Mr. Pollard.
Debates of March 29th, 1995
Topics
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 700
The Chair John Ningark
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 700
John Pollard Hay River
Mr. Chairman, I mentioned to the Standing Committee on Finance this morning that there is $1.2 million that really should have been in this supp. It did not make it through the system and has not even gone to the Financial Management Board yet. The Standing Committee on Finance recommended this morning that we try to include it in this supplementary appropriation but until the Financial Management Board meets tomorrow morning, I won't have approval from them. Because we're dealing with the supp today, I can't meet the time line. So, I'll advise the House that, although it should have been a supp, it will probably end up as an overexpenditure by the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs in their water and sewer program of some $1.2 million. Just for the record, it's not something that's being buried, it's just that it got caught in a timing process. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 700
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Your point is duly noted by all Members of the committee. Mr. Patterson.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 700
Dennis Patterson Iqaluit
Mr. Chairman, if this sizable amount is going to be overspent by the department, I wonder if now is the time to find what the cause of this overexpenditure was. I thought the rates had been jacked up amidst great public protest in the past year. Were the increased water rates, particularly commercial water rates, still not enough to balance the budget? Thank you.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 700
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Patterson, I'm told this particular matter is not really before this committee but I'll perhaps -- though not making it a habit -- allow the Minister to respond. Mr. Pollard.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 700
John Pollard Hay River
I was going to say the same thing, Mr. Chairman. I was merely saying to the committee that there is a large amount of money that will eventually show up on our books and you will see it is an overexpenditure and I didn't want to appear to be underhanded and not say it should have been in this supp. It should have been. I didn't bring the details of the $1.2 million to the House, Mr. Chairman, recognizing that we couldn't discuss it. I admit that I've raised the issue and I believe, if you concur Mr. Chairman, that the Minister, Mr. Ng, does have some details in this regard.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 700
The Chair John Ningark
The appropriate time would be to do it during question period. Mr. Patterson, do you really want a response on this issue? Mr. Patterson.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 700
Dennis Patterson Iqaluit
Well, I'll defer to your advice, Mr. Chairman, that now is not the appropriate time. The Minister has given notice of the issue. But I will say that I would like to know what is going on because people already howled about the rate increases and now it appears they weren't enough. So I think, either through a Minister's statement or some other explanation, the public ought to find out what's going on. In the interests of carrying on with our work here today, I'll set my question aside for now. Thank you.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Pollard.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
John Pollard Hay River
Mr. Chairman, the Minister can deal with it when his budget comes up before the House if that would be acceptable and we can provide the information to Members prior to that.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
The Chair John Ningark
Do we agree?
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Where are we? Total department, $215,000.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Department Of Health
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
The Chair John Ningark
Qujannamiik. We're on page 15 of Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95, Health. Operations and maintenance, administration. Special warrants, not previously authorized, $33,000.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
The Chair John Ningark
Qujannamiik. Health and hospital boards, special warrants, $2.414 million. Mr. Dent.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the chairman of SCOF and Mr. Patterson have already talked about the impact of SCOF not having all the information when reviewing the budget detail. This is one of the areas where I think it would have made a significant difference to what the committee might have reported to the House in its report on the main estimates if all of the information had been made available to us.
We were advised when we were going through the budgets that with health and hospital boards, there were going to be some significant cost savings; that in undertaking measures through using the nearest centre policy and the agreement with the Royal Alexandra Hospital, we were going to be saving significant dollars. Yet, when we see this supp come through it indicates that, in fact, the amount of money is not a savings in comparison to what had been expected.
Can the Minister advise, in the health and hospital boards task, what the proposed budget is for 1995-96?
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister of Finance.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
John Pollard Hay River
Yes, the amount of the task is $93.785 million, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
The Chair John Ningark
Qujannamiik. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake South.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Just Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for that response. Mr. Chairman, when SCOF was reviewing its budget documents in January, the figure we had for health and hospital boards is shown in the left-hand column of the document we're examining today, which is $92.446 million. So when we look at the increase from $92.446 million to a proposed 1995-96 estimate of $93.785 million, it looks like a reasonable amount. It looks like we're perhaps accounting for inflation and increased use and it makes some sense.
In fact, by the time the Standing Committee on Finance was actually considering the budget of the department, if you take the special warrant into account, the expenditure under this task is, as shown in the document we have today, $94.860 million. Mr. Chairman, I would submit that the Standing Committee on Finance would have expressed some concern about how accurate a budgetary figure of $93 million could be for next year when we're spending more money this current year, unless the department could present to us some reason for the dollars to get down. In fact, we didn't get that kind of presentation and so now this appears to have been sprung on the committee and it throws into question our review of the main estimates.
I would like to ask the Minister how would he assess the impact of the special warrant and this task on the proposed budget of $93.785 million for next year?
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
The Chair John Ningark
Qujannamiik. Mr. Minister.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
John Pollard Hay River
Mr. Chairman, we had anticipated some $3.2 million in savings as a result of the contract with the Royal Alexandra Hospital in Edmonton. And, therefore, we had not anticipated spending that money. The new current estimated savings relative to this agreement is approximately $600,000. That is where the shortfall has occurred. That is why there was a need for this supplementary appropriation.
The Department of Health is looking at this particular issue right now because we know the trend has changed away from the University Hospital and we know what the per diem rates are. We know they are much cheaper over at the Royal Alexandra Hospital. So the department is producing a report that will bring home to us the real impact of the Royal Alexandra Hospital contract. I am not absolutely sure that the money that has been requested by the department in 1995-96 will be the amount that will be required in this area. I can't say more than that, other than we are looking at this issue, Mr. Chairman.
Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 701
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Dent.