Mr. Arvaluk.

In clause 35, it says "the Commissioner on the recommendation of the Minister may make regulations." Can the regulation then indicate, respecting that uncontrollable dust or snowstorm or anything like that, can this fit into clause 35?

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

No, I don't think so. I would have to get a legal opinion, I guess. I am not a lawyer.

Mr. Arvaluk, do you want the Law Clerk to try and interpret your question? Law Clerk.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No, the section on regulations doesn't give that authority to the Commissioner on the recommendation of the Minister, so without that specific authority, you couldn't make that type of regulation, and I see Mr. Todd's legal counsel agreeing with me, as well.

Thank you very much. Mr. Arvaluk.

Mr. Chairman, my concern is like Mr. Gargan's. It is January or February. You are coming from Fort Providence going to Rae-Edzo. That area could get pretty wicked in the winter-time. You are having problem enough trying to keep your windshield wipers working and trying to prevent your doors from freezing and your radiator area is freezing up, and because of the storm, it is sort of melting and freezing at the same time when you are driving -- how do you get any kind of sympathy in front of the court for the person who was charged for having a dirty license plate?

Thank you. I believe that is directed to the Law Clerk. Ms. MacPherson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think Mr. Arvaluk was basically expressing some frustration with this issue and wasn't requesting a legal opinion. Thank you.

Thank you. Clause 35. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

The bill as a whole.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Chairman, just for the record, I realize that there are a lot of Members missing from the House to deal with the issue. I also realize that there are a lot of communities in which they don't have paved streets. Practically all of them don't. For those communities, I would like to say that this does pose maybe an unfair advantage. If you are looking at it, I guess, from the point of law, and you say that, having paved streets in Yellowknife lets the people there not to worry about dirty plates. But all the other communities that do have that are at a disadvantage. For the record, I would like to say that, if by chance, you are parked in front of the Bay and the RCMP says to you, your licence plate is dirty, clean them, you have no choice but to do it. But it puts you at a disadvantage because you don't have soap and water that you carry around with you, nor is the Bay going to provide that service. Also, Mr. Chairman, in a year's time, I use up about 80,000 kilometres, so that is a lot of wiping I would have to do in order to not break this section of the Motor Vehicles Act. So I think the Minister should be aware that keeping this section as it is puts a lot of people at a disadvantage, if they ever use that section. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. I, too, need sympathy in my community. My highway is only about two miles long.

---Laughter

Bill as a whole.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Does the committee agree to Bill 9.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 9 is now ready for third reading. Thank you very much.

---Applause

I would like to thank the honourable Mr. Todd and his witness, Mr. Gamble, for appearing before the committee. Thank you.

Should we move on to Bill 11, An Act to Amend the Safety Act? Mr. Nerysoo, as the Minister responsible for this bill, do you have any opening remarks? Mr. Minister.

Introductory Remarks

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased, Mr. Chairman, to make a few opening remarks with regard to this particular legislation amending the Safety Act.

In revising our structure of maximum fines, we have taken into consideration the trend of increasing fines elsewhere in Canada, because we did not wish employers, especially employers from outside the Northwest Territories who are working here, to think that a markedly lower system of fines here is an open invitation to defy territorial legislation.

As we know somewhat from the complaints voiced by the business community on our WCB rates, sometimes contractors from the south ignore NWT safety standards and end up with accident rates which result in across the board higher premiums being assessed for the industry which are paid for by NWT companies.

Mr. Chairman, under the current Safety Act in the Northwest Territories, there are three levels of offences: First, offences committed by employers; second, offences committed by employees or persons connected with an operation; and third, offences committed by individuals who condoned other offences.

For the first type of offence, where employers have committed offenses, the present maximum fine is $10,000. In this bill, we propose to increase the maximum to $500,000.

For the second type of offence, where offences are committed by employees or persons connected with an operation, the present maximum fine is $1,000, and we propose to increase that to $50,000.

For the third type of offence, where offences are condoned by others, we propose to increase the present maximum fine from $500 to $25,000.

Mr. Chairman, the levels of fines created by legislation will not be the highest in Canada, nor the lowest. We have looked long and hard at the types of occupational health and safety offences that are committed in the Northwest Territories and are pleased that our vigorous compliance program usually result in offenders being caught and corrected before we have to use our last resort, and that is prosecution. By increasing the maximum levels of fines, we will add one more very significant tool to encourage compliance with our occupational health and safety legislation. The increases to the maximum fines which can be levied for offences under the Safety Act and regulations will also support the initiatives of the Workers' Compensation Board aimed at encouraging the prevention of accidents. Many groups have expressed concerns to the Workers' Compensation Board that fines under the Safety Act are too low to be an effective deterrent.

Mr. Chairman, I would be happy to answer any questions that you and the committee Members might have. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Does the chairman of the Standing Committee on Legislation have any introductory remarks? Mr. Gargan.

Standing Committee On Legislation Comments

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Standing Committee on Legislation has reviewed Bill 11, An Act to Amend the Safety Act. The bill amends the act to increase the maximum level of fines under the act. The committee is aware that it is rare that a judge would award the maximum fine on conviction. However, the committee does agree that the higher fine may act as a deterrent to potential offenders. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.