This is page numbers 489 - 520 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was rent.

Topics

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We will move on to 07-17, detail of work performed on behalf of third parties. Total department, $60,000.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair John Ningark

Now we go back to the program summary, page 07-7. Safety and public services, total O and M, $7.241 million. Mr. Whitford.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since this is the conclusion of the department, I wanted to ask one question. I waited until this was concluded. It deals with the reorganization of the department. In the Strength at Two Levels report, the Beatty report, as it is commonly called, there were suggestions regarding the reorganization of Safety of Public Services which included amalgamation with other departments. Over the past three years, there have been numerous rumours regarding a possible reorganization of departments; however, nothing has been formally announced.

I would like to ask the Minister if, indeed, his department is going ahead and reorganizing. Is there a date as to when this is going to take place? There are indications that there will be reorganization, but nobody seems to know when and here we are in the twilight years of this government. The Beatty report came out four years ago.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Mr. Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Structural, management and departmental change is an ongoing process. Sometimes we have to make decisions that have to respond to not only the reallocation of resources or priorities of this Assembly, but also the priorities of Cabinet. We've made an effort to respond seriously to the issue of safety. I think that's been our priority for the last several years. It's our belief, based on the fiscal situation and the financial problems that may arise, that we may have to reorganize ourselves to do the job better without reducing services or programs.

I can tell you, and I'll be very honest, that we are reviewing this issue. We haven't come to final conclusions about what changes may be. But, they won't be at the expense of safety or, for that matter, the delivery of services to workers. I want to say that there is still a major component that hasn't been dealt with that will eventually have to be -- not necessarily by this government, but probably the next government -- and that is the issue of labour. Labour issues and relations and the conduct of how we do business generally, in terms of our labour legislation -- all components -- have to be dealt with; not simply the Labour Standards Board and labour legislation.

It's a significant issue. The honourable Member asked about the conditions of the mining industry. The simple fact is -- and this is very important for people to understand -- most governments establish labour legislation to protect unorganized labour. That is their responsibility. Our labour legislation is outdated and I think that, at some time, we have to confront that matter. That is the way we are reviewing the issue.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Whitford.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the Members who made general comments had high praise for the department and how its effects are felt by every segment of the population in some form, from custom adoption to death certificates and everything in between. It's quite an important department and it is of concern to Members like myself, when we hear of reorganizational plans. If it is questionable to me, it certainly is more questionable to employees.

Like any team -- and you've got a good team, Mr. Minister, because where you sit, I once sat and I know -- if they're kept in suspense and they don't know what's happening, it is pretty difficult. They are sitting there waiting for the shoe to fall and that is disconcerting. Morale is something that's really important, I feel, to a department to keep people working as a team in good, healthy spirits. People want to get the job done but there is a fear, looking at the federal cuts of 45,000 and Beatty has been cutting and slashing since 1991. That's why I asked the question, so the employees, myself and my colleagues could find out what is going to happen.

If there is, then it should be up front. You should say, this is what is going to happen and here's why we're doing it. You've got a small organization and they do a lot of work. I think it's too small, in some cases, rather than too large. I want to point out to the Minister that it is of concern to Members like Mr. Lewis and myself, and to other Members here, I'm sure. I just wanted to bring this up and ask if, indeed, this is going to take place and when there will be announcements and things like that.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To use the famous words of Mr. Whitford: "to assuage the fears of those who are in this Assembly," the fact is, we always go through a process of management review, of whether or not we are functionally doing the job properly or we have the right people in the right places. Just a simple little organizational change.

The question of labour services or worker services and safety. We have some functions that should be in the worker services that are presently in the safety component. That's the kind of stuff when we look at these issues to decide whether or not we're functionally doing the right job. In the end, I can say the decision has not been completed, but we need to do those things. We're doing more harm to the success of our organization if we don't continue to do that kind of work.

So I agree with the honourable Member. It's not our intention to create anxiety. Certainly it's our intention to be constructive about any management arrangements that are proposed by my deputy minister, because my view is I try to stay out of the daily management of my department as much as possible. I do want to deal with the whole issue of policy. I allow my department to function and the managers to do their work because I don't believe I should be stepping on their toes and telling them what they should or shouldn't be doing if they're doing their job the way you have said they have been doing it. I think that is gaining great respect in the communities in the Northwest Territories where the services are provided. So I take note of your concern and will not try to cause any more anxiety, but management reviews have that tendency, irrespective of whether or not you lay a person off. Reviews have that tendency of making those changes.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Program summary, total O and M, $7.241 million. Agreed? Mr. Koe.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Fred Koe Inuvik

In terms of total PYs, I know it's not a big department but there are 79 PYs, an increase of two. What's the ratio of aboriginal people in this department?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

In the department, there are 92 positions, of which 20 are aboriginal, 12 are indigenous non-aboriginal and 60 are non-aboriginal.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Thank you. Program summary, we agree with $7.241 million total O and M. Agreed?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Do we agree on the left-hand side?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Does the committee agree that consideration of Safety and Public Services main estimates is concluded?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank the honourable Minister and the witnesses for appearing before the committee.

On the agreement of the committee, we shall go into the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. I would like to recognize Mr. Antoine before we proceed. Mr. Antoine.

Provision Of Funding To Social Envelope Committee

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Earlier this session, we deferred the four departments that belonged to the Envelope Committee. Based on a budget supplement that was just tabled today, there was about $3.2 million that was supposed to be allocated. Last week, we passed a motion telling the government to give earnest consideration to finding this $3.2 million from the budget reserve supplement.

Before we look at a member of this envelope committee, which is Education, Culture and Employment, I would like to ask the Minister of Finance if the government was able to give earnest consideration to the motion that we passed last week. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Minister.

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John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the government has indeed given earnest consideration and has accepted the recommendation from the Standing Committee on Finance. The money will be reallocated from supp reserves to the wellness fund. That is why I tabled the budget supplementary today. The documents will be changed in the books during the break, and there will be adjustments made to the bill at the end, as we're passing the bill, to adjust the different departments, Mr. Chairman. So, the money is there.

---Applause