Okay, that concludes the detail. Back to the program summary then on 2-24. Total O and M, $41.197 million.
Debates of April 12th, 1995
Topics
Committee Motion 40-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 13, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1001
The Chair Brian Lewis
Committee Motion 40-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 13, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1001
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Committee Motion 40-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 13, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1001
The Chair Brian Lewis
Thank you. Now I think we have to return to the summary which is on 02-6. Executive departmental summary, total O and M, $56.251 million.
Committee Motion 40-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 13, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1001
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Committee Motion 40-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 13, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1001
The Chair Brian Lewis
Thank you very much. Do Members agree that we have concluded the consideration of the Department of the Executive?
Committee Motion 40-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 13, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1001
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Committee Motion 40-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 13, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1001

The Chair Tony Whitford
Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Pollard, and thank you very much, Mr. Voytilla.
Department Of Finance
We are now on the item dealing with the Department of Finance, located in section four, page three for the overviews in your blue books. Does the committee agree, first of all?
Committee Motion 40-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 13, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1001
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Committee Motion 40-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 13, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1001

The Chair Tony Whitford
Thank you. Is the Minister of Finance prepared to make the opening comments on his department?
Minister's Introductory Remarks
Committee Motion 40-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 13, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1001
John Pollard Hay River
Mr. Chairman, there is a net reduction of over $300,000 in the 1995-96 expenditure budget of the Department of Finance. This reduction is primarily due to lower interest costs on Northwest Territories Power Corporation promissory notes as a result of the annual redemption of 10 per cent of these notes.
As well, the contract negotiated with the government's banker will reduce financial costs in the 1995-96 main estimates by over $200,000.
On the revenue side, Mr. Chairman, the payroll tax which was implemented on July 1, 1993, is estimated to generate new revenue to this government of $12.4 million in 1995-96, an increase of almost $700,000 from the 1994-95 estimates.
Mr. Chairman, the department has devoted a significant portion of its time in developing studies and conducting discussions on formula financing with the federal government. These studies and discussions have addressed such issues as "perversity,"
the gross domestic product ceiling, the measurement of tax effort and the treatment of investment income.
Mr. Chairman, for fiscal year 1995-96, the grant from Canada will be frozen at the level of grant entitlement for 1994-95. The grant for 1995-96 is therefore estimated to be $876 million. Because the formula financing agreement will be suspended for 1995-96, total revenues will become more uncertain since the failsafe provisions of the agreement will not apply.
Mr. Chairman, the taxation revenues for the Department of Finance, shown on page 04-15 of the main estimates document, include the revenues from the two percentage point increase in the corporate income tax rate introduced in 1994. Corporate income tax revenue for 1995-96 is projected to be $30.3 million, an increase of $7 million from the 1994-95 revised forecast.
Tobacco tax revenues for 1995-96 will increase by more than 30 per cent or $4 million, over the 1994-95 main estimates, as a result of the government's decision to maintain tobacco prices when the federal government reduced its excise tax on cigarettes by $5 per carton.
Total taxation revenues are expected to be $140.2 million in 1995-96, up $6.8 million from the 1994-95 main estimates.
The increase from $11.7 million to $12.4 million in payroll tax collections between 1994-95 and 1995-96 is based on projected increases in economic activity and wage rates in the Northwest Territories.
The interest earned on the government's temporary cash balances is forecast to decrease from $1.5 million to less than $150,000. This decrease results from four years of deficits since 1991-92 and the resulting elimination of the government's accumulated surplus.
Associated with the decrease in cash balances is the cost of borrowing to meet the government's obligations. Interest costs were not included in the 1994-95 expenditure estimates and are not provided for in the main estimates for 1995-96. Members were asked in this session to approve a supplementary appropriation of $1.2 million for 1994-95 interest costs. A supplementary estimate for 1995-96 interest costs will be presented in 1995-96 when interest costs can be more accurately determined.
In total, revenues budgeted in the Department of Finance, excluding the grant from Canada, are expected to increase by $3.5 million over the 1994-95 main estimates.
As noted earlier, Mr. Chairman, the expenditure budget of the department is reduced by $558,000 of interest on redeemed NWTPC notes and by over $200,000 of bank service charges. These reductions are partially offset by an expenditure increase of $150,000 for a tax options study and $340,000 for increased insurance premiums.
In total, Mr. Chairman, the expenditure budget of the Department of Finance will decrease by $313,000 from the 1994-95 main estimates. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 40-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 13, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1002

The Chair Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Is the chairman of the Standing Committee on Finance prepared to make his opening comments? Mr. Antoine.
Standing Committee On Finance Comments
Statistics
Committee Motion 40-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 13, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1002
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. An important factor in some financial arrangements with the federal government are territorial population statistics. There are currently two different versions of these statistics. The federal government relies on the figures from the 1991 Statistics Canada census. However, these figures are substantially lower than those prepared by the bureau of statistics. The bureau of statistics uses a combination of information from deaths and births to health care card applications and returns to assess the population.
Committee Motion 40-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 13, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1002
An Hon. Member
Hear! Hear!
Recommendation 14
The committee recommends that the Department of Finance actively encourage all northerners, through an awareness campaign, to participate in the 1996 census.
Banking Services
For many years, Members of the Legislative Assembly have been raising concerns regarding the lack of banking services in most communities. The committee noted during the review that some banks are starting to move into communities in the north. For example, it is expected that there will soon be banking facilities in Cambridge Bay.
The committee is aware of and supports the contractual arrangement for banking services which the government has negotiated. Without undermining this arrangement, the committee suggests that the government encourage the development and enhancement of banking services in smaller communities.
Property Taxation
The issue of property taxation was discussed with this department and with the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs in the review of the 1994-95 main estimates. At that time, the committee recommended that the taxation policy in general taxation areas be reviewed and a plan developed to resolve all outstanding issues in this area, with particular reference to treaty concerns. The committee was informed during this review that a study is under way and the final report is expected in September 1995. This issue should be highlighted as a priority for the next government in the transition plan.
Committee Motion 41-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 14, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1002
An Hon. Member
Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee recommends the Department of Finance actively encourage all northerners, through an awareness campaign, to participate in the 1996 census.
Committee Motion 41-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 14, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1002

The Chair Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Your motion is in order. To the motion. I have been reminded that we don't have a quorum. I shall sound the bells.
Thank you, I recognize a quorum in the House. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.
Committee Motion 41-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 14, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1002
Some Hon. Members
Question.
Committee Motion 41-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 14, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1002

The Chair Tony Whitford
Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.
---Carried
Does that conclude your comments, Mr. Antoine?
Committee Motion 41-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 14, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1002
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
That is the end of the comments from the Standing Committee on Finance.
Committee Motion 41-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 14, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1002
Committee Motion 41-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 14, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1002
John Pollard Hay River
If I might, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 41-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 14, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1002
Committee Motion 41-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 14, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1002
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Committee Motion 41-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 14, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1002

The Chair Tony Whitford
Of course, they agree. Sergeant-at-Arms.
Mr. Minister, would you be so kind as to introduce your witnesses to the committee?
Committee Motion 41-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 14, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1002
John Pollard Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my right is Mr. Eric Nielsen, the deputy minister of Finance; and, on my left is Bill Setchell, the director of finance for the Department of Finance. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 41-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 14, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1002

The Chair Tony Whitford
Thank you. Welcome, gentlemen. I noticed since Mr. Nielsen was here last time, his tan has faded somewhat since he was in Africa. General comments. The chair recognizes the Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.
General Comments