The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm introducing this motion as chairman of Caucus. I would like to speak briefly to the motion which I feel is fairly self-explanatory. The term of the 12th Assembly is not due to expire until November 14th of this year. That would mean that the general election across the territories to elect the 13th Assembly would be in January 1996. As Members are aware, Mr. Speaker, January in any part of the territories is not a good time for a general election.

Mr. Speaker, as the 11th Assembly did in 1991, a similar motion was introduced so that all residents of the territories were aware, early, when the general election would be held. As you aware, there is a weakness in our system, as we still don't have the power to dissolve ourselves and go to the people. This authority, under the Northwest Territories Act, still lies with the federal government. Therefore, we are required to advise the federal government of the majority will of this

Assembly concerning dissolution and a time for the next election.

Mr. Speaker, the date for the general election proposed in the motion of October 16th would permit this government and the Assembly to endeavour to complete important initiatives that have been ongoing for a number of years. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That concludes my comments on the motion.

---Applause

Thank you. The seconder of the motion is Mr. Pollard.

Question.

To the motion. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the motion on the floor calls for dissolution of the 12th Assembly by August 31, 1995 in order to permit a general election to be held on October 16, 1995. Mr. Speaker, unless this motion is amended, I want to let the public know that I will be voting against it. I'm opposed to this motion as it is presently worded, Mr. Speaker, because I think it proposes an election timetable that is very wrong; an election timetable that will damage the ability of this House to respond to some of the most critical fiscal and leadership challenges that we have ever confronted in the Northwest Territories.

There are many reasons for arriving at this conclusion, Mr. Speaker, and I would like to take a few minutes to outline why I'm so opposed to the notion of delaying the territorial election until the fall, when it will be too late for real change and real leadership. But, first, I want to be very clear that I've come to my conclusions on this matter after a lot of careful consideration, research and discussions with many people, particularly my constituents.

Mr. Speaker, I know that my honourable colleague from Yellowknife Centre made a Member's statement on February 20th, during which he argued that: "Any move to have a spring election very soon would be seen as opportunism and an attempt by MLAs to catch the opposition with their pants down." Those are the words he used. He even said that the people of Yellowknife feel that Members who support the idea of a spring election are guilty of sleazy tactics.

Ohh.

Mr. Speaker, I did not appreciate those comments then and I still don't appreciate them. In fact, those comments are unparliamentary.

Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Point of order, Mr. Lewis.

Point Of Order

I'm very familiar with the use of the word "sleazy," Mr. Speaker. I know the English language very well and the word "sleazy," is only unparliamentary if a Member uses it in the context of calling another Member sleazy or, in fact,

dishonouring Members of this House by accusing them of that kind of behaviour. I have too much respect for the people in this Assembly to ever call a Member sleazy.

Hear, hear.

And, therefore, I would like you to consider my point of order, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. The Member for Thebacha has indicated that the word "sleazy" is unparliamentary but I think it is only unparliamentary if it's said to another Member. Mr. Lewis is correct. I cannot make a ruling on the point of order until I see the Hansard when Mr. Lewis made his Member's statement, then I can determine the point of order. So, I will take the point of order under advisement. Continue, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are some honourable Members interested in seeing this motion to hold a fall election defeated; in fact, I believe many of them, because they believe there are valid and pressing reasons to seek an earlier mandate from the people of their constituencies. But, how many have the resolve to stand up and risk being labelled as having questionable motives or risk having Yellowknife-based media interpret their stands as "running scared during an election"?

Ohh.

I just can't believe that. However, even in the face of these risks, Mr. Speaker, I'll be encouraging all Members of this House to have the courage to face the facts and to recognize that if this motion passes the new Assembly will be locked into an election timetable that just isn't in the best interests of the people of the Northwest Territories.

The facts are that more than at any time in our past, this House is facing a serious fiscal crisis that must be addressed. We need an election timetable that will not prevent us from making the decisions that have to be made. Mr. Speaker, we all know about the financial situation we're in. Since 1993-94, we have moved from an accumulated surplus of $56 million to a projected accumulated deficit of $38 million. With the release of Mr. Martin's federal budget last Monday, we know that the situation is only going to become more difficult. There will likely be cuts in our federal financing in the neighbourhood of $8 million this year, and next year there will be a reduction of over $50 million.

On top of that, the Standing Committee on Finance is suggesting the need for a balanced budget; legislation to come into effect in 1998. This means that in less than three years we need to find ways to trim $88 million from our current spending values.

Mr. Speaker, it's my belief that the Government of the Northwest Territories has never faced a challenge like this before. In my view, next year's budget process will be the most critical one that we have ever undertaken in the history of the government. Yet, if this motion passes without an amendment, we will be locked into a fall election and a new government will not take place until some time in November at the earliest. So that means that the new Cabinet will only have two months to finalize the most critical budget in northern history, a budget where they'll need to contend with a $58 million cut in federal funding.

Not only does it sound pretty dangerous, I don't think it's in the best interest of sound fiscal leadership. Mr. Speaker, what bothers me is that not only will it be my children and your children, but it will be the children of all honourable Members in this House who have to live with the consequences if we do not leave ourselves enough time to complete the thoughtful planning that now has to take place. The alternative, of course, is to hold the election in the spring. This timetable will put a new government in place. In a month and a half, the OPPLAN process will begin and will provide our new Cabinet the months of July, August, September, October, November, December and January to finalize next year's budget; the most important budget that has ever had to be developed in the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, I was pleased yesterday when the Minister of Finance indicated that he would be consulting with community leaders and with the public at large to collect their ideas on spending and other fiscal priorities for the upcoming year. I applaud my honourable colleague for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine, for encouraging the Minister to do this -- even though CBC neglected to mention that the consultation process was his idea in the first place.

But I must wonder how on earth the Ministers plan to carry out these consultations in the midst of an election campaign.

Mr. Speaker, as I've said before, we have to face the facts. If the Minister undertakes these consultations immediately prior to the fall election, the process will be seen as a purely political exercise and I don't know if we'll be able to divide the attention of consulting on one hand and campaigning on the other. These consultations will be extremely important. In order for them to be credible, we must ensure that there is adequate time and that there will be consistency on how the process is followed through.

Mr. Speaker, a fall election as established in Motion 11-12(7) simply would not allow sufficient time for this process to be carried out properly. Mr. Speaker, honourable Members know that in this House we have other significant government initiatives on our plate as well. They know that supporters of this motion have suggested that a fall election is necessary because important work like negotiations of the northern accord negotiations of the federal/territorial discussion on formula financing could not be finished by the spring.

While I think, as I said before, facing the facts -- and the fact is that this is highly unlikely, probably even impossible, that the northern accord and a new federal funding formula will be concluded by the fall of 1995. Indeed, we have to ask ourselves whether it's better to have these key arrangements finalized by a government that has almost exhausted its mandate and will be unable to be held accountable after agreements are finalized.

Mr. Speaker, we shouldn't forget about the transfer of the responsibility of Arctic A airports, scheduled now to proceed in July. And we should remember that to give northerners more control over key transportation services, it will represent about a 30 per cent increase in the budget required by Transportation.

So we have to ask ourselves whether it is wise to initiate the implementation phase of this transfer under the Minister of Transportation, only for it to be interrupted three months later when a new Cabinet is selected by the 13th Assembly.

That is why this is exactly the situation that will be created if this motion passes and the election is delayed until the fall. This is more or less what happened in the health transfer, and we've been facing the consequences ever since. Did we learn nothing from the problems that we've experienced with health planning?

Mr. Speaker, there are many other reasons why a fall election is not in the best interest of the Northwest Territories. As I said in my Member's statement, we know there is presently a vacant seat in this House occasioned by the resignation of our former colleague, Mr. Arvaluk. We also know the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act requires the Commissioner to issue a writ for a by-election. The Commissioner has no discretion, it appears, in this matter. Section 9(1) states that she shall issue the writ unless it is provided in section 9(2) the Assembly is scheduled to expire within six months. This motion doesn't allow us to expire in six months.

Mr. Speaker, to hold a by-election in order to fill this vacancy would be expensive and I don't believe in the interests of the people of Aivilik or of the Northwest Territories. Yet, unless the Commissioner acts, the matter could be challenged and we could be forced to proceed with a by-election.

However, my constituents have told me that they're aware of these issues and they know the pros and cons of a fall election and of the springtime alternative. And they're telling me that when all is said and done, they feel that now is the time for the 12th Assembly to seriously consider a spring election. Some are telling me that there will be resistance because Cabinet Members may wish to fulfil their term. I know honourable Members who have already declared that they don't want to stand for re-election, and they may be concerned that they want to finish their term. However, I don't think those are reasons to base our election timetable on.

Mr. Speaker, I want to emphasize again and again, that honourable Members of this House are here to do their best for the people of the Northwest Territories, not what's best for ourselves.

Hear, hear.

---Applause

Not to look at fulfilling the term with regard to payment and a nice summer break, as Members have said; a summer where we don't have to worry about...

Shame, shame, shame.

...where we can get a paycheque. Those are the types of comments I've been hearing from Members...

Shame.

...and I think that's shameful. You're right.

Terrible, terrible. Shameful.

However, Mr. Speaker, I believe that in the interests of sound leadership -- and we all call ourselves leaders -- we must ensure that there's sufficient time for the important fiscal course that will need to be set during our next budget cycle.

I'm not willing to delay a much-needed election until the fall, that's why I'm voting against the motion.

Point Of Privilege

I have a point of privilege, Mr. Speaker. I hear cackling across the room and Members have suggested that I resign. I've been elected as a Member to represent my constituents and I will fulfil that until the day of the next election. So I ask the Member for an apology. Thank you.

The chair didn't hear the comment nor am I aware if it's recorded as a comment, so the Member doesn't have a point of privilege. Continue, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I heard the comment and I find that shameful of the Minister to be speaking in that format. However, Mr. Speaker, I want to close my remarks by indicating that, as I had said, fiscally we're in an era where we have to go and ask people where they want cuts. Not a next election, but of what they want to see happen. With that, I would like to take the time to propose an amendment to this particular motion. Thank you.

Mrs. Marie-Jewell, you can proceed with your amendment.

Motion To Amend Motion 11-12(7), Defeated

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Baffin Central, that the motion be amended by deleting August 31, 1995 and substituting April 27, 1995;

And further, by deleting October 16, 1995 and substituting June 12, 1995. Thank you.

Mrs. Marie-Jewell, your motion to amend Motion 11-12(7) is in order. To the amendment, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this amendment to the motion would result in a territorial election being held in the middle of June rather than late in October as proposed in the main motion. As I said, I want to advise the House that proposing this amendment is

done for a number of reasons and I'll just repeat some of my reasons that I had initially indicated in the motion.

First, it would provide the new government with sufficient time to complete the necessary fiscal planning that will be necessary to bring forward a budget that adequately contends with the federal cuts and other financial challenges that must be addressed in the upcoming year.

Second, it provides the people of the Northwest Territories to provide this House with a renewed mandate; one that will be necessary to legitimately proceed with finalization and implementation of key government initiatives like the northern accord, the airport transfers and the negotiations of a new funding formula arrangement with the Government of Canada.

Mr. Speaker, I want to state up front that I'm fully aware that this amendment may cause some concerns for my honourable colleagues, particularly my honourable colleagues from the eastern Arctic, because I know that spring months are important for harvesting families, family and cultural renewal. Some Members who follow this debate might suggest that it would be unfair to community residents if the election date occurs when many families are on the land for spring hunting. Yet, if Motion 12-12(7) passes without an amendment, the fact is that much of the election campaign will still be occurring during this important season for the Members from the west. However, whether they're planning to stand for re-election or not, honourable Members of this House will know that in many communities electioneering will take place both throughout the spring and the summer. No matter when the actual voting date is scheduled this year, the absence of some sectors of the community is a factor in this election. I think it will be less disruptive for the communities. It will ensure that each candidate's message is delivered more clearly to voters. And if the campaign is confined to the period from the end of April to mid-June, the process will not be dragged out and delayed until October.

As I said, Mr. Speaker, for years in the Dene communities they have found that fall elections are just as intrusive, I guess, as some of the people who say spring elections are for the eastern Arctic Members. The fall election for many of the Dene and the Metis are important time frames when many of the Members go out hunting moose and harvesting berries, I know it's my time to hunt chickens, and it does take away our time from campaigning. However, Mr. Speaker, I guess the main benefit to amending this motion is to allow for a spring election that would provide more time for the new government to craft a budget that takes into account the fiscal realities of our situation. We have to ensure that there's adequate time for planning, for consulting and for preparing. We simply cannot cheat the budgetary process by cramming it into the short time frame that a fall election would create. At the same time, I think we have to recognize that in order to face the challenges that confront us now we must have the full confidence of the people of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, with that, I believe that I look at honourable Members and ask them to really face the facts, look at our fiscal restraints, look at our fiscal picture and seriously consider the best and the betterment of the people of the Northwest Territories that we should look at seriously considering supporting an earlier election rather than later. Thank you.

Thank you. The seconder, Ms. Mike. I would like to remind the Members to speak to the motion itself, not to make comparisons with the fall election when we have an amendment with regard to a spring election. Stick to the dates that the amendment is targeted to. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm seconding this motion because it makes sense to call an early election. From what I heard from the federal Minister of Finance, the Honourable Paul Martin's budget speech a few days ago, our government will be getting very large funding cuts from Ottawa in the 1996-97 fiscal year. It will take time for our government to prepare for those cuts. Should we have a spring election, this will allow the new government enough time to properly plan and prepare for these funding cuts. Our government will not be able to make these kinds of cuts in a hurry. If we are to be fair and reasonable and, above all, be a responsible government, then we should allow the new government as much time as possible to decide how to handle the cuts so the impact can be minimal. I see no other way to do this but to have an election sooner rather than later. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. To the amendment. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don't know whether I have the same interest in this matter as other Members since it's no secret that I'm not going to be running again for re-election, but I would like to reassure Mrs. Marie-Jewell that I'm looking forward to a life after politics and I'm not particularly stuck on serving out my term to the last hour.

I think I'm neutral on this issue. What I would like to remind Members is that we debated and discussed this matter at length at our Caucus workshop in Fort Smith last year. And, while I know it wasn't formally announced, Members did agree at that time that we considered the issue of a spring election and decided against it. I think many of us, as I have, have told our constituents -- who have been asking, and that's a lot of questions directed to sitting MLAs now when the election will be -- that it will be in the fall. I think we have to consider that there are other people out there who are considering running in the election this fall, perhaps running against some of us in this room. They are planning their lives and their personal commitments around this fall. I think this amendment, if it passes, will take them by surprise and it will be seen as an advantage to incumbents. That is going to be the reaction from some people. That's the reality.

The other point I'd like to make, Mr. Speaker, is we're not like jurisdictions where there are political parties and the government of the day can call an election as it deems appropriate. For better or for worse -- as Mrs. Marie-Jewell pointed out, I believe, in her remarks -- we have a four-year term set out in our constitution, which is the Northwest Territories Act. That is the law and it can only be abridged in extraordinary circumstances. In fact, as I understand the procedure -- since we have considered holding early elections over the years -- in this Assembly, we would only be able to hold an early election, as proposed in this amendment, if we got approval from the Governor-in-Council, the federal Cabinet. So, even if we were to approve this amendment -- which I will not be supporting for reasons I'll outline -- we would still have to persuade the federal government that there were extraordinary circumstances or reasons to call a spring election.

Now, as I understand from Mrs. Marie-Jewell, what she is suggesting is we have a fiscal crisis and that is one of the main reasons we should hold an early election. Can you imagine after Paul Martin's budget and after the reaction to it -- and it has been seen as changing irrevocably the nature of the federal government, and is going to result in the lay-offs of tens and thousands of public servants -- the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories persuading the Government of Canada that there's a fiscal crisis that should provoke an election? If we're having a fiscal crisis that should provoke an election, then there should also be an election called in Canada because of the fiscal crises facing the Government of Canada.

---Applause

I don't know if that argument will go over big in Ottawa, Mr. Speaker, if we were to make it.

Mr. Speaker, I don't believe there is a justification on the basis of fiscal crisis. I think we need to pay attention to our fiscal situation, as we've done over the last three years. I, frankly, have every confidence that Mr. Pollard will continue to deal with the financial issues responsibly as he's done up to now. I think we have some work to complete in order to lay the ground so the new Assembly can deal responsibly with those fiscal issues. One of the things that we would have to deal with, I think, is balanced budget legislation. Another thing I would like to see us deal with is a thoughtful transition plan. And I would respectfully suggest to Mrs. Marie-Jewell that we are going to need a little more time than her amendment would allow if we are to do that work.

I have listened carefully to her arguments. I think part of her arguments are premised on the fact that new blood will better be able to tackle the current situation. I'm not sure that's true, Mr. Speaker. I believe that every legislature deals with pressing fiscal and other issues, and I would like to suggest that we have been given a mandate to represent our constituents and deal with the current issues of the day. We are not lame; we are alive and well. In fact, I would say we are in full flight. At the moment, we are tackling issues that are on the point of resolution.

Mrs. Marie-Jewell suggests that we need a new Finance Minister to finish the formula financing, that we need a new Energy, Mines...

Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mrs. Marie-Jewell, your point of order.

Point Of Order

Mr. Speaker, my point of order is that the Member is imputing motives which I did not suggest in my remarks. Thank you.

Mr. Patterson.

Can I have order, please. Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, I will withdraw the comments that were offensive, on the condition that Mrs. Marie-Jewell stops heckling me while I'm trying to speak.

---Laughter

---Applause

I would like to also remind the Members to speak to the amendment. Mr. Patterson, you are making a lot of statements with regard to the main motion. Can you try to speak to the amendment itself, because you will have the opportunity at some point to speak to the main motion. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what I infer from the arguments for an early election is that new players are required to deal with the current issues of the day: the formula financing negotiations, the mineral accord and other fiscal issues. I would like to suggest, Mr. Speaker, that if we don't have an early election, as suggested by the amendment, and we continue on, we will be relying on John Pollard who knows Paul Martin, on John Todd who knows Ron Irwin, and on Nellie Cournoyea who knows Jean Chretien, rather than on new players we don't know who will take some time to get up to speed.

Mr. Speaker, I think there's a downside to calling an early election this spring and the downside is we will have new players to deal with the formula financing negotiations, new players to deal with the northern mineral accord, and a new government to respond to the Nunavut Implementation Commission report in March. I feel much more comfortable that we will have a chance of resolving these critical issues based on the tremendous work that has been placed on dealing with them over the past three years. So, I think I agree that we should look at the interests of the people of the Northwest Territories. I don't know if the best interests of the people of the Northwest Territories are served by a sudden and surprising change of players. I agree we're dealing with critical issues. I don't know if it's time to change the coach, the quarterback and your key linebackers when you're coming up to the Grey Cup, Mr. Speaker.

One final comment. The Member for Thebacha referred to the by-election in Aivilik as being an expense that will be incurred if we don't have an early election. Mr. Speaker, I understand that the mayors of the three communities have advised the Premier that they will await the next election, that they're content to be represented through the good offices of the neighbouring MLA, the Honourable John Todd. So I'm not sure that this is a problem affecting that riding.

Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, the Member referred to the law respecting elections, requiring the Commissioner to issue a writ. I believe the Commissioner is required to issue a writ when a seat is declared vacant, but the law is not clear as to when that writ shall spell out an election. The writ could spell out a general election for the fall or a general election earlier.

So I don't think we need to get the issue of the seat in Aivilik mixed up in dealing with this amendment.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I think this would be a sudden surprising unexpected development that would impede the resolution of some very critical issues, rather than enhance the resolution. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. To the motion to amend. Mr. Dent.

No.

To the amendment, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, I think it's healthy that we're having this debate here in the House and not in Caucus. Everybody gets to state their points. I think so far everybody for and against has had valid points. I've given this quite a bit of thought, not just this term but the last couple of terms that I've been part of this Assembly because we've had this debate in one form or another as long as I've been here. Normally, a year before, people agree that they'll have a fall election; then, as they get closer, some people don't want to; and then, we ultimately go back to a fall election.

There are a number of reasons for that. One is with all the pros and cons, the fall seems to be the most convenient time for the greater group of people to have an election. We've had this debate hundreds of times, but it normally comes back to the fall. That's the first point I want to make.

The second point I want to make is we have always gone, as long as I can remember, in four-year cycles. At least when I become an MLA and I vote for the Premier and vote for the Minister of Finance, I expect them to have that traditional four-year mandate to complete their tasks. I think that if we prematurely end that mandate, we're doing an unfair service to the government's opportunity to complete their task. I think you should really judge the government at the conclusion of their four years because, as we all know in politics, especially nowadays, some things take a long time, a lot of work, you have to get to know a lot of people. So a lot of things can happen in the last six months of a government's mandate.

I think arguments can be made on both sides about whether it's an advantage or a disadvantage for incumbents to have an early election or a late election. I think that many of my constituents would find an early election as a surprise and unfair. I'm sure there are a number of others who would say fine, go ahead with it. But I think the majority of my constituents are expecting a fall election because that's what we've had, and any opponents to any of the Yellowknife MLAs are gearing up with a fall election in mind.

Another point that I brought up in this House a number of times is the next government and Legislative Assembly are going to be operating under different parameters. I think the division agenda will drive the next Assembly. I think it's imperative that this government and this Legislative Assembly, for the remainder of their term, finalize as many of these agreements as they possibly can. I think it's going to be more difficult for the next government, with the division agenda driving the Assembly.

I won't go through all the different items on the government's agenda but my colleagues have talked about a northern accord and I think a northern accord is key. I think there is absolutely no chance of getting a northern accord before this summer. Even though the chances after the summer are problematic, at least we have a chance, if we have a fall election, to have a northern accord. There's no doubt in my mind that our Finance Minister will be able to get a formula financing agreement by the summer and I think it would be very unfortunate if the next government came in -- if we had an early election -- without a formula financing agreement in place.

As Mr. Patterson has said, nowadays, without a party system our government really depends on personal contacts with the power brokers in Ottawa. Mr. Pollard has a personal relationship now with Mr. Martin, the Premier has the same with the Prime Minister and it would take months, if not a year or more, for the next Government Leader and Finance Minister to establish the same sort of contacts.

Mr. Speaker, this is just a list of issues that the Financial Management Board Secretariat are trying to do by the summer. They want to: finalize the development and implementation of a GNWT human resource planning strategy in the summer of 1995; implement a pilot employee assistance program in the summer of 1995; complete the consultation process and review of the affirmative action policy in the summer of 1995; review the sexual harassment policy by the fall of 1995; complete a review of the management framework for grants and contributions by the fall of 1995; develop an GNWT informatics plan in accordance with the GNWT informatics strategy by the fall of 1995; develop program evaluation standards in the summer of 1995; and, develop and pilot a new results measurement and reporting approach in the fall of 1995.

I think it's really important that all of these initiatives, which have taken months and sometimes years to develop, get finalized. Because we all know what happens, a new government comes in, there are new priorities and all of this work could be lost. I think it's very, very important that this government is given the time to complete the tasks they have worked on for the last three and a half years. I, for one, think we should stick to our tradition of having an election in the fall, and I will not support this amendment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. To the amendment. Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a brief comment to the amendment. This amendment is one that I will not support either; my reasons being, having an early election by June 12th will cause people to rush around, both the people who will vote and the people who have to get ready to be elected. I know we have been looking at a fall election and my people understand already that the intent is to hold an election in the fall of 1995. People have already accepted that.

If we try to make it different now and change it to June, it is obvious, at least in my constituency and in the surrounding communities, that half of the communities' population will not be in the settlements -- in October, people start returning to the communities -- and people who are out on the land for traditional activities won't be able to be contacted by telephone. So, they wouldn't even be able to vote by proxy. Although they could do it this way: you could use the XBX CBs. In the western Arctic, they're called bush radios. This would be the only way that it could be publicized and people would know who got elected. Even though when you vote, you do it by secret ballot.

Furthermore, the people who are out on the land for recreation or for vacation are taking their holidays and they will be included in the Baffin South MLA's constituency. You could also contact the people by helicopter and bring the ballot box around, but that would be very costly. Because of the difficulties that are occurring, this government is well into the work they have to do and they can continue to pave the way for the work they have to complete. The amendment is one that I will not support because of these reasons. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you. To the amendment. Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (Translation) I'm going to be talking in my native language. There is a proposal now to have an election this spring, on June 12th. That is okay, however, I don't agree with it. So for that reason I am not going to be voting in favour of this.

When I visited the communities I told people that the election will be this fall. By that date it would be exactly four years we've been here, and I had already told them that and now they are saying something different. I wanted to raise this because I don't agree with it. The reason I am saying this is because when we are elected, we are elected for four years and we sit here on behalf of all the people who voted for us. The Ministers and the MLAs are elected for four years.

We have heard the budget report from the federal government and our funding is cut dramatically, by at least $58 million. They informed us that they are not giving us the usual amount. The message we recevied is very serious. A great deal of work has been done to priorize the funding cuts and where and how this money will be spent. Our Finance Minister is familiar with people from Ottawa and has worked well with them. Our leader, Nellie, also works well with the Prime Minister, and some Ministers here know the Ministers from Ottawa. We have received a very important message about our budget and if we have to change things because of this, I think the Ministers here who are familiar with the federal Ministers should be the ones to work on our budget. If we have a spring election and we get new elected Members in here and new elected Ministers put in place, it will be like starting all over. They won't be familiar with the Ministers from Ottawa.

Now we are talking about working towards a new government, they call it the transition plan and they asked the government to develop legislation for us. They told us that they would do this for us, but are able to get on it only this summer. They are also working on a lot of other issues. Ottawa is working with all the different provinces. So for this reason if we hold an election before they work out a transition plan for a new government, and we get new elected Members working before this plan, I think things will get very difficult.

I really don't mind when the elections are held, however, I had already told my constituents that after four years an election will be held in the fall. For that reason, this motion before us saying to have an election this spring in June, I'm not going to be voting in favour of this. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I, too, will not be supporting the motion. I've heard all the arguments expressed by my colleagues who are also not supporting the motion and I agree with most of their comments. I won't be supporting this motion for a very practical reason and that's because in the Beaufort/Delta communities in the month of June, the majority of the people are out spring hunting or fishing; the muskrat season in the Delta closes on June 15th and a lot of the families will still be out at their camps or packing up to come back to town. There's also, in the spring, a danger of floods and other things that could happen. It's very difficult to campaign or have people even care about what's going on in an election campaign if they're out in the bush. People have a democratic right to vote and to be able to cast their ballot on election day, therefore I do not support a spring election.

Thank you. Are there any more comments to the amendment? Mrs. Marie-Jewell, your comments will close the debate.

Thank you. Just a quick closing remark. Mr. Speaker, I know many of my colleagues have stated that we did plan for a fall election and I know that we made that agreement well over a year ago. However, I want Members to know that well over a year ago, we didn't know we were going to absorb a $38 million deficit; we didn't know we were going to face that. We also didn't know that we were going to be looking at a $58 million cut from the federal government. It's basically with that in mind, giving proper planning for the next government that I had placed forth these amendments. Thank you.

Thank you. To the amendment.

Recorded vote.

Recorded vote has been called. All those in favour, please stand.

Recorded Vote

Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Mr. Zoe, Ms. Mike.

All those opposed to the amendment, please stand.

Mr. Patterson, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Dent, Mr. Ballantyne, Mr. Koe, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Pudluk, Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Arngna'naaq, Mr. Ng, Mr. Pollard, Ms. Cournoyea, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Morin, Mr. Nerysoo, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Lewis.

All those abstaining from the motion, please stand. The result of the vote on the amendment: three for; 18 against; and, no abstentions. This amendment is defeated.

---Defeated

To the main motion again. Mr. Zoe.

Thank you. The motion to amend Motion 11-12(7) is in order. To the amendment. Mr. Zoe.

Thank you. Seconder of the motion, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Question.

To the amendment, Mr. Lewis.

I'll be very brief, Mr. Speaker. I certainly respect the Member, but this issue has been around a long time. When is the best time to do anything? We could go through the whole calendar, as we have done in the past, and end up coming up with the same result.

Mr. Speaker, the problem that I have with an election that would take place on September 4th is that, although I'm still fairly fast that I can get around very quickly, there are 17,000 people in this city and many of them take off for holidays during the time that school is out; that's in July and August. So what happens is that if I'm going to have to get to people and campaign between the 31st of August and the 4th of September, I'm going to have to be much faster than I have been in the past.

---Laughter

And I don't think it's a reasonable thing to ask somebody, as the oldest person in this House, to have to cram a campaign into the last three or four days of the 45 days that would be available. It's not fair to me, Mr. Speaker.

Hear, hear.

To the amendment.

Question.

Question has been called. Mr. Zoe, your closing remarks will close the debate.

Question.

Question is being called. All those in favour, please stand.

Recorded Vote

Mr. Zoe, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

All those opposed, please stand.

Mr. Patterson, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Dent, Mr. Ballantyne, Mr. Koe, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Pudluk, Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Ng, Mr. Pollard, Ms. Cournoyea, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Morin, Mr. Nerysoo, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Lewis.

All those abstaining, please stand. The results of the recorded vote to the amendment are two yes; 17 no; and, one abstention. This amendment is defeated.

---Defeated

To the motion.

Question.

Mr. Koe, do you wish to make any closing remarks? Question is being called. All those in favour?

Recorded vote.

A recorded vote has been requested. All those in favour of the motion, please stand.

Recorded Vote

Mr. Koe, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Pudluk, Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Ng, Mr. Pollard, Ms. Cournoyea, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Morin, Mr. Nerysoo, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Lewis, Mr. Patterson, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Dent, Mr. Ballantyne.

All those opposed, please stand. All those abstaining from the motion, please stand.

Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Mr. Zoe, Ms. Mike.

The results of the recorded vote for the main motion: 12 yes; no zero; three abstentions. This motion is carried.

---Carried

---Applause

Just to clarify, there were 17 yes.

At this point, I would like to recognize, in the gallery, a former colleague of mine who used to work with the Dene Nation, Jack Hicks.

---Applause

We have Motion 12-12(7) with Mr. Antoine.