Thank you. To Tabled Document 34-12(5), Tradition and Change, A Strategy for Renewable Resource Development in the NWT, February 1994. Can we move on to the main estimates of the department? There are no general comments or concerns about the tabled document, Tradition and Change.
Debates of March 28th, 1994
Topics
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
The Chair John Ningark
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
The Chair John Ningark
To the 1994-95 main estimates, we are on page 12-10. Are there any general comments on the main estimates? Mr. Ng.
General Comments
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On Friday, there was an interesting broadcast on television regarding the poaching of black bear gall bladders in the United States, as a result of the high demand in foreign markets, primarily Asian markets. I would like to ask the Minister about some of the commercial quotas we have for polar bears and for barrenland grizzly bears. Has your department investigated whether there is a demand for those products as a result of hunts? Thank you.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister of Renewable Resources.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, the market for bear gall bladders has been documented and publicized for a number of years now. We, as a department, do not indulge in the sale of animal parts and so do not have any response. Except to say that it is not an activity that we encourage or engage in. Thank you.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister for Kitikmeot. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, pardon me.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The reason why I'm bringing it up, Mr. Chairman, is in the broadcast they were quoting -- and I know it has to be substantiated and it may be exaggerated -- figures of about $28,000 for an ounce of gallbladder. Obviously, if there was a market for the products of some of the animals that were taken already under commercial hunts or sports hunts, and these products are readily available, then there is substantial potential for additional economic benefits for our harvesters.
That's why I would like to ask, if the department hasn't investigated this, if they're willing to entertain looking into whether there is a market for these products? Thank you.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The difficulty is that we would be encouraging people to move into the area of poaching because of the amount of money that can be made by selling particular parts of an animal. It is not an activity that we want to encourage. I know that the Asian market, for instance, has a number of instances of controversial and illegal trade. Rhinoceros horns are one item. The selling of parts of the Indian and the Siberian Tigers are another. More recently, there was discussion about the sale of seal penises that grabbed the public's attention, both nationally and internationally.
It becomes very difficult to get involved in selling highly-priced parts of certain animals, because it could encourage the public to consider getting involved in those activities, much more than if we just maintain an outright ban on anyone -- including this government - getting involved in the selling of animal parts. Thank you.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Minister, then, is it currently illegal in the Northwest Territories to sell animal parts, besides hides of course, which are harvested from these commercial hunts? Thank you.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Ng.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If it wasn't illegal, then I can't see a difference between selling a polar bear hide through a sports hunt for $10,000 to $15,000 versus selling a gall bladder that is derived from that same hunt for $10,000 or $15,000 or whatever the market will bear if there is a market for it. That is the point I was trying to make to the Minister. Thank you.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Yes, I understand the point that the Member is making. I would suggest that, if we engage in the selling of gall bladders of black bears, for instance, we would wipe out the black bears in the Mackenzie Valley in just a number of years. There is a high price to pay in getting involved in the selling of animal parts. As the price goes up, the risk of over harvesting and poaching to the point of extinction of certain species increases. That is what the international trade on animal parts is dealing with right now. Thank you.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Gargan.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have one question for the Minister on the five year fire suppression contract. On February 24, you said that it went to Cabinet and they should have made a decision within the next two weeks. What is happening with that? Is Kakisa part of that contract?
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 888
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 889
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is a new agreement that has been negotiated. Kakisa is part of that agreement. Hopefully, we will have it signed within the next couple of weeks. Thank you.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 889
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Member for Aivilik, Mr. Arvaluk.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 889
James Arvaluk Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On Mr. Ng's question, I don't get the Minister's answer. In Coral Harbour, there was a request made to Renewable Resources through an HTA that they were buying gall bladders for $80 to $90 a piece. Why is the Minister telling Mr. Ng that they are not encouraging or it is illegal to sell animal parts when you are doing that in Coral Harbour?
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 889
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.