Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Are these positions that the Minister just outlined all filled?

Yes.

Mr. Chairman, as I indicated earlier, I'm a little confused. The recent government telephone directory lists, as I indicated, only three positions, but the Minister has indicated there is a director and policy planning analyst. Is the Minister indicating that the names and positions listed in the telephone directory are not correct?

Mr. Chairman, under policy and coordination, there are three positions in the directorate, including a policy and planning analyst and a senior financial administrative coordinator. The directorate includes the executive secretary, executive assistant and the special constitutional affairs advisor.

Mr. Chairman, I'll continue on. I will get to the specific task later on. I would like to ask the Minister, why does a department of only 27 staff need three staff in the role of policy and coordination? Surely this could be handled in such a small department by the deputy minister or his executive assistant. Why do you need three people?

Mr. Chairman, I'm not clear what the Member is suggesting. The ministry, itself, is largely policy driven. It is a function that requires a full-time position tasked simply to look at policy and planning, doing required analysis of ongoing activities and following up on work done by the ministry. The director is in charge of general overall coordination within the directorate, specifically in charge of policy and coordination of the work of the ministry. The position of financial administrative coordinator...Again, there is $4 million we deal with. We also do a lot of work with FMBS and other departments. There's work to be done with the federal government, other ministries and communities. These positions are required.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If you look through the government budget as a whole, other departments which have more than 27 PYs don't have more than three people in their policy and coordination section so we're wondering why this particular department, with only one activity and I think four or five tasks, requires three people in their policy and coordination section. Other departments which have hundreds of people in various activities don't require that many people to do their policy and coordination.

We're questioning this because we compared it to various departments in the budget and we note this particular department had three people specifically assigned to policy and coordination. We're questioning why it is required to have these three people specifically assigned to do this work. We felt, for a cost-saving measure, there was a possibility that the deputy minister and his executive assistant could take on this role, rather than having three people in this area. We raised that concern in our internal discussions and are questioning the Minister here today.

Mr. Chairman, as I indicated, in my view and in some of the committee Members' views, we don't think this department requires this many people to do this function. We felt that this function could possibly be taken care of through the DM's office where the DM and his executive assistant could carry out all of these functions. The Minister has indicated that he doesn't think that is warranted and it should be left to the status quo. I think that most of the Members on this committee, when we discussed this issue, felt that was one possibility and could be a cost-saving measure if the role was incorporated into the deputy minister's office. I would like to ask the Minister if that could be a possibility. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I don't know what the Member is saying. Either they are going to make a recommendation or they are just making an observation, based on their own internal discussions. I don't get the point. As far as I'm concerned, the directorate is required and they're working full-time, as is the deputy minister. It is unlike other, very task-oriented, cut-and-dried departments. We work with people and political issues. We work with issues that are not so clear cut; dynamic issues that require, I believe, a massive amount of coordination and attention. That's what the ministry is all about.

It's not one that's prone to just having a number of tasks all piled up and just a few people. We have a number of jobs that are required to be done and all the work we do and that I'm responsible for, as a Minister, is done through the directorate. The directorate keeps me informed, on a daily basis and weekly basis, of all the different things we're involved in. They keep abreast of national issues as they develop. They keep abreast of the issues going on in Ottawa, so this government keeps a progressive profile and perspective on things so we aren't caught looking as if we're sitting on our rear ends.

It is important to have people free to monitor activities across this country. This is what the directorate does. It serves as a secretariat for the Political and Constitutional Development Committee of Cabinet as well. All the things that go on in the Northwest Territories with the aboriginal organizations, the claims, self-government issues and within Ron Irwin's office, those things alone, can keep a few people busy just trying to figure out what is going on. We try to track the policies that the federal government comes out with. We try to anticipate how they are going to form. We try to have input wherever we can with these initiatives and to keep abreast of proposals and other initiatives that the federal government may want to take.

We have ongoing discussions and dialogue with aboriginal organizations on a number of issues. It isn't possible to give a black-and-white definitive measuring stick to the Member and say this is how much work is being done. If the Member has any inkling as to how much work it takes to just keep abreast of claims alone and self-government discussions of national issues that affect this government, he might begin to get some idea and develop an appreciation of the need for the person years that are assigned to it.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If the Minister would have appeared before the standing committee, as scheduled, then we wouldn't be asking these questions. Unfortunately, he wasn't available. I don't appreciate the Minister asking what is your point. If he was there, then all of these questions would have been asked at the committee level. Unfortunately, he wasn't available. So now we are discussing his budget to get all this information from him, so we can make certain recommendations to the ministry. That is why I am asking all of these questions. We observed that while he was absent from our committee meeting.

Mr. Chairman, those are the reasons we are asking these questions. We didn't have the opportunity to ask our committee meeting. It is only fair to say that we observed these things. That is why we are asking questions now. I don't appreciate the Minister asking what our point is; if you are going to make your recommendation, make it. We are going to wait until we receive that information from the Minister, before we make any type of recommendations. We didn't have the opportunity during the January review when we were discussing this budget. Mahsi.

Mr. Chairman, the status quo that the Member suggests I am defending is, in fact, what I thought this Legislative Assembly and this Cabinet has always endorsed, which is to deal with all the issues in a comprehensive manner, that takes into full account all the elements that relate to it. So when we talk about Justice and aboriginal languages, it is always suggested that we take a comprehensive full-scope view of issues before we start acting. It was that message that was so resoundingly endorsed by this new Cabinet and Legislature in 1991 that led to the formation of this ministry.

In the standing committee, the Members suggest there are some functions that should be looked at, and that we should look at expanding the Ottawa office. I accepted those good suggestions but the Members and I have to substantiate why. We can't just put one or more people in there, we have to be able to substantiate to each other what it is we're trying to do. There is no difficulty in looking at how the Ottawa office is now and the tasks they are to deliver to see what kinds of changes we should make.

What we don't want to do is simply make changes without solid reasons for it. The Premier has the power to give, take away and divide up portfolios as she sees fit, but even the Premier has to be able to rationalize why she would do that. If she decides, after a full commitment to a comprehensive approach, to separate the intergovernmental function, then she has to be able to articulate why. She articulated clearly why she was wedded to the comprehensive approach in 1991 so if there is reason for change at this time, then it's probably to make sure that she has it if she is going to take up the suggestion by this committee.

There are questions about what other things we do. Well, one of the functions of the Ottawa office, of course, is to keep abreast of issues and developments across this country that would have an effect on this government and the people of the Northwest Territories. The developments of the Parti Quebecois and the separatist movement is a case in point. I think even with one person monitoring in Ottawa, it still requires those of us up here to do our part in trying to develop our own perspective as things develop almost on a daily basis.

We know that issues such as the fishing dispute with the European community has some relevance to issues up here and when it first came out, it wasn't that clear. The more we monitored it and kept abreast of daily developments, it became clear that we have some interest. For instance, we recently injected the fur issue into that debate and brought it to the attention to the federal Ministers and our Members of Parliament.

It is by monitoring and keeping in touch with government officials, that brings the value of these positions to my attention, at least. Some things we get advice on. We get impressions of whether the referendum in Quebec is going to be delayed, what the rift between Parizeau and Bouchard is, and what other dynamics there are in the business community of Quebec. These are all things we have ongoing discussions about and, as I said, it is not black and white. It is important that we keep interested and keep monitoring it. Thank you.