This is page numbers 367 - 397 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was education.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Arvaluk, Mr. Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Hon. Jeannie Marie-Jewell, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Mr. Ng, Mr. Ningark, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Whitford

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 367

Madam Speaker

Good morning. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Kivallivik, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Minister's Statement 26-12(5): Arctic Winter Games 1994
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Madam Speaker, the 1994 Arctic Winter Games will be held March 6 to 12, 1994 in Slave Lake, Alberta. As Minister responsible for sport, I am pleased to provide Members of the Assembly with an update on the Northwest Territories' team to this circumpolar sport and cultural event.

Northwest Territories will send 354 athletes, coaches and mission staff, representing all regions. This year, 38 communities will have participants, up from 34 communities in 1992. I am pleased to note that community representation on our team has steadily increased from 1980 when only 20 communities were sending athletes to the games. This increase in numbers of athletes and coaches from small communities is due, in large part, Madam Speaker, to the cooperative efforts of the Government of the Northwest Territories and communities in providing sport and recreation facilities, coaching development and competitions to all athletes of the Northwest Territories.

Madam Speaker, the delegation will include 12 mission staff to assist and support the teams and a group of ten cultural performers from Norman Wells, Iqaluit and Rae-Edzo who will participate in the cultural program planned by the Slave Lake host society.

Madam Speaker, on March 1, I will provide Members with additional information on the games to be held in Slave Lake, along with a promotional package. At that time, we plan to unveil the new team clothing with a program of events in the great hall of the Legislative Assembly.

I would like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to our volunteer organizers, including the Sport North Federation for the months of hard work they have put in to ensure the success of the regional and territorial trials held to select our final team.

We do not judge the success of the Arctic Winter Games on the number or colour of ulus we may win. Madam Speaker, the Arctic Winter Games have earned the importance they hold throughout the north because of the wide participation of athletes in the games and in our regional and territorial trials. All these events provide opportunities for the athletes to compete to achieve their personal best.

The regional trials were held this past November and December, and the territorial trials on the January 20 to 22 weekend. The Arctic Winter Games territorial trials are the single largest sporting event in the Northwest Territories. They were held in 11 different communities and involved 1,300 participants. In total, the regional and territorial trials involved 2,700 athletes, coaches and officials from virtually every community in the Northwest Territories. To those who made this massive undertaking happen, should go the appreciation and continued support of this Legislative Assembly.

Madam Speaker, later today, I will provide the Members of this Assembly with a list of the Northwest Territories' team members and mission staff. I look forward to making a further statement on the Arctic Winter Games, but at this time I would ask all Members to join me in wishing all athletes the very best in their upcoming competitions. I am sure they will represent the Northwest Territories with pride. Thank you.

---Applause

Minister's Statement 26-12(5): Arctic Winter Games 1994
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 367

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Keewatin Central, Mr. Todd.

Minister's Statement 27-12(5): Negotiated Contracts
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 367

John Todd Keewatin Central

During the fall session of this Assembly, many questions were raised about this government's policy of entering into negotiated contracts with community organizations outside of the conventional public tendering process.

First of all, we must put the role of negotiated contracts in its proper perspective. On December 13, 1993, I tabled in this House a record of the contracts which the Department of Transportation had negotiated since April 1, 1992. Between the first of April 1992 and the end of November 1993, the department awarded 905 contracts with a combined value of $84 million. During that same time, the department entered into 21 negotiated contracts with a total value of $6.4 million. Negotiated contracts represent a little over two per cent of the number of contracts awarded and less than eight per cent of the department's contractual expenditures. By far, most of the Department of Transportation's business is conducted through the conventional public tendering process and negotiated contracts play only a small part .

I fully support the competitive tendering process as the most efficient means of awarding public contracts. As anyone who has ever made a bid on a public contract knows, bare-knuckle competition can be a pretty rough business. The pricing strategies that bidders employ are highly innovative and competitive. Exactly as it is intended to do, the tendering process selects the most experienced, aggressive and successful entrepreneurs to work on our public projects.

Even so, for many years, the Government of the Northwest Territories has applied a modified version of the public tendering process through its business incentive policy. The business incentive policy corrects for the economies of scale that larger firms in southern Canada enjoy. The policy also takes into account the higher costs of doing business in the north that northern entrepreneurs incur.

The preference that the business incentive policy gives to northern firms has been successful in helping to establish viable business sectors in the larger northern centres. Working from our success, we have revised the business incentive policy again to extend its reach even further to the businesses in the smaller communities.

However, for all the advantages of the tendering process, public government, especially in the NWT, has a broader responsibility to its people than to look always and solely at the lowest bid. Strict adherence to the public tendering process would not, in any acceptable length of time, bring about the socio-economic benefits of business management experience or the training and employment opportunities that our communities so desperately need.

In some cases, the department adopts a special approach to a contract award in which, along with the lowest bid, it evaluates the local training and employment opportunities the contractor can deliver through the project. In other cases, where a local contracting firm may not exist, the department might manage the project itself to make the most of an opportunity to employ local workers.

The negotiated contract is another tool that we use to bring business opportunities to the communities. Until smaller companies in the communities have had a chance to gain some management experience and entrepreneurial skills, they operate at a severe competitive disadvantage to our more established and proven businesses in the private sector.

The decision to enter into a negotiated contract is made by the Executive Council within an established policy framework which sets the criteria and objectives a given proposal must satisfy.

We might have cause for concern if too large a portion of governments' expenditures were made through negotiated contracts or if too many of them went sour. As it is, negotiated contracts are a small part, I repeat a small part, of our public expenditures and most of them succeed. Of the 21 negotiated in the past two fiscal years, only one has gone badly wrong and for that one I have accepted full responsibility.

---Applause

By the same token, I might add, the public tendering process does not always work as it should. Sometimes the lowest bid is shaved too fine, the contractor defaults and cannot finish the job or deliver the product. No method is perfect and we should not rely on any one method to meet all the objectives of this government.

I am proud of the department's record with negotiated contracts. The figures I tabled on December 13 show that the Department of Transportation's record with negotiated contracts is a good one and one which I, as the Minister responsible and with my colleagues on the Executive Council, fully endorse.

It is my responsibility as a Minister to choose the best tool for the job. For the purpose of stimulating community business development and offering local training and employment benefits, a negotiated contract is one of the tools we have. When I am satisfied that a negotiated contract can accomplish its purpose best, I intend to use it.

---Applause

Minister's Statement 27-12(5): Negotiated Contracts
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 368

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Using Discretion In Lotteries And Sweepstakes
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 368

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to share with you a little incident that occurred here a little while ago, and bring you up to date on a bit of good news.

The good news, of course, is I have an answering machine at home and recently it was recording a number of long distance incoming calls but because it was an answering machine, it would stop at that. One day I happened to be home and the phone rang. This very friendly female voice says, hi, Tony, it's really good to catch you. You seem to be a very hard person to get hold of. The weather up there is pretty cold, and all of that. I said, who is this and give me your name.

She said, I have some good news for you. I asked, what's the good news? She said, you and your wife have just won a Caribbean cruise. I thought, oh, boy. This time of the year it's 40 below here. And we got to chatting as if this person knew me. It came down to a point where this cruise was reserved in Florida for Mr. and Mrs. Whitford, and all we had to do was to send $40 there to retain this good standing because there were a lot of people in Yellowknife, by the way, who were on the list and I just happened to be at the top of the list. If I didn't take it, somebody else would get this fabulous prize. So they wanted my Visa number right away. I said, you send me the details in hard copy and I'll send you my cheque, but that didn't do. They wanted my Visa number which I wouldn't give and they got kind of mad and hung up.

Yesterday, more good news. I got a letter in the mail that says I am now in the finals for $10,000 and I have a special number, number 182. I was all excited and I read all this stuff. I was going to send it in until this morning, Sam tells me he got the same letter and it's the same number, 182.

---Laughter

So we both won $10,000 and, Madam Speaker, we were going to go. However, there was more good news in here. If I act quickly -- and there's a certificate of authenticity here -- I can get a diamond bracelet for my wife that is worth $3,400. But, the good news is, if I send it in right away, I can get it for $29.

---Laughter

Just the other day I got another one from Australia. They're coming in from all over the place. Can I just conclude, Madam Speaker, because I was going to get to a point here.

Using Discretion In Lotteries And Sweepstakes
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Madam Speaker

Mr. Whitford, I don't believe you asked for unanimous consent to continue telling us your interesting story.

Using Discretion In Lotteries And Sweepstakes
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue.

Using Discretion In Lotteries And Sweepstakes
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Whitford.

Using Discretion In Lotteries And Sweepstakes
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 369

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, colleagues. This is important to you as well. You may be getting these things and not spending any time to read them. How they get the names, I don't know, but I'm setting a little trap so I'll be able to check to see where they originate.

The point I'm trying to get to is -- although it does sound kind of humorous -- it is a very serious matter because you are getting your named picked by offshore people now. Like I said, I got one from Australia. It said all I had to do was to send in $4.50 and that's not very much. But when you read the fine print it tells you how many people are going to respond to this and how much they're going to make. They're going to make millions for giving away about $20,000, totally, in prizes.

The serious part of it, colleagues and Madam Speaker, is that Consumer Affairs has been issuing warnings to people. Never, never, never give your Visa number over the telephone to people that you don't know. It's being misused. The RCMP are onto a number of frauds that are being perpetrated by people using the telephones. The point is, they're getting very, very personal. They're calling you by your first name, they're giving you details that wouldn't otherwise be known. How did they know it was cold here in Yellowknife? They give you indications that your neighbours or your friends have submitted your name on your behalf.

I caution you, Members, just be a little cautious when you get these very personal calls that tell you you're going to get something for nothing. Because usually when the deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true. So with that, thank you.

---Applause

Using Discretion In Lotteries And Sweepstakes
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 369

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

---Laughter

Creation Of New Words
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 369

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The other day, the Member for Yellowknife Centre gave me an idea for the Friday lighter side of things when he suggested that we should create new words to confuse the federal bureaucracy. I started thinking about the words and definitions.

Madam Speaker, a word like "Pollardization," this is a nervous condition suffered by the Northwest Territories Finance Minister when dealing...

---Laughter

..with the federal officials over the perversity factor.

---Laughter

When someone makes a "Lewisian" statement they are rambling and finally reveal the point of the speech at the end of it.

Another word is "Titusaphobia," this is the inability to make proper travel plans.

---Laughter

The world's best babysitters compete every year for the "Hamiltion Award," named in honour of one of the finest babysitters in the world.

---Laughter

When someone is "Ballantynian"...

---Laughter

...in their approach to life, they say things like even though I smoke and extra taxes will affect me, I none the less support the position the government has taken in this matter. A very noble statement indeed, Madam Speaker. Although I do not see how this tax will affect him, having never seen him buy a pack of cigarettes.

---Laughter

---Applause

---Laughter

Madam Speaker, I was thinking of a word for the Speaker and I thought of some but I was kind of chicken. Thank you.

---Laughter

---Applause

Creation Of New Words
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 369

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Recognition Of Pages From Dettah
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you. I'm speechless after my colleague, but I won't give a "Ballantynian" speech today.

---Laughter

We have, serving the House the last week, a number of pages from Dettah who I would like to recognize today. I hope they will all come out.

---Applause

Patricia Crookedhand, Noo-nee Charlo, Derrick Sangris, Jesse Beaulieu, Charlene Drygeese, Matilda Charlo, Vanessa Sangris and Gary Lacorne. I think that's everybody. Are they all here?

On behalf of the Assembly, I want to thank you all. You did a great job this week, and we hope to see you all back. The kids told me that rather than wait for 15 years to take over the Assembly, from what they see, they think they're ready today to take it over. Thanks very much.

---Laughter

---Applause

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Recognition Of Pages From Dettah
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 370

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Question 204-12(5): Evaluation Of Grade Extension Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The question is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment regarding grade extensions in the communities and the concept of community schooling. Since the department implemented that program a few years ago, has his department had the opportunity to evaluate the success of the program? Thank you.

Question 204-12(5): Evaluation Of Grade Extension Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 204-12(5): Evaluation Of Grade Extension Program
Question 204-12(5): Evaluation Of Grade Extension Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The process is ongoing in terms of the evaluation. We look at the success of the programs offered and the success of the graduates of those programs. We also look at the success of the students who come from those programs and are successful in the application to post-secondary institutions.

Return To Question 204-12(5): Evaluation Of Grade Extension Program
Question 204-12(5): Evaluation Of Grade Extension Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 204-12(5): Evaluation Of Grade Extension Program
Question 204-12(5): Evaluation Of Grade Extension Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister if he feels that the program currently is successful then. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 204-12(5): Evaluation Of Grade Extension Program
Question 204-12(5): Evaluation Of Grade Extension Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 204-12(5): Evaluation Of Grade Extension Program
Question 204-12(5): Evaluation Of Grade Extension Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. In comparison to what we have historically seen in terms of graduates and participation in post-secondary institutions, yes. In terms of whether we have been totally successful in returning students back to the high school programs, yes. In terms of whether we are getting total results from the community educational programming and the variety of subjects, yes. But we are still in a situation where, as a department, we are not totally happy and satisfied with some of the programs. I think that the math exam from last year is an indication that there are some deficiencies regarding our students, particularly in the whole matter of literacy and our ability to consider the matter of problem-solving generally. That is our biggest concern at the moment.

Further Return To Question 204-12(5): Evaluation Of Grade Extension Program
Question 204-12(5): Evaluation Of Grade Extension Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for High Arctic, Mr. Pudluk.

Question 205-12(5): Wastage Of Dpw Funds On Community Projects
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of DPW. Yesterday, I made a Member's statement with regard to DPW and hamlet offices and their working relationships. Departments seem to be wasting public money when they are doing their work on behalf of hamlets and other agencies. Would the Minister of DPW remind his department to keep in mind the reality of today's government and municipal fiscal situation and be more conservative and not so liberal? Thank you.

Question 205-12(5): Wastage Of Dpw Funds On Community Projects
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 205-12(5): Wastage Of Dpw Funds On Community Projects
Question 205-12(5): Wastage Of Dpw Funds On Community Projects
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I don't know if there is much difference between Conservatives and Liberals. They both seem to treat us the same from Ottawa. But seriously, I would like to thank the Member for bringing that issue to my attention. I have talked to the department already and raised your community concern to the department. Fixing the pipeline in Resolute Bay was supposed to have been taken care of from extraordinary costs that MACA and DPW would have to work out with the community. So it doesn't come through their regular O and M budget. My understanding is when a water line freezes, if you don't fix it immediately, it continues to freeze and will end up costing you more money. I will work with my department to make sure that they use the best method of transportation of materials as well as people

into the communities and that no unnecessary charters will take place. I will get back to the Member on that issue.

Return To Question 205-12(5): Wastage Of Dpw Funds On Community Projects
Question 205-12(5): Wastage Of Dpw Funds On Community Projects
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Aivilik, Mr. Arvaluk.

Question 206-12(5): Program Options In Community High Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 371

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Since the department began to move towards community schooling, there have been concerns from parents and students about the impact this would have on the choices available for students. There was a concern that the students would not have access to a range of courses available. At the larger regional centres, for example, Yellowknife, students can choose between different levels of the same subject such as English 10 or English 13. Can the Minister explain how schools, particularly in small communities, decide which courses will be available to their high school students? Thank you.

Question 206-12(5): Program Options In Community High Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 206-12(5): Program Options In Community High Schools
Question 206-12(5): Program Options In Community High Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The decision to extend grades is a matter that is determined by the community through the community education council and with discussions with divisional boards. The programming is determined by the communities with the divisional boards. That is the basis of those decisions. Generally speaking, most of the programs that have been offered in our high schools, including matriculation programs, have all been offered in our community programs if those subjects have been requested. An example would be Pond Inlet which presently offers 21 different subjects in their high school programming. That is the basis on which you can make the assessment. It is a matter of the community making that decision.

Return To Question 206-12(5): Program Options In Community High Schools
Question 206-12(5): Program Options In Community High Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Question 207-12(4): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question will be directed to the Minister of Education and it is regarding the concerns with the community schooling concept and the quality of education. Parents and students want reassurance that the education received in grade 12 in Fort Simpson is equivalent to the education you can get in grade 12 in Yellowknife or Fort Smith. Are the educational levels consistent across the Northwest Territories?

Question 207-12(4): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 207-12(5): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Question 207-12(4): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes. If it is a high school program, it is based on the Alberta curriculum and there is a core program that is offered. It is a matter of the choice of the students if they follow within that program. That is what we offer at the moment. We don't deviate from that curriculum and it is a matter of choice of the subjects taken that is made by the student.

Return To Question 207-12(5): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Question 207-12(4): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question 207-12(5): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Question 207-12(4): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

So the Minister is suggesting that the Alberta departmental grades of students in grade 12 courses are the same in the smaller communities. Am I correct?

Supplementary To Question 207-12(5): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Question 207-12(4): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 207-12(5): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Question 207-12(4): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Whenever students finish matriculation programs or subjects for which they have to write departmental exams, all of the students have to write those same exams. So their assessments are based on the same assessments that Alberta students are considered under.

Further Return To Question 207-12(5): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Question 207-12(4): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question 207-12(5): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Question 207-12(4): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister for that. Besides the assessments, do we take the same kinds of tests that the Alberta students take?

Supplementary To Question 207-12(5): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Question 207-12(4): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 207-12(5): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Question 207-12(4): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes. It is the same departmental exam that is offered in Alberta that is offered here in the Northwest Territories.

Further Return To Question 207-12(5): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Question 207-12(4): Quality Of Education In Community Schools
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Question 208-12(5): Restrictions On Students From Communities Attending School In Yellowknife
Item 5: Oral Questions

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, my question is directed to the honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Madam Speaker, the quality of education is very important in my community and in the region as well. Also, the choice of education for students is another important factor, not only for the student but also for

the parents. I'm in a position to go against a decision of the divisional board in my region. The honourable Minister of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment said a student can apply to come to Yellowknife but only if the course he wants to take is not available in local or regional schools. Why is there a restriction in place? Thank you.

Question 208-12(5): Restrictions On Students From Communities Attending School In Yellowknife
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 208-12(5): Restrictions On Students From Communities Attending School In Yellowknife
Question 208-12(5): Restrictions On Students From Communities Attending School In Yellowknife
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The basis on which the restriction is made is to support the development of our community education system. It is our attempt, Madam Speaker, to ensure that the same quality of programs is offered in our communities. We want to ensure we're responsive to the needs of the region, the community and we implement the directions we receive from the divisional boards on this particular matter.

Return To Question 208-12(5): Restrictions On Students From Communities Attending School In Yellowknife
Question 208-12(5): Restrictions On Students From Communities Attending School In Yellowknife
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Education. Many young people and their families want children educated close to home. However, there are a significant number of parents and students who want the opportunity to attend high school in larger centres where the course choice is greater. The government is not allowing that choice. Instead, it requires students to attend school in the home communities if the grade is there. Is the department prepared to allow students and their parents to decide where they would like to obtain their high school education?

Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Under the present policy, no, that choice is not there. The policy has been approved, not only by Cabinet but by this Assembly, with the way we've voted the resources in our budgets. I would be careful about how I answer the question because I'm not going to suggest to the honourable Members here that that matter not be considered. However, I do say to the honourable Members that probably the best solution would be for us to ensure that we deliver quality programming in our communities and use all the vehicles to ensure that delivery. Whether we use television and technology to deliver those programs, I think it's in our best interest to respond to the needs of the student through whatever vehicle.

I think the honourable Member, in his own statements, has made reference to the matter of quality. That is our goal and that is hopefully what we can achieve with the support of my colleagues in this House.

Return To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you. I appreciate that response. In this case, then, the government's first priority is to respond to the local educational authorities and the divisional boards as opposed to responding to the parents and the students?

Supplementary To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Well, Madam Speaker, I'm hoping that the local representatives, the community educational representatives, are responding to the needs of the children. That would be my presumption. I agree with the honourable Member that if that is not the case, then we have to review the matter. But, I really do believe that the CECs do take to heart the concerns of the children. I think if there are problems in that area, and, as Members of the Assembly, we'll have to address that and, as Minister, I'll have to take the advice of Members of this Assembly.

But, I do believe that our best method of dealing with this issue is to ensure that the elected representatives in the communities are responding to their needs. That is my first priority, to respond to the needs of our children. That is the responsibility of those who are given the administrative management responsibility, like our divisional boards. They have to deal with that issue. I agree with that particular matter.

Further Return To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you. CECs operate in the communities. Do they operate independently or are they operating on the basis of the Education Act and the policies this government has to carry out education in the communities?

Supplementary To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The responsibility of CECs and divisional boards is to carry out the legislation, as the honourable Member has pointed out, including the Education Act. But, also they are to carry out the directives that this department issues to those agencies. If they're not doing that, I think that we have an opportunity, through our strategy and amendments to the Education Act to ensure that they in future have the legislative direction to ensure we meet the needs of our students.

Further Return To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

My final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Is the direction the department is taking with regard to the year 2010 the direction we are going, regardless of whether the community, the parents and children wish those changes be made?

Supplementary To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Madam Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. May I remind you that I'm not Mr. Speaker?

Supplementary To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Sorry.

Supplementary To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Madam Speaker

Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to advise the honourable Member that one of the reasons we have not come forward with a detailed strategy at this particular time and have rather come forward with a discussion paper, is to get the views of honourable Members on the concerns they have. We will have an opportunity to influence the direction of education generally across the north with the amendments to the Education Act, and my honourable colleague is the chairperson of the Standing Committee on Legislation.

That legislation will be coming forward for review and the honourable Member, the committee, along with other Members, can have influence in this matter. We are consulting with communities on the development of this strategy and have received as many as 50 submissions on the strategy. It is our view that we should go back to the communities before we come forward with a final document.

Further Return To Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Question 209-12(5): Options For Parents And Students For Location Of Schooling
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Question 210-12(5): Success Rate Of Akaitcho Vs Home
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Madam Speaker

Boarding Students

Question 210-12(5): Success Rate Of Akaitcho Vs Home
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. The department has talked about expanding the home boarding program to handle students who come to Yellowknife after the closure of Akaitcho Hall. Home boarding does not have something that Akaitcho Hall does have, I guess, in that Akaitcho Hall provides a peer support structure where students can share their experiences and support each other. This should theoretically mean that students have a more likely chance to success and complete their studies. I would like to ask the Minister, at this time, if there is any difference in the success rate, currently between those students who are home boarded versus those students who are in Akaitcho Hall. Thank you.

Question 210-12(5): Success Rate Of Akaitcho Vs Home
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 210-12(5): Success Rate Of Akaitcho Vs Home Boarding Students
Question 210-12(5): Success Rate Of Akaitcho Vs Home
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I don't have those specific statistics, Madam Speaker. Except I know this, that this success rate so far at Akaitcho Hall has been five per cent. There have now been increases in the whole matter of home boarding students in terms of success rates. But the total amount has been five per cent at Akaitcho Hall.

Return To Question 210-12(5): Success Rate Of Akaitcho Vs Home Boarding Students
Question 210-12(5): Success Rate Of Akaitcho Vs Home
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Madam Speaker

Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 210-12(5): Success Rate Of Akaitcho Vs Home Boarding Students
Question 210-12(5): Success Rate Of Akaitcho Vs Home
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you. I would like to ask the Minister if he would be able to provide those statistics comparing the success of the home boarding students versus the success of the Akaitcho Hall students. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 210-12(5): Success Rate Of Akaitcho Vs Home Boarding Students
Question 210-12(5): Success Rate Of Akaitcho Vs Home
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 210-12(5): Success Rate Of Akaitcho Vs Home Boarding Students
Question 210-12(5): Success Rate Of Akaitcho Vs Home
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. Yes, Madam Speaker, I would be prepared to provide them.

Further Return To Question 210-12(5): Success Rate Of Akaitcho Vs Home Boarding Students
Question 210-12(5): Success Rate Of Akaitcho Vs Home
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the honourable Minister for Education, Culture and Employment. First of all, I would like to commend the government for a job well done by having students outside of Yellowknife coming to Yellowknife by way of a program by this government.

Secondly, I would like to thank the staff at Akaitcho Hall for looking after students from my area.

Thirdly, I would like to thank the people from Yellowknife for allowing the students from outside of Yellowknife to come to Yellowknife.

Madam Speaker, my kids had the opportunity to attend school in Yellowknife. Their second home has been, for the past few years, Akaitcho Hall, which is very important. My question to the Minister is, has the Cabinet given approval in principle to the closure of Akaitcho Hall? The closure is due by June 30, 1994. Has the final decision been made on the closure of Akaitcho Hall? Thank you.

Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes, the final decision has been made that we will be closing

Akaitcho Hall and will be moving more into home boarding in this community.

Return To Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Supplementary to the same Minister, through you. A few years ago when Mr. Kakfwi was the Minister of Education, I asked the same question about the possibility of the closure of Akaitcho Hall. At that time, the honourable Minister indicated to me, to the House, that the closure was not in the plan of the government unless we have high schools in all the communities. This is not the case. Why was the decision made even though there is no high school in my community? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I can't answer for Mr. Kakfwi. The fact is that I've inherited an initiative that he started, and that was the regional high school program area, in fact, the initiative of moving toward community high school programs.

What we have to understand is, as a government, we also have to consider the matter of costs to run particular programs. The other element that is important for us to consider is that there are now, in Yellowknife for instance, over 100 additional home boarding opportunities for our children. There is a reduction in the total students who are going to be attending high school in Yellowknife because of our regional high school programming that is being offered, and the possibility of extending those particular high school grades in our communities.

In that sense, I think we're doing a better job and I think we'll be more successful in retaining or keeping our high school students in high school. Many of them drop out because they are concerned about their homes and their families at the community level.

I guess I speak as a former student who spent 13 years...I don't know how many of you here spent 13 years in the student residence, but I spent 13 years away from my family. I will tell you that I would rather have these young students staying home with their family, rather than spending as much time away from their home as I did.

Further Return To Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Madam Speaker

Thank you. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark. Supplementary.

Supplementary To Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Now that we have established that the closure of Akaitcho Hall is imminent, we know it's going to be closed, there is speculation in the air that perhaps Arctic College may take over the facility, or the private sector. What is the fate of Akaitcho Hall? Is anyone taking over the facility to perhaps take in students from outside of this community? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We have not, at this time, made any decisions about the future use of Akaitcho Hall. What we have done is established a group in the government to review proposals. A number of agencies have indicated the possible utilization of Akaitcho Hall. One is Yellowknife Education District No. 1 in terms of our discussions with transfer of Sir John to their authority. Secondly, Arctic College is another agency that has expressed an interest in the possible utilization of college programming at Akaitcho. So, in that sense, we have not made any determination at this particular juncture.

Further Return To Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Question 211-12(5): Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Question 212-12(5): Reason For Decline In Students At Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. On the subject of Akaitcho Hall, I was one of the first students in that residence back in 1958. I spent considerable time in residential school, myself. So did my brothers. I had two brothers attend Akaitcho. So the Minister doesn't have a monopoly on being in residential schools, if that's governing the decisions being made about residential schools.

I want to ask a question about the purpose for closing Akaitcho Hall. I guess it's been cited that there's a decline in the number of students. The place can't operate unless it's full, or a majority full. I would like to know whether the decline in the number of students in Akaitcho Hall is because the students didn't want to come to Akaitcho Hall, or because their parents didn't want them to come to Akaitcho Hall, or because the department didn't want them to come to Akaitcho Hall for education. What would be the factors?

Question 212-12(5): Reason For Decline In Students At Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 212-12(5): Reason For Decline In Students At Akaitcho Hall
Question 212-12(5): Reason For Decline In Students At Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I didn't say I had a monopoly, I had suggested I wouldn't want other students to stay away from home as long as I did, and I think there are others who did.

Madam Speaker, there are a number of factors that are important when you review the whole matter of the closure of Akaitcho Hall, and the whole matter of the transfer of Sir John. The increasing number of community secondary schools has meant that the number of students coming to Yellowknife for their high school education is decreasing each year. In our anticipation, for instance, for September of 1994, it's expected to be about 50 students who will be continuing their high school education in Yellowknife. In other words, we are not asking those students who already began their high school program here to move out of Yellowknife. These students presently can be accommodated more effectively and at less cost through home boarding. The Executive Council has given approval for closure effective June 30. We are treating our staff, under the workforce adjustment program, as fairly as we can. Those, in my view, are some of the factors.

The other issue is there is a cost factor if you review it. The resulting savings are 26 PYs at a cost of $2.7 million in salaries and O and M costs. There are other potential savings and utility costs, but I am not sure about those. Generally speaking, those are the factors we had to consider. There will be an ongoing decline in the total number of students as these students graduate and as we improve community secondary programs.

Return To Question 212-12(5): Reason For Decline In Students At Akaitcho Hall
Question 212-12(5): Reason For Decline In Students At Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary To Question 212-12(5): Reason For Decline In Students At Akaitcho Hall
Question 212-12(5): Reason For Decline In Students At Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, it is hard to argue against the value of education in your own community. It is also difficult to argue against the value of education away from home. It is a well-known fact that when you travel, you gain additional knowledge. Akaitcho Hall, in conjunction with Sir John Franklin, offered many people in communities opportunities they wouldn't otherwise have. Many of the Members have expressed that here and I will also express that. If a student decides they want to get an education away from their home community, for a variety of reasons that are very well-known to Members of this House, will this opportunity still be available to them to get education in Yellowknife or Fort Smith, et cetera?

Supplementary To Question 212-12(5): Reason For Decline In Students At Akaitcho Hall
Question 212-12(5): Reason For Decline In Students At Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 212-12(5): Reason For Decline In Students At Akaitcho Hall
Question 212-12(5): Reason For Decline In Students At Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Under the policies that have been approved by this Assembly, the ability for students to move from region to region will be much more restricted. In fact, in some cases, the opportunity will not be available to them. However, most of the resources we have for secondary schooling are now being transferred to the divisional boards. They can make a decision, if they so choose, to provide the assistance and resources to students who wish to attend school outside their particular area. As such, we have made a choice of removing ourselves from the daily operational decisions that we were formerly involved in because we have given authority to the divisional and regional boards.

Further Return To Question 212-12(5): Reason For Decline In Students At Akaitcho Hall
Question 212-12(5): Reason For Decline In Students At Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Question 213-12(5): Factors In Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to follow up on Mr. Whitford's question with regard to the decline of students going to Akaitcho Hall. I didn't hear the Minister say whether it was because students were not allowed to come to Akaitcho Hall that the decline has been created. I would like to ask the Minister if one of the factors -- the decline in Akaitcho Hall numbers -- is as a result of students not being allowed to come to Yellowknife.

Question 213-12(5): Factors In Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 213-12(5): Factors In Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Question 213-12(5): Factors In Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. With the increasing number of community programs, in other words high school programs and high schools that are being established, we are seeing a reduced number of those students who used to come to Yellowknife for high school. For instance, in Kitikmeot, you have many students now deciding to stay in the Kitikmeot, both in Cambridge Bay and Coppermine, along with some of the students who are attending other high school programs in their communities. Those students in Rankin Inlet, Arviat, Baker Lake and now Coral Harbour used to attend this high school. Many of those students do not come back now to this high school because of those programs. That is generally the biggest reason as to why students are not returning to Yellowknife.

Return To Question 213-12(5): Factors In Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Question 213-12(5): Factors In Closure Of Akaitcho Hall
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Question 214-12(5): Minister's Commitment To Provide Excellence In Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education. The Standing Committee on Finance has made excellence in education a primary focus. It will take vision and political courage to move towards that goal. Is the Minister prepared to meet with communities, school boards, administrators and teachers to provide that courage and vision and challenge the system to provide nothing less than the best education system in the country here in the Northwest Territories?

Question 214-12(5): Minister's Commitment To Provide Excellence In Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 214-12(5): Minister's Commitment To Provide Excellence In Education
Question 214-12(5): Minister's Commitment To Provide Excellence In Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes. I think the honourable Member pointed out yesterday, from the statement that I made regarding the matter of student achievement, that we do take the matter of excellence of educational programming seriously. We also take seriously the advice that has been given by the standing committee. From the most recent meeting with the Nunavut divisional board chairs, they see the whole matter of education as being primary and important. All of the programming we offer needs to be, not necessarily of quantity, but rather quality, quality, quality.

Return To Question 214-12(5): Minister's Commitment To Provide Excellence In Education
Question 214-12(5): Minister's Commitment To Provide Excellence In Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary To Question 214-12(5): Minister's Commitment To Provide Excellence In Education
Question 214-12(5): Minister's Commitment To Provide Excellence In Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I thank the Minister for that response. The Minister will recognize there is a lot of frustration now in communities about the standard of education. There will be a tendency for people to blame the department, teachers or principals. The standing committee's observation is that approach is counterproductive. We have to all pull together, recognize that we have a problem and move towards a solution. Does the Minister agree that that type of proactive approach, without looking for scapegoats, is the most productive way to achieve these goals?

Supplementary To Question 214-12(5): Minister's Commitment To Provide Excellence In Education
Question 214-12(5): Minister's Commitment To Provide Excellence In Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 214-12(5): Minister's Commitment To Provide Excellence In Education
Question 214-12(5): Minister's Commitment To Provide Excellence In Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes, I believe that is the only approach that can allow for us to be successful. The point that the honourable Member makes of pointing no fingers, but rather to be proactive, rather than reactive, and to plan and provide for the leadership that is necessary for the changes to occur, I agree and concur with.

Further Return To Question 214-12(5): Minister's Commitment To Provide Excellence In Education
Question 214-12(5): Minister's Commitment To Provide Excellence In Education
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Again, to the Minister of Education. Three years ago, when the government started talking about what to do with Akaitcho Hall, there was a suggestion that the facility be privatized. This would seem to be a good opportunity. There might be aboriginal organizations or other northern companies that would be interested in taking over Akaitcho Hall to give the parents and students the opportunity to have their children go to school in Yellowknife. Did the Cabinet consider this option when it gave its approval in principle to close Akaitcho Hall?

Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. That matter was not a factor in our decision to close. That is not to suggest that in our discussions and proposals that may come in...I had discussions with some of the women who have been involved in the possible setting up of boarding homes. That, in my view, is a part of the discussions that need to go on now. In other words, they have to come forward with their ideas. However, I do say to the honourable Members that the cost savings we have made with the closing of Akaitcho Hall can be utilized in educational programming, direct to students and directly improving program delivery of our system.

Return To Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

So, even though the government is promoting private sector development, is the Minister saying he has rejected this option?

Supplementary To Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We haven't rejected any option. What we have said is that under the present system, we can not operate Akaitcho Hall at the costs we are now incurring, particularly in light of the reduction of the total number of students who will be attending high school programming in Yellowknife from our communities. That is the basis of the decision.

Further Return To Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Since the government did reject it, would the Minister be prepared to consider, if an organization was able to operate it, Akaitcho Hall for a student residence?

Supplementary To Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Madam Speaker, if they were able to run the building on the basis of the annual rates we pay for home boarding, I don't think anybody would reject it. But, I think that would be very, very difficult. None of the options have been rejected at this particular junction. Proposals have not come in. Discussions have happened but we have not had specific and detailed proposals that any of our departments or that our review committee has been able to consider.

Further Return To Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Since the direction with Akaitcho Hall is not really clear, is the government moving in the direction of creating regional community residences?

Supplementary To Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. In those communities where we can justify the need for regional residences, yes we will consider it. But, it's all part of the

capital planning process and we will address the needs based on the requests and the priority given by the community.

Further Return To Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Question 215-12(5): Privatization Considered For Akaitcho Hall Rather Than Closure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Question 216-12(5): Consideration For Operation Of Akaitcho Hall By Divisional Boards
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, education is a priority of this government, as I see it. I know the closure of Akaitcho Hall which will take place on June 30, 1994 is very painful, especially for people like myself whose kids have gone through that education system. They have taken their training at Sir John and at St. Patrick's. I think cost is of little significance, given the fact that quality education has been attained through Yellowknife. The Minister is a fine example of someone who has gone through the system here.

My question to the Minister follows the same line as Mr. Gargan, the Member for Deh Cho. I'm wondering if any effort has been made to approach divisional boards. Perhaps there could be a joint operation between the system and the divisional boards within this jurisdiction. I think every region has the opportunity to have their kids going to school here in Yellowknife. I mentioned earlier that education at Sir John and at St. Patrick's is one of the finest in the system. I'm wondering if the Minister has considered approaching divisional boards for joint operation. Thank you.

Question 216-12(5): Consideration For Operation Of Akaitcho Hall By Divisional Boards
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 216-12(5): Consideration For Operation Of Akaitcho Hall By Divisional Boards
Question 216-12(5): Consideration For Operation Of Akaitcho Hall By Divisional Boards
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Actually, the requests that have been made by most divisional boards have been to develop the high school programming in the communities within their regions. It is a bit of a deviation from the initiatives that have been undertaken by the divisional boards. The suggestion could be considered and I could convey it to the divisional boards to see what the response is. But, so far, the position has been to develop high school programming in our communities. That has been the direction they've undertaken.

Return To Question 216-12(5): Consideration For Operation Of Akaitcho Hall By Divisional Boards
Question 216-12(5): Consideration For Operation Of Akaitcho Hall By Divisional Boards
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 216-12(5): Consideration For Operation Of Akaitcho Hall By Divisional Boards
Question 216-12(5): Consideration For Operation Of Akaitcho Hall By Divisional Boards
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I mentioned earlier that I'm not one to argue with divisional boards. In some cases, given the number of students who are ready to attend high school in some regions, the high school system in the region is not able to take that number of students ready to go through the system. I'm wondering, in the event that we're not able to accommodate the number of students in the region, perhaps the Minister should seriously consider usage of Akaitcho Hall for accommodation for the overflow of students who should be coming to Yellowknife. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 216-12(5): Consideration For Operation Of Akaitcho Hall By Divisional Boards
Question 216-12(5): Consideration For Operation Of Akaitcho Hall By Divisional Boards
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 216-12(5): Consideration For Operation Of Akaitcho Hall By Divisional Boards
Question 216-12(5): Consideration For Operation Of Akaitcho Hall By Divisional Boards
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Earlier, I indicated to the honourable Members that there are still a great number of potential home boarding opportunities here in the community. We have not utilized the home boarding situation here. I think it can accommodate our students. There are some advantages to that situation where there are families taking direct care of children and becoming responsible for them.

There are also disadvantages. I agree with my honourable colleague, Mr. Gargan, who has raised the point a number of times of whether there are enough aboriginal families in the community that can take care of aboriginal students from smaller communities. I think that's something that has to be considered. In our discussion and our decision, we are also going to establish two counsellors to take care of our students so that we have someone taking a personal interest so if students have problems and concerns about where they're located, we can address that immediately.

At the same time, I'm not opposed to the idea that the honourable Member has raised and that is to address the potential overflow concerns regions might have. But my view is, as long as we can develop the regional high school programs and offer the services necessary, I think we will be in a better position in the future with our children. I accept the comments that have been made by the honourable Member.

Further Return To Question 216-12(5): Consideration For Operation Of Akaitcho Hall By Divisional Boards
Question 216-12(5): Consideration For Operation Of Akaitcho Hall By Divisional Boards
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Question 217-12(5): Impact Of Alberta Budget On Nwt
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister of Finance. Madam Speaker, yesterday, not too far on the heels of the federal government's budget being tabled, the Alberta government -- our sister province to the south -- handed down its budget. It appears, at least at first glance, that there are going to be substantial cuts to education and health, among other things. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance if his department has had an opportunity to review this budget, and to determine if there will be any positive or negative effects on the Northwest Territories, given the fact that we're so closely related to them.

Question 217-12(5): Impact Of Alberta Budget On Nwt
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 217-12(5): Impact Of Alberta Budget On Nwt
Question 217-12(5): Impact Of Alberta Budget On Nwt
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I didn't keep the staff up all night last night looking at the Alberta budget, but we will have some numbers next week to see if it does impact us. Our main area of concern was health because we were making a new arrangement with Alberta. Alberta was kind enough to tell us what they were going to do in advance

of their budget in the Department of Health and in the area of health. The arrangements that we're making health-wise haven't affected us. But we will look at the issues in their budget to see if there's something that's going to impact some of the services that they do provide to us, and report back to the House. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 217-12(5): Impact Of Alberta Budget On Nwt
Question 217-12(5): Impact Of Alberta Budget On Nwt
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary To Question 217-12(5): Impact Of Alberta Budget On Nwt
Question 217-12(5): Impact Of Alberta Budget On Nwt
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I appreciate the response that the Minister has given. I would like to know whether he will be giving special attention to the area of education. Education, as we just spoke about earlier today and yesterday, the direction towards 2010. We have a large number of students in Alberta from the Northwest Territories who are attending post-secondary educational facilities. I wonder if the Minister would give special attention to that area.

Supplementary To Question 217-12(5): Impact Of Alberta Budget On Nwt
Question 217-12(5): Impact Of Alberta Budget On Nwt
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 217-12(5): Impact Of Alberta Budget On Nwt
Question 217-12(5): Impact Of Alberta Budget On Nwt
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, I will certainly have the budget looked at to see what impact there will be on education as far as Albertans are concerned. I will leave the detailed analysis to the Department of Education, Mr. Nerysoo's department, to judge the impact on our territory. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 217-12(5): Impact Of Alberta Budget On Nwt
Question 217-12(5): Impact Of Alberta Budget On Nwt
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education and it's with regard to the costs of running Akaitcho Hall. I know that under their discussion paper on the strategy to 2010, they looked at an estimated needs assessment of capital money required. It goes up to about $843 million. Has the Minister also used the operation of Akaitcho Hall as part of those cost estimates, or is it that we close Akaitcho Hall and that's it? I think we should spend more capital dollars in the regions as opposed to keeping Akaitcho Hall open.

Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The cost estimates in the presentation yesterday, were based on actual school needs. It was the schooling needs that had to be dealt with. If you recall a comment by Ms. Balanoff that a factor that is not in here is the Arctic College programming, the post-secondary. These are just the actual school needs to respond to the needs of our children. It's the actual school needs. That includes the whole matter of responding to the growth of our communities, in other words the population. We

see it as being the requirement to respond to the educational facility needs.

I want to advise the honourable Member that one of the discussions that has gone on is with the Yellowknife Education District No. 1 about the possibility of utilizing Akaitcho Hall as additional instructional space. In other words, they need the instructional space for high school programming. So that possibility is there. In other words, we don't have to build new space but, in fact, renovate that particular space to provide high school programming. The reason is that there has been an expansion in the high school population. So that's one of the considerations as well, and we're looking at that. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

With the kind of direction that the western Arctic is going in, are we anticipating the same kind of direction from the eastern Arctic?

Supplementary To Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Madam Speaker

Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'm not clear, if the honourable Member could explain, maybe in another question. However, on the matter of closures of residences, generally in regional residences, we're reviewing the whole matter right across the Northwest Territories. We're considering the possible closure of Ukiivik, we're considering the closure of Grollier Hall because there is a decline in the number of students who are attending those particular residences. We're considering other uses for those particular residences, as well. It's all the result of an initiative on community high school programming. But it is our intention to move in that particular direction.

Further Return To Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

So, Iqaluit and Rankin Inlet would anticipate the same kind of direction.

Supplementary To Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes. Also Grollier Hall in Inuvik.

Further Return To Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Question 218-12(5): Cost Estimates On Education Programs
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake

.

Question 219-12(5): Alberta/nwt Hospital Agreement Affect On NWT Residents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Health. Madam Speaker, the Minister, just today, has referred to a proposed agreement that the Department of Health is thinking of entering into with the province of Alberta, particularly with the Royal Alexandra Hospital. I know that item was on the radio yesterday, and I have had some calls from constituents. I would like to get some clear understanding of just how this proposed agreement will affect the current situation, where through reciprocal billings agreements with provinces, NWT residents can go to any hospital in Canada. Will this agreement with Alberta change the reciprocal billings agreements with other provinces?

Question 219-12(5): Alberta/nwt Hospital Agreement Affect On NWT Residents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Health, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 219-12(5): Nwt/alberta Hospital Agreement Affect On Nwt Residents
Question 219-12(5): Alberta/nwt Hospital Agreement Affect On NWT Residents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

John Pollard Hay River

No, Madam Speaker, it won't. This agreement will be merely the destination -- as Charles Camsell was for many, many years -- referral hospital for the western Arctic and Kitikmeot, so it won't affect anything else. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 219-12(5): Nwt/alberta Hospital Agreement Affect On Nwt Residents
Question 219-12(5): Alberta/nwt Hospital Agreement Affect On NWT Residents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 219-12(5): Nwt/alberta Hospital Agreement Affect On Nwt Residents
Question 219-12(5): Alberta/nwt Hospital Agreement Affect On NWT Residents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Supplementary to the same Minister. Perhaps, just for clarity, what about in situations where a patient may now have a history with a doctor in Edmonton who does not have privileges at the Royal Alec. Will the patient have to find a new doctor or will the patient still be able to go the hospital where the doctor has the privileges?

Supplementary To Question 219-12(5): Nwt/alberta Hospital Agreement Affect On Nwt Residents
Question 219-12(5): Alberta/nwt Hospital Agreement Affect On NWT Residents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Health, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 219-12(5): Nwt/alberta Hospital Agreement Affect On Nwt Residents
Question 219-12(5): Alberta/nwt Hospital Agreement Affect On NWT Residents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It's the same situation that we had when we brought in the closest centre policy, and we'll have to work through those problems. I understand there are going to be some patients who say my doctor works at another hospital and your arrangement is now with the Royal Alec. We're going to have to work through those problems. As we've managed to convince people that we can deliver a service at Stanton Yellowknife, then I think it will be up to us to convince people that they can receive similar levels of service as other Edmonton hospitals, at the Royal Alec. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 219-12(5): Nwt/alberta Hospital Agreement Affect On Nwt Residents
Question 219-12(5): Alberta/nwt Hospital Agreement Affect On NWT Residents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 219-12(5): Nwt/alberta Hospital Agreement Affect On Nwt Residents
Question 219-12(5): Alberta/nwt Hospital Agreement Affect On NWT Residents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Supplementary, Madam Speaker. The Minister talks about convincing people that they can get the same services at another hospital. I'm sure that as Minister of Health you will recognize the importance of maintaining continuity when you have a physician. Is he saying that when you're going to work through this problem, there will be some weight given to the need to maintain the same physician you have a history with?

Supplementary To Question 219-12(5): Nwt/alberta Hospital Agreement Affect On Nwt Residents
Question 219-12(5): Alberta/nwt Hospital Agreement Affect On NWT Residents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Health, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 219-12(5): Nwt/alberta Hospital Agreement Affect On Nwt Residents
Question 219-12(5): Alberta/nwt Hospital Agreement Affect On NWT Residents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, the situation is that people in the Northwest Territories have doctors and nurses who they go to for treatment. Those doctors and nurses make referrals at times to either a regional hospital, like the one in Inuvik, the Baffin or Stanton. Sometimes they make referrals to other jurisdictions, be they Manitoba, Quebec or Alberta. Many times, those doctors will refer to another doctor in Edmonton. That's acceptable. For those people who have gone to see the same doctor time and time again, as I said, we're going to have to work through that problem.

But, what we're interested in, and the boards are interested in, is whether we could provide the same level of service at the new facility and I believe everybody's happy that this new facility can provide the same levels of service. Where I get problems with people who say that they've always attended a certain doctor and he/she doesn't have privileges at the new hospital, then I'll endeavour to work through the problem with those people. But, the main centre for referral is going to be the Royal Alexander Hospital in Edmonton. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 219-12(5): Nwt/alberta Hospital Agreement Affect On Nwt Residents
Question 219-12(5): Alberta/nwt Hospital Agreement Affect On NWT Residents
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Time for question period has lapsed. Item 6, written questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Written Question 13-12(5): List Of Courses Offered In NWT Schools
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 379

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you. My written question is for the Minister of Education. For each school in the Northwest Territories offering grades 10, 11 and/or 12, would the Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment please provide a list of the courses offered through direct instruction, rather than correspondence, by grade level?

Written Question 13-12(5): List Of Courses Offered In NWT Schools
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 379

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, petitions. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. Item 11, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 12, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for High Arctic, Mr. Pudluk.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 380

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to table the following document, Tabled Document 29-12(5), a letter to all Members of the Legislative Assembly from concerned citizens who supported my comments yesterday about wasteful use of public money by government departments. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 380

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 12, tabling documents. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 380

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wish to table the following two documents, Tabled Document 30-12(5), a letter from Jack Anawak, Member of Parliament for Nunatsiaq to the Honourable Pierre Paradis, Minister of the Environment regarding Hydro Quebec.

Tabled Document 31-12(5), a letter from Jack Anawak, Member of Parliament for Nunatsiaq to the Honourable Sheila Copps, MP, a copy of a letter written by the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi on behalf of the GNWT regarding the Great Whale hydroelectric project. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 380

Madam Speaker

Thank you. Item 12, tabling of documents. Item 13, notices of motion. Item 14, notices of motions for first reading of bills. This House will recess for 15 minutes.

---SHORT RECESS

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 380

Madam Speaker

I would like to call this House back to order. Item 15, motions. Motion 13-12(5), Mr. Lewis. Mr. Lewis is not in the House. This motion will drop from the order paper. Motion 14-12(5), Mr. Dent.

MOTION 15: MOTIONS

Motion 14-12(5): Establishment Of Special Joint Committee On Division, Carried
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 380

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The motion I'm going to present today has to do with the establishment of the Special Joint Committee on Division.

WHEREAS, Parliament has approved the creation of a Nunavut territory by 1999;

AND WHEREAS, division of the Northwest Territories will mean the creation of two new territories in the east and the west;

AND WHEREAS, the current Legislative Assembly and Government of the Northwest Territories will participate in preparing for the implementation of the Nunavut administration in the east and reforming public government institutions in the west;

AND WHEREAS, the Legislative Assembly and Government of the Northwest Territories have agreed to establish a mechanism which will provide for information exchange and effective joint decision-making on division issues;

AND WHEREAS, this mechanism must recognize the existing responsibilities, roles and mandates of the Legislative Assembly, its standing committees and caucuses, the Executive Council and the GNWT administration, as they may relate to the creation of two new territories;

AND WHEREAS, the Executive Council established a deputy minister level division review committee and a division review secretariat to coordinate the Government of the Northwest Territories' planning for and implementation of its obligations relating to the creation of two new territories;

AND WHEREAS, a caucus working group on division, composed of Members and Ministers, was established to make recommendations on the most effective approach to information exchange and decision-making on division issues;

AND WHEREAS, the caucus working group has reported, in December 1993 and again in February 1994, that a special joint committee on division is the preferred mechanism, given current circumstances;

AND WHEREAS, rule 88(2) authorizes this Assembly to increase the permanent membership of the special committee beyond the five Members which are provided in the rules because of its real or anticipated work load;

AND WHEREAS, rule 94(2) requires that the terms of references of all special committees be approved by this Assembly;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Sahtu, that this Assembly establish a special committee with equal representation from the east and west, to be named the Special Joint Committee on Division;

AND FURTHER, that, notwithstanding rule 88(2), that the special joint committee consist of eight permanent Members, comprised of six ordinary Members and two Ministers;

AND FURTHERMORE, that there be six alternate Members, comprised of four ordinary Members and two Ministers appointed to the Joint Special Committee on Division;

AND FURTHERMORE, that the following provisions be adopted as the terms of reference for the Special Joint Committee on Division.

Madam Speaker, at this point, because the remainder of the motion is very lengthy and was read into Hansard on Wednesday, February 23, I would request unanimous consent to consider the remainder of Motion 14-12(5) read and printed in Hansard.

Motion 14-12(5): Establishment Of Special Joint Committee On Division, Carried
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 380

Madam Speaker

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to consider the remainder of motion 14-12(5) read and printed in the Hansard. Are there any nays? There are no nays.

Motion 14-12(5): Establishment Of The Special Joint Committee On Division, Carried
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 380

Madam Speaker

Information Exchange Mandate

A primary function of the Special Joint Committee on Division will be to ensure a regular flow of information on division issues between and among the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council.

To achieve this objective, the special joint committee will:

1) Prepare written status reports on division issues, including the activities of the Special Joint Committee on Division, for regular distribution to all Members and the Executive Council.

2) As requested, prepare specialized written and oral briefings on division issues for Caucus, strategic planning workshops, the Nunavut and western Caucuses, standing committees and the Executive Council.

3) Provide the general public with updates on division issues through regular reports to the Legislative Assembly and through briefings for the northern and national media.

4) Contribute to public information programs which may be initiated by the federal and territorial governments, advisory agencies and other participants in the division process.

5) Redirect to Ministers, Members and the appropriate territorial, federal or advisory agencies any inquiries from the general public, interest and lobby groups for meetings and information.

Recommendation-Making Mandate

The special joint committee will also assume an important role in recommending how the Legislature and Executive Council should address division issues. In responding to this objective as quickly as possible, the special joint committee will, by April 30, 1994:

6) Develop recommendations on the following matters for consideration by the Executive Council and Legislative Assembly:

- matters which should be addressed and concluded during the terms of the current Executive Council and Assembly;

- matters which should be initiated by the current Executive Council and Assembly and concluded by their successors;

- matters to be dealt with by the 13th Legislature but which require recommendations from the current Executive Council and Assembly; and,

- matters which should be the exclusive responsibility of the next Executive Council and Assembly.

7) Develop recommendations for the establishment of independent special project panels to provide advice on division issues. Particular attention should be given to a panel on division of assets and liabilities.

8) Recommend to the Legislative Assembly a special joint committee budget which takes into account the following for fiscal years 1994-95 and 1995-96:

- special committee Members' indemnities and expenses

- independent special project panels

- professional services, including production of reports

- support staff

During the remainder of its mandate, the special joint committee will be expected to:

9) Develop recommendations on other matters which may be referred to the special joint committee from time to time by the Legislative Assembly, its standing committees and caucuses and the Executive Council, as well as other unforeseen issues identified by the special joint committee.

Liaison Mandate With Other Division Participants

From time to time, the special joint committee may be required to communicate with other participants in the division process.

In responding to this mandate, the special joint committee may:

10) Request advisory agencies, such as the Nunavut Implementation Commission and the western Constitutional Development Steering Committee and other participants in the division process, for research, analysis and recommendations which are required for the special joint committee, the Executive Council and the Legislative Assembly to meet their obligations relating to creation of two new territories.

11) Make recommendations, as required, to the Executive Council and the Legislative Assembly on the research, analysis and recommendations which are provided by advisory agencies and other participants in the division process.

Operation Of The Special Joint Committee On Division

In responding to these terms of reference and to organize itself for operation, the Special Joint Committee on Division may undertake the following:

12) Information and Analysis on Division Issues

Request information and analysis on division issues from the Executive Council, GNWT administration, federal government, advisory agencies, aboriginal organizations and other participants in the division process.

13) Consultations, Discussions and Meetings

The special joint committee will not hold public meetings but may be required to undertake consultations, discussions or meetings with government, aboriginal organizations, advisory agencies and other participants in the division process.

14) Special Joint Committee Co-chairs and Quorum Choose Nunavut/western co-chairs, representing the Executive Council and Legislative Assembly, from the permanent Members. The quorum for meetings will be six permanent and/or alternate Members present, with equal representation from Nunavut and the west, two of whom must be Ministers, one from Nunavut and one from the west.

15) Subcommittees of the Special Joint Committee on Division

Establish subcommittees of both permanent and alternate Members from time to time to consider and report back to the joint committee on special assignments.

Set the quorum for meetings of the subcommittees. There shall be at least one permanent or alternate Minister on each subcommittee.

16) Independent Special Project Panels

Establish and oversee the operation of independent special project panels of experts to examine and make recommendations on issues of importance to the creation of two new territories.

17) Support Staff

Hire permanent staff and contract professional services, as required, to assist the special joint committee. Request the temporary reassignment of GNWT officials to provide support to the committee on special projects.

Cooperation/Consultation With Executive Council, GNWT Administration And Legislative Assembly

The special joint committee, the Executive Council, the GNWT and the Legislative Assembly must coordinate their efforts to reduce the potential for overlap and duplication of work, and to maximize the use of resources on the division initiative. Accordingly, the special joint committee, in the fulfilment of its mandate will make every effort to:

18) Regularly coordinate, consult and cooperate with Caucus, standing committees, the Executive Council and GNWT administration, through the division review secretariat, on issues including, but not limited to, the following matters:

- the preparation of written status reports and specialized briefings on division issues;

- contributing to public information programs;

- developing recommendations on how the Executive Council and Legislative Assembly should address division issues;

- the establishment of independent special project panels;

- the preparation of budgets, hiring support staff and requesting the temporary assignment of GNWT officials;

- communicating with other participants in the division process; and,

- requesting information and analysis on division issues from the GNWT administration.

19) As required, seek direction from the Executive Council and/or the Legislative Assembly on any other matter that, in the opinion of the special joint committee, requires their attention.

Motion 14-12(5): Establishment Of The Special Joint Committee On Division, Carried
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 382

Madam Speaker

To the motion, Mr. Dent.

Motion 14-12(5): Establishment Of The Special Joint Committee On Division, Carried
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 382

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for this opportunity to briefly elaborate on the motion to establish a Special Joint Committee on Division. I will be brief because the motion, itself, provides more detail than this House normally expects in a motion to establish a special committee and approve its terms of reference. Madam Speaker, this level of detail does reflect the amount of work which Members have put into this division issue during the past ten months.

It was just last April, Madam Speaker, when Caucus devoted considerable time to the division issue at its first strategic planning workshop in Fort Providence. That we were discussing division at that time was not unique, given that it's been on this Legislature's agenda for more than a decade. However, as Members will recall, the focus of our discussion has changed.

For example, we have defined division as the creation of two new territories, and not just the establishment of a Nunavut administration. Moreover, Madam Speaker, the indicators were positive that the federal government would soon be introducing legislation to create Nunavut. Therefore, our focus in Fort Providence also shifted to the operational obligations of the Assembly and the Government of the Northwest Territories in planning for and implementing division.

Madam Speaker, in particular, Caucus considered how both could work jointly and cooperatively during the remainder of our term to ensure a positive contribution to the eventual creation of the two new territories. In keeping with this common objective, Caucus requested that further work be done on a mechanism for information exchange and decision making on division issues by the Assembly and the Government of the Northwest Territories. As Madam Speaker knows, a number of the proposals were considered at our Cambridge Bay strategic planning workshop in October and to further develop the most effective option, a Caucus working group of Members and Ministers representing Nunavut and the west was struck.

Madam Speaker, Caucus has considered reports from the working group on two occasions, the most recent being February 22, when Members reached a consensus that the most effective mechanism would be a Special Joint Committee on Division. Madam Speaker, I expect that the honourable Member for Sahtu, who seconded the motion, will be providing some additional details on the special joint committee in his remarks.

I should say that I believe this Assembly and government must act quickly in order that we can begin to meet some of our obligations for creating two new territories between now and 1999. The time remaining for both to make a productive contribution is between one year and 18 months, and there is much work still to be done. Madam Speaker, I'll conclude my remarks by simply urging all Members to support this motion.

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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Madam Speaker

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 15, motions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

WHEREAS, the terms of reference for the Advisory Committee on Social Housing were adopted on March 11, 1993;

AND WHEREAS, there is need to amend the terms of reference so as to ensure the effective operation of the advisory committee;

AND WHEREAS, the advisory committee are of the opinion that the terms of reference should be amended;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Aivilik that the following amended terms of reference for the Advisory Committee on Social Housing be adopted.

Madam Speaker, at this point, as the remainder of the motion is very lengthy and it was read into the Hansard on Wednesday, February 23, 1994, I would request unanimous consent to consider the remainder of Motion 15-12(5) read and printed into the Hansard.

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Madam Speaker

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to consider the remainder of motion 15-12(5) read and printed in the Hansard. Are there any nays? There are no nays.

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Madam Speaker

Purpose

- To provide ongoing advice from elected representatives to the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation and the Legislative Assembly on broad territorial social housing issues;

- And to provide a forum for the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation to share information and consult with elected representatives.

Structure

- three permanent Members from the east;

- three permanent Members from the west;

- chaired by the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation; and,

- two alternate Members, one from the east and one from the west.

Term

- for the duration of the 12th Legislative Assembly.

Mandate

The Advisory Committee on Social Housing shall:

a) inquire into such housing matters as may be referred to it by the Legislative Assembly;

b) review major new or revised policies or programs proposed by the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation;

c) review major issues arising from existing policies or programs of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation;

d) review the major housing issues arising from the community consultation undertaken by the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation with members of the public, local housing organizations, community governments and interest groups;

e) provide advice to the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation and the Legislative Assembly; and,

f) provide opportunities for all Members to raise concerns related to housing and to have input on housing issues on the review by the advisory committee.

Conduct Of Business

1. The Advisory Committee on Social Housing shall conduct its business in a manner approved by the Legislative Assembly;

2. The Advisory Committee on Social Housing shall appoint a chairman, who shall be the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. The chairman shall not vote;

3. The Advisory Committee on Social Housing shall appoint one of its Members to serve as a deputy chairman;

4. A quorum of the Advisory Committee on Social Housing shall consist of four Members, including the chairman; 5. The Legislative Assembly shall provide from its appropriations the necessary funds for the advisory committee to carry out its responsibilities;

6. The advisory committee shall have the power to sit during sessions, adjournments and recesses of the House;

7. Meetings of the Advisory Committee on Social Housing may be called at the discretion of the chairman, or a majority of Members, to deal with matters as required;

8. The advisory committee, as a whole, or individual Members, may undertake such travel as required to carry out the assigned responsibilities of the committee;

9. The Advisory Committee on Social Housing shall make regular reports to the Legislative Assembly, through the deputy chairman; and,

10. The necessary administration support for the Advisory Committee on Social Housing shall be provided jointly by the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation and the Legislative Assembly.

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Madam Speaker

Mr. Gargan, to the motion.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Last March, the original terms of reference for the Advisory Committee on Social Housing were tabled in this House. The Advisory Committee on Social Housing was created so MLAs could provide assistance and advice to the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation and to the Legislative Assembly on housing issues and to provide a forum for the Minister of Housing to share information and consult MLAs.

The amended terms of reference will make it possible for the committee to meet whenever important issues arise and the Members of the committee agree that the meeting is necessary. Members of the advisory committee will be able to undertake any travel which is required to carry out the assigned responsibilities of the committee. This would allow us to attend community and district meetings held to discuss housing and any other housing-related meetings. This will broaden our understanding of the issues and improve our ability to address them effectively.

Madam Speaker, under the current terms of reference, the Housing Corporation and the Legislative Assembly jointly provides the necessary funds for the advisory committee. We are proposing today that all necessary funds be provided by the Legislative Assembly. We view this arrangement as more appropriate for a legislative committee. The advised terms of reference also calls for an alternate Member from the east and an alternate Member from the west to be named to the Advisory Committee on Social Housing. The Members of the advisory committee are in unanimous support of the proposed amendment.

Madam Speaker, all Members of this House are aware of the critical shortage of housing across the Northwest Territories. They also know the situation is one of the most serious challenges we face as a government. Each of us here have constituents who need some assistance to improve their housing conditions. Everyone knows about the federal government's elimination of funding for new social housing and about this government's fight to get that funding reinstated.

The Advisory Committee on Social Housing can help play an important role in helping to solve these problems. Madam Speaker, we are committed to working with the Housing Corporation, the Minister, the Legislative Assembly, the local housing organizations and the people of the north to address the shortage of housing in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. To the motion.

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Some Hon. Members

Question.

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Madam Speaker

The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a particular concern regarding the amendments to this motion. In the structure, and it remains the same where there are three Members from the east and three Members from the west and chaired by the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. My concern is, under the mandate of the advisory committee, item (e), the committee is to provide advice to the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation and the Legislative Assembly. I see that as a contradiction and a possible conflict with the Minister being the chairperson of this advisory committee, while at the same time providing advice to himself. I just wanted to make that point. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. To the motion.

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Some Hon. Members

Question.

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Madam Speaker

The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I don't see any contradiction because usually the chairperson seeks advice from the membership. So, in that case, I support the motion. Thank you.

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. To the motion.

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Some Hon. Members

Question.

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Madam Speaker

Question has been called. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan, do you have concluding remarks?

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Yes, Madam Speaker. With regard to the conflict issue, I have had our legal advisor, Ms. MacPherson, give us an opinion on that. In this case, there is no conflict. Also, I think the Department of Justice was of the same opinion. There is no conflict, even though the Minister is the chair.

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Madam Speaker

Thank you.

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Some Hon. Members

Question.

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Madam Speaker

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Morin, you voted for and then you abstained.

---Laughter

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Madam Speaker

Item 16, first reading of bills. Item 17, second reading of bills. Item 18, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95; Committee Report 2-12(5), Review of the 1994-95 Main Estimates; Minister's Statement 5-12(5), Session Business; Tabled Document 1-12(5), Towards an NWT Mineral Strategy; Tabled Document 2-12(5), Building and Learning Strategy; Tabled Document 3-12(5), Towards a Strategy to 2010: A Discussion Paper; and, Tabled Document 11-12(5), First Annual Report of the Languages Commissioner of the NWT for the Year 1992-93, with Mr. Whitford in the chair.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee will now come to order. Good afternoon. What is the wish of the committee? Yesterday we were dealing with Bill 1, Committee Report 2-12(5) and Tabled Document 3-12(5). What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I recommend that the committee continue with consideration of Bill 1, Committee Report 2-12(5) and Tabled Document 3-12(5) and, in particular, continue with general comments on, Towards a Strategy to 2010: A Discussion Paper.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Okay. Does the committee agree that we proceed into Tabled Document 3-12(5), Bill 1 and Committee Report 2-12(5)? Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Tabled Document 3-12(5): Towards A Strategy To 2010: A Discussion Paper
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The Chair Tony Whitford

Does the Minister wish to bring in any witnesses?

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Yes, Mr. Chairman. I would like to bring in witnesses at this time.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Sergeant-at-Arms, would you escort the witnesses to the witness table? Mr. Minister, would you introduce your witnesses to the committee?

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my left is the deputy minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Hal Gerein. On my right is Mrs. Helen Balanoff, who is involved in the development of the strategy to 2010.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Mr. Dent.

General Comments

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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I welcome this opportunity to talk about the education strategy. I think it is long overdue, getting a discussion on this subject under way. For the record, I would like to say that I totally agree with my

colleagues from the Standing Committee on Finance that education should be this government's number one priority.

Yesterday, the Minister and Mrs. Balanoff outlined, in some detail, the reasons for the discussion paper being so long in coming and why it is so general. I do have to admit some disappointment that I don't see what we have been presented with as a strategy. I think that was admitted yesterday. It is more a listing of what needs to be considered in the development of the strategy. Given the importance of education, the importance that I put on it and I think this government should, I have to say I had hoped we would be farther along in the process. What I was expecting was that the discussion paper would take positions and present arguments as to why they should be adopted by the department as a road or path to follow as a method of stimulating the discussion.

I hope that we will shortly hear when we can expect that next step to take place. For example, if you take a look at pages 21 to 23 of the discussion paper, we had a clear delineation of what people have apparently expressed as concerns. What I find surprising is if people were expressing these concerns, I would have thought they would have also, at the same time, been expressing some ideas or strategies for dealing with those concerns. I am a bit surprised that they are not listed here.

As well, I think it is unfortunate that too many of the pathways or solutions that are discussed in the paper tend to be bland motherhood statements without recommending a clear direction that gives us anything new to discuss. For instance, a section on using resources for adult education and training, the report suggests that the department could determine our priorities in this area and target our resources to our priorities in partnership with communities and industry. I think that goes without saying. That is something we always knew the department could do and had hoped they were doing.

Another one is the department could find ways to deliver programs more efficiently, particularly by reducing administration costs. Again, I say given the financial situation we have been in for the past few years, I am surprised that we haven't already examined our administration costs and made sure that we have streamlined as much as possible, so we are doing things in the most effective and economic manner. Economic manner would be what I really want to say there.

Not to be overly critical, because we hit an important point yesterday. I think the Minister's statement yesterday is very important. I see it as reflecting a shift in the approach by the department and I welcome and encourage that shift. I really was pleased by the Minister's statement yesterday on excellence and I am encouraged by that shift in philosophy. I have to say on our first reading of this discussion paper, the Members of the Standing Committee on Finance were concerned that we didn't see any reference to excellence in the discussion paper. So having the Minister add that yesterday indicates a very important step has been taken by the department. That is good. As has been said earlier today in the House, rather than dwelling on what should have been done or how we could have gotten farther along in trying to lay blame, we have to take a very positive approach in trying to get things on the road.

In that light, I would like to make some comments that I would hope the department would immediately start to look for areas, for instance, in partnerships. That is one of the areas we have to get moving on very quickly.

When I was chairing the Special Committee on Health and Social Services, and Mrs. Balanoff mentioned yesterday in her presentation the early intervention program that we highlighted in Pelly Bay, this sort of program can make some significant differences. It is unfortunate that program didn't have a formal evaluation. But the informal comments I have heard from people who were involved in the program, tend to indicate that it was extremely successful and the children who were targeted are doing much better than might otherwise have been expected. That sort of program, if this department will cooperate with other departments like Health and Social Services to ensure we get some early intervention, I think offers us the best chance for improving our results overall. I would encourage that that area become a serious focus for examination. Whether it is a "head-start" program or an early intervention program, we have to be looking at the earliest possible intervention. From what I have seen, the earlier you can intervene to improve opportunities for success, the better your chances. That doesn't mean we can get away from the needs of people who may be a little bit on in their years, but still need some help. That is why I hope the Standing Committee on Finance recommendation for the partners for youth program will also be taken as an area for concentration by the department. Again, it requires cooperation from several departments.

In the discussion paper, there is some talk about the need for interdepartmental cooperation between Health, Social Services and Education. It all has to be tied together. There has to be a very broad approach to how we achieve success. In those areas, the department, I hope, sees ways in which to move and will agree to move in them very quickly. You have to do some consultation, you have to work with the boards, you have to work with people in the Northwest Territories, but now you have indicated that you have heard from people. I want to urge the department to get moving. Let's take the next step. Let's set out the priorities, plan and ask for a reaction to that plan. Let's get working to make sure we are providing the best system of education possible for all the people in the Northwest Territories. Mr. Chairman, let's get some results. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I concur with the honourable Member. I realize that sometimes the details may be absent, but the advice the honourable Member is giving is what we are looking for in terms of the things we need to do in the north. As we get that advice, we will become more specific about the actual ways which we respond to the comments made by the honourable Member regarding the working relationships or for that matter the partnerships and early intervention. It is our view that, as was stated by the honourable Member, early intervention is an absolutely essential part of our future programming that has to be considered in order for us to be even more successful.

When we go back to the Special Committee on Education in the early 1980s, it took them almost two years and almost $3 million to do the work. What that committee took two years to do, we did in one year. We understand the concern the honourable Member has made. While this is a discussion paper, it is our view that we want to have the document which outlines our responses broadly, not only that but more specifically, by June of this year. Then we can start to see what the solutions are.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Minister Nerysoo. General comments. Mr. Ningark.

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe that, as was mentioned many times during my time as a Member of this legislature, education is fundamentally important, not only to the government, but to the people in the small communities. It is so important that we should not lose sight of getting the parents and communities involved. In this report, under the heading partnership, more community control should be given to the communities. I agree with that 100 per cent, Mr. Chairman. There are many times in a community when the parents should be involved in the educational system, but because they are not able to spend time in school, they don't seem to be a part of the education system, although they are very sensitive to the type of education that is given in their respective community.

One of those is an important factor of educating the young people, especially in predominantly native communities, in traditional skills. I don't see that in the report here. I think this is fundamentally important to all the people in the small communities, in the west and in the east.

During my time as a Member of this Legislative Assembly, I travelled quite extensively in the Kitikmeot region, meeting with divisional boards, the Kitikmeot regional council, the KIA, and those people involved in traditional activities in that region. At just about every opportunity, what was brought up by the people who do not have the benefit of having gone through an elementary type of education, was the importance of young kids knowing how to survive on the land, especially in this harsh environment.

There are people who have full-time jobs, but on the weekends they go out hunting, not really knowing how to survive in the event that the elements have not taken a liking to the person who is out there. Especially to young people, survival is very, very important. I thought that traditional skills should be part of the system, not only in the classroom but out on the land as well. I think Mr. Gargan has mentioned that many times. I should give the Member credit for that .

When I spoke of the utilization of high schools in Yellowknife by students from other regions, I may have sounded like I am not supporting the high schools in the regions. Quite on the contrary, Mr. Chairman, I think that the best thing that has ever happened since education was introduced to smaller communities, is that the government is finally building high schools in the regions. I hope the small communities will be the next step so that every community will have their own education system including high school and post-secondary education. If we want to academize people -- maybe I can use a new term here -- then we should really bring education to the community. Not the community to education, but education to the community. This is very important.

In question period earlier, I mentioned that I know the Minister is trying his very best to try to get quality education but there are overflows in the regions. I know that because of the kids in my community, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there was a fair amount of interest shown by the Ordinary Members' Caucus in Tabled Document 3-12(5), Towards a Strategy to 2010: A Discussion Paper. Most of the Ordinary Members' Caucus are not able to be here for this debate because of the other function they're attending. So, if I may, I wish we can wait until we have other Members in attendance, people like Mr. Patterson and other people who I know are interested in this particular document. I wish they could be here during the time when we discuss it.

Again, I would like to commend the Minister and his department officials for the initiative they have taken. I think most of the speakers in this particular debate recognized that the Minister, Mr. Richard Nerysoo, has done a remarkable job in putting this strategy together. I would like to commend the Minister for that. Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. General comments. The chair recognizes Mr. Ballantyne.

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Mr. Chairman, first of all I would like to thank Ms. Balanoff for a very informative presentation. I know she's done a lot of work in this whole area for a long time. She deserves a lot of credit. She did a very good job. The Premier and the government also have to get some recognition for the reorganization of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. I think this particular reorganization was the right one. It was a good one and it brings together the proper resources to deal with a lot of the problems that are facing us in the territories.

Mr. Nerysoo comes to the portfolio as a very experienced Minister. He's got a long-range perspective on the north in politics and how a Minister functions. Mr. Gerein, who I've known for a long time, is, I think, one of our most able and thoughtful deputy ministers. I think the team is in place to do some very good things in this area. I think we have to go back a little bit when I'm giving some credit here. I think Mr. Kakfwi and Mr. Handley did a lot to set the scene to get us to where we are right now. They provided a pretty solid base that the new team can jump off from.

We talked about excellence and there are a lot of good ideas in this discussion paper. I think Charles has said, very well, that now the time has come to put these ideas into a format where we can start to get results. The two major components, to me, of any education strategy are as follows. The first one is excellence. We've talked a lot about that. The other one is one that is sometimes forgotten, and any success in education comes through a partnership with parents, administration, teachers, boards and the Legislative Assembly. They all have to work together. But, there has to be always one test that you put any policy through and that is, is it good for the student?

What happens a lot of time is that policies can be good for the politicians because they look good. Or it could be good for the bureaucrats because it facilitates the bureaucratic process. Or it can be good for the administrators because whatever their pecking orders may be, it is good for that. A lot of times we lose that primary focus. To me, any policy, any objective, goal or strategy put in place always has to pass that test. Will it lead us to excellence and is it best for the student? I think if you keep those as the fundamental basics, it would be pretty hard to go wrong.

What I see coming from this is a tremendous amount of discussion, dialogue and consultation. We've done a lot of that. I think what the Minister needs right now is a short, strong agenda with really tight time frames that is really action-oriented, as well as definitive objectives with accountability built in. I think the Minister has to move fast and move hard on this. I think it's so important now, and it's important in both the east and the west. In the east, moving into a new territory, it is important to set the scene for this as a major priority, to say these are our objectives. That should translate into either territory. I applaud the work that has been done by the department. My only advice is that now is the time for strong action. Thank you, very much.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Mr. Minister, did you wish to respond? General comments. Mr. Arvaluk.

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am happy to see the report that I had discussions about earlier in my political career. I am proud that there are some positive directions that will take place. At least, directions for us to work on. It is important for NWT residents, whether you are a parent, student or citizen, to achieve the strategy to the year 2010.

I cannot forget when I went to school, because there were no high schools -- in fact, I think the federal government had a policy not to put aboriginal people beyond grade nine or maybe it was too expensive -- I had to go to school elsewhere like everyone else. When I went to high school, I found it so easy that I declared that by 1970, all Inuit or aboriginal people will have university degrees. You can virtually do grades nine to 11 in nine months. However, the atmosphere changed. The parents were changed by society or perhaps governmental policies. In other words, how to behave towards your children or how to leave them alone and have the teacher become a babysitter. It will be very important that we get the parents back into the process, not just leave it up to the teachers. I welcome this document. I know there are still a lot of things missing, but I am willing to work with this document so that the inevitable situation does not take place. That is depression, recession and lack of development in terms of the economy or human resources. With that, I am very happy that Towards a Strategy to 2010: A Discussion Paper, has been tabled. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. General comments. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is difficult to say any more. I appreciate the advice that Members have given us. I did offer to meet individually with MLAs previously. As we get on with some of the work, I am hoping maybe some of the individual MLAs who have specific ideas or specific issues we hope we can address in developing the strategy, that we can get their advice and input. Please feel free to communicate with me on some of the more specific issues that you may have and the specific suggestions you might be prepared to give. By June of this year, we will have the details as a result of this discussion document to present to Members of Cabinet and, of course, yourselves and the general public for additional discussion this fall. Then we can get final approval.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Ningark.

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since the document, Towards a Strategy to 2010: A Discussion Paper, is very important, not only to Members of this Legislature, I would like to ask the Minister if divisional boards have been made aware of the strategy or given a copy? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes. In fact, they have already provided input into some of the issues that are a part of the discussion document at this juncture. We have requested some more specific advice from them. We sent the information to most of the CECs, hamlets, all of the chiefs and councils, all of the Metis locals and we have provided it to any other organizations that are involved in education and cultural programming. We hope to have their advice and input during this process.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. These documents are now public documents. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, if there are no further comments from other Members, I would suggest we move into consideration of the departmental budget and Committee Report 2-12(5).

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Does the committee agree that we are concluded with Tabled Document 3-12(5)? Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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Some Hon. Members

Department Of Education, Culture And Employment

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Mr. Minister, perhaps you want to retain the witnesses who were available for this discussion or exchange them for other witnesses. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wish to ask Mrs. Balanoff to leave and replace her with Mr. Paul Devitt, the finance administrator for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mrs. Balanoff, on behalf of the committee, we wish to thank you for your participation and very thorough presentation. Thank you.

---Applause

The Sergeant-at-Arms will escort you out and escort the new witness to the table. Mr. Minister, for the benefit of the committee, would you introduce your new witness, please.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. For this presentation, on my left again is Mr. Hal Gerein, the deputy minister. On my right is Mr. Paul Devitt who is in charge of finances.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. I believe when we concluded, the opening remarks had already been concluded. We're on the main estimates for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, beginning on page 18-12. Does the committee agree that we're into general comments now? Or detail? What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, before we get into detail, I know I have some questions about the definitive objectives of the department. So, I would hope that we can agree that we weren't quite as far ahead yet as page 18-12 or page 18-13 and that we can continue with general comments, at your discretion.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. If you wish to comment on the definitive objectives, I believe they are on page 18-8. Mr. Dent.

General Comments

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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Actually, Mr. Chairman, I have some questions under the directorate and administration definitive objectives. One of the definitive objectives is to provide drafting instructions to the Department of Justice to enable a new Education Act to be tabled in the fall of 1994. That being this fall, I would like some understanding from the Minister as to how the strategy paper that we have just been discussing, fits into the drafting of the new Education Act? I would suspect that the strategy would have some impact on what might turn up in the draft of an Education Act. So I am wondering what the time frame is for consideration of that strategy in order that you can have results back in time to have instructions from the

Department of Justice so that we can see this act in the fall? It sounds impossibly tight to me.

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The Chair Silas Arngna'naaq

Thank you, honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake. Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One might say it's ambitious but I think it's necessary. The comments that have been received in this whole process indicate that there is a need for a new Education Act. The new Education Act should be responsive to this strategy in terms of the direction we receive so we can implement the strategy. There are also changes that are of immediate concern that have to be included in the new legislation. From the timetable perspective, in our view, it was best to do both at the same time. In other words, deal with the strategy and the Education Act so that the legislative proposal would be reflective of any new initiatives or any new changes that were necessary to ensure we're carrying out both aspects. In that sense, we are preparing to respond. If there are any obvious changes, we would have to come back and account for those changes but I think it is necessary to proceed with the legislative change.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

I appreciate the need to move quickly on this and I agree with the need to move quickly, but I'm concerned that it's going to be a difficult road. My encouragement would be to make sure the department has enough resources provided to the development of the strategy and the follow-up on the discussion paper to make sure that input to the discussion paper is adequately assessed and responded to.

Another question might be then that I don't think I heard about a specific date today. Does the Minister have a specific date for having the next phase of the discussion paper completed?

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

In the discussion you may not have heard me, but I indicated that the next phase, where we have the actual draft strategy itself, is June 1994. We would then come out with detailed documentation. I should inform the Member as well that we've already had one round of discussions on amendments to the Education Act. We've revamped some of the proposals to respond to the circumstances today. In other words, the documentation that I received when I became a Minister was about a year old, I believe. At that time, there were discussions that took place.

What I've done is brought the issue back to the table again and we are now bringing forward a revamped discussion paper that has already had input from the divisional boards on the changes. We are going to send that out as part of the discussion documentation and the strategy development. Those two documents are going to be placed side by side, and they are reflective of the changes that have already been suggested by the general public. In that case, I believe we have over 50 submissions to amend the Education Act.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under educational development, one of the definitive objectives for the next year is to initiate the transfer of senior secondary schooling responsibilities to Yellowknife Education District No. 1. Earlier today, the closure of Akaitcho Hall was a subject of some discussion. This is somewhat related to it, I guess, but not specifically. What I would like to know is if we could get an update on the status of the agreement, if there is such an animal at the moment, for transfer of Sir John to Yellowknife Education District No. 1?

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member will recall that we had a discussion and he advised me about some concerns he had before session began. I indicated to him at that time that I was considering the idea of proposing a meeting with the district board. I did hold that meeting at their offices along with staff members. We submitted to them a memorandum of understanding for the transfer. They indicated they wanted an opportunity to review the document and they would advise us of some of the changes they would consider. We've since had discussions with them and they've submitted proposals for changes and additions to the MOU. We're almost at a point where both sides are happy and we're pretty close now to signing an MOU of the process of transferring that particular institution.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the Minister for that response. I hope the Minister will keep the House informed as negotiations continue. Under culture and careers' definitive objectives, one of them is to complete and implement the NWT child day care program and policy. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that before Christmas the Minister told the House that we could expect to have the new child day care policy provided to the House in this session. It would seem, given this definitive objective for the year starting April 1, 1994, that would not be possible. I was wondering if the Minister could clarify that, please.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member is correct, with the exception that I did indicate that we had more research work as a result of the symposium that occurred. As a result of the need for us to change some very significant aspects of the existing child care policy, we are proposing in the future that it be titled differently, titled as early child care and development policy. As a result of that, there are additional principles that need to be adopted by Cabinet. And, there is another component where we're considering restructuring the way in which we provide financial assistance to child centre. Those two elements are going to be going forward to Cabinet for their approval within the next several weeks. It will guide us in terms of new ideas for the policy.

There are things we want to consider as part of the new policy, early childhood health and development, equality of access, and a range of services including parenting workshops, community and cultural-based early childhood care and development programs as well as the whole matter of training early childhood and care development staff. The honourable Member will recall his presentation on this matter and the recommendations of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services. There was concern in the general public that we didn't have enough trained staff for that responsibility.

There are other issues that we're also looking at. Options such as preschool programs, day care centres, family day homes, toy-lending libraries, resource centres, child development centres and parenting workshops. So, as you can see, we're looking at a child care program that is far more expansive than the existing one and, as a result of that, we need research to complete the elements of that particular policy. I understand the concern that the honourable Member has raised, but he can appreciate the reasons why it is taking us a bit more time. The other element is -- and I pointed this out earlier this session -- when the symposium was planned, it was planned almost two months earlier than when it was actually carried out. The reason we conducted the symposium in September rather than July was on the advice of the child care centres. They didn't feel they were going to be a part of the symposium because some of them were not available. We responded positively and cancelled the symposium for two months. So, we are sort of two months behind now, not because we're not prepared to listen. That was the whole purpose. You can appreciate the reasons why some of the things are moving a little slower.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One final question on definitive objectives. Under culture and careers, there is a definitive object to develop and implement the GNWT income support strategy in cooperation with the Department of Social Services. I know that the Standing Committee on Finance supports the direction that the two departments appear to be headed on this issue. We're anticipating seeing further detail to be sure that we're totally comfortable with it but I know what we heard in the Standing Committee on Finance made us feel that the two departments were probably headed in the right direction.

I have a bit of a concern that some of the changes we see in the budget may be reflective of an expectation that this strategy will be ready to take off fairly quickly. I suspect that it won't be fully set up, that all the alternatives will be explored and there will be agreement between Social Services and Education in time for it to have much effect in the coming budget year. I would just like to get a feeling from the Minister as to when he sees the income support strategy being finalized, having gone through Cabinet, and ready to be implemented?

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

I guess I can't answer definitively because some of these elements are going to be phased in. In other words, some aspects are going to be done immediately and some are going to be done over the next year and a half. We are considering implementation of revisions for income security in conjunction with the federal process.

One of the interesting aspects of discussions that have taken place over the last several months is that the federal government has made the decision to reform their social security programs nationally. We are also part of that initiative. Their goal is to have the changes complete within the next two years. We are working with them to make changes to national programs but also in the interim we are negotiating agreements that will put in place some of the initiatives we're undertaking immediately.

We are also considering negotiating other arrangements to respond to some of the pilot initiatives they have also proposed. So, there are some changes that will occur immediately and some will take some time. The other element is that there are draft legislative changes that could be

proposed over the next two months or so that will help us put in place these initiatives.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. I have Mr. Ballantyne, Mr. Arvaluk and then Mr. Ng.

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Mr. Chairman, I wanted to focus now on the area of special needs. A few years ago, the government and the department decided to adopt the philosophy of mainstreaming and caused certain things to happen. I think everybody agrees with the principles of mainstreaming, bringing kids with learning disabilities together with kids who don't have any. They learn a lot about interacting and a lot about compassion and helping each other. I think in a lot of cases, it's valid.

But, as the Minister knows, there are a number of problems that have been created by the philosophy of mainstreaming. Some examples are the numbers of kids who are victims of fetal alcohol syndrome who are coming into the school system now and the number of kids who are victims of family violence and sexual abuse. The subsequent psychological problems they have are coming into schools. What is happening now is the teacher who is attempting to teach a normal workload to a class is finding that more and more of their attention has to be focused on special needs kids.

The original idea was that there would be enough resources to provide assistance to teachers in the way of special needs teachers who would be in the classroom. Two things have happened. One is the number of special needs students is increasing. At least it is here in the schools I'm familiar with. I don't have any statistics, but I would be interested in statistics across the territories. And, the resources allocated in the formula for special needs have not kept pace with the demands.

What happens then is that my original premise of having a system based on excellence and doing the best you can for students starts to fall down. The teacher spends more time with special needs kids which means less time for the rest of the kids in the class. Then, if there aren't people adequately trained for special needs kids, those kids aren't getting the specialized treatment they need. So, rather than it being a positive experience for everyone, it becomes a negative experience for everyone. I know there is a study being undertaken by the department now. The Minister said he would give the Standing Committee on Finance results of that study. Part of the solution is money. But like everything else, we are not going to have enough money to solve all of the problems. The other part of it is more flexible policies by the department. The areas of special needs, like most areas in education, there are no definitive rights and wrongs. There are shades of theories about the best way to deal with certain issues. The reality is different kids with special needs differ from one community to another. Some teachers are better able to cope than others. Some administrations are better able to deal with this than others. It is really impossible to come up with one rigid policy that fits all cases. We obviously need some more resources. The Finance Minister will be doing his job because there are so many other areas in the government that need resources. Yet, it comes down to a matter of priorities.

Another area is we have to allow a lot more flexibility in how we deal with special needs. For instance, I think there is a place in schools for some pull-out programs. I am not saying you want to take special needs kids away from the other kids all the time. But in some cases in some schools, that should be an option. It is an option that can work.

In larger centres, there is a need for specialized schools. The learning centre in Yellowknife is an example.

For other kids, their emotional difficulties are so great they probably should be pulled out of the system and given the professional assistance that they need. It is really unfair to expect a teacher to try to deal with severe emotional behaviour. There are cases in Yellowknife of kids who have severe emotional behaviour. Over the years, I have had kids in four schools, in both the Catholic and public system, and there has been a noticeable increase in the number of special needs kids. There has been a noticeable impact on the level of education.

I think this is key. Everything else in the education strategy will start to fall apart if you don't deal with this one. This one will weaken the overall system. I, for one, think there has to be a compassionate way of doing this. I am not saying you put all special needs kids into a ghetto. I really think there have to be a lot more innovative and flexible approaches to dealing with special needs kids everywhere in the territories. I would just ask for the Minister's comments and observations on this particular area.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Personally, I don't like the use of the word "mainstreaming" because I think it gives the connotation that somehow we want everyone to be equal and be the same. The circumstances don't always allow us to do that. We are not trying to create a policy that is inflexible. The fact is we are trying to include those who have special circumstances to be part of our general school system. There is a real need for us to develop specific strategies. Specific strategies doesn't mean that we have to be hard line one way or the other in terms of the delivery of programs to the students who need our support.

One problem for me that raises a very significant concern at times is the unwillingness of some of the educational leaders to appreciate the importance of trying to develop the appropriate strategy to deal with special needs children in their educational area.

The other thing is there is a kind of view held by some of the leaders that somehow these special needs students are so different and unmanageable that they should not have any responsibility for providing them with educational programs and services. That position is the opposite to what many parents and educational leaders have and that is there is an opportunity to do both. There is an opportunity to bring students with special needs into the general school population, while, at the same time, offering to those who need the additional support, specific and specialized educational programs to deal with their problems. I do agree in some ways that we shouldn't be so inflexible as a department. But the fact is if one reads the policies in place, there is flexibility allowed. What is very difficult for me is to get to a point where I can convince some of the educational leaders to be more open and innovative about the educational programming in order for us to meet the special needs of students.

The other element that has to be considered is when you do have schools specific, it is an additional cost. We cannot ignore the fact that there are additional costs to that. At the same time, I can appreciate the concern the honourable Member has raised. The one option that is always considered is schools within schools. In other words, identifying specific classrooms in existing educational facilities and delivering programs to those students in that environment, so they are not considered to be so different from other children that they feel unwanted and in a situation where they totally isolate themselves because they are seen as being different. In that context, we don't differ very significantly in how we try to address the issue. It is just that from experience in the system, I have seen how some of our leaders are dealing with this issue and it is not very proactive, as suggested by yourself earlier. We should become proactive and try to be innovative about the solutions we have.

I have spoken to Mr. Ballantyne, Mr. Chairman, on a number of occasions and he has given me some positive ideas as to how we might address this. It just seems sometimes we are banging our heads against the wall to try to bring others along with a view to address positively the needs of these children. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Ballantyne.

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

(Microphone turned off)...I want to make it clear that it isn't just a criticism I am making of the department. I agree with the Minister. So much of the policy direction in schools has been given over to divisional boards and boards here in Yellowknife and they also bear responsibility for coming up with innovative solutions and recognizing that there is a reality. In the future, there isn't going to be as much money as we all want to do these things. That is a reality that has to sink in. I am using this forum to talk to more than just the Department of Education. It is something that everyone, the partners I talked about before with the parents being a very important part, has to recognize and recognizing there has to be flexibility and moderation in dealing with these things. There are no hard answers one way or the other. I mean I think we have to be compassionate

towards kids who have special circumstances, as the Minister says. I also don't like the word mainstreaming, but it wasn't one that I originated.

On the other hand, there is the responsibility we have to all the other kids, too, to find those balances. It goes back to what I was saying earlier about the leadership that it is going to take by the Minister and by the department to try to bring these people together, heading in the same direction collectively, so it doesn't become an issue, which it is now. People can say the territorial government won't give us money, therefore we're not going to deal with it until they give us money. Then we have checkmate, nothing works and everybody loses. There's a lot of that going on and it's because it doesn't pass the test about what's good for the kids. Unfortunately, a lot of the relationships that have developed between partners don't pass that test.

I just encourage the Minister to keep pursuing this. I'll continue to pursue it with our boards here and I hope other MLAs will do that because it's a very important issue and an issue that, whether people like it or not, has significant impact on the success of our education system. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just more specifically on the whole matter in Yellowknife. I've met with the parents of students in the learning centre here to hear their concerns and suggestions. I've also advised the boards about my concern with the unwillingness to resolve some of the internal problems. It's the same issue that comes up with other boards across the Northwest Territories.

But, we have some very good experiences as well. I'm thinking of the Keewatin which is spending additional resources for special needs out of their surpluses. There is also the extraordinary commitments by the Baffin, the work in the Hay River school with the concept of pod learning. That is the kind of stuff that we have had good experiences with in the north and we should utilize the experience and move forward from that experience to new situations to positively address educational needs for all our children.

You pointed out that there are a number of things that we have to deal with. One, how do we address the issue of magnet communities, where we have facilities such as group homes? How do we deal with the question of counselling resources. That is another point the honourable Member raised. There is also the idea of early intervention which we think is important. It is not only important in terms of the existing problems we have, and I won't necessarily say they are problems, but situations that exist. There is also the need for us to improve staff development. Some of these situations could be dealt with better if we had the advice and knowledge that these educators need to deal with these situations. We need to facilitate educational programming. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Oh, Mr. Ballantyne, I thought you were done. Sorry. Mr. Ballantyne.

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I appreciate that. I guess the lesson for all of us is that there is no one single solution. There has to be a range of solutions and there have to be people prepared to be flexible and reasonable. I think everything is manageable if you look at it that way. I still would ask the Minister to look at the special case of the centre in Yellowknife. Having met with the parents, the Minister will recognize the frustration and despair that parents have when they have kids with learning disabilities who aren't making it in the system.

When they find a lifeline and for the first time start to see some positive results, that's more important than a dry discussion about policy. We're talking about their kids and hopeless situations. Now there are some results. When we are talking about flexibility, I also think that there are going to be some

cases where compassion and common sense will dictate that something may not fit exactly in a policy but it makes sense.

I would just ask the Minister to be sympathetic towards that particular school. They have quite an extraordinary teacher. Beulah Phillpot has been working with these kids for a long time and they are really, really getting somewhere. They are making progress with these kids. What I would like to see the government doing and the Department of Education doing is when they see success, build on it. As opposed to saying well, your success doesn't fit in with our policies and therefore, we will ensure that ultimately, you'll fail. That doesn't make sense. If they are out there, let's embrace them. Let's change our policies and be proactive in that area.

The last thing I would like to talk about is the recommendation of the Standing Committee on Finance and the partners for youth model. As the Minister knows, and all of us who have been working in government for a few years now, dealing with social problems is probably the most difficult task any of us have and it doesn't lend itself readily to solutions. It is very frustrating and very difficult. If anything, the situation is getting worse rather than better. If you look at this from a school perspective, social problems that have accumulated obviously come into the school. Whatever they are, they manifest themselves in different ways in the school whether it's aggressive behaviour in the playground, or kids aren't able to learn because they didn't have breakfast that morning, the whole range, kids who have been abused. I think it's very important to try to deal with it.

In a lot of communities, the school is the one common place where everybody in that generation for a certain period of time is there. So you can capture a total audience or a target group. Anywhere else you do it in the community you get bits and pieces of it. If you decide that early intervention is important...I think it really is, I think it's key. What the corrections department does, for instance, at the other end costs five times as much to keep them in jail than it does to do something when people are young and much more likely to have success. The studies have shown that if you deal with it in the school it has a tremendous positive impact on the community itself, it spills out. I see the school of the future in the north becoming more of a centre point in a community, more of a focal point that we've seen before as we get more into communications, into modern technology, in to a whole range of options available in the 1990s .

As long as I remember, we've always talked about, and every report that has ever come out that has dealt with social problems always talked about departments having to work together. We've heard that and everybody agrees.

The problem with the way governments are structured in Canada, departmental structures, is that it is functionally impossible to do that, with all the best intentions. It becomes difficult to do because there are vertical hierarchies and the cross linkages aren't there. It's not anyone's fault. I know your deputy Minister works very hard at those relationships. But it is difficult to formalize those relationships on an ongoing basis. A lot of time, it depends on certain individuals who are enlightened enough to see it only works if you work together.

One reason is that from the top down, the concept of harmonization between departments hasn't worked because, structurally, it's difficult. One thing they've found with school-based social delivery programs -- and I talked to people in San Diego where they are using it -- in the inner cities now, in some of the larger cities in the States, where they have much worse social problems than us. They have terrible social problems, a total breakdown, really, of social order in some of the ghettos of the United States -- is that by bringing together in the school, a social worker, nurse, parole officer and the police, the school becomes their point of contact. It's not their departments, but real people actually working together there in the trenches. It is much more difficult far away, like in Yellowknife or in the regional centre.

They found that just having these resources available in the school -- and there is a pilot project in Edmonton, also -- that the costs aren't that much larger. You just refocus where your resources are used and you're able to do a number of things. Things like violence in the schools go down considerably because there are people right there. Second, you're able to identify problem kids very early and you're able to intervene very early with those kids, with a much better chance of providing assistance to them. Third, the positive things in the school start to spread to the community around it. It has really worked.

Like I said, there's no magic in anything. And there is no magic in this solution like any other solution, but the committee feels very strongly that this model is worth a very serious try. We would really like to see this set up in every region by the next school year. Obviously, in some areas, you are not going to have a group of 15 people, as they have in Edmonton. In some regions, it might make sense to have three or four people. Practical reality and common sense will make this thing work. I would just like to hear the Minister's initial response to this type of approach.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the matter of the learning centre here in Yellowknife, I want to indicate to the honourable Member and all Members of Yellowknife that I have instructed my staff and they are carrying out a meeting with both district boards here to resolve this matter, to come to a solution to how we deal with the learning centre and the delivery of programming for those students. A

meeting will be held on that specific issue. We are trying to be proactive in trying to bring about a resolution in that matter.

With regard to the suggestion that had been made by the standing committee, the partners for youth initiative, as the honourable Member pointed out, it is an inter-agency cooperative effort being implemented in Alberta. It is interesting to note that we don't pay much attention to our own, but a similar model has been implemented in Arviat. That's one of the reasons for the success of the high school programming in that community.

There are a number of community agencies that are working together right now, including the business community, that have been involved in programming in the schools. I agree with the advice that has been given and I want to indicate to Members here that we recently signed an interdepartmental agreement with Health, Social Services and Education for coordinating the planning and delivery of social policy area programs and services. What we need to do now with this agreement is to agree on specific protocols between the respective departments that clearly outline areas of responsibility and the process by which cooperation is to occur at the community, regional and departmental levels. We need to do that.

We have now a tri-ministerial committee of deputy ministers who are currently identifying critical needs for interdepartmental and inter agency cooperation. Over the next few months, we will be drafting an implementation plan for cooperative and coordinated action and delivery of services in the social policy area. That includes the whole matter of how we address cooperative action in responding to student needs in our schools. That is one element of that.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. Next on my list is Mr. Arvaluk. Then Mr. Ng, Mr. Pudlat and Mr. Ningark.

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just need a clarification on the third line of definitive objectives on page 18-9. I thought the department stated last year that mobilization of career centres to NWT communities were already being implemented. I need clarification on that.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The career centres were established a year ago. Now what we're trying to do is to make sure those regional career centres deliver services to the communities. That's generally what we're trying to accomplish with the mobilization efforts. In other words, tying in the communities to the regional centres.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. Mr. Arvaluk.

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

When do you expect this to be implemented? The objective says "develop and implement" a plan. When do you expect this to be implemented?

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

We need to first of all plan how the regional centres are going to provide the best services to our communities. That's what we have to do. Things like inter-community communication and how we set up programs in our communities, that work still has to be done. That's what we're working on in this upcoming year.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. Next on my list is Mr. Ng.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have a few questions or points of clarification on the definitive objectives. Under directorate and administration, the second from the last objective is to develop a directive on hiring teachers. I'm just curious, is there not a policy in place? Is this an amendment to an existing policy? If that's the case, are there problems currently in the recruiting policy for teachers? Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Could I ask Mr. Gerein to respond to that specific question, please.

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Gerein

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is to develop a comprehensive guideline for all the boards to use in their hiring, documentation and evaluation processes with respect to teachers. Currently it is quite fragmented because it has been handed over in pieces and also isn't comprehensive. Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gerein. Mr. Ng.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

So would you say there are problems in the recruitment process because of the fact that it is fragmented and not standardized? Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Mr. Gerein.

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Gerein

We have found some problems where there has been inadequate documentation, a lack of collaboration or advance notice between the board and the Department of Personnel. It has sometimes put us in a jam with respect to actually doing teacher recruitment in appropriate time frames. Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gerein. Member for Kitikmeot.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

My second question is under educational development, on page 18-8, it says, "To complete the implementation of the new senior secondary science curriculum for the grade 12 level." Is that throughout the NWT where there is grade 12 or plans to create grade 12 programming?

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Alberta changed their science curriculum a year ago. We began the introduction of that new science program this year. This upcoming year, we will complete the implementation of all components of that new curriculum.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. Member for Kitikmeot.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Are there going to be additional resources required because of this new curriculum? If so, have those resources been identified yet?

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Ng. Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There will be some minor resource requirements and they are included in the allocation in this budget.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Member for Kitikmeot.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My next question is relating to the school community counsellors and the training of the 14 additional school community counsellors. Are there no standards currently in place for training of these school community counsellors?

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could I ask the honourable Member to clarify the matter of the standards? Generally speaking, the training of the counsellors is similar no matter which jurisdiction or what region you are from. In other words, it is the same curriculum. So perhaps he could explain that to me.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Member for Kitikmeot.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is a training program in existence for school community counsellors. What type of training would encompass this training program for these counsellors? I am not aware of it in my region.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand now and I have spoken to my deputy minister. If the honourable Member will recall, some years ago we began the student counselling program. We started it, we stopped it, we started it and we stopped it. Now we are starting it again. We realize there is a need for student community counsellors in our schools. This is the beginning of our retraining program again. We are bringing in some new trainees and counsellors to train. Over the next three years, it is our intention to train an additional 30 new school counsellors for our schools.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. Mr. Ng.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

So it is from the existing pool of community counsellors? Or, are those additional positions?

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. These are additional ones. It is our intention to try to have at least one school counsellor in every school in the Northwest Territories.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Member for Kitikmeot.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Of the incumbent school community counsellors, are they all currently trained?

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

I am not sure about that matter. I would have to go back and check to review the training of every counsellor. Generally speaking, most of the ones we have recruited have gone through our training program.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Member for Kitikmeot.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Could the Minister advise me of some of the general aspects of the training? What would be involved in that?

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

If I could ask Mr. Gerein to be more specific about that.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Mr. Gerein.

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Gerein

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I hope I heard the question of the honourable Member. Each of the school community counsellors who is currently working in a school community counsellor position has been recruited against the standard job description for a school community counsellor and would have to have met the requirements of the position, either with direct training or an equivalency of training and experience.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gerein. Member for Kitikmeot.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under culture and careers, "To establish and deliver a senior management training program for the GNWT, in cooperation with the Department of Personnel." I understand that you have at least one individual, if not more, who is already in this training mode to assume a senior management position with the government. Is there a training plan already in place? How is this individual currently being trained?

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

We do have a management development pilot program that is in place at the moment. There are ten affirmative action employees in the Fort Smith region who have chosen to take part in the training program. They will train over a one to three year period. Upon successful completion, they will be qualified to apply for

management positions within the Government of the Northwest Territories. I will ask Mr. Gerein to add to that answer.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Mr. Gerein.

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Gerein

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The reference is to the senior management training program which is being piloted in Fort Smith right now. We propose to offer it more broadly and all GNWT senior managers would have to take the senior management training course. Part of it would be orientation to our government, but part of it would also be to develop a core set of skills that each manager should have if they are going to operate in this government. It would also allow these individuals to develop some networks and collegiality with other managers in government, and hopefully start to lead to increased sufficiency and effectiveness in the operation of the government itself.

Referring back to the Member's question about an individual on management training, that may well be under the public service career training program where the person has an individualized training plan developed as a trainee and, after a period of time, the individual would occupy the position which has been guaranteed by the host department. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gerein. Mr. Pudlat.

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Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have two questions for the Minister of Education. I am sure there are quite a few problems in the education system in the NWT. If you are requesting a teacher in a community, has there ever been a problem in providing accommodation for a teacher who is needed in a community, but cannot go there because of a lack of housing? Is providing accommodation for new recruits a problem in the communities? Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The fact is we do run into that problem, but much of it as a result of reacting to needs. When we know there is a requirement between July and September or August, depending on when the school year starts, we are able to work that issue out. What becomes difficult is when we have to recruit a new teacher in January. The school year has started and we have to recruit a new teacher in the middle of the year because of the student population being more than what we had anticipated it would be. That is normally where we run into the most problems.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. Member for Baffin South.

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Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps this question shouldn't be asked in committee of the whole. In the 1994-95 school year, have there been any requests from other communities for grade extensions? Which communities have requested grade extensions in the year 1994-95? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. Minister Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, there have been requests for grade extensions and they have been approved for the following: grade ten, Deline, Norman Wells, Aklavik, Fort McPherson, Taloyoak; grade 11, Arctic Bay, Clyde River, Hall Beach; and, grade 12, Cambridge Bay and Coppermine. Those have been requested and they have received support for the extensions.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Member for Natilikmiot.

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to sum up my initial comments, starting with the definitive objectives of the department and also through Towards a Strategy to 2010, I am very impressed with the objectives of the Minister. It is strong of the Minister to try to meet all of the demands of the people, with the limited resources we have. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ballantyne mentioned earlier that if people would harmonize in this effort -- I think I can speak for community education councils, the regional divisional boards -- it would take very little effort to try to get some harmony from these groups. I think they would endorse the plan of the Minister. I would like to commend the Minister for his efforts, Mr. Chairman.

However, there is one main ingredient which is missing in this initiative which is primary. We don't have the financial resources to do this, but I can almost guarantee within the limited means that we have, the willingness of different levels of government is there. We have a very exciting future. If we work together, I think we can pull this off. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Minister.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

What can I say? The honourable Member has said it all in those words.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Mr. Ningark does have a way with words.

---Laughter

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Ningark.

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

I would like to move that we report progress.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

We have a motion to report progress, which is not debatable. All those in favour? It has been brought to my attention that we do not have a quorum. On behalf of those Members who are here, I would like to thank the Minister and his witnesses for their appearance before us. We look forward to seeing you again.

We have a motion on the floor to report progress. The motion is in order and it is not debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

I shall rise and report progress.

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Madam Speaker

I'll call the House back to order. Item 19, report of committee of the whole. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 1, Committee Report 2-12(5) and Tabled Document 3-12(5), and would like to report progress, and that Tabled Document 3-12(5) is concluded. Madam Speaker, I move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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Madam Speaker

Thank you. Is there a seconder for the motion? The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng. The motion is in order.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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An Hon. Member

Question.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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Madam Speaker

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 20, third reading of bills. Item 21, Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Item 21: Orders Of The Day
Item 21: Orders Of The Day

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Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Madam Speaker, there will be a meeting tomorrow morning, Saturday, at 9:00 am of the Standing Committee on Legislation. Monday at 10:30 am of the Ordinary Members' Caucus and the Management and Services Board at 12:00 noon. Orders of the day for Monday, February 28, 1994.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Oral Questions

6. Written Questions

7. Returns to Written Questions

8. Replies to Opening Address

9. Petitions

10. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

11. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

12. Tabling of Documents

13. Notices of Motion

14. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills Page 398

15. Motions

16. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 13, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1993-94

17. Second Reading of Bills

18. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95

- Committee Report 2-12(5), Review of the 1994-95 Main

Estimates

- Minister's Statement 5-12(5), Session Business

- Tabled Document 1-12(5), Towards an NWT Mineral

Strategy

- Tabled Document 2-12(5), Building and Learning

Strategy

- Tabled Document 11-12(5), First Annual Report of the

Languages Commissioner of the NWT for the Year

1992-93

19. Report of Committee of the Whole

20. Third Reading of Bills

21. Orders of the Day

Item 21: Orders Of The Day
Item 21: Orders Of The Day

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Madam Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Monday, February 28 at 1:30 pm.

---ADJOURNMENT