Thank you. I believe that was a comment or some implication for a reply from the Minister. Mr. Minister.
Debates of March 28th, 1994
Topics
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 899
The Chair John Ningark
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 899
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
As I said earlier, we will ask for a briefing on it from the HTA and the renewable resource officer involved. It appears that, at this time, we were just trying to go with what might be considered local custom. In the case of harvesting of wildlife in my Dene communities, it is an annual activity amongst the trappers that they decide among themselves who is going to be harvesting and trapping in which particular area for the coming year. No trapper is encouraged to complain to the government saying that they did not get fair access to an area that was assigned to another family. We try not to mediate or arbitrate in some of these decisions. They are intended, in the first part, to be local. If
they deviate from consistency, then, at best, we can ask them for some clarification on it. Thank you.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 899
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Arvaluk.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 899
James Arvaluk Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I put that to rest. I was using that as an example. There must be other ones like that. I understand the Minister is leaving that all up to the HTA in the local communities, but there is an inconsistency. We take a leadership role in promoting education, and Mr. Nerysoo knows that very well. We also promote the home ownership program, and Donnie Morin knows all about that. What I find inconsistent in the government as a whole is that we encourage a student to go to university or college. There are not too many jobs in Coral Harbour so we give them training. They spend four years in an apprenticeship program and they go to work for Rankin Inlet, for example, where all the capital plans are, as we found out last year. They work for six months there. Six months plus one day and they come back after the construction season and they are denied allocations for polar bear tags, whales and things like that.
It is fine and dandy to give all kinds of authority to HTA, but I think the government should also take a leadership role in encouraging HTA to give consideration -- as part of the government's leadership role -- to encouraging education and finding jobs elsewhere if there is nothing in the local community. We should be able to welcome students back with the full privileges they previously held. I think we should take that role.
I'm not down-playing HTA, but most of the HTA membership so far have been hunters. They are not economists. They are not educators. They are not normally political leaders of the community. What they do fits them well as far as conservation is concerned, as far as subsistence hunting is concerned, fair distribution, et cetera, but they can't see a global picture about how other populations of the community should be treated in terms of benefits that they, themselves, enjoy.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 899
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister. Mr. Arvaluk, I believe the Minister is signalling you to go on. Mr. Arvaluk.
Motion To Extend Sitting Hours, Carried
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 899
James Arvaluk Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I recognize that the time is getting short. I would like to make a motion, Mr. Chairman. I move for an extension of the sitting hours for today to conclude this department.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 899
The Chair John Ningark
There's a motion on the floor to extend the sitting hours, until we conclude the department. The motion is in order. To the motion.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 899
An Hon. Member
Question.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 899
The Chair John Ningark
Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.
---Carried We will sit until we conclude the Department of Renewable Resources 1994-95 main estimates. Mr. Minister. Fuel operations. Mr. Arvaluk. Mr. Allooloo.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 900
Titus Allooloo Amittuq
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wish to continue my colleague from Aivilik's concerns, but I would like to say that the responsibility for giving out tags for polar bears, muskox, narwhal and walrus has been devolved from our government and Fisheries and Oceans to the local HTA, and I wish that to continue. I don't think departments should have control of it and I don't think we should get taxed for polar bears, muskox, narwhals and walruses. They are there to advise and I think it has been working very well.
As you know, Mr. Chairman, the Inuit -- even though they may be aboriginal people and a resident of a certain community -- cannot obtain polar bear and muskox tags if they don't have a general hunting licence. I don't know what sort of quota system there is the western Arctic. I think you need a tag to kill bison in the bison sanctuary out of Providence. Do the rules apply the same way? Does a person need a general hunting licence in order to obtain a tag, the same as applies in the Nunavut area?
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 900
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 900
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you. The discussion is one that might possibly touch on the Nunavut claims agreement. As the Members pointed out, hunting and harvesting rights have been constitutionally guaranteed to all Inuit equally. We shall review that, but I also know that many communities give priority to subsistence hunters and trappers before they give consideration to people who have jobs and other, more visible, higher forms of income. That might be a case where the HTA is balancing subsistence needs with the rights of all Inuit, for instance, GHL holders having equal access to the harvesting of these resources.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 900
The Chair John Ningark
Qujannamiik. Mr. Allooloo.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 900
Titus Allooloo Amittuq
Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think there might be a difference of view about the right to hunt and harvest wildlife. It had always been my understanding, and it is the understanding of most of the Inuit, that no one has the right unless there are enough animals. I have heard that there is an aboriginal right in this area. I don't think that has been pursued by the Inuit. It's a privilege, rather than a right for them. It might be different in the draft form of the law or the agreement, but it is basically the understanding of the Inuit that they have a privilege, rather than a right.
My question is, Mr. Chairman, because of that understanding, it has been practised in the past that I, as an Inuk living in Pond Inlet -- where there are 22 tags for polar bears and I don't know how many muskox and 100 narwhals -- don't have the right to harvest unless I have a tag. And, in order to get a tag, I need a general hunting licence. If I don't have a general hunting licence, then I don't have the right to harvest them. Does that regulation apply to bison, because you need a tag to harvest bison in this area? Thank you.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 900
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I believe the honourable Minister can only respond to what is in the regulations. Mr. Minister.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 900
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
In the case of Providence herd, you need tags. Tags are given out by Providence and Rae-Edzo HTA or the band gives allocation for harvesting bison in that area.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 27th, 1994
Page 900
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I have Mr. Allooloo.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 900
Titus Allooloo Amittuq
My basic question, Mr. Chairman, was did they need that, in order to get a general hunting licence?
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 900
The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Minister.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 900
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 900
The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Allooloo.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 900
Titus Allooloo Amittuq
My basic question was that, in order to get a bison tag, does the aboriginal person living in Providence or Fort Rae need a general hunting licence in order to obtain a tag for bison?
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 900
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 900
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Yes, that is correct. All treaty people automatically have a right to a GHL, so it's almost one and the same. I think the Member related to a different perspective, from between the Inuit and other aboriginal people; I am not certain it's the case. The Dene, for instance, and Metis, I know, and the Inuvialuit, for that matter, may differ. At least with the Dene and Metis, if they don't make the regulation and they have no part in the management of the resource, then they have little regard for the laws and the quotas that are set by this government. Whereas, now that we are increasing the area of co-management and local management, and local control and approaches to harvesting of wildlife is increasingly the way we do business, there is no difficulty. As far as I know, people see it as a right because it's like a right to live. They have a right to hunt moose and caribou and get fish as long as they are alive.
Where it becomes a privilege, I think, is when you mismanage it. Then you're right, I guess people feel like it's a privilege because they know it's dying out and it's not going to be around much more.
So it's integrated with the sense that, just as much as it's your right to harvest wildlife, it's equally your right, your responsibility and your duty to manage it so that you can always exercise that right, forever. I don't think it's any different, but in this part of the world, anyway, that's been the approach and the view. So, just some additional comments. Thank you.
Tabled Document 34-12(5): Tradition And Change, A Strategy For Renewable Resource Development In The Nwt, February 1994
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 900
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I guess if there was no mismanagement we wouldn't have any regulation. I have Mr. Arvaluk.