Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, first of all, I want to let the Minister know that I recognize that he can't make everybody happy and I'm not saying that he should. I guess what I'm basically saying is that his department, first of all, completed a review -- I still haven't found out the cost of that review -- last year with 33 recommendations on how to address fire suppression, and he's indicated that the average per year to fight fires is $13 million. However, our budget book reveals that last year we spent $35 million, the year before we spend $24 million, so we're way up and over the average. Alarms should be ringing and saying what are we doing, what's causing the costs?
He also indicated that when he wrote to the Members sometime in late October or November, he said he was going to take the time to talk to communities. So he was doing another review because of the cost being so high. I think there were some Members who just about wanted an inquiry as to why the cost of fighting fires had escalated to $35 million. Instead, what he said is we would look at doing this review, we would go talk to communities. He's now stating that talking to communities and taking recommendations from communities is all done except in Fort Smith.
He also mentioned that there was some concern with holding a public meeting and he mentioned that a leader was concerned with holding a public meeting. Now, what leader in Fort Smith is concerned about holding a public meeting is beyond me to try to figure out. So, I'd like to ask the Minister what community organization doesn't want to hold a public meeting? Because the cost of fighting fires has really concerned many of my constituents. They're saying that spending at the level that the government is spending, there's no need for it. What I'm mentioning to him is he did one review, now he's done another and if the costs continue at that rate, as the government, we're going to be broke and we're going to have no more trees to cause any forest fires at the rate they're going. What's he doing to try to avoid it?
The only other concern that I have is with regard to fire suppression and the rate that we're spending has to be addressed immediately. It has to be addressed before we go into the next fire season because of the fact that we've got an extremely dry winter, particularly around my area.
Mr. Chairman, with regard to the study now, I did want to make a comment with regard to addressing aircraft maintenance while fighting fires. The Minister's same department with the same review took into account this whole portion of how to address fighting fires and one of the recommendations, when you look in this particular review, indicates that when you look at the executive summary, it states -- for all types of aircraft -- maintenance that should be used during fire suppression, with respect to initial fire attack.
One particular area, when you look at fighting fires, indicates that you should attack fire successfully within the first 24 hours. I think sometimes some of the problems are that when they try to address this within 24 hours, there are so many levels and chains of command to go through within the department before a decision can be made on how to fight a fire and what fire should be fought. I don't know who determines particularly what areas, whether you're looking at a migrating area, examples of where fires should be fought, areas where caribou migrate or other types of areas. But it seems that there are so many chains of command in the department that I know, particularly in Fort Smith as an example, the band has a contract on how to fight fire before they can get approval. Sometimes they'll send their guys out, put the fire out before they can get a decision made saying to go fight that fire. That's what's causing a lot of these fires to really get big in the territories.
When you look at the methods to fight fires successfully, I think the decision-making process has to be tightened up and brought to the community level, and allow the fire bosses to determine the priorities of fire attacks.
As I was saying, Mr. Chairman, when you look through these recommendations on how to address firefighting and how to address the aircraft portion of it, it basically states in one of the recommendations that you require two DC-6 aircraft, prime machines with back-up being based in the north and with maintenance and overhaul being carried out in the north. If you look at this study and this review, the advantages of a DC-4 in comparison to a DC-6, it states that when you replace a DC-6 with two DC-4s, you have an advantage of increasing benefits to northern business, which we know is good for the north. When you look at attempting to fight fires you have many disadvantages. You are basically taking into account varying cost ratios, functional capacities. Two DC-4s would cost almost twice as much as a DC-6 to lay a given length of line. So I'm somewhat concerned that this upcoming year to lower the standards to DC-4s may also address a further concern. They had a hard time fighting fires last year, you can imagine how they will address it this year. Possibly the whole country can burn up.
When you look at the disadvantages compared to two advantages of replacing, Mr. Chairman, you have something like eight to 10 disadvantages with using a DC-4. So I certainly hope, for the Minister's sake, that they can address these firefighting methods within their average cost which they said is $13 million.
Another area I wanted to speak on with regards to Renewable Resources, I'm somewhat concerned as a Member that this department doesn't do that much with respect to addressing the environment. There are no initiatives, I believe, in the department with respect to any type of recycling methods. There are some, I believe, through the Liquor Board or in that particular area. There is some type of rebate given for liquor bottles, but there is nothing with respect to overall recycling or anything like that from Renewable Resources.
I just spoke to an elder recently who told me over the winter months he had been taking old pop cans from Fort Smith to Fort McMurray for sale, which had netted him a profit of $3,000. I think he mentioned to me he had 70,000 cans he brought south. But there are none of those types of systems set up in the north, and as a result, there are some people who care and are going to look at the environment and try to recycle where they can. But there are some people who don't care, and a lot of the environment is getting tampered with and nothing seems to be addressed with regard to programs. I think the Minister should seriously look at a good reuse/recycle type of concept for the Northwest Territories.
Mr. Chairman, two other areas. One with regard to my constituency is the bison ranch. I know the department has been caretaking that particular ranch and it's been costing them a phenomenal amount of money. I saw in the supp where they came in and asked for $200,000 to operate the ranch, if I recall correctly. It has been brought to the attention of this department year after year since that ranch has been there that the ranch is located on the wrong side of the river. It's located in a place where you have to bring the feed by chopper if you don't bring enough in by the winter road. You have it quartered off to the point where in the spring you're up to your knees in mud and water because of the low water level in that particular area. It's costly because of where it's located. I think if it was located on the other side of the river it probably wouldn't be as costly.
That's probably one of the good reasons why the Minister wants to export these live wood bison because of the amount they would bring in at an auction. I know they would bring in anywhere up to $6,000 per bison at an auction. And if you send out five, you're looking at $30,000 to offset the costs. I think what many of my constituents are concerned with is when you start putting prices like that on live renewable resources, they start getting concerned because they don't feel that many of our renewable resources in the north you can basically put a price on. That's what the seniors have basically said.
I'm really happy to hear the Minister say he would hold a public meeting in the community on this particular bison ranch. I believe there's a desire by the native groups, particular the band who want to take over that bison ranch. They feel the cost of operating is extremely high. They feel the location is the wrong place. There's no doubt that maintaining and servicing the animals under the present arrangement with respect to feeding, with respect to animals being repeatedly flooded during spring and early summer, is costing this government a lot of money, a lot more than they feel they would be able to manage it for.
I'm sure when they have this public meeting, they will hear not only from the people with regard to their concerns of exporting live wood bison, but with regard to the operations and maintenance and the location of that particular bison ranch. I certainly hope he takes those requests seriously, and looks at trying to find ways to address this bison ranch.
Mr. Chairman, my last comments with regard to Renewable Resources. Fort Smith renewable resources has an administration area where people are charged not on a consistent basis, not on a fair basis, but basically on...I would say they apply the policy where they want to. They apply the regulations when they want and on whomever they want. There is a really bad attitude. It has been brought to the deputy minister's attention with regard to the superintendent, with regard to one particular wildlife officer there, that the native people don't appreciate their services and it just seems that nothing can get done with them.
For example, the incident of the chief park warden who was cutting wood on the wrong side of the river. That river is a big, wide river where I'm sure you can tell the difference from east and west. But when he was found cutting wood on the wrong side, all they did was give him a warning ticket.
If you went in the park and the chief park warden saw you cutting wood on the wrong side of where your park permit stipulates -- and you're not even allowed to cut wood in the park, but if you even took wood -- let me assure you, he would be the one to charge you. Renewable Resources just lets that go under the carpet. I think a lot of local people, particularly native people, are very upset with that. They are applying rules to whomever they want, whenever they want. I really believe the department has to get out of that attitude complacently with regard to addressing renewable resources.
There are a few good people, there is no doubt, in Renewable Resources but I'm sure this department, next to DPW, creates the most problems in Fort Smith. Renewable Resources has a tendency to have personnel who get more comfortable and complacent and, as a result, the new ones who want to start new initiatives have a difficult time implementing them. As I said, there are a few good people who mean well and do mean to protect renewable resources.
This particular department, Mr. Chairman, was supposed to set up a wildlife committee to oversee all of the hunting and trapping activities and all the funding for trappers. They were supposed to do that, I think, two years ago and, as of this date, there is still no wildlife committee. Again, I blame the superintendent and his staff for not taking the initiative to get it done. They are so busy politicking at the Renewable Resources office that they are forgetting their mandate. This type of stuff with this department has to stop.
Mr. Chairman, I would certainly appreciate hearing some comments from the Minister with regard to when he will address such things as the setting up of this wildlife committee, the issue of the bison ranch and charging people when they violate regulations. Let me tell you, Mr. Chairman, Renewable Resources is not -- I guess I can say -- a highly-respected department in the community of Fort Smith because of the way they are dealing with the people.
They consult with people whenever it is convenient for them, and whenever it's inconvenient they say things like the leaders don't want a public meeting. I really can't understand that. Those are my general comments on this department. Thank you.