This is page numbers 45 - 54 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was services.

Members Present

Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Antoine, Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Hon. Jeannie Marie-Jewell, Hon. Rebecca Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Mr. Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Patterson, Mr. Pudlat, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 45

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Good afternoon. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Madam Premier.

Minister's Statement 5-12(5): Session Business
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 45

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Speaker. On Monday of next week, Finance Minister, John Pollard, will be presenting the O and M spending plan for the 1994-95 fiscal year. This will be the third of four budgets to be presented by the government during its term of office. It reflects a determination to return to a balanced budget, while maintaining existing services. We all recognize that this isn't an easy task. During the past three years, all of us have been involved in an extremely difficult financial and complex political situation.

There has been considerable change. There have been changes in the membership of this House, changes in Cabinet, how government is organized and how it is conducting its business, and changes that will lead to a post-division budget in less than three years, with the creation of two new territories by April of 1999.

Public expectations have also shifted. People are demanding increased financial and administrative accountability. They want governments at all levels to work together, to end waste and to spend their tax dollars wisely. And they want help in solving the many serious social problems afflicting and undermining the well-being of the Northwest Territories.

Strong families that are free of violence and properly sheltered, well-educated youth, employment opportunities and a greater degree of community control over programs and services are seen by northern residents as the keys to a better future. Madam Speaker, Cabinet, the Legislative Assembly and its standing and special committees have been making progress towards meeting these objectives.

But there is still much to do and not much time for this Assembly to finish the work it started after the election of 1991. As a result, the remainder of our term promises to be extremely significant. In a statement to this House at the start of session, I noted that Cabinet intends to concentrate its efforts on making sure what began in 1991 is either completed or nearing completion by 1995.

That includes living within our means. We have to make sure that the sizeable amount of money we spend on paying for the management and administration of government doesn't become an increasing burden on the resources required to help those most in need and to help create jobs in all sectors of our economy. It also includes, among other things, steps or initiatives dealing with family violence, the education system, stimulation of economic opportunities, reform of income support systems, custom adoptions and access to government information.

Madam Speaker, we have an obligation to the people who put us here. They put us here to work together to develop a consensus and to find constructive solutions to the problems that are bothering them. That is the challenge we face, despite the budget pressures we deal with on a regular basis and the financial situation that is crippling the federal and provincial governments.

Relatively speaking, our long-term economic outlook remains positive, particularly in the minerals sector, which we expect to be the stimulus for the development of transportation infrastructure, in partnership with Ottawa and the private sector. But that doesn't mean we can afford to forget about our multi-million dollar health billings dispute and the housing crisis resulting from Ottawa's elimination of cost-shared new social housing in the territories.

We intend to continue our pursuit of a fair and reasonable resolution to those outstanding issues and other financial irritants, particularly those that place us in a disadvantaged position compared to the type of equalization formulas that exists between the federal government and the have-not provinces. Ministers will be speaking to you in greater detail on these and other matters during this budget session.

Madam Speaker, many items that have occupied the government since coming into office, such as consolidation, the sale of staff housing, decentralization, community transfers, and privatization, are being implemented. Other matters that have been discussed are now coming forward to the Assembly for debate.

A number of initiatives, such as the new building and learning strategy, will be put into place during this summer's construction season. The building and learning strategy is designed to generate properly trained northern workers who will recapture, by the year 2000, the estimated $16 million per year in wages that are currently being paid to southern construction workers.

In addition, the government will be tabling a renewable resources development strategy during this session, which will identify economic opportunities in the renewable resource sector. A document dealing with development of a mineral strategy is already before the House. People must have a choice of working in traditional or industrial economies.

Work is also progressing on a health services strategy, and Arctic College is developing a strategic plan as part of the process of decentralization and in order to get ready for division. At the appropriate time, the Assembly will be asked to consider legislation creating two colleges, one in the east and the second in the west.

Earlier, I referred to the serious social problems confronting many individuals, families and communities in the Northwest Territories. These problems, in one way or another, are contributing to a breakdown in family values and lifestyles and lead to violence in the home or criminal activities in general. Madam Speaker, beating up on spouses, sexual abuse of adults and children, and alcohol and drug dependency can't be tolerated. We have to create a strategy that will help restore traditional values and a stronger sense of self-reliance.

With this in mind, we will begin a discussion on the matter tomorrow, with representatives from various interest groups. These problems must be resolved and everyone has to be involved in the solution. The discussion is a follow-up to a recommendation by the Special Committee on Health and Social Services calling for zero tolerance against family violence and a declaration on zero tolerance tabled by the Minister of Justice, Stephen Kakfwi, in December.

Other important documents that will be brought forward during this session include papers on income support and training, and legislation dealing with custom adoption and access to government information. As you know, a document outlining the government's response to the gender equality report has already been tabled and is ready for discussion. So is a discussion paper by the Department of Education that will be used to finalize a comprehensive strategy that will guide the development and delivery of education, culture and employment programs to the year 2010.

Madam Speaker, the area of income support is of particular importance. The systems that are in place need to be reformed in order to provide better overall coordination and to make sure the support systems no longer create barriers to work and training opportunities. The need to reform the income support regime in a manner that will combine all aspects of social assistance, income support, employment development and training has recently been approved, in principle, by Cabinet. It doesn't make any sense to pay able-bodied people to stay at home.

Part of the work in the area of income support reform is in response to recommendations from the Special Committee on Health and Social Services. We will table a comprehensive response to the committee's report before the end of the budget session. The government will also be introducing legislation dealing with access to information, custom adoptions and guardianship and trusteeship, during the current session.

The Access to Information and Privacy Act will provide a mechanism for the public to access all information held by the government, subject to limited and specific exceptions. It will also provide for the protection of privacy in respect to information relating to individuals.

The Aboriginal Custom Adoption Recognition Act sets out a simple procedure to obtain recognition of an aboriginal custom adoption that will have the effect of a court order. The Guardianship and Trusteeship Act, among other things, provides for the court appointment of a guardian to make decisions on behalf of an adult who is incapable of independently managing his or her personal care.

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, we now have about 20 months left in our mandate to finish what we started and to lay the groundwork on some new initiatives that will prove to be of considerable help to the next Assembly.

Madam Speaker, I am confident we will succeed. The desire for change is strong across the Northwest Territories, and that strength will help guide our deliberations and decision-making. Thank you.

---Applause

Minister's Statement 5-12(5): Session Business
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 46

The Speaker

Thank you, Madam Premier. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Madam Premier.

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, the Honourable John Pollard will be absent from the House today to attend the meeting of Health Ministers in Ottawa. The Honourable Richard Nerysoo will be absent from the House today and tomorrow to attend the Nunavut education meeting in Rankin Inlet. Thank you.

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Iqaluit.

Alcohol And Drug Workers' Salaries And Benefits
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 46

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, Members will recall our concerns about the adequacy of salaries and benefits for alcohol and drug workers in the Northwest Territories. Specifically, as I had recently informed the Minister of Social Services, there are serious problems being encountered by the board of directors of the Baffin regional treatment centre in recruiting suitable candidates to begin an eight week training program this month under the auspices of Bellwood Treatment Centre, in order to be trained in time for the opening of the centre in Iqaluit in April 1994.

I wrote the Minister on several occasions, with my concerns on this issue and included a resolution passed on January 14, 1994 at the Baffin leaders' summit, urging the Minister of Social Services to identify extra funds and housing, in order to be able to attract employees to staff the long-awaited treatment centre.

The chairman of the board of the Baffin regional treatment centre, Mr. Mangitak Kellypalik, also informed the Minister, in a letter dated January 16, that the lack of housing, adequate benefits and salaries had discouraged qualified people from applying, given the high cost of living in Iqaluit.

Madam Speaker -- and I am pleased to start the session off on a positive note -- I am pleased to report to the House that yesterday I was informed by the Honourable Rebecca Mike that significant steps have been taken towards addressing this issue. A retroactive salary increase of $2,500 to April 1, 1993, and the provisions of settlement allowance, which in the case of Iqaluit amounts to $4,484 per year, has now been approved for alcohol and drug treatment centre staff. This is progress on this issue, Madam Speaker.

Since I have not hesitated to be critical of the Minister and the department in the past, I want to be the first to acknowledge this and to thank the Minister and her staff for this action.

Having said that, Madam Speaker, I must still point out that the challenges for this Minister are not over by any means. There is still no housing available for the staff. That is the next issue which must be solved if the centre is to open on time. Also, the Minister must soon deal with the question of wages and benefits for alcohol and drug workers, in fact, wages and benefits for staff in women's shelters and senior citizens' homes. There are also urgent issues like food allowances for social assistance recipients and responses to the report of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services.

So, Madam Speaker, the honourable Minister still has many pressing and long-outstanding issues she must work hard to tackle. However, I think we should allow her to pause for a moment, only a moment, today and accept our acknowledgement of the steps she has taken on this issue. Qujannamiik. Thank you.

---Applause

Alcohol And Drug Workers' Salaries And Benefits
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 47

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Baffin South.

Apologies For Lack Of Travel To Constituency
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 47

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise today, Madam Speaker, recognizing the first meeting in this House in the year 1994. At our last session in 1993, I wanted to express my apologies for not being able to visit my constituency. I would also like to thank them for their patience. During the last sitting of the session I received a lot of help and support from those constituencies, and with the new year coming upon us, I wanted to acknowledge their support and remind them that I am still representing them in this House and I will do my best. I extend my apologies for not being able to visit their communities. I have intentions to visit them more frequently this year, Madam Speaker. I just wanted to express my apologies to my constituents. For this reason, I rise in the House today. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Apologies For Lack Of Travel To Constituency
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 47

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 8-12(5): Hay River Reserve - Model For Treaty Lands
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 47

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is in response to a question asked by Mr. Antoine, on December 13, 1993.

During question period on December 13, the Member for Nahendeh asked the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs if a tripartite administrative agreement, which is being developed between the Hay River Dene Band, the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and the Government of the Northwest Territories, will "be a model for all Indian Affairs lands and future lands set aside through treaties."

As the ministry for Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs is coordinating this government's participation in those discussions, I have undertaken to provide this reply, which Minister Todd took as notice.

First, the tripartite administrative agreement discussions with the Hay River Reserve are meant to put in place a process for negotiation of sub-agreements, which would provide the band with some certainty on the delivery of federal and territorial programs and services.

Second, the focus of these talks is on the delivery of federal and territorial programs on the Hay River Reserve, some of which could involve transactions and development of reserve lands and environmental management and protection of reserve lands.

Third, the talks were premised on the principle that all parties are participating without prejudice to their respective positions on comparative levels of service, legal jurisdiction, self-government, land claims negotiations, interpretation of treaty rights and obligations and other related matters.

Fourth, while these discussions may provide for sub-agreements respecting the Hay River Reserve land, the programs and services provided by government will clearly have to respect the band's authority and jurisdiction over reserve land. Moreover, these talks establish that the sub-agreements on land, or any other matter, can be terminated by the band.

Finally, the Hay River band's request that the Government of the Northwest Territories develop a policy on reserves will obviously involve addressing the delivery of GNWT programs and services, as they may relate to existing reserve lands and lands which may be set aside in the future through treaty land entitlement agreements or related measures.

The arrangements made with respect to Hay River Reserve lands would presumably be considered in a Government of the Northwest Territories' policy, if one is developed, but it is premature, at this time, to suggest that these talks and its land management sub-agreements will become the "model" for new reserves. Thank you.

Return To Question 8-12(5): Hay River Reserve - Model For Treaty Lands
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 48

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot.

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yesterday, the federal government announced a reduction of federal tax on tobacco products. My question is to the Honourable Minister of Finance, but he is not in the House so I will direct my question to the Premier. Madam Speaker, what impact will this have on the cost of tobacco products in the NWT? Thank you.

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Madam Premier.

Return To Question 29-12(5): Impact Of Federal Tax Reduction On Tobacco Products
Question 29-12(5): Impact Of Federal Tax Reduction On Tobacco Products
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 48

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, in a conversation with the Minister of Finance on his deliberations in Ottawa, the Minister will be prepared to make a statement when he returns to the House. He will answer the suggestion of the federal government's elimination of partial taxes upon his return. Thank you.

Return To Question 29-12(5): Impact Of Federal Tax Reduction On Tobacco Products
Question 29-12(5): Impact Of Federal Tax Reduction On Tobacco Products
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 48

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Social Services, and it's with regard to the salaries and benefits of alcohol and drug treatment centre staff. I also want to express my appreciation that there is an overall increase to salaries of treatment centre staff of $2,500, retroactive to April 1. However, the Minister also indicated there would be further benefits of $4,484 per year for those staff employed by treatment centres in Inuvik and Iqaluit. I would like to ask the Minister why the Hay River Reserve treatment centre was left out, and to also include the Yellowknife treatment centre.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Social Services.

Return To Question 30-12(5): Salaries And Benefits For Hay River Treatment Centre Staff
Question 30-12(5): Salaries And Benefits For Hay River Treatment Centre Staff
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 48

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Inuvik and Iqaluit are off the highway system so their benefits are different. The benefits that are packaged for Hay River are different from those two communities. Thank you.

Return To Question 30-12(5): Salaries And Benefits For Hay River Treatment Centre Staff
Question 30-12(5): Salaries And Benefits For Hay River Treatment Centre Staff
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question 30-12(5): Salaries And Benefits For Hay River Treatment Centre Staff
Question 30-12(5): Salaries And Benefits For Hay River Treatment Centre Staff
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. During the last five years, before the alcohol and drug treatment centre opened in Hay River, I have, on numerous occasions, requested the department to give me some salary levels of those different treatment centres that are operating in the north. I have never been successful in getting that. I would like to ask the Minister whether the department does have a policy with regard to the level of salary that treatment centre workers start at, and their yearly increments after that. Also, what kind of benefits they receive, and what kind of isolation benefits they receive, which I haven't been able to get any information on, to date. So I would like to ask the Minister whether she does have an overall scale she relies on to determine salaries and benefits.

Supplementary To Question 30-12(5): Salaries And Benefits For Hay River Treatment Centre Staff
Question 30-12(5): Salaries And Benefits For Hay River Treatment Centre Staff
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 48

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Social Services.

Further Return To Question 30-12(5): Salaries And Benefits For Hay River Treatment Centre Staff
Question 30-12(5): Salaries And Benefits For Hay River Treatment Centre Staff
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 48

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We will provide Mr. Gargan all the detailed information that he is requesting, by early next week. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 30-12(5): Salaries And Benefits For Hay River Treatment Centre Staff
Question 30-12(5): Salaries And Benefits For Hay River Treatment Centre Staff
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 48

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I appreciate that Mr. Pollard may come back with more details and blow-by- blow when he gets in the House tomorrow, but I think, through us, the people of the Northwest Territories are entitled to know some basic facts about this major issue that has occupied the national press for weeks now. I would like to, respectfully, with your lead, Madam Speaker, ask the Premier if she could at least tell us, has the price of cigarettes changed in the Northwest Territories since the federal government's announcement of yesterday? Thank you.

The Speaker

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Return To Question 31-12(5): Change In Cigarette Prices Since Federal Announcement
Question 31-12(5): Change In Cigarette Prices Since Federal Announcement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 48

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, the price of cigarettes has not changed and there will be no change until such time as we can meet effectively with the details, with the Finance Minister, and to find out the exact breakdown. I realize there has been a lot of discussion in the press in what's happening between Ontario and Quebec, and I understand the anxiety that Members may have. What are we going to do immediately? I feel ill-prepared to bring to this House any indication of change, until I have the full particulars and the details of what is really happening in terms of what the federal government is going to take off and reduce, because there is still considerable debate about that. My apologies for not answering today, it's just that I'm ill-equipped because I do not have all the details. Thank you.

Return To Question 31-12(5): Change In Cigarette Prices Since Federal Announcement
Question 31-12(5): Change In Cigarette Prices Since Federal Announcement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 49

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Amittuq, Mr. Allooloo.

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Renewable Resources. I know the Minister and his staff have been representing the Northwest Territories in Europe to talk about the fur issue. The fur is still very important to the people of the Northwest Territories. I wonder, Madam Speaker, if the Minister is going to report on his meetings or his trip over to Europe, during this session. Thank you.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 32-12(5): Report On European Meetings Re Fur Issues
Question 32-12(5): Report On European Meetings Re Fur Issues
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 49

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Yes, Madam Speaker, it's my intention to provide to Members of the Legislature a short report, in the next couple of days, in relation to the trip I took to Strasbourg and Brussels, my meetings with the Members of the European Parliament, and some of the information I gained. The comments have gone to those Members and, perhaps, some of the communication of the exchanges we had in the few days I was in attendance there. Thank you.

Return To Question 32-12(5): Report On European Meetings Re Fur Issues
Question 32-12(5): Report On European Meetings Re Fur Issues
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 49

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot.

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the new Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. I congratulate him for taking on this important department. On December 13, the former Minister tabled a document "Towards an NWT Mineral Strategy" and on December 14, in response to a question, she conveyed to this House that a thicker document was being translated, and as soon as it was available she would circulate it so we didn't have to wait until the next sitting of this House to review it. I'm assuming that she was referring to this NWT mining strategy. My question to the Minister is, what is the status of this GNWT comprehensive mining strategy?

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, Minister Todd.

Return To Question 33-12(5): Status Of GNWT Comprehensive Mining Strategy
Question 33-12(5): Status Of GNWT Comprehensive Mining Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 49

John Todd Keewatin Central

The comprehensive mineral strategy was in place, and what the Government Leader said at the time was correct. I have reviewed it, since taking over the responsibility, and there were some minor adjustments I wanted made to it. They are now made and I will be able to table the minerals strategy in this House, hopefully by the end of next week. Thank you.

Return To Question 33-12(5): Status Of GNWT Comprehensive Mining Strategy
Question 33-12(5): Status Of GNWT Comprehensive Mining Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 49

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member from Amittuq, Mr. Allooloo.

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Premier if the government is planning to report to the Legislative Assembly on the sale of staff housing. Thank you.

The Speaker

Thank you. Madam Premier. I'm sorry, I should have directed the question to the Minister of Public Works, who is taking on the responsibility for the sale of staff housing. Minister of Public Works, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 34-12(5): Report On Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 34-12(5): Report On Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 49

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes.

Return To Question 34-12(5): Report On Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 34-12(5): Report On Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Allooloo.

Supplementary To Question 34-12(5): Report On Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 34-12(5): Report On Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 49

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Madam Speaker, the sale of staff housing is very important to my constituents and to other people's areas. I would like to know if the Minister knows when he will be able to make a progress report to this Legislative Assembly on the sale of staff housing. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 34-12(5): Report On Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 34-12(5): Report On Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 49

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Public Works, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 34-12(5): Report On Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 34-12(5): Report On Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 49

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will make that available to the House before Monday. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 34-12(5): Report On Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 34-12(5): Report On Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 49

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

---Applause

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It has been 100 months since I've asked an oral question so I'm looking forward to this one. My question is to the Minister of Justice. The question I would like to get a response to is on the level of policing in Yellowknife. Over the past while, the safety situation in Yellowknife, I think, has deteriorated considerably. For the first time in my memory, there have been armed robberies. There are break and enters, we have had drunken brawls in the streets of Yellowknife in the summer when the bars shut down, and we have unsolved crimes in Yellowknife. I wonder what the Minister is doing to address this very serious situation.

The Speaker

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 35-12(5): Level Of Policing In Yellowknife
Question 35-12(5): Level Of Policing In Yellowknife
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 50

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is no secret that, as a government, we've had difficulty, over the past few years, trying to balance the demands of large growing urban centres like Iqaluit and Yellowknife, and the increasing social problems that manifests with the need, on the other hand, of small communities like Trout Lake, Resolute and many other small outlying communities that need the most basic policing services. That is, one member of the RCMP to be permanently resident in their communities. We've had ongoing discussions with the RCMP about this problem.

I have taken the view that we should, especially in consideration of the women, the elderly and the children in the communities -- those who are the least able to defend and protect themselves -- that there should be at least one person always present in the communities to give them the sense of safety and security. That has been my view. At the same time, I recognize that we do have escalating problems in places like the city of Yellowknife.

Ultimately, it will be, perhaps, political will that will dictate on how we settle where the limited resources should go. I think the RCMP will also be making some suggestions, in the next few months, on how they propose to reorganize and allocate their members in response to demands that face them every day. A review is going to be done in small measure to look at the work that RCMP members do, especially in small communities.

There was a time when the RCMP did all the work of the federal government and was the dispenser of drugs for people and dogs. They did welfare work and worked in many other areas. Over the years, through direct and indirect redefinitions of workloads, this has changed and diminished. I think it may be time to look at their role again. For instance, the RCMP are still inoculating dogs in some communities. Surely, there are other resources that could be used to decrease their workloads. That is the main difficulty facing many members in the small detachments. We need to look at that.

I have also suggested to the department that we look very seriously at the suggestion that there will come a time when we can expect communities, community leaders and parents to take more responsibility for policing themselves, their neighbourhoods and their children. There will need to be some attempts made by communities to identify ways to address the problems that demand that more and more police forces be made available in our communities. There may be a day when we can say that unless communities come up with some concrete approaches to resolving some of these problems, we will simply start to roll back the number of RCMP members that are allocated in each community.

If you look at the allocations across the north right now, there are large discrepancies on a per capita basis. Yellowknife is one example. There are other communities which are of similar size across the territories that have a huge difference in the number of members assigned. We have a pilot project that we just initiated a week ago, to have a joint funding arrangement with the federal government, to look at training some community members from Fort Good Hope and Coral Harbour. They will train for a month or so in Regina, return to their communities and be available to assist RCMP to carry out their policing duties. We will see if that sort of approach will help in getting communities to take more responsibility and ownership for policing work and to diminish the demands on the police in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Return To Question 35-12(5): Level Of Policing In Yellowknife
Question 35-12(5): Level Of Policing In Yellowknife
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 50

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary To Question 35-12(5): Level Of Policing In Yellowknife
Question 35-12(5): Level Of Policing In Yellowknife
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 50

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Madam Speaker, that was a long, philosophical, interesting answer, but I think it answered more than the actual question I had asked. I think people are very supportive of the initiatives of the Minister in smaller communities. There is no argument with that. Smaller communities deserve to have basic policing services.

Our concern, though, is with the Minister's responsibilities for the safety of everybody. Here in Yellowknife, the RCMP also look after the safety of Ndilo, Dettah and the largest aboriginal community in the Northwest Territories who live here in Yellowknife. It is my very strong feeling that the RCMP in Yellowknife, right now, are doing a great job, but they are really over-extended. We're at the breaking point here, as far as providing a safe environment for the people who live in Yellowknife. I wonder what specific steps the Minister is prepared to support to deal with this issue, before we have a very serious problem.

Supplementary To Question 35-12(5): Level Of Policing In Yellowknife
Question 35-12(5): Level Of Policing In Yellowknife
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 50

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 35-12(5): Level Of Policing In Yellowknife
Question 35-12(5): Level Of Policing In Yellowknife
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 50

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, thank you. I know that, as the Minister of Justice, when I took over the portfolio, there is a need to review everything that you take the responsibility for, and to look at the work that needs to be done. I've done that in a systematic way in the area of corrections, which is a new arrival within the department. Policing is another one. I can tell the Member that I share the concern, and I hear the keenly veiled threat that I had better do something before something major happens as a result of lack of adequate police presence in Yellowknife. I should let the Member know, that is also the implication for many of the small communities that have zero RCMP presence. I've communicated to the RCMP in the meetings that I've had with them, that if they feel they can manage with what they have then I would like to see how they will propose to allocate the members they have, with the budget they have, to meet the demands of the city of Yellowknife, as well as the small communities. If there is simply a shortage of dollars and resources, that it is hitting the level at which there is significant danger to the public and to the people of the Northwest Territories because of inadequate, insufficient support in resourcing of the RCMP, this government and I need to be told that. That has been the message that has been given to the RCMP. We will be having meetings with them over the next while. They've indicated, for instance, that they would like to make some suggestions on how they might want to reorganize,

even locally, in trying to better meet the workload and the demands they see facing them. So, that is the indication I can give to the Member at this time. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 35-12(5): Level Of Policing In Yellowknife
Question 35-12(5): Level Of Policing In Yellowknife
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 51

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Recently, there have been some major changes in Ottawa, or suggestions in Ottawa, that the military bases be closed around the country as part of a federal cost-saving measure. While I recognize the fact that this government has no input into the military arrangements, it's between the Government of Canada. However, we do have some say in federal programs that are operated in the Northwest Territories, such as the RCMP, for example. Madam Speaker, I would like to direct my question to the Minister responsible for Justice in the territories, under whose general direction the RCMP fall. I would like to ask the Minister whether he's aware of any reorganization plans of the G division of the Northwest Territories to amalgamate with the Alberta divisions of RCMP as a cost-saving measure? Is the Minister aware of any such plans?

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 36-12(5): Amalgamation Of Rcmp "g" Division With Alberta
Question 36-12(5): Amalgamation Of Rcmp "g" Division With Alberta
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 51

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, the rumour hasn't reached me yet -- well, I should say it has now -- but I have not heard of it before. I certainly haven't seen anything from the department or the RCMP as any indication that a senior in Ottawa is contemplating such. Thank you.

Return To Question 36-12(5): Amalgamation Of Rcmp "g" Division With Alberta
Question 36-12(5): Amalgamation Of Rcmp "g" Division With Alberta
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 51

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary To Question 36-12(5): Amalgamation Of Rcmp "g" Division With Alberta
Question 36-12(5): Amalgamation Of Rcmp "g" Division With Alberta
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 51

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Such a plan, if it ever comes about, will greatly affect the level of service that the RCMP deliver in the Northwest Territories. Because we are serviced only by the RCMP, we don't have provincial police yet, I think it's important that the Department of Justice be informed of this. I wonder if the Minister will make efforts to make sure that consultation does take place with us before such a move is undertaken.

Supplementary To Question 36-12(5): Amalgamation Of Rcmp "g" Division With Alberta
Question 36-12(5): Amalgamation Of Rcmp "g" Division With Alberta
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 51

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 36-12(5): Amalgamation Of Rcmp "g" Division With Alberta
Question 36-12(5): Amalgamation Of Rcmp "g" Division With Alberta
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 51

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, I will ask the department to discretely inquire about it so I won't embarrass myself. If there is such a move afoot, then we will prepare ourselves accordingly. Mahsi.

Further Return To Question 36-12(5): Amalgamation Of Rcmp "g" Division With Alberta
Question 36-12(5): Amalgamation Of Rcmp "g" Division With Alberta
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 51

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. On December 9 -- today is February 9, two months later -- I asked a question to the Minister of Social Services with regard to fuel subsidies. There seems to be some discrepancies on who is eligible and who is not. But I haven't received, to date, any kind of response or even an acknowledgement. I would like to ask the Minister, where is she at with regard to this eligibility for fuel subsidy?

The Speaker

Thank you, Minister of Social Services.

Return To Question 37-12(5): Eligibility For Fuel Subsidy
Question 37-12(5): Eligibility For Fuel Subsidy
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 51

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The eligibility is by age, and the seniors should let the office of Social Services know as soon as they become eligible. I believe it is at age 60. Thank you.

Return To Question 37-12(5): Eligibility For Fuel Subsidy
Question 37-12(5): Eligibility For Fuel Subsidy
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

Item 7: Returns To Written Questions
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

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Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Madam Speaker, Return to Written Question 1-12(5) and Return to Written Question 2-12(5), asked by Mr. Patterson to the Minister of Personnel and the Minister of Public Works and Services, concerning the assessment of all housing units for energy efficiency and state of repair.

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

This is in response to a question asked by Mr. Patterson on December 14, 1993 regarding the assessment of all housing units for energy efficiency and state of repair. All "White Row Housing" staff units were assessed during 1993. Inspections were carried out by a team made up of representatives of the departments of Public Works and Services, Personnel and the NWT Housing Corporation.

Two of these units, numbers 404 and 501, were found to have deficiencies with the result that rents on these units were reduced by $17.00 and $40.00 per month respectively. When the deficiencies have been corrected, the rents will revert to normal.

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

This is in response to a question asked by Mr. Patterson on December 14, 1993 regarding the assessment of all housing units for energy efficiency and state of repair. All "White Row Housing" staff units were assessed during 1993. Inspections were carried out by a team made up of representatives of the departments of Public Works and Services, Personnel and the NWT Housing Corporation.

Two of these units, numbers 404 and 501, were found to have deficiencies with the result that rents on these units were reduced by $17.00 and $40.00 per month respectively. When the deficiencies have been corrected, the rents will revert to normal.

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Return to Written Question 3-12(5), Madam Speaker, asked by Mr. Antoine to the Minister of Renewable Resources, concerning results of harvest of big game in the Northwest Territories.

Non-resident hunters may only harvest adult male Dahl sheep, caribou and moose, therefore, no ewes or moose bull calves are killed by non-resident hunters. The harvest of Dahl sheep, caribou and moose by non-resident hunters in each Mackenzie Mountain outfitting area in the last year was: outfitting area E/1-1, 34 sheep, 13 caribou, four moose; outfitting area E/1-2, 20 sheep, 25 caribou, 6 moose; outfitting area E/1-3, 32 sheep, 44 caribou, 9 moose; outfitting area E/1-4, 22 sheep, 21 caribou, nine moose; outfitting area E/1-5, 12 sheep, 36 caribou, eight moose; outfitting area E/1-6, 37 sheep, 18 caribou, one moose; outfitting area E/1-7, 24 sheep, 12 caribou, five moose; outfitting area E/1-8, 16 sheep, six caribou, four moose, for a total of 197 sheep, 175 caribou and 46 moose.

No black bears were harvested by non-resident hunters. Non-resident hunters may not hunt grizzly bear. One problem grizzly bear was killed and reported in E/1-7.

The meat from sheep, caribou and moose is eaten in camp (20,000 pounds), exported by hunters (10,500 pounds) and outfitters (6,000 pounds) and also distributed among communities. The six northern outfitters provided about 15,000 pounds of meat to Sahtu communities. Some meat was provided by the outfitter from E/1-8 to Nahanni Butte.

All meat and trophies taken out of the Northwest Territories require export permits. The meat and trophies are inspected and tagged and then sent home with the hunters, most of whom are not Canadian.

In the Sahtu region, export permits are issued either at the Norman Wells office of the Department of Renewable Resources or the department's seasonal check station at Mile 222 on the Canol Road. In the Deh Cho region, export permits are issued either at the Fort Simpson office of the Department of Renewable Resources of the department's seasonal check station at Flat Lake.

The following three people have been employed by the big game outfitters: Sahtu, Andrew Horassi (E/1-3) and Stewart Pope (E/1-1); and, Gwich'in, Keith Colin (E/1-1).

Mr. Colin was employed for two years and in the last two years, has been offered employment but not accepted. No people from Deh Cho have been employed. Outfitters have advertised to hire and train guides, however, few people have shown interest, possibly because guide wages are low and guides do not go home during the three month season.

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, petitions. Item 10, reports of standing and

special committees. Item 11, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 52

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. As required by subsection 55(2) of the Legal Profession Act, I wish to table the following document, Tabled Document 13-12(5), 11th Annual Report of the Northwest Territories Law Foundation, for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1993.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 12, tabling of documents. Madam Premier.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 52

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Minister of Safety and Public Services, the Honourable Richard Nerysoo, I wish to table the following document, Tabled Document 14-12(5), 39th Annual Report of the Northwest Territories Liquor Commission, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1993.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 12, tabling of documents. Item 13, notices of motion. Item 14, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 15, motions. Madam Premier.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 52

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I give notice that on Monday, February 14, 1994, the Honourable John Pollard will deliver the budget address. Thank you. I believe I'm in the wrong section here.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker

You were in the wrong section. I believe the appropriate section was under notices of motions or, possibly, under Ministers' statements. You may want to ask for unanimous consent to go back to Ministers' statements, Madam Premier. Madam Premier.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 52

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

I seek unanimous consent to go back to Ministers' statements.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 52

The Speaker

Madam Premier is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Madam Premier. Thank you.

Minister's Statement 7-12(5): Budget Address
Revert Back To Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 52

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Thank you very much. Madam Speaker, I give notice that on Monday, February 14, 1994, the Honourable John Pollard will deliver the budget address. Thank you.

Minister's Statement 7-12(5): Budget Address
Revert Back To Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 52

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 15, motions. Item 16, first reading of bills. Item 17, second reading of bills. Item 18, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 1-12(5), Towards An NWT Mineral Strategy; Tabled Document 2-12(5), Building and Learning Strategy; Tabled Document 3-12(5), Towards a Strategy to 2010: A Discussion Paper; and, Tabled Document 11-12(5), First Annual Report of the Languages Commissioner of the NWT for the Year 1992-93, with Mr. Lewis in the chair.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

The committee will come to order. Things look different but I'm sure they are going to sound the same. We've got four items. What is the wish of the committee?

---Applause

Mr. Ningark.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 53

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and congratulations. The Ordinary Members' Caucus doesn't have any business for committee of the whole today.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 53

The Chair Brian Lewis

If that is the wish of Members, would somebody make a motion to report progress? Mr. Dent.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 53

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I move that we report progress.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 53

The Chair Brian Lewis

This motion, I believe, is not debateable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. I will now rise and report progress.

---Applause

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 53

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Item 19, report of committee of the whole. Mr. Lewis.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Madam Speaker, your committee has been considering tabled documents 1-12(5), 2-12(5), 3-12(5), and 11-12(5), and would like to report progress. Madam Speaker, I move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 20, third reading of bills. Oh, I'm sorry. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre has put forth a motion with regard to concluding committee of the whole, seconded by Mr. Allooloo. To the motion.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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An Hon. Member

Question.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 20, third reading of bills. Item 21, orders of the day. Mr.

Clerk.

Item 21: Orders Of The Day
Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Page 53

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Madam Speaker, there will be a meeting of the full Caucus immediately after adjournment this afternoon. Meetings for tomorrow morning, at 10:30 am of the Ordinary Members' Caucus and at 12:00 pm of the Management Services Board. Orders of the Day for Thursday, February 10, 1994.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Oral Questions

6. Written Questions

7. Returns to Written Questions

8. Replies to Opening Address

9. Petitions

10. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

11. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

12. Tabling of Documents

13. Notices of Motion

14. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

15. Motions

16. First Reading of Bills

17. Second Reading of Bills

18. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Tabled Document 4-12(5), Building a Strategy for Dealing with Violence in the NWT

- Tabled Document 5-12(5), Declaration on Family Violence of the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories

- Appearance of Witnesses on Family Violence in the NWT

- Tabled Document 6-12(5), Department of Justice Response to The Justice House

- Tabled Document 1-12(5), Towards an NWT Mineral Strategy

- Tabled Document 2-12(5), Building and Learning Strategy

- Tabled Document 3-12(5), Towards a Strategy to 2010: A Discussion Paper

- Tabled Document 11-12(5), First Annual Report of the Languages Commissioner of the NWT for the Year 1992-93

19. Report of Committee of the Whole

20. Third Reading of Bills

21. Orders of the Day

Item 21: Orders Of The Day
Item 21: Orders Of The Day

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The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Thursday, February 10, 1994 at 1:30 pm.

---ADJOURNMENT