Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wish to ask Mrs. Balanoff to leave and replace her with Mr. Paul Devitt, the finance administrator for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Thank you.

Thank you. For this presentation, on my left again is Mr. Hal Gerein, the deputy minister. On my right is Mr. Paul Devitt who is in charge of finances.

Thank you, honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake. Minister Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One might say it's ambitious but I think it's necessary. The comments that have been received in this whole process indicate that there is a need for a new Education Act. The new Education Act should be responsive to this strategy in terms of the direction we receive so we can implement the strategy. There are also changes that are of immediate concern that have to be included in the new legislation. From the timetable perspective, in our view, it was best to do both at the same time. In other words, deal with the strategy and the Education Act so that the legislative proposal would be reflective of any new initiatives or any new changes that were necessary to ensure we're carrying out both aspects. In that sense, we are preparing to respond. If there are any obvious changes, we would have to come back and account for those changes but I think it is necessary to proceed with the legislative change.

In the discussion you may not have heard me, but I indicated that the next phase, where we have the actual draft strategy itself, is June 1994. We would then come out with detailed documentation. I should inform the Member as well that we've already had one round of discussions on amendments to the Education Act. We've revamped some of the proposals to respond to the circumstances today. In other words, the documentation that I received when I became a Minister was about a year old, I believe. At that time, there were discussions that took place.

What I've done is brought the issue back to the table again and we are now bringing forward a revamped discussion paper that has already had input from the divisional boards on the changes. We are going to send that out as part of the discussion documentation and the strategy development. Those two documents are going to be placed side by side, and they are reflective of the changes that have already been suggested by the general public. In that case, I believe we have over 50 submissions to amend the Education Act.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member will recall that we had a discussion and he advised me about some concerns he had before session began. I indicated to him at that time that I was considering the idea of proposing a meeting with the district board. I did hold that meeting at their offices along with staff members. We submitted to them a memorandum of understanding for the transfer. They indicated they wanted an opportunity to review the document and they would advise us of some of the changes they would consider. We've since had discussions with them and they've submitted proposals for changes and additions to the MOU. We're almost at a point where both sides are happy and we're pretty close now to signing an MOU of the process of transferring that particular institution.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member is correct, with the exception that I did indicate that we had more research work as a result of the symposium that occurred. As a result of the need for us to change some very significant aspects of the existing child care policy, we are proposing in the future that it be titled differently, titled as early child care and development policy. As a result of that, there are additional principles that need to be adopted by Cabinet. And, there is another component where we're considering restructuring the way in which we provide financial assistance to child centre. Those two elements are going to be going forward to Cabinet for their approval within the next several weeks. It will guide us in terms of new ideas for the policy.

There are things we want to consider as part of the new policy, early childhood health and development, equality of access, and a range of services including parenting workshops, community and cultural-based early childhood care and development programs as well as the whole matter of training early childhood and care development staff. The honourable Member will recall his presentation on this matter and the recommendations of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services. There was concern in the general public that we didn't have enough trained staff for that responsibility.

There are other issues that we're also looking at. Options such as preschool programs, day care centres, family day homes, toy-lending libraries, resource centres, child development centres and parenting workshops. So, as you can see, we're looking at a child care program that is far more expansive than the existing one and, as a result of that, we need research to complete the elements of that particular policy. I understand the concern that the honourable Member has raised, but he can appreciate the reasons why it is taking us a bit more time. The other element is -- and I pointed this out earlier this session -- when the symposium was planned, it was planned almost two months earlier than when it was actually carried out. The reason we conducted the symposium in September rather than July was on the advice of the child care centres. They didn't feel they were going to be a part of the symposium because some of them were not available. We responded positively and cancelled the symposium for two months. So, we are sort of two months behind now, not because we're not prepared to listen. That was the whole purpose. You can appreciate the reasons why some of the things are moving a little slower.

I guess I can't answer definitively because some of these elements are going to be phased in. In other words, some aspects are going to be done immediately and some are going to be done over the next year and a half. We are considering implementation of revisions for income security in conjunction with the federal process.

One of the interesting aspects of discussions that have taken place over the last several months is that the federal government has made the decision to reform their social security programs nationally. We are also part of that initiative. Their goal is to have the changes complete within the next two years. We are working with them to make changes to national programs but also in the interim we are negotiating agreements that will put in place some of the initiatives we're undertaking immediately.

We are also considering negotiating other arrangements to respond to some of the pilot initiatives they have also proposed. So, there are some changes that will occur immediately and some will take some time. The other element is that there are draft legislative changes that could be

proposed over the next two months or so that will help us put in place these initiatives.

Mr. Chairman, I wanted to focus now on the area of special needs. A few years ago, the government and the department decided to adopt the philosophy of mainstreaming and caused certain things to happen. I think everybody agrees with the principles of mainstreaming, bringing kids with learning disabilities together with kids who don't have any. They learn a lot about interacting and a lot about compassion and helping each other. I think in a lot of cases, it's valid.

But, as the Minister knows, there are a number of problems that have been created by the philosophy of mainstreaming. Some examples are the numbers of kids who are victims of fetal alcohol syndrome who are coming into the school system now and the number of kids who are victims of family violence and sexual abuse. The subsequent psychological problems they have are coming into schools. What is happening now is the teacher who is attempting to teach a normal workload to a class is finding that more and more of their attention has to be focused on special needs kids.

The original idea was that there would be enough resources to provide assistance to teachers in the way of special needs teachers who would be in the classroom. Two things have happened. One is the number of special needs students is increasing. At least it is here in the schools I'm familiar with. I don't have any statistics, but I would be interested in statistics across the territories. And, the resources allocated in the formula for special needs have not kept pace with the demands.

What happens then is that my original premise of having a system based on excellence and doing the best you can for students starts to fall down. The teacher spends more time with special needs kids which means less time for the rest of the kids in the class. Then, if there aren't people adequately trained for special needs kids, those kids aren't getting the specialized treatment they need. So, rather than it being a positive experience for everyone, it becomes a negative experience for everyone. I know there is a study being undertaken by the department now. The Minister said he would give the Standing Committee on Finance results of that study. Part of the solution is money. But like everything else, we are not going to have enough money to solve all of the problems. The other part of it is more flexible policies by the department. The areas of special needs, like most areas in education, there are no definitive rights and wrongs. There are shades of theories about the best way to deal with certain issues. The reality is different kids with special needs differ from one community to another. Some teachers are better able to cope than others. Some administrations are better able to deal with this than others. It is really impossible to come up with one rigid policy that fits all cases. We obviously need some more resources. The Finance Minister will be doing his job because there are so many other areas in the government that need resources. Yet, it comes down to a matter of priorities.

Another area is we have to allow a lot more flexibility in how we deal with special needs. For instance, I think there is a place in schools for some pull-out programs. I am not saying you want to take special needs kids away from the other kids all the time. But in some cases in some schools, that should be an option. It is an option that can work.

In larger centres, there is a need for specialized schools. The learning centre in Yellowknife is an example.

For other kids, their emotional difficulties are so great they probably should be pulled out of the system and given the professional assistance that they need. It is really unfair to expect a teacher to try to deal with severe emotional behaviour. There are cases in Yellowknife of kids who have severe emotional behaviour. Over the years, I have had kids in four schools, in both the Catholic and public system, and there has been a noticeable increase in the number of special needs kids. There has been a noticeable impact on the level of education.

I think this is key. Everything else in the education strategy will start to fall apart if you don't deal with this one. This one will weaken the overall system. I, for one, think there has to be a compassionate way of doing this. I am not saying you put all special needs kids into a ghetto. I really think there have to be a lot more innovative and flexible approaches to dealing with special needs kids everywhere in the territories. I would just ask for the Minister's comments and observations on this particular area.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Personally, I don't like the use of the word "mainstreaming" because I think it gives the connotation that somehow we want everyone to be equal and be the same. The circumstances don't always allow us to do that. We are not trying to create a policy that is inflexible. The fact is we are trying to include those who have special circumstances to be part of our general school system. There is a real need for us to develop specific strategies. Specific strategies doesn't mean that we have to be hard line one way or the other in terms of the delivery of programs to the students who need our support.

One problem for me that raises a very significant concern at times is the unwillingness of some of the educational leaders to appreciate the importance of trying to develop the appropriate strategy to deal with special needs children in their educational area.

The other thing is there is a kind of view held by some of the leaders that somehow these special needs students are so different and unmanageable that they should not have any responsibility for providing them with educational programs and services. That position is the opposite to what many parents and educational leaders have and that is there is an opportunity to do both. There is an opportunity to bring students with special needs into the general school population, while, at the same time, offering to those who need the additional support, specific and specialized educational programs to deal with their problems. I do agree in some ways that we shouldn't be so inflexible as a department. But the fact is if one reads the policies in place, there is flexibility allowed. What is very difficult for me is to get to a point where I can convince some of the educational leaders to be more open and innovative about the educational programming in order for us to meet the special needs of students.

The other element that has to be considered is when you do have schools specific, it is an additional cost. We cannot ignore the fact that there are additional costs to that. At the same time, I can appreciate the concern the honourable Member has raised. The one option that is always considered is schools within schools. In other words, identifying specific classrooms in existing educational facilities and delivering programs to those students in that environment, so they are not considered to be so different from other children that they feel unwanted and in a situation where they totally isolate themselves because they are seen as being different. In that context, we don't differ very significantly in how we try to address the issue. It is just that from experience in the system, I have seen how some of our leaders are dealing with this issue and it is not very proactive, as suggested by yourself earlier. We should become proactive and try to be innovative about the solutions we have.

I have spoken to Mr. Ballantyne, Mr. Chairman, on a number of occasions and he has given me some positive ideas as to how we might address this. It just seems sometimes we are banging our heads against the wall to try to bring others along with a view to address positively the needs of these children. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

(Microphone turned off)...I want to make it clear that it isn't just a criticism I am making of the department. I agree with the Minister. So much of the policy direction in schools has been given over to divisional boards and boards here in Yellowknife and they also bear responsibility for coming up with innovative solutions and recognizing that there is a reality. In the future, there isn't going to be as much money as we all want to do these things. That is a reality that has to sink in. I am using this forum to talk to more than just the Department of Education. It is something that everyone, the partners I talked about before with the parents being a very important part, has to recognize and recognizing there has to be flexibility and moderation in dealing with these things. There are no hard answers one way or the other. I mean I think we have to be compassionate

towards kids who have special circumstances, as the Minister says. I also don't like the word mainstreaming, but it wasn't one that I originated.

On the other hand, there is the responsibility we have to all the other kids, too, to find those balances. It goes back to what I was saying earlier about the leadership that it is going to take by the Minister and by the department to try to bring these people together, heading in the same direction collectively, so it doesn't become an issue, which it is now. People can say the territorial government won't give us money, therefore we're not going to deal with it until they give us money. Then we have checkmate, nothing works and everybody loses. There's a lot of that going on and it's because it doesn't pass the test about what's good for the kids. Unfortunately, a lot of the relationships that have developed between partners don't pass that test.

I just encourage the Minister to keep pursuing this. I'll continue to pursue it with our boards here and I hope other MLAs will do that because it's a very important issue and an issue that, whether people like it or not, has significant impact on the success of our education system. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just more specifically on the whole matter in Yellowknife. I've met with the parents of students in the learning centre here to hear their concerns and suggestions. I've also advised the boards about my concern with the unwillingness to resolve some of the internal problems. It's the same issue that comes up with other boards across the Northwest Territories.

But, we have some very good experiences as well. I'm thinking of the Keewatin which is spending additional resources for special needs out of their surpluses. There is also the extraordinary commitments by the Baffin, the work in the Hay River school with the concept of pod learning. That is the kind of stuff that we have had good experiences with in the north and we should utilize the experience and move forward from that experience to new situations to positively address educational needs for all our children.

You pointed out that there are a number of things that we have to deal with. One, how do we address the issue of magnet communities, where we have facilities such as group homes? How do we deal with the question of counselling resources. That is another point the honourable Member raised. There is also the idea of early intervention which we think is important. It is not only important in terms of the existing problems we have, and I won't necessarily say they are problems, but situations that exist. There is also the need for us to improve staff development. Some of these situations could be dealt with better if we had the advice and knowledge that these educators need to deal with these situations. We need to facilitate educational programming. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I appreciate that. I guess the lesson for all of us is that there is no one single solution. There has to be a range of solutions and there have to be people prepared to be flexible and reasonable. I think everything is manageable if you look at it that way. I still would ask the Minister to look at the special case of the centre in Yellowknife. Having met with the parents, the Minister will recognize the frustration and despair that parents have when they have kids with learning disabilities who aren't making it in the system.

When they find a lifeline and for the first time start to see some positive results, that's more important than a dry discussion about policy. We're talking about their kids and hopeless situations. Now there are some results. When we are talking about flexibility, I also think that there are going to be some

cases where compassion and common sense will dictate that something may not fit exactly in a policy but it makes sense.

I would just ask the Minister to be sympathetic towards that particular school. They have quite an extraordinary teacher. Beulah Phillpot has been working with these kids for a long time and they are really, really getting somewhere. They are making progress with these kids. What I would like to see the government doing and the Department of Education doing is when they see success, build on it. As opposed to saying well, your success doesn't fit in with our policies and therefore, we will ensure that ultimately, you'll fail. That doesn't make sense. If they are out there, let's embrace them. Let's change our policies and be proactive in that area.

The last thing I would like to talk about is the recommendation of the Standing Committee on Finance and the partners for youth model. As the Minister knows, and all of us who have been working in government for a few years now, dealing with social problems is probably the most difficult task any of us have and it doesn't lend itself readily to solutions. It is very frustrating and very difficult. If anything, the situation is getting worse rather than better. If you look at this from a school perspective, social problems that have accumulated obviously come into the school. Whatever they are, they manifest themselves in different ways in the school whether it's aggressive behaviour in the playground, or kids aren't able to learn because they didn't have breakfast that morning, the whole range, kids who have been abused. I think it's very important to try to deal with it.

In a lot of communities, the school is the one common place where everybody in that generation for a certain period of time is there. So you can capture a total audience or a target group. Anywhere else you do it in the community you get bits and pieces of it. If you decide that early intervention is important...I think it really is, I think it's key. What the corrections department does, for instance, at the other end costs five times as much to keep them in jail than it does to do something when people are young and much more likely to have success. The studies have shown that if you deal with it in the school it has a tremendous positive impact on the community itself, it spills out. I see the school of the future in the north becoming more of a centre point in a community, more of a focal point that we've seen before as we get more into communications, into modern technology, in to a whole range of options available in the 1990s .

As long as I remember, we've always talked about, and every report that has ever come out that has dealt with social problems always talked about departments having to work together. We've heard that and everybody agrees.

The problem with the way governments are structured in Canada, departmental structures, is that it is functionally impossible to do that, with all the best intentions. It becomes difficult to do because there are vertical hierarchies and the cross linkages aren't there. It's not anyone's fault. I know your deputy Minister works very hard at those relationships. But it is difficult to formalize those relationships on an ongoing basis. A lot of time, it depends on certain individuals who are enlightened enough to see it only works if you work together.

One reason is that from the top down, the concept of harmonization between departments hasn't worked because, structurally, it's difficult. One thing they've found with school-based social delivery programs -- and I talked to people in San Diego where they are using it -- in the inner cities now, in some of the larger cities in the States, where they have much worse social problems than us. They have terrible social problems, a total breakdown, really, of social order in some of the ghettos of the United States -- is that by bringing together in the school, a social worker, nurse, parole officer and the police, the school becomes their point of contact. It's not their departments, but real people actually working together there in the trenches. It is much more difficult far away, like in Yellowknife or in the regional centre.

They found that just having these resources available in the school -- and there is a pilot project in Edmonton, also -- that the costs aren't that much larger. You just refocus where your resources are used and you're able to do a number of things. Things like violence in the schools go down considerably because there are people right there. Second, you're able to identify problem kids very early and you're able to intervene very early with those kids, with a much better chance of providing assistance to them. Third, the positive things in the school start to spread to the community around it. It has really worked.

Like I said, there's no magic in anything. And there is no magic in this solution like any other solution, but the committee feels very strongly that this model is worth a very serious try. We would really like to see this set up in every region by the next school year. Obviously, in some areas, you are not going to have a group of 15 people, as they have in Edmonton. In some regions, it might make sense to have three or four people. Practical reality and common sense will make this thing work. I would just like to hear the Minister's initial response to this type of approach.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the matter of the learning centre here in Yellowknife, I want to indicate to the honourable Member and all Members of Yellowknife that I have instructed my staff and they are carrying out a meeting with both district boards here to resolve this matter, to come to a solution to how we deal with the learning centre and the delivery of programming for those students. A

meeting will be held on that specific issue. We are trying to be proactive in trying to bring about a resolution in that matter.

With regard to the suggestion that had been made by the standing committee, the partners for youth initiative, as the honourable Member pointed out, it is an inter-agency cooperative effort being implemented in Alberta. It is interesting to note that we don't pay much attention to our own, but a similar model has been implemented in Arviat. That's one of the reasons for the success of the high school programming in that community.

There are a number of community agencies that are working together right now, including the business community, that have been involved in programming in the schools. I agree with the advice that has been given and I want to indicate to Members here that we recently signed an interdepartmental agreement with Health, Social Services and Education for coordinating the planning and delivery of social policy area programs and services. What we need to do now with this agreement is to agree on specific protocols between the respective departments that clearly outline areas of responsibility and the process by which cooperation is to occur at the community, regional and departmental levels. We need to do that.

We have now a tri-ministerial committee of deputy ministers who are currently identifying critical needs for interdepartmental and inter agency cooperation. Over the next few months, we will be drafting an implementation plan for cooperative and coordinated action and delivery of services in the social policy area. That includes the whole matter of how we address cooperative action in responding to student needs in our schools. That is one element of that.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just need a clarification on the third line of definitive objectives on page 18-9. I thought the department stated last year that mobilization of career centres to NWT communities were already being implemented. I need clarification on that.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The career centres were established a year ago. Now what we're trying to do is to make sure those regional career centres deliver services to the communities. That's generally what we're trying to accomplish with the mobilization efforts. In other words, tying in the communities to the regional centres.

When do you expect this to be implemented? The objective says "develop and implement" a plan. When do you expect this to be implemented?

We need to first of all plan how the regional centres are going to provide the best services to our communities. That's what we have to do. Things like inter-community communication and how we set up programs in our communities, that work still has to be done. That's what we're working on in this upcoming year.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have a few questions or points of clarification on the definitive objectives. Under directorate and administration, the second from the last objective is to develop a directive on hiring teachers. I'm just curious, is there not a policy in place? Is this an amendment to an existing policy? If that's the case, are there problems currently in the recruiting policy for teachers? Thank you.

Could I ask Mr. Gerein to respond to that specific question, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is to develop a comprehensive guideline for all the boards to use in their hiring, documentation and evaluation processes with respect to teachers. Currently it is quite fragmented because it has been handed over in pieces and also isn't comprehensive. Thank you.

So would you say there are problems in the recruitment process because of the fact that it is fragmented and not standardized? Thank you.

We have found some problems where there has been inadequate documentation, a lack of collaboration or advance notice between the board and the Department of Personnel. It has sometimes put us in a jam with respect to actually doing teacher recruitment in appropriate time frames. Thank you.

My second question is under educational development, on page 18-8, it says, "To complete the implementation of the new senior secondary science curriculum for the grade 12 level." Is that throughout the NWT where there is grade 12 or plans to create grade 12 programming?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Alberta changed their science curriculum a year ago. We began the introduction of that new science program this year. This upcoming year, we will complete the implementation of all components of that new curriculum.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Are there going to be additional resources required because of this new curriculum? If so, have those resources been identified yet?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There will be some minor resource requirements and they are included in the allocation in this budget.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My next question is relating to the school community counsellors and the training of the 14 additional school community counsellors. Are there no standards currently in place for training of these school community counsellors?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could I ask the honourable Member to clarify the matter of the standards? Generally speaking, the training of the counsellors is similar no matter which jurisdiction or what region you are from. In other words, it is the same curriculum. So perhaps he could explain that to me.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is a training program in existence for school community counsellors. What type of training would encompass this training program for these counsellors? I am not aware of it in my region.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand now and I have spoken to my deputy minister. If the honourable Member will recall, some years ago we began the student counselling program. We started it, we stopped it, we started it and we stopped it. Now we are starting it again. We realize there is a need for student community counsellors in our schools. This is the beginning of our retraining program again. We are bringing in some new trainees and counsellors to train. Over the next three years, it is our intention to train an additional 30 new school counsellors for our schools.

So it is from the existing pool of community counsellors? Or, are those additional positions?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. These are additional ones. It is our intention to try to have at least one school counsellor in every school in the Northwest Territories.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Of the incumbent school community counsellors, are they all currently trained?

I am not sure about that matter. I would have to go back and check to review the training of every counsellor. Generally speaking, most of the ones we have recruited have gone through our training program.

Could the Minister advise me of some of the general aspects of the training? What would be involved in that?

If I could ask Mr. Gerein to be more specific about that.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I hope I heard the question of the honourable Member. Each of the school community counsellors who is currently working in a school community counsellor position has been recruited against the standard job description for a school community counsellor and would have to have met the requirements of the position, either with direct training or an equivalency of training and experience.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under culture and careers, "To establish and deliver a senior management training program for the GNWT, in cooperation with the Department of Personnel." I understand that you have at least one individual, if not more, who is already in this training mode to assume a senior management position with the government. Is there a training plan already in place? How is this individual currently being trained?

We do have a management development pilot program that is in place at the moment. There are ten affirmative action employees in the Fort Smith region who have chosen to take part in the training program. They will train over a one to three year period. Upon successful completion, they will be qualified to apply for

management positions within the Government of the Northwest Territories. I will ask Mr. Gerein to add to that answer.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The reference is to the senior management training program which is being piloted in Fort Smith right now. We propose to offer it more broadly and all GNWT senior managers would have to take the senior management training course. Part of it would be orientation to our government, but part of it would also be to develop a core set of skills that each manager should have if they are going to operate in this government. It would also allow these individuals to develop some networks and collegiality with other managers in government, and hopefully start to lead to increased sufficiency and effectiveness in the operation of the government itself.

Referring back to the Member's question about an individual on management training, that may well be under the public service career training program where the person has an individualized training plan developed as a trainee and, after a period of time, the individual would occupy the position which has been guaranteed by the host department. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have two questions for the Minister of Education. I am sure there are quite a few problems in the education system in the NWT. If you are requesting a teacher in a community, has there ever been a problem in providing accommodation for a teacher who is needed in a community, but cannot go there because of a lack of housing? Is providing accommodation for new recruits a problem in the communities? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The fact is we do run into that problem, but much of it as a result of reacting to needs. When we know there is a requirement between July and September or August, depending on when the school year starts, we are able to work that issue out. What becomes difficult is when we have to recruit a new teacher in January. The school year has started and we have to recruit a new teacher in the middle of the year because of the student population being more than what we had anticipated it would be. That is normally where we run into the most problems.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps this question shouldn't be asked in committee of the whole. In the 1994-95 school year, have there been any requests from other communities for grade extensions? Which communities have requested grade extensions in the year 1994-95? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, there have been requests for grade extensions and they have been approved for the following: grade ten, Deline, Norman Wells, Aklavik, Fort McPherson, Taloyoak; grade 11, Arctic Bay, Clyde River, Hall Beach; and, grade 12, Cambridge Bay and Coppermine. Those have been requested and they have received support for the extensions.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to sum up my initial comments, starting with the definitive objectives of the department and also through Towards a Strategy to 2010, I am very impressed with the objectives of the Minister. It is strong of the Minister to try to meet all of the demands of the people, with the limited resources we have. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ballantyne mentioned earlier that if people would harmonize in this effort -- I think I can speak for community education councils, the regional divisional boards -- it would take very little effort to try to get some harmony from these groups. I think they would endorse the plan of the Minister. I would like to commend the Minister for his efforts, Mr. Chairman.

However, there is one main ingredient which is missing in this initiative which is primary. We don't have the financial resources to do this, but I can almost guarantee within the limited means that we have, the willingness of different levels of government is there. We have a very exciting future. If we work together, I think we can pull this off. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

What can I say? The honourable Member has said it all in those words.

I would like to move that we report progress.

I'll call the House back to order. Item 19, report of committee of the whole. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.