Item 2, Ministers' statements.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday afternoon, the honourable Member for Baffin Central tabled a personal note that I sent to her. I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to the Member for any unparliamentary language the note may have contained or for any offence which may have been taken to its contents. Thank you.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over the past few days, there have been a number of concerns raised by MLAs about the implementation of the rent scale. I would like to make a statement today about the rent scale implementation and to assure Members that we are hearing their concerns, and acting on them as we become aware of them.

The implementation of the new rent scale is a very big job. There are approximately 5,600 tenant households in 50 communities across the NWT whose rents have to be assessed. The old rent scale had not been updated since 1983 and needed to be changed. CMHC, our federal funding partner, advised us that change was needed or they were going to cut almost $6 million annually from our funding. The new rent scale received the broadest consultation of any Housing Corporation or government policy. It was reviewed with community groups, housing associations and authorities, mayors, MLAs and was discussed with the Special Committee on Social Housing made up of Members of this Assembly.

Notices of the change to the rent scale have gone out, as required under the Residential Tenancies Act, one month prior to implementation. Members of this Assembly have stated that some constituents are having trouble understanding the notice. There seems to be a difference of opinion on the translation of the document. Where it has been determined that a tenant has not understood the notice because of translation problems, a further one month's notice will be allowed.

---Applause

The tenant will receive counselling in the language they prefer so they fully understand the rent scale changes. We anticipated that all tenants would have to be individually counselled. This is why we have put notices in the newspapers, on TV and on the radio. To date, approximately 50 per cent of the 5,600 households have been counselled and this number is increasing rapidly. Staff from the local housing organizations have reported that tenants are coming in for counselling and to have their new rents assessed. Our local housing authority staff have been asked to make a special effort to ensure that Inuktitut speakers fully understand the new rent scale.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last week my colleagues in this House impressed upon me their concern over the scheduled closing dates for the winter roads. I committed to reviewing their concerns with the department and modifying the schedule of dates, if appropriate.

As I advised the Members at that time, the decision to close the roads earlier than normal was mainly a financial one. That hasn't changed, so any modification to the schedule must minimize the expenditure of funds. With this understanding, I am prepared in several locations to provide a short extension to the season.

---Applause

On the winter road to Rae Lakes and Lac La Martre, the department will remove its heavy equipment but leave the road open to travel for an additional 10 days, to March 25th, unless the weather forces an earlier closure. This will allow an additional window for moving in materials for a number of Economic Development projects that are planned for this year.

---Applause

On the roads to Aklavik and Tuktoyaktuk, the department will remove its heavy equipment but leave the road open to travel for an additional three days, to April 24th, weather permitting. This will allow intercommunity travel for the purpose of attending community carnivals scheduled for that weekend.

On the roads linking Norman Wells, Fort Good Hope and Fort Franklin, the department will remove its heavy equipment but leave the road open to travel for an additional 10 days, to March 25th, unless the weather forces an earlier closure. This will allow an additional period for intercommunity travel.

Spring road conditions in the southern Mackenzie Valley are more difficult than on other sections of the system. There is more risk of environmental damage at stream crossings and the effort required to maintain and then close the road is greater. The clean-up will require stable road conditions to complete and must therefore be carried out before the road begins to deteriorate. I am therefore unable to make any changes to the closing date for the section of road between Wrigley and Fort Norman.

The access roads to Jean Marie River, Nahanni Butte and Trout Lake already enjoy some of the longest operating seasons on the winter road season. With this year's early opening, Jean Marie River's season has only been reduced by a couple of days and Nahanni Butte's season is a week and a half longer than normal. Nevertheless, I am prepared to extend the season by 10 days, to March 25th. Again, heavy equipment will be removed, but the road left open for travel.

I hope that these changes, while not perfect, will help to alleviate some of the concerns that the Members have raised.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to make a statement about a flat fish with funny eyes called a turbot, or Greenland halibut. This fish is very important to Canada these days because there are no cod left but turbot still exits in some abundance in deep, cold Canadian waters. This is a fish that has been especially significant for the people and fishery of Pangnirtung in recent years.

Mr. Speaker, these days, the Honourable Brian Tobin, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans for Canada is making big waves in the international community, fighting foreign fishermen who are invading our waters to take Canadian turbot. Mr. Tobin is getting tough with these foreign fishermen and yesterday they were driven off by his threats that they would be boarded and seized by Canadian naval vessels if they try to catch our turbot.

Today, I would like Mr. Tobin to understand how my Inuit constituents and other Inuit who want to fish for turbot in the Baffin see the turbot fishery and see his heroic fight against the aggressors from away. Last year, eight Inuit HTAs and Inuit companies from the Baffin region applied for new licences to catch turbot in their coastal Arctic waters, relying on the clear Inuit preference to adjacent fishery resources spelled out in the Inuit land claims agreement. They, too, were competing with an invasion, however, but an invasion of a different sort: applications for turbot licences in Arctic waters from within Canada. What did Mr. Tobin do to protect the Inuit applicants from an invasion from southern Canadian fishermen? Not one of the new Inuit licence applications was approved.

Mr. Speaker, when Inuit from Baffin Island asked for protection from an invasion of southern Canadian license applications to fish turbot in their waters, they got no protection. The southern Canadian applicants received preference to come up and fish in our waters. Most were from the Minister's own home region of Newfoundland and Labrador. Of the licences given out for fishing 5,500 tonnes of turbot in Arctic waters last year, existing Inuit licence holders from Baffin and northern Quebec got 1,250 tonnes. The remainder of 4,250 tonnes went to southern Canadian invaders.

I'll ask for a bit more time, Mr. Speaker.

The Member for Iqaluit is requesting unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Complete your statement, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and Members. When these valuable licences were given to southern Canadian fishermen to catch turbot in our Arctic waters, my Inuit constituents felt the same way as I believe Mr. Tobin and many Canadians feel now about foreign fishermen exploiting Canadian resources off the Grand Banks.

I want to say I applaud Mr. Tobin for his aggressive stance with the foreign invaders, but this coming year let him apply that same zeal to respect the Inuit land claim and allow Inuit applicants from communities with high unemployment to be protected from having outside companies move in to harvest our turbot in our Arctic waters.

---Applause

Thank you. I fervently hope that in future, Mr. Tobin will be as aggressive in fighting for the rights of indigenous Inuit licence applicants to fish turbot in Arctic waters as he has been aggressive in fighting foreign turbot fishermen invading Canadian waters. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements.

Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Marie-Jewell made these remarks while dealing with the Nursing Profession Act, and I quote, "There have been comments that the timing is right for this bill because it's International Women's Day. I found those comments to be a little bit chauvinistic."

I admit, Mr. Speaker, I was one of those Members guilty of pushing to deal with this bill yesterday. Although I have not been accused of being chauvinistic, I admit to making the comment that we should accomplish something concrete and practical as a Legislature on International Women's Day. My comment may have sounded chauvinistic. However, there are 28 women in a program right now who depend on the passage of the Nursing Profession Act. Ten of those women are living in my constituency, Mr. Speaker. They wrote me a letter urging me to push for quick passage of this bill and they are: Sharon Nahanni, Olga Mercredi, Debra Wilson, Christine Brewster, Jason Nault, Della Napayok-Ell, Lucy Tulugarjuk, Margaret Baker, Jennifer Menzies and Catherine Lauzon.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, every day we hear criticism of our parliamentary system of government; it's no good, it can't do anything. I think yesterday will show that we are a very responsive Legislature. If it simply needs to be done, we can get it done in a speedy and responsible manner. I don't believe it matters to our students what process or what arguments are ever used to achieve the passage of a bill that people would like to have. And if it takes chauvinism to make 28 women happy, it's a very small price to pay.

The 28 students can now relax and give their full attention to their studies and not have to worry any more about what we do in this House...

Hear, hear.

...except to give third reading and to get assent to that bill. Thank you.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm pleased to stand today to recognize two young people from the Keewatin who are serving as Pages at the Legislative Assembly this week. I would like to introduce to all the Members, Ms. Inukshuk Aksalnik from Rankin Inlet, Jennifer Sheetoga from Whale Cove. They both attend the Maani Ulujuk Secondary School in Rankin where Inukshuk is enrolled in grade 9 and Jennifer is in grade 10.

These young women were selected by the staff and the student council of the Maani Ulujuk School, based on a number of factors including their academic achievement, attendance at school, attitude, willingness and their interest in learning more about how our Legislative Assembly functions -- although sometimes I'm concerned about that.

---Laughter

Like the parents of these young women, Martha Aksalnik of Rankin Inlet, who has been a friend of mine for 25 years, and Philip and Eva Sheetoga of Whale Cove, I am very proud that they've been selected to serve in the Legislative Assembly as Pages. I would ask that you join with me in welcoming these two young students to the House. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was to make a statement regarding some of our business from yesterday concerning the rent scales. I, myself, didn't comment too much yesterday on the debate because I was aware that the Minister has been working on this for some time and it has been under discussion by many different committees.

People in the High Arctic have a concern about this. While they are aware of the processes of government, they have this particular concern. At the time housing was provided for them by the federal government they were never told that their situation may begin to change in the future. This has caused a lot of pain for the constituents up to this date.

I want to express my gratitude to the Minster for providing an extra month before the implementation of the rent scales, to enable accurate information for tenants whose rent might change. In his responses to questions yesterday, I was not very happy with some of the answers. It seems that the Inuit would have to go to the local housing associations to fill out application forms to implement the new rent scales. My main concern is for the elderly who are only able to read in Inuktitut according to what they understand.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and colleagues. My concern is mainly about the elderly people who can only read in Inuktitut. People who are older had the understanding that they didn't need to go to the office to give information. There are a number of communities that have received this information, as far as we understand. I checked into this this morning, and some of the communities have already received this information. Although they've made a slight change to the translation in Pond Inlet, the other communities seem to have the same information that was first sent out.

I am able to read the Inuktitut language and I can speak and understand English. The Minister talked about the English version being the same as the Inuktitut version. As far as my reading went in Inuktitut, it is not the same at all. In fact, the meaning is reversed. This was a major concern to me for the communities, once it becomes implemented, for the unilingual people. I know that a lot of people will have to start moving into their own private units based upon their income. However, there are still discussions where many people are still unable to afford their own units. People who have a higher income level can't be told that this is an option that you should try out. I think that is going to continue to be a problem today because there isn't enough information as to what is available out there.

This will continue to be a concern for my community. Obviously, they won't be able to return to their old ways of living. We know that the implementation will take place and that the translation will be changed. The correct information will be passed out and, as was mentioned by the Minister, they will be working closely with the local housing organizations. I am grateful for that. The rent scale is something that I can't really fight against, but the Inuktitut translation should have been readily understood and not distributed because it confuses people in the Baffin, Keewatin and Kitikmeot. For those reasons, I would like to ask the Minister to issue an apology. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Dent.

Hear, hear.

Do they have polar bears in Yellowknife?

Hear, hear.

The Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, education and training are a very important part of our everyday life, not only in our jurisdiction but throughout the world. Mr. Speaker, there are employees of government and other agencies who work in different fields. Some are carpenters, plumbers, mechanics and equipment operators who want to further their education or training. The government has been able to accommodate these people up to this point in time and we appreciate that very much, Mr. Speaker.

But there are barriers for people who are unilingual in this particular jurisdiction. This morning I received a call from one of my communities; the mayor called me and told me that there is a gentleman who lives in Gjoa Haven who is an airport maintainer and wants to be able to take part in the airport maintenance training program in Baker Lake. He is very ambitious. He wants to take it because he has been working for the airport for many years. He is very confident and is, in fact, one of the better maintainers I have seen in that area. But, he's unable to go to Baker Lake because he's unilingual. He was told that the program is available and he requested an interpreter. But according to him and the information of the hamlet of Gjoa Haven, an interpreter is not going to be provided.

In this day and age, I would believe that government would provide trained interpreting and translating services, especially in the eastern Arctic where the majority of people who are potentially going to be taking training programs are unilingual

and only speak Inuktitut. At the appropriate time, I will be asking the Minister questions about this. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Mr. Pudluk, point of order.

Point Of Order

Mr. Speaker, I know we all have been elected by the people and have to go by the rules. Ordinary Members' statements should only be two minutes and some of the Members have no time limits. I think we should follow the rule. Thank you.

Just to clarify, I was watching the time and it was one minute, something. Members are allowed two and a half minutes and I understood the Clerk Assistant to say that he did not go beyond his two and a half minutes. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Today, I would like thank the Minister of Transportation and his department for allowing a short extension to the winter road openings. On behalf of the people in the small communities who depend on winter roads to get in and out and to buy supplies and so forth, I would like to say that the few extra days are certainly going to help. The community of Nahanni Butte, Mr. Speaker, is presently doing an experimental logging project on the Liard Highway, and the men from the communities use the community of Nahanni Butte as a transport base of every morning and evening. The logging project is until the end of March so the extension of the opening of the road to the end of March is certainly going to help them.

As for Jean Marie and Nahanni Butte, I know Jean Marie is trying to bring a store into their community and, with the extended time period, they might be able to get the work done and bring in their supplies before the roads close. The few days of extension are certainly going to help all the communities.

To close, the community of Fort Simpson is having their Beavertail Jamboree March 17th, 18th and 19th and the open road will allow people from surrounding communities to come into Fort Simpson to celebrate. With that, I would like to thank the Minister and his department. Mahsi.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The statement that the Housing Minister gave was good. If there were errors in Inuktitut and there wasn't going to be anything done about it...I'm sure the majority of the people didn't understand clearly and that it was going to take effect on April 1st. But, I seem to understand that he delayed it another month. If they already received the copy of the translation,

there will have to be clarifications made to let them know that if they don't go to the housing association office, their rent would be marked up to the maximum. This will have to be corrected because we all know the English and Inuktitut copies were different. I'm sure that they will have time to make the correction if they're given another month. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this afternoon I wish to provide comments on a matter that has certainly caused considerable concern to myself and to my constituents in Fort Smith. Mr. Speaker, honourable Members of this House frequently speak about community concerns over the illegal use of alcohol and drugs in their constituency.

Mr. Speaker, I share those concerns and for some time have become increasingly troubled by the illegal activity, such as the increasing availability of illegal drugs. Mr. Speaker, on December 12, 1994, I met with two RCMP officials in my constituency office in Fort Smith for a general discussion of these concerns and the RCMP plans for addressing the increasing potential of illegal drug use. At the time, it was confirmed that from August 1993, there was a 58 per cent drop in the number of drug charges laid in Fort Smith in comparison to the previous years when the predecessor, Sergeant Gary Barnes, was the detachment commanding officer in Fort Smith. I would like at this time to commend Sergeant Gary Barnes for all his hard work and effort in addressing illegal drugs. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, he was so good he got promoted to Yellowknife.

However, Mr. Speaker, our meeting with the RCMP was very positive and several constructive solutions for proactive interventions were identified. Mr. Speaker, I was totally astounded when some four weeks later, a local news reporter indicated that he had been informed that the purpose of my meeting had been to provide the RCMP with a list of drug users and drug dealers in Fort Smith. I was even more astounded to learn that the source of this information had been the regional superintendent of Social Services.

Mr. Speaker, I want to say, in no uncertain terms, that this information was totally false. I have not compiled, disclosed or provided the RCMP with such a list. I seek unanimous consent to continue with my statement.

The Member for Thebacha is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and honourable Members. Mr. Speaker, when I confronted the regional superintendent of Social Services personally on January 9th, he indicated that this information -- this rumour -- had been the result of a conversation that took place between himself and the sergeant of the Fort Smith RCMP detachment in the local curling rink club bar. He indicated that the sergeant had suggested that there had been some pretty prominent names included in the alleged list. This, in turn, was information that the regional superintendent had chosen to share with others in my community.

Mr. Speaker, the clear connotation was that I had manufactured a list of alleged drug dealers in order to discredit certain prominent people in Fort Smith for political purposes. Again, I unequivocally deny this untrue rumour.

Indeed, I wish to inform the House that the "G" division of the RCMP has launched and has now completed a full investigation of this matter under section 45-4 of the RCMP Act. The investigation revealed that the RCMP officer in question had informed the regional superintendent that there was no list. Later today, I will be tabling the report of this investigation.

Mr. Speaker, I am concerned about this incident on a number of levels. First, I believe that the irresponsible action of taking, fabricating and circulating this vicious rumour had the potential to place my family at some risk of harm from lawbreakers wishing to respond to this account through intimidation. In fact, during the early week of January, when this rumour was passed, my vehicle was vandalized several times and was damaged as a result of a hit and run, causing about $2,000 damage.

At the same time, Mr. Speaker, I am dismayed and disappointed that this sort of tactic once again appeared with a northern political context. The regional superintendent of Social Services has indicated to a number of Fort Smith residents that he is interested in becoming a candidate for election in Thebacha during this fall's territorial election. I wish him luck and I advised him that everyone knew that. I also indicated to him that that is democracy.

Some of my constituents have suggested to me that this incident may have been motivated by political reasons. Mr. Speaker, I believe that voters all across Canada are simply tired of election tactics that rely on character assassination. They are tired of innuendo and untruth. This sort of conduct only serves to damage public confidence in our electoral process.

My main reason, Mr. Speaker, for raising this affair today is because I am concerned -- I am deeply concerned -- about what it suggests about public service administration within our government. Perhaps, especially, in the Department of Social Services. We all know that many Members, including the Minister herself, have risen in this House to comment on problems surrounding the illegal use of drugs and alcohol in the Northwest Territories. There is a move afoot to enhance law enforcement capabilities in this area, when you take into consideration the complete reform of our liquor legislation.

Who could blame individuals who might have drug evidence from experiencing second thoughts about coming forward, when this action is likely to make them the subject of rumours and victimization. Mr. Speaker, I find this entire situation absolutely unacceptable and, unfortunately, since the Minister of Social Services is not in the House, I will give her this as notice that I intend to pursue this issue upon her return to the House.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank Inspector Roberts and Sergeant Douthwright for agreeing to meet with me on this important issue in the first place. I also appreciate the prompt action taken by the RCMP "G" division to act on my report of this incident. I sincerely regret any hardship or inconvenience that may have been caused for the Sergeant of the RCMP division of Fort Smith by this investigation, which became necessary as a result of conduct displayed by the GNWT officials. For complete clarification, I would like to emphasize that the investigation found Sergeant Douthwright's actions were proper and justified and that he did not violate RCMP policy.

Mr. Speaker, I also want to say that I hope the shameful actions of a single Social Services official will not discourage concerned members of my community and from all northern communities, from working together with law enforcement agencies; working together with parents and concerned citizens; with elected officials of this House; as well as locally to make a positive impact on the drug and alcohol problems that have been plaguing the Northwest Territories for too long. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Item 3, Members' statements. Ms. Mike.

Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I would like to apologize for being absent when Mr. Ng made his apology about his note to me. I was at a luncheon meeting that turned out to be longer than I had expected.

However, the context of the note he sent yesterday is confirmation of what I talked about in my Member's statement yesterday. I believe Mr. Ng would never send a note to a man with the word that he used in his note to me. I sincerely hope Mr. Ng learns from this lesson. I hope the second time around, he gets what my point was yesterday in my Member's statement. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Mike. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd.

Mr. Speaker, I have three returns. I have a reply to a question that was asked by Mr. Koe on March 2, 1995 regarding successful bidder on tourism industry review proposal.

Mr. Koe asked about the contractor retained to do the review of tourism industry associations. Five submissions were received as a result of a "call for proposals" issued by the department. The proposals were reviewed by a panel of three, one of whom was from the Department of Public Works and Services, and assigned points based on:

- personnel expertise;

- methodology;

- past relevant experience;

- project schedule;

- fees and expenses as compared to estimate (includes BIP);

- past corporate performance;

- northern content (BIP); and,

- overall quality of proposal.

Proposals were ranked one to five, based on points assigned.

Mike Freeland and Associates was ranked first and was awarded the contract. In order to carry out this contract, this company will hire local residents to do interviews in the communities. In addition to Mr. Freeland, Mr. Mike Bell from Yellowknife, Mr. Doug Crapo from Calgary and Mr. Frantz Knudsen from Copenhagen will be doing some of the work. Mr. Crapo has worked on tourism strategic planning projects in Alberta and the Northwest Territories. Mr. Knudsen will be spending one day on the project, and has undertaken extensive tourism planning work in Greenland and is able to bring an alternate northern approach to the work.

The three top rated proponents all included some southern content. Mr. Freeland's proposal had the highest level of northern content.

I have another question asked by Mr. Koe on March 1st with respect to WCB rates for construction companies.

Employers are classified on the basis of the industry in which they operate, rather than the occupations of their employees. The administrative staff in every company supporting the main industry are charged the same rate as all other employees.

It is worth noting, however, that the construction rate decreased from $10.25 per $100 of assessable payroll in 1994, to $9.25 per $100 in 1995.

Mr. Speaker, if I may, I have another question from Mr. Koe with respect to WCB rates for taxi drivers and staff.

Again, employers are classified on the basis of the industry in which they operate, rather than the occupations of their employees. Dispatchers support the taxi industry and are charged the same rate as taxi drivers.

Prior to 1995, taxi drivers were charged a flat rate of $365 per car. Claims costs arising from the taxi industry were charged to subclass 53, and the assessment is ground transportation. The board of directors asked that a review be undertaken to determine if taxi operations were paying their own way.

From 1990 to 1994, the revenue collected from the taxi industry was $69,184 compared to $435,964 spent on claims. It was apparent that taxi operations played a major role in the rate of subclass 53 rising from $3.25 per $100 in 1990, to $6.25 per $100 in 1994. The board of directors made the decision to charge taxis and dispatchers the same rate as all other employers in subclass 53. This decision resulted in a rate increase of $1.75 per $100 assessable payroll for all employers in subclass 53. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Patterson on February 28, 1995: the impact of federal staff cuts on the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, the federal budget on February 27, 1995 announced significant reductions to the size of the federal public service over the next three years. In response to Members' enquiries regarding the effects of these cuts on federal employment in the Northwest Territories, I will be tabling later today a summary of the personnel reductions which have been confirmed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Continue, Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on February 23rd of the Premier. It concerns the percentage of $1 million power cost carried by other communities.

Mr. Speaker, the low water rider to collect $1 million from communities outside of the Yellowknife Snare system is not being billed out on a percentage basis.

Rather, it is assessed as a flat rate charge of 0.6 cents per kilowatt hour to all customers outside of the system.

Customers within the Yellowknife system will be paying an additional $3.3 million in low-water rider costs. Depending on their classification, customers will pay between 1.2 and 2.5 cents extra per kilowatt hour.

Under the Public Utilities Board decision 13-94, collection will continue until November 30, 1995, or until the required amounts are collected, whichever is earlier.

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Antoine.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize people from Fort Simpson; Mr. Ernest Cazon and Mrs. Rita Cazon. Mr. Ernest Cazon is the subchief of the Liidli Koe First Nations in Fort Simpson. Mahsi.

---Applause

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct my question to the honourable Minister of Transportation. Mr. Speaker, to follow up on my Member's statement that I made earlier, I know the honourable Minister is a proponent of making life easier for all people of the NWT, as he has spoken to me about on many occasions both in private and sometimes in public. I also know that sometimes the honourable Ministers do not always know what is going on under their noses. Sometimes they are kept in the dark by their sidekicks or subordinates, Mr. Speaker.

According to my Member's statement, I know there is going to be a maintenance training program for airport maintainers in Baker Lake, which is to be on March 29, 1995. I would like to ask the honourable Minister if he is prepared to have an interpreter for a gentleman from Gjoa Haven who wants to take part in that training program in Baker Lake. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Transportation, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If the gentleman from Gjoa Haven is attending the training centre in Baker Lake and requires translation services because he's unilingual, then I'm sure arrangements will be made. If they're not made, I'll ensure they are made. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the honourable Minister for that positive response to my question. Will the Minister direct his staff to communicate with the hamlet council of Gjoa Haven to find out if the gentleman is attending, as I was told this morning? Thank you.

Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I would be only too happy to do that. I would like to point out that the reason the Cabinet decided to put the training centre in Baker Lake was to do exactly that: to accommodate both bilingual and unilingual northerners in this important program. So I will communicate to the department post-haste the concerns that they take whatever actions are necessary to accommodate this gentleman from Gjoa Haven. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when I walk to work every day I pass by the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre. I was involved with this project at it's very beginning. I spent many hours at the Prince of Wales Heritage Centre archives. I've learned this week that the librarian position is being eliminated. I would like to ask the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment how this will affect the service to myself and many other researchers who come from other parts of the country who have enjoyed this very good service in the past.

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There will be no reduction in services. I believe the deputy minster should be here as part of the budget review, because he can answer some of those more technical questions. There will be no reduction in the services, but what will happen is there will be a reassignment of responsibilities to other staff in the museum.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

I will leave my detailed questions for later. There are still some policy issues with the Minister, Mr. Speaker. Recently, Mr. William Mills, who is the librarian of the Scott Polar Research Institute in Cambridge, England -- this is the library of close to 6,000 northern books, many of them very rare and very valuable. Although he has visited libraries with large collections of northern books in Ottawa, Winnipeg and Calgary, he found ours in Yellowknife to be the best in this country. That is the reputation that our northern library has. Since the library will no longer have a librarian, I would like to ask the Minister if there is no one who is trained to look after it, what are the future plans for this world-class library?

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The fact is that the honourable Member is misleading the House by suggesting that we are not going to take care of the books. The fact is that the deputy minister and the staff have made the suggestion that there is a different and more appropriate way of providing those services to the public. And if I have offended him by stating he was misleading the House, I apologize to the Member.

Mr. Lewis, supplementary.

I will let you and my colleagues judge whether I am misleading the House, Mr. Speaker. Since there are no plans to add to the collection by purchasing new books or by acquiring donations which have to be very carefully looked at, catalogued and so on -- for example, the forthcoming very important book on the Dogrib culture -- this collection will in fact remain static. Is it therefore the policy of the government that they want this library to die?

Mr. Nerysoo.

No, Mr. Speaker, that is not our intention, to make or create a situation where the library dies. There are a number of factors that the honourable Member is not taking into consideration: one, there are cultural institutes that are being created in other jurisdictions -- whether or not it is the Inuit Cultural Institute, the Dene Cultural Institute, the Educational and Social Cultural Institute created by the Gwich'in claim, the Sahtu agreement -- so in every situation it is different. The problem with having to respond to an issue of

this particular type is that we have to recognize that we are part of those agreements and we have to work through these issues with them. As such, I believe we are making the best resolution to this particular matter -- from an organizational point of view -- and I have to rest my final decisions on the judgement of the deputy minister and his staff in my department.

Final supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I realize that, as a government, we are going to have to make some big decisions before 1999 about division of assets and so on. I would like to ask the Minister, in light of the comment that he just made about the various cultural institutes around the territories, whether in his vision he has plans to decentralize various bits of this collection so that whatever appropriate bits could belong to this particular group of people will be allocated to different regions in the territories. Does he have a vision?

Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to say to the honourable Member, I think the vision comes from the fact that we are reviewing our heritage legislation right now, to give us some indication of the direction that we should be going in this area. Right now -- as the honourable Member knows and he has been well aware of the information -- our legislation does not allow us to set any direction.

The honourable Member will also be aware that part of the direction we wish to go is toward the whole issue of ensuring that there is some mechanism for charitable donations. Now, in light of that, I think we also have to be aware that, from an archival perspective, we have a lot of archival work to do and information that has not been catalogued to date. We are still at a point where we have not put together an overall position in that area. So I think it is because of a combination of those issues, along with the work that still needs to be done and advice based on the financial resources that we have, that we have had to reallocate and reassign the responsibility accordingly.

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister of the Workers' Compensation Board for the information on the rates charged to construction and taxi businesses. Mr. Speaker, in raising the issue initially, my point was that the administrative staff who work for construction companies, and dispatchers who work for taxi companies are being charged the same rates as their respective industry and the Minister confirmed that.

I respectively submit that the risks associated with sitting at office desks or at a dispatch desk are relatively lower than driving a taxi or hammering nails. I would like to ask the Minister again whether he has asked the Workers' Compensation Board to investigate whether there could be different rates charged for administrative staff in the construction and taxi industries.

Minister of Transportation, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I did speak to the chairman of the Workers' Compensation Board and asked him if he would advance the issue that Mr. Koe raised with the board of directors and see if they would consider an arrangement that would place that administrative function in a separate category. I have done that, but I have no quantitative response as to what decision the board of directors will take. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. When the committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions reviewed the Workers' Compensation Board, this issue was raised, where possible different rates are charged for different types of work done within a specific company. Again, I would like to ask the Minister would he take it upon himself to ask the board, which he is responsible for, to investigate this issue and come back to this House with a response.

Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. While I am legislatively responsible for the WCB, it is an independent group of directors that make decisions based upon the kinds of actuary reports they get. Because after all, it isn't public funds that they use, it is private sector funds that they use; I think it is important to say that. I have asked the chairman of the Workers' Compensation Board if he will ask the board of directors if they will consider reviewing the concern that has been raised by Mr. Koe and, in fact, it has been raised by others over the years. When I receive a response, I will report to the House and Mr. Koe on that response. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Whitford.

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, the Financial Management Board has given the Minister of Health, Madam Premier, approval to go ahead with the purchase of dialysis equipment and set the program up at Stanton Hospital. It will start this year, I believe around September, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Housing. Mr. Speaker, I would like to know whether or not there is still availability of a housing program called "rural and remote." Thank you.

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Not that I know of. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There used to be a program called "rural and remote" and quite a few of my constituents took advantage of the program at the time. The program provided for a 25-year mortgage, and 25 per cent of your income went towards the mortgage. I believe this program has been discontinued and that was my purpose of asking. I would like to know, since there have apparently been a few of them, whether or not there has been any indication from CMHC to the Minister of Housing about addressing the

outstanding rural and remote units for individuals who have taken advantage of this program in the past. Thank you.

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When I was in Fort Smith some time ago, some of the Member's constituents raised the issue of the rural and remote program to me, as well as some constituents of Mr. Nerysoo's in Fort McPherson, and people in Inuvik and Iqaluit. We have tried to work with CMHC to see if they would write off the program and flip it into a program similar to what is now offered by the Housing Corporation. To date, CMHC has refused to approve a write-off, and it would cost us approximately $3 million if we were to pay out CMHC on behalf of those clients.

So, I've asked the Housing Corporation to look into it further, especially for people who are getting on in age. One person in Fort McPherson -- and I forget her name -- lives in a house and continues to pay 25 per cent with no cost-of-living adjustment. She has to pay her power and electricity as well. Others must be in the same boat. They are paying a higher cost than their neighbours and we're trying to get something drafted to write off the amounts for rural and remote that people have been paying faithfully over the years. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that reply. Could the Minister advise the House when he anticipates a paper being presented which considers the write-off of the rural and remote program? People are paying exorbitant amounts and some have been unable to pay because of the continual increase of costs. Thank you.

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Housing Corporation has a fairly heavy workload right now, but this has been one of my priorities. Since the honourable Member for Thebacha has brought it up, I will resurrect it and try to get it done as soon as possible. Clients out there are suffering from high mortgage rates, especially clients who are paying them. Some have not paid at all, and they will be addressed differently. There are even some who have leased out their units and we will have to address that as well. But we will try to help those who are attempting to own their own home as best we can. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Finance. In the Minister's budget speech, he mentioned, briefly: "becoming more self-sufficient." This was a very short section, about six lines long. The Minister stated that: "We have to become less dependent on the federal government and we have to raise more of our own revenues. At the moment, we have a limited capacity to do so and we have been living with a financing formula which discourages initiative and self-reliance."

Mr. Speaker, in the matters of raising taxes and arrangements with the federal government, I believe this is called a perversity factor. I would like to ask the Minister if he can explain what the perversity factor is.

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

In 25 words or less.

Mr. Speaker, I hope Ron Irwin doesn't read these debates. I promised him I wouldn't say the "p" word because it gets the federal government excited. Mr. Speaker, when the formula was put together, it was deemed by Canada that we should maintain 85 per cent of the average tax rates across southern Canada, which includes personal income taxes, corporate taxes, tobacco taxes, property taxes, et cetera.

What happens if we fall behind? The federal government says you should have been able to achieve that and they lop that off of our grant. They automatically take it from us. I should explain again, Mr. Speaker, -- Mr. Patterson asked for 25 words or less, but it's difficult to do that -- what happens is if there is a volume increase in taxation in the Northwest Territories -- which means more people are working and paying their incomes taxes -- then for every extra dollar we receive in that particular revenue, the formula takes $1.30 from the formula financing agreement for those revenues inside the formula.

So, putting more people to work in the Northwest Territories actually works against us in that respect. That's it, sort of, Mr. Speaker. It's highly technical and I could send the documentation to Mr. Koe, who I know is an accountant and who could probably wade through the pages. But, that's it, in a nutshell, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.