This is page numbers 431 - 457 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was area.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Antoine, Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Hon. Samuel Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Ms. Mike, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Hon. Kelvin Ng, Mr. Ningark, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 431

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Ms. Cournoyea.

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Don Morin will be absent from the House today to travel to Edmonton to attend to matters relating to the conflict of interest inquiry. The Honourable John Todd will be absent from the House today to meet with the chief executive officer of the Northern Stores in Rankin Inlet. Mr. Todd will also be absent from the House Monday, March 6th and Tuesday, March 7th to attend a prospectors' and developers' conference in Toronto.

Mr. Speaker, I will also be absent from the House Monday, March 6th and Tuesday, March 7th to attend the prospectors and developers' conference in Toronto and on Thursday, March 9th to attend the Pauktuutit annual general meeting in Inuvik. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Achievements Of Ronnie Hauck
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 431

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I walked to work this morning with a young man who I have known since he was 15 years old. He is now 32 and his name is Ronnie Hauck. He's a person with very special abilities and special challenges. A few years ago, the Abe Miller Centre assisted him in setting up a courier service out of the centre. About a year ago, I asked Mr. Todd to assist in helping Ronnie to set himself up as an independent courier service. He learned quite a bit about Ronnie and he was very impressed with his achievements.

I'm happy to say that on April 1st of this year, Ronnie will achieve the independence he's been trying to achieve since he was a teenager. In many ways, Ronnie's success is an example of what we would like to achieve with our entire economy. We are a very small population and we shouldn't depend only on mega projects to be our major economic saviour. In the long run, Mr. Speaker, it will be the hundreds of small businesses that will sustain us because they, themselves, will be sustainable.

This seems like a small issue, Mr. Speaker, but if we are successful in many small projects, the economic impact could be very significant. I would like to make this statement today in the absence of Mr. Todd because I would like to thank him for his attention and assistance in this matter, but do not want to see him blush.

---Laughter

So, perhaps this can be passed on to him. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Speaker's Ruling

Achievements Of Ronnie Hauck
Item 3: Members' Statements

March 2nd, 1995

Page 431

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I would like to provide my ruling on the point of order raised by Mr. Lewis on March 2nd which is contained on page 988 of unedited Hansard. The point of order raised by the honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis, was in regard to comments made by the Member for Thebacha, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, surrounding the use of unparliamentary language by Mr. Lewis.

The point of order raised by Mr. Lewis was that Mrs. Marie-Jewell, in her comments as contained on page 987 indicated, and I quote: "Mr. Speaker, I did not appreciate those comments then and I still don't appreciate them. In fact, those comments are unparliamentary." In her comments earlier, Mrs. Marie-Jewell quoted from remarks that Mr. Lewis had made during his Member's statement given on February 20th, which is contained on pages 433 and 434 of unedited Hansard. The Member for Thebacha also added her own interpretation of Mr. Lewis' comments, and I quote again from page 987 of unedited Hansard: "He even said that the people of Yellowknife feel that Members who support the idea of a spring election are guilty of sleazy tactics."

In reviewing the comments made by Mr. Lewis in his Member's statement surrounding the use of the word "sleazy," I think it is important to actually read the whole statement to understand the context in which the word "sleazy" was used. I would like to quote what was said by Mr. Lewis, contained on page 434 of unedited Hansard, and I quote: "Any move to have a spring election very soon would be seen as opportunism and an attempt by MLAs to catch the opposition with their pants down and would be seen by many of the people of Yellowknife as completely sleazy tactics."

I have considered the matter. The use of a word or words that are intended to convey a direct imputation on another Member or on the House, itself, is of course out of order and unparliamentary. In considering the matter, the chair considered the words of the Member that lead up to the use of the word that appeared to offend Mrs. Marie-Jewell. I find that in this situation the Member for Yellowknife Centre did not make a direct imputation with the use of the word "sleazy," therefore, Mr. Lewis does have a point of order. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Achievements Of Ronnie Hauck
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 432

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I, too, reviewed Hansard last evening and recognize that Mr. Lewis did not refer "sleazy" toward us as Members. Therefore, I would like to withdraw the quote with regard to these particular words as being unparliamentary. Thank you.

---Applause

Achievements Of Ronnie Hauck
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 432

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Point of privilege, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Point Of Privilege

Achievements Of Ronnie Hauck
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 432

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, on a point of privilege, I rise under rule 20 concerning a report that was on CBC radio this morning.

Mr. Speaker, as you are aware, I did file the required statement with you that was on the news report and I would like to quote it. The particular area that I would like to quote is Giles Penney's report, "...it was an unpleasant struggle with frequent pleas to the Speaker." And particularly to the reference where he stated, "Thebacha MLA, Jeannie Marie-Jewell, started out saying she wanted to have an election in June. But, before she finished talking, she was asking the Speaker to rule on MLA Brian Lewis's comments from February 20th when the Yellowknife Member used the word "sleazy"."

Mr. Speaker, I feel that CBC, once again, are reporting incorrectly. It was in fact Mr. Lewis who raised the point of order as we have just discussed this issue. Once again, we find that CBC is reporting incorrectly and not focusing on the issue that was under debate and more on sensationalism. The CBC does no favours to the residents of the Northwest Territories in not reporting accurately the events of this Assembly. They are not giving them information that they want to be informed about.

I know, Mr. Speaker, that we can't do much about this, but I want to correct CBC for the record. Thank you.

Achievements Of Ronnie Hauck
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 432

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Survey Of Tourists Visiting Yellowknife
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 432

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning. Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism for conducting a recent survey of Japanese tourists here in Yellowknife. A survey of this nature will help Yellowknife and other regions to improve our northern tourism industry. Part of the story that came out says, "the untouristy city and warm and friendly people of Yellowknife drew praise from Japanese visitors in a survey." In fact, 71 per cent of the respondents said that they would recommend to their families or friends a visit to this city, and only three per cent said they would not recommend a trip here. I think if you look around at any time during the wintertime, you will see an awful lot of people from the Pacific Rim visiting our city. They're here to view the northern lights. One of the biggest attractions, Mr. Speaker, and I wish we could export some of it, is the cold. Forty below weather is also an item that tourists from the Pacific Rim areas like to experience for a short time, knowing they can come here and then they can go back where it's warm. But if we could only figure a way of exporting some of this cold weather, we would make a fortune. But they like it.

Also, Mr. Speaker, I have to agree with some of those surveyed who stated that some of the souvenir items are often too large and too expensive to purchase by the average tourist. It says that the price and size of the souvenir, gifts and arts and crafts are an area that the Japanese would like to see changed and improved. According to the survey, a number of the residents stated that these items were often too expensive or too large to purchase. I made those comments to Economic Development the other day during committee of the whole when we were discussing their budget.

Mr. Speaker, having been a tourist myself, I know very well that the size and the weight of items can often determine whether or not they are practical for me to buy and to carry home. An item may be beautiful, but if it is too big and too expensive to put in luggage, and weighs more than the tourist does and it costs much more than they can afford, tourists will probably end up leaving it on the shelves. They were interested in much smaller items.

Mr. Speaker, my time has run out. I seek unanimous consent to continue.

Survey Of Tourists Visiting Yellowknife
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 432

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mr. Whitford.

Survey Of Tourists Visiting Yellowknife
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 432

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. Items of a smaller nature are probably much more attractive. That way people can take home a number of items for a number of family members on an equal basis. They like to have something for everybody, and we mustn't forget that they come from far away and it's often quite expensive to carry stuff like that home, especially if it's only part of a tour that they're doing here.

Mr. Speaker, I was really pleased to note that the friendly residents of Yellowknife scored so high with our Japanese visitors. Their friendly attitude is not something that any government department can create by legislation or even by increased funding. A city or town either has to be friendly and helpful to visitors or it will not succeed. They either have it or they don't have it, I guess is what I'm trying to say. It's a very important item for tourists.

Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to recognize the huge part that our residents have in making Yellowknife a tourist spot that so many of our offshore visitors come here to see. They're to be commended and so is Economic Development and Tourism for getting this kind of information to the public. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Survey Of Tourists Visiting Yellowknife
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 433

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Item 3, Members' statements. Ms. Mike.

Nunavut Mlas Not Getting Two-week Break
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 433

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just for the record, I would like to state that the motion to amend Motion 14-12(7) was defeated, which is unfortunate because the Nunavut Caucus ordinary MLAs will have less than a two-week break when everybody else will have a two-week break.

Furthermore, I was somewhat saddened to see that our Nunavut Cabinet Members did not support the amendment for the March break. I say this because, as I said yesterday, I did try to change the dates with the chairperson of the Nunavut Implementation Commission, but because of the Price Waterhouse report not being available prior to that date, we could not change the date. As a result, some of our Members will have to fly home and then return again the middle of the next week to attend this very important meeting that really is a key part in designing the Nunavut government. Thank you.

Nunavut Mlas Not Getting Two-week Break
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 433

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Dent.

Mammography Screening In The Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 433

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on October 31, 1994, the Honourable Nellie Cournoyea responded to my written question about a policy, on mammography screening for the NWT by providing statistics showing that the number of women having mammographies in the NWT compared favourably with five other provinces that have screening programs.

Mr. Speaker, the implication from these statistics is that there is no need for the NWT to have a breast screening policy because even without a policy, we still have roughly the same percentage of women having mammographies as provinces with screening programs.

Later today, I will table that documentation as an interjurisdictional survey. At the same time, I will retable the Minister's return to written question so the Members may compare the two.

Mr. Speaker, on December 15, 1992 the federal government announced the federal breast cancer initiative, totalling $25 million over five years. One of the initial activities was the National Forum on Breast Cancer. The forum's primary purpose was to recommend, to the health care community at large, priorities and directions for future action in four main areas: breast cancer research; prevention and screening; treatment and care; and, support and advocacy of, and networking by, women with breast cancer.

Mr. Speaker, all 10 provinces and the Yukon took part in that national forum. The NWT was the only jurisdiction absent, even though the federal government offered to cover expenses for an NWT representative. In addition, the federal government committed $20 million over a five-year period to the Canadian breast cancer research initiative. This money is to provide funding for a broad spectrum of research relating to the prevention, early detection and diagnosis of breast cancer, as well as the treatment and care of people living with breast cancer.

Currently, Mr. Speaker, membership on the Canadian Breast Cancer Screening Initiative Committee includes representatives from Departments of Health in all 10 provinces and the Yukon territory. I understand the NWT is still not participating, the only jurisdiction in Canada not in.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Mammography Screening In The Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 433

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Complete your statement, Mr. Dent.

Mammography Screening In The Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 433

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, honourable Members. Mr. Speaker, Health Canada through the CBCSI has committed $1 million over five years to support and coordinate breast screening programs across Canada. Already, seven provinces and the Yukon territory have organized breast cancer screening programs -- planned or in place -- the NWT has not.

Mr. Speaker, it is distressing that the Minister's department seems not to realize how far along the other provinces and even the Yukon are in developing policies for mammography screening. Medical research proves the value of screening programs is overwhelming.

The national workshop on the early detection of breast cancer has proposed that high quality screening be made available to all appropriately aged women throughout this country, including indigenous women and those living in rural areas. Mr. Speaker, I really cannot understand why this recommendation which will save lives has not been embraced by the government. I have heard it argued that we, in the NWT, have a lower incidence of breast cancer than in other areas of Canada, but that is still no excuse for not participating in this type of program.

Mr. Speaker, we are talking about a program that could save lives. How long do women in the NWT have to wait? How many more will die when they could have been saved? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Mammography Screening In The Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 434

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, recent public statements have been made about a matter that has caused many concerns to my constituents in Fort Smith. I am speaking of reports indicating that the regional vice-president of the Union of Northern Workers in Fort Smith falsely represented his credentials on an employment application to work in a government position.

Many of my constituents were very concerned with the fact that he was in an area working with troubled children, despite the fact that he allegedly presented fraudulent accounts of his training and education. There are further concerns that even when it was discovered that misrepresentation took place, it has appeared that no formal action has been taken by the Department of Personnel or the Department of Justice.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, this individual continues to retain his executive position with the Union of Northern Workers, even though he resigned from the public service upon discovery of his deceit.

Mr. Speaker, this matter has the potential to create a disruptive situation with the regional operation of our territorial civil service. It also has the potential to effect employee morale and to erode public confidence in the GNWT personnel policy.

Mr. Speaker, I believe it has left many of my constituents, who are in fact hard-working members of our public service, unhappy and confused about the sort of policies that are being implemented by their own collective bargaining unit.

I believe there are a couple of concerns and questions that need to be raised as to what formal action was taken by the Department of Personnel to investigate and respond when it was alleged that this employee misrepresented his formal background during a candidate selection procedure. How can the Union of Northern Workers possibly retain its credibility as an organization that is representative of public service employees when regional vice-presidents are not even required to work for the government?

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that many of my constituents are concerned and, as you are aware, I know that when matters like this occur...

My time is up, I seek unanimous consent to continue.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Thebacha is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please complete your statement, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As you are aware, I know when matters like this occur in small centres or remote communities, impact on workplace relations and employee confidence can be much greater than people in Yellowknife might realize. On one hand, it creates turmoil and interpersonal strain within government operations, while on the other, it attempts to mediate the situation which risks being interpreted as interference in the operation of a legal and independent collective bargaining unit.

You know in many ways, Mr. Speaker, for an MLA, it becomes a no-win situation. For this reason, Mr. Speaker, I believe it requires further examination; particularly when this position was held to look after youths of our territory, and troubled youths. Therefore, I will be looking to the respective Ministers of our Cabinet to enquire and to take the necessary leadership to address this kind of situation.

However, in closing, Mr. Speaker, I want to reiterate what some of my constituents have told me. That they want me at the same time to compliment one of our northern news organizations, News/North services, for researching and reporting this matter in News/North, especially considering that our local newspaper, the Slave River Journal, has been ignoring the situation. Some of my constituents have even suggested that this may be due to the fact that the union office space is rented from the Slave River Journal owner. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ningark.

Traditional Events In Taloyoak
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 434

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, during my visit to my region, mainly Taloyoak, I had the opportunity to talk to one of the local business people, Mr. Dennis Lyall. Mr. Lyall has indicated to me on two occasions that he wants to put together traditional events, which are slated for the early summer of 1995.

Mr. Speaker, such events are good for the community; it brings together different entertainers from outlying communities as well as from other regions. Mr. Speaker, cultural events are good, they are mentally healthy; physically healthy and culturally healthy, and, Mr. Speaker, it is God-given for people to get together in the spirit of goodwill. So I would urge the department which has the money to support such events to do so. At the appropriate time, I will be asking the Minister of Education, Culture and Communications for some possible funding for this event. Thank you.

Traditional Events In Taloyoak
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 434

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Nerysoo.

Achievements Of NWT Athletes
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 434

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wanted to have an opportunity to speak about a young man I think many of us know personally, at least I do. He's a young man who is setting what I consider is an example worthy of recognition. He's a young man from Yellowknife, actually, by the name of Jeremy Jaud. We pay great tribute to our athletes. Mr. Whitford, Member for Yellowknife South, spoke about our athletes at the Canada Winter Games. The chair of the Ordinary Members' Caucus spoke about the Koe curling team. Sometimes, Mr. Speaker, we have a tendency not to realize the importance of sports to the development of young people.

I wanted to rise to pay tribute to Jeremy Jaud, and not only for his character because I had an opportunity to be at the Canada Summer Games where I saw Jeremy Jaud and members of the Yellowknife Polar Bear Swim Club, who are the majority of the team, cheer on other athletes, whether they were playing volleyball, soccer or fastball. For those who don't know and who didn't read the papers, from the 10th to the 12th of February at the 1995 Junior Nationals in Victoria, Jeremy took gold in the 100-metre freestyle, the 100-metre breaststroke, the 200-metre individual medley, the 200-relay, the 200 metre breaststroke; and, in the 400 metre relay, Jeremy and his team broke the old youth national record by a full two seconds.

Jeremy Jaud also won silver medals in the 200-metre freestyle, the 400-individual medley, the 200-backstroke and the 400-metre freestyle.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Achievements Of NWT Athletes
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 435

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Mackenzie Delta is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Nerysoo.

Achievements Of NWT Athletes
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 435

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and thank you, colleagues. Mr. Speaker, I wanted to make a point of raising this issue today because I think, oft-times we have a tendency of spreading bad news. Jeremy Jaud is giving the territories a chance to spread good news about things, about young people and the reason why determination and commitment is important for young people, whether it is in school, athletics or at work. A young man like this who, along with other athletes like Ron Gonzales of Hay River, Pinto Dragon of Fort Smith, and Kevin Koe of Inuvik/Yellowknife, set wonderful examples for our young. I think we should always encourage young people to participate in athletics because it develops character, commitment and the desire to do better, whether or not they win. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Achievements Of NWT Athletes
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 435

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to talk about young athletes, and Jeremy Jaud is a very impressive young athlete. I would like to talk about our speedskaters. This weekend, the NWT Speedskating Association is holding their territorial championships. There are 150 skaters involved in the Yellowknife club. They've been coached by very dedicated long-time coaches, Gay Kennedy and Dave McCann, who have been with the club for many, many years.

We also have a wave of the future. Three of the great young skaters in the club, Giny Wainwright, Dwight Pennington and Jamie Sanders are fantastic skaters and have taken certification courses with Sport North and are giving back to the sport, as coaches, so that the club continues. The Yellowknife Speedskating Club has held clinics in Igloolik, Fort Providence, Pangnirtung, Tuktoyaktuk, Norman Wells, Inuvik and in Aklavik. Last week, we had eight athletes at the Canada Winter Games

and everybody at the Winter Games were very impressed with the calibre of our athletes.

Speedskating is a wonderful sport for those who have ever seen it. Those kids skate like the wind. There are very simple rules: skate fast and turn left, at least that's what they tell me. It's a sport that can take place anywhere in the territories because all you really need is an arena, skates and a helmet. I understand that Pangnirtung is one example where it's really catching on and two kids from Pangnirtung are competing here at the championships. They are a really good bunch of kids and a good bunch of coaches, with tremendous camaraderie. I think the Yellowknife Speedskating Club is a great credit to the community.

The championships are being held at the Yellowknife Community Arena on Friday from 6:00 pm to 9:00 pm and on Saturday from 12:00 pm to 4:00 pm. Everybody is welcome. On behalf of the Legislative Assembly, I wish all the competitors well in the NWT championships. Thank you.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 140-12(7): Funding Provided To Students At Lester B Pearson College
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 435

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Antoine on February 22nd with regard to funding provided to the students at Lester B. Pearson College. In the past, the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment supported one northern student a year to attend Lester B. Pearson College, through the payment of a two-year scholarship. The scholarship covered costs for tuition and room and board for this two-year program. In addition, the department also paid the transportation costs for NWT students.

Due to fiscal restraint, in 1993 the department informed Lester B. Pearson College that they would no longer be providing a scholarship for students to attend this program. The last student the department fully funded to attend was a student from Fort Smith, sponsored for the 1993-95 academic term. This year, the cost of tuition and room and board for the college is $19,000. The department did provide the college with a list of possible private sponsors, including land claim organizations, that might be willing to support NWT students.

I am pleased to inform you that, starting in 1994, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, in conjunction with Lester B. Pearson College, is supporting a student from Rankin Inlet to attend the program. I am also pleased to inform you that Lester B. Pearson, itself, is also offering a scholarship for one NWT student for each new two-year term. A Fort Simpson student is now receiving this scholarship for the 1994-96 term. In total, there are three NWT students now attending the college. A student from Fort Smith is in the second and last year of the program and the Fort Simpson and Rankin Inlet students are in the first year of their program.

I'm not aware of any letters sent to these students telling them that they would no longer be receiving scholarship funding to attend Lester B. Pearson college and I would appreciate receiving a copy of these letters so I can help resolve this matter. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 140-12(7): Funding Provided To Students At Lester B Pearson College
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 436

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice. Mr. Speaker, several of the victims' services programs of the NWT have been able to tap into federal funding on a three-year term basis to augment the funding from this government. Without this funding, it is questionable whether many could have even operated. Is the Minister aware of any cuts to this federal funding as a result of the federal budget?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I have to take the question as notice. I have yet to receive the details of the implications of the federal budget to our specific programs. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The question was taken as notice. Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the budget speech delivered on February 20, 1995, the Minister of Finance made a statement and I wish to quote that statement: "We are committed to treating our employees fairly and it is our intention to work cooperatively with the unions, be it at the bargaining table or in joint consultation, to determine the most effective means to reduce wage and benefits costs." What does the Minister mean by this statement?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning. Mr. Speaker, I wanted to send a clear message to our employees, either through the NWTTA or the UNW, that we would bargain with them in good faith, whether it was creating workforce adjustment programs if any downsizing were to occur, or if it was concerning community transfer where jurisdictions are changing for certain employees. Most of all, Mr. Speaker, it was regarding the collective bargaining that has been going on and that we have asked for certain concessions from our employees through their union, the UNW. I wanted to send a clear message that that would be done in good faith and that we were willing to cooperate and use the bargaining process properly and come to good arrangements with our unions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi. This particular statement that I quoted seems like a real paradox, Mr. Speaker. I am sure that the union is not as interested in reducing wages and benefits costs, as some Members of this government are. How are the negotiations between the UNW and this government proceeding?

Supplementary To Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are no negotiations going on at the present time. We are looking and have exchanged names with regard to mediation and arbitration which is a course in the bargaining process.

Further Return To Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

Fred Koe Inuvik

Has an arbitrator or mediator been chosen yet?

Supplementary To Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

John Pollard Hay River

Not to my knowledge, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Final supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

Fred Koe Inuvik

When does the Minister expect that process to continue and expect a mediator to be chosen?

Supplementary To Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

John Pollard Hay River

I can't give a specific date, Mr. Speaker, but I would hope that it will be occurring very soon. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Question 224-12(7): Clarification Of Statement In Budget Address
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I commented earlier this morning in my Member's statement that many of my constituents in Fort Smith are

concerned about a matter involving a former government employee in Fort Smith. Public statements have been made suggesting that this individual falsely represented himself as having a higher education than he actually did. Since then, this employee has resigned from his position which is similar to a position of trust working with youth. Mr. Speaker, the seriousness of the matter is compounded by the fact he continues to retain a senior position on the union executive as the regional vice-president. My question to the Minister of Personnel is what policies and procedures are in place to verify the information that candidates for government employment provide with respect to their education and training, which will reflect their proper credentials? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Personnel, Ms. Cournoyea.

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I will take the question as notice.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The question was taken as notice. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Finance. A number of months ago, the Minister of Finance had meetings with the federal Minister Masse. The meetings were regarding the reconciliation of federal, provincial and territorial bureaucracies to try to end duplication and overlapping. What impact did the last federal budget have on these discussions?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 437

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the responsibility for overlap and duplication rests with me, although the arrangements between governments are between the Prime Minister and the Premier across the country. The Premier assigned me to conclude the issue with Minister Masse and our first round has been concluded. Mr. Ballantyne raises a good point, Mr. Speaker. With the federal cutbacks that are going to occur in the federal government, already we have seen Mr. Todd suggest that there are some federal things that could be done to mitigate the effect of the cutback on the EDA.

There are all kinds of signs out there that we need to get together again with the federal government. Just last week, there was a letter from the Prime Minister to the Premier saying the first round was over. We will be now be looking at what we can suggest for the second round. I would like to get more information on the budget first, but sometime in the next 30 days, I will be drafting a letter for the Premier to send to the Prime Minister to instruct Minister Masse to get back to me, so we can look at the impact of the federal government cutbacks on the NWT and see if there are some efficiencies that we can gain. At the same time, we need to mitigate some of those cutbacks upon us.

We need to see if we have too much administration and whether we can cooperate with the federal government. That is what we intend to do. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 437

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary To Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 437

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for that information. In the letter and subsequent discussion with Minister Masse, could the Minister outline the concern that if the federal government continues to cut back all their programs, at the end of the day, there is going to be nothing to harmonize. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 437

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 437

John Pollard Hay River

Indeed, Mr. Speaker, those issues will be pointed out. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 437

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary To Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 437

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Another area that I would ask the Minister and the Premier to explore -- and I would ask they include this area in the letter and discussion -- is DIAND. DIAND was relatively unscathed through the last budget. We are not sure over the next five or six years if the northern side of DIAND will remain unscathed. It seems that that is one area where there is a lot of duplication between what they do and what we do. Would the Minister specifically look at DIAND and see if there are areas in DIAND that could be better done by us or if there could be some harmonization between what DIAND does and what we do in the Northwest Territories.

Supplementary To Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 437

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 437

John Pollard Hay River

Yes, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Question 226-12(7): Impact Of Federal Budget On Overlapping Responsibilities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 437

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Justice. In last fall's capital Budget Address, the Minister of Finance stated that the Department of Justice was preparing a continuation plan to implement a correctional facilities plan. Again, in the recent budget speech, the Minister of Finance made reference to the corrections plan. My question to the Minister of Justice is what is the status of the corrections strategy and facilities plan?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The commitment that we made is that before the end of this session, a fully detailed plan will be presented to this Legislature. Thank you.

Return To Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

Fred Koe Inuvik

There has been a lot of talk about putting emphasis on community corrections. What initiatives are under way in the department to prepare communities to develop community corrections programs?

Supplementary To Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have written to communities, asking those communities that are interested to put forward proposals on how they would envisage community correctional facilities being provided and developed by them, should we be able to find the money and the capability to assist them in making that happen. We have received some proposals which are presently being reviewed in anticipation that we will have some definite money to follow up our plans. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There have been advertisements out for proposals, as the Minister mentioned, for community corrections programs or youth facilities. When does the Minister envisage implementing some of these programs?

Supplementary To Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the department is presently reviewing the proposals that communities have sent in and will be coming forward with some recommendations to me about how we should proceed. Again, it's one of those initiatives where we give a great deal of leeway to communities to come forward with their own ideas of how...(Microphone turned off)...look at them. The department will come forward with some recommendations to me on how we should proceed. All this is awaiting some definite financial commitments from our government once we are able to decide how and where that money should come from. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Question 227-12(7): Status Of Corrections Strategy And Facilities Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Ms. Mike.

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of DPW. On my last constituency visit, I met with the GNWT staff, mainly with the teachers to deal with their request, along with DPW staff from the region. The outcome of our meeting was generally satisfactory; however, I still have some concerns.

The houses that cause me concern are more than two decades old and are in poor shape. Condition ratings were done shortly after the implementation of the housing strategy more than three years ago. What was the purpose of condition rating GNWT staff houses in level II and III communities?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of DPW, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, we were assessing the condition those particular units were in. I know the problem that the Member is raising. It has been brought to my attention, and I have asked the department to go in there again and look at these units that are causing the problem and give me a full report. So there is going to be an update on that condition rating, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Ms. Mike, supplementary.

Supplementary To Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe the honourable Minister did not answer my question. I wanted to know what was the purpose of the condition rating on GNWT staff houses.

Supplementary To Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

John Pollard Hay River

We wanted to find out what condition they were in so we could make plans on what would happen with those units; whether or not we put a lot of money into the units, whether we dispose of the units or whether they have to be written off. We needed to know at that time what we were looking at for the condition of those particular units, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Supplementary To Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understood in his first response that he will get a full report on these units that I'm talking about, as to what condition they're in. Does this mean that the condition rating will be done again?

Supplementary To Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 438

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 439

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I've received specific complaints from people in Pangnirtung about some of the units that they're living in at the present time. I was concerned about some of those complaints, and I've asked for an assessment of those particular units. So I will have a better idea of what condition the unit is in and whether or not the maintenance has been done. It may even come back and tell me whether or not it's worth doing any more maintenance on those particular units, Mr. Speaker. From that report, I'll decide on what course of action to follow after that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 439

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Final supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Supplementary To Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 439

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It has been more than three years since the housing strategy was implemented. My understanding of the condition rating, as Mr. Pollard put it, is to assess what shape they're in. However, three years has gone by and nothing has been done to a lot of these units. From what I am told from the region, it's because there is nothing available to either make any repairs or to do any retrofit if that's what must be done. Will the Minister assure me, after he receives the report on the condition of these units, that everything will be done, that he locate some funds to at least bring these staff housing units to substandard condition? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 439

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 439

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I want to find out what those units are like and get an assessment of what is the most economic way to either fix them or give me some outlook on what we can do with those particular units. I can't commit that we're going to refurbish those houses, but I can commit to the Member that as soon as I get that report back, I'll sit down with her and go over the report and we'll decide on a course of action. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Question 228-12(7): Purpose Of Condition Rating GNWT Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 439

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I indicated earlier in my Member's statement the plan of Taloyoak people to have a cultural event some time in the early summer. This may be preliminary at this stage. As I also indicated, it is God-given to enjoy life in a spirit of goodwill. It promotes the future young artists in the field of music, Mr. Speaker. It enhances the cultural identities of the specific group in this area. My question is to the Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment. Could the honourable Minister provide me with information on what is available to support such events in terms of finances? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 229-12(7): Funding For Traditional Events
Question 229-12(7): Funding For Traditional Events
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 439

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't have all the information of all the programs available, but I will commit to the honourable Member, through writing, that I will advise him of all the programs that are available and, in fact, Mr. Speaker, I will even commit to writing and having the departmental staff in Cambridge Bay work with the people to whom he is referring so that they may fill out the appropriate forms so that they can be considered for accessing resources which are available in the department. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 229-12(7): Funding For Traditional Events
Question 229-12(7): Funding For Traditional Events
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 439

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 229-12(7): Funding For Traditional Events
Question 229-12(7): Funding For Traditional Events
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 439

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the honourable Minister. Would the honourable Minister assure me that he will take action, at the first opportunity, with his staff? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 229-12(7): Funding For Traditional Events
Question 229-12(7): Funding For Traditional Events
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 439

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 229-12(7): Funding For Traditional Events
Question 229-12(7): Funding For Traditional Events
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 439

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We will certainly take this issue along with some of the other issues the honourable Member has raised from his particular constituency, and we will see if we can combine them and try to address them collectively, maybe with a visit of the staff to that particular area. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 229-12(7): Funding For Traditional Events
Question 229-12(7): Funding For Traditional Events
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 439

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Justice. Mr. Speaker, the Minister should be aware of public statements that the regional vice-president of the Union of Northern Workers falsified information provided on his resume when he was being considered as a candidate for a treatment position in Fort Smith working with youths. I would like to ask the Minister if he can indicate whether there has been a formal investigation of this matter; with a view to determining if formal legal action should be taken in the event of deliberate or fraudulent misrepresentation of employee information. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I think that question should be more appropriately referred to the Honourable John Pollard.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of departments involved in this one. Our department, Financial Management Board Secretariat, was the lead department, and it may eventually have to be turned over to somebody else, but in the meantime, Mr. Speaker, I will take the question as notice. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. (Translation) Today I would like to recognize some people in the gallery. They are from overseas, the Soviet Union, now called Russia. When I look back to 1972 when Canada and the Soviet Union played hockey, the Canada Cup series, I recognize the names of some of the players, but the names of the guests we have in the gallery right now are very difficult to pronounce. I would like to try to say their names today. I might not be able to say them well enough but I will try. (Translation ends) Mr. Bremey Aipin.

---Applause

Mr. Aipin is the deputy chairman of the Committee on Aboriginal Affairs in Russia's Parliament. He is also the president of the association of aboriginal minorities in the north, Siberia and far east of the Russian Federation. So that is Bremey Aipin.

---Applause

The next gentleman is Ivan Ledkov.

---Applause

He is the deputy of the Legislative Assembly of the Okrug region. He is also the deputy chairman of the legislative committee.

The next person is a lady by the name of Elena Mal'steva.

---Applause

She is the medical doctor responsible for regional hospitals.

The other person is Vladimir Kryazhkov.

---Applause

He is a professor of law. I hope I pronounced your names correctly. I apologize if I didn't. Welcome to the Assembly.

---Applause

Also, just to remind Members, you will have an opportunity to meet with that delegation this afternoon.

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Pudluk.

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) I would like to thank the Minister of Renewable Resources for having been able to visit my community. I apologize for not being able to be with him when he was in Grise Fiord. He met with hunters and trappers in Resolute and they talked about polar bear hunting. There is going to be a survey done near my community of Resolute Bay with regard to polar bears. The study will be to find out if there are enough polar bears left in my region. I would like to ask what other survey will be done during this time. Is there going to be another survey with regard to polar bears done? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Return To Question 231-12(7): Polar Bear Survey Near Resolute Bay
Question 231-12(7): Polar Bear Survey Near Resolute Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 440

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was glad to visit my honourable colleague's communities. I felt welcome when I visited these communities. We had successful meetings and we discussed a possible survey that would be done with regard to polar bears. At the same time, we were able to consult with local people to find out their problems and this was through questions that were raised in the community visits. The survey that will be done in the spring is with regard to counting the polar bears around the Resolute Bay area; in particular, they are going to be counting the numbers of polar bears in the High Arctic region. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 231-12(7): Polar Bear Survey Near Resolute Bay
Question 231-12(7): Polar Bear Survey Near Resolute Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 440

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Public Works and Services. Mr. Speaker, the department has been undertaking some consultation and review of the business incentive policy. I know there has been a fair bit of concern expressed over the consultation process because in many situations, there were no departmental officials present. I was wondering if the Minister could advise if the consultants have provided their report of these consultations to the department yet?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Government Services and Public Works, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 440

John Pollard Hay River

We anticipate that a report will be made to Cabinet by March 31, 1995, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 440

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 440

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the same Minister. Could the Minister advise whether or not changes are expected to be made to the BIP for this spring's tendering?

Supplementary To Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 440

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I think there may be one more step in the process and I should be honest about it. That is, I made a commitment to Mr. Ballantyne earlier this session that if there were people who wanted to meet with me -- and I think there were some people from Yellowknife -- with regard to the BIP, that I would do so. That's one thing that I have made a commitment to do, if necessary.

I don't know what the recommendations are going to be yet, Mr. Speaker, but I can tell you that it's my feeling that there may have to be some changes to the BIP suggested to Cabinet, certainly, by the first two weeks of April, which may influence tenders that are let after that particular date, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister just indicated that he thought changes might have to be made by the first two weeks in April to the policy. Given that the consultant's report to Cabinet isn't expected before the end of March, that obviously doesn't leave any time for the review of the changes by the contractors in the Northwest Territories. Is the Minister now saying that contractors will not have a chance to comment on the revised BIP before it is actually put in place?

Supplementary To Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

John Pollard Hay River

No, I'm not saying that, Mr. Speaker. I'm saying that changes may be suggested to Cabinet, changes that they may wish to put in place. If that is the case, then we'll ask the construction people, the companies and so forth, what they feel about it. But, if some of those changes are ones that companies in the Northwest Territories have been asking for, I wouldn't see that they are going to be totally upset with them. I stress again that it may be that we suggest changes to Cabinet, but it wouldn't be carte blanche, this is what we're doing. We'll advise people and let them know what the changes are. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Question 232-12(7): Status Of Bip Consultation Report
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Allooloo.

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Premier or to the Finance Minister. I understand that through the summer student employment program communities are given opportunities to hire students. Unfortunately, when the GNWT hires students, because of the union scale, they have to pay students $18 per hour while local businesses and housing associations' student rates are $7.50 per hour. Because of the high hourly rate that the government pays, they seem to run out of money very fast because they don't allocate a lot of money into that program.

I wonder if the government is willing to contract that service out to private companies and housing associations so that money could be spread out over a longer period of time and more students could be hired in the summer so that more people benefit from the program. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I'll consult with Mr. Nerysoo on this matter and get back to the Member. I'll take the question as notice. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The question has been taken as notice. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier. Mr. Speaker, as Members in this House are undoubtedly aware, a Minister of this government is suing me, alleging that I have defamed him. The statement of claim alleges that the Minister in question has been greatly injured and: "His office, as a Minister of the Crown, has been brought into public scandal, ridicule and contempt." Mr. Speaker, I don't wish to get into the merits of the lawsuit against me. I am, however, concerned that the Minister in question has brought into the lawsuit the issue of damage to him as a Minister. Because of this reference to the Minister's office, can the Premier advise me whether the government is financing this lawsuit? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 234-12(7): Source Of Funding For Minister Morin's Lawsuit
Question 234-12(7): Source Of Funding For Minister Morin's Lawsuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the government is not financing the lawsuit. Thank you.

Return To Question 234-12(7): Source Of Funding For Minister Morin's Lawsuit
Question 234-12(7): Source Of Funding For Minister Morin's Lawsuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 234-12(7): Source Of Funding For Minister Morin's Lawsuit
Question 234-12(7): Source Of Funding For Minister Morin's Lawsuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm glad to hear that. Given the fact that a Minister of the government is suing me, in my capacity as a Member, I would like to ask the Premier how can this government assure me that the interests of my constituents will not be affected by decisions that are made by the Minister in his capacity as Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 234-12(7): Source Of Funding For Minister Morin's Lawsuit
Question 234-12(7): Source Of Funding For Minister Morin's Lawsuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 234-12(7): Source Of Funding For Minister Morin's Lawsuit
Question 234-12(7): Source Of Funding For Minister Morin's Lawsuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I am aware that the concern has been raised. I have, at this time, no evidence whatsoever that the Minister, in his capacity, will act in a negative way towards the honourable Member's constituency. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 234-12(7): Source Of Funding For Minister Morin's Lawsuit
Question 234-12(7): Source Of Funding For Minister Morin's Lawsuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. In the government's recent Budget Address, the Minister of Finance mentioned some revenue initiatives. One of these initiatives is, and I quote: "The structure of the mark-ups charged by the Liquor Commission will be revised." My question is to the Minister of Public Services, what initiatives will he be taking when changing the structure of mark-ups charged by the Liquor Commission?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Safety and Public Services, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The intention is that the lower-priced products will increase while higher-priced products will decrease. Mr. Speaker, for 1993-94, the flat mark-up would be: spirits, $19.96; wine, $6.05; beer, $1.52; and, coolers, $1.60.

Return To Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you. I assume those are percentages, but it wasn't very clear what the mark-ups were. One of the other revenue initiatives in his speech was that liquor licensing fees and import fees will be increased. Can the Minister advise us when these fees will be increased?

Supplementary To Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just so that I will be clear, the pricing that I was talking about were prices based on dollar values. The flat-rate mark-up was determined for spirits to be $19.96 per litre; for beer it was $1.52 per litre; wine is $6.05 per litre; and, coolers are $1.62 per litre. The mark-up rates will be implemented on April 1, 1995.

Further Return To Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Fred Koe Inuvik

We all know that alcohol abuse is a major problem in the north and there is a continuing need to adjust the problem. Over the years, there have been many calls to try to designate the amount of revenue that we collect from these taxes on liquor and use them specifically for alcohol and drug programs. I would like to ask the Minister, has anything been

done with regard to this aspect, to take the revenues and designate them specifically for alcohol and drug programs?

Supplementary To Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, not at this particular time. I believe that, based on the overall expenditures, the revenues that come from alcohol do not in any way match the revenue commitment to social programs in the Northwest Territories.

Further Return To Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Question 235-12(7): Initiatives To Restructure Liquor Commission Mark-ups
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Ms. Mike.

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier concerning the energy accord. As you know, Mr. Speaker, I used to be an interpreter, in 1976. There were some Members who felt this government might take the energy accord home. From what I can remember, previous governments have not been able to take the energy accord home for the residents of the NWT. One of the arguments while we were discussing the amendment to the motion concerning the election was how close are we to bringing this energy accord home since previous other governments have not been able to succeed? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I believe the question can best be answered by the Minister responsible. I will take that question as notice on his behalf.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question is taken as notice. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the absence of the honourable Minister for Energy, Mines and Resources, I would like to direct my question to the Premier. Mr. Speaker, mining and prospecting were virtually unknown in my area some time ago. But now we are going through exciting times. People who make their living by hunting have indicated to me on a number of occasions that they think they have found some valuable minerals in that area. I am not able to help them out in my community because we don't have a representative from Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. Could the Premier provide me and people who are interested in staking, some information or procedures on how to claim an area which a person thinks has some valuable minerals in it? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 237-12(7): Information On Staking Claims
Question 237-12(7): Information On Staking Claims
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, that information will be provided to the Member.

Return To Question 237-12(7): Information On Staking Claims
Question 237-12(7): Information On Staking Claims
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services what types of policies the department has with respect to assisting disabled adults who do not take advantage of entering any type of disabled institution, who are basically disabled at home. Are there any policies to assist the family with respect to disabled adults? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Cournoyea.

Return To Question 238-12(7): Assistance For Disabled Adults Living Outside Institutions
Question 238-12(7): Assistance For Disabled Adults Living Outside Institutions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I will provide the information on the policies and the directives that relate to the various levels of care and assistance that individuals can receive and access for the disabled who are not in institutions. Thank you.

Return To Question 238-12(7): Assistance For Disabled Adults Living Outside Institutions
Question 238-12(7): Assistance For Disabled Adults Living Outside Institutions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 238-12(7): Assistance For Disabled Adults Living Outside Institutions
Question 238-12(7): Assistance For Disabled Adults Living Outside Institutions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you. I appreciate that information, Mr. Speaker. In addition, could I ask the Minister with respect to that, we all know there is a disability pension from the federal government for a disabled adult in the event that they are eligible. Many jurisdictions give an additional type of benefit to disabled adults. I am wondering if the Minister's office has ever considered whether or not there should be some type of disability benefit pension for disabled adults. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 238-12(7): Assistance For Disabled Adults Living Outside Institutions
Question 238-12(7): Assistance For Disabled Adults Living Outside Institutions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Supplementary To Question 238-12(7): Assistance For Disabled Adults Living Outside Institutions
Question 238-12(7): Assistance For Disabled Adults Living Outside Institutions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I will have to take that question as notice.

Supplementary To Question 238-12(7): Assistance For Disabled Adults Living Outside Institutions
Question 238-12(7): Assistance For Disabled Adults Living Outside Institutions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The question is taken as notice. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. It is pertaining to the hamlet of Fort Liard and their ever-present request for a community hall. The Minister is very well aware of the subject since he was involved, before becoming Minister, as a Member of the Standing Committee on Finance.

---Laughter

I believe he did support it at that time.

---Laughter

I'm sure I don't have to remind him about that thoroughly because it was a recent subject. What the community is requesting is a capital issue, Mr. Speaker. As I stated previously in this House, there is no community hall at the present time and they are using the school facilities in the evenings. However, recently, there was a court party there and they had to use a hangar at the airport to hold court proceedings. I understand that now the courts will be held in Fort Simpson because there are no facilities in the communities and that will be an additional cost to the Department of Justice to transport people back and forth.

There are a lot of reasons why they need this facility. The community is saying that the community hall office complex is estimated at $1.057 million but they are requesting that only the community hall portion of this facility be advanced and that the hall become part of the arena. The present arena was designed to incorporate an addition of a community hall. The changes in the scope of the project would greatly reduce the dollars that would have to be reallocated by the department.

Would the Minister and his department consider such a trade-off in this instance? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm certainly aware of the situation, as the Member has alluded. It's unfortunate that there are a lot of requests out there, one from my constituency as well to try to address a water problem that has been a problem in the community of Coppermine over the years. Given our fiscal conditions, there isn't money to advance projects for all the requests that have come forward from the communities. Recognizing that there are needs out there, we have to plan in an orderly fashion to bring things on stream in a planned and orderly manner.

I would like to say that we recognize the need in the Member's constituency and will try to look to see if we can accommodate it. But, given the demand on our resources at this time, I can't commit to advancing the project unless there is an extraordinary amount of money that comes available. Thank you.

Return To Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to the Minister. The gym in the school is an excellent facility for sporting activities; however, a hall is required for non-sporting events such as dances, youth drop-ins, community feasts, public meetings, court, public service functions and public hearings. There are provisions in the five-year capital plan for a ground pool enclosure, curling rink and so forth. This, the community says, can be moved into future years. With the gym and a community hall attached to the arena, the arena would be adequate for some years to come.

Presently, the council is leasing office space from the Development Corporation. What they are asking is that the community hall portion of the plan be the only one built and that some of the other facilities planned for be moved into future years. I wonder if the department could consider something like this. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess if the community wishes to reallocate some of the existing capital funding in the community's existing capital plan, they could certainly approach Madam Premier and we could take a look at that. But if the community is asking to bring additional funding into the capital funding process, in order to do that we would have to delete a project from another constituency. At this time, as you all know, Members would be upset if that took place. I would like to say again that I do recognize the needs of the community of Fort Liard that have been brought forward by the Member. We will take a look at it. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Item 7, written questions. Mr. Zoe.

Further Return To Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Speaker, before we go to written questions, may I seek unanimous consent to return to item 3? Thank you.

Further Return To Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Question 239-12(7): Fort Liard Request For Community Hall
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to return to item 3, Members' statements. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Zoe.

Concerns Re Early Closure Of Winter Roads
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday my colleague, Mr. Antoine, raised a concern about the early closure of winter roads. He raised many good points about the effects on people of the communities as a result. I agree with Mr. Antoine's concern. People in my constituency are also concerned about the announced early closure of the winter roads.

Mr. Speaker, I have another concern with respect to the winter road closure on March 15th. This concern has to do with support for economic development. In my area, Mr. Speaker, there are a number of developments going on this year. Over the last week, I have received many calls and letters from groups that will be negatively impacted by this decision. For example, Mr. Speaker, the Dogrib Power Corporation is involved in a major development in conjunction with the NWT Power Corporation. The general contractor for this project has a lot of materials to bring in. Both the project schedule and prices were based on being able to maximize use of the winter road to get the supplies in.

Even the subcontractors on this project, such as the catering company, will be affected if they can't get in their materials. While contractors know that the length of time the roads will stay open varies, they certainly expected, based on past years, to be able to use the road well past March 15th. In Wha Ti, Mr. Speaker, the Wha Ti Development Corporation negotiated a contract to build an arena. They also counted on the economies of being able to use the winter road to get their supplies in. This closure may make the difference between a positive profitable project and a loss for this growing local business, the kind this government apparently wants to encourage.

Mr. Speaker, this government has placed a strong emphasis on economic development. This has extended to the use of negotiated contracts to help local companies get on their feet.

Concerns Re Early Closure Of Winter Roads
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Zoe, your time is up.

Concerns Re Early Closure Of Winter Roads
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Concerns Re Early Closure Of Winter Roads
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for North Slave is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Zoe.

Concerns Re Early Closure Of Winter Roads
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, colleagues. Mr. Speaker, the early closure of the winter roads seems to work against the efforts to develop our economy. Many of the projects negatively affected by the closure are paid for directly or indirectly by our government. I hope that when this decision was made, the government considered not just the savings but also the additional costs on projects as a result of supplies having to be flown into the communities and also to the project sites. Mahsi.

Concerns Re Early Closure Of Winter Roads
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 3, Members' statements. Back to item 7, written questions. Mr. Zoe.

Concerns Re Early Closure Of Winter Roads
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Speaker, can I seek unanimous consent to go back to oral questions? I forgot to ask one question. Thank you.

Concerns Re Early Closure Of Winter Roads
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for North Slave is seeking unanimous consent to go back to item 6, oral questions. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Proceed, Mr. Zoe.

Question 240-12(7): Early Closure Of Winter Roads
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct this question to the Premier, as the Minister of Transportation is not in the House in today. My question is with regard to the early closure of winter roads in my constituency and the negative impact, not only on the people in their day-to-day activities, but on planned economic development and construction activities. I understand that the Minister of Transportation has undertaken to look into the issue of winter road closure in response to Mr. Antoine's concerns; however, I would like to ask the Premier if she would endeavour to approach the Minister of Transportation to explore every possibility of keeping the winter roads open as long as possible and as long as the weather permits. Thank you.

Question 240-12(7): Early Closure Of Winter Roads
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 240-12(7): Early Closure Of Winter Roads
Question 240-12(7): Early Closure Of Winter Roads
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I will take the request to the Minister of Transportation to see how the needs and requirements that have been stated can be met. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 240-12(7): Early Closure Of Winter Roads
Question 240-12(7): Early Closure Of Winter Roads
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, report of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Dent.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 445

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table Tabled Document 42-12(7), the results of an interjurisdictional survey for comparison of figures, provided by the Honourable Nellie Cournoyea in October 1994 in response to my written question about mammograms. Ms. Cournoyea's reply indicated that the NWT compared quite well, in 1992, to results achieved in Nova Scotia, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Ontario and BC. This survey shows that there was actually a much greater percentage of mammographies done in each of those five provinces than there was in the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, I am also retabling Tabled Document 43-12(7), Ms. Cournoyea's Return to Written Question 15-12(6) for comparison's sake.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 445

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Nerysoo.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 445

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table Tabled Document 44-12(7), Northwest Territories Liquor Commission 40th Annual Report for the Fiscal Year Ended March 31, 1994. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 445

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. We will take a 15-minute break.

---SHORT RECESS

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 445

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The House will come back to order. We're on item 16, motions, and we have Motion 13-12(7) with Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS the Northwest Territories has a rate of reported violent crime which is six times the national average and a rate of reported sexual assault which is growing at alarming proportions;

AND WHEREAS there were 679 reported incidents of sexual assault in the NWT in 1993, making the rate of reported sexual assault nine times the national average;

AND WHEREAS it is estimated that alcohol is involved in virtually all crime in the NWT, and especially assault and sexual assault;

AND WHEREAS the Legislative Assembly, on February 11, 1994, recognized that violence against women and children is occurring at epidemic levels, and accordingly issued a declaration of zero tolerance;

AND WHEREAS many people in the NWT have expressed that the recognition of extreme drunkenness as a defence to assault and sexual assault by the Supreme Court of Canada, has made women feel threatened and at risk;

AND WHEREAS the Minister of Justice and Attorney General for Canada on February 24, 1995, tabled legislation in Parliament which will amend the Criminal Code to remove self-induced, extreme drunkenness as a defence to crimes of violence;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Sahtu, that the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories expresses its full support for the proposed amendments to the Criminal Code which would remove self-induced extreme drunkenness as a defence to general intent crimes of violence;

AND FURTHER, affirms that the removal of this defence is demonstrably justifiable in a free and democratic society. Mahsi.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The Canadian government's Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, the Honourable Allan Rock, has tabled amendments to the Criminal Code. These amendments will not allow self-induced extreme drunkenness or intoxication as a defence to crimes of violence. There was a Supreme Court of Canada decision last fall called the Daviault decision. The case used extreme drunkenness as a defence to an assault charge. By being really drunk, this person was in a state of automatism and insane while he sexually assaulted an elderly lady in a wheelchair. This decision and the act itself, is totally unacceptable to everyone in any society and must be changed.

Now other people are beginning to use this decision to defend themselves in courts for assault charges. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 7, gives everyone the right not to be deprived of their right to life, liberty and security of person, except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice. Being extremely intoxicated does not give anyone the right to deprive other people in this society their own right to life, liberty and security, Mr. Speaker. Based on that, I move this motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Seconder of the motion, Mr. Kakfwi.

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This federal legislation that deals with an extremely sensitive predicament is indeed welcome. It is welcomed by this government, it is welcomed by the numerous women and children and advocate groups who, every day, have to deal with the unrelenting increase of crime and violence in our communities.

When the decision came down, there was a huge public outcry, particularly from women's groups who pointed out that what the decision did was to make women and old people feel at extreme risk because such a high percentage of sexual assaults that are committed in the north are accompanied by states of extreme drunkenness. The groups predicted that, contrary to the opinion of the Supreme Court which said that the defence would be rarely applicable, here in the north it would be relied upon routinely to justify assault and it would be almost legal encouragement for abuse.

This fear and prediction was substantiated, since the decision came down, by the court cases that have used the defence successfully across this country. Since the decision came down, it was felt by many of our constituents that time was of the essence. That it was important for the federal government to move as quickly as possible to provide legislation that would remove this legal defence. We should realize that, in having this legislation proposed -- and hopefully, it will pass in Parliament as quickly as possible -- someone will still use a particular section of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to argue that it impedes upon their rights as guaranteed to them under the Charter. But, the same Charter will also provide us arguments to suggest that such legislation is justified in a free and democratic society.

The important thing is the federal government has prepared a solution for Parliament to act upon and we must encourage them to pass this legislation as quickly as possible. The sexual assault incidence in the Northwest Territories is now at a staggering nine times the national average in Canada. We all know that many of these assaults are committed under conditions of extreme drunkenness. Here in the north, we have, unfortunately, a situation where we can provide a case for justifying the removal of that defence.

As the proposed amendment says, it is not an excuse under the law to get so drunk that you don't know what you're doing. If you get that drunk and commit an assault you must be, and have to be, accountable for what you have done. The best case for the removal of this defence is the impact, as I've said, that it is having on women, children and old people. They do not feel safe and this particular development in law has only escalated the degree to which they feel at risk. It is imperative that we all support the federal government to act as quickly as possible to put this legislation in place and to remove this defence.

I want to thank the Members for the encouragement to move on this issue, for the words that have been spoken in the months since the decision came down, and the will to which we've all recognized that we have to act on this particular issue. Thank you.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Mr. Speaker, I, like I'm sure everybody in the House, will support this motion. I would like to thank both the mover and the seconder for putting this motion forward. I think it is a very important motion.

It was just recently, where there was actually a case here in the Northwest Territories where the defence counsel put forward this defence. I will speak for myself. I was happy to hear that there was, in my opinion, a very good decision made by the judge and that that defence wasn't allowed to be used here in the Northwest Territories.

However, it caused tremendous concern across the country, and I think it really brought to the forefront some very important issues that Canadians have been talking about for a number of years. It brought to the forefront a number of frustrations that Canadians have had for a number of years.

I, for one, think that the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms has done a lot of good things, and I think that in many cases it has enriched our society.

On the other hand, unfortunately, some of the more sordid people in our society have been able to hide behind the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and they have been able to use it as a defence for their otherwise criminal actions. A lot of Canadians have been upset about that over the years.

A lot of Canadians have also been upset that elected representatives, because of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, seem to be powerless in dealing with many of these issues, that in fact there were judges, not elected officials, who were dealing with the very pressing social issues that we, as Canadians, are dealing with every day. So, I, for one, applaud Minister Rock in taking command of this situation as an elected official, saying loudly and clearly that elected people do still have the where withal to respond to legitimate concerns of Canadians and to bring forward legislation which will hopefully put some limits on the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I, for one, think that, at the end of the day, unless we do put some limits on the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and that particular bill, that that particular very important part of our constitution, will lose an increasing amount of respect.

So, I think this is a very important step. What it does is say that the Canadian government and our Legislative Assembly really strongly believe that nobody who drinks too much by their own irresponsible decision has the right to harm anybody else.

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Finally, we have a government in Canada and a Minister in this country who are willing to take the bull by the horns and to take definitive steps to support the rights of women across this country. So I very strongly support the initiative taken by Minister Rock, and, again, I strongly support this motion here in our Legislative Assembly. Thank you.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

To the motion. Mr. Ningark.

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My hat's off and my salute goes to the mover of the motion, Mr. Jim Antoine, and the seconder of the motion, the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi. I find the two movers of the motion to be very gentle people. I know they look after their families, and I think people across the country in particular jurisdictions should be made aware of that, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, when I was growing up, my parents died when I was very young. It was my sister who is four years older than I am who brought me up. She looked after me as though I was her son, but sometimes she and I have had disagreements. I know it was between brother and sister. So, Mr. Speaker, when I go from my apartment to the Legislative Assembly about every other day by foot, I see mothers bringing their kids to school, going across the street to make sure they are safe. Also, Mr. Speaker, the most innocent people in human society are children. The givers of life in this human society are the mothers. They nurture their kids from the time they are born until they are old enough to look after themselves. Mr. Speaker, in most cases, when the husband or common-law husband is under the influence of the evils of alcohol, the victims are those children and the wives in a household. This is not acceptable in this society, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have passed zero tolerance in this particular Legislature. The public out there is expecting us to do something about it, and this is one way that we can send a message to the federal government, to other jurisdictions and to cowardly drunks who, in most cases, beat their wives. The behaviour at this point in time of those people who are under the influence of alcohol is unacceptable. I will support the motion and I will urge my colleagues to do the same. Thank you.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Lewis.

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Very often we blame judges. You know, judges are terrible people who make bad decisions, and so on, which the public can't understand, but all judges really do is interpret the laws that politicians pass in their Legislatures across this country. Sometimes we create a law which may be open to several interpretations and it is then up to judges to decide what is the real intent. So we can't just simply blame the clever people in the Supreme Court of Canada because they have come up with a decision. It is something that they do as a matter of duty, they put a lot of thought into it and they look at the law that they are asked to interpret. So I also commend Mr. Rock, who is a politician, who can see this problem and is going to fix it.

The bigger problem though, Mr. Speaker, is the problem within our society and how we do not take responsibility. It is the height of immaturity to say that I did not know what I was doing. It wasn't me; it was that other person who becomes somebody else once he's done this or done that. I have heard this so many times in my life where somebody has asked me, what did I do last night? Explain to me what happened. I find that very difficult to understand. I was there. The other person was there. He seemed quite conscious about all the things that he was doing and yet, for some reason, he believes that there were two people in the room, him and this other guy who somehow he doesn't identify with. I just can't understand that and I've heard it so many times.

It's nothing to do with relationships to women or relationships to children. It is to do with the fact that individuals won't take responsibility for their actions. I have heard it so many times now that I find it probably one of the endemic problems in our society, that individuals always want to blame somebody else, blame this, blame that and don't take responsibility themselves for their own actions. We are sovereign.

When you look at a bottle and it's a bottle of alcohol -- I have mentioned this before; I remember Ted Trindell saying this in Simpson years ago -- if you check the fingerprints on that bottle that someone is getting drunk out of, the only set of fingerprints are going to be those of the guy who is drinking it. That's whose fingerprints are on the bottle. Don't blame somebody else. You had the choice, and you did it. I believe that if we can't get to some stage where we don't accept that individuals have individual responsibility for their actions, then no amount of laws or everything else is going to make any difference. It is individual responsibility that matters more than anything else, and that is where we have to start. Thank you.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Some Hon. Members

Recorded vote.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Recorded vote. Mr. Nerysoo, sorry.

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't want to take up too much time of the Assembly, but I did want to say a few words about this particular matter.

Mr. Speaker, I heard on a number of occasions where my colleagues have stood up in this House and spoke eloquently about the importance of all of us to consider the values and the manner by which we make judgements about our society. Most Members here have probably heard about a recent case in my constituency where an argument of this type was made for the defence of an individual.

I don't want to make judgements about the individual; what I do want to say is that the attack was perpetuated on an elder.

My colleague, Mr. Ningark, spoke about the innocence of the young -- our children -- and mothers, but we must also recognize the innocence of our elderly because it is they who established our community for us and have provided us with a great deal of leadership and have probably taken us through more difficult times than any other group of people in our communities today. They have gone from driving dog teams to sitting in houses at home, sometimes isolated from their families and often abused. Not abused in the sense that it was based on violence or physical abuse.

The fact is that now we are seeing a situation where we are somehow creating an environment where people agree the drunkenness itself is the basis for arguing that harm can be bestowed upon others. As Mr. Lewis has pointed out, I think we need to create a situation where there is maturity in our communities. We have to teach our young that it is wrong to use these arguments as the basis for their irresponsibility. Mr. Speaker, I think this Assembly, having taken the position it has, is showing that we are not prepared to accept that immaturity or irresponsibility should be the basis of putting others in harm. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

An Hon. Member

Hear, hear.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. To the motion. Mr. Antoine, you have the opportunity for closing remarks. Do you have any?

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to say that this amendment that the federal Minister of Justice is amending is a good amendment. It will help society keep people in the society from using extreme drunkenness as a defence for actions that they take when they commit crimes against society. I would like to urge all Members to support this motion. Mahsi.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

An Hon. Member

Recorded vote.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question is being called and there is a request for a recorded vote. All of those in favour of the motion, please stand.

Recorded Vote

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Antoine, Ms. Mike, Mr. Pudluk, Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Arngna'naaq, Mr. Ng, Ms. Cournoyea, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Nerysoo, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Lewis, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Dent, Mr. Ballantyne, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Mr. Zoe. Mr. Koe.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

All those opposed to the motion, please stand. All those abstaining, please stand. The results of the recorded vote is 18 yes, zero no, and zero abstentions. This motion is passed unanimously.

---Carried

---Applause

When we reconvened after recess, I went to item 16, when I should have gone to item 15. My mistake, I apologize. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Monday, March 6, 1995, I shall move that Bill 18, Northwest Territories Energy Corporation Limited Loan Guarantee Act, be read for the first time.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96; Committee Report 2-12(7), Report on the Legislative Action Paper on the Office of Ombudsman for the Northwest Territories; Committee Report 3-12(7), Report on the Review of the Legislative Action Paper Proposing New Heritage Legislation for the Northwest Territories; and, Committee Report 4-12(7), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Main Estimates, with Mr. Ningark in the chair.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, the committee will come to order. What is the wish of the committee, Mr. Dent?

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I would like to recommend that the committee continue consideration of Bill 1 and Committee Report 4-12(7) and specifically move into consideration of the budget for the Department of Renewable Resources.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Does the committee agree that we deal with Bill 1 and Committee Report 4-12(7), specifically to deal with the Department of Renewable Resources?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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Some Hon. Members

Department Of Renewable Resources

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Is the Minister for the Department of Renewable Resources prepared to deal with his department? Mr. Minister.

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Yes, Mr. Chairman. May I proceed with my opening remarks?

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The Chair John Ningark

Yes, Mr. Minister.

Minister's Introductory Remarks

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, committee Members. Mr. Chairman, over the past few years, the Department of Renewable Resources has been listening to

what people in communities have been saying. We have heard three main messages:

1. We want to be involved in the management of our resources;

2. We want to increase benefits from the resources in our back yard; and,

3. We want our resources to be healthy and productive.

The Department of Renewable Resources has responded to these messages in a number of ways. Today, I would like to note some of our achievements and review our plans for 1995-96.

Increased Involvement In Managing Resources

Mr. Chairman, northerners want to regain their traditional role as caretakers of the environment and resources. This has been the reason for the establishment of renewable resource management boards under land claim agreements. The boards work with departmental staff on local and regional management programs and priorities.

Outside of land claim areas, the department seeks ways to provide the same opportunities. We encourage involvement in resource planning. For example, the 1995-96 budget includes a request for $250,000 and one person year to provide assistance to communities that are developing integrated resource management plans in the South Slave and Deh Cho.

To participate in decision-making, northerners must be kept informed. We do this by attending meetings of local and regional organizations, hiring local assistants for research programs and inviting harvesters to attend national or international meetings. As well, we have offered to establish agreements with communities so that local renewable resource officers can report to them.

One program area where we need to improve community involvement in decision-making is forest fire management. We heard this message at all the meetings we attended in December 1994 and January 1995. In 1995-96, we hope to implement some of the suggestions that we heard.

In addition to supporting the direct involvement of harvesters in renewable resources management, the Department of Renewable Resources has also been training northerners to work as resource managers. For example, two northerners became biologists after successfully completing university degrees as part of their training programs. We also have two senior management training positions, six renewable resource officer trainees and one forest management technician trainee. As well, we provide advice to Arctic College on training needs that the renewable resource training programs should fulfil. As part of planning for division, in 1995-96, we will develop a training plan for Nunavut as required under the final agreement.

Increasing Benefits From Renewable Resources

In 1994, the renewable resource development strategy was approved. The strategy provides an approach for managing and using our wildlife, fish and forests. The strategy promotes local employment opportunities, economic self-reliance and local influence over the pace of development. I am particularly proud of two achievements under this strategy. The first was a successful lobby trip to Europe last May to request a one-year delay in the implementation of the European fur import regulation. The second achievement is the fur pricing program, which establishes a minimum price for good quality wild fur. With the introduction of this program, more people are trapping again. To respond to demands for more training in fur harvesting and handling techniques, the department's 1995-96 budget includes the addition of one person year and $100,000.

In the eastern Arctic, we have been working hard to promote the sealing and fishing industry. This past year, in cooperation with Economic Development and Tourism, we researched consumer interest in seal and sealskin products. In 1995-96, we are working with the Broughton Island tannery and residents on a pilot project to produce and market these examples of high quality products. Mr. Chairman, if I may, I would like to pass out some samples of products that are being produced.

Mr. Chairman, we are providing seal pelts to the tannery through the fur pricing program. We are also investigating options for using the seal meat, since our objective is to ensure maximum use of the whole seal.

Although we have no responsibility for fisheries management, we are very active in representing the rights of territorial fishermen to have access to northern marine resources. This has not been easy because Atlantic fishermen have been looking north since the collapse of the Atlantic cod fishery. In 1995-96, through the Atlantic Council of Fisheries Ministers, I will continue to fight for our harvesters' rights. I am also requesting $125,000 and one person year to identify more opportunities for harvest and for enhancing native fish stocks.

Since 1992, the value of the territorial timber harvest has gone from $2 million to over $10 million. Harvest levels should increase again in 1995-96. To respond, the department is requesting an additional two person years and $225,000 to expand its forest inventory programs to ensure that harvests are sustainable.

Some of the activities planned for 1995-96 are to complete the community inventories requested by Fort Providence and Wrigley, to identify some areas for commercial harvest, and to begin a larger, three-year inventory program around Hay River. The department will continue tree planting and thinning programs. These forest management programs will result in approximately 30 to 50 seasonal jobs, and training courses will be held to prepare community residents for these employment opportunities.

Mr. Chairman, muskox, caribou and wood bison continue to increase. The department has been working with communities and other GNWT departments to develop sustainable and profitable commercial enterprises and also fulfil subsistence needs. Muskox harvests are planned for mid March around Holman and Cambridge Bay. Another excellent opportunity for commercial meat harvest and outfitting is the Southampton caribou herd. In 1995-96, we will invest $175,000 to assist Coral Harbour to develop this resource and manage this herd.

We will also conduct a population survey this year to determine what the harvest should be to prevent possible overpopulation.

For three years, the GNWT has invested in the Hanging Ice Bison Ranch. The people in Fort Smith are now starting to see the potential economic value of the wood bison at the ranch. To ensure that maximum benefits go to the community in 1995-96, the department will work with residents to develop a community management committee for the ranch.

Our regional staff are extremely important in promoting local opportunities for renewable resource development. Through land claim implementation funding, we have hired five additional staff for these purposes where land claim agreements are completed. As well, Mr. Chairman, we have assessed the workloads and locations of regional staff.

To begin making the allocation of staff more equitable and assist local renewable resource development, we propose to add four part-time and two full-time renewable resource officer positions this year in Aklavik, Arctic Bay, Tsiigehtchic, Baker Lake, Fort Providence and Holman Island. Where possible, we will hire and train local residents.

Keeping Our Resources Healthy And Productive

Northern cultures have always known that their own health and wealth depend upon a healthy environment. It is good to know that the rest of the world is catching on to this idea which they call "sustainable development." Since northerners request repeatedly that economic development activities must not harm the environment, I believe that one role of the Department of Renewable Resources is to help communities and industry make decisions that will keep our environment and renewable resources healthy.

One way we do this is by establishing environmental protection guidelines. In 1995-96, we will complete dust suppression guidelines, conduct public consultation on guidelines for the transport, handling and storage of hazardous waste and work towards draft guidelines on tannery and agricultural waste.

Another service we provide is environmental impact assessment. Departmental staff regularly review land and water-use proposals, identify potential environmental problems and recommend operating conditions to protect the environment. We also conduct studies to collect information needed to assess proposals or develop mitigation methods.

Mr. Chairman, with the increased mineral development activity in the area between Great Slave Lake and the Arctic Ocean, we are allocating an additional $225,000 and one person year in 1995-96 toward research and management programs. We plan to continue our program to identify critical wildlife habitat and develop habitat protection options. Another major activity in 1995-96 related to environmental impact assessment will be to coordinate the government's involvement in the review of the BHP diamond mine proposal.

The department also monitors contaminants in our environment. These studies will continue in 1995-96 and practical information guides for hunters and trappers will be released.

Mr. Chairman, honourable Members, these remarks provide some insight into the changes we are making. As the Minister of Renewable Resources, I want departmental programs and services to meet the cultural and economic needs of our people. I have heard that people want a choice of futures for themselves and their children and that is what I intend to provide. Qujannamiik.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, honourable Minister. On behalf of the Standing Committee on Finance that has reviewed the departmental estimates, we have a presenter. Mr. Zoe.

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Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before I make comments for the Standing Committee on Finance, I wonder if I could request, through you, Mr. Chairman, if the Minister would provide copies of his opening remarks to Members of this committee.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Honourable Minister, are you going to be able to provide a copy of your opening remarks to Members of the committee?

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Yes, Mr. Chairman. I believe they are being prepared now and will be handed out.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I believe, Mr. Zoe, that your request has been attended to. Proceed with your comments.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

Inter-Departmental Projects

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Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. I will be presenting the Standing Committee on Finance review of this particular department, the Department of Renewable Resources. Mr. Chairman, the committee noted a number of projects where the Department of Renewable Resources is working jointly with other departments, especially Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, and Economic Development and Tourism. In dealings with other governments, both within Canada and beyond, a cooperative, unified approach can only strengthen the Government of the Northwest Territories' position and the potential for a positive outcome.

This approach is particularly important in the upcoming Environmental Assessment Review Panel. The committee is pleased with the cooperative and close work currently under way between this department and the Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. Members hope this joint approach will continue throughout the review presentation process.

Forest Fire Management

In the report on the 1994-95 main estimates, the committee wrote: "The committee recognizes that 1993 was a bad year for forest fires in the Northwest Territories. The department was forced to spend $16 million on forest fire suppression last year, instead of the $7 million budgeted. While committee Members realize that the number and size of fires to fight is completely out of the department's control, we would like to see an analysis of the costs of fire suppression since the job of fighting forest fires was taken over from the federal government. It may well be that the yearly ups and downs in forest fire expenditures are "balancing out" over time; however, if we are continually spending more than we budget over the long run, we should know that now."

Again in 1994, it was a disastrous year for northern forests. Extremely dry conditions across the western Arctic led to an expenditure for fire suppression of over $27 million when only $7 million was budgeted. The Minister indicated that the $7 million in the budget is only a holding figure.

As one Member indicated, "Budgets are supposed to be realistic representations of where you expect to spend your money." Where the amount of an expenditure cannot be determined, it is crucial that the department use a figure which is the best estimate of the potential cost. The committee reviewed fire suppression costs for the past seven years and discovered an average cost of almost twice the budgeted amount. While the committee does not expect the department to be able to predict the number and severity of fires in a year, it is not acceptable that the Department of Renewable Resources use a holding figure for fire suppression which is not based on recent trends.

Mr. Chairman, in response to this concern, the chairman of the Financial Management Board suggested that if the budget figure was that of an average year's suppression costs, it might be difficult to control spending in a year of low forest fire activity. The committee's response is that such a concern should not force the use of inaccurate figures in the budget; rather, it points out the need to better control expenditures to ensure that managers are to spend as little as necessary to carry out their programs, rather than merely to come as close to spending their entire allotment as possible.

Recommendation 8

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, our committee made recommendation 8. The committee recommends that the Department of Renewable Resources provide a more accurate estimate for fire suppression expenditures; and further, that amendments to Appropriation Act No. 2, 1995-96, be introduced to reflect this revised fire suppression figure.

Environmental Protection

Mr. Chairman, committee Members expressed concern about the way in which the Department is moving towards taking over the federal responsibility for environmental protection in the north such as monitoring air quality. The federal government has a clear responsibility for environmental protection in the Northwest Territories. The potential cost of a single large-scale environmental disaster would place the territorial government in serious financial difficulty. Therefore, the department must avoid taking over tasks which are clearly the federal government's responsibility. The department must also work closely with the federal government in order to ensure that there is no duplication of effort and that the federal government carries out its legislated responsibility in the Northwest Territories. There should be no "grey areas" where neither side is clear about where the responsibility lies.

Support For The Fur Industry

Mr. Chairman, committee Members continue to support the ongoing work being carried out by the department in the area of renewable resource development and, in particular, the fur industry in the north. We are pleased to see initiatives such as the fur pricing system and the lobbying efforts with European parliamentarians regarding the potential violation of the GATT if fur imports are banned. The committee is convinced that the government must continue to lobby for the acceptance of the Northwest Territories quick kill traps by the International Standards Organization.

Mr. Chairman, that concludes the response from the Standing Committee on Finance. Before I turn over the microphone to go into general comments, I would like to move recommendation 8.

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Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

I move that the committee recommends that the Department of Renewable Resources provide a more accurate estimate for fire suppression expenditures; and further, that amendments to Appropriation Act No. 2, 1995-96, be introduced to reflect this revised fire suppression figure.

Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. I see that there isn't a quorum in the House. I will ring the bells to bring in the Members. There is a motion on the floor. It is recommendation 8 in the form of a motion. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Zoe.

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Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That concludes the remarks of the Standing Committee on Finance pertaining to the Department of Renewable Resources. Mahsi.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Before I open the floor for general comments, I would like to offer the Minister a choice of either bringing in witnesses or not. Mr. Minister.

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Yes, I would prefer to bring in witnesses if I may.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Would the Sergeant-at-Arms bring in the witnesses, please.

Thank you. Mr. Arngna'naaq, for the record, please introduce the witnesses.

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my left is Mr. Joe Handley who is the deputy minister of Renewable Resources; to my immediate right is Rick Feil who is the director of finance; and, to my far right is Marius Tungilik who is the Nunavut senior advisor for Renewable Resources. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Welcome to the committee, gentlemen. The floor is open for general comments. We are dealing with the Department of Renewable Resources 1995-96 main estimates. Do we have any general comments from the Members of the committee? Shall we go into detail? Mr. Koe.

General Comments

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Fred Koe Inuvik

I would just like to make a few comments on the Department of Renewable Resources. As we know, the department is a very, very important one to the lifestyles of most northerners in one aspect or another. The aspect of wildlife management, together with the land ownership, was one of the key components in negotiating and settling land claims. So they are very, very important to the people who have settled land claims and the ones who are currently negotiating.

Renewable Resources also can provide a major component of economic development and what we call sustainable development for our northern lifestyles. The department has many good programs, but I believe there is still a lot more that can be done, especially in cooperation with other departments, especially with Economic Development and Tourism.

The department is responsible for the management of wildlife and forests. We know there are many people out there who are looking at developing these resources, developing industries with our renewable resources. So the requirement is to manage, develop and conserve our resources on one hand. And on the other hand, through the Department of Economic Development and Tourism, to develop the industry, market it, do the salesmanship and the business aspects of the industry. Sometimes these work hand in hand, but in some areas they conflict because of the will and aspirations of the people.

One aspect of that is the commercialization of caribou. We know that in certain areas people are for it and in other areas people are against it. We have to take the wishes of the people, we have to be paramount on whatever we do in this regard.

The issues of providing assistance to hunters, trappers, fishermen and whoever else makes a living -- the forestry industry now -- off the land and using the resources. I have raised some issues regarding gas pricing and whether it was feasible to look at providing incentives in terms of providing cheaper gas for these people. I didn't get very positive responses to my concerns from the Minister of Finance because he claims that it's going to cost too much. But I put the challenge out and I am putting out the challenge to the department because they provide a lot of the contributions to the hunters' and trappers' groups. Maybe something will come of it, that we can provide some cheaper gas or incentives to encourage our people to get out on the land and live the kind of lifestyles that we consider fairly healthy.

The trappers' incentive programs that are in existence seem to be working. I will ask a question later, or maybe get a comment from the Minister later, as to how is it working. We put in a new program this year. There seems to be more trappers out. I don't have any statistics, so maybe the Minister can respond later to that issue.

The issue of protection of our caribou herds is one of great concern, especially to the people in the Delta and people around the northern Yukon and Alaska. There is a major concern about the protection of the caribou herds in that area. I want to state that the people I represent and the people who live in that area are very concerned, and we need to have this government support the wishes of the people who live in that area.

Another major industry that seems to have come to a standstill is the development of the muskox herds. In the Beaufort area, there has been a lot of work going on over the years. There were some proposals put forward by the Inuvialuit with regard to working on the commercial harvest of muskox and, again, I'm not sure where that is. So maybe a comment later on that.

I do note significant cuts in the budget of some $19 million and I believe it relates to the forest fire management, specifically fire suppression. The Standing Committee on Finance made some reference to that, that every year we seem to go for major supps in this area that continually throws this government's budget out of whack. So I support what the Standing Committee on Finance said in that regard, that we have some experience now so we should be able to budget in a more meaningful way the amount of dollars that are going to be required for fire suppression.

The last comment I want to make now is that I know the department is one of the ones that works very closely with the land claim groups and I want to recognize and appreciate that. I hope you continue to work with the claimant groups and respect the land claim agreements. I know there are very good working relationships with the groups now and I just hope that continues.

I just want to stop there and let the Minister respond to some of the issues I've raised, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 452

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Minister Arngna'naaq.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 452

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the comments that Mr. Koe has made with respect to Renewable Resources. Regarding the concern about the land claim groups and how the department relates to the various organizations, I think the department is one of the departments of the government that is able to respond and work well with the land claimant groups and, through the land claims, have been able to hire people to work within the department as advisors and to deal with some of the wildlife issues that arise from the various land claim areas in the Northwest Territories. I agree with Mr. Koe that there has to be a close working relationship with the Department of Renewable

Resources, as it is a department that has very real impact on the aboriginal peoples of the Northwest Territories.

With respect to the question of gas, I know that the department makes direct contributions to the various HTAs in the communities and much of the grants that are made to the HTAs are made available to hunters and trappers who are able to make use of them in the way they wish. It may not necessarily be for all hunters and trappers in the communities, but it is decided at the community level who is able to receive assistance. I think, in that way, we are able to assist in a small way in the ongoing operations of hunters and trappers.

With respect to the protection of caribou, I believe the department has been working very closely with the groups in the Inuvialuit area, the Gwich'in, the Government of the Yukon and also in other jurisdictions in southern Canada, to monitor and ensure caribou are protected in a manner that the people would like to see them managed and protected. I recently met with the ambassador for the Arctic, Ms. Mary Simon, and one of the issues we discussed was the Parry caribou herd. I believe she is just as concerned as we are, as a department, and as well as those people who are in the communities surrounding the Parry caribou, about how we manage and revive the herd. I'm sorry, not the Parry caribou herd, but the Porcupine Caribou herd. I believe we, as a department, are working with all interested parties and organizations in order to revive the caribou herd.

In the area of muskox, I'm not totally familiar with the commercial harvest and the work that has been done with respect to commercial harvesting of muskox. But, I'm certainly willing to make myself familiar with the concerns that may be raised.

One of the areas that I have spent a considerable amount of time on is forest fire management. I would have to agree that this is an area which could very easily get out of control, as it did last summer. I recently asked departmental staff to take a look at what this coming summer may be like and come up with a plan where we, as a department, can work to manage forest fires this coming summer, which included coming up with some draft strategies on how we would handle fires that get out of control.

I believe there are strategies and plans out there now that are being used, but in a time of fiscal restraint, we should be in a position to be able to say that the maximum number of dollars that we will be able to use this coming summer will be X number of dollars. And, knowing the maximum amount of dollars that we'll be able to use, we should be able to say to various communities this is the maximum amount of dollars we'll be spending; how is it that we can meet the strategy? I think, with the extensive consultations that have been carried out by the department, we have some good ideas which have come from the communities. Some of which, I believe, we agree with. Some differ from our views but I think, as a department, that we will be able to work with the communities effectively and come up with ways to reduce the amounts of dollars we spend on forest fires.

Mr. Chairman, I think that is all I am able to respond at this time.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 453

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. You have covered a lot of ground. Mr. Koe next.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 453

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi. I thank the Minister for his comments. On the whole area of fire fighting and fire suppression, fires are nature's way of cleaning our land, and fires have been going on since time immemorial -- long before we took over the program.

---Laughter

It is nature's way of cleaning pollution, cleaning the area and revitalizing, in many cases, the growth and the wildlife that come back into those new growth areas. So I agree that hard decisions have to be made, and I wish somebody would make them because it's costing us a phenomenal amount of money. I think it would be much cheaper in a lot of cases to put a good compensation program in place to compensate for cabins and other areas that are lost than putting the money into airplanes to fight these fires. I think that program would cost us significantly less than what we are now spending, especially in the areas far away from populated areas. I know we have the different zones and we have to recognize that. I am sure that's what you are hearing in the communities, that we have to protect our populated areas.

I know early in my political career I made a statement that most of our money is going into airplanes, flying these airplanes around and then housing the people who fly them. Years ago, they used to round up people off the street and put them to work with backpacks, hoses, shovels and axes, and that used to be the way to fight fires. You had a lot of people employed. In some cases they paid taxes if they earned enough or were eligible for other programs. I am a real advocate of making work where we can to reduce our costs without endangering people.

On the whole area, again, of environmental protection -- and I am pleased to note your comments on the initiatives you are taking -- we have to get some protection, guidelines and standards in place, especially where it pertains to contaminants. I am not sure about your department but I know that the federal government has supported environmental clean-up projects, and I think those are good initiatives and wherever we can we should support them. The Great Slave Lake clean-up done by the Metis project is one example. I know there are others that are done by Inuvialuit on the DEW Line sites. I am sure there are others. We have to support those. Again, they are a good economic boost and it puts people to work. People know the areas and they love being out there. So it does support several things.

On the whole issue of harvesting of caribou, especially near populated areas, the issue of monitoring and enforcing is one which I think most people I know encourage, and they are encouraged by the charges that were recently laid. I think charges are a deterrent to people but my own personal opinion is that there is not enough of it being done. I know the problem; we don't have enough officers to cover our vast areas, but wherever we can and during certain periods of time, we have to be visible. The officers have to be visible, have to do their checking and I believe have to lay the charges. That's the only way you are going to stop the waste and the damage done by certain people.

Now, again, I have to make a qualification that there are certain rights that we have talked about, aboriginal and treaty rights, and they have to be respected, but not to the detriment of wasting the game. I know that's not something that aboriginal people practice. We harvest and we are always proud of the fact that we use most of the product that we harvest, maybe not today but the elders certainly do, so we have to respect those traditions.

Another area that I want to talk about, that I didn't mention earlier, is the international initiative for protecting endangered species. The move these days is to set up parks and wildlife refuges. Again, if we are going to go into that or do those things, we have to protect rights, make sure that the people who are in the areas are in full support and that the land claims clauses are respected. I think it was last year that the wildlife federation or whatever group did a report card, and our grades were falling in the area of protecting our species. The other issue is endangered species. I know some of our species of animals, birds and fish are becoming endangered, and those are areas into which we must put some effort to protect.

Those are my general comments. Thank you for listening.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 454

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Next on my list is Mr. Ningark.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 454

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the Department of Renewable Resources is the most important department, next to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment.

Mr. Chairman, one area of interest that has been brought to my attention, on two occasions from my community of Pelly Bay -- as I indicated to the honourable Minister in the House a few days ago -- is regarding the confiscation of polar bear meat, especially, and polar bear skins. It is my understanding that it was during the sitting of the House when I was here -- I was not back home -- that Renewable Resources came to Pelly Bay because the community had killed more female polar bears than they are permitted to, but there were still polar bear tags in the community. The hunters came to me. In fact, about two or three hunters came to me and told me that they understood when the polar bear skins were confiscated but their concern was when polar bear meat was confiscated from three of the local hunters. They thought perhaps the game officer from Taloyoak had overstepped his boundaries or authority.

The Minister indicated to me at that time, according to his understanding, that there was no policy with regard to taking meat from a hunter when the hunter supposedly killed a polar bear when the tags allotted for females were over and beyond that quota. Mr. Chairman, perhaps the Minister will be able to respond to me positively this time. He wasn't sure at the time that I asked him. He thought it was not departmental policy to take the meat away from a hunter or hunters.

Mr. Chairman, the honourable Minister will recall during the Nunavut Caucus meeting in Gjoa Haven, the honourable Minister and I had an opportunity to meet with the hunters' and trappers' president, the hamlet council of Gjoa Haven, as well as the rescue committee. At that meeting, it was brought to the attention of the honourable Minister that the community was in the process of coming up with an emergency response plan. I forgot to mention one very important member of the community who was also at the meeting, an RCMP officer was also in attendance.

I was told by Gjoa Haven to remind the Minister that a proposal will be forthcoming. I don't know when. I don't know if the honourable Minister has already received the proposal but I was told to remind the Minister of the initiative.

Mr. Chairman, one of the concerns that came to my attention on a number of occasions, especially from elders who are not as strong as they used to be, is with regard to quick kill traps. Those people who spoke to me about them thought they were too dangerous because they are not able to get used to operating those traps. I know, and you know, Mr. Chairman, that progress isn't progress without change. We understand that; sometimes for the worse, sometimes for the better.

I hope the honourable Minister will endeavour to instruct his staff in that area. I'm sure they have already gone to the communities, but perhaps they could try to teach the elders how to operate the quick kill traps. I'm sure the people who attended the workshops on how to operate the traps were mainly middle-aged. Perhaps, the next time around, the honourable Minister will instruct his staff to try to get the older population of the communities in the region to use the new traps safely.

Mr. Chairman, another point that came to my attention during my community visits to my area -- not only from one community but from all three communities; namely Taloyoak, formerly Spence Bay, Gjoa Haven and Pelly Bay -- is that before my time -- or perhaps I was here, but only had been for a short time -- there used to be a special program jointly funded by the federal and territorial governments which was a special Arctic program. The program allowed hunters and trappers who could otherwise not afford to buy outboard motors, snow machines, hunting equipment and so on, to purchase these with some assistance from the government. To many people of that area, it was very useful.

As we know, the value of fur has gone down dramatically since the day when the animal rights activists became active. Since then, Mr. Chairman, the cost of hunting equipment has gone up about 300 per cent. You and I know that in communities where there are very low job turnovers and virtually no jobs available, the only way of supplementing your income -- which, in most cases, is social assistance income -- is by hunting. Mr. Chairman, you and I also know that every time a person who is a recipient of social assistance looks for other means of earning a living, that is automatically assessed and deducted.

Those were the very important issues which came out of the visit to my area, and not only my area but other regions of this jurisdiction. Mr. Chairman, if the honourable Minister would like to respond to some of my comments, he is free to do so. Thank you.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will attempt to respond to some of the concerns that Mr. Ningark has raised. First of all, regarding the confiscation of polar bear meat, I looked into that and have found that the current investigation practice of our officers is to seize the whole polar bear, all parts of the polar bear including the meat, for evidence. At this time, this is the current practice. I've asked the department to review this practice and see if there are other ways that evidence could be collected for use in court proceedings.

I understand that once the proceedings of the court are concluded, the meat is returned to the community through the HTA which is then able to distribute it to people of the community. I believe that is the current practice when a polar bear is killed illegally. I have asked if we can look at this practice to see if all the meat is required for evidence. So, it is being reviewed and I should be able to get back to the Member at some point to indicate whether the confiscation of meat is required.

The Member also spoke of the meeting that I attended in Gjoa Haven and I was very pleased to have met the HTA president, members of the hamlet council and the chairman of the search and rescue committee. The area of search and rescue is not within the department's mandate. Rather, it is a mandate of the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. But, as an interested Member, I have always been very concerned about the work that is being done in the area of search and rescue and have passed these concerns on to the responsible Minister. I look forward to receiving any information that the Member's constituents may have and would be willing to do whatever I can to assist.

Regarding the quick kill traps, the regulation which we have been encouraging and have followed is a European regulation. At the present time, the regulation does not discuss foxes. So, as a department, we have been training residents in the east on how to use the quick kill traps because it is a belief of the aboriginal people, the Inuit, that an animal that is going to be used for consumption or that is killed should be killed in a humane manner. At least, this is the way I was raised and I continue to believe that. If trappers in the east wish to use the quick kill traps, it is entirely up to them at this point but it is not necessary for them to use them. I have also asked the department to continue to find ways that we could find effective traps to be used by trappers. It is something that the department is still looking at, and continues to work with research stations.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The next on my list will be the Member for Baffin Central, Ms. Mike.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I would like to acknowledge that the Minister's department is one of the departments that works very closely with the communities and I would encourage their department to continue that way. I am happy to see that there is $250,000 in the 1995-96 budget included for resource management for South Slave and Deh Cho.

As well, they are looking into options for the uses of seal meat. Although with the project in Broughton Island, Minguq, most of the seal skins that are brought to this industry are the result of the harvested seals for their meat. But I would also encourage the department to see if seal meat can be marketed wider than it has been in the past. I know that there is only one outlet that buys and sells seal meat at the present time, which is Iqaluit Enterprises. He usually purchases it from Broughton Island.

On the resource planning area, I would encourage the department to look into areas where 50 years ago there was wildlife and where now they have been driven away because of settlements being too close to their grounds. I'm talking about the herd between Pangnirtung and Broughton Island in the Padloping area. I don't have extensive knowledge on this as the caribou studies in that area are fairly new, but I am told that it is in the last 50 years, since the establishment of Pangnirtung settlement back in the 1930s, that the herd has disappeared. Whether it is from over hunting or because of the settlement of a permanent place of people that caused it, I don't know.

When I was in Broughton Island the last time, I met with the hunters' and trappers' association and they requested me to see if I could assist them in finding some dollars to travel to Pangnirtung to meet with the HTA of Pangnirtung and try and see if they can revive the herd in Padle Fiord.

The Broughton Island people have to travel through Penny Ice Cap to get to the caribou northwest of Cumberland Sound, and that is quite a distance to travel to harvest caribou. Apparently, there have been talks through the regional office about this as well and it has never materialized to anything. One of the excuses was that the vegetation in that area might not be able to hold a number of caribou. But the fact is, that particular area is deep valleys and it is one of the areas that is more lush than some areas in Baffin Island. So I really couldn't buy that reasoning for not going forward in having the two HTAs hold their meetings to try to see how they can try to get this one area, Padle Fiord area, populated again with caribou.

However, I don't know whether the department has programs other than this $250,000 set aside for any kind of resource development like what I am talking about. But I am happy to see that there is some money set aside for this area because I think this is one area that we could develop more with the department. I would encourage the department to look into this further and perhaps allocate more than $250,000.

I don't have any questions, but I would like to know if there are any dollars set aside for HTAs who would like to have talks concerning resource planning and management. Thank you.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Ms. Mike. Minister Arngna'naaq.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe I have given a written response to the Member with the particular question on the discussion of caribou around Broughton Island and Pangnirtung. I do not recall what my response was, but I believe there is a study that is going on regarding the caribou. And there will be resource personnel who will be in the area and will be able to discuss with both communities the concerns that are being raised by the HTA in Broughton Island and also by people in Pangnirtung. I'm not able to say whether they will be able to come up with funds to assist with travel, but it is something that I'd be willing to take a closer look at. At the present time, I'm not able to respond but I believe there are funds being used to work with the HTA in Broughton Island and Pangnirtung in the 1995-96 budget. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Ms. Mike, are you done?

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Chairman, I have supplementary comments, if I may.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

I'm sorry, I didn't think you did. But, yes, please proceed.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Chairman, like I said, I just want to say, for the record, that I encourage the department for their involvement in resource planning and management and hope there would be more dollars put in this area. There are areas in the NWT where renewable resources can have a greater impact, especially in areas such as restocking where, traditionally, wildlife has moved away because of the establishment of settlements.

Another area that I wanted to comment on is that in my area I find the HTAs are very active in working with renewable resource officers and, oft-times, are the ones policing the area because they are the people who do a lot of extensive travel and cover a large area. They make sure people who are harvesting wildlife are abiding by the traditional values of the Inuit; by which I mean, they don't waste meat and skins. Recognizing the fact that HTA funding is very small, with the extensive work they do I was hoping there would be more than $250,000 set aside for resource planning and management so my constituents could use it because they have an interest in resource planning and management. Thank you.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I believe the Minister wants to respond to the honourable Member for Baffin Central. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the Member for raising the issue of HTA members and people who go out hunting who monitor many of the activities that take place out on the land. In some of the discussions I've held with HTAs in the communities, this has been raised, as they are the individuals who are out there and, quite often, monitor the various activities. They not only monitor their own people from the communities, but also exploration companies and the tourism activities that carry on. I think there is major involvement by HTAs, not only as members of their organizations but as actual hunters and trappers.

With regard to the discussion of the $250,000 that I remarked on in my statement, this $250,000 is in addition to what already exists for resource development. I believe that it's an additional $250,000, on top of the base we already have for resource development, that we will be making use of. It will be specifically for forest management in the South Slave and Deh Cho areas. I indicated earlier that there is work being done on the caribou herd around Pangnirtung and Broughton Island. I will commit myself to finding out exactly what is happening there and ensure that HTAs in both communities are consulted, as I know they will be, and report back to the Member. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Member for Baffin Central, Ms. Mike.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to make a correction. There isn't a caribou herd between Pangnirtung and Broughton Island, they are in the Natilikmiot area. Thank you.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Your correction is noted. I have Mr. Pudluk on my list.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Do I have time?

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

The Chair John Ningark

You have exactly four minutes, honourable Member.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

I, too, have general comments. I would like to thank the Minister again for listening to my constituents. I have a short question and I will pose other questions next week. In his remarks, there are provisions for four part-time and two full-time positions in the six communities. Who gets the full-time positions and who gets the part-time positions? Thank you.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. You have about three minutes to respond to the honourable Member, Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Mr. Chairman, the position in Aklavik will be a half-time position; in Tsiigehtchic, it will be a half-time position; in Holman Island, it will be a half-time position to make it a full- time position; in Fort Providence, it will be a half-time position; in Arctic Bay, it will be a full-time position; and, in Baker Lake, it will be one full-time position.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Honourable Member for High Arctic, do you have any more general comments?

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Mr. Chairman, I don't have time right now and I will have more questions on environmental protection and wildlife management when we get into that area. Thank you.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. It is almost 2:00 pm. The chair will recognize the clock and report progress. Before I do that, I would like to thank the honourable Minister and his witnesses for appearing before the committee. Thank you, very much. Have a good weekend.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The House will come back to order. Item 20, report of committee of the whole. Mr. Ningark.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 457

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. Your committee has been considering Bill 1 and Committee Report 4-12(7) and would like to report progress with one motion being adopted. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of committee of the whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 457

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The seconder is Mr. Koe. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 457

An Hon. Member

Question.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 457

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, item 22, orders of the day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 457

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, there will be a meeting of the Caucus with the Russian delegation at 2:30 pm this afternoon. There are meetings Monday morning at 8:30 am of the Standing Committee on Legislation and at 10:30 am of the Ordinary Members' Caucus.

Orders of the day for Monday, March 6, 1995:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 18, Northwest Territories Energy Corporation Limited

Loan Guarantee Act

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96

- Committee Report 2-12(7), Report on the Legislative

Action Paper on the Office of Ombudsman for the

Northwest Territories

- Committee Report 3-12(7), Report on the Review of the

Legislative Action Paper Proposing New Heritage

Legislation for the Northwest Territories

- Committee Report 4-12(7), Report on the Review of the

1995-96 Main Estimates

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

- Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Elections Act

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 457

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Monday, March 6, 1995, at 1:30 pm.

---ADJOURNMENT