Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have a few additional comments on marine programs. I know that the marine services...

With respect to the highway maintenance of winter roads, I think Mr. Zoe was in the room when I spoke to Mr. Antoine's concerns. I want to point out, the highway operations are somewhere around $20 million in this O and M budget, that $12.5 million or 51 per cent of it is allocated to highway maintenance. I think up until now we've done a reasonable job. And I believe yourself, Mr. Chairman, made some comments yesterday about that.

These are difficult times. You have to make cuts. Somebody has to make a decision about cuts. I made a decision. I've tried to apply equity to the cuts, based upon the percentages of where the budget is and the allocations it's in. I'm going to try my best in the coming months to try to bring it back up to the level that we want. But we're all living in difficult times, and I think most of the honourable Members, as well as Mr. Zoe, understand that.

We're going to evaluate the impact very carefully of the fact that there has been a slight reduction in highway maintenance.

On the question of docks, I would like to correct Mr. Zoe. The majority of docks are not in the west, they're in the eastern Arctic. I don't want to make comparisons, but the reality is the most sophisticated docks are in the west and it's only the last two or three years that there has been a significant shift in trying to provide some marine development for people in the eastern Arctic. Again, done on an equitable basis, I think, and trying to improve the marine infrastructure for people who utilize it like fishermen, hunters, et cetera.

On privatization of engineering services, at this stage I'm quite frankly not in favour of that. I think our engineering division does a bang-up job. Certainly, if you look at our capital projects, rarely, rarely do we lapse money. I think considering the amount of money that we have, we've done a reasonable job. Unless there are some real solid arguments for their inability to deliver in a cost-effective way, I would have a difficult time at this time supporting that. I think it's important that I be frank. Mr. Zoe wouldn't expect me to be anything else.

However, with that said, we're open-ended. The door isn't closed. If there is someone with a proposal who wants to come forward and can demonstrate to us that they can do the job, do it more efficiently, and more importantly do it more cost effectively, we're certainly going to look at it.

On negotiated contracts, I've stated on a number of occasions that it's my intention to continue on with negotiated contracts where the net benefits go to northerners and it can be clearly demonstrated that way. We will continue with that policy, I want to assure Mr. Zoe. But I've also said on a number of occasions, I don't see negotiated contracts as a never-ending thing. At some point, we all have to become competitive and at some point, we all have to gain the expertise necessary to compete in the market place; however, at this time I want to assure him that there will be a continuation of negotiated contracts. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There has been ongoing concern expressed by Fisheries and Oceans, particularly as it relates to the river crossings and some of the environmental concerns they have. As a matter of fact, Mr. Gamble tells me that in previous years the department was in fact charged, and then the charges were withdrawn. So it's kind of an ongoing discussion between Fisheries and Oceans and their environmental concerns, as it relates to the erosion of the river beds. That's really what my comments were with respect to that.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just some comments about marine services. I know that in this department "marine" primarily means ferries, ferry crossings and the like, but I also know the Minister is keenly aware of the ocean being a lifeline in the Nunavut communities.

I would like to make two points: number one, I have, for years, believed that we should be able to achieve greater economies of scale working cooperatively with Greenland on resupply in the eastern Arctic. I want to publicly commend the Minister and his department for not only seeing that but for taking the initiative to visit Greenland and initiate high-level discussions with our neighbours about how cooperation might be mutually beneficial. I think there has been far too little cooperation between our government and the neighbouring circumpolar jurisdiction in recent years, and I'm delighted the Minister has taken this on. Anyone who thinks that it's extravagant or being done for anything but the best fiscal interests of the Government of the Northwest Territories is dead wrong.

Secondly, Mr. Chairman, the Minister, I believe, knows of my concerns about the apparent erosion of operation sealift, at least in my constituency. I don't really know if it's happening elsewhere. Mr. Chairman, for years our government has, I believe, supported one sealift, in cooperation with the Government of Canada and the Coast Guard, which is designed to put all our business into one contract so the best prices can be made available, not just to the government but to private people including the little people who order their supplies and perhaps their vehicles or a boat on the sealift. Over the years, Mr. Chairman, operation sealift has been eroded. There was a vessel called the Hancock Trader operated some years ago now by an enterprising individual who successfully stole quite a little bit of business away from the sealift operation. But the situation has gotten even more serious in recent years. There have been operators -- I call them "pirate operators" -- who have actively undermined operation sealift. I guess what alarms me, Mr. Chairman, is that it has come to my attention that agencies of our government have been using these unauthorized operators. For example, I will cite the Iqaluit Housing Authority which brought its materials and goods up to Iqaluit last year on a vessel other than the operation sealift contracted vessel.

There is another reason for concern about this, Mr. Chairman, and that is public safety and marine safety. I can do no more than cite the story of the barge that was, I believe, improperly secured and loaded by a company called Rock Lessard which was bringing its waste and scrap metal for the FOL contract south. This barge capsized en route to the south. I understand the accident was not reported as is required, even though the tons of scrap metal would probably constitute a marine hazard.

So, Mr. Chairman, I want to note my concern about these developments and urge the Minister and his officials to explore with the federal government -- I understand in their objectives they are looking at the devolution of certain federal marine programs -- in a cooperative manner how we might achieve the best economies of scale, both for the operation sealift and also for resupply in the eastern Arctic through Greenland.

If the Minister has a response I would be happy to hear it, Mr. Chairman, but I am mainly interested in making these comments on the record today. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will just make some quick, brief comments. I concur with the Member with respect to the erosion of operation sealift. We are working closely with Public Works and Services in an effort to try to resolve that. I believe the word he used was "pirating." I concur with that as well. At this time I am not able to tell you, not because I don't want to but because I haven't got the full information. We are working very closely with that because it is essential that we have a reasonable sealift at a reasonable price for the small operators as well as the large ones.

I appreciate the Member's comments with respect to the Greenland component. The first visit we made to Greenland was a technical visit made up of bureaucrats from Transportation and Public Works and Services. It was in an effort to look at the sealift operation and the POL products, et cetera.

What transpired was that we also found that the Greenland government is currently looking into the development of a significant airport program in building airports. I believe at the time Kuupik Kleist, who is the current Minister of Public Works and Transportation, indicated that there was somewhere in the range of about $200 million to build some airstrips in that area, and we agreed to provide them, at no cost and no charge, some technical advice on how they can perhaps build these airstrips in a more cost effective way. They were extremely pleased with our offer.

I also, of course -- knowing the entrepreneur in me -- indicated to them that perhaps there may be an opportunity for some northern business people to assist them and perhaps joint venture when they decide to move forward with these strips. There was clearly a sense of cooperation there, so I am optimistic that if this comes to pass and the dollars are there and the Department of Transportation can provide the Greenland government with significant technical expertise, that we may, in fact, manage to acquire some business for people who are in that field. Minister Kleist was in Yellowknife recently, and I am hopeful that we can take a small trade delegation, and others who may be interested, to Greenland in late May in an effort to -- not just, as Mr. Patterson said, to go and have a good time -- but try to perhaps secure some business for those people who are directly involved in it.

So I think this is an exciting initiative. There are large dollars involved. Yes, we are, on the front end, providing some free advice to them. I think that's good for us. It shows that Canadians and northern Canadians have some expertise in this field. So I think it's a laudable initiative and I'm hopeful that we will get an invitation some time in May. I would put together a contingency of people who are directly involved in that industry and others who are interested to go there and see if we can perhaps conclude an arrangement. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Line By Line

Directorate

Mahsi. One of the directorate's key structural objectives is to negotiate with the federal government to implement more transportation programs on its behalf. I ask

the Minister whether or not there are any ongoing negotiations on the all-weather road between Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is an ongoing discussion as it relates to the possible joint initiatives with the federal government as it relates to overall roads. There are no specific discussions under way between Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk. Thank you.

One of the initiatives also in the transportation strategy was the extension of the Mackenzie Highway north from Wrigley to Inuvik. Can the Minister tell us where the negotiations of that project are at?