Question.

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 18 has had second reading and, accordingly, the bill stands referred to a committee.

Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96; Committee Report 2-12(7), Report on the Legislative Action Paper on the Office of Ombudsman for the Northwest Territories; Committee Report 3-12(7), Report on the Review of the Legislative Action Paper Proposing New Heritage Legislation for the Northwest Territories; and, Committee Report 4-12(7), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Main Estimates, with Mr. Ningark in the chair.

Thank you. The committee will now come to order. When we concluded yesterday, we were dealing with the Department of Safety and Public Services and Bill 1. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Koe.

I believe the wish of the committee is to continue with the review of Safety and Public Services. If we conclude that, we can move on to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment.

Do we have the concurrence of the committee that we will deal with two matters after the break? Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Safety And Public Services

Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

Thank you. The committee will now resume. Before we get into general comments, I would like to ask the honourable Minister if he wishes to bring in a witness or witnesses. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I could have the indulgence and support of my colleagues of bringing in the witnesses, I would be pleased to.

Do we have the agreement of the committee Members that the honourable Minister shall bring in the witnesses? Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Please bring in the witnesses.

Thank you. For the record, Mr. Minister, would you introduce your witnesses to the committee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my right is Mr. John Quirke, the deputy minister; on my left is Mr. Henry Dragon, who is the director of finance.

Thank you very much. We are reviewing Safety and Public Services main estimates for 1995-96. We are going through the activity summary. At this point in time, I would like to open the floor to general comments from the Members. Are we ready to go line by line? Mr. Whitford.

General Comments

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Mr. Whitford, you have always tried to uphold the 10-minute limitation. When I'm sitting here, I just like to remind you of it. General comments. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't want to go over old ground, but I just want to say briefly that I think it's important that we acknowledge that more attention is now going to be paid to mine inspection and mine safety. I'd like to commend the department for somehow having turned a subject of great controversy and great staff upheaval, not many months ago, into a function which seems to have won the respect of the industry and labour, by and large, and a function which seems to be operating without controversy lately. I think that deserves to be noted. It's a very difficult area. There'll never be enough resources, but I think there have been some significant improvements.

I also note that attention is being paid to the construction field, where there have been a lot of accidents, and I congratulate the Minister and the department for getting more resources, hopefully to prevent accidents from here on in. I also want to note that we're now learning that the major legislative reform in the Mining Safety Act is now going to be turned into regulations, with implementation in the coming year; the major work that has been done with the Liquor Act will also proceed in the coming year. I think these are both very controversial areas and my assessment is the department has managed to carry out public consultations and produce results even in an area where there is bound to be strong opinions and opposition to any change. This is all commendable.

In the north it often seems that one of the issues that people are concerned about is competition, and where there's no competition if there's anything that can be done to regulate companies that may be charging excessive prices or fees. I would like to raise that as an issue.

I would also like to note that I think the same is going to be true of the whole area of the rental officer and landlord/tenant relations. I guess it's no coincidence that I'm bringing that up today because we're in the process of examining rent changes including significant increases as well as some decreases by what may be the largest landlord in the Northwest Territories, an organization called the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. I believe Members were somewhat shocked to discover that this government's own legislation -- and I don't believe this particular Minister is responsible for this legislation -- exempts public housing tenants from the ordinary rules about rent increases. I won't go into detail about my concerns about how these rent increases have been handled, but the facts have come out today and yesterday that sizeable rent increases and rent changes are about to fall on the heads of some 5,000; I don't know if it's as many as 5,000, but thousands of public housing tenants. The Minister is saying we didn't have to but we gave them a month's notice, but then when one looks closer one finds that the month's notice was actually just a notice of the maximum ceiling being changed. Up to 40 or 50 per cent of tenants in a particular community in public housing may still today not know precisely how their rent will change even though the rent increases may take place April 1st.

Mr. Chairman, the Minister may wonder why I'm raising this. I was told by staff in the Iqaluit Housing Authority that everything has been worked out and it's all according to the law. The rental officer for the Northwest Territories, who I think is within this department, had reviewed with the Housing Corporation their plans to give notice to their tenants -- if you can call it notice -- and that everything was according to Hoyle, and the rental officer had provided advice that it was being done properly. I'm curious as to whether the rental officer, in addition to regulating disputes between landlords and tenants, provides advice to employers and landlords about the proper way to implement rent increases and, particularly, whether the rental officer has been solicited to give advice to the Housing Corporation which seems to have exempted itself successfully from the application of at least some sections of the Residential Tenancies Act. I'm a bit surprised, if it's correct, that the rental officer has been involved in giving advice in an area which seems of some concern to this House and the manner in which it's being executed.

In closing, Mr. Chairman, I want to congratulate the department for the good work they've done in mine safety, in the new Mine Safety Act, in construction, in looking at the construction workplace and in embarking on an ambitious reform of the Liquor Act, but I want to say that they're going to be hard pressed to deal with consumer issues. I've cited a couple that are of immediate concern but I think there will be many others so I would be interested in getting any reactions that the Minister has when we get to the appropriate section on just how well equipped they are to deal with what I suspect may be quite a flood of consumer issues from an increasingly vigilant, if not angry, public out there dealing with the financial pressures that we're all facing these days. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. I haven't heard any direct question to the Minister. I believe that was just a comment. The floor is still open for general comments. Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This department has a lot of responsibilities and this has been mentioned by my colleagues. People don't normally notice up front and centre until there's a need and usually there's some kind of accident or incident that brings out the inspectors, the firefighters and people who are related to the activities and the acts that are under the responsibility of this department. In many cases these people are volunteers and I'm glad to see there is a proposal to review the Fire Prevention Act. I'll be looking forward to that review. I understand that there's more money to assist in the training of firefighters in the communities. They provide a valuable service and protect a lot of lives and property.

As was mentioned, the Mine Safety Act came into effect. The Minister undertook to point the Members to it and I see that one of the definite objectives is to complete the implementation of this act. We haven't heard anything negative since the act was passed so I have to assume that everything is proceeding fairly well.

Another major piece of legislation that has been looked at is the Labour Standards Act. I see that the Labour Standards Board is reviewing this. It's something that I haven't heard too much about other than what I've read in this document, and it's very skimpy information so I will also be looking forward to seeing what kind of information comes out. There are many new companies, especially in the mining business, that are in the north and many that we don't know about that come in and leave. The labour standards and payment of employees and payments of contractors and subcontractors are very important to our economy, and the registration of these businesses. All these fall under this department; the licensing of businesses and the standards that they have to follow. So it would be interesting to see what is being proposed under this new act.

I also note that the Public Utilities Board is funded under this department. Everybody in the Northwest Territories is impacted one way or another by decisions made by the board affecting utilities. We're all aware of the proposals from the Power Corporation for rate increases. So it's interesting to see that the board is under the responsibility of this department. I not it says it's an independent board, but still this Minister and government funds it, so I assume it has some political clout over what goes on.

The one item I raised some questions about in the budget was the liquor licensing. Again, there's a proposal. The Standing Committee on Legislation has been looking at the legislative action paper on new liquor laws. That's a major development and one that I'm sure is going to take a while to become law and get implemented, but it's much needed. The Liquor Commission, through the Liquor Licensing Board, has authority to control licences and the management of licensed premises. It's very controversial because it has a major impact, and most of it negative, on our population in the Northwest Territories.

I disagree with my colleague on the negative impacts of pricing. I believe that the higher the prices, the less consumption. That may reduce our cost for everything else we pay for because of the impacts of liquor. All our health costs, social costs, police costs, corrections costs, all those are there and increasing because of the impact of liquor and, to some extent, drugs. So it's something that I believe you keep raising and people who can afford it will use it. But you can regulate those other things, too, through the stores. They do it everywhere else.

The other thing I find interesting under consumer affairs is that this department is responsible for the implementation of the Aboriginal Custom Adoption Recognition Act. If I hadn't looked at page 07-5, I would never have known. A week or so ago, I asked a question on the implementation of this act, and it's interesting to note that it's under this department. In future, I'll know who to ask.

Those are just some general comments. As Mr. Whitford and Mr. Patterson mentioned, everything that's a responsibility of this department impact every resident. The big one, as Mr. Patterson mentioned, and controversial one has been, through the Residential Tenancies Act, the privatization of all the government homes. Now, the changes in the social housing structure is something that is front and centre and impact just about everybody in the communities. Soon the liquor laws...We dealt with mine safety and, as I mentioned, the Labour Board and labour standards are going to be reviewed. So these are positive things, and I hope the impacts and changes are reflected positively in any proposed changes. That's all I wanted to say, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Koe. General comments. Do we agree we go into detail?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Line By Line

Directorate

On page 07-8, directorate, total operations and maintenance, $947,000.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Consumer And Corporate Affairs