowing from the reorganization.

Mr. Chairman, while the committee is in total agreement with the need for increased coordination of government functions, Members do not believe that the total consolidation of critical functions is necessarily the most effective means of achieving that goal. With the old structure and the diffusion of responsibility, came the benefit of a number of different perspectives, both bureaucratic and political, on issues of the day. With the new consolidated structure, where power is concentrated and access points to Cabinet restricted, the opportunity for bringing the depth and breadth of varied perspectives to bear on various issues is reduced.

Mr. Chairman, the responsibility for managing the government's critical resources has been centralized. The management of financial, human and information resources is concentrated in the Financial Management Board Secretariat. Only the management of the government's capital assets resides elsewhere. The impact of this concentration can be the overloading of key senior managers. As well, there is a risk of the immense central agency becoming a bottleneck for decision-making.

Mr. Chairman, the committee Members are concerned that some critical checks and balances may not have been incorporated into the new structure. For example, while combining the comptroller general and secretary to FMB roles may serve to strengthen the comptroller general function as suggested by the Auditor General, it places the ultimate responsibility for both financial planning and control into one position. There is a risk in this consolidation of compromising both the comptrollership and the budget planning functions.

Further, Mr. Chairman, the departments of Finance and Personnel have been stripped of functions and responsibilities. Their position as equal to all other departments has been severely weakened. Particularly in the case of Personnel, the need to maintain departmental status, structure and resources are all called into question.

Mr. Chairman, the committee Members are concerned about the impact of the new streamlined organization on political communication, the accountability of Cabinet to the Legislative Assembly and the operation of open government. As noted previously, Mr. Chairman, the access points to Cabinet have been severely reduced. Members see the new structure creating the potential for the political agenda to become overly controlled by the bureaucracy. Committee Members suggested that this potential diminution of political power could be counterbalanced with the reintroduction of political committees or Cabinet subcommittees.

Mr. Chairman, the committee Members are concerned about the effect of the new structure on the balance of power among Ministers. Ministers are supposed to be equal partners in the business of directing government operations. The new streamlined structure, with a concentration of central agency functions in the Executive, gives the impression that, structurally, some Ministers may be much more influential than others in overall decision-making. The possibility of this occurring was confirmed during the Finance committee hearings, when some Ministers deferred discussion of departmental direction and management to the Premier and the chairman of the Financial Management Board. Mr. Chairman, this suggests that the Government Leader and the chairman of the Financial Management Board should be held to a higher level of accountability than other Ministers for government decisions and resource management.

A corresponding consideration is the balance of bureaucratic power. Members wondered if the creation of super ministries was intentional. If so, it seems that the senior bureaucrats in these departments have a wider range of responsibility and accountability than those in other departments. If the shift in the balance of political and bureaucratic power is intentional and continues to exist, the committee will be considering ways and means to introduce a higher level of accountability for these positions.

Mr. Chairman, the committee Members are concerned about the impact of the reorganization on regional operations. At a time when we should be strengthening the regions, it is unclear how the new highly centralized structure will affect decision-making in the regions. There are some disturbing signs that there may be less flexibility in regional decision-making with regional directors reporting through the deputy minister to the Executive.

Finally, the committee does not understand the rationale for the Ministry of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs to be included with the Executive department. The focus of the briefing on reorganization was financial and human resource functions; Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs was not discussed in this context. The linkages between this function and the others contained in the Executive are not obvious.

Executive Offices

Mr. Chairman, the Premier informed the committee, in her opening remarks, that the government expects to bring forward new initiatives, in the coming months, in the following areas:

- income reform;

- employment initiatives;

- economic and renewable resource development;

- deficit reduction; and

- housing.

Social Justice Issues

Notably absent from this list of new initiatives, and from the resource allocation of the budget under review, is any mention of social justice issues. For example, Mr. Chairman, the committee supports the efforts of the Department of Justice in presenting the Declaration on Family Violence on behalf of the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories and in developing and tabling a strategy for dealing with violence. However, Mr. Chairman, the committee was very disappointed to find, during its review of the main estimates, that few, if any, new resources have been allocated, in any department, to help ensure that the goals set out in the declaration become a reality. If resources are not dedicated to this important statement of principle, it raises expectations without much chance of achieving objectives.

Mr. Chairman, the committee's review of the Department of Health indicated that, once again, it appears that there is little improvement in the department's approach to health issues. The department has been advised by a number of groups, in the form of some very strong recommendations, about what is required to improve the department's record of providing health services to its clients. These groups include the Auditor General of Canada, the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions, the Special Committee on Health and Social Services and our committee, the Standing Committee on Finance. The department has not responded to any of these groups. Frustration is building. The citizens of the Northwest Territories cannot wait for these much needed improvements to the health system. The government must address this situation immediately.

Mr. Chairman, in reviewing the operations and maintenance budget put forward by the Department of Social Services, the committee discovered that no new commitments had been made to community agencies and programs to support initiatives in family violence or child sexual abuse. These are very serious problems which are plaguing our communities and the government, in failing to allocate additional resources in these areas, has not demonstrated its commitment to develop and provide solutions.

Strategy to Eliminate Violence

Mr. Chairman, the Government of the Northwest Territories has taken an important step in making zero tolerance for violence a reality. Committee Members feel that the Premier, as Government Leader and Minister responsible for the women's advisory task, should demonstrate the government's commitment to this strategy by coordinating its development and implementation. Committee members feel that the Premier should be responsible for ensuring that departmental responsibilities across government are identified and that interdepartmental work is facilitated.

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, our committee made a recommendation.

Recommendation 3

The committee recommends that the Premier coordinate the development and implementation of the government's strategy for eliminating violence against all people. The committee further recommends that a preliminary report on progress made be provided to the Standing Committee on Finance prior to its review of the 1995-96 capital estimates and a final report prior to its review of the 1995-96 main estimates.

Income Security Reform

Mr. Chairman, the Ministers of Social Services and Education, Culture and Employment presented a new income security reform proposal to the committee during the budget hearings. The proposal incorporates three fundamental ideas. First, economic and resource development would provide more opportunities for northerners to earn a living. Second, skills development programs would give northerners the education and training necessary to be able to take advantage of the opportunities available to them. And third, the income support system would be reformed to provide incentives towards productivity, better integration with federal programs and the tax system, assured income for those unable to participate in the labour force, and so on.

The committee is glad to see departments such as Education, Culture and Employment and Social Services planning to work together, as in this program. Committee Members are also glad to see some of the federal government's recommendations being incorporated into the plan, as well as new initiatives such as Investing in People.

However, committee Members are very concerned about the ability of the two departments to coordinate efforts and to acquire and dedicate the necessary resources to ensure the success of this major initiative. This observation is made in the context of the large number of major initiatives being proposed, by this government, for the 1994-95 fiscal year. The concern remains even though it was suggested that the consolidation of Executive functions would allow the government to more effectively focus attention on managing the government's agenda, setting priorities and monitoring the implementation of major initiatives such as the income security reform.

Key Priority Areas

The Premier noted three key priority areas which are being coordinated through the department and the Government Leader's office, but do not have resources specifically tied to them. These three areas are as follows: - division;

- labour policy review; and

- departmental consolidation.

Division

Mr. Chairman, division of the Northwest Territories will have the most significant impact of all issues on the future Governments of the Northwest Territories. Committee Members believe that the path leading to 1999 is one that should be planned very carefully, and look forward to seeing this planning become more conspicuous and accountable. At present, the Premier said there is one person within the Executive offices working on issues of division. However, planning for the creation of a special joint cabinet/ordinary Members' committee to deal with the issue of division is under way. Committee Members look forward to reviewing the details of this committee's mandate and the resources allocated to its operation.

Committee Members are concerned that the costs associated with division should be clearly identified and put forward as a financial responsibility of the federal government, in keeping with the Nunavut political accord. The committee noted, for instance, that the incremental costs for setting up two separate headquarters for Arctic College is an increased cost of division. As such, this is one of the areas that should have been highlighted and federal funding sought. If a number of these kinds of initiatives fall through the cracks, the Government of the Northwest Territories could find itself in very serious financial difficulty.

Labour Policy

Mr. Chairman, in view of the failure of the proposed Northern Workplace Commission to achieve political support and because the government still believes that the issues to be addressed by that commission are critical ones, the Premier has committed to return to Caucus with a revised issues paper on labour policy. She stated, further, that once it has been discussed in that forum, the issue of the resources required to support the development and implementation of labour policy will be raised.

Committee Members referred to the failure of the Northern Workplace Commission to achieve political support as an example of the type of problems that can occur in a heavily centralized system. The failure, in the committee's opinion, was a result of missing checks and balances in the Executive decision-making process and a lack of political strategy.

Departmental Consolidation

Mr. Chairman, the Premier stated, in her opening remarks, that what were once ten activities in the Executive office have been consolidated to three: Commissioner's office; Ministers' offices; and, Executive Council Secretariat. This consolidation of activities did not involve any reduction at either headquarters or in the regions. However, the Premier noted that it should lead to better coordination within the Executive.

With respect to this topic of departmental consolidation, the Premier made particular reference to the Department of Personnel and the Departments of Health and Social Services. A decision on the Department of Personnel is expected soon and the Premier made a commitment to return to the Reshaping Northern Government Working Group with further details on cost efficiency of different options and the anticipated effect on the affirmative action policy. However, Mr. Chairman, it is noted once again that the Reshaping Northern Government Working Group does not have a mandate to make decisions. Committee Members would like to remind the government that these and other reorganization issues have to go through the proper channels, including a review of the financial implications by the Standing Committee on Finance.

Mr. Chairman, with regard to the Health and Social Services amalgamation, the Premier said that the comments of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services are being carefully reviewed and the government's position will be contained in its response to be tabled in the Assembly this session. Committee Members look forward to the opportunity to assess the government's response to the recommendations of the special committee and determine if sufficient resources have been allocated to ensure success in this very important endeavour.

Another reorganization issue which, although not raised with the Premier during her meeting with the committee, remains a concern of the committee, is the future of the Housing Corporation. Plans have been in place for some time to convert the corporation into a government department or to amalgamate it with an existing department. In fact, the first major step in that direction - the elimination of the board of directors - has already occurred. The Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation informed the committee that the advantages and disadvantages of maintaining the corporate structure are being investigated along with ways and means to streamline and reorganize the way the corporation does business. It is expected that this work will be completed by the end of March. The committee looks forward to reviewing the results of this analysis at that time.

Mr. Chairman, in the opening remarks of the Premier, I also noted that there are three Ministers who are accountable to various areas. The Premier is responsible for the overall Executive department, and particularly to the Executive offices. I have two other sections in the Executive department, but the appropriate Minister will be responding to their own portfolio. That concludes the report of the Standing Committee on Finance pertaining to the portfolio that the Premier has. Before I conclude, Mr. Chairman, I would like to return to recommendation 3, from our committee, pertaining to the Premier portfolio.

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Page 197

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee recommends that the Premier coordinate the development and implementation of the government's strategy for eliminating violence against all people. The committee further recommends that a preliminary report on progress may be provided to the Standing Committee on Finance prior to its review of the 1995-96 capital estimates and a final report prior to its review of the 1995-96 main estimates.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. We have a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Zoe.

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Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, that concludes that portion of the committee's report pertaining to the Premier's responsibility to the Executive department. I understand we have two other Ministers who will be appearing before us. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Madam Premier, do you wish to respond to or comment on the reply of SCOF?

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

I am not quite sure what you are requesting me to do, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Pardon me, Madam Premier, I just thought that you had wanted to respond. That was my error, then. I was being too nice. The next item is general comments on the item. General comments. Mr. Koe.

General Comments

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think most of what I want to say has been reported in the Standing Committee on Finance report but those comments I want to make tie in with the scope and general direction that Standing Committee on Finance Members made. I was very concerned again, in terms of the Executive of the new structure. There are three separate and three distinct programs, each under the authority of the separate Minister and each with a deputy minister or equivalent. There is a very heavy centralization of central agency powers within this new super department, and obviously the powers of certain deputy ministers have been enhanced considerably.

The concern is, I wonder how, in terms of coordination within these three distinct program areas, coordination, decisions and programs are processed within such a structure with three fairly distinct organizations. The move to consolidate and amalgamate administration and central agency functions was probably made with good intentions and to probably facilitate smoother process and smoother implementation of government initiatives. I am a bit sceptical that this would be able to work, given the structure as we know it today. We also know that the changes are still happening and that the various sections within each of these program areas are still working out what they are doing or what they are supposed to do and who they are supposed to do it to or with.

I just wanted to raise those comments. As I mentioned, they have been raised in more detail than I have mentioned, and I didn't want to reiterate too much of what was said in SCOF, but it is a major change in how government is doing business and I think it warrants some discussion. This is why I raised it. Mahsi.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. General comments. Mr. Antoine.

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Page 201

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Executive offices have two activities and they have objectives. The first activity has two objectives and the second one has three definitive objectives. As per the recommendation that we made yesterday, we have asked the departments to develop a prioritized list of planned initiatives with description of the type and availability of resources that were required and a realistic time frame that is required for implementation. I would like to ask the Government Leader if she has that for us, the definitive objectives for the Executive offices.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. The question was directed to the Government Leader, however, Mr. Pollard signifies he would like to reply. Mr. Pollard.

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John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we have a letter out right now to the departments asking them to do what Mr. Antoine has asked and that is priorize their initiatives, and ascertain if they are in the budget or outside the budget. If they are in the budget, which task or activity do they fall under? Also the definitive objectives. That issue is being asked of the departments right now to respond, and that will be ready on Tuesday morning, Mr. Chairman. In the interim, Ministers will respond individually to these particular priorities until we get a consolidated document, if that would be okay with the committee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Page 201

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Mr. Antoine. (Microphone turned off)...Yes, just a minute, Mr. Antoine, I think the Premier...It takes a little while before the controller switches the microphone on. That is why the delay ensued. Madam Premier signified she would like to respond.

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Page 201

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before we get into the budget, may I have the indulgence of the Assembly to bring in my witnesses, as there are questions being asked now?

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

If the Premier would like to bring in the witnesses, yes, it has been agreed. Sergeant-at-Arms, would you escort witnesses into the chamber. Madam Premier, would you introduce your witnesses to the committee?

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to introduce Mr. Pierre Alvarez, the deputy minister of the Executive, and Terryl Allen, the director of finance and administration.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Premier, was that Tara?

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Terryl Allen.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Now, Mr. Antoine.

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Page 201

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Government Leader a question on the definitive objectives, whether she has a prioritized list of the planned initiatives and description of the type and availability of resources that will be required and a realistic time frame for the implementation of these definitive objectives. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 202

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 202

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, up to this date, what we have been able to do, since the letter has only come recently, is to work on the definitive objectives for 1993 and 1994. I suppose that we could answer specific questions on those definitive objectives at this time. They will be provided to you once we have completed the breakdown. The definitive objectives for 1993-94 are available and have also been translated.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 202

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Premier. General comments. Mr. Gargan.

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Page 202

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, this is in regard to the programs and services manual and the departmental overview, as recent as February 16, 1994. Has the departmental overview changed since it started? Has this booklet changed at all? I have stuff with regard to grants and contributions to aboriginal people, the Science Institute, Intergovernmental Affairs in Ottawa, the Commissioner's office, are all those still part of your department?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 202

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 202

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I believe that the Member is reading from an old script. I don't know why he wouldn't have a new one, but if you want that provided, we can get that.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 202

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 202

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, just with regard to this, one of the functions of the Government Leader's office is with regard to the Commissioner's office. The Commissioner's term is going to be up. Has the department done an evaluation on what is going to happen with that once the term is up?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 202

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Madam Premier.

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Page 202

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, the committee has looked at the Commissioner's office and it has been struck. There has been some work that has been sent to the committee. The report is to be made on Wednesday. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 202

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 202

Fred Koe Inuvik

I would like to make some comments on the goals and objectives. I note we are getting hand-outs of definitive objectives for 1993-94 and the Minister of Finance has stated that we will be getting ones for 1994-95 sometime next week. I would like to reiterate again what SCOF has said. For any organization to function effectively and efficiently and for all employees within a system and for all users of the services that are being provided, it is nice to have a clear understanding of what those services are, what the organization's mandate is, what the goals and objectives are. If these mandates, goals and objectives are clearly defined and stated, then programs and activities can be established to achieve those stated goals and objectives. Following that, then budgets can be formulated based on the needs and priorities to achieve those goals and objectives.

Just glancing through the main estimates, I picked out many places, and I think I made reference to them last year also, for a billion dollar budget, many of the definitive objectives and mandates and goals were not clearly defined. I am glad that the Standing Committee on Finance has made that point. I am glad that the government will be providing us with, hopefully, adequate information as we deal with each department in terms of these goals and objectives. I just wanted to make that statement before we got into the details. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 202

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 202

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess it is always risky for a former Minister to appear to be critical of a former department. I want to say that I do appreciate the challenges the Premier is facing in the current fiscal and political climate. I know that it is quite a different situation than faced even in the last Assembly. Having said that, I was part of this committee report, which I like to think has provided some thoughtful and hopefully constructive criticism of massive changes that have been put in place here and are before us. I would like to summarize them quickly and hopefully without exaggeration.

Personnel is a mere rump of its former self and soon will waste away to almost nothing when the staff housing function is transferred to the Housing Corporation as planned. Finance, and I am talking about the ministry of Finance, not the secretariat to the FMB, has been gutted. The suggestion in our report is that the traditional watchdog role of the department and the Minister of Finance has been thereby diminished.

Massive centralization of government resource management; question about whether checks and balances are still in place, particularly with the Comptroller General and secretary to FMB functions being put in one place imbalance of power amongst Ministers and bureaucrats, super Ministers, super bureaucrats, super DMs and lesser DMs; political communication; filtered bureaucratic power enhanced; those are some of the themes that I think come through in the thoughtful discussion of the changes in the Department of the Executive.

I would like to hear a response. I believe that the Premier had some strong comments to make about the SCOF report when she spoke to some businesswomen in Yellowknife the other day. I would like to hear them here. I would like to hear where we have gone wrong if she thinks we have gone wrong. What was the goal of this reorganization? What outcomes were expected? How will we know if they are successful? Is it working? Will it take some time to see the results? What was driving all these changes? Those are the kinds of issues I would like to see addressed as we discuss this first and most important department of the Government of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 202

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Madam Premier.

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Page 203

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, first of all, I would like to make one correction. When I spoke to the businesswomen of Yellowknife, I said that the SCOF report was critical of our budget. That is all I said, and I did not elaborate on that. I just said they were critical and that was in reference to the financial inability of this government to convince federal government to continue with some of the financial obligations they had. I just want to make that clear right now.

I will agree with the former Government Leader that it is difficult to be critical because much of what we are doing now, comes out of some of the deliberations from former people or former responsible Executive Members, such as the Government Leader and the Minister of Finance. I wholeheartedly endorsed that it was time for change, at the time of the report, and that strengthening government was important to do. I would like to commend the former Minister of Finance and the former Government Leader because in putting in place the document, "Strength at Two Levels," allowed this government to be able to approach something new in the last few years, because all governments have gone through the very same internal changes that we are undergoing right now. Certain credit has to be given to the people, or the Executive Members, who were very diligent in making sure that such a report examining government structures and delivery of departmental responsibilities, was seriously looked at.

One of the major issues at that time was to try to get some focus on how we do government business. I thought that it was important to note that, subsequently, other governments have fallen in line, for example, the super-government of Ontario who felt very strongly that they had to reorganize. So did the Atlantic provinces and the British Columbia government.

I would like to say your report and the initiative that was put forward is exactly what they were doing. Subsequently, we moved in that area and I don't think we should apologize for that. I don't think we should be critical of ourselves for reorganizing because it is important to take as much of our resources to the programs that people use and do things as cooperatively and as efficiently at the central level, so we don't burn up all the resources we have and end up with fragmented, departmental, independent governments.

I don't know if that is a good enough answer to your questions. In trying to address some of the words that you use, we didn't strip anything. We re-funnelled or reorganized, so we respond much more quickly, effectively, cooperatively and coordinated at the central level, to the many demands that are made on this government. Certainly it was with good foresight.

A number of years ago, we didn't realize that we were going to be in this financial difficulty with the federal government, the transfer of payments and financing of programs. I believe that we were far ahead of the other jurisdictions. We are trying to present ourselves in a very effective way in getting the job done at the central agency. I know that we haven't streamlined or made all the functions work totally the way we would like to see them. We have got more work to do and we recognize that. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 203

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 203

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will take some credit for some of the good things that were in the "Strength at Two Levels" report, which have been implemented. To get specific, Mr. Chairman, I am quite sure -- I don't have the report in front of me -- that the "Strength at Two Levels" report emphasized, even as it recommended consolidating and strengthening headquarters decision-making functions, the importance of a political filter on decision-making and emphasized the importance of Cabinet committees to screen proposals developed, undoubtedly with the best of intentions, but perhaps not with political sensitivity, by the bureaucracy.

I would like to ask the Premier if she would comment on the criticism that the political input into Cabinet decision-making seems to be less and that some of the Cabinet committees recommended in the "Strength at Two Levels" report do not exist. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 203

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 203

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, as I have stated on numerous occasions, the "Strength at Two Levels" report was tabled and presented. Subsequently, what was presented was "Reshaping Northern Government", which did not take all the elements out of the "Strength at Two Levels".

With regard to committees, I believe that certainly the Legislative Assembly has taken a much more active role in being involved in numerous critical areas, and the Cabinet has tried to respond as well. I believe that, with the internal structure, not too much has changed in terms of all Ministers being involved. We just don't have committees set up to do this because, previously, as the Member would recall, we had some committees such as priorities and planning. The same people would go to priorities and planning as would go to Cabinet. The same people that would be on another committee, would go to the same meeting. All we have is incorporated because everybody is involved. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 203

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 203

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Yes, I understand what the Premier is saying, Mr. Chairman. I believe the shortfall that the Standing Committee on Finance tried to identify with the new process is that there don't seem to be Cabinet committees that are doing political screening of proposals before they get to FMB and the Cabinet table. It is the bureaucracy, this much-strengthened, much centralized, all-powerful bureaucracy, that is doing the screening and evaluation. Ministers have input when the matter gets to the Cabinet table, but not before. So, it is an all or nothing thing in Cabinet. The Ministers don't necessarily even know what has not made it to the agenda from their colleagues because the screening is done by the bureaucracy, undoubtedly, most competently, but perhaps without the kind of political sensitivity that is required, particularly in a consensus government. That is the concern, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 203

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Madam Premier.

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Page 205

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

I want to restate once again, and I want to restate it very clearly, that nothing gets on the agenda unless a Minister has signed and brought forward an issue. The point of decision is myself. I have spent a little bit more time on it than previous Government Leaders probably because it was filtered out by smaller committees of Cabinet and went through a process. So, everything gets on the Cabinet agenda and the only organization we do through the bureaucracy is to make sure that, when there is an overlapping responsibility, everyone is involved and that if a paper came forward that is complementary to another initiative that a Minister goes through, those things get worked out by deputy ministers and people who are doing the background work. I don't think that a Cabinet Minister could possibly know exactly what everybody is doing every bit of the time in other departments. Here, everyone is involved. Everyone is given equal status in terms of determining the Cabinet agenda. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 205

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 205

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Chairman, I should certainly make way for other Members, but I would like to pick up on one comment the Premier made about the enlarged role of the Legislature and its considerable activity in dealing with issues. I would like to ask the Premier whether she feels that, given this high level of activity in the Legislature, the Legislature is now the primary policy-making, decision-making body, especially with regard to new initiatives, as opposed to the Cabinet. Traditionally, it has been the government that proposes initiatives and the legislature that disposes of them. I sense, from what she said, and from the form of consultation papers before this House, which are not strategies, as I see them, but rather towards strategies. They raise all the questions and all the issues very capably, but they don't necessarily suggest or lead the discussion toward an end. I am just looking at tabled documents before this House, Towards an NWT Mineral Strategy, Towards a Strategy to 2010, Building a Strategy for Dealing with Violence in the Northwest Territories. Is it the Premier's view that it is the full Legislature that has this primary responsibility now to determine direction on new initiatives, rather than the Cabinet perhaps screwing up its courage and suggesting a direction, laying out a direction? Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 205

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 205

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

I would like to have a clarification on some example of screwing up courage, please.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 205

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Mr. Patterson, would you please clarify.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 205

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Chairman, I have heard Cabinet Ministers say that there are 16 of them and 8 of us, so we are very cautious about presenting initiatives lest they be shot down in flames. That is what I am referring to. It does take some courage, perhaps, or some initiative to propose a solution. For example, to deficit reduction, we had this debate last fall where Members of our committee had hoped the government would, in presenting a discussion paper, with all of its resources and all its knowledge of government finances, come up with concrete proposals rather than say, here are the problems, here is the multitude of choices you could make. Now, what do you think? To me, leadership is forging a path, even though there are risks with doing so. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 205

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 205

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I think, in this Legislative Assembly, and with the job that the Executive Council has to do, I have always looked at it as a shared responsibility and a shared decision-making. It is not because you are a Cabinet Minister, that you have all the answers. It is not because I am the Government Leader, that I have all the answers. I do not believe I can be categorized as losing the will to do something. If it cannot be done in one way, it has to be done in another way. Certainly, as Executive Council Members, we realize that all 24 people in the Legislative Assembly have something to offer. I can't see anything wrong with that or saying that each one is responsible. If we prepare a budget and someone has an initiative and they want to do something entirely different and it is going to cost multi-million dollars, certainly we would like the suggestion of some of the Members, particularly the ones who are suggesting these new initiatives, on what things they are willing to go without. I don't think that is unfair to ask that because it is just giving the thought that, certainly, people who are going to bring forward these initiatives have some idea what it would replace or what we can do without to get these new initiatives going. That is just giving due respect.

I believe that, from time to time, there are going to be initiatives that will not be well received for many reasons. It could be lack of communication, not enough consultation, something that has absolutely nothing to do with it, or an interest of certain constituencies that they feel are going to be compromised. All those issues have to be weighed when initiatives are coming forward. I want to assure the Members that I have never worked with a Member of the Executive who wasn't sincerely trying to do the very best job they could, taking into consideration all people's point of view.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 205

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Ballantyne.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 205

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wasn't here, but I heard the Premier had some kind comments about Mr. Patterson and myself concerning the Beatty report. It is nice to hear that. It is the first time I heard my name mentioned with that report for the last two and a half years. It is good to know. I appreciate those comments.

I have a couple of overall observations to make about the Department of the Executive. The Premier should recognize that there are always different philosophies of how you run an administration. Members on the Standing Committee on Finance, many of them, have had some concerns about the communication that has happened between Ministers and Members. They have been concerned about the immense number of priorities and a feeling who about whether the government can handle all of these priorities. It is a very common sense reality that any government who tries to do too much, most of the time, doesn't do anything very well. When we look at the list of priorities and initiatives, some of them are immense. Some of them like reforming the welfare system, the education training strategy, some of them on their own could consume most of the energy of the government.

I think the simplest way to put the concern of the committee is that with 18 months left, the committee feels there should be a handful of major initiatives, five or six, and a commitment to complete those and to do them very well.

Over the past two and a half years there has been a lot of good work, and no one is trying to take away from the government the work that they've done. My concern, as an MLA, is that what I haven't seen and what I think is a very necessary focus. For the Premier to sit down with her Cabinet and say to each Minister you have ten of these initiatives but, realistically, there is one big one you can do and a couple little ones you can do so let's sit down and decide to take some of these initiatives off the table. That is hard, politically, because every one of them has a constituency and every one of them is done for a good reason. But the reality is that with the number of major initiatives that the government has going, I very much doubt you're going to successfully conclude very many of them.

That was, I think, some very constructive advice for the Premier and the Cabinet to consider. I hope it's taken that way. The Standing Committee on Finance has made a very concerted effort during this round to keep the issues away from constituency issues, to keep them away from personalities, and to deal with the major policy issues facing this government. With some of those policy issues there may be some disagreements, and on some of them the government may have very good reasons to come forward with them.

But I think that for many of these issues, both the ordinary Members and the Members of the Standing Committee on Finance and the public should hear the arguments. Some of the recommendations we made, perhaps the government has some very good ideas as to why they're doing what they are, and that's fair ball. I would hope that the government would view the recommendations of the standing committee the same way. I think there's some good ideas in there and I hope they will be considered in a positive sense. I don't think it hurts if there are disagreements. That is what this forum is all about. If the government feels strongly about their way of doing things, say so. Like most Members, I'm quite willing to be convinced. It's in everybody's interest that this government succeeds with these initiatives. So I look forward to this budget debate as just that. A debate, a discussion on policy. If there are differences of opinion, so be it. That's what politics is all about.

When we look at the Beatty report, just to put it into a little perspective. The government has done some good things. I am a strong supporter, as you know, of the Beatty report and very involved in it. Some things they've done and some things that they haven't done that the Beatty reported recommended. A lot of those decisions can become very subjective, that's true. A lot of the style of government is going to depend on what the Premier is comfortable with. So there are no absolute rights and wrongs in all these things. These are observations and, perhaps, there are some things that the government and the Cabinet may want to think about.

For an example, in my opinion anyhow and working with the Beatty group very closely, what there has to be in a government bureaucratic system are checks and balances and creative tension. You need creative tension between the line departments and the central agencies. What Beatty was talking about, and quite rightly, and I think the government was definitely on the right track, the problem with the last government -- which I readily acknowledge -- is that the central agency structure was fragmented. So there were political committees of the Cabinet, each one with a different bureaucratic group supporting them. And that caused problems. We definitely recognize that. The concept is to try to bring together some sort of a structure that will support the Cabinet, that will give some cohesiveness and coherence to government policy making. That's a laudable objective.

A couple of things that the government didn't do that the Beatty report suggested. We had a lot of discussions about the four-pillar approach. That it was very important within the central agencies that you do have these checks and balances and you have creative tension. The concept was that you would really have four equal bureaucratic components serving the government. You would have the office of the Premier, with the principle secretary, the office of the secretary to the Cabinet, the deputy minister of Finance and the Department of Finance, then you would have the secretary to the Financial Management Board. Each one with a different function, all of them working together, but with enough creative tension between those particular roles that everything and all policy making had a thorough analysis from different perspectives.

Also, the thought of the Beatty group was that though there would be a centralized support system for Cabinet, that there would be Cabinet committees. There is a problem with everything essentially going through Cabinet or finance through FMB, though it sounds on the surface that everything has a full vetting. The reality is because the time constraints of Cabinet Ministers, because of the number of things on the agenda, it's very difficult to look at them in a Cabinet meeting and look at the political ramifications, to look at the financial ramifications with FMB, to look at the specialized policy area fall-out from decision making. The reason that you would have, for instance, a political strategy committee -- still served by Mr. Alvarez's shop -- is that you would actually ensure that the political ramifications of policies would be looked at on their own.

So what has happened here, what I see as a good first step but it wasn't completed. Essentially, because the Department of Finance by bringing the Comptroller General, bringing in the accounting function into FMBS, is that the Department of Finance has essentially been stripped down. It's no longer one of the pillars. Because the principle secretary to the Premier who is also an exceedingly capable person, doesn't really have any formal responsibilities. Essentially, what he does now, temporarily as deputy minister of Justice, is an advisor. But without some kind of a structure around him, he doesn't really plug anywhere into the structure.

I think the people you have are all very capable, talented people. I've worked for years with Mr. Voytilla, Mr. Alvarez is a hard-working, very smart guy, and everybody is doing a good job. They are trying their best to do a good job. But I really think the structure now is unwieldy. It's over-centralized, it doesn't have all the checks and balances in it, and the feeling of committee Members is perhaps one of the reasons for some of the communication problems. The hope is that the Premier will have a look at it and read through what the report has to say, and perhaps glean some ways to approach it to make the system a little less rigid, a little more open to political debate among the Ministers, and a little bit more able to carry on that tension between line deputy ministers and central agencies. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 207

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 207

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, as usual, I'm certainly always open to good advice. But if you want to talk about creative tension there's plenty creative tension there, I can testify to that. Part of the reason is because of the financial difficulty we find ourselves in with the federal government and the drawback of funding for specific programs.

I guess one of the things that...Like you said, there are different styles. Different people like different styles. To me, the people who are in the central agency are the trench workers. There are enough politicians around to set political agendas. Sometimes there's just too many of them because there's too many political agendas. How do we, as an executive, deal with that? I can assure you that there's been a lot of so-called priorities put off the table with the consent of Ministers. They brought them forward, we've discussed them, but we can't do them. As many as you see on the table, that many have been taken off. It's a discomfort for some of the Ministers who have brought those initiatives forward.

Some of the criticism is in getting into the financial situation we are in, how do we effectively, as executive Members working together, get the best that we can out of the resources? As an example, we tried for many, many years to do something on income reform and social reform. It has not been without trying, of previous executive Members, but we couldn't break through those barriers in talking to the federal government because they wouldn't accept the fact that maybe we could have different guidelines and tie income reform more to productivity. We could never get that out of the previous government.

This government, and unfortunately may have been pushed into a situation, has decided that perhaps they should change the income reform around so it will be more adaptable, more tied to productivity.

We've had on the table, for many years, a harvester support program which was difficult to try to put together. We knew we wanted to do something about that. In the last eight years, there's been, to my recollection at least, 16 or 17 different proposals which kept getting sent back because, we don't know how to fund it. Education training has always been a number one priority in this government. I think now we have an excellent opportunity to pull together a lot of those fragmented -- not fragmented, but different -- ideas to deal with issues that have been long outstanding in the communities. I think we have that opportunity now because our funding partner, the federal government, appears to be more open about how we can move these funds around.

When we were discussing our priorities we have always looked to the social well-being of a community and how we put the resources and people to work? How do we educate people so that they can be construction workers, plumbers, et cetera.

Housing was an area that had the most immediate possibility to get people working because there was a wide variety of things that you could do and there was generally two, three, or four houses in each community. That goes into the education pot, the social well-being pot because people are being trained and people are receiving remuneration for their efforts and working in construction, or even people who are already trained.

To build on that and say how can we, rather than just talk about welfare, wildlife, and other specific areas, put them together so we can channel our best efforts to get people working in a more productive society, rather than having them walk into the welfare office and say there's no jobs, I have nothing to do. I think we have possibilities.

There have been many papers and issues that have been brought forward. How do we put that together for the healthy well-being of the people that we represent? I think we have the possibility of doing it. It won't be called housing or shouldn't be called wildlife resources. It should be something like healthy lifestyles. How do you get people going? How do we get people moving? I don't see why we can't stimulate people to feel that, even though they don't immediately see the possibilities of a job when they get their grade 12, to instill in them the value that it's important. If you can get there, there are other possibilities. It makes you more mobile. What's wrong with a person who has an engineering degree being a trapper? My father has an engineering background and he decided to be an explorer, a frontiersman and go trapping. He knew a lot of things, he learned how to trap, but he had other things to go with it. I think we have to get that positive attitude out to people. Get them involved.

All of these initiatives that are there should be channelled into the social healthy well-being of people. That comes under one category and how do we build everything we do to support that initiative, or that goal? I really believe that we've got the opportunity.

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment is seeing his portfolio expand to take in more of these initiatives to provide a base for people to get on their feet. I know that he's done excellent work and really strove to get ourselves involved with some of the programs that are available out there that will enhance, some of the programs that are already here in the Northwest Territories, but may not have the dollars that we want. If we can tap into those federal initiatives perhaps there's an opportunity to answer a lot of the questions that have come in different reports here and there and maybe we can accommodate them. I think we just have to look at healthy lifestyles, productivity in people and try to support that. I believe that people in the communities know that it's not healthy to sit at home watching TV and not be productive because it really hurts them in the end.

I would like to gear towards healthy lifestyles and that takes in all the different projects we might have and maximizing whatever we do.

I know that's a long dissertation, but I just want to say these things because I know that sometimes we get an affirmative action paper and it's seems that if we don't specifically answer to affirmative action papers, it seems we're doing nothing. I think if we can get opportunities to people so that they can become affirmative within themselves, then something has been done. If a social worker in the community is proactive and has the ability to move dollars around to focus people towards education, we'll accomplish that. I thinks that is but one path that all the different initiatives can take. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 208

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Premier. General comments. Mr. Ballantyne.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I thank the Premier for that. I'll ask a specific question which I think should be fairly easy for the Premier to answer. There are 18 months left and there's a whole list here of government initiatives. What five initiatives do you think are the most important to complete by the end of this term, from that list, so we have an idea of what the overall direction this government is going in.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 208

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

The direction thread through many of the concerns of the Members and the people who are not Members of the Legislative Assembly. We can put our priorities on education, income reform, the renewable resource development, as it relates, the mineral strategy, et cetera. Right now mining is very important mainly because of the jobs and economic aspects of it, and social development.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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The Chair Brian Lewis

General comments? Mr. Ballantyne.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

That is good. That is the sort of thing the Members want to hear and that there is a focus. The Standing Committee on Finance totally agrees with education as a major O and M priority, income reform is great and mining is great. Can you give me an idea of what aspect of social development you consider to be the most important?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 208

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

I think it goes without saying we have to address what is broadly known as "community well-being" and that includes things like family violence and people being housed, et cetera.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Ballantyne.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

That answer, right at this time, I find very informative and I thank the Premier for that response.

Commissioner's Office

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 208

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Does anyone else have general comments on Executive offices? Would you like to get into the book and examine the details of this department? We are on page 02-13, Commissioner's office, if Members agree. Do you agree we deal with this page? We are on Executive offices, Commissioner's office, total O and M, $230,000. Agreed?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 208

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Ministers' Offices

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

The Chair Brian Lewis

Okay. The next page, 02-14, Ministers' offices, $3.772 million. Agreed? Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

Fred Koe Inuvik

There are several activities under Ministers' offices. I see there is a category for Ministers' secretaries and executive assistants. Can someone advise me how many Ministers' secretaries and executive assistants there are? Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Each Minister has one executive assistant and one secretary.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

Fred Koe Inuvik

Is that eight each?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Each Minister has one executive assistant and each Minister has one executive secretary. That is 14 bodies. In my office, I have two secretaries, plus an executive assistant, plus a principle secretary, when his services aren't required elsewhere.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 208

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

Fred Koe Inuvik

In the women's advisory office, can the Premier advise us as to how many staff there are in that division?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 208

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, one.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 208

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 208

Fred Koe Inuvik

Has there been an evaluation as to the effectiveness of this office?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 208

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, which office?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Koe, will you repeat?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Fred Koe Inuvik

The women's advisory office.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Perhaps the Member can clarify just what he means by that question?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Koe, would you like to try again?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 208

Fred Koe Inuvik

Certainly. There is a women's advisory office and I have been advised that there is one person in it. This office has been ongoing for a while, I am not sure exactly how long. Has there been any study or evaluation as to the...Obviously, this person has some duties and is doing some work. So, all

I want to know is for the salary and O and M assigned to that staff, has there been an evaluation as to the effectiveness of the women's advisor position and the office she works under, I presume it is a she.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 209

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 209

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The office, itself, the duties and responsibilities, have been restructured in the last year and a half. There has been no formal evaluation, but I want to inform the Member that the person has been very, very busy. For a period of time, because of personal illness, we had to substitute someone in that office. There has not been very much slack time in that particular person year. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 209

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 209

Fred Koe Inuvik

One of the functions, somewhere in this organizational chart, in the new structure in the Executive, is for somebody to look at efficiency and effectiveness of our government programs and services. Part of that would be an evaluation component. Has that been set up and is it functional?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 209

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 209

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, on the audit evaluation, I believe that comes under Mr. Pollard's responsibility, and I would request the Member pose that question, for an update on the audit evaluation section, to Mr. Pollard. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 209

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 209

Fred Koe Inuvik

There is one other division within this Minister's office and it is a public affairs division. Can I ask how many staff are in this division?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 209

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 209

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, there are five PYs in that office of the public affairs division.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 209

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 209

Fred Koe Inuvik

Are they all located in headquarters?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 209

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 209

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, yes.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 209

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
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Page 209

Fred Koe Inuvik

Again, there are five people doing public affairs work. I am curious, similar to the women's advisory, as to the effectiveness of this division. There has to be some measure of output as to how effective it is. Has there been any evaluation done to measure output and effectiveness of the work of the public affairs officer?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 209

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 209

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, this is one area I can assure the Member that, as we stated to the Standing Committee on Finance, we are going to be reviewing this total function and how the operation is carried out. I don't know where it is on the order paper exactly, but it is very soon. I believe with the communication such as it is and the requirement for better communication, this is an area we might be able to do better work in. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 209

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Premier. Are you finished, Mr. Koe? Are we agreed on page 02-14, $3.722 million. Agreed?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 209

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Executive Council Secretariat

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 209

The Chair Brian Lewis

The next item is Executive Council Secretariat, $6.35 million. We are on page 02-15. Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 209

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to the executive regional operations and the roles of regional directors, I wonder what the status is of the review of their role and functions.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 209

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 209

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, it is my understanding that the regional directors are presently in the capital city of Yellowknife and are undergoing some assessments on the role they have today. In about two weeks, a paper will be ready for Cabinet and discussion on the role and review of the regional directors. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 209

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 209

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

What are the Premier's thoughts regarding the roles of the regional directors currently?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 209

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thoughts, okay. Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 209

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

I don't like to give personal thoughts on this because in different regions, regional directors function according to the dynamics of the different regions. I don't want to presume anything. At this point in time, those positions are very important in terms of facilitating and coordinating activities. That is more in terms of trying to tie things together, not only in headquarters, but in the regions, so we are not stepping over each other. In any area of government things just don't go on, someone must be there, et cetera. I think it is important to have someone there to coordinate and keep an eye on activities that are going on in their region and give some feedback. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 209

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Will the roles of the regional directors be standardized or is it going to be different for each region, depending on the dynamics of the region?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

The intention is to standardize the responsibility of regional directors. Earlier, I was asked a personal opinion, and my personal opinion is that in different regions, the level of importance or use of regional directors depends on the dynamics of that specific region. Although, this has nothing to do with the intent of standardizing the roles. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Premier. Are you happy, Mr. Ng? Okay. Page 02-14, Executive Council Secretariat, $6.35 million. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

Fred Koe Inuvik

In the budget speech, there was an announcement that salaries of deputy ministers are going to be restructured or reduced and increases to their salaries will be based on merit. But there is no mention of regional directors. There are senior managers in the field almost equivalent of deputy ministers. Are they going to fall under the same knife, scalpel, I mean?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, like it was stated before, we can only do so much at one time. I think there has been quite a lot of comment on accountability and responsibility of deputy ministers. So that was the first tier that was dealt with. At this point in time, we haven't determined what formula, whether it will be the same or different, on regional directors. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Koe, before I recognize you, I would like to recognize Chief Harry Deneron, from Fort Liard, who is in the gallery. I know we will be meeting with the Treaty 11 chiefs later on.

---Applause

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

Fred Koe Inuvik

In the regions, there has always been the concern of the accountability and responsibility and function of the regional directors. So I was glad my colleague, Mr. Ng, raised the question about the review of roles of the regional directors. I hope the study and evaluation of these functions will be done as soon as possible and made available to us. And if there are changes, that we have some input into it.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I certainly take that suggestion. I think as we go along, we will try to look at more pay for performance. I know we want to move very quickly on this issue. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

Fred Koe Inuvik

There is a section under the Executive Council Secretariat called the official languages unit. Can the Premier give me some details as to the size of this unit and its function?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, there are 1.6 PYs in the official languages unit in vote 1 and depending on the outcome of the Canada-Northwest cooperation agreement for French and aboriginal languages, that may grow. It depends on exactly what the final deal is with the federal government.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

Fred Koe Inuvik

There has also been some concern as to what the function and duties of this office are versus the function and duties of the office of the Languages Commissioner. In some people's minds there may be some overlap or some duplication of duties. Can you inform us as to whether or not the roles are clear as to the office of the Languages Commissioner versus the official languages unit?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I am aware that there seems to be some confusion. However, the role that we have for the official languages unit is to have staff to make sure the internal responsibilities or internal audit of what we are doing within various governments and how we are making those expenditures in the various departments are carried out. It is a hands-on role to make sure we don't run into situations where we suggest we are going to have certain expenditures and then we don't get around to running a program, as was designed at the beginning of the agreement. I know there has been some concern that about a year ago, we lapsed dollars. One of the major roles the languages unit carries out is to continually monitor that the internal language expenditures are taking place and in the right areas and making sure, on a quarterly basis, there is reporting to make sure that they're still on line. It's making sure that we do the job that we said we're going to do, internally. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thanks very much for that explanation. Mr. Koe, are you done? Mr. Whitford, I believe you're next.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to ask a question concerning the Executive Council Secretariat. In this area, I'm not sure where it falls, but I noticed that the protocol officer is no longer included anywhere in this budget. Is there a reason for that? That role, as I understood it from when I was with government, played an important part in our government's liaison with the provinces, with the federal government, with international delegations, the governor general's office, and a number of different areas. I felt it was an important role and I think many other people felt the same way. I wonder if there's a reason for its exclusion?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 210

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The position has been deleted. The various Ministers' offices will share the responsibility, depending on the activity that takes place, with the Commissioner and the Legislative Assembly. A

position by itself on a day-to-day basis couldn't be justified. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Whitford, are you done?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I suppose when you close out something that means that you don't need them any more, and that they did serve a purpose. As Madam Premier pointed out, it's going to be delegated now to the Legislative Assembly, to the departments and to the Commissioner's office. There are still certain rules that need to be followed, protocol rules that must be applied so that we don't offend any visiting dignitaries. In the closure of the office and the exclusion of that position, was there an outgoing review done? Was something prepared so the wisdom of the years that was gleaned by that office is passed on now to other offices that will be taking up this task, so that we don't create any international incidents and not be seen well in the light of other nations that do come to visit us? Do we have a standard directory or policy manual that will assist other departments to follow the protocol procedures that would be required?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, the particular position was previously discussed with the Legislative Assembly and the Legislative Assembly couldn't justify a full-time position in this regard as well. I believe there's a commitment between the Executive Council and the Legislative Assembly to work out protocol arrangements. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

The Chair Brian Lewis

I think the question was, does everybody know what they have to do now?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, even though there was a function of an individual position, the departments, depending on what the function or the activity was, were involved anyway. I believe that the Member might be a bit concerned about the upcoming Queen's visit. I think that there are some arrangements to be made, maybe on a contractual basis, to fulfil that one obligation. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Whitford, is that all? We're still on Executive Council Secretariat, $6.35 million. Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

A specific question, Mr. Chairman. Are we going to spend the Secretary of State aboriginal language funding this year?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

We have been, Mr. Chairman, monitoring very closely those departments who have outlined various expenditure areas carry out those responsibilities. These are done on a quarterly basis and so far, in the aboriginal languages section, we may be somewhat overspent. But on the French language section, we may not quite reach the objective of all the expenditures. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Ballantyne.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

This is for my own interest. Over the past number of years, we have been moving more towards a southern provincial style where the Premier's office has a more direct relationship with the deputy ministers. Nobody can argue with the new accountability concept of the deputy ministers and their bonus system. My question is, for my own interest, when deciding the performance evaluation, the size of the bonus, who has the final say in that evaluation, the Premier or the Minister?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, it would be the Minister and the Premier. The Premier, on all accounts, along with the Minister responsible for a particular department.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Ballantyne.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I understand there will be that consultation, but if there is a difference of opinion, who has the final authority to make the decision?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, so far I have no reason to believe that we couldn't work it out. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Ballantyne.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I'm quite satisfied that with the very reasonable Ministers that you have and yourself being so reasonable, you'd have no problem at all working it out. Just in case that one in a million chance happens, as has happened in other jurisdictions, my question is, who makes the final decision?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

The Chair Brian Lewis

I believe the Premier did answer that question. If she wants to try again, then go ahead.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Well, I answered the question and, by and large, I believe that in any situation, we would work it out. We could have some creative tension as you say, in the meantime, but in the end it's my decision finally. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Ballantyne, are you happy? Good. Are we finished this item, then? We have $6.350 million. Agreed?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

The Chair Brian Lewis

Next page then. We're on details of grants and contributions. Grants, $225,000. Agreed? Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

Fred Koe Inuvik

On women's initiatives, $225,000, which groups receive the funding?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 211

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier, do we have the detail of the groups that receive the funding?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Yes, we have. The Native Women's Association gets $175,000 a year as a core grant. The rest of the dollars are spent on various submissions that are received for various conferences, workshops, et cetera. So it is upon request to various groups. The Native Women's Association can also apply for extra assistance for something specific. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

The Chair Brian Lewis

Are you happy with that, Mr. Koe? Agreed?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

The Chair Brian Lewis

Next is contributions, $1.224 million.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

The Chair Brian Lewis

Okay. Total grants and contributions, $1.449 million. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

Fred Koe Inuvik

In the regional councils contributions, funding to assist regional boards. Can we have the details which regional councils get funding and how much?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I will give the allocation and explain, on two instances, what is happening. The total allocation of $921,000 is as follows: Rae-Edzo, Cli Cho, gets $105,000; the South Slave gets $82,000; Deh Cho gets $141,000; Shihta gets $112,000; Baffin gets $178,000; Keewatin gets $156,000 and Kitikmeot gets $147,000.

In the matter of Baffin, about $20,000, or a certain amount, is expended for one meeting a year and the rest, including this year, is going to pay back the overexpenditure and deficit they had. So they don't have an executive director or any working bodies. They are paying off all their debt. They will not be receiving full funding until such time as all their debt is paid off.

In the matter of the South Slave, the money is there. They may decide not to have a regional council, but have meetings once or twice a year with all the leadership. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

Fred Koe Inuvik

I know there is no regional council in the Inuvik/Delta area and I guess that is why there is no allocation to that area.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Premier.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

There is an allocation of $25,000 a year, which goes to a meeting of leadership in that region.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you very much. Anyone else? Grants and contributions, $1.449 million.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

The Chair Brian Lewis

Can we go back to page 02-12, program summary? Total O and M, $10.352 million. Agreed?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

The Chair Brian Lewis

Do you agree that we have concluded this item?

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

The Chair Brian Lewis

Okay. I would like to thank the Premier and her witnesses. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I move we report progress.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

The Chair Brian Lewis

The motion is not debatable. Those in favour of this motion? I am sorry, it has just been brought to my attention, having counted the...We now have a quorum. The motion is on the floor. All those in favour? All those against? There is one against, so it looks good.

---Carried

The motion is carried. I will rise and report progress.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 212

The Speaker

Item 20, report of committee of the whole.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 212

The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 1 and Committee Report 2-12(5) and would like to report progress with one motion being adopted and, Madam Speaker, I move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 212

The Speaker

Thank you. Is there a seconder for the motion? Seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent. Your motion is in order, Mr. Lewis, however, we don't have a quorum in the House. Can you ring the bells, Mr. Clerk? We have a motion on the floor. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 21, third reading of bills. Item 22, orders of the day. Mr. Clerk.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 212

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Madam Speaker, there will be a meeting of the Caucus with the Treaty 11 chiefs immediately after adjournment. Meetings tomorrow morning at 9:00 am of the Ordinary Members' Caucus. Orders of the day for Friday, February 18, 1994.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Oral Questions

6. Written Questions

7. Returns to Written Questions

8. Replies to Opening Address

9. Replies to Budget Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95

- Committee Report 2-12(5), Review of the 1994-95 Main Estimates

- Minister's Statement 5-12(5), Session Business

- Tabled Document 1-12(5), Towards an NWT Mineral Strategy

- Tabled Document 2-12(5), Building and Learning Strategy

- Tabled Document 3-1295), Towards a Strategy to 2010: A Discussion Paper

- Tabled Document 11-12(5), First Annual Report of the Languages Commissioner of the NWT for the Year 1992-93

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 213

The Speaker

Thank you. This House stands adjourned until Friday, February 18 at 10:00 am.

---ADJOURNMENT