Merci, Mr. Lewis. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as Members know, my predecessor committed to pursue, on behalf of Members, several matters regarding the Arctic Winter Games and I wish to advise the Assembly of our actions on these matters.

Perhaps most significantly, arrangements are being made for a late summer or early fall meeting of elected officials from each jurisdiction participating in the Arctic Winter Games. The Honourable Richard Nerysoo, who represented the government at the Canada Winter Games in Grande Prairie, had an opportunity to discuss the need and importance of such a meeting with the Ministers responsible from Yukon and Alberta. They have agreed such a meeting is appropriate, therefore, I will be writing each jurisdiction with suggested dates and locations for the meeting.

As several Members noted during the last sitting of this Assembly, this meeting is critically important to decide the future of the Arctic Winter Games and to ensure its purpose and objectives remain consistent with broad participation and the development of sports in the north. Our concerns with the future hosting of the games will be brought forward at this meeting.

As I confirmed in response to the Member for Inuvik, Mr. Speaker, all Members have been invited to provide me with suggestions for our NWT representatives on the Arctic Winter Games International Committee. I look forward to these suggestions and will carefully review this important decision to ensure the best representation possible.

Mr. Speaker, my predecessor did request, on behalf of the Member for Inuvik, a copy of the Arctic Winter Games International Committee's evaluation of the host bids for the 1998 Arctic Winter Games. This information was received and passed on to both the Member and the town of Inuvik. The deputy minister met with officials of the town in early February and confirmed that, in the department's opinion, the town of Inuvik had submitted a competitive bid and could not be faulted for their efforts.

Mr. Speaker, the Arctic Winter Games is the single largest sporting event in the north. Over 2,500 NWT athletes participate in competitions leading to selection of our NWT team. The future direction of the games has a major bearing on sports in the Northwest Territories and I will continue to pursue this matter with the priority it deserves and look forward to reporting further to Members on our progress. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. The Member for Yellowknife South is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Ms. Mike.

Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. We are all hearing about centralization as a result of the federal budget and the cost-saving measures being instituted across the country. Programs are being moved from regional centres to Ottawa and community programs are being moved to regional centres. I have also heard that Parks Canada will be pulling staff and resources out of its Nunavut district office in Iqaluit and moving them to Yellowknife. If this happens, the result will be substantial; a potential loss to Nunavut of employment, benefits, housing dollars and, most importantly, control and influence in the decisions that directly affects parks management in Nunavut.

My concern in the wake of the frenzied slashing of the budget, the Liberal government may have lost sight of their promise to consider first, the impact on people and related social costs of cutbacks and job losses.

Due to limited employment opportunities here in the north, it is even more important that federal government actions be consistent with their intentions to reduce the deficit in a manner that is compatible with putting Canadians back to work.

I would like to strongly encourage the Premier and the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism to continue in their efforts to obtain the relevant details and rationale for this move from the federal government. The people of Nunavut must be assured that every option was considered and that the residents who are directly affected by this reorganization are treated fairly.

I sincerely hope the federal government has fully considered the impact this move will have on the people of the Baffin region where a large part of the local economies are supported by visitors to our national parks and tourism. Qujannamiik.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) I rise today to speak about employment. As we are all aware, we are having more and more difficulty receiving more money from Ottawa for various programs and government operations.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I would like to say that there have been a lot of comments made here during this session at the Legislative Assembly. Mr. Speaker, I will use myself as an example; even though I don't speak English at all, I have been able to operate heavy equipment for many years. Mr. Speaker, right now, there are so many more requirements that have been placed upon people, in terms of education, certification, et cetera. Even though many of us have never received any formal education or training programs, we were able to operate various mechanical equipment.

Mr. Speaker, we are becoming very concerned as there are more government cutbacks. There are people who are already residents in the NWT; I think that if we are going to increase employment for these people, they have to receive training. Then there will be more local people taking on jobs that open up in the communities. I think that we should be pursuing this with more vigour in the future, so that our young people and our local residents are receiving the training and are being given the first priority to be hired when jobs open up in their communities and in the north. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is not Friday, but my colleague from Yellowknife South has reminded us all that the Kidney Foundation begins its drive today. I would like to recall for Members that probably the most famous person in the Northwest Territories with kidney problems was a man called Albert Johnson, who lead the RCMP on a merry chase in the 1930s. In the fall of 1931, Mr. Speaker, he went into the store in Fort McPherson and purchased himself a whole case of Dodd's kidney pills; a total of 550 kidney pills. I have often thought, when I read about this man, that although you had kidney problems, with the right kind of help you can do superhuman things. In fact, he proved himself to be a person who had tremendous physical resilience despite the fact that he had this impairment, this difficulty. I often thought that if he had not had that problem, they would probably still be looking

for him because it did slow him down a little bit. I just added this little bit of northern trivia, Mr. Speaker, to just remind us that there is a fund that is established to help people with kidney problems and it is possible to lead a good life with assistance. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Hear, hear,

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I rose to complain of the excessive price increase in gasoline at the sole retail outlet in Iqaluit. The president of the company of Byers Gaz Bar, Mr. Charles Asselin, called me this morning from Montreal to inform me that the price change to 77 cents a litre was the result of a miscalculation and was done without the president's knowledge and that, accordingly, the price would be reduced to 76.1 cents per litre effective this morning.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, this issue has caused great concern to many of my constituents, especially hunters and people who live on the land. Although I am pleased with today's small rollback in prices, I wish to inform this House that this incident has now caused me to focus on and pursue two other issues which have emerged: firstly, whether the mark-up on gasoline prices by this sole vendor in Iqaluit is excessive; and, whether there are any limits which can be imposed on a monopoly in a isolated Arctic community.

I have learned that gasoline is purchased by the local gas station in Iqaluit for 49.76 cents per litre. The present mark-up charged on gasoline in Iqaluit, even with today's lowered prices, is over 26 cents per litre. When the gas bar last changed hands in May 1992, the mark-up was then only 13 cents a litre and gas has not increased significantly in cost since then.

I will still be asking the Minister of Safety and Public Services to pursue what avenues are available to review the fairness of these mark-ups.

Mr. Speaker, I have one more point I would like to make, but I will need to request unanimous consent. to conclude.

The Member for Iqaluit is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Continue, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Secondly, I have received alarming complaints from constituents that in the last week certain customers have noticed that they have been charged three to five cents more at the cash register than the price shown on the pumps. This is another matter I will ask our Minister of Safety and Public Services to look into. Mr. Speaker, the cost of gasoline in Iqaluit affects all segments of our local economy, from the cost of taxis, to the cost of five gallons of gas for a hunter, to government services.

As a result of the miscalculated price increase earlier this week, as a result of discrepancies between what is charged at the pumps to certain customers and what is charged at the cash register, and as a result of questions being asked about excessive mark-ups, many of my constituents are not convinced they are being treated fairly. With help from our government, through their good offices and the federal government, I will be pursuing these questions with vigour. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to say a few things about the price of gas and other fuels. I would like to thank my friend, the Member for Iqaluit, who is concerned about this very important item. In my constituency many Inuit live by hunting and trapping alone because of the lack of employment. They have to use a lot of gas, and they have to work very hard to obtain enough gas so they can go hunting to pursue their lifestyle and to gather food. They need gas to obtain food for their families. The price of gas is going to increase the hardships placed on hunters who pursue a traditional lifestyle.

The people who live by farming in the south receive subsidies from the federal government. By receiving subsidies for fuel, they are able to make a better living. This has never been done in the north, even though we have people who live by hunting alone. They have never received any such subsidy. This has to change and, because the price of gas is increasing very rapidly, we have to pursue this change with the federal government.

Those people who have to support families and who are unemployed are going to face increased hardship. I want this government to look at these people and what kinds of improvements and solutions can help them, so this way of living can be better in the future for our residents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Pudluk. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Dent.

Thank you. The Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Today, I would like to talk about the significance of winter roads and how it impacts the residents in my constituency. Yesterday, the Minister of Transportation stated that all winter roads will be officially closing on March 15th. I believe this is a result of the current financial restraints all governments are experiencing. However, Mr. Speaker, one very important factor has been overlooked in the decision to close winter roads early: the people who will be directly affected by this decision.

In my constituency, there are three communities that depend on these winter roads: Nahanni Butte, Jean Marie River and Trout Lake. There are other communities in the Northwest Territories that have winter roads as well. As a result, the residents of these communities have incorporated winter roads into their lifestyle as a normal way of life in small communities. With that in mind, Mr. Speaker, arrangements are made in the communities around the opening and closing of these winter roads. Arrangements such as making one last trip to shop for supplies for the homes, camps and hunting; and, on the community level, the restocking of stores; the resupply of fuel for the schools and government buildings; the transfer in and out of community building materials; heavy equipment for projects; and so forth. So, you see, Mr. Speaker, winter roads are much more than the highway maintenance contracts.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform the House that these communities are victims of circumstance. For example, Jean Marie River; from 1988 to 1994, the closure of these roads were April 5th, April 7th, April 4th, April 1st and April 3rd, respectively. So you see the move to close the roads earlier is going to have a significant impact on these communities.

In Trout Lake, respectively from 1988 to 1994, you have April 5th closure, April 7th, March 30th, April 4th, March 24th, March 24th and March 31st. So you have significant impact on that area.

Mr. Speaker, I am out of time. I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The Member for Nahendeh is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mr. Antoine.

The last community I represent, Nahanni Butte, the closure dates from 1988 to 1994 respectively are March 31st, April 7th, March 30th, April 4th, March 22nd, March 27th and March 28th. As you can see here, as well in this community, the closure on March 15th will have a big effect.

On the radio report this morning, Mr. Speaker, the chief from Jean Marie River indicated that once the road closes, as they have no stores, they have to charter to Fort Simpson to buy supplies. A one-way charter is $220, so if you're going to go shopping for your family you're looking at a total of $440 round trip just to go shopping. You have 80 to 90 people in that community so you're looking at a significant impact on their budget in that community. With Trout Lake being further away, you're looking at a substantially higher plane fare. Nahanni Butte also has this problem.

Mr. Speaker, the winter road is a vital link for the residents. In particular, the month of March is the most important month for winter roads in communities because it is this month that residents make their trips to Fort Simpson and Hay River to shop one last time and save as much money as possible. If these closures go ahead on March 15th, then many residents will suffer due to the fact that they cannot afford to charter planes to shop for supplies and food. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform this House that the Pauktuutit Inuit Women's Association will be holding their annual general meeting in Inuvik next week from March 6th to March 10th. The theme of their annual general meeting will be community development.

The 58 to 60 delegates will be doing their regular business and also participating in a series of workshops. One of the key focuses of their workshops is the opportunities in the fashion and clothing industry.

Pauktiitut has been very vocal and very active in women's issues, and very proactive in the area of family violence and child care. Today I want to wish all the delegates a safe journey to Inuvik. I hope that they enjoy Inuvik's hospitality and have very fruitful discussions. Mahsi.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, every day when I pick up a paper, I'm reading more terrible stories about child sexual abuse. Today in the Globe and Mail, there is a whole article about the Kingsclear report in New Brunswick where dozens of kids over a long period of time were sexually abused at a training school where homeless kids and emotionally disturbed kids were sent. The authorities, for 30 years, didn't listen to their pleas.

Here in the Northwest Territories, as we all know, child sexual abuse is a very serious problem. It has only been in the last few years that it has been getting the recognition it deserves. I'm not sure if what we're seeing reported now is the tip of the iceberg, or if the full magnitude of the problem is becoming obvious to us.

But the reality is, it is happening here in the territories at a very alarming rate. I guess one of the saddest aspects of child sexual abuse is kids who are abused tend to become abusers and the cycle continues generation after generation after generation. No healthy society in the history of the world has ever condoned child sexual abuse. Unfortunately, in the majority of cases, it is men who perpetrate these offences. To me, a man who abuses a child is not a man; he's a moral coward. No crime is more unnatural or despicable than preying on innocent, trusting children.

I think all of us have a responsibility to stand up and be counted and, as leaders, to state in no uncertain terms that we will not stand for or condone child sexual abuse in our society. There is one organization, I think, that is doing a very useful job in this area and those are the people who have put together the Kids' Help Phone line.

Mr. Speaker, if I could seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The Member for Yellowknife North is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you. There will be a bowl-a-thon this Saturday night supporting the Kids' Help Phone line. The number is 1-800-668-6868. Mr. Morin, Mr. Dent, Mr. Whitford and myself have been collecting pledges, and I just wanted to thank the Members in the House for their generosity. I think just about every Member in the House has supported the MLAs' team at the bowl-a-thon. I would like you all to think just for a moment about what this help line means.

If these kids in New Brunswick had had a number they could have phoned, perhaps they wouldn't have lived in terror for years and years. Perhaps somebody would have reached out to help them. In Canada, we now have a phone line where kids who feel alone, feel terrified, who are abused in the dark and in secret, now have a lifeline to get out of the horrific situations they find themselves in. I think everybody in this House fully supports the objectives of the Kids' Help Phone line, and I'm sure everybody here hopes that the bowl-a-thon is a big success to raise money for this very worthwhile cause. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to commend many of the non-profit organizations in my constituency. Mr. Speaker, it has been brought to my attention that there are 24 organizations in my constituency that often request permission to hold bingos and request permission for approval of bingo licences. We all know that many of these bingos are held for good reasons and to help many different objectives that different organizations are attempting to achieve.

In my community, there are many organizations that hold TV bingos. However, there are two nights a week where bingos are held in a hall. As we all know, when bingos are held in a bingo hall many people smoke in the hall. Mr. Speaker, I know that because I occasionally go to bingos...

...and occasionally smoke.

I don't occasionally smoke, though. I don't enjoy inhaling second-hand smoke. However, I want the public to know that many of the organizations in Fort Smith are now holding smoke-free bingos.

---Applause

I commend them for that. In closing, I would like to not only commend them, but encourage other communities to take on the challenge of holding smoke-free bingos; just for the health of it. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize a former Yellowknife city councillor, Ben MacDonald, now working for the Union of Northern Workers.

---Laughter

---Applause

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Whitford.

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Pudluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the course of their duties, Ministers travel to different parts of the NWT. This gives the rest of the local MLAs a chance to raise local concerns and issues. Can the Premier advise this House of what travel has been planned for Ministers over the next month? Thank you.

Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, I know there are some activities the Ministers will be travelling to. I don't have the list here. During the two-week break I plan to be travelling up the Mackenzie Valley with the Power Corporation. I also intend to take part in addressing Pauktuutit. I also have to make a trip over to the Keewatin to attend a health board meeting. There are a number of other Ministers who will be travelling for different meetings. I will be able to provide that, I just don't have it in front of me at the moment.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ballantyne.

I have a question for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. Mr. Speaker, my question is regarding the recent federal budget. My understanding is the EDA program will be curtailed this year, with a very good possibility that it will be ended in another year. What is the status of the economic development agreement with the federal government? Thank you.

Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we have taken a close look at the Budget Address that was given the other day. It appears that on April 1st, the EDA will be cut to the tune of $2.8 million. It will be sunsetted April 1, 1996. That is correct.

Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you. Perhaps the Minister could explain to this House what steps he is going to take to deal with the fact that there will be $2.8 million less in the next fiscal year.

Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is unfortunate because EDA dollars are 30-cent dollars to this government and 70-cent dollars to the feds. We are currently reviewing the dollars we have left over and trying to analyze how we are going to manage without this $3 million. I am not in a position at this time to be able to give a definitive response to the Member as to what the overall impact is going to be. I could say I think it is going to be significant. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with a $2.8 million reduction and the program ending the year after, we have a big hole in our economic development approaches here in the Northwest Territories. We have a number of economic development programs and the federal government has a number of economic development programs, outside of the EDA. Has the Minister gotten into any discussions as to how we can possibly make what remaining programs are left more efficient and perhaps be able to deliver a lot of the programs that we will lose through the cessation of the EDA?

Mr. Todd.

I have been in discussions for some months now with Mr. Axworthy and Mr. Irwin with respect to programs like community futures, the old CAEDs program and some of the duplication that has been going on across the Northwest Territories. I have been trying to work with them to see if there is a possibility that we could access programs under the Department of Economic Development. We have gone as far as to say if they gave us community futures, we believe we could run it without any additional administrative costs. So there are intense discussions under way with respect to that.

It is my understanding from Mr. Irwin's office that they are looking at a whole new aboriginal/non-aboriginal program that would try to amalgamate some of the existing programs. We are trying to influence how that document finally comes out. We are optimistic that there is going to be some provision within the new program that comes out of Mr. Irwin's office for the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think it is very important that these programs are amalgamated and that the territorial government, in partnership with aboriginal organizations, start running them all. Is the Minister prepared to, in cooperation with his Cabinet colleagues, put together an approach to the federal government that any economic development program, in any department, is repatriated to the north and have our government, in partnership with aboriginal organizations, run them in the most beneficial way for northerners?

Mr. Todd.

Mr. Speaker, that is what we are attempting to do, not only myself, but my honourable colleague, Mr. Nerysoo, the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. We are taking the coordinated approach. We are suggesting, in our discussions with the federal government, that we try to amalgamate some of these programs so there is no duplication, particularly in administration. We are out there with $5,000 grants and we are administering that. Community futures is out there. We are suggesting that this government is prepared to be the distribution arm to these programs. We haven't reached an arrangement right now, we are working very hard at it and hopefully we will be able to conclude some arrangement in the coming months. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Under Members' statements, I made a brief statement this afternoon. The question I have is to the Government Leader. I am not in conflict with the people from the south who are employed in the Northwest Territories at the present time, but there have been a lot of contractors who have come to the communities in the north to work. I know that the aboriginal people have the first priority for employment in their communities. Has there been any training given to the aboriginal people to have more jobs in their own communities and in the north? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, yes, there are a number of training programs that are available to aboriginal residents of the Northwest Territories. I believe the problem the honourable Member is referring to is that, from time to time, the major contractor is a southern operator or an operator outside of the community, and perhaps the local people don't have the opportunity to get the jobs that they really should be getting; the opportunity to make a few dollars, which is limited in many communities.

The area in construction that I think the Minister of Education would be best able to elaborate on is the building and learning strategy which is coupled with construction jobs and construction contracts that are given out, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat, supplementary.

(Translation) This is a question to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. We know that the Government Leader said that employment and training is being planned at the present time. I would like to know how long it is going to take to get the program to train the people for employment. Thank you.

Mr. Pudlat, this is a new question and I am going to allow other Members to ask questions, but I will let you ask this one to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to our colleague. We have been working on a building and learning strategy since 1992. The whole intention is that through Cabinet approval, we intended to maximize training opportunities for local residents. I have been working in conjunction with the Minister of the Housing Corporation and the Minister of Public Works and Services.

The strategy has included providing training opportunities at all levels of building occupations, such as trades helpers, trades workers, supervisors, project managers and contractors. We have over 100 local residents who are receiving construction training in Baker Lake, Rankin Inlet, Pangnirtung, Igloolik, Snare Lake, Wha Ti, Fort Simpson, Fort Providence, Gjoa Haven and Coppermine. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Transportation. It is with regard to the winter road closing; the decision that this department has made to close the winter roads in my area and other areas by March 15th. Prior to this session, Mr. Speaker, I toured my constituency by vehicle. I visited Nahanni Butte, Trout Lake and Jean Marie River by road, and the road is in very good shape. It is a good investment and the people are enjoying a good return on their dollar by using this road at the present time. The road is going to be closing in about two weeks; 24 days at the most. If you take the average, it will be closing about two weeks sooner than it normally does.

The argument that I have heard from the Minister was...Yesterday, he mentioned Fisheries and Oceans about five times. So my office called Hay River and they said they had nothing to do with that decision. The only reference I could see is that in 1991, the department faced charges for two creeks that were not dug out before that by Fisheries. So the argument for that I could see, but the decision is for the whole winter road system. There are different areas and different regions that have different climates. I would like to ask the Minister if he could reconsider that in light of the fact that there are different regions, that some regions needed additional money in the past and if his department looked at these factors when they made this decision to do a universal closure all at the same time. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Transportation, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think I did say yesterday that while we did have some problems with Fisheries and Oceans, the primary reason for the closure was because of OPPLAN cuts. However, I do recognize the importance of this issue and I did meet with the deputy minister earlier today. I don't have any more money; it is just that simple at this stage of the game. However, I am prepared to try to work with the communities and perhaps the communities could assist us. They do have some infrastructure money that has been given to them from other departments. If they could perhaps work with us we might be able to do something. But at the present time, it would be wrong of me to say to the Member that I could extend these openings, unless I had new fiscal resources.

It does give me an opportunity to say one thing in slight defence of what we're doing. I did also ask the department what the average opening date was, over the last five years, for these roads. The average opening for Nahanni Butte was December 25th; we opened Nahanni Butte on December 1st. That is 24 days earlier. The average opening in Trout Lake was December 29th; this year, we opened it on December 22nd, seven days earlier. In Fort Wrigley, we opened it one day earlier than what we have done on average. We are attempting to do the best we can with the resources we have.

We understand that these roads are not just highways, they are a way of life, they are a way getting building materials in, cost-effective food in. Jean Marie River is an example where we know they need some help. I want to assure the honourable Member we will do what we can. I am trying quickly to see if there is some way we can look at this, but right now I don't have the fiscal resources available. Maybe through some joint cooperation with the communities we can see if there's any way, if at all possible, to extend the closing of the ice roads.

Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The winter roads have closed in the past at different times. The whole road doesn't deteriorate at the same rate. There are northern and southern areas with different climatic regions. Some of the roads in the system go through major lakes and rivers that overflow north of Wrigley quite often and there are major problems in that area. In some areas, like Nahanni Butte and Jean Marie, there are no major rivers to cross and there are no problems with overflow. It doesn't take much work to keep those roads open.

What I'm asking the Minister is if his department has looked at each highway system specifically to determine, historically, how much additional work has gone into each section. I think the decision was made by the department to try to save money, but I would like his department to consider looking at the roads separately to see how much money was spent in each area in the past. I think some of these road systems didn't require much additional money to keep open until they start to thaw.

People in the communities know that once the roads start to thaw, not to use them any more. But shutting down a perfectly good road on March 15th, which you can use for another two weeks, is not reasonable at this time. Thank you.

Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What I've asked the department this morning was what our liability would be if we leave the roads open without additional maintenance costs. In other words, if they would be still accessible and there are no storms, et cetera. I haven't got an answer yet but when I do, I assure the honourable Member -- because I know this is an important issue to his constituency -- that he will be the first person I speak with. We are looking at what our liability would be if we left the roads open, if weather conditions are such that it would be okay to do that. We are looking at that, yes.

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to the Minister of Transportation. This morning on a CBC radio program, one of Mr. Todd's employees, Mr. Bernie Cassidy, director of highway operations in Hay River, said by shutting down the entire system it would save approximately $240,000. This is for the whole system. The other thing he said was the way they would probably close the roads would be by placing snow fills across the access points to the roads or putting up barricades. Is this the intention of the department? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Todd.

I suspect that my discussion with the deputy minister was after Mr. Cassidy's comments in the news. The position of the department right now is to close the roads on March 15th. If that's how we technically close them, I suppose that's correct. However, again, I want to say to the honourable Member that I've asked the department if we can leave the roads open, what our liabilities will be. Do you know what I mean? That's what I'm asking for right now. There's no additional money to maintain them, but I am checking to see if we can leave them open and if, at that time of year, they would still be sufficiently solid so people can still use them. I haven't received an answer yet to that. Hopefully, by later on today or tomorrow I should.

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just one more supplementary because it is an important issue to me. I wanted to say that I have a public announcement by the Department of Transportation from the Deh Cho Drum of February 28th. I notice these ads were in all the newspapers throughout the north, probably at substantial cost. I notice that signs were put up at these highways too, at substantial cost. These costs could have been diverted to keeping the highways open for maybe another week or so.

I just wanted to say that the weather at this time of the year, in my constituency anyway, is cool in the evening, without very much snow and with ice. So, the roads are still usable for quite some time, with very minimal maintenance. I wanted to ask the Minister if his department is going to be looking at that as well and, if they're putting up barricades, if these barricades could be movable so if the road is still passable people could use these roads at their own risk.

Mr. Todd.

I asked the deputy minister this morning in discussions with him to take a look at this to determine what our liabilities would be. When we come to a satisfactory decision, then we will determine whether there will be portable or permanent barricades, or whatever. There may, in fact, be no barricades if we can do what is being suggested. I'm hopeful that we can have some resolution to the issue by tomorrow. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. During the review of the main estimates the Minister indicated that there is going to be a review of the tourism industry organizations. I understand that a call for proposals for a comprehensive review of the tourism industry organizations was advertised in the papers and the closing date was January 4, 1995. Can the Minister advise us as to who was the successful bidder on this call for proposals?

Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can't remember the name of the company, but I know the proprietor is a gentleman called Mike Freeland, I believe. I think it's Qaivvik Ltd., but I'm not sure. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Does the Minister know who is working with Mike Freeland in doing this contract? Does he have partners or associates working with him on this contract?

Mr. Todd.

I'm sorry, Mr. Speaker. I don't have the corporate structure of Mr. Freeland's company. I do know that it is a northern company and that he will have extensive consultations with the players in the industry, from Inuvik to Iqaluit, and he will bring forward a report which will hopefully reflect the changes that industry and this ministry want very quickly -- because we want to do this reasonably quickly -- I believe by the end of March. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I understand that a couple of his associates in this contract are from outside the Northwest Territories. I understand one is a company called Exceleration Corp. from Calgary and another associate is from Copenhagen, Denmark.

Shame.

A company called Hoff and Overgaard. I'm very curious, with what the Minister told us -- that this is a purely northern company and doing a review of our northern tourism industry -- whether or not the rumour I heard is correct.

Mr. Todd.

I can't speculate on rumours. I can only tell you that perhaps it would be better for me to take the question as notice and report back to the honourable Member. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Todd. With regard to the Minister's response, I would like to tell the Members that Minister's can't confirm a rumour. Ministers can only respond to facts. Final supplementary...I'm sorry, Mr. Koe, I believe the Minister took your question as notice. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Renewable Resources. I would like to ask the Minister if he can confirm, on the recent contract awarded to Buffalo Airways for addressing fire suppression this year in the Northwest Territories, whether the contract requirement called for the usage of DC-4s or DC-6s. Thank you.

Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe the question would be better answered by the Department of Public Works and Services.

With regard to Renewable Resources, we have indicated to the department which is the appropriate department to hand out the contract, that our requirements for firefighting should be able to meet the needs of the fire situations that we have in the Northwest Territories. To my understanding, we have not given a clear indication as to what type of aircraft will be required in terms of firefighting. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister this: is it the responsibility of the department that addresses fire suppression to determine what type of aircraft they require to address fire suppression? Is it not his department's mandate? Thank you.

Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, it is the responsibility of the Department of Renewable Resources. However, we gave a minimum standard that is required for firefighting in the Northwest Territories that we would be willing to accept. This was relayed to the Department of Public Works. We showed that DC-4s, which are at the present time being proposed to be used for the summer, will be sufficient and will be able to carry out the firefighting in the Northwest Territories this coming summer. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess the Minister has now answered the first question I had posed to him.

Mr. Speaker, on Tuesday I tabled a document in this House; an evaluation of the appropriateness of the current fire suppression methodology, study 8. The department has expended an excessive amount of money to get this study, I think to the tune of just about $225,000. In this study, section 8 is on DC-4s versus DC-8s. There is a list of disadvantages of using DC-4s over DC-6s. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask why the Minister has allowed his department not to adhere to the study recommendations that his department commissioned last year. Thank you.

Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The study that was conducted by a firm which was contracted to consult with various contractors in the Northwest Territories as well as the people in the Northwest Territories was exactly that, a consultant who would make recommendations to the government, of which the government has the option to take, to use as they so please. This is the way that I, as the Minister of Renewable Resources, took the recommendations. I took them as recommendations, have taken a look at the requirements of firefighting management in Fort Smith. I was advised that it would be acceptable to use DC-4s. Thank you.

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So the Minister is basically indicating that the recommendations from this consulting firm may be used whenever he determines they should be used, as he has indicated, as the Minister. I would like to ask, after spending just about $225,000 commissioning this report -- and this report basically indicates that the extra cost for using DC-4s would be $500,000 more -- why is he expending public funds on a report which recommended against using DC-4s? Thank you.