Thank you. The order will be as stated by Mr. Dent, after a short break.
---SHORT RECESS
Bill 32: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act, No. 2
In the Legislative Assembly on June 13th, 1995. See this topic in context.
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The Chair Tony Whitford
The committee will come back to order. The sponsor of the bill is here, Mr. Dent. When we concluded, we were dealing with clause 2 of the bill. Mr. Dent, do you wish to take the witness table?
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Yes, Mr. Chairman, I would like to have legal counsel available.
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The Chair Tony Whitford
Okay, we will see if we can provide that for you. Mr. Dent, you may take the witness table, seat, area, dock, all those other nouns.
Mr. Dent, would you be so kind as to introduce your witness to the committee?
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With me today is Ms. Sheila MacPherson, who is Law Clerk of the Assembly.
Clause By Clause
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The Chair Tony Whitford
Was. Thank you, Mr. Dent. It's good to see you again, Ms. MacPherson. Clause 2. The chair recognizes the Member for Thebacha, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.
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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to follow up on some of the comments from yesterday's discussion, I would like to know whether it's possible for Mr. Dent to clarify and be specific with regard to giving explanations or, possibly, examples with respect to the definition in his bill of "attempted" and the definition of "threatened" in clause 2.(b). Thank you.
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe the Member for Thebacha is asking for a legal definition so I would ask if Ms. MacPherson could answer.
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Bill 32: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act, No. 2
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Macpherson
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With respect to the issue of "attempt," the law focuses on looking at whether there is an action by a person which could reasonably be interpreted as indicating an intention to assault somebody else, an action which an ordinary person might reasonably construe as indicating an intention to carry through with an assault. For example, if a person were to strike at another person but miss them because they lost their footing, that would be an attempted assault because it is reasonable to assume that, but for the fact that they lost their footing, they would have carried out the assault.
Whereas if a person were behind bars, for example, and made a threatening gesture to another person, because they are behind bars, it is not reasonable to assume that they would have the means to carry out their assault so that would not be an assault. There has to be an element of reasonableness. The ordinary person has to reasonably construe that there is an intention to assault and the ability to carry through with that assault, for there to be an attempted assault.
In terms of threats, threats usually involve a situation where there isn't a physical action, but just the use of words threatening violence. Again, the issue is would the reasonable person have construed the words as being threatened. Whether a statement constitutes a threat would depend on what the words were, the context in which the statements were made, and the likely impact of the words on the recipient. Certain words might be more accepted in one context than in another context. So in terms of determining whether a statement is a threatening statement, the court will examine all of those different factors. I hope that assists the committee, Mr. Chairman.
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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha
Further to that, Mr. Chairman, I'm wondering whether or not Mr. Dent has determined if there is any case law which influenced him to use the words "attempt" and "threatened" in his bill?
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in drafting the wording of the bill, I sought legal counsel to ensure that the bill would have some understanding if it were ever taken to court. Therefore, I would like to ask again that legal counsel be permitted to address the specifics of this question.
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Macpherson
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The wording used in the bill is very, very similar to the wording used in the Criminal Code because of the fact that there is a significant body of case law interpreting the wording used: "attempt" or "threatening to use violence." It was felt that that was the best place to draw the wording from. There is a tremendous amount of case law dealing with the area of firearms prohibition and the wording contained in the bill is taken directly from that section. So I can advise the Member that there are many cases and a relatively clear understanding of those words, in terms of words being traditionally considered. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Bill 32: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act, No. 2
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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think it's important to have on record the definition and interpretation of this bill, where it is developed from, with respect to the words "attempted" and "threatened" because they can be misinterpreted in the future in the court process. I think it's very important for the public to understand clearly the meaning of the bill when those words will be interpreted for future reference. With that, I have no further comments. Thank you.
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Fred Koe Inuvik
Thank you. Under clause 2.6.(2), the words "practices of parliament" are used. Can someone explain why that particular phrase is in this particular act? We're dealing with an act relating to the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories. Why would we use the practices of Parliament, and I assume that's the Canadian Parliament?
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Acting Law Clerk Ms. Stewart
The Constitution Act of 1867 provides that Canada shall have a constitution similar in principle to that of the United Kingdom. A constitution similar in principle to that of the United Kingdom is one founded on a parliamentary democracy. Parliament, as part of that parliamentary democracy, has a number of privileges, rights and powers, as well as procedures and other conventions that
govern their proceedings and manner of acting in different circumstances.
The words "practices of Parliament" were intended to capture not only things that were set out in the rules and procedures of the Legislative Assembly, not only things that were included in the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act or conventions of this Legislative Assembly, but also to include all those other privileges of a Parliament in a parliamentary democracy.
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Fred Koe Inuvik
Similarly, the last part of that section reads "or otherwise." What are other examples that fit under this category, or why is that qualification there?
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Acting Law Clerk Ms. Stewart
I would request that we defer that to Mr. Dent. I wasn't involved in the drafting of that particular provision or the drafting, at all, of the bill and I'm not entirely sure what was intended.
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Mr. Chairman, the phrasing of this clause was actually suggested by Mr. Miles Pepper of the GNWT Department of Justice. He is the assistant deputy minister. My understanding of the reasoning for this wording is to ensure that there is no truncation of the rights and powers which are inherent in this Legislature. If we are not careful, we could in fact limit the rights of the Legislature with an act when we codify responses to certain actions. With this wording, we have been assured that we are not in any way infringing on the inherent rights of the Legislature.
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Bill 32: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act, No. 2
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
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The Chair Tony Whitford
Thank you. Does the committee agree that Bill 32 is ready for third reading?
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
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The Chair Tony Whitford
Thank you. Bill 32 is now ready for third reading. Mr. Dent, I would like to thank you for assisting the committee in this effort, and Ms. MacPherson, we look forward to seeing you back.
---Applause
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The Chair Tony Whitford
I would like to thank Ms. Stewart for assisting the committee in its deliberations on Bill 32. Thank you, Ms. Stewart, and we hope to see you again.
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The Chair Charles Dent
The next item on the agenda is Committee Report 11-12(7), Report on the Review of Bill 25 - The Education Act. Is the chair of the Standing Committee on Legislation prepared to make introductory comments?