Yes, it would be good if the Minister could provide me with the background information on this one here, if he could, in a hard copy. I would appreciate that.

The concern I have is with what was explained to me. If that's the cost, I don't know how it would be for the future. I would like to ask the Minister if his department is looking at other sources of heat for the other buildings like the Bompas Hall, the Thomas Simpson school and the Deh Cho hall. Are they considering getting away from the central heating system and putting in individual heating systems? Has the department considered that and, if there are going to be any changes made, what are the plans for that?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Regarding the first issue about providing you with a briefing on the background, I will write you a letter right away on that issue.

Also, we are reviewing the cost of a steam heat system compared to stand-alone systems. Once something has evolved from that review, I will be quite happy to share that with the Member immediately as well, and I will make sure that the department does that. Thank you.

Getting into the definitive objectives, Mr. Chairman, there is one area that looks interesting. One of the activities is to carry out a two-year of a three-year program exchange of technical information to promote construction, consulting, manufacturing and business opportunities in Yakutia, Sakha. What is that? Can the Minister explain that to me? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have an agreement with the government of the Yakutia, Sakha republic for an exchange of technical information on building codes and building technology, areas in which we are perceived by circumpolar countries to be one of the most advanced in the world. We have an agreement with them, and the federal government funds the majority, $1.3 million for three years, to carry out this agreement. That's how that village was built over there. As well, there is now an airport and air terminal building being built.

It's a good agreement, and it works well. It creates jobs for northerners to go over there.

From time to time, we do get requests for Ministers or elected officials to travel, but I've been there already. It's really nice and the people are really nice. Next time they request that, I will make sure to invite other Members to take my place. I know Mr. Whitford has volunteered. Mr. Antoine, you may like to see that place, how that program is carried out, and how those people live. They are aboriginal people as well, and they are not much different from us, except they are living in the 1940s and we are living in the 1990s. Thank you.

I would like to ask the Minister about this. Are there northern companies and businesses employed? Do they have contracts over there at the present time?

Yes, and I believe I made that information available to Members of this House. There is a whole list of northerners and northern companies that worked over there on that village. Right now, Ferguson Simek Clark, Clark Bowler, Robinson and companies like that are there starting to build the air terminal, or they are pretty close to building it.

The village is finished, it's being used. We have a couple of people from Public Works and Services over there on the exchange program who are teaching them how to maintain the village to Canadian standards. The people over there seem very impressed with the buildings that we have provided through the private sector.

There are good opportunities over there, and all we have to do is continue to work with them to develop those opportunities for our private sector in the Northwest Territories.

I believe that there were some people over there from Mr. Antoine's riding as well, but I forget how many and who.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the Minister knows I have really only one concern about his department, and I know we are very close to adjourning so I will try to keep this brief. It is about the transfer of Transport Canada's tank farm and POL facilities in Iqaluit, and, incidentally, in Resolute Bay, although I wouldn't dare speak about Resolute Bay, which is in conjunction with the takeover of Arctic "A" airports.

Mr. Chairman, just some brief comments. I basically want to say, first of all, that the present system which tenders the whole resupply to a private company is producing, in my view and in the view of my constituents, pretty good value for service.

For example, in Iqaluit, the price of home heating oil is 38.69 cents. I don't know if you can easily compare Rankin Inlet with Iqaluit. I know that in Rankin there is a big freight premium. I think it's about 12.5 cents a litre, compared to four or five cents that we pay in Iqaluit from Montreal. Setting aside the freight costs, the selling price of heating oil in Rankin Inlet is 61 cents. In Dorset, the selling price is 57 cents. So, at 38 cents in Iqaluit, we are getting a pretty good deal on home heating oil. We are also getting a pretty good deal on gasoline, I believe, compared to costs in other communities.

Mr. Chairman, one of the two issues that I think the department is considering is marine transportation. I understand consideration is being given to combining the three eastern Arctic resupplies; the ones that the government is doing and the ones being done now privately in Iqaluit and Resolute Bay. I would just like to suggest that I believe it might be unfair to Iqaluit consumers if the result of combining the resupplies is that their base rate goes up. Now, if by adding to the volumes of the total resupply, Iqaluit and Resolute Bay can bring savings to the system and to other communities, I'm happy to see that. But I wouldn't want to see it done with the result of the base rate for Iqaluit going up.

In other words, if you're going to achieve economies of scale on freight by adding Iqaluit volumes, the people of Iqaluit should still enjoy the same base rate that they're paying now, after transfer. Pass the savings on to other communities but don't bring the Iqaluit freight price up in the process. I don't think that would be fair.

Secondly, on price structure, after the GNWT takes over Transport Canada's facilities, I would like to see the same approach taken that is being taken now by Public Works Canada in pricing and contracting policies. This would mean that there would be a call for a tender for product resupply for Iqaluit and, I would suggest, Resolute Bay and maybe other eastern Arctic communities. The tender would cover local delivery, plant operation and maintenance and it could allow a capital recovery surcharge, which I think is working very well in Iqaluit where, for a small per-litre cost, the capital infrastructure is being maintained, environmental reserves are being established and it is not a draw on the GNWT's capital requirements. We know the facilities in both Resolute and Iqaluit are going to last a long time, they won't need to be replaced. I think the present system could continue to work.

I would like to note -- and I'm not carrying the flag for Shell Canada; Shell just happens to be the current contractor and it could be Esso or any other company during the next round -- but I was impressed that Shell, all told, is handling about 120 million litres in the Arctic -- they supply northern Quebec, Iqaluit and Resolute Bay -- with three staff.

Now I hesitate to ask the Minister how many staff would be required to handle the 200 or so million litres that POL administers in the Arctic. I think it's a lot more. I guess if you look at Sir Roger Douglas and the trends in shrinking government wherever possible, if the private sector is doing it, and can do it as lean as mean as big companies like Shell and Esso do, that rely on their international network to support the drop in the bucket that Arctic fuel delivery would be, then why don't we continue to take advantage of that corporate capacity and avoid adding expensive PYs to our government?

This is my point of view, Mr. Chairman. I know the Minister is considering these options right now. I would just like to get my point of view on the record. I would also like to say that it's very important to my constituents that before final decisions are made, there be full consultation with customers and consumers affected. It's not just the people who buy gas and heating oil in Iqaluit; it's also the airlines that use the airport and even a small change in their prices affects everything, as the Minister knows. I would also like to see consultation with the other major users of the service.

I hope that whatever is done, we will continue to promote Iqaluit as a place where international airlines can buy fuel. We are competing with Gander and places in the States. We have a chance to attract more business in this area and, whatever is done with this take-over, that opportunity should be exploited because it will be to the benefit of not just my constituency but also to the whole eastern Arctic.

In a nutshell, not wanting to prolong this, those are my views. I hope they'll be taken into account by the Minister and the department. I want to say again, please consult before this major decision is finally made because my constituents have strong views on it. I don't want to take a lot of time in committee of the whole because it's a local issue for Iqaluit and Resolute, but it is a major issue because of the importance of fuel and its relation to airline travel. Those are my points, I will say no more, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to assure the Member that I have listened, with great interest and I do hear what he's saying. After the rent scale, my middle name is "Consult" so I will be consulting with all interested parties and listening.

---Laughter

Because, any changes we make affect people and we're elected to serve people so we should consult with them. His views are on the record and I will consider them when we adopt a new policy. He'll get another kick at it, anyway. So, I thank him for his views.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Line By Line

Directorate

Agreed.

---Agreed

Project Management

Agreed.

---Agreed

Accommodation Services

Agreed.

---Agreed

Buildings And Works