I have nothing to add, Mr. Chairman, unless he wants specifically when and where we are going to hold them. We have that information available as well.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess I should be specific. I don't know where you will find this definitive objective, or if it is even in the O & M, to make plans to make the access road built in Repulse Bay, because you have definitive objectives on the third last line, "to implement a management strategy for the Ingraham Trail area". I understand that is under DPW. Some of it is Transportation. Some of it is MACA. Are you initiating a similar type of development for a small community like Repulse Bay so that blasting of rocks will be stopped and affordable long-term gravel access can be made? I don't know how to be more specific.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that we have some misunderstanding. I hope that I will be able to clarify this. This particular objective is to indicate that the community is able to create a plan. This section of the department would be assisting the communities in creating their plan, but it is a community plan, not the department's plan. When the community has completed their plan, it is then up to the community to find the resources to be able to carry out that plan. Where they would be able to find the financial resources to carry out this plan would vary according to what segment of the community it would relate to. Again, the deputy minister is pointing out to me that could be assisted through the capital planning of the department.

As far as access roads are concerned, if this is planning which the community has identified, I believe the financial resources for this particular access road would be coming from the Department of Transportation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Another question I had for MACA was when I was making general comments. There is a feeling in the community, especially the council, that they have been given more responsibility for policy and planning. It takes much of the council's and staff's time to deal with the community transfer initiative, the Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, and other agencies and bodies that must deal with the hamlets, Department of Economic Development, construction, capital planning, five year capital planning, et cetera. But, these are not funded, other than by the present formula financing that MACA has with the hamlets. A letter was recently written to the Minister from the Hamlet of Coral Harbour, dated February 11. Are there any plans to review the formula financing to allow the councils to devote time and funds to meet those policy planning developments for their communities?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The funding formula created by the department is to help communities in the basic administration of their particular community. I believe the funding formula used by the department is used to distribute the funds that are available on an equitable basis. Each community then receives funds they are able to use for their basic administrative and other basic needs. If there are specialized areas that the communities want to get involved in, such as Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, or the community transfer initiative where they may want to take on Economic Development and Tourism, Social Services or any other department, I think the agreement they work on would have to include the financial resources required to administer that particular segment, because the funding formula used by the department is used to distribute funds for basic administrative needs only. If additional funds are required, then when discussions are taking place with the organization, those resources would have to be negotiated with that particular group. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to say that I'm pleased that the department has been able to give some additional funding to the municipalities, including the tax-based municipalities, and has perhaps done so by restraining its own PY growth. I think these additional transfer payments are timely and will make it just a little bit easier for our municipal governments to survive.

Mr. Chairman, the one matter I would like to seek some response from the Minister on has to do with the subject of the recommendation by SCOF passed in this committee earlier today. That has to do with the clear guidelines for the dissolution of a council and its reinstatement. I understand that the department is open to this recommendation and perhaps feels that after the difficulties associated with the dissolution of

the council in Iqaluit it might be better for all concerned if a process is laid out.

My question is as follows, Mr. Chairman. While we're waiting for these guidelines to be developed and perhaps reflected in legislative amendments -- which I certainly appreciate takes some time -- in the meantime the Minister is going to have to deal with a real live situation in the second-largest municipality in the territories right now. The situation is that there is a growing degree of concern in my constituency about getting an elected council back. It comes not just from the members of the municipal advisory council who really are doing their best, I think. But they are feeling some reluctance about being there too much longer simply because they know they're not elected and they're vulnerable to being criticized because they're not elected. I think they'll be leading the charge by saying that there should be an election.

Then there are the ordinary citizens of the community who I think are generally very interested in the goings-on of the municipality. This may be one good aspect of this affair, that it's provoked a higher degree of interest on the part of the community in municipal affairs. But they're now anxious, I think, to really have a voice. My reading of the situation, Mr. Chairman, is that the high degree of interest that is evident in the community could translate into a very healthy effect. Namely, that there will be numerous candidates and there will be good candidates running for mayor and council when an election is held.

I guess what I'm respectfully suggesting to the Minister is that some time has passed since the decision was taken to dissolve the council. An experienced, able, senior, now retired, MACA employee has been there now for going on four months doing, what I'm told, is good work with the appointed municipal advisory council. The question now arising is what is the government now looking for to give the nod to restoring democracy in Iqaluit? I guess I would like to ask the Minister -- in a general way, because there are no guidelines in place now even though they will be developed I'm sure and I'm glad to see that -- what is required before an election can be held? What is standing in the way of an election being held in Iqaluit? In other words, what steps is the Minister going to expect of the administration of the community before we can get the town back on a normal footing with an elected council? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I can understand the concern that the Member raises with regard to Iqaluit. I tend to think of it as though it was one of the communities that I represent, whereby I would be just as anxious as the Member appears to be in his expressions this afternoon. I think one of the concerns I would have is when the restoration of an elected body in the community is brought in, that the new council would be assured what they are taking on is something that is not only financially sound, but is administratively sound, as well. What I am waiting for is a recommendation from the municipal administrator, upon the advice of the advisory committee, to indicate to me that the municipality is now ready for an election. Even then, I think an evaluation would have to take place once a recommendation

has been received from the municipal administrator. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is helpful advice. One thing I would like to mention is that the Minister referred to the need for sound administration as a desirable factor before a new council is elected. Having met recently with the municipal advisory committee, I think there is a desire there because there is a good deal of lead time required to advertise, interview, short list, et cetera, potential candidates for the senior administrative officer job. I think there is quite an openness to continuing to work with Mr. Beaumont even after an election in order to ensure there is a good continuity and a transition period that is carefully planned. I would like to inform the Minister that, one of the ways a sound administration could be assured would be if Mr. Beaumont could still be made available to the community even after an election might be called. I think that is something the Minister can do, which is to allow him to continue working through an election and with a newly elected council, and then to oversee, with his experience and his knowledge of the problems, the hiring of a replacement for himself.

The other thing I would like to mention is that I believe the Minister will, in relatively short order, get a formal recommendation from the municipal advisory committee on the timing of an election. I think it will be in the direction of an early election.

Mr. Chairman, about the Minister's comments for a need for an operational evaluation, I can accept this, but I would like to note that there has been a great deal of evaluating undergone in Iqaluit in the last 12 or 18 months. I have seen a very detailed report done by the department which raised questions and flagged some of the problems that led to the council's dissolution. I would venture to say that Mr. Beaumont, since he has been working as the municipal administrator, has probably, in effect, been doing an ongoing operational evaluation of the municipality just as part of his job. I have no problems with an operational review, but I hope that, in light of all the work that has been done to date and the fact that the Minister's appointee has been there now for three or four months, leaving no stone unturned, does this operational evaluation need to be an elaborate, time consuming process, or can it build on the work that I suspect has already been done? Is that a major time consumer, that kind of an evaluation, or could it be done quickly if it is determined that an early election is desirable? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't know whether the municipal administrator, as an independent person, would be willing or able to stay on after council has been elected, which is one of the areas that the Member has raised. However, I believe there is a recommendation that an SAO could be hired on by the advisory committee and the municipal administrator, and would be able to work with the municipal administrator until an election is held. When the election is held, whether the new council would be willing to work with the new SAO would be something that the new council would have to decide.

As far as the municipal administrator, no. He is an independent contractor. Being an independent contractor, if he is willing to work with the new elected council, that would be for Mr. Beaumont to decide. I am told that an evaluation of an operation such as Iqaluit run by an administrator would likely take about a week for an operational review to take place. Again, I would like to state that I would like to be sure that, when an election is held, the new council is taking on an operation which is on the advice of the municipal administrator, and the evaluation is in a sound position for a new council to take over. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess we would like to have all of our municipalities in that kind of a sound position, but I understand what the Minister is saying. I hope that Iqaluit can soon meet that test. In fact, I am confident that it will.

Mr. Chairman, I would just like to make one closing comment on this issue, which I think is appropriate for general comments. To me, the success of this department, in many ways, is measured by the success of the municipalities. Where they are doing well, it reflects well on the department. Where there are hiccoughs, then it suggests that work and support is required, although not all of these problems can be laid at the feet of the department, I know. I would just like to say since we're talking about the process of resurrecting a dissolved council that, to me, it's silly to say that an appointed committee and an appointed administrator should hire a senior administrative officer who then will have to get along with an elected council.

To me, that's a high risk situation. I know it's been discussed by the municipal advisory committee because there's been some talk on Mr. Beaumont's part, I understand, on starting the moves to recruit a senior administrative officer. I've got to say that I believe the chemistry has got to be right between the duly elected council and that senior administrative officer. What I would like to recommend is before an SAO is hired, hold an election so that senior administrative officer can be hired by the council that person is going to have to work with, not by an advisory committee or an appointed administrator who might well not be there for the long-term. That would be my advice to the department.

As far as the question about whether Mr. Beaumont would be willing to remain on, I understand that the Cabinet order originally contemplated a term for him to the end of the 1994 year and that term might now have been shortened on the expectation that an election might occur before the end of the calendar year. I would suggest that even though, obviously, the independent contractor's opinion is important, if he is instructed by the Minister that completing the work requires staying on through the election and assisting with the hiring of a new SAO before going back to retirement, or whatever else he would like to do, I'm sure the Minister's good offices could be used to encourage that transition to take place. I would like to suggest that, with the support of the department and the Minister, that scenario might well be worked out to everyone's satisfaction.

Those are just some comments, Mr. Chairman. I suspect that there will be other opportunities to pursue this matter in the Legislature once I get a formal resolution from the municipal advisory committee. But, I do appreciate the comments and the information I received today. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the most part, I would have to agree with what the Member is saying. The formation of a process by which all municipalities would be able to understand and follow things that should be done is needed. I think that process will be ongoing, especially with the Association of Municipalities. I think the suggestion made by the Member earlier in his general comments was also very good, and that when an administrator is put into a community, a dissolution process should also be clarified. Right now we don't have that. At this point, I've been holding off and saying I would like to take a good look at what options are available before we carry on. I think advice from Members like Mr. Patterson is valuable because he is experiencing a unique situation in the territories.

However, I would also like to remind the Member that Mr. Beaumont is in Iqaluit as a municipal administrator and that once an elected body is put into place in Iqaluit, he is no longer a municipal administrator. He would be an independent person and it would be up to Mr. Beaumont, as Mr. Beaumont and not as a municipal administrator, to decide whether he wants to stay on in Iqaluit. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I had my hand up earlier, I think you have my name on the list there. Anyway, Mr. Chairman, I have a concern I would like to bring to the attention of the Minister. Unlike Mr. Patterson, my colleague from Iqaluit, I'm not going to try to influence the system on who should be hired or retained at the local level. There might be 20 other people who might be voting in the next election.

Anyway, my concern, Mr. Chairman, is a by-law enforcement officer position is a very, very important position in the community, especially when you are dealing with the community's corporation.

The person who is working as an enforcement officer for a community corporation should be trained. I have talked to the by-law officer in Pelly Bay on a number of occasions as well as with the officers in Gjoa Haven and Taloyoak. They are very interested in learning about their jobs in the community. There are times when a by-law officer is called to check into problems of people they are dealing with. I have, on several occasions, before the Honourable Silas Arngna'naaq became the Minister, approached some of the other Ministers on this issue. I hope that the government will give the financial resources and cultivate a plan to get training going within the system. I hope the Minister will keep that in mind. Thank you.